The Masters Athlete Survival Guide

Recovery That Works When You’re Over 40

• John Katalinas and Scott Fike

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We break down why stiffness after long days of sitting feels worse than soreness, how short movement breaks change posture and breath, and which recovery methods actually help athletes over 40. Morning vs evening workouts, heat vs cold, and the non-negotiables of hydration, protein, sleep.

• remote work posture and breathing impacts
• difference between stiffness and soreness
• movement breaks, standing desks, walking treadmills
• ten-minute walks as a daily anchor
• dynamic warm-ups and kettlebell prehab
• morning versus evening training trade-offs
• hydration, electrolytes, and alcohol as a diuretic
• heat, cold, compression, percussion tools
• avoiding recovery overload and placebo traps
• cooldown sets and active recovery
• deloads and consistency over intensity
• recovery myths: ice baths, stretching, no pain no gain

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Welcome And Seasoned-Athlete Focus

SPEAKER_01

Welcome to the Masters of Athletes or Mind Company, where we explore the secrets to thriving in sports after 40. I'm John Catalinus, and along with Scott Flick, we'll dive into training tips, nutrition hacks, and inspiring stories from seasoned athletes who defy age limits. Whether you're a weekend warrior or a competitive pro, this podcast is your playbook for staying fit, strong, and motivated. Let's get started. And we're back. Hey, we are back. How are you doing, John? I'm doing well. I'm still John. I'm still Scott. Hi. It's been a hot minute. I know, right? Well, the winds the other day could have blown away a horror. I know, right? It's after Christmas. It is after Christmas. You know what I noticed about recording? It's after your birthday, too. Oh, I know. It was very tragic. So I didn't know. How many days? I don't know. I knew you were gonna ask to 362 or one or something like that.

SPEAKER_00

361 days. Yeah. You're welcome.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah, we weren't gonna go there, but I did notice that in some of the episodes, I'm like, wow, I can tell when we recorded this and versus when it's been released. When it's been released, yeah. Yeah. Jerks.

Remote Work, Sitting, And Stiffness

SPEAKER_00

You know, John. Nope. I spent a lot of time reflecting because I've been off for a few days from work and I've spent a lot of time reflecting on you know what this year has brought in terms of work and how it sort of fits in and you know where my stress levels are and things like that. And the one thing I've noticed, you know, I do a lot of sitting. And I'm starting to question how long I'm sitting on any given day. Now if I'm putting in a 10 or a 12 hour day, I might be at my desk for if it's a 10 hour day, eight and a half, nine of those hours.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think because I mean I have uh either it's an intense field job or an intense desk job, you know, depending on the day. But with the the remote work thing for me, like I'm sitting. Like I'm sitting. I'm sitting a lot when I'm you know, it's not like get up, wander around the office, go to the kitchen, see if someone brought good snacks. I miss office snacks. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I actually take time. Yeah, in like if I'm in a meeting and I know my bosses don't listen to this, I will put, oh, student came to the office. I will stand up and literally walk around the building once. Because if I'm sitting for a two-hour meeting or a three-hour meeting, my legs start hurting, my joints start to hurt, and it's not soreness, it's stiffness. Like the muscles ache when I stand up.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I get that. I mean, that's I think that's why I'm always exhausted when I fly. And I used to think it was either the stress, because I don't love flying, but that's not really it. And then I thought it was like the chaos of flying, but even when it's super simple and not really uh, you know, a challenge to fly somewhere, I get to where I'm going and I'm like feeling older than the old man that I actually am. If you can believe that, yes, thank you.

SPEAKER_00

I I really this is the point where I wish we were a visual podcast because the look on my face, older? How can you be older?

SPEAKER_01

That's what yeah. I I took that as uh there's you and then there's like mummies. So older? Yeah, I got that. Thank you. You're so subtle.

Travel Fatigue And Aging Bodies

SPEAKER_00

Moses, you know. Moses. What was he, 912 or something? Let my people go. So I wanted today, you know, we talk about diet, we've talked about exercise, we've talked about the medical side of things, we've talked about different training regimes and stuff like that. Today I'd like to spend some time, if you wouldn't mind. I don't mind. I don't care. Oh, the recovery you can't skip when you sit all week. That idea of what happens to the body, and you know, ultimately the fact that you can't really out train sitting that long.

SPEAKER_01

You know, this is horrible. This is horrible. No, because since we did the episode with uh Adrian, yes, I've been obsessed with like warming up, uh prehab, whatever you want to call it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I I understand. I actually started a new regime for that.

SPEAKER_01

I don't do any of it, but I'm but I I look at it and I go, wow, I should be doing that.

SPEAKER_00

So I started because of the uh wonderful thing that is social media and Facebook. I've been getting, for whatever reason, a lot of different um Soviet Russian kettlebell type of exercises.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I thought you were getting like wives near you or something like that. No, no, I don't fly them in from Croatia, they are looking to meet you now. I send those to Ronnie.

