The Masters Athlete Survival Guide
We explore thriving as an athlete after 40. Each episode, we’ll dive into tips, hacks, and inspiring stories from seasoned athletes and our personal experience. Whether you’re a weekend warrior or a competitive pro, this podcast is your playbook for staying fit, strong, and motivated
The Masters Athlete Survival Guide
The Mind-Muscle Connection: Balancing Medical Science with Strength Training with Dr. Erik Jensen
Dr. Erik Jensen bridges the gap between medical science and strength training wisdom, sharing insights from his dual perspective as an anesthesiologist and competitive strongman at age 55.
• Trained in Buffalo and worked at Erie County Medical Center as an anesthesiologist for decades
• Found weightlifting during college, used it as stress relief during medical residency
• Competed in powerlifting before transitioning to strongman competition
• Weighs under 200 pounds but competes successfully against much heavier athletes
• Set a goal to own the world record in deadlift for the over-80 age class
• The mental health benefits of intensive training: "The harder I beat my body, the quieter the voices in my head became"
• How strongman training naturally incorporates the conjugate method through implement variety
• Why physicians typically have poor knowledge of strength training and exercise science
• The importance of training smarter but not necessarily easier as we age
• Why protein supplementation is overhyped compared to actual resistance training
• Effective supplements with scientific backing: creatine, caffeine, and occasionally beta-alanine
• Finding enjoyable activities is crucial for long-term exercise adherence
• The social aspect of training becomes increasingly important as we age
• Exercise should involve some degree of "strain" to activate physiological mechanisms
Find something you enjoy that gets you moving. Medical evidence clearly shows that movement reduces hip fractures, spine fractures, stroke and heart disease rates – and the more movement, the better the outcomes.
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New episodes come out every other Thursday!
Welcome to the Master's Athlete Survival Guide, where we explore the secrets to thriving in sports after 40. I'm John Katalinas and, along with Scott Fyke, we'll dive into training tips, nutrition hacks and inspiring stories from seasoned athletes who defy age limits. Whether you're a weekend warrior or a competitive pro, this podcast is your playbook for staying fit, strong and motivated. Let's get started.
Speaker 2:And we're back, john what.
Speaker 1:There's a stranger in the studio.
Speaker 2:You mean the one I've got locked up under my bed no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, good, good, I'm glad you la la la, we're not talking about that stranger okay, that's fine excellent I look all the way over to the far set of microphones in aurora studio. I mean you need binoculars, wait is that wait?
Speaker 1:is that beyond the suit of armor? Or next to the sasquatch statue? Next to the sasquatch? Oh, okay, okay, I got it I got it, john.
Speaker 2:We've got a very good friend of ours, dr eric jensen, who has for some reason decided to join us today. I'm assuming he owed you money. No, no, no, no, no, no. If anything, I think the compound might owe him a couple of visits yet.
Speaker 3:So Doc why don't you tell?
Speaker 2:us a little about yourself.
Speaker 3:Well, good evening. I am, yes, dr Eric Jensen, and, as I've heard so many times on this, I am actually a real doctor. Wow.
Speaker 2:I take back that good friend of ours comment.
Speaker 3:You're the one that always says you're not a real doctor. I know I like it so.
Speaker 1:I'll take it. I like it. What are we in? You're like a minute ten in A minute. In Slammed A minute in.
Speaker 3:Sorry, eric, sorry. I'm an anesthesiologist at erie county medical center, currently been there for decades, trained in buffalo, grew up in buffalo. Very likely end up in the ground in western new york somewhere not under my bed not under john's been a meathead throughout the whole process that's awesome.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. So we know about you, your lifting story, a little bit. Why don't you tell us a little bit about your story? You know where you are in terms of your master athlete journey and then we'll get into. I mean, we've had a lot of guests on who are, you know, regular meatheads and and we love talking to them and they've got great stories and great experiences. And we've had some folks on, like yourself, who have incredibly high level medical, you know, bioscience type of understanding. You're really that first guest that we have here and we're we're truly thankful for it. That bridges that gap for us. So we want to end up there eventually. But talk about your journey a little bit. You know from where you started and where you find yourself.
Speaker 3:Now. I kind of work in the athletics and meathead along with the education and training, because they do go hand in hand Standard little loop football, baseball as a kid and I was that kid wearing the T-shirt eventually that my sport is your sports punishment. I found track and field. I thought this is I can't believe this is actually a sport, hey who had two minutes and 45 seconds.
Speaker 3:John gets slammed yep, yeah, loved love track. Actually had some skill. Uh, went to the state championship a number of times in high school. Got to college, ran half of one season and realized that well, yeah, this is to get me into medical school and this sports stuff in college. It takes some time, so I quit that and that's really where I found the weight room and just that was my athletic outlet through college was lifting and the old bro science lifting the three sets of 10, run the rack the stupid stuff that we all did back in the day.
Speaker 3:Finished college, went to medical school here in Buffalo. Training was hard during med school. When you're listening to lectures while you shower and literally reading while you're eating, there's not a lot of time for a whole heck of a lot else. Got through medical school, went to residency in Buffalo, western New York. Started off in internal medicine and clinical pharmacology. I had plans to go into research doing pharmaceutical research but realized I actually like taking care of patients, so decided to pursue clinical medicine. My first year of internal medicine. You have a code at the hospital where somebody's not doing well, so it's all hands on deck, everybody to somebody's room. Either a patient's arrested or is about to arrest. There are all these people that would walk in wearing pajamas or surgical scrubs and almost annoyed and bored. Everybody else is flipping out there's med students puking in the corner.
Speaker 3:They're so nervous. And here's these couple of guys and girls that walk in and put tubes in the trachea lines in handle the nastiest drugs we use in medicine like it was no business and, with a yawn, walk out of the room and be done with it. I'm like I want to do that that looks awesome.
Speaker 3:Talked to a few people and said, yeah, you can do critical care and pain management all in one field. I'm like there's one field that does the two things that I enjoy the most in medicine. Absolutely, sign me up. So I did my training here in Western New York after my residency, ended up at Erie County Medical Center doing trauma care and been there ever since. Athletic journey, like I said, track and field in high school, got into weightlifting in college, mostly got out of it medical school, got back into it in residency, because it's either that or jump off a cliff.
Speaker 1:Because it's just outrageously busy.
Speaker 3:So the harder I beat my body, I realized, the quieter the voices in my head became. So got afterlifting in residency, did that for a few years, competed a bit in powerlifting and eventually just got tired of aching, as we talked about earlier. This was back in the day where you just put more weight in the bar day after day, push, push. There was no conjugate back then, there was no internet to learn new things, none of that, and we just tortured ourselves you had muscle and fitness magazine and the encyclopedia of bodybuilding.
Speaker 1:What more did you need? We did, and those were absolutely horrible.
Speaker 3:If you were looking for strength, yeah, they were great for hypertrophy, but, um, if you were trying to put heavy weight in the bar and followed those it was, it was awful.
Speaker 1:Well, that's I did the same thing, and that's when I transitioned to subscribing to powerlifting usa yep yep, and the problem with those programs is that they were like these elite lifters and all they did was ask oh so what do you do, bull stewart? And like I followed his deadlift program and my shoulders mostly stayed attached to my body, but basically barely, yeah yeah, yeah, I can remember in school.
Speaker 2:You know high school still walking around carrying the muscle and fitness because you waited every month you got it yeah that hit the mailbox, you grabbed it and you I mean cover to cover, so it's on top of it. I walk into a class and don't remember much about high school. One of the teachers looks at me and goes you think you're going to look like that? I look at him and said, yeah, thinking back, not a chance.
Speaker 1:Did you go to, like Crush your Dreams University, or what I mean that? Oh no, that was high school.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's pretty harsh. He was a Latin instructor, okay, so he just figured if I'm gonna punish your mind, I'm gonna wreck your spirit too nice hey, you know, doc, I give you credit because my mom worked her way up to be an anesthesiology tech at st joe's and she started I forget where she was like a housewife, that my father had a heart attack and she needed to go back to work and she literally started in like the sterilization csr space.
Speaker 1:And this one anesthesiologist loved her attention to detail so she would set up all his trays and his crash carts. Your profession is scary af because the margin. There is no margin of error. There's literally no margin of error. You have no margin of error. There's a.
Speaker 3:There's a lot of expressions, but uh, one I love is that no field of medicine can kill a patient faster than anesthesia, yeah and, uh, maybe the cardiologists can give us a run. But that, that's very true, yeah what I'm over here dying.
Speaker 2:Nobody can kill anybody quicker than us. Well, you know, if you look at my daily routine, yes, I, I multiple times a day.
