The Masters Athlete Survival Guide
We explore thriving as an athlete after 40. Each episode, we’ll dive into tips, hacks, and inspiring stories from seasoned athletes and our personal experience. Whether you’re a weekend warrior or a competitive pro, this podcast is your playbook for staying fit, strong, and motivated
The Masters Athlete Survival Guide
Beyond Bro Science: The Truth About Nutrition for Older Athletes with Claire Shorenstein, MS RD CSSD
Claire Shorenstein MS RD CSSD, registered dietitian and board-certified sports dietitian, joins us to share evidence-based nutrition strategies for masters athletes of all types, debunking common myths while offering practical guidance for optimal performance.
• Difference between registered dietitians (RDs) and nutritionists – RDs complete extensive education, unpaid internships, board exams and continuing education
• What "being fueled" actually feels like – energy to complete workouts, proper recovery, stable mood, and good sleep quality
• Caffeine can be beneficial as a performance aid but shouldn't replace proper nutrition
• Under-fueling impacts hormones across all ages and genders, not just women in midlife
• Food journaling without calorie counting helps identify patterns and nutrition gaps
• Most people feel best eating every 3-4 hours with strategic snacks
• Carbohydrates remain essential for performance, particularly for high-intensity efforts
• Experimenting with nutrition changes should be done gradually with attention to how your body responds
• Proper fueling involves getting ahead of hunger, especially during competition days
• Pre-competition nutrition should be planned carefully based on timing and individual tolerance
Check out Claire's podcast, Eat for Endurance, as well as her free resources at eatforendurance.com, including nutrition guides and her affordable membership program.
@masters_athlete_survival_guide on IG
New episodes come out every other Thursday!
Welcome to the Master's Athlete Survival Guide, where we explore the secrets to thriving in sports after 40. I'm John Katalinas and, along with Scott Feig, we'll dive into training tips, nutrition hacks and inspiring stories from seasoned athletes who defy age limits. Whether you're a weekend warrior or a competitive pro, this podcast is your playbook for staying fit, strong and motivated. Let's get started, and we're back. I'm john. I'm still scott. Hi scott, hi john. We should have a guest on today, john.
Speaker 2:I think we should but yeah, it shouldn't be just like you know, our average run-of-the-mill gym bro guest.
Speaker 1:Okay I think we should have someone special on. Don't you something smart?
Speaker 2:somebody knows stuff. Well, it doesn't take much to know more than you and me. I didn't say that, okay. Well, I did okay who do? You think? What do you think we should do?
Speaker 1:well, you know, I was going through the internet, as one does, yes and um, I found this podcast, the eat for endurance podcast, and I like eating, oh, and I like endurance. No, that's not true. No, it's not. But we found cla Shorenstein and she is the host and owner and all-around greatness person around the Eat for Endurance podcast and we have her on as a guest today. Hi Claire, hello, hi Claire, hi Claire.
Speaker 3:Thanks for having me oh thanks for being had.
Speaker 1:Wait what? We have decided that this is a messy-ass Friday. So welcome to it. Claire, could you introduce yourself and who you are and why we hold you in such high regard?
Speaker 3:Well, first of all, I appreciate the lovely introduction that you hold me in such high regard. Yes, my name is Claire Shorenstein. I am a registered dietitian and also a board-certified sports dietitian, so that's that CSSD credential after my name, and I've been practicing for a little over 10 years. I work with athletes of all abilities, all different kinds of sports. One of my specialties is endurance sports, though, because I myself am an endurance athlete. I've been a runner for a very long time. We were just joking about all of our ages. I'm 43. Endurance athlete. I've been a runner for a very long time. We were just joking about all of our ages. I'm 43 years old. I started running when I was 15, when I joined the cross country team and kind of slowly made my way into longer distances, and these days I'm really loving kind of trail and ultra stuff and yeah, so my business is Eat for Endurance. I'm really consistent with my branding.
Speaker 2:I like it Well done.
Speaker 3:Across the board and I have a podcast. I started that a little over five years ago because I was really interested in just sharing how people feel differently and all the different ways they do that and there really is no one right path. There are lots of different ways you can do things and, as I always, you know, some of the favorite things that us dietitians like to say is like it depends right and like talking about personalization nutrition. So, you know, I thought it'd be a fun way to explore, like the nutrition stories of different types of athletes is kind of where I was coming at it from just looking at someone's life from a nutrition lens and kind of exploring their roots and like how they were raised and what their thoughts and beliefs and experiences were with food and then how their kind of athletic career developed and all the different struggles and things that went great and everything. And so it kind of started with elite athletes, mostly professional athletes that I knew or was connected to or kind of just reached out to, and then over time it really evolved to also include recreational athletes and also a lot of interviews like the one you just mentioned before we started recording with my sports dietitian colleagues. So actually that's some of my favorite ones actually, because I am a solo virtual practitioner so I work one-to-one with my clients all over the place, all over the US, and I work by myself and everything's online and it can get very lonely. So it was a really fun way just to kind of connect with people and meet other dieticians and yeah, so it's been a fun adventure doing that and just in terms of what else I do at Eat for Endurance, yeah, so, as I said, I mostly work one-to-one with people. I have a really great membership where, for like practically nothing, people get one or close access to me, not one one access, but in a like a small group setting. That's been a really fun thing and yeah, it's just, uh, I mostly am working with.
Speaker 3:I mean, I sometimes work with elite athletes, but I'd say mostly I work with recreational athletes. They don't necessarily have to be training for something, but really just figuring out how to make you feel your best every day and in your athletic life. Because I see the bulk of the people who come to me they're very busy. They're juggling work, family life, like all the things squeezing in their training, whether it's training for a very specific race, or maybe they're just in the gym or on their Peloton or doing whatever it is that you do, and it's figuring out like how can I fuel myself in a way that feels good and support longevity and overall health and do the things I love for as long as possible? So that's just a little bit about me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome and part of it is I mean again since yeah, that's awesome and part of it is, I mean again, since Scott and I are essentially digital strangers. Scott was the silver medalist in Masters Strongman last year and I compete in Highland Games Grip and I had a couple national championships in weight throw back in the Masters track and field. So you are the other side of the coin, for sure, but what? Why I thought it was deeply interesting to have you on is that we, we strength athletes, tend to focus on technique and gear and all all the things that we think improve us. I bet you a billion dollars, very few of them think of fueling or nutrition well, especially in our levels, john yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And then add in the old person aspect, where we all think that we know better. Um, so so I appreciate you being on here.
Speaker 3:I doodled down on just a couple questions, and the first one and I apologize because this is probably super basic, but I wanted to hear it from you dietitian versus nutritionist yeah, yeah, I know most people don't even know what a dietitian is, which is like it's so funny because so the term registered dietitian it's a protected term, it's kind of like being an md or something like that. Um and but, but I feel like so many people didn't even know what the heck is a dietitian that they now now I can be an RD or an RDN, registered dietitian, nutritionist, like they added the word nutritionist on just to kind of make it more recognizable to the public. Um, it's a little bit of a, I think, pr crisis there, but yeah, basically the difference is, um, anyone can call themselves a nutritionist, like you could be. Like I lost five pounds, I know what I'm talking about. I'm a nutritionist. Now you know. Um, so anyone can call themselves a nutritionist only people who go through a very specific set of schooling.
Speaker 3:Um, you have to complete all these different requirements, like I basically had, cause I'm a career changer. So I went back to school when I was 30, basically had to get a whole second bachelor's degree, in science this time, and then a master's degree in nutrition, and then you do an internship, which is like a billion hours, where you're doing all these specific things in a very. It has to be like a certain program that's accredited for for what we do, and then, after all, that is an unpaid internship, I should add. And then you have to pass the national board exam. After all, that it's an unpaid internship, I should add. And then you have to pass the national board exam, and then every single year you have to do a certain amount, or actually, sorry, every five years you have to do a certain amount of continuing education.