Today’s Goal: Recovery That Matters

SPEAKER_00

Thanks. Nice. So I've actually started doing a lot with kettlebells for my prehab, you know, as you just called it, like Adrian said, because it's the same reason. You know, we're in our mid to elder 50s. You can't walk in and start squatting right away or start deadlifting or sandbagging or whatever. You have to do that, and I think more so when we look at the concept of that most of us, and we've talked about that sort of progression of uh a typical lifestyle, that we are sitting more and more because we've gotten to the point where our job is more secure and we're maybe not outdoing some of the other things that we may have done when we're younger, so we are more sedentary with that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and I think that probably also speaks to um you know the weekend warrior that starts back, you know, January 1 is right around the corner for us as we record this.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_01

And you invariably you get those people that oh, I need to get back to the gym. And I think if you go from 38 and a half hours a week of sitting at your desk to getting after it like you're in your 30s. Yeah. Yeah. Without without that sort of pre-modern medication. Well, there's that too. But I mean I think step one before you start buying that gym membership is is moving, right?

SPEAKER_00

Is is we've talked about that for what? No, I know, but two years now, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But I don't think we've ever framed it in the hey, sitting is I mean, sitting is an event. I don't know if it's bad. I don't know if sitting's bad. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00

It it it's hard on your body. How's that? Well, if you think about it, when you take transatlantic flights, you're going to Europe or to Asia or something like that, they tell you stand up and move, that you cannot sit that long because of thrombosis. That you like that word? I'm a doctor.

SPEAKER_01

That was a good word. You are a doctor.

Prehab, Kettlebells, And Warm-Ups

SPEAKER_00

I'm a doctor, wrong doctor, but it's it's that idea that you know blood starts clotting, or and this is where I show that I'm not a real doctor. The medical side of it, the joints just stiffen up, the back, the knees, the the hips, the everything like that. And the bigger part is when you sit, precious and fewer the people, because we design chairs to be comfortable, that have their shoulders back, have their head up looking straight ahead. We're always looking down at a keyboard. So we're sort of slouching over and get that that you know, the rounded hump of the back. Yeah, and your breathing gets affected by that because your lungs need to be open, your chest needs to be open. Jeez. We talk about the ideas uh when we do deadlifts, when you and I teach deadlifts to people. Look up at something at the top of the gym. Make sure that your chest is big. Open your chest up, open your chest up. Look at you, you know. So I want to talk about that type of stuff. I want to talk about maybe the difference between soreness versus stiffness.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I don't know. I I stiffness, soreness for me is just I get feedback when you when I move, right? Like, oh, I'm sore because I move, you know, I I make a movement with I did legs yesterday and I move my legs and I'm aware that there's muscles under the skin. Stiffness is worse. I think stiffness is I'm trying to move. Hey, it's gonna take me a second because you know I gotta straighten out and pop and crack and I think that's the best thing, you know.

SPEAKER_00

The running joke and all the social media things that we see. I want to stand up. My goal this year is to stand up so my knees don't sound like race crispies. Yeah. Dating ourselves here, or our back or anything else. That's part of it. I think soreness is in training terms, and I was gonna say weightlifting, but it's not just weightlifting. You know, you can get it in pickleball, you can get it in bowling, you can get it in competitive walking, or like our friend Candace, you know, with ultra marathoning for a hundred miles.

SPEAKER_01

That would not make me sore. That come on, that's nothing.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's nothing. We you have to run it, John. You can't do it in your car.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, oh, oh. Never mind. I was thinking your mileage may vary. Never mind. Your mileage may vary, that's for sure. Never mind.

SPEAKER_00

You know, soreness, it's like that tired, achy feeling that with more motion over time, it starts to feel better. You know, that that dull pain will start to go away.

SPEAKER_01

But you know, I don't want to derail the conversation, but I think this is a good intersection for when do I really need to pay attention to soreness slash stiffness, right?

Sitting Posture, Breathing, And Pain

SPEAKER_00

Like I think we're gonna go there. Okay, we're gonna talk about today. I want to get into some of the different recovery things that are out there. We've, you know, in the past we've talked about ice baths, we've talked about theraguns, we've talked about um compression. You you've talked about the compression uh those leggings. I covet them. I don't know if they work, but god do I want one. We're gonna talk about them. We're gonna talk about some of the myths. Okay. Because a lot of people say you gotta do an ice bath every day. Well, in the terms of our favorite meme, bullshit.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, that's your favorite meme, by the way. Oh, yours. The little kid in the backseat. I don't have a favorite meme and I love them all.

SPEAKER_00

That's part of it. And then we're gonna get into, I think today, the idea of um, you know, what can we take away from this? You know, are there things that are placebos out there that they work because we say they work? And how much do we have to really consider with recovery the idea of stress and sleep patterns?

SPEAKER_01

Okay, so let's let's get back to this. So I'm sitting at my desk. Step one stop sitting at your desk.

SPEAKER_00

Stand up, right? Like take some breaks. Take some breaks. Uh if you are fortunate enough to have the financial wherewithal, or if the company you work for is, you know, I almost want to say cutting edge or avant-garde, but I think it's becoming a little more normal. A standing desk.

SPEAKER_01

My office is not my home office, my office office is full of powered sit-stand desks. And that, you know, what I find, because I'm lazy, but yet, but yet I care about my body, bar height. Because my desk chair will go bar height too.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

So you're a little less folded if I raise the raise it up to a like where I'm I'm almost forced to be erect. Um ladies and gentlemen, we're gonna take this aside for a moment to realize that I am the adult in the room, and because I used a word that a 12-year-old might giggle at, Scott is currently giggling. Scott's giggling. We're back now. Um, yeah, but so I raise my desk up to like bar height, and I will work at that for a while. Um I've also, and this is another one of those things that you never know if it's snake oil. They make those walking treadmills, and they literally are just the base of a treadmill. They're not the there's not an upright, there's not a display.