Speaker 3:Deliver the exact same medications that are used in a lethal injection no, I get it.
Speaker 2:And if I?
Speaker 3:just stopped, or everyone had a stroke. That would be a lethal injection. And then you do what you do to rescue, and and on with it. But you know one man's anxiety and holy shit, sorry, I'll pay the buck. There is another man's excitement and fascination, so does that so clearly?
Speaker 1:professionally, your attention to detail is off the chart. Does that carry into your training, Are you like?
Speaker 3:this guy I know, scott Pike. There are two ways to approach really any medicine, but anesthesiology really highlights it. You can be all right, for instance, if we're on a trauma call for an evening, you can have your operating room set up with everything that you could possibly need and it is organized and it is right in front of you and it's ready to go. Or you can be like me that settles in and like, okay, we need a minimum amount of stuff, yeah, but we know what we're doing and we know where everything is and we'll figure it out. I am much more than we'll figure it out and I don't know that one's any better than the other. We have really good guys and gals that do either one and they both seem to work yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 1:that's cool. I just wondered if, how? I guess the hidden question was how anal are you to your training? Not at all. Yeah, well, it works because you are an adorable young man.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, doc run away I hear a spot opening underneath his bed.
Speaker 3:I'm an old man, I can't. It's my fate if that's the way it ends up.
Speaker 1:Doc, how old are you? 55.
Speaker 2:Okay, so he's appropriately young and got me beat by a couple of months.
Speaker 1:Right, that's about it yeah, guys, and your birthdays, oh my god.
Speaker 2:I know, I know december 26th, december 26th, so you've talked a little bit about it and you know how really you know in correct me if I'm wrong. You're wrong. Fuck off your catharsis during residency to sort of calm, everything was getting back into the gym and hitting the weights, and we've all had those moments where you need something to sort of and the weights, and we've all had those moments where you need something to sort of.
Speaker 2:I love that the term use just killed the voices in my head, or quieted and down enough that you could get through it.
Speaker 2:You know um you and I met probably three, four years ago, I think yeah, about that I think, we, you know, maybe bumped into each other once at iron and stone, but then, you know, you come every now and then to work out at the compound because we've got some some pretty neat toys there and whatnot. So talk to us a little bit about the strongman side of things and then we're going to sort of transition into the the bro science of stuff. Sure, because I gotta tell you folks, doc and I went to colorado last year and you know we sort of trained to live in hell out of ourselves getting ready for it. You think, colorado, oh, it's gonna be nice, it's gonna be cool. It was like 95 degrees, it was so hot.
Speaker 2:But I mean one of the events and we talked about the circus dumbbell when we did a recap of llb2 this year. You know that that sort of giant beach ball looking type of thing, doc was throwing weight around and I'm like Jesus, I got to get to that weight and he's just powering through it, this man, as you said, this cute little guy is strong as new.
Speaker 2:I mean, yeah, your strength truly, and I'm saying that seriously.
Speaker 1:Are you sure he doesn't owe you money? I?
Speaker 3:feel like he owes you money, and I'm saying that seriously. Are you sure he doesn't owe you money? I feel like he owes you money.
Speaker 2:He's just trying to knock it down. Yeah, couple cents, man Couple cents each time.
Speaker 2:Your strength is phenomenal, so talk to us a little bit about how you. I mean, because you are not physically a large person, nope, your body weight's what? Under 200? Buck 90, yeah, yeah, under 200 pounds and you're moving around weights that. Your weight class at nats last year was the 220, because that was the lightest yep old guy weight, or middle old guy, because we're the middle guys. So he's throwing around weights the guys that might show up there at just 220 pounds, and as soon as they step off the scale, they inhale 15 pounds of food yeah, so the guy who won trains at 230?
Speaker 1:yeah, and got down under, cut down to 220.
Speaker 3:I'm like jesus, I'm giving up 40 pounds of this guy yeah, before you even walk on the field yeah, I know how that feels.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you give up a lot more than 40 pounds to me yeah, I do give you a doc before we get into.
Speaker 1:Were you always? Were you always strong? Are you naturally strong?
Speaker 3:No, I am naturally nothing. I take that back when I was a kid. I was quick, I could run quickly, but I used to have this poster on my wall at work that said my obsessions make my work better, but my life harder.
Speaker 1:And the other poster next to it was that anything worth doing is worth overdoing no and that's just the way I mean.
Speaker 3:When I was into my long distance cycling and marathoning, I was not a distance runner but too old to sprint anymore, so I just beat the hell out of myself doing it.
Speaker 1:And same with the strength sports I give you credit because when people hit that fork in the road where they're, you know I can't sprint anymore. 60% of them just hit the couch. Yeah, start eating Cheetos.
Speaker 3:Not so much, thank you, I almost started.
Speaker 1:I almost brought it up, right? Yeah, it'll come up again. But yeah, I give you credit just for finding another outlet, because I think that's sort of a recurring theme on the podcast. Absolutely, definitely, that's sort of a recurring theme on the podcast. Absolutely. I mean, I haven't done the same sport for more than a block of 10 years.
Speaker 2:Dude, how many times have we pivoted in the six, seven years we've known each other?
Speaker 3:You've pivoted two or three times the time I've known you, yeah, exactly. But I believe the children are our future. That is essential.
Speaker 2:Teach them well and let them lead the way.
Speaker 3:Thanks, oh, jesus Christ all and let them lead the way. Thanks, oh, jesus christ, I know no. Scott and john, yeah, yeah, okay, look at that. So, um, I got back in the casual lifting in my late 30s and one of my residents, who was this little fellow from india weighed about 140 pounds, said I lift with these guys up in the north towns and we do some interesting stuff. You want to join us? So that was at Mike Gil's old place.
Speaker 3:And I show up there. You know I'd been squatting and and pulling and pressing and whatever on my own doing, okay, and I walk in there and there are I don't know two dozen guys and girls. Dozen guys and girls and I later found out probably four national champions um another two or three.
Speaker 3:Uh, unbelievably, they were elite college athletes that have now pivoted into this sport and it was intense for probably two years yeah, for probably two years, every saturday I would drive up there and I was genuinely nervous pulling into that parking lot because you were either, did not want to be the first guy to drop off to the woman's platform or you did not want to tear your hamstring off your ass and one of those two things would happen with more regularity than it probably should.
Speaker 2:So let me jump in here and tell you a real quick cute story about you. There's a cute story about me here we go, I know right so when I think it was two places after gills, when it was in clarence, in the that sort of strip garage place, john was going there a few times and he's working out and he finishes his workout and he's about to clear the bar and up comes Billy.
Speaker 1:You know, billy.
Speaker 2:And there's Disney princesses playing on the radio and the girls are having their fun. And Billy says are you done? John says yeah, let me clear the bar for you, she goes.
Speaker 1:No, we'll start there. Yeah, literally, yeah, literally.
Speaker 2:So that proves your point.
Speaker 1:Yep, they all refer to that as Disney princess night. They're all singing disney songs as they're like out dead lifting me billy's push pressing like twice what I can push press on a log. She is just and she's such a sweet person and I'm like I am drowning in this silly little gym, like the first time I walked in an iron stone was a saturday event day, yeah and you know who do I meet first is tony right, unassuming not gigantic dude who's like your size yeah, maybe a little bit.
Speaker 3:He's got like 20 pounds on yeah and is absurdly strong.
Speaker 1:Oh, my god, and flexible and dynamically strong and all of it. And I'm thinking because I walked in there. Like you know, I'm an athlete. I can do this, you're an athletic supporter.
Speaker 3:Yeah, basically, I remember my first day at gill's first day of strongman, we were doing stones and, uh, one of the women loads her stones. I'm kind of, you know, hanging back, I'm the new guy, whatever. She starts walking toward me and she passes out as she's like right in front of me. No, and I reach out. She's a little thing. I catch her in my arms. So I am standing there with this woman who, I don't know it passed out my arm.
Speaker 3:I look around and I catch a couple people's eyes. I'm like uh, and they look like ah, she'll be fine and just carry on and fortunately, at that time she uh started to come to. I'm like so this is how this goes. Yeah, I, I am in, I am in.
Speaker 2:Well, the old poop cross.
Speaker 3:It's now at East Ave.
Speaker 2:We have one at the gym. Ours is 30 pounds heavier unloaded. Oh my God, we're at 196 pounds unloaded. But that's the thing. It's the old poop cross. You pick the damn thing up and, because of where it sits, if you're not vacated, you will be will be.
Speaker 1:Ladies and gentlemen, let's describe the poop cross for a second. Oh yeah, so the poop cross looks a lot like a bollard that you would tie a battleship to. It's a column with two little side arms and you carry it like zurcher style yeah, up and across your chest, yes, but where it sits, yes.
