The Masters Athlete Survival Guide

Mastering Pain: How Athletes Over 40 Tell Hurt From Harm

• John Katalinas and Scott Fike • Episode 50

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We question the line between hurt and injured, then map a practical way to keep training after 40 without quitting. Warmups become diagnostics, mobility turns into insurance, and goals give way to systems that keep you consistent and strong.

• defining hurt versus injured for masters athletes
• using warmups to detect red flags
• avoiding hidden compensations and imbalances
• mobility and prehab as first training block
• simple tools for resilient joints and core
• intelligent modifications to keep momentum
• systems over brittle outcome goals
• when to consult PT, coach, or doctor
• accessory work that protects weak links
• how to adapt without stopping completely

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Masters Mindset Minutes should be your new performance habit every Sunday night 

Framing Life After 40 In Sport

SPEAKER_01

Welcome to the Masters of Athletes or Mind Company, where we explore the secrets to thriving in sports after 40. I'm John Candelinus, and along with Scott Fike, we'll dive into training tips, nutrition hacks, and inspiring stories from seasoned athletes who defy age limits. Whether you're a weekend warrior or a competitive pro, this podcast is your playbook for staying fit, strong, and motivated. Let's get started.

Winter Aches Spark A Bigger Question

SPEAKER_02

And we're back. So I'm Scott. I'm John. The goofy guy over there is John. That's me. You know, John. Yes. We've been doing this for a bit and we've been kind of beating ourselves up with different topics and things like that. But you know what? It's winter. At least here in Western New York, it's winter. Always. Always. And everybody's kind of, you know, sore and the doldrums and you can't get warm. And you know, like the body just aches. You know, I mean, we we talk a lot about my shoulder and the show and the issues I had with it. And you know, somebody who shall remain nameless decided to uh see which was stronger, their pinky or a couple of pickleball paddles. Yeah, that's me. So it it it got me to thinking this week. Is it that time of year again? For me to think, yeah. Excellent. You suck. What I started thinking about is what's the difference between, you know, when you're really hurt versus when it's just, you know, as we used to tell my kids when they were young, you got an oui, it's okay. You know, you're gonna live.

SPEAKER_01

You said that to me, like I think a couple weeks ago that I got an oui. Are you treating me like a six-year-old? Don't give yourself that much credit for it. Great, great.

Hurt Versus Injured Defined

SPEAKER_02

You know, but seriously, what when we start thinking about it, because you know, we train two, three, four times a week, and it could be something as simple as you know, going for that 10-minute walk that we've talked about versus putting in some sort of a serious session in the gym, or in your case, you know, I know you play pickleball what three, four times a week for a few hours, and you know, as goofy as it sounds, you're holding a paddle.

SPEAKER_01

That finger plays a key role. Oh, yeah. For for for those at home, I uh somehow smashed my pinky finger. I don't know, I didn't even notice it when it happened, but I got home and my cocaine will do that, John. Maybe that's it. My pinky toena, my pinky toenail, my pinky fingernail was jet black and swollen. And I did the thing that my running friend Dennis taught me that I hate is I took a drill bit and drilled through it and released way too much blood. Oh, it was so bad. Um but we're gonna we're gonna preempt that in the actual show. It says trigger warning. Yeah, blood talk. Yeah, it should have a trigger warning. And it honestly, my pinky's still kind of swollen in red, and I'm worried that I broke or chipped or something in there, which shows how delicate I am. Oh, delicate is definitely a word I would use to describe you.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, me too. That's so I guess my question for us to talk about and sort of beat up a little bit today is you know, what should the master's athlete ignore? Yeah. What is a warning sign? And, you know, what's not an injury yet?

SPEAKER_01

That's interesting. You know, thank you. I think you know, I mean, we're 50 something episodes in and we're just getting to this point, but I think you bring up a good point.

SPEAKER_02

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Time out on the field. Yes, sir. Are you saying that I haven't had a good point up to now? No, but the point was I was saying sorry.

SPEAKER_01

Maybe we need to be talking. I mean, we've been talking about how to train and what to train and you know, to give yourself some grace or to really get after it, and what you know, what it means if you're, you know, if you're not a competitive athlete, but you still want to move your body, all that stuff. Work that body. But I think what you're working up to is is this whole thing of when does like an an ache and pain sort of drift towards a warning sign for an injury? Is that where is that where you're headed with this kind of thing? Definitely.

Psychology, Toughness, And The Blue Tent

SPEAKER_02

What's normal, what's not normal. You know, what is what is when we're a kid, you know, that lactic acid, the muscle soreness versus joint injury or you know, joint pain, that type of thing. So again, you know, normal versus not normal. I think or the master's athlete. Because remember, it's different when you're in your 20s and 30s.