Speaker 3:So, it's very, very intensive. So you're required to have a master's degree in nutrition. You have to do this whole undergrad or post-bac situation where you got all these different, you fulfill all these different requirements. So it's incredibly intensive from an education standpoint and then ongoing work to keep up with the science, because we are an evidence based profession and on top of that there's a code of ethics that we have to stand. You know that we have to follow and make sure we uphold. So it's not one of these things where you know we're like yelling shirtless in a grocery store about how like cereals are bad or whatever the hell they're saying. You know, you know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:People on the internet. You know, like, like we. You know, just like you know with doctors and all these other people like I mean, we really have to uphold a certain set of standards. And it's not just like, hey, you can take a quick online course and be a dietitian. You cannot do that. So you're really looking out for the credential of MSRD. So RD is that registered dietitian? The other thing to keep in mind is that in certain states, it's actually illegal for anyone but a nutrition professional, like a dietitian, to give nutrition advice. Other states like, so like the one, like certain States I can't remember them all off the top of my head. I know Florida is one of them, but like California, where I live, for instance, like anyone can give nutrition advice so you can do whatever the hell you want.
Speaker 3:Um and it's fine. So, so, and and the specific thing is, um, because, like, not everyone is clinically trained. So I was in like a clinical nutrition program and working with chronic disease and all kinds of things like that. But like we do something called what's called medical nutrition therapy, so it's very much evidence based nutrition protocols that are helping with all kinds of different conditions, right, so that's what's illegal in certain states if you're not licensed in that state.
Speaker 3:So much like if you go to a therapist and're trying to see, let's say, like like California is really strict with therapists, you have to be licensed and everything, for instance, so like if I go try to, if I'm in California and I want to work with a therapist who's in Colorado or something they couldn't legally work with me. So yeah, there's stuff like that, you know. But again, like most people don't know about this stuff. And then, on top of everything, to be a CSSD, so that's it's a certified, certified specialist in sports dietetics. So to have that specialist degree on, so, on top of everything else, you have to be a dietitian for at least two years. You have to collect, I think it's 2000 hours of relevant proven experience in the field of sports nutrition.
Speaker 3:Um, and there are a few other things you have to do. You have to pass this like grueling exam every five years, and then you have to recertify, so it's like this whole thing. So, yeah, these aren't just like you know nothing, letters after our name. We really do have to work hard for them.
Speaker 2:You know, and I love that, because one of the things that john and I somehow some way work into every one of our podcasts is you know, get off the couch, you're not eating cheetos anymore. So not a sponsor, not a sponsor. So we've talked for a long time, you know, before, even before the survival guide came to fruition this idea of getting into somebody you know picking their brain a little bit, somebody that has some serious credentials when it comes to this. So what you know more than bro science, I guess is what we're looking for because, you're right, you lose five pounds. I mean, john went through a massive transformation. He was well over 300 pounds and now he walks around at like 240 and he's a you know, he's a very strong guy. So he, he's done that. So, yeah, he can say don't do this, do this.
Speaker 1:Well, his empirical evidence is him yeah, it's an end of one for sure, so yes, what you know.
Speaker 2:One of the big reasons when John said to me I think we have someone that you know might be interested in coming on to the show and talking about what they do and their dietitian, and I'm like, oh, this is phenomenal, yeah, about our sort of line of sports, but also just to let the folks who listen to us know that there's a big difference between nutritionists, dietitians, what it can be, that you're not only you know. Like you said, some of the people you work with they're just, you know, busy lives. They want somebody that can help them understand what's going on with it.
Speaker 2:They're not the elite of the elite, but you work with them too, so I mean talk to us a little bit about you know the lower end in terms of athletic professions that you work with. You know Joe average or Susie average person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I heard you. I heard you on a recent one of your podcasts and I loved the term like back of the pack athletes, like if you're talking about long races and stuff which you tend to do, which is amazing and intimidating at the same time. Um, I like the fact that you spoke to the people in the back, because you don't have to be top five in any race to really care about what you're doing and and, and I love that I love that you recognize them yeah, no, absolutely, and and and, to be clear, the bulk of my um client population, they are amateur athletes.
Speaker 3:I, I, that's my favorite population, it's what I, you know, really resonate with because I too am a you know, I, I have a small business. It's very busy. I have two young kids, I'm trying to train, trying to do all the things. Like I can really relate to the challenges that people have and I, even though I'm a dietitian and I kind of know what to do, like it doesn't mean I always take my own advice.
Speaker 3:So, I mean I catch myself.
Speaker 3:I mean, just like it's been really busy at work lately and you know I will look at my day of eating like, oh shit, like I am literally falling into the exact pattern that I yell at my clients about.
Speaker 3:I mean, I don't yell at them, but you know like I'm giving them a hard time. So I'm like, oh my God, like look how little you've eaten. It's like two o'clock and then you're trying to make up for it later, get more food into your body earlier in the day, you know? So, just to say like we're all, we're all struggling with our own things, right? So, yeah, so most of the time I'm working with people who you know are are doing these things recreationally, as you know, for fun type two fun maybe, but for fun still, and and it and. Just because someone is slower, like objectively slower, it doesn't mean like, as I spoke about in that podcast, it doesn't mean they are not working incredibly hard. It's all about your effort and and your goals are also incredibly important, even though you're not going to be on the podium, you know, even if you're finishing DFL dead fucking last, you know, like, like.
Speaker 2:I love that term. Oh, my God, I'm sorry, I love, love that yeah scott and I both looked at each other.
Speaker 1:You just added that to our glossary.
Speaker 3:We're gonna be using that and everything? Did you know that some races give awards for dead fucking last?
Speaker 1:no, no, john's gonna start racing. I'm thinking about entering the moab 240.
Speaker 3:Then I'm gonna yeah, now to be clear, I do not do races like that I'm actually taking a little break from ultras and like the longest I've ever raced is 50 miles clear. I do not do races like that. I'm actually taking a little break from ultras and like the longest I've ever raced is 50 miles. So I am not doing like super long stuff, at least right now, but, um, but yeah. So I mean just kind of, you know, it doesn't matter how slow you are or you know what distance, like the fact that you're out there and doing things, and even if you're not racing, like it's still important, you still have to fuel the work that you're doing.
Speaker 3:That's often what we're talking about. It's like what are you doing in your life? Like if you're not running marathons or ultra marathons or you know travels, whatever it is, if you're not doing that kind of stuff, but you know you're going on long hikes or you're on, you know the bike is that you're doing, you're in the gym like five days a week. Um, you have to fuel that work, you know. So.
Speaker 3:So, whatever it is you're doing, I see people who maybe they're just like playing pickleball or they're like going on super long walks, they're walking their dog, they're bike commuting to work, and it's like we have to think about all the physical activity that we do in our day, whether it's's intentional or not. I sometimes get people who have very physically demanding day jobs, you know, they're on their feet a lot. So you know just, we have to, like, take a step back and be like, okay, like what are all the things that I do each and every day and then also across the week, that are, you know, putting physical stress on my body, that burning energy? Okay, I have to feel those things, you know. So some of those things might be intentional workouts. Some of those things might be like, oh, I'm walking my dogs or I'm playing with my kids, or you know whatever.
Speaker 3:You know whatever it is. If you live in a big city like I lived in New York City for 15 years like just living in a big city you're often walking around a lot. So we have to always think about things from that lens and not just like, okay, yeah, I went to the gym for 30 minutes and then that's it. Now some people really are like, hey, I went to the gym for a bit or I did whatever workout and then I'm sitting on my butt the rest of the day. So like I have days like that too where.
Speaker 3:I'm just sat in front of the computer working with my clients or whatever, but yeah, so I think that's like one thing that I like to remind people about. But but yeah, I think, just thinking about what you do and not getting like caught up in the oh well I'm, you know I'm such a slow athlete, or I don't even consider myself an athlete, so that must mean that I don't need to eat as much as like well, no, actually you need to think about you know what you're doing relative to you. Like is what you're doing like, do you feel it's challenging? Or you know what's your intensity, you know so what's thinking?