Speaker 2:Unless you've got a large, bulbous stomach, it sits right on the diaphragm and you can't breathe. It's not like you carry it five feet.
Speaker 3:You have to carry it the length and back and then you're okay, and it hangs down between your thighs, so you kind of have to widen your stance, which decreases your pucker factor capacity.
Speaker 1:It is actually the first thing that Eric asked me to do at Ironstone. He's like oh, why don't you try this, Not knowing? Well the reason why it's referred to as a poop cross is that it's got three large poop emoji stickers on it and I asked why are they? He goes oh, three people didn't make it, yeah.
Speaker 3:So there's that after your first time. Yeah, back to me. So, uh, I was in. I, I think I did my first competition four or five months later, which I mean I won handily, being the oldest guy by 15 years novice. There were six or seven guys in the class, I think. But I was completely hooked and psychotically pursued that sport up until very recently, still love to train it. I train strong men one day a week, but I use the word psychotically intentionally. It was I'm 55 years old and it's time to start training like a grown man instead of a teenage or savage?
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, was that a shot at the two hosts that are at the other?
Speaker 1:No, no, no, I think it was you. I've never really tried. I might be, psychotic, but I don't know if I've ever trained psychotic.
Speaker 3:I'm going to make an assumption, scott, from what I've spoken with you over the years, that you have a proper mental place. I don't. I either I'm either. I'm shocked where I am now, which is exercising for health and longevity, because I've never been here before. I go all in a million miles an hour. You know, on a strong man Saturday, or back when I was running and cycling, I'd be out of the house cycling, in particular at five, 30 in the morning on a Saturday. She won't see me till two, two, 30 in the afternoon, till I'm home, fed, showered, and there comes a point in time where that gets a little yeah, a little much.
Speaker 1:So I have a friend that trained for and did a couple iron men and he stopped, not so much because it was you know he needed to stop, but it was he had little kids yeah and saturday he was just. It was his long day and he was gone well the, the mantra and iron man.
Speaker 3:There are three phases of life. There's family, iron man and work. Yeah, pick two, yeah exactly and it really. I mean it's, it's, almost it's we say it as a joke, but it's true that you really cannot have all three.
Speaker 2:I believe, and I mean the hours that that requires is is outrageous the advantage there is an advantage with doing the strongman stuff is you can destroy yourself in two hours. Absolutely do it right. I mean, I can remember when you and I were training for last year there was one you know it was a strongman saturday and tony was there and he's I mean he's his knowledge is encyclopedic with what he you're doing this wrong. Turn your foot this way. You know I want you to do this, that whatever, whatever. So you and I knowing we've got this show at that point it was early summer, so maybe two months out, something like that we both we had 400 ish pounds on a barbell and it was you and me going back and forth doing sets of five. So to give you the comparison, I'm 300 pounds. You know that point may be a little bit lighter, but it's 300 pounds. You're under two and I mean we're killing ourselves going back and forth.
Speaker 2:That was fun and it was funny. Because you turn around and tony says you guys are a bunch of jerks. Yeah, it's like these two over here are doing. You know it ended up it was supposed to be a five by five. It ended up being like a 10 by five or something stupid, with 400 pound deadlifts and you know it ended. It was supposed to be a five by five, it ended up being like a 10 by five or so stupid, with 400 pound deadlifts. And you know it's my turn, your turn, my turn, your turn. And it was almost who's gonna pass out first? I'm like jesus, I'm not gonna let this midget just destroy me. I'm 100 pounds more than he is. If this happens, I'm gonna go start eating cheetos not a sponsor.
Speaker 1:All right, we're gonna move away from scott's like bro stories because no one cares. I fell asleep a little bit there. No, but I think. I think I don't want to gloss over. You said you're transitioning into more lifting for health lifting for health. So more I think I I will give you some perspective. I feel like your lifetime was was movement for health. I mean running, cycling, absolutely Great base like great base.
Speaker 2:But even the gas tank work that you did and I'm sorry to interrupt but the gas tank work that you did in strong man and weightlifting, right, you know that worked to sort of build that, that gas tank. So I agree with what you're saying.
Speaker 1:So I agree with what you're saying especially. I mean, you know if, if you're Hapthor Bjornsson, strong man is is a sport for you, but I think for the rest of us it is sort of it's aerobic.
Speaker 3:It is, oh my God.
Speaker 1:Well, it's interesting, you say that.
Speaker 3:I um, I was doing a strong man day in my garage the other day and I have my Apple watch on and I have a couple guys I work I work with who are interested in strongman, sure, and at one point in time I send them a screenshot of my apple watch that had a heart rate of 165 beats per minute. Yeah, well, at my age, that's the predicted max heart rate.
Speaker 2:They don't go no higher than that it does, but only for a really short time, or you need to see somebody if it stays up no higher than that it does, but only for a really short time or you need to see somebody if it stays up any higher than that.
Speaker 3:But my point being that many people think of Strongman kind of like powerlifting, where it's single short bursts, do something, sit for 15 minutes.
Speaker 1:The cardiopulmonary development for.
Speaker 3:Strongman is very intense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and in a good way. Yes, absolutely In a good way. I mean yes, absolutely in a good way. I would recommend it. Like it's hard to sell strong man because people immediately go to hapthor and stuff like that. But like scott and I basically met at iron and stone during the panda I mean that's when we really trained a lot together, iron stone during the pandemic, three times a week and our training was literally I mean because you know that place was a hallway- it was tiny we would superset four or five movements, go from one to another, and they were all heavy and repetitive it was like hit training.
Speaker 2:Yeah, very much so intensity training the.
Speaker 3:I think the fundamental advantage of Strongman is, yes, the cardio, because it's time-based. But the conjugate program has always gotten such press, if you will, because you're always varying the lift. That was the big thing. That you'll never do a barbell back squat again for months. You'll do a front squat the next day or a safety squat bar, and that's the big plus of this program. Well, that's built into strongman. I mean, you never have to do the same lift. There's how many implements can you do an overhead press with?
Speaker 3:in strongman or a load or a carry, and I think that all lends to the longevity of a training for health sport. You're constantly varying the stresses.
Speaker 2:Well, you bring that up and you know you've got peter t out there and his idea of basically living for longevity, yeah, and one of the things because he talks about low intensity cardiovascular work. So it could be an easy cycle, it could be, you know, a walk, a faster, but a walk. But then he also talks about that interval training, that high-intensity weightlifting. So talk to us a little bit about that. Where's the medical side of that?
Speaker 3:Well, I mean, I was talking to you guys earlier. I just finished Dr B's listening to that podcast and there's some deep science and biochemistry there, but I I'm I'm an anesthesiologist. We're not solving world hunger up at the head of the bed. I need answers now and it's we kind of keep it simple as Dr Atiyah goes on and on with the it's pretty simple diet. Don't eat like that fat kid from middle school that's I was that fat kid in middle school.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I feel seen, I was too right?
Speaker 3:no, I was too I played offensive tackle in little loop football oh nice, nice um, and the movement part.
Speaker 3:And yes, the more the better, the more variety the better, the more intensity the better. But, as you guys frequently say, if it's just going for a walk, that matters. Yes, if you can crush a marathon or go for a walk backwards or run a marathon backwards, the more variety the better it will, the less it will destroy you going forward and the more it will serve you. I have a life goal, my life, and I'm actually quite serious of this I want to own the world record in the deadlift in the over 80 class. And they don't even. They don't even. They don't even have a weight division at that nice age. But what is it? Is there a current record? The? It's challenging to find because it's a little different in different places but it's like mid 400s, oh Jesus.
Speaker 3:Well, I'll tell you a year or two ago. I'm like you know, 80s a ways away. I'm 55 now. Maybe we'll go for the over 70. So I go looking that one up and for God's sake, the guy had just recently said it, at 72 years old, and it like 10 off of what I'm currently lifting. It was like 545 pounds or something like that was it albert? Beckles jesus I. I don't remember his name, but it was uh like jesus man.
Speaker 1:I guess I will wait for 80 well, it's funny because when I turned 40 I did master's track and field and I would go to the national championship and you would see, like you glance across the track and you'd see a sprint final and one guy would be, you know, 80, farther than everybody else, and it's like what is that? Oh, there's bud johnson, the 1964 olympic silver medal. I mean, yeah, these people are hanging on that kind of stuff but I did get to see the 90-plus pole vault record set.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry. Could you say that again, please? Yeah, oh my God. And.