SPEAKER_00

Almost like an elliptical type of thing.

Start Moving Before You Start Training

SPEAKER_01

No, no, no. It literally is the bottom of a um treadmill. It's oh yeah, yeah. It's so it just slides under your desk. So you can actually and I I don't think I can do this. I don't know if it's just because of the nature of my work or because my brain can only focus on so many things, but I don't walk and chew gum, huh? I don't think I could like fake walk and work. Like I'm sure I could go outside and take a phone call. I mean, I think I think that's wise, but I I don't think I could do and I don't really do phone calls by block given what I do. So but I I think those have some merit, just the moving. But you know, the the old school wandering around the office, doing some water cooling thing. Uh I think there's merit in taking breaks.

SPEAKER_00

I I would agree, you know if you think about it in the United States, in an eight-hour day, the typical is two 15-minute breaks and a half an hour lunch break, maybe an hour if you're lucky. So it they're saying to move, but I think they're doing that more for the mental side of things than they are the physical side of things. Possibly. I honestly feel that every hour, even if it's just to get up and walk around in my case, the building, once you know, that might take two minutes, two and a half minutes. All it's done though is it's changed that perspective of the way my body is situating for a given time.

SPEAKER_01

I I have seen data again, stronger data this time, the 10-minute walk thing.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_01

It's just a thing. And and you know, they're coming out to say now, because they've researched it, the 10-minute walk may be more valuable than a half hour run. Interesting. I don't know. That might also be the fact that I read it in lazy old man journal. Um, because you know, I'm a lifelong subscriber. You know, I I was a subscriber when it was young man, lazy person journal. And they had those highlight style hidden like find the snack in this picture, look for the candy bar, you know, those kind of things. Um I don't know. I just the movement is important. Sitting, I mean, there was a school of thought for a while that sitting was like smoking. I think I believe that might have been the quote when the whole standing desk thing started. That sitting was like smoking. I I I don't know. I have a hard time. I'm on the board of the American Lung Association. I gotta tell you, smoking's stupid. Sitting, uh, it's detrimental. We'll go with that. Um I don't know. I just if you have the the the possibility and the agency at whatever you do for a living to get up and move, get up and move. And I think there's probably, since we're talking stiffness and soreness, there's probably some some like value in if you're moving all day to stop every now and then, if you can. If you can.

Standing Desks, Walk Breaks, And Treadmills

SPEAKER_00

I don't know. No, I would agree with that. And the more you can get your body moving around, and again, it doesn't have to be out there riding a bike, it doesn't have to be out there running a marathon, standing on a walking treadmill when you're working, because I agree, it's that takes talent. I mean, you know, if you're walking and you're thinking and doing something on the computer, all of a sudden you step onto the side that's stationary, you're in trouble. But what it does is it relieves that sort of tightening of the muscles. One of the things that happens as we get older, obviously, is that the muscles atrophy, so they tighten up and they're not going to be as elastic as when we're younger. And I think that causes part of the problem. If we're not using them, we're losing some of that ability. My stomach muscles aren't tightening up.

SPEAKER_01

I am so why did I come back after vacation? I don't know. I have ab. Um yes, yes, you do. Yeah, I know. All right, you know. So what do we do about it? I mean, well, let's other than move. Yeah, let's what do we do about it?

SPEAKER_00

Let's talk about that. Okay. Okay, you know, we've talked about daily resets, we've talked about moving resets, things like that. We know we need to work out. We've talked about just getting moving. You know, if it's only that 10 minutes off the couch, put the Cheetos down. Not a sponsor. So you can get up and move around. Maybe while you're walking, you have a Pop Tart.

SPEAKER_01

Maybe they are a sponsor. He caught me off guard with that pop right paper. The look I got was pure gold. That's where I was going to pop tarts, which I just all right. Full full disclosure, Scott and I just exchanged Christmas presents because we haven't seen each other. And I I gotta admit, and I will admit to all the listeners, um, I bought Scott one other thing that I didn't give him. I bought him a case of the strawberry legendary Pop Tarts. You ate them, didn't you? I did. I ate it. I'm a horrible human. You see. I'm a bad person. Like at one point, I'm like, oh, I'll have one, and then I'll just fill a stocking with the rest of them. And then I'm like, you know, I opened it. I should probably have two, and then next thing you know, uh two dozen. Yeah, Scott, do you want I I think I have some spam or something in a can and uh do you want that instead? Sizzle, pork, and mmm. I bought a whole case of spam. I have a I have a problem. All right, let's get back on Dragon. That wasn't on track, that fell totally on brand.

SPEAKER_00

That was it's off brand, it's not on track. Oh, okay, fair. So when we talk about that day of the recovery, yeah, okay, and and we know motion, we've got friends that we constantly talk to this about. But okay, so you've done your walking. Now you're starting to do a little bit of training. Okay, and in in a future episode, we'll talk about competitive athlete versus weekend warrior. But I think here what I'd like to explore is you're gonna do something a couple days a week, you're gonna have a little bit of fun, you're trying to move a little bit more. Do you do it in the morning? Do you do it in the afternoon? Is there a difference? Do you do it at night? Is there a difference between morning and evening training? What do you think?