Speaker 3:This is where we come into like personalized nutrition, whether we're talking every day, or performance nutrition. So when I say performance nutrition, that's really that like immediately before, during and after sport nutrition. So when I say pro nutrition, that's really that like immediately before, during and after sport. Um, so we have to individualize everything and not fall into like a comparison trap, and that's really why we have a lot of like. We do have a lot of um. You know formulas or things we use that are body weight based. Or you know we think about kind of what is your perceived effort or your actual effort level and stuff like that. So so yeah, don don't. Even if you don't consider yourself an athlete, that doesn't mean you don't need fuel no, that that's awesome and that leads right into.
Speaker 1:So I listened to the last one. I've listened to yours because I'm a subscriber, because I'm like that. Um, I love that. The stevie smith episode, who's from buffalo, who we are. We are currently sitting outside of buffalo ourselves, so I I applaud her for using her snowblower and feeling like a badass um.
Speaker 1:Yes, please but you spoke to and you spoke a little to, what you're talking about with the, with the back of the pack, athletes, but you mentioned something that I'd never considered and you framed it in a cool way is is being fueled for your individual, and let's just call them tasks, not even sports, because, like you said, there's a rainbow of things. Um, what does fueled feel like? Because here's where I'm coming to it from. So one one sport that scott and I did for a long time was highland games, and I don't know if you're familiar. It's a scottish to cath.
Speaker 1:It's a scottish to cathlete, it's throwing some rocks and sticks and the telephone pole in a field, in a kilt you're really into the esoteric stuff, oh yeah that's how strength sports work.
Speaker 1:Strength sports are weird. Um, not maybe run 240 miles weird, but they're weird. Um, but I would convince myself that between events I would have to eat like uncrustustables and Nutty Buddies because I needed to feel, and for me fueled felt almost like over-caffeinated, Like that's. I think how I delusionally had it in my head that I was ready to go if I was vibrating a little, and that seemed. Looking back, that seems really wrong. So when you speak to fueled fueled for your task, so when you speak to fueled fueled for your task, I feel like what I'm learning now is that it's almost pre-planning to have enough energy for my task. Am I off base?
Speaker 3:Well, I mean, you mentioned having Uncrustables and like nut butters, that's not necessarily a bad thing. I don't think that's a bad thing, I mean. So this is like a really broad question and it's really tricky to answer and I hate using going back to the it depends thing, because it's so annoying when, when FDI additions say that. But it's true, because it depends on who you are and what you're doing and how long you're out there and how hard you're working and what your goals are and all that stuff. So, like when I, what does fueled feel? Like I mean, we can really open that up. Like are we talking? Like across the day, like a normal day? Are we talking about during whatever activity you're doing?
Speaker 3:Because here's what not fueled looks like being under or, let's say, under fueled feels like crashing in the afternoon, like being so tired all the time crashing in the afternoon, like being so tired all the time that you know you're you can't really like get through the rest of your day Because, again, we're, if you're a recreational athlete, this is not your job. Like you have actual jobs, you have other responsibilities. Like you don't want to be feeling like hot garbage all the time because you are under fueled, so being adequately fueled, because in that whole adequate and word enough, I think it can be really vague and confusing to people to kind of figure out. Well, what does that even mean? And this is where, like you know, we explore like okay, well, again, like, how active are you and what is going on and what stage of life are you in? And you know, we, there are many things that go into thinking about, like what your energy needs, our carb needs, protein needs, all that.
Speaker 3:So, in terms of, yeah, what does fueled feel? Like? I would say well fueled feels like you know, having feeling like you have the energy to do what it is you're setting out to do, like it doesn't mean that things aren't hard, you know, because if you're really pushing yourself and talented yourself, even if you're a well fueled, that's going to be hard right, but it's feeling like you can get through it. And, of course, there's the aspect of like okay, well, let's just use running as an example, because I am not as familiar with some of these strengths that you're mentioning.
Speaker 3:But like, if you're, obviously, if you're running beyond your fitness level and you know, and beyond what you can truly do, you're going to burn out, blow up whatever. That's not a nutrition issue, that's like a you know, just be smart about pacing issue, right, but but assuming you're staying within a reasonable place for you, then if you're well fueled, then you should be able to complete what you set out to do and then, of course, well trained too, right, if you're well fueled, then you should be able to complete what you set out to do and then, of course, well trained to write. If you're well fueled, then you should be able to recover your muscles, should be able to recover from the effort. Maybe it'll take a little time if you push really, really hard, but you should be able to recover well and get back to it. You should be able to not be getting sick all the time and not, you know, have bones be breaking and things like that. If you're well fueled, you should have the energy to you know, take care or be with your family and friends and do your job and all that.
Speaker 3:Now, that's not to say we're never feeling tired, but like I'm a realist, okay, like I have two little kids. There are nights I don't sleep well, like, life is stressful. We all do our best, right? Um, but when we think about, yeah, what does feeling fueled look like? I mean, it's not normal to feel like crap all the time, even if you're in your fifties. It's just not normal. You know, we can't just be like I feel like shit. Oh, it must be because I'm old. You know, like no, not really, like you're not 90. Okay, like, maybe you need to take a look at some of this other stuff that's happening. So that would be kind of like where I would go a little bit with that. And then, of course, you know, that's a very kind of high level view of things, and then, of course, you can break down further. Well, what does this all mean? But yeah, that's kind of like the type of thing I would look for, because so I get a lot of clients.
Speaker 3:I would say the majority of people I get are people who are just not feeling enough for what they're doing, right, so it's all relative, because sometimes I get endurance athletes who, I mean, they're burning a tremendous amount of energy and you see what you're like oh, wow, you're eating. You know, objectively, it might be like, oh, you're eating enough, you know, and it's like, no, they're not, because they're running an obscene amount of miles per week and this is not enough to fuel that right. So you know, you look at that and then you think, okay, this person's complaining of being fatigued. They might have some medical things going on, like low iron or low vitamin D or things that are a result of inadequate fueling or maybe other things going on. But you know things that are a result of inadequate fueling or maybe other things going on.
Speaker 3:But you know, we get more food into their bodies and often what we see is the person does have more energy, they are recovering faster. Their GI stuff is improving, because under-fueling can lead to GI problems. Their sleep is better, because under-fueling can also cause sleep disturbances. Their mood is better, because under-fueling can also cause mood problems, you know. So you know we see a lot of this stuff improved and so that kind of goes back to that question of like, what does well-fueled look like? And it's not to say that everything's perfect all the time, it just isn't.
Speaker 1:You know, we all struggle with stuff, but we could, we should be able to see some improvements and things should not all be totally garbage all the time okay, I'm going to throw myself under the bus right now because I suspect um many of our listeners, most of which are either strength athletes, everyday people or pickleball players god bless pickleball. Um, whatever I, I am probably under like, based on the little bit, the high level that you just said. I am probably under fueled for life, but I ameliorate it with caffeine. Uh, I suspect that's a bad move.
Speaker 2:Second time you said that and it's the second time that claire has made that noise. Yes, I'm getting the picture that. Yeah, she doesn't like your caffeine habit I have a caffeine habit.
Speaker 1:I, I do. I mean, I'm nothing against caffeine, like how much are we talking?
Speaker 1:oh, we're not, we're not gonna, we're not gonna disclose that but no, but it's not that it's too much, but yeah, it's too much. I I think I mean based on what you're saying is that when I hit that, that midday slump, or I feel like I'm not ready to go train, or I've trained and I feel like I want to die, uh, I've been known to have a monster or a Red Bull, or a cup of coffee or three. Yeah, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I know I'm wrong. That's a bad idea, right?