Speaker 1:I got to say so. You've all seen a high jump pad right, so I don't know what is it Three feet off the ground yeah, two, three feet. The bar was probably another six inches above that. I could do that, but that's just me falling forward that guy lumbered down, pulled himself up on a pole, pushed himself off and fell over that bar. And I mean there were probably 2,000 people at this meet, I bet they cried Exploded.
Speaker 1:And that is like the best goal I think I've ever heard, because it speaks to so many things.
Speaker 3:I want to stay strong.
Speaker 1:Exactly, I want to be able to move at 80. I love that goal. I'm going to send an 80 year old goal. I'm going to do the doc goal the other side of that that I'm contemplating now.
Speaker 3:I can't go to strong man nationals every year between now and then and still have a skeleton that will allow that. Oh, no, yeah. So I'm starting to realize all right, if you're serious about that goal, the smart thing is you have to throttle back to some degree. You still get after it.
Speaker 1:I don't ever want anyone thinking that?
Speaker 3:No, because I think you guys have spoken to this. The idea that we should back off as we age, I think is categorically wrong. I think in certain respects you have to go harder the older you get, but more wisely, and I think At think it speaks to that at some point too.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, I listen to your body, you know, and that's what it is.
Speaker 1:You've got to go wiser yeah, I think I think what. I think, what you just said, if I heard you correctly, is basically you only have so many peaks in you still, and if you're trying to hit these high level meets in and out I mean, first of all, at anylevel sport you're exposing yourself to the edges of your performance. Therefore, you're exposing yourself to injury. Oh, 100%.
Speaker 1:You just are Like if you're really getting after it and you aren't the kind of person with the mental blocks on ooh, that hurts. I should stop. I mean, you have the potential for injury. I am going to set a doc 80 goal.
Speaker 2:I don't know what it is I want you to set the deadlift goal, because that way, two years later, doc's gonna whip that ass on you because he's younger than you are and he will crush your deadlift, shatter your dreams, wow are we are.
Speaker 1:We hearing how supportive my training partners yeah, that's perfect. You should, you should, you should work the next 30 years so that the guy sitting on the couch can break it three years later.
Speaker 3:Thanks, thanks, jesus well, the getting to the, the medicine of the medicine of meathead. Um, I live in this wonderful situation where I am I mean, I'm knowledgeable and wise about medicine, anesthesiology and I understand for a period of time I was reading more strength and conditioning literature than I was my medical literature. So when I'm in the gym I can talk easy medicine and sound really, really smart, but when I'm at the hospital I can talk real low level meathead stuff and everybody in the world, I think, thinks that physicians know this stuff.
Speaker 3:They do not the knowledge of your average physician of exercise, particularly strength and conditioning, is horrific. I have a partner who is an incredibly fit guy, played football at Villanova for a period of time and I mean just gets after it. And I was talking one day about some aspect of training and I changed the grip on my bench press or something like that, and he says, uh, what do you mean? I go well, you know, you know, vary the workout, he goes well, I, I do the same thing. So this is a guy who's in his 40s who is still doing the standard bench press, three sets of 10, pull down some rows day in and day out. And this is a physician who went to a college in an elite athletic department and he is not unusual. So it's terribly unfortunate, but getting exercise and fitness knowledge from a physician is a losing game.
Speaker 1:I've had that surprise. I've clearly had no, it doesn't not at all game. I've had that's. I've clearly no, it doesn't not at all because I've had. I've had two doctors tell me you know you should stop. Yeah, oh yeah they've probably seen you left and I know they didn't say you should do better, they should I should stop, or maybe I should.
Speaker 1:They didn't say I should give up that would have been but no, I mean, they're literally out there, like you, you know, you're of an age where and I'm like, hey, you know, and I don't, based on everything I read skeletal muscle, bone density, leg strength, grip strength, all those things that are indicators of getting feeble and getting strapped in a chair, nope, not for me.
Speaker 2:Well, Ode Haugen. Yeah, what do you think of Ode? He's in his mid seventies, yeah, I mean, and the man still his grip strength.
Speaker 3:Jesus, it's like a vice grip. Yeah, so I mean no, no. I remember there was a great story that I hope I never forget. There was a kid at iron and stone that uh had was doing personal training and his grandmother asked him if she would, if he would just help her out. She was getting weak, she couldn't do things. Grandmother's boyfriend tagged along and they were coming to the gym. They were, you know, they'd wear their granny sweatsuits.
Speaker 3:And they would do some deadlifts and carry some of the. You know they would carry literally dumbbells around for their heavy carries, but they did the work. One day it was February the boyfriend, who was well into his eighties, comes in he says I just have to tell you it was seemed trivial, but I can't stop thinking about it. I was walking out to my car the other day and I'm about, I'm about to open the door of my car and I noticed my foot slipped on some ice, slipped a couple inches. I caught it, opened the door, got in my car and I was immediately struck by the idea that if I hadn't been doing what we've been doing, that could have been a life-altering event.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that would have been a hip or something.
Speaker 3:And there's a lot of truth to that. I have another life goal when I do retire. I'd like to open a silver strength training because senior citizens and teenagers are the easiest groups to possibly train, because seniors are in such terrible shape in this country that literally doing chair squats 10 times a day. And then the data has shown that some of these trivial maneuvers remarkably reduce hip fracture rates, spine fracture rates. It's real easy. You don't have to develop advanced uh protocols to train these right.
Speaker 1:But I mean and you probably see this too I mean, my mom worked in a hospital forever. She assumed that there was a pill or a surgery for all your problems. There wasn't. You didn't train to avoid your problems, you just went blindly forward and, yep, if something happened, you got it stitched back together or took a pill well, that was 60s and 70s mentality yeah, yeah so it still is.
Speaker 3:Yeah, really, we, that, you, you, you, gentlemen, live, your. The people listening to this podcast are the top one percenters. The, the average public does not appreciate at all the value of even minimal physical training, right, uh, it's just not in their mindset. I mean, even despite all of the press and the media, we live in a world that the rest of society does not. Most people don't read Dr Atiyah or listen to his podcasts and such, and the capacity for change is huge in the senior population with even small, small training.
Speaker 2:So let's jump down 20 years. We got somebody in their 40s. They are on the couch, they're not doing anything. Cheetos, cheetos, oh yeah, they're not doing anything. I mean, john and I have always said just get up, go for a walk. We've got a friend who you know he's a strong guy, he's a little bit bigger, so we've sort of modified that a little bit for him into, you know, incorporating a sandbag and whatnot.
Speaker 1:But you've got a guy, let's say they come to. All right, dr Jensen, I know you're a doctor like a real doctor, not like me. Okay, you're welcome. I said nothing. I shot myself down before you had a freebie. That was a freebie. That was a freebie.
Speaker 2:But I also know that you're a weightlifter. You know you're strongly. You've done that thing if you were going to give me some advice. So you got a 40 year old man. 40 year old woman doesn't matter, I want to get better, I want to get healthier. They're a little overweight, you know a little bit of a paunch. What are you telling them to do? How are you starting them out?
Speaker 3:For me, the most important factor is you've got to enjoy it. There's got to be something about it that you look forward to, A big change. For me personally, probably in my early forties, there was this flip and I think it's happened for most of us. It went from I have to get to the gym, do I get to go to the gym? And you've got to find that something that I'm looking forward to, this I get to.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you may not be looking forward to burying yourself under a squat day that day, but there's got to be something that is rewarding to you in it. And once you find that, don't keep doing that over and over. The value of variety to keep it interesting, to keep you motivated and reduce injury risk I think doesn't get enough play. You can only do so many squats. You can only run so many miles. Eventually, the adaptation to any activity is going to is going to fall away. The likelihood of injury goes up and I think the the death knell for us as we age, as you get bored with it, because there's a lot of stuff for us to do and we can very easily go on to back to sitting on the couch or what have you.
Speaker 1:Well, well, god forbid, you could start playing pickleball, hey, no why not? Hey sounds fun I know it is fun, leave me alone, big meanie. No, but to your point it, and we've said this first of all, it doesn't have to be just the gym. I mean, it doesn't know anything but the other thing is, I think the only thing that you skipped on that I would add to your list is the social aspect.
Speaker 1:I think the more connections as you get older are important too, because I and I, you know I have no data on this, but I, you know, I've seen my parents and my parents, friends and people of that age and you lose touch and I mean, I think the social media thing that might be lesser in the future. But old people's lives shrink, they get small. My mom used to get excited that, you know, next tuesday she needed to go, uh, to the post office to get stamps. You know that was on her calendar and and that's not a way to live either, no, but we hit on that a lot, the community that sort of pulls into any sport.