Hourly Movement And The 10-Minute Walk

SPEAKER_01

I think my first thought is it comes down to your personality slash your circadian rhythm because as much as I'm a 12-year-old most of the day, I'm a toddler when I first wake up. Uh my brain wakes up a good half hour, 45 minutes after my body. I'm the exact opposite. Yeah, see, I I I couldn't do anything in the morning. I couldn't do anything meaningful in the morning. Um, when the weather's nice, I will go for that 10-minute walk, but it I literally am stumbling forward. If you see me in a onesie walking down the street, I'm taking pictures, then I'm gonna take you home. Yeah, that's me. So no, mornings are not a thing for me. And I actually I think doing that for me in the evening would both I I think I could combine some things. Like it's a nice way to burn off a little bit of that last minute energy. I think it keeps you away from screens before bedtime, and it I also I also think it gives you a little chance to sort of reflect on the day and your next day coming.

SPEAKER_00

Alright, so you talked, you hit on some of the stuff that Dr. B talked about with on both ends of it. In the morning, he says you gotta get out there, you gotta get that first sun onto the skin. But at night, you want to, especially at night, avoid certain light in and getting into that. And then you talked about some of the the cognitive parts of it where it's relaxing what the brain is doing, sort of decompressing, I think you'd call it, and looking at the stressors from the day and maybe sloughing them off.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I you know, because again, January one is coming. I did a little like Like, you know, how do you how do you increase productivity? Because I think that's the mindset that some of us get into. More caffeine on this. I can't do more. I'm doing less caffeine. I am saying this out loud. I am doing less energy drinks in 2026.

SPEAKER_00

Folks, in approximately three months, a little less than three months, we'll be at the Arnold. I want to see how that fares.

SPEAKER_01

I'm going to reach out to the Pope and ask for special discompensation for that day. Dispensation. Yeah. Decompensation. Whatever. I will be uncompromised. I don't know. I'm all flustered now because you called me out on my bullshit. It's like the caffeine holiday. Like Arnold. Here you go, sir. Here's this free energy drink. Oh, here's another one. Oh, here's another one. Oh, we should try our brand. Oh, here's a case of them. As the broccoli heads go walking away. Yeah. That doesn't count. But I am. I'm trying to use less caffeine for a lot of things. I'm just trying to call you out on stuff. No, you can call me out on you can call me out on stuff. Plus, again, it costs me a dollar every time we swear in an episode. So I'm glad you got that out of the way yet again. I did that earlier. Oh, did you? Yeah. I don't pay attention to you when you talk anymore.

SPEAKER_00

I know. I know. All right. So I tend to be a night workout person as well. I don't mind mornings. I, you know, many stuff that we've done throughout our lives. You know, I've gone to work at five o'clock in the morning, so we've done all that garbage. But for me, working out at night just is that last sort of burn the energy. Relax a little bit.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I like, I like, and you own one now, but the sauna thing at night? Yeah, the infrared red light. Oh, I love that. I don't I that I I'm not gonna get in the physiology, I'm not gonna get into anything. I just it is really nice to sit there and be hot and then stop being hot and go to bed.

SPEAKER_00

We're gonna talk a little bit about that in terms of recovery in you know, maybe 10, 15, 20 minutes, whatever. Yeah, we are that idea because some of the compression stuff that I've seen now also includes red light therapy.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I'm on the fence about red light. I I will say now, spoiler alert, I did a little experiment, and if you've got some like skin scars, some sort of things like eczema and stuff like that, I think that works very well for that. But um, I don't know.

From Movement To Training Consistency

SPEAKER_00

All right, so let's let's see what research has to say about morning workouts versus evening workouts, and then give me some of your thoughts. All right, sure. Morning workouts. It works to kick start your metabolism and provide you energy for the day. If you think about it, movement is what metabolism thrives on. So it's gonna do that for you. Consistency is easier to stick with before other daily interruptions occur. So you don't have all the other blather that sort of fills up your day. Improves cognitive function and concentration is what it's saying. Because maybe because we don't have toddler brains. Oh, I thought that's right. So that way it wakes us up a little bit quicker, and then finally, according to research, it says weight management. Early morning workouts, one of the benefits is linked to lower obesity risks, says uh different studies that I, for whatever reason, can't find right now. No, that's fine. So, what is your opinion on those type of things before I give you the evening workout thoughts?

SPEAKER_01

Okay, well, the first thing is the obese obesity thing. Yep. I I think that's um causality, not correlation, or whatever. I think it's just the fact that if you're getting up in the morning and you're moving, you're probably not obese because you're not on the couch eating Cheetos. Not a sponsor. Nice, you do that better than I do. I know. Um so I I just will tell you from my personal experience. So pickleball maybe three, four times a week. I play a lot. I get up very early to do it 6 30, 7 o'clock, try to sneak in an hour before work. Um if I'm not careful and I do it too hard, it it's a struggle to sort of switch gears and get to work. And it also makes me starving. Starving.

SPEAKER_00

So you're exercising in a completely empty stomach?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I I prefer to uh always exercise, lift, compete, kinda empty.