Speaker 3:I mean, yeah, we want to be careful with caffeine. So caffeine actually is an ergogenic aid or a performance enhancer or, you know, or supplement. So it's very well studied, well researched all that but within a certain dose. So where I get concerned with caffeine is where people are sleeping poorly and or eating poorly and then trying to make up with it for it with by using a stimulant, by overusing the stimulant. That's what caffeine is right, so, um, and that can just lead to not great things, um, especially if you're prone to, like, anxiety or gi issues or anything else. So I think caffeine's awesome, um, but if we use it in a smart way, some of those energy drinks can be like really, really high in caffeine and it's just easy to kind of overdo it. So I think it's fine, you know, even with a red bull or whatever, like, if you like that kind of thing, um, but as long as you're being smart about it. If, if, like, if we're talking in a performance, like, like sporting standpoint, um, because I mean you guys don't do endurance sports or at least I don't think you do so like I imagine like doing like with the strength stuff, like you're like slamming Red Bull and doing that stuff. I mean, I don't know, maybe maybe that helps you, but once you're like piling so much caffeine on top of each other, yeah, that's, that's not great. That's not great.
Speaker 3:I would much rather you like look at, well, why am I tired and why do I feel like I need this much caffeine? You know what I mean. So, like that's the low hanging fruit to me is like always going back to the why. So if something is happening, some problems, some questions, should I do this? Whatever? Something's going on, and we always need to go back to like well, why is this happening? Why? And we always need to go back to like well, why is this happening? Why are you doing this? And then we try to figure that piece out.
Speaker 3:So in this case, it's like OK, well, can we work on your sleep habits? Is there something that's really getting in the way of sleep? And we kind of work on that. And maybe it's like hey, can you go to bed a little bit earlier? Or if you're really struggling with sleep, we kind of explore that and then remembering that, like, what gives you energy? Like food gives you energy. So if it's like an energy thing too, it's like well, you're probably going to feel better if you eat enough, and certainly with carbohydrate.
Speaker 3:Carbohydrate is really the main thing that we want for energy and especially with any activity, with any exercise, that's our muscles preferred fuel source. So, yeah, I go there. And then caffeine we want to just be reasonable with it. So typically we're trying not to go too much above 400 milligrams, which is kind of like your daily coffee or other caffeine source. And then in the sporting context there's actually a very set amount we go for for performance benefits. It's like, was it? I want to say it's three milligram, three to six milligrams per kilogram of body weight, um, maybe over you know, a few hours or something like that. So we might push that a little bit and that's. You know what I'm doing with my endurance clients, um, but yeah, and just kind of like the everyday mix of things. I really I try to get people who are like really pounding coffee and energy drinks to really take a look at what, like why that's happening and what else we can do to help them feel better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that, that that all sounds right, and you know what? I will say it for you this time. If you're listening to this and you're looking for three simple, bulleted answers for your nutrition, you're really not going to find them because it depends, right. I mean that you're really not going to find them because it depends, right. I mean that's the thing, right. I mean that's the thing, claire. I honestly think I mean I could give you some soundbites. No, of course you could, but I think the reality is that I think, if anybody is at this point in the podcast and thinking, well, I have this, that this and the other question, go find Claire on her website, retain her for a while and and figure it out. Um, because I mean Scott and I, who do very similar things, very different when it comes to metabolism, inputs, outputs, the whole nine yards, all right.
Speaker 2:So yeah, john, and I take I want to, I want to, I want to say one quick thing there, no go ahead um, will like.
Speaker 3:One thing I do sometimes encourage people to do and I have a bunch of freebies on my website, eatfornursecom. But one freebie I have is a food journaling exercise and it's just. It's not calorie counting. I want to be very clear about that. I try to avoid calorie counting with my clients as much as possible unless we're just spot checking something. Try to avoid calorie counting with my clients as much as possible unless we're just spot checking something. But it's really just more like a qualitative writing things down and looking at patterns or looking for patterns. So like you know okay, so like and this is something everyone can do as a quick exercise um, so like, write down what time you wake up, how you're feeling, and then kind of just writing down across the day what you ate or drank. We're not measuring food per se, if you want to jot down rough amounts, whatever, but you're looking for patterns, meaning what time are you eating? Are there huge gaps in the day? Like, maybe you had breakfast at eight or maybe you had a lighter than usual breakfast at eight. You didn't have lunch until two, like okay, well, there you go. That's a huge gap in your nutrition that might be leading you to not feeling great, you know. So, just like looking for patterns and like, okay, and then you know, doing a little quick mental checklist and and if you go to my website and read blogs and stuff, you'll get a really good understanding. I have kind of like a nutrition 101 question blog which is like explaining all the different things we need on a balanced plate and snacks and stuff like that, and it's like, okay, well, if you go through, like what is your lunch? Look like, if you're even having lunch, you know, because a lot of things, a lot of things I see with people trying to be healthy with like they're having, okay, I'm having a salad with some chicken and maybe a few croutons. And it's like, okay, you have no carbs, basically. Or lunch you protein? Do I have my fat? Do I have my carbohydrate? Do I have some form of color? Or fruits and vegetables, right, so fiber in their micronutrients. And you can just do like this food journal you're going through and maybe you're right, you see writing down like where the exercise fits in the timing of everything, any notes for yourself maybe you have some GI symptoms or maybe it was a really busy day and maybe you're doing this for a couple of days and even though, yes, you're not a dietician but you can take a look and see gaps, like that's something you should, and the freebie kind of gives prompts of things to look for and what to ask yourself. That's a really helpful exercise as a starting point.
Speaker 3:I do this with my clients when I work with people, where I'm doing what it's called a diary call, like what it's called a diary call, like what does a typical day look like? And then I'm finding the gaps for them and then we're making you know recommendations and goals based on that. So that's an exercise I think that everyone could do, no matter who you are, what you're doing, what you're training or not training for, if you're even sedentary, you know, um, just doing that and doing a little quick self-assessment. And then, yeah, if you're really confused, there are a lot of free resources. I have my podcast, I have my blog, um, I have those freebies. I have, uh, a cool membership program that you can ask questions in. It's super cheap, like three dollars a month, you know. So it's like stuff like that, um, but that's a good starting point you know, all I can think is claire.
Speaker 1:I wish I had met you when I was in my 20s, although I think you were seven at the time but I I kept, I was not I kept a. I kept a gym journal for decades and I did tease out some really great things. But the one thing you just said that I want to punch myself in the face for I never thought about actual meal timing.
Speaker 1:Like I learned foods I could and couldn't eat and, and you know, cuisines I shouldn't eat and and I learned a lot from, from journaling, for sure, but what I I never thought of is, like you know, distance between that last meal and the workout, or the distance between meals and any of that.
Speaker 3:Damn it, damn it yeah, you know, yeah, we don't know what we don't know and right and and you know. Going back to that bulleted thing, like what are some takeaways? Like I'd say for most people, most people feel their best if they're eating every three to four hours or so, and yet I see people all the time go five, six, seven hours without eating, or maybe they think that snacking is bad. You know, it's like no strategic snacks are great, like you want snacks and you want snacks that have carbohydrate and maybe some protein. If you're, like, literally about to go work out, if you're doing like a run or something that's jostling your stomach, like, just keep it to simple carbs. If you're going to the gym, you're doing strength work or something, then yeah, you can tolerate a little bit more, but you always need a carbohydrate. I think people are still very carb phobic and confused about carbs. But carbs that what fuels you, it feels all activity and it's what you need.
Speaker 2:Um, so yeah, A couple of things. You hit on that one that I absolutely loved for forever. We always hear well, I want you to keep a journal of your food and I want you to tell me exactly how much you're eating, weigh it it out, tell me how many calories that are. You're looking more for those gross patterns. So, yes, calories matter, we know that. But that idea of looking for patterns first, I think so many people, especially as we get older, are so afraid of looking at just the when, because it's that's where we can make you know you called it earlier low hanging fruit. I think that's where some of those you know, discoveries can come in Now.
Speaker 2:Excuse me, I'm sorry, I have a question for you. Oh boy, a lot of what you've talked about I mean your podcast is called eating for endurance. I love it. Let's look at the other side for a second. Okay, and this is going to sound a little bit selfish, because john and I are strength athletes.