Speaker 2:You know, and yes, I bust on pickleball with john, but the pickleball community, you know, the strongman community, when we go to these events and whereas, you know, hopefully some of the ilks of social media start disappearing and it sort of slows down a little bit. There's a lot of people that you know. Like, we didn't go to oktoberfest this year in columbus. A lot of our friends did so we talked to them, we see how they're doing so there there are some connections there. But, yeah, that social interaction, because part of it for these people are just going there to see their friends, like you know, like your mom, you said, going to the post office or something.
Speaker 1:Yep, all right. So here's the deal we're gonna. We're gonna stress test uh, doc's silver sneakers gym.
Speaker 2:Oh you can't use that, by the way, I just, I just copyrighted it great I am all rights reserved for uh silver sneakers gym to the Masters Athlete Survival.
Speaker 1:Camp. I just retired, I'm 63. I come to you, I am untrained. I am untrained. I, probably because I'm a guy, will say well, you know, in high school. I played left tackle and I was great.
Speaker 2:And you benched 700 pounds, paul.
Speaker 1:Where would you see a newbie start?
Speaker 3:Well, I, I'm a physician, I am not a trainer. No, I'm a physician, I am not a trainer.
Speaker 1:No, I know, I know this is more opinion.
Speaker 3:Yeah, my first move is let's find you a trainer, let's find you somebody who knows what they're doing.
Speaker 3:But the first question I ask is what do you like to do? Whether you like to run, or walk, or friends, what have you? It's crucial to do something that you're going to stick with, and if you hate it, you're not going to do it. That's a cool answer With me, I mean, I used to run a lot. I haven't run in probably a dozen years. I don't miss it for a second Cycling I miss. I've gotten back into cycling because I enjoyed it. There are pieces of equipment at my home that I hated and I've never touched again. There are pieces of equipment that I haven't touched in 10 years.
Speaker 3:I'm like oh yeah, I used to like doing that and I'll pick it up and use it. You got to find something, and a lot of times I actually have a partner right now who's been losing weight, getting in shape, and ask me exactly this question what do you want to do? And maybe just showing somebody the gym and making it fun? Yeah, I mean you, god love them.
Speaker 3:tony can make the gym a little unfun for some people can make the gym a little unfun for some people, but there are other people who absolutely love that and that would that's a rewarding kind of a day for them. You just have to find and that's what a good trainer does. They find what works for a certain person and you can make anybody do any activity if you find how to make it enjoyable. And I don't think it's the activity so much, I think it's establishing the environment, like you said, with friends. I may hate running, but if I got a bunch of guys and girls that want to go for a run, I will gladly get myself in shape to go do that, cause that makes it something made it enjoyable.
Speaker 2:So would you advocate more again going to the this sort of silver sneakers thing more?
Speaker 3:group type of training. Yeah, that's my plan. I mean, you will see it all the time. The grannies are the old guys who they're all sitting down at Denny's for breakfast. Old man breakfast is my favorite but my goal, my thought, would be let's drag them all to the gym, get a 45 minute break, a little sweat, then go to Denny's afterward and you've heard these old guys they can bust balls just as well.
Speaker 1:Is there somewhere I can sign up?
Speaker 2:for this gym because I'm in great oh my god, to train and then get a like moons over my hammy or a grand slam.
Speaker 1:I love that. Oh my god, I'm so excited.
Speaker 2:Exactly, all right, so we talked a little bit about the physical side of things. Talk to us a little bit, if you would, maybe, some of the mental side of lifting that you've seen over your career, as well as the diet, the nutrition, that type of stuff.
Speaker 3:Nutrition's a mess. I mean I will refer to Dr Atiyah's book again, the training and the exercise. I think we have pretty good data, pretty good evidence that this is good for you to do the diet part. We don't. Again, we know how not to eat. This is probably not a good way to eat and what I can't stress enough is 80% of Americans they don't even appreciate that that when you guys talk about your well, I need 200 grams of protein instead of 180, that's in the next universe from what most of Americans are talking about. I don't have a good answer for that. To be honest with you, the one thing I've always heard is the periphery of the grocery store, that you don't need to ever go down the aisles. I think there's a lot of truth, uh, a lot of validity is a useful technique for for eating. In that regard, um, dieticians they're uh, they have to subscribe to some old models and there's some of the. The standard recommendations, from modern diet to dietetics training sometimes are a little uh difficult to swallow, if you will.
Speaker 1:Uh pun intended.
Speaker 3:Yes, absolutely uh the mindset.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean we can go a long way in that regard this is where I was going to circle back to this, because I didn't want to gloss over it. So you said you ran marathons yeah yeah, what so I? I was collegiate track and field. I always wondered why we would go out drinking friday night and half my friends would wake up saturday morning and go run a man easy, 10 miler, yeah. So when you're running a marathon, what the hell is going on in your head?
Speaker 3:it is.
Speaker 1:It is a, that is a long time for me to be in my experience and I know my voice in my head would be going I gotta pee, we should stop. Hey, look at that, there's a bird.
Speaker 3:Oh wow, oh, my feet hurt, oh, my feet still hurt, yeah eventually the pain overtakes anything else, yeah, so there's, uh, there's a study from many, many years ago that they did echoes of marathon runners hearts as they they cross the finish line. So the average person, when your heart beats, you pump out about 60% of the blood in your heart before that beat is over, or relaxes.
Speaker 3:Severe heart failure, Like if I see a patient who has a 20% or less ejection fraction, it's called this is going to be a challenging case. Well, the average ejection fraction of marathon runners when they cross the line was about 20%. Really, the physiologic debility that that I mean it comes back very quickly within a couple hours afterward, but it is not good for you Now, is that offset with the trip hammer like beats per minute that's moving that 20% often Good question.
Speaker 1:Or is it just the fact that they're just essentially dying?
Speaker 3:Your heart's giving up. Yeah, it's like dude, I'm not going for it. This is all I can do anymore.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:I'm doing the best I can to pump as much blood to your muscles as required. The first marathon I ever ran I vividly remember was Rochester. It was very, very flat. You ran along the canal. Thank God it was flat. So every mile you're doing you'll check your watch.
Speaker 3:This was probably a dozen years ago, so it was just a basic watch. Okay, I'm running this many miles per minute, I'm on pace, I'm on pace and you'd be okay, I'm running this many miles per minute, I'm on pace. I'm on pace About mile 20,. I can vividly remember. I can't do this math anymore. I tried. Well, your brain's just going.
Speaker 1:Your brain was not working.
Speaker 3:I could not calculate my pace. And about the 22 mile mark, and that first one I remember and someone recommended this to me, I vividly remember keep your head over your feet, just keep your head over your feet.
Speaker 1:That's literally your swing thought right then that was the only thing going through my head.
Speaker 3:And follow somebody in front of you and you'll get across the line. But the fascinating. I remember that marathon too. I remember crossing the finish line and I had a nice watch at the time that did a calorie count.
Speaker 3:Okay line and I had a a nice watch at the time that did a calorie count okay from the finish line in rochester till the time I got home. So a 90 minute drive, little in a little stop at this concession. Thereafter I had eaten as many calories as I burned. Oh yeah, running that marathon and that was very telling to me in that you cannot exercise away a bad diet.
Speaker 2:You can't no, exactly.
Speaker 3:The amount of calories that we are able to jam down our throats in the current food environment is unbelievable.
Speaker 2:Well, you think about it, People say oh, have 10 almonds, christ, 10 almonds fits. You know, you don't even notice it in your head.
Speaker 3:I could have them stuck in my gums ten almonds and not even know it.
Speaker 2:You know somebody said something about diet to me at work, where you know I was talking to the financial aid folks, and they said, well, how much protein do you eat? And I'm like for me all of it a cow, you know I mean, I said, I'm probably somewhere in that three, four hundred gram range.
Speaker 2:God man because it's well. That seems impossible to me. Have you seen me eat, you know? I mean, it's like the line from animal house. Just keep your fingers off the table, otherwise they'll be, you know, just just inhaled. But that's the thing, it's. The amount of food that you can jam down your throat is astronomical anymore. Go get a Big Mac. There's a thousand calories, 1200 calories.
Speaker 1:I, I. I gotta say I think of all the things we've solved with modern medicine and just exercise, physiology and just biochemistry. I still think we're in the dark ages when it comes to food and caloric and all that. Because so I. I wear a CGM, I'm a type 2 diabetic.
Speaker 1:The result, I think I think what I've come to the conclusion is that it's very personal. I mean, in the grand scheme of things, don't eat 20 big macs for lunch, but I exercise. My blood sugar goes up. Yeah, I am. Uh, I have learned that coffee crisp, um candy bar in the universe, doesn't really affect my blood sugar. You are so lucky because you you not really, I mean it blips, but it's not.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but if I eat I don't know let's say, a cup of white rice, it will peg my blood sugar for 24 hours. It is so, so detrimental.