Morning Vs Evening Workouts

SPEAKER_00

To an extent, I'd agree with that. I don't go completely empty on that. I I want to have something in there because I want to have a little bit of energy in the tank.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I I you know, I guess. I guess to bring it back to, you know, there's nothing that caffeine can't fix. Yeah. Boy, have we found that out. Yeah. So the I yeah, I I I I can't feel full. How about that?

SPEAKER_00

I can accept that. I think I I agree with the statement. We know, I mean, medical science proves motion is going to increase your metabolism because it it needs something to provide. Whether it's got fresh supply in terms of something you just ate, or it has to go on some of the carbslash fats that you have in your body. It needs something. So it is gonna kickstart your metabolism. I would also agree with the concept that it sort of livens the brain up a little bit. The food or the moving? The movement. Morning exercise, I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Morning exercise is gonna sort of get the brain jumping a little bit.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I get that. That I will accept that as much as I accept anything? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Evening benefits, performance, body temperature peaks leading to better strength, power, and endurance. Stress relief, and you hit on this, a way to decompress. Sleep can provide or promote better, longer sleep quality for many because the the body is sort of coming down off of that heat cycle, and health, it may lower blood pressure and reduce heart disease. Yeah. I will get the last one.

SPEAKER_01

I don't either. But I was gonna I was actually gonna reach out to you personally about this offline because I sort of had this question. Um, I don't know how I feel about periodization. If I train at four o'clock every day of the year, am I best to compete at four o'clock that day? You know what I mean? I like am I setting myself up to be sort of have a window of greatness?

SPEAKER_00

I don't know the research on it. No, I don't either. But in my mind, what you've done is everything that's happened up to four o'clock, your body is used to dealing with that. So and maybe this is just me. I try to train at night for the most part because that way all of the garbage that I've dealt with during the day, it allows me to deal with that stress and then still be able to handle it. So that way when I compete at you know 8 a.m., 9 a.m. for these comps we go to, the body is already used to dealing with it, and now I don't have it.

SPEAKER_01

Oh you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I like that. I accept that. Because again, I was I was struggling with that. I was wondering, like, should I should I be getting that psychopathic about like when we train?

Circadian Rhythms And Real-Life Routines

SPEAKER_00

So I think the one thing that you hit on though when you said, Do I train at four o'clock every or I train at four o'clock every day was your example? What you've done is you've gotten into consistent training. And I, you know, we're gonna talk about that in a future episode. But that idea of consistency is so vitally important because you're getting past those mental stumbling blocks. And you can come in and out of consistency. I mean, if you I can't train at four o'clock today because work went late. All right. So for the next week and a half, I'm going to be working until six o'clock at night. All right. Well, I didn't train today. I'll put it off till tomorrow. So we're gonna talk a little bit about that in a future episode. Do we have to? We do. I don't want to talk about that. I feel I feel I feel like targeted, it hits a little close to home. Is that what you're saying?

SPEAKER_01

I feel targeted. I don't want to talk about that at all. That's the worst thing I want to talk about. I really don't think I care right now. Let's talk about burritos or something.

SPEAKER_00

Good lord.

SPEAKER_01

Only you can go from consistency to burritos. So, all right, let's let's let's not leave consistency for a minute as much as I want to. Um because it comes back to this soreness stiffness thing.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

You can't use soreness slash stiffness as an excuse to wait in most cases. I mean, if if you have extreme of either of those and you are concerned you have a little bit of an injury, right? And those are different rules. But if it's literally just the fact that you got after it and you're a little sore, or you you know, you sat at your desk for 10 hours and you're a little stiff. I don't think either of those are a good reason to not do whatever athletic endeavor you're about to do.

SPEAKER_00

I would agree a hundred percent, and we're gonna talk about that as well. That idea that I can't push through things like when I was 20. But I have to be consistent. You know, the idea of active recovery versus sedentary recovery, the idea of um dynamic stretching versus static stretching, those types of things we're gonna look at. And I I really like the idea here because it pushes us, but you know, like uh Doc said, Eric Jensen, when we had him here, it's that you know, the Jensen rule you push just past being comfortable.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, but there I I I will follow up with the Catalina's corollary, which is Yes, folks, you are now in an episode of the Big Bang Theory. There's nothing wrong with just going and doing something. Every day doesn't have to be a win, right?

SPEAKER_00

Oh no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, we're gonna have losses. We're gonna have times when we go backwards, but it's what you do. You know, when I was working with teachers at one of the previous schools that I worked at, I said to them, you've got to get from A to B. It is not always going to be a straight line. You're not gonna have your students getting better every single day. There are gonna be days when things are gonna come in, and it's it's our lives, it's our children, it's work being a pain in the butt. It's you know, yesterday we were gonna record yesterday, but we had gale-forced winds. I mean, you know, it was what? It was in the mid-70s with some of those gusts that were coming through here. Yeah, it was very windy. So it's it's those type of things. So I agree with you. You're not always gonna be a win.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, but it's also funny that a couple old men couldn't record because it was windy outside. That's the worst excuse on its face. I mean, it was horrible.

SPEAKER_00

You really should have let that pass.

SPEAKER_01

I know. It was horrible. I mean, it wasn't just windy, it was snowing and I don't know what 20 degrees. So I don't know what that was with wind chill, like minus 4,000. No, 3,000. Oh, you think as a scientist I would know that. But uh I would hope it's a scientist or something. I don't. I don't know. So where are we? Let's come back to stiffness versus soreness because it's I think we've beat that up.