Speaker 2:Basically like I'll paint a picture for you I am fat, you are such a lawyer the politically correct term is thick. Okay, sorry, I'm 55 years old. I'm six foot tall. I go anywhere from 280 to 300 pounds, depending on where I am in training cycles and whatnot. National competition for me is five one-minute dead-out strength sprints. It could be 650 pounds on my shoulders. Start walking. It could be picking up a 250-pound Atlas stone, basically a cement cannonball, and putting it over a bar for a minute straight for the number of repetitions. How do you fuel for that? And I want to throw another variable in on it for you he's bald.
Speaker 1:Oh, that wasn't the other variable, that wasn't the variable.
Speaker 3:This is shaved. This is bald Kind of being bald. Change your nutrition requirements.
Speaker 1:Yes, it should.
Speaker 2:Now I want you to think about it from the lens that I'm pre-diabetic. I keep myself there by diet and exercise, so my carb intake is minimal. How does that play into it? And I'm not trying to weasel free advice out of you by any stretch of the message no, no, no.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I understand, and so my first question to you would be how does it feel? Well, first of all, okay. So what would you define as low carb? Do you know how much you take in every day?
Speaker 2:Less than 30 probably, now that's not counting, yeah, 30 grams, but that's not counting fiber, my fiber intake is pretty good.
Speaker 3:Well, what's your total carbohydrate intake?
Speaker 2:If you add fiber it probably goes closer to 50 50 to 60, depending on the day.
Speaker 3:Are you in ketosis? Maybe you're too high for that um he's probably close.
Speaker 3:I'm probably really close I don't measure it, but I'm really close if I'm not so I personally am not a fan of low carb diets, even for people who are diabetic. But my first question to you, because, as I always say to people, you are the expert of your body, I am not. How does that feel to you? Do you feel that it's working well? Do you feel good? Do you feel energetic? Do you feel like you're recovering well? Your blood sugars are controlled. How does that work for you?
Speaker 1:Oh, let me answer. Let me answer because after the bald thing, I feel bad. Scott has one of the best engines in strength sports. If, from a third-person standpoint to say, does he operate optimally? Absolutely, he's just an animal when it comes to being able to do these. I mean, if you think of him as a sprinter carrying a horse on his back, that that's what, that's what, that's what a day of competition feels like and he's really good at it. So he, he's really good at it. But I mean, and why he brought up diabetes and why he and I talked about it before we talked to you, is a lot of our contemporaries struggle with it. So it was interesting that you mentioned that, even for diabetics, you're not afraid of carbs.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, because it's also. It's how we're including them and the types of carbohydrate and you know, having them alone versus paired with protein and fat and fiber and all that kind of stuff. But but again, going back to so my question still is like it sounds like correct me if I'm wrong that this is working well for you and you're feeling good.
Speaker 2:During competitions, you know.
Speaker 3:John said I'm just, I don't know yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm saying no, I'm saying during competitions John hit it. My gas tank is one of my greatest assets and I lean on it heavily. I don't feel bad at the end of the day. Your body feels physically beat up because, you know, in like I said with that atlas stone thing last year, I did it for 14 repetitions in a minute. So you know, in that minute I've lifted a ton and a half of weight. So I'm physically muscular beat up. But in terms of how do I feel, with like lethargy or something like that, I'm okay. You know I'm not bad now during like lately. It's funny because you you made the comment. You know how are you feeling? Are you tired in the middle of the afternoon lately?
Speaker 2:yes I mean I'm yawning, you know it three o'clock in the afternoon, three o'clock in the afternoon, four o'clock in the afternoon. But I'm a college administrator, so my days are 10, 12 hours long.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and and so. So look what what we know. Even though, like you guys are not my typical client, I'm not going to lie.
Speaker 2:Like.
Speaker 3:I work predominantly with people in different sports. It's not to say I've never worked with people in strength sports like I definitely have, but it's not, I wouldn't say it's my area of expertise. That said, you know, we still know, that even in strength sports, like, you need carbohydrate to feel that. And so my, I guess what I would say for you is it never hurts to experiment and to see what it feels like to do something a little bit different, you know, and to say, hmm, I wonder how I feel if, if I do include some carbohydrate right before I compete or right for a hard session, especially higher intensity, that's where our body requires more carbohydrates. So at any point in time, we're burning a mixture of carbohydrate and fat for fuel, and the higher the intensity, the more we're relying on carbohydrate, and that's going to shift for each person where that kind of that point is across the point. But but yeah, so we know, like if you're sprinting, you need carbs for that Absolutely. And so my question, my point of curiosity, would be I wonder how you'd feel. So you're feeling pretty good now, Cool, I imagine like how great might you feel, or might you feel even better, if we add some carbs back and I'm not saying like, go suddenly on a high carbohydrate diet, but could we incorporate some carbohydrate before? Maybe it's even just having a banana or I don't know, whatever. You know, maybe we're pairing it just for, you know, blood sugar purposes, maybe we're kind of pairing it with a nut butter or something else and for fullness and such. You know, maybe you're trying something like that and then you know what difference does that make, you know? So just incorporating some carbohydrate here and there and seeing if that helps.
Speaker 3:Because you know, we know carbohydrates are so incredibly important for a number of things, not just for, you know, performance, but you know, we know that they're important for other aspects of health. You know they can help preserve muscle mass, they can protect your bones. They help promote iron absorption, they regulate hormone function. They provide a primary energy source to the brain. So if you're on ketosis, we know that ketones can be used too, but that's in a starvation state and you know that also something to be a little worried about. But it's a primary energy source in the brain. It helps maintain your GI function, influences heart health. I mean there's so many things that carbohydrates do. They play such critical roles in so many different areas.
Speaker 3:So you know, I think there's a lot of misunderstanding, Like when someone is, you know, has a high hemoglobin A1C, that you know kind of longer-term blood sugar lab marker, and they're told, oh, you're pre-diabetic or or someone has diabetes. You know everyone's like, oh, I need to completely remove carbohydrates. Like no, that's actually not true, you don't need to remove carbohydrate, you just might need to to consume it a little bit differently and be a little bit more aware. So maybe we are focusing on some higher fiber carb sources or you know kind of higher quality carbohydrate source, the more complex carbohydrate. Or maybe we're having carbohydrate with a protein, with a lean protein or with some unsaturated fats or whatever it is, with some you know other fiber sources. So you know, versus say, just having you know straight sugar right Spike your blood sugar, and you guys listened to that blood sugar episode. So hopefully that kind of shed a little light on that.
Speaker 3:But you know, for certain athletes, and certainly the athletes that I work for, there's really a time and a place for simple carbohydrates. So think things like white bread and any form of sugar, milk and other dairy products, juice, like that kind of stuff, maple syrup, honey you know all those very quick energy sources. There's a time and a place for that and because when you think about you know, as athletes, what do we need when we're exercising. We need quick energy, we need something that's easy to digest and gets into our system fast, versus other times where we might want a slower release and like more blood sugar control. From that regard, and then in exercise, you know, we also the way in which we kind of use things and how our blood sugar responds is a little bit different as well.
Speaker 3:And again, if any listeners are curious, definitely go check out that episode on blood sugar on my podcast with Hayden James. That's a really good one. But yeah, so how do you feel what's the optimal way to fuel? Um, I mean, I certainly would recommend a combination like carbohydrates with some protein, um, most likely. I mean, what do you feel with now?
Speaker 2:my day is I mean before, I'm sorry my day, you know, day of a. It would be eggs, some sort of a breakfast meat, that type of a thing. If I'm eating at home. It would be. There's a bread that's around here that I found that is incredibly, incredibly good and it's zero net carbs. It's like almost all fiber and you know I'll make a toast with that and you know I'll make a toast with that. So that would be day of a breakfast type of thing to make sure that I've got enough in me that I don't run out of gas in that gas tank during the competition. It's, you know, the right types of protein bars. It's, um, I'm a big fan of nuts, peanuts, cashews those types of things.
Speaker 1:Oh, oh, my god. Sorry I was getting bored over here.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, yeah, so, and like Pedialyte, that type of stuff oh wait, you take Pedialyte.
Speaker 2:Gatorade Pedialyte. So it's the zero okay, yeah.