Speaker 3:I for me, I agree. I think the exercise and fitness. I think we got a pretty good model. Yeah, the diet is still a mess. The best you can do is eat. You know what you should eat for the most part, and for somebody that knows that a tomato is a problem, you have no idea how these are not problems for most americans, right?
Speaker 1:all right, or at least they're not considering them being probably correct.
Speaker 3:Stop eating the bowl of ice cream, and maybe tomato will be.
Speaker 1:We'll deal with that tomorrow well, I only got a cheese pizza dominoes, that's fine that's basically health food but all I do is just eat the cheese off.
Speaker 1:But I give john yeah no, I, I think the food thing is so much farther to go and you're right, I don't think the general public. Well, first of all, in this world of we'll go back to social media and you, like you were talking about trainers everybody's got an opinion. Yes, if you want to find someone out there that tells you that hot dogs are death, you can find someone that'll say you should probably have five hot dogs a day because of X and Y and Z. I think you can support that with any lunacy that you can think of off the top of your head. The average person or you know how do they navigate those waters. I don't even you know.
Speaker 2:When we were growing up in the 70s. Don't eat eggs.
Speaker 1:Don't eat eggs. Don't eat eggs and butter is it the worst butter?
Speaker 2:don't eat the yolks of eggs. Oh my god. Get just egg whites now, you're told, eat the whole damn egg. Yeah, you know. You know the fat that's in the yolk, that's what you need, yeah, so I mean just something like that, you know the.
Speaker 3:A problem we run into in the, the connected social media age, though, is this you know science is a growth. You, you think, you know what. What you know, you go with it, you test it, you learn more, you change, you advance. We have the pandemic did not help this at all. No, we have lost the idea that what I say today is not the end. All be all that, it may change, and diet is very much that way. God bless you.
Speaker 1:We don't know yeah, god bless you. For some reason everybody, because I'm, I've been a career scientist and for some reason, all of a sudden, science needs to have the answer. And if, for some reason, new data comes out and you think your answer has to change, well, you were lying to us, right? Or intentionally lied to like no, that's the way science works. I mean you test every hypothesis forever until it's incontrovertible I mean even levitole, to say you push just past.
Speaker 1:Yeah, comfortable each time yeah, so yes, you're right, science, science took a beating when it came to it, sure did and it it still does in our, our realm, the.
Speaker 3:Yeah you know thou shalt do this rep scheme thou shalt eat this and the idea that this may change over time as we learn. More you get. You get the keyboard warriors that come out and just lambaste. You know you're wrong and you can't eat the yolks anymore. I can't come up with any of the modern examples.
Speaker 1:I think the best modern example.
Speaker 3:supplementation oh God yeah.
Speaker 2:Take this.
Speaker 1:This works? Yeah, no, it doesn't.
Speaker 3:Take this, it works. Oh god, yeah, sure, take this, this works. Yeah, no, it doesn't take this, it works. What we've we've done is, for every drug that's successfully released onto the market I forget the number, there are something like 14 or 40, I don't remember that don't make it to the market. Every single one of those drugs had a pretty good story behind it, like, okay, we understand this enzyme system, we understand this pathway, this drug interferes and this, my God, this is a lock, this is going to cure whatever. Well, like you play football, because the stats don't tell everything, you have to actually study it in humanity.
Speaker 3:And that's what a drug company does. You bring it to stage three trials. They're like well, it sounded, stage three trials and like well, it sounded like a good idea, but it just didn't work. In the bro science supplement world, nobody cares about that actual study. If someone's got a pretty good, if you can tell that story.
Speaker 3:If you can tell the story, well you know, the iron will will oxidize from it and this is going to work. Well, good story. But that's why we actually test it in in people to see if it actually works, because we do not understand the mechanism of human physiology anywhere close to as well as we think we do.
Speaker 3:Oh, and there's always some factor that's going to come in and we learn from that. And the next time we want to affect this system and a new drug comes along, we've learned from the, the prior trial, but a lot of the bro science, uh, that we hear today and I you know bro science, real science too. If the mechanism sounds good, this must work and therefore I'm going to take this, this supplement. Well, as you said, it really doesn't do anything right or doc, if the right person says it works. That's huge.
Speaker 2:You get Mitch Hooper, half Thor. You get Arnold Schwarzenegger who gets up there and says I think this, it must be great. Even though he's never taken it in his life.
Speaker 3:There's a certain green powder supplement out there that has made literally billions of dollars. That has almost nothing in it, but they spent a gazillion dollars on it Everybody advertises. I'm familiar with what you're talking about astronomical amount of powder and there's a, there's a gentleman who took data from multiple different sources the company website, the bag other. It was really impressive, yeah, and was able to calculate, because that company will not tell you how much of anything is actually, of course.
Speaker 1:I was able to calculate every.
Speaker 3:Blend right and it's almost non-existent. They were inconsequential amounts of almost anything. I mean, it is, it's a little scoop, um, so the power of the, of the celebrity, yeah, was huge.
Speaker 1:Unfortunately, it takes people away from looking for what may actually make a difference, especially for them, yeah yeah right, what muddies the water more is the placebo effect, absolutely there definitely is a percentage of human beings that, in taking something like that green, unnamed greens powder who are wholeheartedly believe they may see an effect, because they're pushing themselves a little harder.
Speaker 2:I don't know, you know it's the the to go to your you know your professional world. It's the idea of giving somebody an aspirin and telling them that it is the most powerful drug we can give you right now.
Speaker 3:Right, you know, it's that mental, I will be, I'm all for that. If you take said green powder and that makes you train a little harder, eat a little better diet, and you're, you're, you lose weight, your numbers, knock yourself out, that's fantastic. However, we have to recognize it for what it actually is and I, as a medical professional, cannot promote that as something that's that we all should be pursuing, but that's a minority opinion, then. Well, if it worked for me, then it's got to work for everybody, and I'm going to try and push this on on everyone, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean that's, I mean that sort of drives a lot of the fitness industry, right, I don't even know how many billions of dollars the supplement industry generates. But good Lord.
Speaker 2:Think about when we were at the arnold last year no a hundred different you know supplement companies were there and, doc, there were kids. They were handing out cases of energy drink. There are kids as we're walking to the truck getting ready to leave on the last day, there are kids walking out with a case of you know joe schmoe energy drink in each hand oh, it wasn't me, it wasn't me no, no, you drank all yours I did amen, that's very true.
Speaker 2:But I mean that's the thing. It there's so much money out there and supplementation and energy drink in certain things, it's got to be right, but you know, let's do it.
Speaker 1:You know what I take away and it's years down the road. It may never happen. But so a couple of the booths at the arnold are those concierge medicine people, and they're thinly veiled, will help you take steroids correctly, correct. But the concept of concierge medicine, like where you know and I don't know, normal people can't afford that because their, their costs are expensive, cause I looked into it. Honestly. Um, I love that concept, the treating every, you know, the whole body, knowing the patient, knowing what works, what doesn't. I mean the modern doctor just doesn't have time for that. I love my, I love my. My GP is great, but he's got like 11 minutes with me and you know he's already thinking the next thing and and he's just. I mean I give him credit. He always remembers our conversations and he tries, but good Lord.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we could come back at any point in time and have a whole two hour podcast on the the woes of the American healthcare system, but you know, buyer beware. With regard to general health, that is not what we're. I mean, here's your diabetic meds, here's your blood pressure meds, and that's all because there are 70 more people literally that day waiting to see that guy or that girl and that's the system we work in. And to expect somebody to have a dietary conversation with a patient or a fitness, it just can fitness, they will.
Speaker 1:They will gladly hand you a printout of the food pyramid or something. Yeah, something.
Speaker 2:But I mean, who was the doctor you sent me to for my shoulder? Uh, binkley, binkley. You know the one thing I've got to say, though, because it was a sports medicine doctor, specialist in elbows and shoulders. He had that conversation. When you get the right physician be them a specialist in anesthesiology or a joint or something like that when they have that personal conversation with you listen, yeah, because they're taking number one. They're taking time where they could be, you know, doing the here's your pillow, here's your big back, push you down the chute, type of thing. They're giving you their expertise in something that's important to you, and that's the thing I mean, that's. I've been truly blessed, you know, with, like John said, with some of the folks that you've sort of steered me toward for some of the issues that I've had. If you find the right one, god don't lose them.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, all right, so you've been knocking out people professionally for a long time. Yeah, um, are we getting any healthier? Like, are you seeing less of any particular surgery? Are you seeing? Is there any improvement or more?