Heat, Sauna, And Red Light Questions

SPEAKER_00

Have we? I really do. I I want to get into because we've talked about stiffness versus soreness. We've talked about how the body sort of postures when we sit at work.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

We've even gotten into you know a little bit of the idea of some recovery. And I think we need to talk about that and then get into some of the recovery myths more. Okay. So we've talked a lot about recovery in this this pod or in this um the show, not this particular podcast, but on our podcast. I understand. When we've talked about, you know, proper rest, proper rehydration, those type of things. But all too often, as adults, unless you have sort of conditioned yourself not to, I think hydration for a lot of people our age is more than just water. And that's a problem. How so? Say more. A lot of people might have a drink at night. Um beers or something like that. And there's nothing wrong with that. We are not saying not to drink as I look across the studio and see a very large bourbon collection.

SPEAKER_01

Cases of yeah, the cases of bourbon. The two bottles that I gave you as a gift. Yeah, other than that, we're recovering just fine, people.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. The idea though is those are diuretics. Alcohol is a diuretic, and it just pulls out of you the nutrients that you need from the water, the electrolytes and stuff like that. You need to get the right stuff into you. I mean, the body is predominantly liquid.

SPEAKER_01

And I will say I will add on top of that, the fact that I am a type 2 diabetic. Uh, if I'm drinking, I'm peeing, and it's not just like the volume of liquid, it's also my body going, yo, we don't want any of this in us. This is uh gonna be my response to try to keep your blood sugar reasonable. Doesn't stop me most of the time, some of the time. But I've seen some of those times. Yeah, I I I mean, recovery. So, I mean, let's be brutally honest. What do you do for recovery? Like, what do you actively do for recovery? Because you in the grand scheme of old people, you get after it in a gym. You you are you are demanding of your body.

SPEAKER_00

So I I talked earlier in this episode about that warm-up because we talked about with it how Adrian said I've got specific things I'm doing. So I've started doing some very specific things, okay, okay, to get myself going, which is even sort of jacking up the intensity a lot more. And I find myself at the end of training sessions. I mean, just the body is tired, the muscles are hanging, I'm sweating profusely. So, what am I doing for recovery? It's a lot of water, it is some sort of electrolyte, and then quite honestly, and this is probably not the best thing, it's a hot shower or uh an Epsom salt bath.

Evidence For Morning And Evening Training

SPEAKER_01

I love heat. I hate cold. I hate cold. I've done cold plunge, I've done it a few times, many times. Hate it.

SPEAKER_00

I can't do it. Hate it. I've got something called, and I'm gonna butcher the name, Rhinodes disease, where extreme cold actually shrinks your penis. Actually makes it that I want to cut my fingers and like toes and limbs off because they're so painful. So I can't do the extreme cold. No, that's a thing. We had a friend, um, Tony, who said, Hey, we should do a polar plunge and raise money for the foundation. I'm like, I'm there to collect all the money. Yeah, my old bones are not going in the water.

SPEAKER_01

I did a Highland game uh up near Lake Ontario during they had a polar plunge, and basically the people that did it were drunk. Very drunk.

SPEAKER_00

I'm sorry, drinking in a highland game?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, most of the people that jumped in the water were drunk. Um, no, I hate cold. I love heat. I think it's probably psychological, but heat is more relaxing to me. I I feel like I can tolerate it longer. Um the contrast thing makes me want to cry. I've done that.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, that Swedish thing. I've done it a handful of times.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god. You know, God bless the people that do it. I mean, I have plenty of friends that have the horse trough out back, and you see them on the social medias, chipping the ice away to sit at it. And um our buddy Josh. Our buddy Josh. No, Josh, you're a better person than me. I can't. Oh yeah. I can't. So yes.

SPEAKER_00

We're getting into recovery, and you asked me what I do, and I sort of shared what I do, and yeah, we know that you drive home and drink while you're when you get home.

SPEAKER_01

That's pretty it. Okay.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, I'm I'm pretty good at these things.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

There are so many, and we, you know, tossed a couple up in the air early. There are so many different ways that people are recovering nowadays. You know, the cold plunge that we've mentioned, um, compression therapy, heat, um, Theraguns, you know, like the massaging guns. Oh, I have one of those. So the problem in my mind is people are doing these all. And they're doing them all the time. Yeah. More is not better.

SPEAKER_01

Well, you know, here's the problem. Here let me put my scientist hat back on. You introduce too many variables, you don't know which ones are doing what. 100%. I I would recommend if you don't have a recovery scheme right now, pick a list of five and start with one and do that for a while, and then add two and then add three.

SPEAKER_00

Um tracking your variables.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, because I mean a couple things are gonna come up. First of all, you you only have a finite amount of time, uh, you know, unless you're Adrian, who is better than us, it's her life. I mean, literally, this is her life. She's just better than us. Um, you know, she spends so much time prehabbing and rehabbing. Um, you know, you only have so much time. Uh what you don't want to do is you don't want to make your recovery into some burden that you're then gonna skip. But so you want it to be meaningful. And I think I'm a big believer in the placebo thing. I think it's just because my brain is uh very susceptible to uh influence from outside sources. Yeah. So I think the fact that I think sauna works great, I think helps sauna work great for me. I think if you hate the heat and you're sitting there and you're miserable and you can't wait to get out, I I don't know that you're getting the same benefit that I am. See, I'm a heat guy. Yeah, I really because you're so svelte, do you get chilly? I do.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I'm 300 pounds spelt.