Speaker 3:so this is where I'd be so curious with like, because, like what you're doing with strength, it's like very quick burst of high intensity effort, right.
Speaker 3:So, you need carbohydrate for that. That's like a very quick burst of like if you're sprinting that kind of stuff like, yeah, that have like carbohydrate stores. Now if you're not consuming any carbohydrate, your stores will be reduced. But I would just be so curious of like okay, eggs, great. If you want a breakfast meat situation, fine, with like metabolic diseases, then I probably would watch out for your saturated fat intake and not be like over consuming like bacon and things like that too, you know. So it's like it's not all about carb. People tend to demonize carbohydrate and then kind of not look at all the other things that are also potentially not great. So like carbohydrates have all kinds of great things going for it. So it's like if you have like a whole grain bread like I would kind of get rid of that whole net carb situation. Like that's stupid in my opinion.
Speaker 3:I mean I would just think about like hey, what if I just had like a whole grain bread that has some fiber in it?
Speaker 3:But like you don't need to go insane and but get some carbs in there, like I love Dave's killer bread or just any like whole wheat bread or whole grain bread, whatever, um, and you know what, if you're having that to introduce some carbohydrate, you have two slices of that. That's like 42 grams of carbohydrate, which I realize is almost your day's allowance, oh my god, of course, but, um, blowing your whole day's allowance on two slices of bread, um, but like, especially on a competition day to have something that. Or maybe you're having some fruit of some kind to get some. You know, that's also fiber and carbs and fluid and micronutrients. Like maybe you're having some citrus or whatever it is that you enjoy, and seeing how that feels, you know, um, so, so if I were to work with somebody, I 100 would not recommend going on a low-carb diet.
Speaker 3:But for if I'm, if I get someone like you're coming to me asking these questions and I'm like, ok, well, I'm really curious how it feels to make just a couple small changes. And then what if we swapped your Gatorade Zero? For you know, maybe you're you're sticking with a Gatorade zero or an electrolyte bread beverage that doesn't have sweeteners in it, like scratch has, like a everyday hydration mix that I really love, or other. There are other things out there that are no carbohydrate, but have the electrolyte piece If you feel like you need it, like I don't know, are you sweating heavily?
Speaker 2:Do you, oh my God, yes.
Speaker 3:Yeah, okay Cool.
Speaker 2:But yeah, okay cool, but part of it is great yeah, I mean I drink a lot of water during the day purposely, so I mean I do keep hydrated.
Speaker 3:So it's sort of that vicious circle, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I mean you want to make sure you're getting electrolytes in on a competition day if you're sweating profusely, you don't want just plain water, obviously. Um, so that's another thing that has to be very, very much individualized, uh, because sweat rate so how much fluid you lose per hour and also your salt, your sweat composition so how much sodium and other salts are in your sweat those two things are incredibly variable from one person to the next, and environment changes as well.
Speaker 3:So if you're, in the hot climate because it's cold. Maybe you're indoors and it's all climate controlled, but so those are things to think about. But during the competition, and especially if it's over like a prolonged period, like, let's say, I don't know what your competitions are like, but if it's like you're there for hours and you're doing something for a short period of time, then you're waiting around and you're doing something else, like when I was like my track athletes or something. So it sounds like you guys are kind of in a similar situation. It's like cool, well, you need to fuel before your competition and then you're waiting around.
Speaker 3:You need to eat something and then, maybe before your next event, when you need to have that quick burst of energy, that's where that simple sugar comes in.
Speaker 3:That's where we have, like you know the chews or the you probably don't want to gel, but maybe a sports drink with carbohydrate in it, like a regular Gatorade, a regular tail orange or scratch or whatever it is you enjoy maybe you're having.
Speaker 3:So it's like very like intentionally placed simple sugars, right? So even like there are ultra runners out there, by the way, who are like low carb people or carnivore whatever, and again, I completely do not agree with that approach at all, but there's some people who it just works for them but even even are in competition, including sports nutrition products with carbohydrates because you need that to perform and so yeah, so again, I would be curious, like mixing some of that up or trying some things or having, you know, choose, or having a banana or pretzels or whatever it is that you want to have as your kind of simple carb source during, like right before you're competing, right, because, again, you don't want all the fiber. That's not like yeah, you're not running, it's not the same thing. You're not like worried that you're gonna poop your pants, you know, because you're like, but still you don't want to feel heavy and like bloated and terrible, like you don't need that much fiber, right.
Speaker 3:It's like it's just stupid so I wouldn't put it there like have fiber elsewhere and you can get fiber also in, just you know plant, normal plant foods you don't need.
Speaker 3:Like there's so many products out there that are just like loaded with all this, like like who needs fiber soda? Like that's idiotic, like why? Why do we need that? You know what I mean? Or like protein ice cream it's such a freaking ice cream. Um, people are like all these like kind of fortified functional foods out there. It's just getting out of control. So that's how I think about it. And then in the recovery, so immediately after competition, you know, just having a nice balanced meal, that's another place where your body probably wants some carbohydrate. And again, maybe we're having it from whole grains or beans or legumes or starchy vegetables. I'm not saying like sit around and have like a candy bar or something, you know what I mean and it's a balanced meal with protein and fat. So again, your body's using that differently than just plain simple carbohydrate. So, thinking about it more in those terms. And then what I would be super curious about is you trying it and then emailing me and letting me know how that goes?
Speaker 2:Well, I'll definitely do it, but I want to point no, no, no, I have no problem doing that whatsoever because it's all. It's all about growth and that's what we try to deal with, with what we do. You know, you mentioned an episode with your friend Hayden where you talked about blood glucose.
Speaker 1:That's actually how I found Claire was. I found that episode and I was like this is gold.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is super important I listened to that today at work and I was like, oh, I love this. And the one thing and without hitting it, you know, specifically saying we talked about you, talked about it when you're just talking to me is it's not only what you eat, but what you eat. With what you eat, you know mixing those carbs with the fats with this, with that. You know and I'm going to defend myself for half a second so john can make fun of me again I'm one of those truly, truly lucky people.
Speaker 1:My cholesterol, my triglycerides are all normal even with all the how am I supposed to make fun? I'm not making fun. I actually see. No, no see. Here's the deal. I am a career scientist forever, so what I, what I heard while claire was talking, is I want to drill down to you know, claire kept saying try this and see how you feel. What's, what's the timeline on. Like if scott were to add I don't know, and I don't even know the increment 50 grams of carbs a day. Like, like, what? What does try this mean to you in more of a like, an applied way? Like, does he go out and eat?
Speaker 1:I mean uh, you know 400 grams of carbs. Where are we? And then what's the timeline on?
Speaker 3:how do you feel? Yeah, so you never want to do anything too quickly. So if you are currently on a fairly low carbohydrate diet, so for for him, it was you know, 50-inch grams. You know I said had suggested, oh, why don't you have a you know one or two slices of normal bread before a competition? Or actually, maybe we're not starting competition. Let's start with like a training day, because obviously always want to practice things in training first. Maybe that's it, maybe that's the only change you make and you're just like how did that feel? So we want slowly, very small increments to kind of practice things and then also keep in mind that as you increase your carbohydrate, you need to increase your fluid. Now you're already drinking so much fluid. You're probably one of those guys running around with one of those gigantic water bottles or something in the gym or something.
Speaker 2:You mean the bottle sitting next to my foot right now in the studio? Yes, it's like his whoopee.
Speaker 3:Is it one of those bottles that basically put in those water machines?
Speaker 2:I think he's basically a strong man, so he could carry his water bottle around it's a liter of water and I probably go between three and five a day, depending on the day I'm training.
Speaker 3:That's fine, um, but yeah, we never want to do anything too quickly and that goes for anything. I've had people increase protein too fast and feel unwell, you know, and have gut issues or whatever. So, with carbs, yeah, we want to kind of incrementally try it and so like just kind of even just within the day, within that meal that afternoon, so we can look at it from a micro and a macro scale. So, like within that day, like, yeah, how did it feel? Or within that training session, how did it feel to have those pieces of bread or that fruit or whatever you included Versus what you normally do? Did you feel any different? Was it the same, better or worse? And then, yeah, we don't want to judge it based on just one thing.