Speaker 3:apocryphal, and this is just apocryphal?
Speaker 1:I don't know. I'm sure there's stats. Are we getting healthier? Yeah, are you seeing? No, no less cardiac events less.
Speaker 3:I tell a story my my brother-in-law, who is a salt of the earth. I love the guy, but he's one of these guys I think we all know somebody like it who, but he's one of these guys, I think we all know somebody like it, who, everyone, somebody's always out trying to screw him. Yeah, and he saw a orthopedic surgeon colleague of mine and was kind of bitching one day about, um, uh, you know he, he was just trying to get my my payment for the day and really wasn't anything to do and there really wasn't anything to do.
Speaker 3:And I I said to him I go, my brother, like if you don't want what he's selling, he's got a line of people out the door, right someone else and there is no lack of uh, you will. The american public will not stop screwing itself up for a very long time. All three of my kids are going into medicine and I'm quite sure that they will have long, productive careers, because we are very good at making ourselves ill in this country For the very reasons we just talked about.
Speaker 3:Yeah you're not wrong. Yes, we've gotten much better with certain things. Our management of heart disease, coronary artery disease, has gotten a lot better. Have we behaviorally improved yet? Have we behaviorally improved yet? We don't smoke as much anymore, which is, I think, our diabetes care, personally, has gotten better. I think people understand what they're supposed to do. Unfortunately, we still have a lot of people like you, john, who I'm doing all the right things and what the hell.
Speaker 1:There's still some understanding that we just don't have. I complain every time I'm like I am not 500 pounds with purple ankles riding the cart in Walmart, I don't you know, I'm lean, I eat right Well now, walmart's not going to be a sponsor. Thanks, I'm sorry. Either is that. Greens power and they sponsor everybody. They sponsor a lot.
Speaker 3:They sponsor everybody.
Speaker 1:We're really not doing very well for ourselves.
Speaker 2:We'll find someone. Okay, fair enough, Maybe Pop-Tarts.
Speaker 3:I remember many years ago the T-Nation website sent out a survey.
Speaker 1:Oh, the T-Nation website nice.
Speaker 3:Of these 20 foods, what's your favorite post-compet?
Speaker 1:competition or after a race or whatever.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and 80 pop tarts was the number one. That was far and away the winner of what people wanted to binge on after their their event. I'm like, yep, count me in. Well, quest makes a pop. I want to thank you guys, by the way why, that the quest milkshake protein has become my favorite, my favorite protein I typically am a cheap. Put the powder in a shaky bottle and mix it up. But if I have to make a that, is.
Speaker 1:It's a treat and it's not cheap, but it is. Yeah, it's incredible yeah so we were.
Speaker 2:We were at some major festival and we went up because they were handing out food and we didn't bring food with us. So we walked up and it was it had to be in the olympics. It was you, me and mark. Yeah. So we walk up and they're giving us this and I said, yeah, you know, we've got the shakes before the lady goes, oh, try this. And then she gives us you know the little, the old uh cough syrup type size shot glass thing, right, like, oh, my god, this is good. Then, as we're walking, when she goes, come here, and she pushes all the new quest bars into my hand and I'm like stuffing them down my bag and you know like full things of the milkshake and whatnot.
Speaker 2:So I mean that's where we got turned on to him, but then when we did it on the podcast it was phenomenal, yeah there's far and away, but my wife is not as impressed, but I I don't think there's any.
Speaker 3:Like you guys said, this is in a different category. Yeah it's.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's not. It's not delicious junk food, it's still, but I mean it's got the protein if you have to yeah, but if you look at the, the spectrum of all the protein drinks we did and the other ones we didn't do, like that, like the pea protein that cup was sitting next to here.
Speaker 2:He found it like a week and a half later. Yeah, I think it started growing.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, that's a fun story. So scott left his red solo cup with a little bit of pea protein in it and I come in the studio and I'm like what the hell is that?
Speaker 2:now something that died anybody that's ever really taken a protein shake and left their shaker unclean you.
Speaker 1:You know kind of what that smell was, but this was 40 times worse and it had made this spider webby brown. I'm like I put. I put that in my body oh yeah, anything pea protein.
Speaker 3:it fascinates me that it is actually possible to taste that bad, oh it is. The only thing I've ever had that compares is spirulina powder back in the day. Back in the day it is a horrific tasting, and I'm sure you guys, like me, have jammed some absolutely awful protein shaker things down the throat so we can handle it.
Speaker 1:It's only in recent years that protein powders weren't kind of gross right, I mean when we did at least blah at worst protein bars yeah, we did that the first time.
Speaker 2:So we we're sitting out there in one of the wing studios and we had what? 15, 20 different? Protein bars, yeah sitting on the thing. So, being the scientist he had measured, weighed and cut them into perfect five grams Really has one realized that, oh yeah, oh has one does.
Speaker 2:So I walk in and I'm like dude, did you work today or what? So all of them, you know what I mean. Like you said, we grew up in the 70s and the 80s. We could choke down just about anything. When it comes to these protein bars, protein shakes, I put the one p protein bar in my mouth and he's just looking at it, it was the only thing that I went.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, spit out into my, you know, into another awful, it was so bad, do you? Uh, and I don't mean to insult the vegan protein listeners out there, but you are better man than me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the woman, yeah yeah, the eat real food. You know if it comes down, if you're vegan, eat real food.
Speaker 2:Well, I don't know. I eat vegan because the cow's a vegan all right, stop, you're gonna get us.
Speaker 1:Now we're gonna get hate mail. Do you supplement with anything, doc?
Speaker 3:uh, I do. I've used creatine for most of my life. I, you know the old, most studied, whatever yep it is. There's no downside to it. I'm I kind of keep my ear to the rail. Uh, with regard to some of the neurologic effects that some have been starting to talk about, yeah, but, recently yeah, recently they're talking about like high dose has actually neuroprotective. Yeah, the up in that 10 and 20, yeah like 20, yeah 20, I 20 grams I.
Speaker 1:I will tell everybody I will tell everybody listening that if john were to do 20 grams, john would have to do that on a commode for the balance like oh yeah, some people really struggle.
Speaker 3:Tony's favorite creatine and beta alanine oh yeah, I for the bitches I just started. Um, I mean, t Tony harped on beta alanine for years. Oh yeah, and I'm like, all right, I'll give this a shot. I definitely. If I'm going to have a day like a lot of times on Sunday, my wife and I will work out together in the morning and then we'll go for a bike ride, we'll walk the dog. It's going to be a long stretch.
Speaker 2:I, placebo or not, definitely feel like I have a prolonged energy when I take that before a workout, probably two months out before nationals. I'll start doing like the protein shakes I do for breakfast, because I'll make my own. I'll start putting a couple scoops of beta alanine in it, but two months out just to get it, you know, cycled into my system completely, so that's why I brought it up.
Speaker 3:No, you have. You have the bad tingling. Yeah, I have a little bit on my head. Last for five minutes and then it's gone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, see, one of the three of us decided to make his own pre-workout powder. I wonder who? That was mr scientist, so I I basically found I think it's ryan humiston did it, yep yeah and uh who was absolutely hilarious. Oh, I love that guy I, I, I love him because he is entertaining, but he's he's very science-based. Yes right. He teaches so much in a very entertaining way, so I made his pre-workout and I left out the beta alanine because I get the itches horrible.
Speaker 2:He's like he's. You know how bad I get he's twice.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, really yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I look. I look like I'm a druggie who needs the next fix. It's, I'm like, but to Ryan's credit, it's the most effective thing I've ever used.
Speaker 2:It's so good. It's good. Yeah, he gave me some and it's good. Yeah, it's really good. The only complaint that we've had is the caffeine.
Speaker 1:Oh, because I can't get powdered caffeine. So I basically have to crush pills, john, with his mortal and pestilence. It's hard to get powdered caffeine because you can weaponize powdered caffeine if you really want to. So yeah, so I'm crushing up pills, and because you know, it was an experiment. I'm not getting like a pill mill to powder them, but it's good from a supplement standpoint.
Speaker 3:Yeah, creatine, I think for what it does is well yeah it's so well studied and uh, basically side effect free, other than the gi stuff. Uh, caffeine is still the most effective ergogenic aid, if used properly or improperly or yeah, or the problem with caffeine is to really get the benefits from it, you can't be a regular user, right and also screwed. Yeah, exactly, I mean I drink coffee these days to avoid my heart from stopping. I mean, that's, that's right.
Speaker 2:Well, john drinks enough, the heart stops. Then we just pour another one good man.