Consistency, Stress, And Competition Timing

SPEAKER_01

No, but seriously, I I think I think there are two distinct camps. Well, there's three. There's also the psychopaths that like both. Um yeah, I know. Yeah. But I don't know. I like I like I like heat for recovery. Um, when Scott says he drinks water for recovery to rehydrate, um, that would be an understatement. Yeah. Scott drinks lots of water for recovery.

SPEAKER_00

Over the course of a day, I'll go between three and six liters of water a day. Oh, wow. Look at you getting all metric. Wow. That's only because the bottle that I use is in leading.

SPEAKER_01

Oh no, I thought we were talking to our global community, you know.

SPEAKER_00

We are. We are. I saw we just picked up a new subscriber from the Philippines.

SPEAKER_01

That's awesome. You know what I hate about that when I make those posts? What's that? I look up where these cities are that people are listening to us. Yeah. God, people live in the most beautiful places. It's like what are you talking about? Aurora Studios is like I know Valhalla. Did you did we not mention it was like 70 mile an hour winds and like 15 degrees yesterday? Yeah, no, we did. Valhalla is just iced over.

SPEAKER_00

It's cold. Yeah, it is cold. I think when you think about you know recovery, some of it is mental. You know, you talked about the placebo effect. We talked about, and I really like when you went there, the concept of pick three, five, start with one, move on. Ultimately, folks, when you think about recovery, it has to be there's sort of like if you think of them like supplements to your diet, recovery has to help supplement your nutrition, your hydration, and your sleep. So it's gotta take it. So those things that you know the ilks, the the pains that we gain from what we're Doing it pulls away the concept of that pain so we can eat better. We can make sure we're getting hydrated. We've got to make sure that what we're doing is allowing us to sleep. Last thing I want to do is finish a workout at nine, ten o'clock at night. And I don't recommend that to most people. Finish a workout at nine o'clock at night, ten o'clock at night. Go inside, take a hot shower, take a quick Epsom bath, something like that. And then do a cold plunge and then say, hmm, I think I'm gonna go to bed now.

SPEAKER_01

I wouldn't that ain't happening. I wouldn't go to bed. I would not. I'd cry. I'd be bald up in the corner crying and shivering. Um okay. So here's something like your weight loss process. Yeah, same thing. So here's something I bet you you didn't research at all. Probably did. When am I recovered? What is my goal? How do I know? See?

Soreness Vs Stiffness And Training Anyway

SPEAKER_00

Befuddling. It is a little bit because it's not a concrete answer. I know. Because on one day, I mean, think about it. We've had sessions that, you know, in the gym we finished um a couple years ago when we first started training together a few years ago, and it was December, the month of grind. We would walk out and it would take me, you know, the half hour ride home plus the um, you know, whatever I did at home, the the drinking of fluids, the the sort of stretching, the the the um not static, active stretching, walking, uh, those type of things. Now when we do grinds, I think for me, walking from the compound to my house, because it's you know what, about 50, 80 yards, something like that. Sure, that walk is part of my active recovery. And weightlifting from physical weight lifting, I need less recovery than I do when I've done two or three grinds, or if I've done, you know, my version of an em where it's picking up a keg, putting it over a bar for three repetitions, taking a minute and doing that for like 15 rounds.

SPEAKER_01

Emom is uh every minute on the minute. Sorry. That's okay, you just got all super technical. So um for people on the street, I go to my local big box gym. Do I do I taper, in your opinion, because I uh you know, I know we're neither of us are exercise scientists, do I taper my lifting at the end to sort of start the act of recovery? Or do I just go, go, go, go, go, stop?

SPEAKER_00

After every working set is finished in any exercise. So if you know, if you're planning for yourself, and I I don't recommend that your coach, when they do stuff, they'll tell you work up to your working sets. Your working sets are those heavy weighted sets that it might be three sets of five or something like that. I always have encouraged and my trainers encourage, do a couple of cooldown sets where it's the same exercise, but let's say you know, top end deadlift was 550. Okay, now go down to 300, do a set. Now go down to 200, do a set, and it's sort of de-stressing the muscles but keeping them moving so that way that acid isn't like you said, go, go, go, done.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. And it's funny, I guess I thought of it more from a bodybuilding um so the hypertrophy. Yeah, I like I like I don't know. Do you flush the muscle? Do you leave with the pump and immediately go to the bars and like shed up women? Oh no, but I want to go to the bar while I'm all jacked in tan. How you doing?

SPEAKER_00

Hi, Karen.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, well, I I wanted to 30 years ago. How's that then? Yeah, I don't want to do I don't want to go to a bar now. I I want to I want to watch Netflix. That big gap of silence seems like we've uh we're heading towards the end, I think. We've ridden this one into the ground.

SPEAKER_00

I think the part that we need to think about is when we talk about these recovery things and we talk about managing fatigue and and stuff like that, we've got to keep a couple things in mind.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

Recovery Basics: Hydration, Sleep, Nutrition

SPEAKER_00

There is no shortcut to what? To managing that stress after we're done. And we're not talking about the mental stress, we're talking about the physical stress on the body. There is no shortcut. You have to find something that works for you, and that's something that's gonna be variable. You know, if it's you know, you see a lot of runners, they'll run for you know five miles or half an hour, whatever, and then they walk it out when they're done. Those type of things. Something else is be careful of overusing some of the things that we've talked about. Yeah, compression is great, you know, infrared, red light therapy is great. Cold plunge.