Speaker 3:So maybe you're trying something else or maybe the same thing on another day, and then, yeah, maybe if it felt the same or better, then maybe we build on that and like, okay, cool, so I'm in this comp, I'm going to try taking something with sugar, I'm going to try incorporating whole grains or something into my recovery meal or whatever. And then, same thing how does this feel? How do I feel now? How do I feel three hours later? Four hours later how do I feel at night, you know. So you're always kind of taking stock of all the different things. Um, I like to tell my clients, you know, we're trying to like connect the dots and just kind of piece things together and it's not always clear. Um, sometimes people like I'm a lot of times getting people like a lot of my clients are not eating before they run or do another workout.
Speaker 3:I'm always trying to get them to do that, especially, especially as we get older. It's really important. And so, you know, sometimes they're like I don't feel any different, or like I'm like cool, but do you feel different later in the day? Because you know, sometimes they're starving later in the day and they're like why am I so hungry? And I'm like, okay, well, let's make sure. And especially if they're doing a longer session, um, if you're eating enough before and you're eating you're feeling yourself really well during a session let's say it's like a long run or something then a lot of times they're not starving as starving later in the day or the next day. A lot of times with like, really like true hard and or long efforts. Sometimes appetite suppress afterwards and then you're really hungry the following day. So you know it's paying attention to in the moment and then later on day. So you know it's paying attention to in the moment and then later on. And then if, and obviously if things don't feel as good, if you're like I actually am feeling worse and performing worse, and you have it's not just one day or even two days, but you're doing this for a week or whatever, like then, yeah, go back to what worked for you.
Speaker 3:So there, always, yeah, there's going to be a lot of end of one experimentation, I think with all the stuff with nutrition, we have the literature, what the literature says. We know that there's decades of research supporting carbohydrate. There's been no proven benefit to going low carb that we know of, at least right now. But at the end of the day, there will always be people who say I feel better doing this for myself, and I'm never going to gaslight people. I'm like you don't feel better doing that.
Speaker 3:Like if someone comes to me and they're like I don't feel good eating dairy but they're not like proven to be lactose intolerant. I'm not going to be like you must eat yogurt. You know, we're just going to figure out what can they eat that feels good to them. So that's where I try to be. You know, again, I'm never recommending the style of eating and I do try to encourage people to eat differently. But again, at the end of the day, you know your body best. So play around and see what works for you cool, okay let's transition away from the elite.
Speaker 2:That is scott and his strong man no, scott is not elite, john is teasing.
Speaker 1:I told you john was gonna do whatever I am not I am not teasing you, no, because you're at the other end of the spectrum that I'm going to bring up. So I play about you, yeah than me. I play about eight hours of pickleball a week. Uh, the group I'm in is about 250 people in the chat that you know show up when they show up. Uh, I have been approached both because of the podcast and just because I'm moderately fit, and I think you said it in in what you were telling. Scott. A lot of people wonder, worry about like sort of inter competition nutrition, like, as you know, as they're in a big tournament, and then I get a lot of I. I don't feel full at the end of the day and I think I think you answered it, but I just want to highlight it again you got to get out ahead of this stuff, is that correct? Like your nutrition is not reactive, it needs to be a lot more proactive, is that true?
Speaker 3:Totally.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:Absolutely so, and it's going to depend on what you're doing, but especially if you're I mean, pickleball, you know there's a lot of kind of again bursts of activity, but often it's over a prolonged period of time. And so you know it's easy, especially if you're not fueling during or you didn't fuel well before and you're out there for a long time, and especially if it's hot out and you're also, like you know, becoming dehydrated and everything, it's really easy to suddenly be in a deficit. And then when we get into more endurance sports, it's pretty much impossible not to be in a deficit. You know you're just, you're not able to keep up with what your body needs, and that's why it's so incredibly important to eat enough beforehand and really go into the session both well-fueled and well-hydrated, to do your best during, whatever it is that you're doing, to kind of keep up with feeling and hydration.
Speaker 3:And then afterwards again, we're rehydrating, we're focusing on our recovery nutrition. And then it might be if you're doing something, for you're out there for a long time. You know, recovery doesn't suddenly like stop like an hour or two after you're done exercising. It's an ongoing process. You might be recovering depending on what you're doing, especially if it's a longer, harder effort, for 24 hours, 48 hours, whatever. So it's just kind of keeping up with all these things. You know, sometimes people are like, oh, I just need to slam this recovery shake and then I'm done. It's like, no, you need to. You need to do a lot more than that to recover. It's an ongoing process. So so, yeah, with something like pickleball, you know, with any activity, really like I really encourage you to try to put together a meal that you know ideally is rich in carbohydrate and probably and then you're looking well, you're looking at also the situation. So, again, going back to that, it depends like okay, well, how much time do you have to digest, do you?
Speaker 3:have enough time to digest, like a balanced meal with protein and carbohydrate I mean carbs, of course, carbohydrate, but protein and fat and a little fiber too. Or are you kind of running out the door and you need something really quick, in which case it's we mostly carbohydrate, maybe with a little bit of protein, maybe we're staying a little lower on the fiber and the fat side. Um, but it depends on individual tolerance, you know. So I'm using the example of pickleball because you are kind of running, you know sprinting whatever around, so you are jostling the stomach. We're going to notice differences if you're just lifting or if you're on the bike or whatever.
Speaker 1:But the other reason why I bring up pickleball is like and again this is the ego moment of the podcast we seem to always have one Like I was a collegiate athlete, I've been kind of an athlete most of my adult life. Kind of one died and they're terrified of their mortality. All of a sudden they know they need to move and and you know they're getting their uh, nutrition advice from the cover of woman's world magazine or something they heard on dr oz or something like that.
Speaker 1:And you know the things I hear come out of people when they ask me are like well, you know, I think we thought that was true in the 70s but, you know, the reality is probably vastly different now. Um, so I, I, you know, for those you know, new athletes, let's call them new athletes. You know, two things I think you've said is you know, it depends I love it depends. This is really going to be the theme of this whole damn thing is that it does depend, um, on them and their needs. But it really comes down to how do you feel and getting out in front of I mean, if you do it wrong once, you did it wrong once, it's time to pick yourself up, dust yourself off and say, well, maybe I need to eat more before you know a long day.
Speaker 1:Uh, maybe I needed to try more carbs, uh, things like that. Yeah, because I haven't.
Speaker 3:Yeah. No, I was just going to say we haven't also mentioned the fact that, like so many, people are afraid of carbs because they think it's going to make them fat or they're going to not be able to lose weight. And there's the whole diet culture underbelly of all this.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:Which is really really runs very deep and it's very hard. And a lot of the people I work with I mean I work with a lot of midlife women who are really struggling with changing bodies and trying to shrink themselves and you know, there's just, there's just so many layers to this because if it were as easy as hey just eat more carbohydrates and like, or just eat more like, you know, my job would be pretty easy. But it's actually there's a lot of resistance and there's a lot of fear and there's also a lot of misinformation and a lot of confusing shit out there online, you know. So there's some people being like this is bad, this is good, this and that whatever, and avoid this and avoid that, and people kind of be just so freaking confused about what to eat. Or maybe they're having other issues, like gut issues, and you know they think they're allergic to this and that. So there's a lot. It's not like that it depends thing. It really it encompasses so much because, you know, when people come to me with their nutrition issues, I mean it's so much more complicated than people really understand or think, because nutrition is also a very emotional thing.
Speaker 3:You know, there are many reasons why we eat. All of us grow up in different environments and different relationships to food and body. Again, this is why I love to explore this. You know that area. When I talk to athletes, you know I call it their nutrition roots. You know, maybe they had, you know, a parent who made them feel really ashamed of their body or how they ate, or maybe their parent really struggled and they kind of watched that and that really colored how they view their own body or whatever the case may be.