Speaker 3:You and I get along well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, then I'm good I have two shelves in my fridge that are basically nothing but energy drink are you of uh scandinavian descent? No, I'm eastern european there's a why there was data. Did they tolerate?
Speaker 3:it. There's a a thought many years ago that there is actually some biological reason. I mean, the scandinavians in general drink astronomical amounts of coffee when allowed and there's there's some biological reasons that they may feel that that they actually require really, oh no, I will you are scared to deviate.
Speaker 2:I should lie.
Speaker 1:I I mean I will attest to the fact that there is a dampening effect on the effect of caffeine like I can pound a monster and be like oh okay yeah, I guess that did something but I mean when we go to places competitions, where they're handing them out for free.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is the man who had six in one day. Yeah, you know, in the rain has what?
Speaker 3:two 250 that's a lot of caffeine, so he's heading up towards 1500 yeah did.
Speaker 2:I set a world record that day no, no, no did I no, did I, you did not because I'm talking about the arnold, oh all right never mind. But yes, at the olympia, who had john setting world record at 71 minutes, that that's like we did make it quite a land that's your longest.
Speaker 1:I don't bring that up, that off. I'm pretty humble bullshit okay uh, anything else besides?
Speaker 3:uh, we could go on for no, but I mean, yeah, we're gonna have, we're gonna have you back oh you'll be back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you'll be back, damn you. So we have creatine, caffeine, beta alanine once in a while. Yeah, what else?
Speaker 3:I mean, people ask me that a lot. You know what supplements do you take, and my typical answer is creatine, caffeine, if you can use it properly.
Speaker 1:The beta alanine, but primarily hundreds of thousands of kilograms of iron, stone and steel. Yeah that I I take the most. Am I allowed to clap? Yeah, I guess that sounds good, clap yeah that's just the no see, I think I think for you, given what you do for a living, the the. The question under the question isn't you know, what do you take? It's more of the, what do you recommend?
Speaker 2:how have you?
Speaker 1:you know you have clearly filtered out a lot of stuff that is either questionable, pointless, right too expensive. I mean, I think that's the better answer is that you don't take this laundry list of things yes, well, it's the whole. You've got to take these bcaas, you got to have this type of protein, you know have you ever wanted to scream like when you're at a GNC and some worker is telling some 60-year-old soccer mom like she needs this? You want the little kid, answer Beets powder. Oh bullshit, yeah, right, exactly.
Speaker 3:Even the old hollowed protein intake there are. You know. There's two reasons that we talk about supplementing protein. One you need to have enough building block if you're going to build muscle and gentlemen, ladies who are listening at our age, that's single-digit grams of protein you need to eat to be able to support any additional muscle growth, so that 80 grams or I don't even know what it is anymore the usrda ain't bad right.
Speaker 3:Well, the other reason we talk about supplementing protein is for its ergogenic effects. As we know, high protein intake stimulates muscle growth and avoidance of the, the dreaded sarcopenia as we age. And we talk about that all the time. What never gets really discussed is that okay, I've taken a 50 gram protein shake to avoid sarcopenia. The stimulus for muscle growth that that protein shake induces is a fraction of what even a mild sweat resistance training session will induce. And we've kind of mashed all these together in the current parlance. When we talk about protein intake and why we're doing it and how beneficial it is and I know you're a big high protein intake guy, Scott, but why we're doing it, why all of us are doing it I've come to question lately and the the literature gets a little fuzzy as to what exactly we're looking for and why we're doing it?
Speaker 1:Did we just become best friends? No, I know why I ask is because I literally just listened to Dr Gabriel Lyon, who I have such a cyber crush on. She had a guest on talking about just that, like do we really need all this damn protein?
Speaker 1:yeah and it really kind of came down to it can't hurt and it's probably a good idea. Dot, dot, dot. Yeah, you need to move some weight. You need to move your body, you know, you need to create the demand for it to build stuff. It's not, it's not just like gluing a model together the old.
Speaker 3:The old mantra that muscle is built in the gym and fat is lost in the kitchen has really gotten muddied with this. The protein intake that people think that I'm going to keep lean muscle, I'm going to build lean muscle by eating this high protein.
Speaker 1:It really doesn't work you know what made me question the whole protein hypothesis was the other day I went to the grocery store and, uh, you know, I went in the back and I got something and I'm walking through the aisles and I walked down the cereal aisle and I haven't had a bowl of cereal in years and years and years and years, and I see all these familiar brands and I want to say 60 of them had the word protein on the box. You know, this isn't just Cheerios, this is protein.
Speaker 2:Cheerios.
Speaker 1:And you know it's got four or five grams of protein. I mean, as far as I know, cheerios has always had four or five grams and I have no idea. But I'm thinking, you know, when it transitioned from a good idea to a sales point, I feel like there's probably more going on. You start losing it, yeah, point. I feel like there's probably starting losing. Yeah, I feel like there's more going on.
Speaker 2:But, doc, to your point, you know, yeah, I'm a high protein guy, but this goes back to the discussion we had a little while ago. It's individualized because, like john, I'm a type two and I do it. I sort of keep myself somewhat in check that way. So you're right, we've got to look at what's the reason Right, because I know at 55, I'm not adding a hell of a lot of muscle. I can refine what I have and I had this conversation with Tony not too long ago and he said at this age you're going to have a little bit of strength. We're fighting to keep what you got Right. We're fighting to fix form mistakes and to continue to build the gas tank.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, to fix form mistakes and to continue to build the gas tank.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know that you can continue to build for a very long time. I mean, the only research says, really, the only muscle that we're going to significantly keep for a very long time is your grip. Yeah, you know. So I mean, where are we at? What you know? What are we trying to do if we're probably live forever?
Speaker 1:well, no live till we're 81, that's right live till. I set the record, yeah, we gotta at least make it to 81, yeah I'm gonna live to 100.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna go to 82, just to beat you both damn it.
Speaker 1:Well, you're never gonna make our weight class, so you might as well just go on with your bad self you suck, I know, but you're right.
Speaker 2:It's that idea that you've got to look at what you're doing. What are, what really are the gains? You know, where do you want to go? What? What is making you comfortable? What are you enjoying doing? And then, how do you do it?
Speaker 1:yep, well, that's huge. That sounds like quite like questions for episode two of the doc files.
Speaker 2:I don't disagree with you. The silver seekers gym, silver seekers gym. So, doc, let me ask you in closing one piece of advice you'd give to the master's athlete right now just to sort of set them thinking for you, it's not that hard.
Speaker 3:I'm thinking for you, it's not that hard. And really I think all of the evidence points to really the master's athlete. I get it what you guys harp on a lot just do something, find something that is going to get you motivated, get up and move. I think from my direction me as a unique guest to your podcast there's medical evidence to say that this is very good for you. Uh, the this is not just you know hoopla and so forth that we'll get up and move around. Your, your hip fracture rates, your spine fracture rates, your stroke and heart disease rates all go down with movement, and the more the better. If you can move to a point of strain that's probably the best word I ever heard used for it to really activate the physiologic mechanisms that we associate with exercise, there has to be some degree of strain or, more commonly, this sucks a little bit.
Speaker 1:If you're going for a walk and you're enjoying it, and so forth.
Speaker 3:Sure, that's better, but if you're going for a walk and you're like man, I'm working to keep up with this person and I'm pushing a little bit and I can feel my heart. You have just split up the steep part of the curve.
Speaker 1:I'm stealing strain because that's a great concept split up the, the steep part of the curve I'm stealing I'm stealing strain because that's a great concept. That is a great concept because I think it's it. I think everybody understands that on a personal level, without having to define it like it's a eight out of ten or right. It's just the strain because it's individualized.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love it. It goes back to what we've been talking about all night I love it.
Speaker 1:This is my favorite guest of today, for sure?
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, as I say routinely at the hospital, I am the best anesthesiologist in the room.
Speaker 1:Right now I'm the only one in the room right now, but you have the best anesthesiologist in the room. You're our favorite anesthesiologist.
Speaker 3:You are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there you go, you are.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and I actually know more than one. This is true. You know some of the ones I know.
Speaker 1:Scott, you want to wrap this up?
Speaker 2:I do yeah, Dr Jensen. Thank you so very much for joining us today.
Speaker 3:It was my pleasure.
Speaker 2:That was fun and as always, john is usually the one that says it, but I'm going to say it before him we do reserve the right to bring you back, because we do want you to come back. We had a lot of fun tonight. Thank you so very much and, as always, I'm still Scott.
Speaker 1:I'm John Bye Bye. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with others, post it on your social media or leave a review. To catch all the latest from us, you can follow us on Instagram at Masters Athlete Survival Guide. Thanks again. Now get off our lawn, you damn kids.