SPEAKER_01

Not great, not great, but it's but it's great. For some people, it's great. Yeah, it's not great for me.

SPEAKER_00

Over reliance on these things, doing them every day makes them numbing. You start to lose some of the impact of what you've been doing.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and I think if I think about back across the arc of all my athletic endeavors, you do get to a point where if you're doing something with some consistency, because we talked about consistency, you don't need to do all this recovery stuff as much. Like again, and I hate to keep coming back to Adrian, but I think she's really solved the riddle. Um the fact that she sort of warms up and deals with all the all the facial stuff and all the movement stuff and all the opening every joint stuff. Um I don't know. I I feel like we need to have her back on and ask the question I met should have asked then. Like, what do you do to afterward? Right?

SPEAKER_00

No, I agree. And and I think where I'd kind of like to finish off at least with my thoughts, we've talked about how it influences us. We in a past podcast have talked about the the sort of myths that are out there from social media. Oh, yeah, you know, I think we just released a YouTube episode. We did, and you know, how things sort of sit with that. So I looked up some myths about recovery. So I'd like to share those myths, get your thoughts, and then I'm concerned that you're gonna say things that I think are true.

SPEAKER_01

So yes, hit me.

SPEAKER_00

Ice baths build more muscle and improve performance. It can actually blunt muscle building stuff.

SPEAKER_01

I I've seen both sides of that coin when it comes to yeah, does that stop your gains? Yeah, I don't know. I'd like to let let's put let's put a pin in that because I'm in businessy mode.

SPEAKER_00

I like that.

SPEAKER_01

I I think that's a topic worth find trying to find someone smarter than us and talk about it. Well, there's a lot of people smarter than us.

SPEAKER_00

Well, you maybe. Hi, humble protein shakes and gadgets are magic. But nutrition, especially, higher protein intake, and quality sleeps are the foundations. Gadgets are supplements, they cannot be the primary.

SPEAKER_01

When you say gadgets, you mean like theragon? Theragon. Oh, okay.

What We Actually Do For Recovery

SPEAKER_00

I didn't know if you meant like compression tubes, those types of things. Yeah, I uh more intense workouts always mean more adaptation. When the fact is overdoing it leads to burnout. Smart training, and here's one that you have hounded me on for years.

SPEAKER_01

Oh no.

SPEAKER_00

Smart training includes D-Loads.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Scott. Didn't I just say that?

SPEAKER_01

I know, but I felt superior by able to like call it out like that.

SPEAKER_00

We're gonna start talking about another um no psych who has D-Load issues.

SPEAKER_01

No, all y'all. It's generational.

SPEAKER_00

Says the man who's a few years older than me. Phew. Stretching post-workout is crucial for recovery. While good for flexibility, its direct recovery benefit is often overstated, especially when it's compared to sleep and nutrition.

SPEAKER_01

I I get I certainly get that. I mean, you know, the car runs bad if you give it bad gas. I get that. And sleep, I don't know, sleep just seems like a panacea. Like, like 100%. Step one, you want to fix something?

SPEAKER_00

Sleep. I've got three more for you. Oh my god. My younger self's recovery still works.

SPEAKER_01

I love that you didn't hesitate there. My younger self's nothing still works as well. Like it used to. Yeah. No.

SPEAKER_00

No pain, no gain applies to soreness.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Remember, we said soreness, not stiffness. No, that's true. And and the reality is that I for as hard as we work, we don't really work to pain ever. Like on purpose.

SPEAKER_00

No, I don't think so. No. But we've put some killer training sessions together.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I think I you know, I think it's more like my heart rate and my my respiratory rate dictate like, oh yeah, you've done some stuff. What why are we looking at me like that?

SPEAKER_00

I was enraptured with what you were saying. Oh, you're the best. I know. Thank you for saying that on air. Yeah. And finally, and this is one I love. The myth is that rest means you do nothing.

Tools: Cold Plunge, Compression, Theraguns

SPEAKER_01

Oh. Yeah. You mean active rest versus just active versus just sitting there on the couch eating Cheetos? Eating Cheetos, even though they're not a sponsor. They are not a sponsor. But I you know, here's a question. Here's a question. Would you accept them as a sponsor? At this point, it just goes against everything we've said. But it they are kind of delicious. I mean, don't don't get me wrong. They are kind of delicious. I was never a Cheetos fan. Really? No. Oh. Did you have a favorite snack food since this? I've knocked this complete. Ew. Fritos? Corn chips, tortilla chips, those types of things. Oh. Oh. Yeah. I cut myself on a funion once. I did. In high school, I cut my lip right open on a funy. Like bled like I got punched in the face. I'm sorry, folks. We're gonna leave you with that. There you go. But in mind. Fun fact, folks. I'm still Scott. I'm bleedy John. Bye. Bye. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with others, post it on your social media, or leave a review. To catch all the latest from us, you can follow us on Instagram at Masters Athlete Survival Guide. Thanks again. Now get off our lawn, you damn kids.