Speaker 3:There are so many reasons why we eat or don't eat or whatever. You know how, how we eat and how we view food. You know, maybe it's what we see online and who we're influenced by, so it's really complicated. So we always have to kind of keep that part in mind that you know there's a lot of disorder deem that's very normalized, including in the endurance sporting world, but all over the place. And it's not to say that you know, like I have people who come to me with aesthetic goals and you know I understand like I'm not saying it's wrong to want to look a certain way or to, you know, to feel good in your body and all that, but there's a lot of crazy shit that goes down and it's really hard and it's really sad um some of it. So, yeah, it's tough. It's really tough some of the work that I do um there's a reason why it's nutrition counseling or coaching.
Speaker 3:You know we're not just me saying eat, eat this piece of toast, it's, it's.
Speaker 1:You know we're going a lot deeper sometimes yeah, and this is where I'll bring it back to nutritionist versus dietician people make sure you're getting good advice from someone who's put in the work to to give good advice. And one quick thing, and none of us are qualified to talk about this, but you mentioned women in their midlife. Hormones are hormone, like changing the hormones. That's an issue correct. Like I always tell people that are struggling and like and I eat like this and I seem like I'm good and my body is still changing. That's a thing, right, like I, I I'm unqualified to even know that.
Speaker 3:There's, there's, there's a lot going on in perimenopause and, you know, postmenopause and all that. The one thing I'll say, um, and this relates back to under under eating, under fueling, and again, you can be a sedentary person and be under fueling.
Speaker 1:So let's not kind of get about this only as being an athlete problem right, yeah, we can't drift over that. You can be a what and do what. Is that really true?
Speaker 3:So it's like under-fueling is not. It doesn't matter who you are. You can be a recreational or elite athlete, you can be not an athlete at all. So you know, I think the thing to remember here because we're talking about hormones is like if you're under-fueling, that about hormones is like if you're under feeling, that's going to fuck your hormones up. Um, so it's not.
Speaker 3:Yes, it is not just about um being at a certain stage of life. You know, it's um, it's about if you're getting enough uh fuel in your body. So like under feeling can lead if you have, if you have chronic low energy availability. Low energy availability just means that you have energy left over for your body to do all the amazing, wonderful things that it needs to do to function after the cost of exercise. So if you chronically have, if you have chronic low energy availability, if you don't have enough energy to do what it needs to do, the body starts just kind of shutting certain things down and affects all different parts of the body. This is why women lose their periods, um, it's why we see kind of low testosterone in men or sex drive, or loss of morning erection, like when there are all kinds of problems. That's just like the reproductive side, but they're all different parts of the body that can go uh awry, basically, um, because the body's conserving and it's trying to survive.
Speaker 3:The body's so smart, it's so amazing. So, all to say, like the hormonal stuff, it's not just women in midlife, it can be all over the map, and it can be men too with hormonal problems, if you're not feeling enough.
Speaker 1:Well, that may. I mean I could see that as a huge mistake for the recreational or less than athlete, where I'm thinking well, you know, I haven't done very much today, so I'm just going to have some popcorn and maybe this breath mint because I haven't expended a lot of calories, but you forget about that baseline metabolism. Just to breathe, yeah, just to keep yourself fueled? Wow, I never ever considered that that's amazing.
Speaker 2:But one of the things that I really you mentioned it and John's mentioned it a lot of when you deal with dietetics is you're dealing with an N of one because you're dealing with one person, but when you deal with one, the variables are so incredibly. The amount of variable that is in there because you're right, what are you doing during the day? How do you feel what time that is in there? Because you're right, what are you doing during the day? How do you feel what time are you eating all of these different things? And then you just open up a whole new right can to john and I and this idea of yes, you know there are some changes that will happen at certain times in our lives, but those hormonal changes can happen at any time if your diet is off scott.
Speaker 1:I would like to recommend eat for endurancecom, where you can get personalized guidance in such things. There are free resources to be found online and Claire is incredibly amenable to helping you reach your fitness or lifestyle goal.
Speaker 2:This is an unpaid promotion for eatforendurancecom and we have no problem doing it out there, claire, this has been incredible. One of the things that we sort of do is I've picked up three things thus far.
Speaker 3:I just turned and looked at the clock and we've been going for well over an hour already.
Speaker 2:It's a great, great conversation. Three things that I've picked up thus far Make sure you're not under-fueled, Amen. Make sure that you're not eliminating carbohydrates in some form or fashion from your diet. Hallelujah, brother. And number three it depends. You're adorable.
Speaker 1:You're adorable, nice.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, totally, and you know, I I mentioned some blog posts that I have on my website and I will say a lot of these are, um, like everything's, very much framed as an endurance athlete or as a runner, but a lot of the principles I mentioned carry over to a lot of different sports um, and some of it, like runner piece, that was honestly just for SEO purposes.
Speaker 3:You know, you got to get some views there. But yeah, the post specifically that I mentioned was how much do I need to eat as an endurance athlete? But again, a lot of. Even though it's kind of geared towards the endurance athlete, I think someone who isn't even isn't an endurance athlete can learn a lot from it, because it talks about how, on different types of training days, your plate can look different. It just talks about some basics there, um, and people can look around like I have a hydration post, I have a kind of what to eat before. Again, it says running, but this is applicable to a lot of other forms of exercise, so people can check that out. Um, and yeah, if you just want to come ask me questions, you can join my membership and hang with me me and we do live monthly presentations and get access to a lot of my resources and stuff. It's a fun little group.
Speaker 1:Yeah, claire, I like I said I and I think I accidentally did what you just said, whereas I sort of took the word uh, endurance athlete out and I just put in human being and you, you have, you have so much great content. I mean, I teased so many good things out of it and I'm so happy that you came on today. We will circle back at some point as we stuff carbs down Scott's throat to see what the changes are.
Speaker 2:I write Claire and say well, claire, I'm now 600 pounds and I can't move, violet, you're turning violet, violet.
Speaker 3:Yeah, just start slow with anything, Just make small incremental changes and just observe. You know it's all a grand experiment, you know, with all this stuff and it's fun to experiment.
Speaker 1:Well, Claire, thank you for coming on today. I think this is a great place to wrap it up. I request, as always, to circle back at some point and do this again, Cause I think you're going to get an N of two out of Scott and I and we're going to have things to talk about.
Speaker 2:Normally, john would say you're going to get an N of two out of Scott because that's his fat joke shot at me. I did that already.
Speaker 1:I checked that box already. Check that box, Claire. Thank you for your time box already.
Speaker 3:Check that box. All right, claire. Thank you for your time. Yeah, yeah, you're welcome and I'm serious. Try, try some of those changes. I'm really curious and like let me know how you feel. I really want to know because I mean, maybe like it's not for you, but I would be. I I would be pretty surprised if you didn't feel better.
Speaker 2:I don't know, we're actually two months out from tomorrow will be two months out from this year's national competition. So now would be a good time to to try some of these changes, because we've got you know, at two months it's sort of you're at competition waits for all these things you're pushing it through the minute so now would be a good time for me to do them, because if they work, phenomenal. If they don't tell me you know what, scott, go back, then I've got the time to go back. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3:Cool. I just honestly don't see the downside to including real bread versus I don't know whatever bread you were having. But I just don't see a downside to that, truly To me. I can't think of a single downside, unless you were having some sort of GI reaction to it. Which why would you if you're already having more fiber in the?
Speaker 3:other thing, so nope, not a problem, yeah, and if anyone's on instagram, let's give me a follow. I'm eat for endurance on there. That's mostly where I'm active and I have a youtube channel again. Pretty stand, pretty consistent with my branding. So just search for eat for endurance and you'll find me well done.
Speaker 1:well, we're gonna. We're gonna pick this up sometime in the future. So, claire, again I appreciate your time and, as always, I am John and I'm still Scott. Have a good day, claire, and thank you for everything. Thank you.
Speaker 3:You too Bye.
Speaker 1:Bye. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with others, post it on your social media or leave a review. To catch all the latest from us, you can follow us on Instagram at Masters Athlete Survival Guide. Thanks again. No-transcript.