SPEAKER_01

I think if you're not like you and you're competing at a national level right now, I think your threshold should be somewhere around that. This is more than an ache in pain. I and I think it's very subjective from person to person. I mean, some people like me are just very delicate, and some people want to hit each other over the head with sticks. It's shout out to our friend Shannon.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So I mean, who is coming up here by the way to do just that? Hit people with sticks. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So I mean, that's that's gonna be kind of a gray area from athlete to athlete as to what to do. I and I would encourage everybody, uh being formerly and currently delicate, um, you could take it too easy on yourself. Like, I I there's a fear aspect for a lot of older athletes, especially people that weren't that athletic when they were young, that are trying to like now make up for lost time and maybe some mobility and and maybe try to, you know, longevity kind of thing.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I think you're talking about babying it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Well, it sometimes it hurts. Again, you know, I I go back to when Eric Jensen, when Doc was with us for that one episode, and he said, You got to push into that pain a little bit, but knowing what is just uncomfortable versus, you know, like in the case with your finger, yeah. What hurts? You know, I mean, we have uh an international grip competition coming up in which, you know, you stand a better chance to podium there than I do. Obviously. Well, we know that because you're a former world record holder. This is also true. You're welcome. Thank you. Check better be coming soon. You know, grabbing something, okay. You don't think about it. You don't think, oh, my pinky won't hit anything. Bullshit, your pinky won't hit something.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I can tell you now because I've done direct research. Yeah, uh, your pinky's far more involved in grabbing things than you realize. Yeah. Like, yeah, so it's it's gonna be a challenge, but you know, the other thing is that I'm not gonna die if it hurts. I mean, clearly I Oh, but I'm not gonna hear the end. Oh, you're gonna hear it, that's for sure. And when when if if the competition goes awry, I I got a built-in excuse. Oh my god, I would have done so much better if my pinky wasn't purple. But so this this this topic ties in some things that are both coming from future episodes and things we've already talked about. Is I don't think I can tell you how to avoid injury because I don't know what's going on in your head. Like, I can't imagine being a doctor and asking somebody like, are you injured? Like when they take them in the blue tent in the NFL, and you know great example, middle of the game, it's tied. I'm Josh Allen, I'm the starting quarterback.

SPEAKER_02

Go somewhere else.

SPEAKER_01

Am I ever going to say I'm too injured, I need a break?

When To Ask A Pro For Help

SPEAKER_02

But I think I love where you went with that because the brain, regardless of your age, of the situation, most people are going to say, you know, the psychology says, F that, I can still do this. You know, I'm gonna go through, I'm gonna train through the pain, all that type of stuff. Right. I think with your specific example here, Josh Allen, whomever, okay, that is a professional athlete, you know, hockey players, we're not gonna say soccer or basketball because they're all flop artists. Wow, yeah, you're welcome. We just lost about six subscribers. Wow. So with those specific cases, there's money on the line, there's those types of things.

SPEAKER_01

And we're not talking, you know, hundred bucks, we're talking hundreds of or or if you think about like right now the Olympics are going on, the winter Olympics, and Lindsay Von's gone before she destroyed herself, tore her PCL or one of the CLs. Yeah, one of the CLs. And she was completely willing to get back at it, which I'm sure hurt and I'm sure was a challenge. Oh, yeah. Um, but you know, she's in the Olympics. She's chasing her Olympic dream, which you know, I think she's 41. You know, the next one is a she's a master's athlete, yeah. Yeah. So uh I don't know, but uh on the other side of it is you're not, you know, if you're listening to this, you're probably not an Olympic athlete. And if you are, welcome to the chat. But um And thank you. Yeah, right. I think it there's nothing wrong with erring on the side of asking someone. There, you know, especially got especially no, I mean by asking I want to know what you mean by ask someone. Go to your doctor.

SPEAKER_02

And I think that's where I wanted to go with you and the blue tent type of idea. Okay. Was these are, you know, doctors who are specifically trained to work with exceptionally high caliber athletes, so they read beyond the male bravado or female bravado in Lindsay Vaughn's case, and they can they're looking for those certain telltale signs. I think that would be a great question for us to to get into with Eric at some point.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, good point.

SPEAKER_02

Um, you know, we've got a PT coming on the show in uh probably about a month, so you know, talk with him about it as well. But yeah, I just I guess what we used to say, because I I coached hockey and I worked in hockey for a while, as you know, and it was are you injured or are you just hurt? Oh, say more. You know, are you injured to the point and I'll give you a great example. There there was a team in the in the league that Ben first started playing juniors in, and they were uh called the Toronto Stealth. Okay, they were a U 16 team playing 20-year-olds. Okay, they had to be under 16 years old to be on this team. Okay. They're playing 20 year olds. They were oh my god, were they good? Oh yeah. Their coach used to say if you are down in the ice, you better be injured. Because if you're just hurt, you're trying to fish for a penalty or whatever, yeah, get your own ass off the ice. Get over here. Aggressive, you know, and and his players knew it. They knew how to tell the difference between, oh, I'm a little sore versus I am injured and cannot move. Right. You know, and and that's the type of thing. I real cute story for you. Ben was playing uh a game in Boston and his leg popped out from underneath him. Oh my god. Okay. I thought you were gonna say his leg popped off. No, like what? It may as well have that. That was when he had that surgery. Okay, okay. So he was stretching between periods and his leg just literally just crumpled underneath him. So the referee who coached, no, not coached, um, officiated D1 hockey and stuff like that. Okay. This is that injured versus hurt thing. So the ref's over there and they put a glove under his head because he's lying on the ice, the kid can't move, right? The ref says, What do you want to do? Ben goes, cut the effer off and let's play sled hockey. Ah nice. So injured versus hurt. Yeah. He was injured. Yeah, he wasn't hurt. Right.

Compensations And Imbalances

SPEAKER_01

I get you. But here, so here's another thing. I will play devil's advocate. Big word for you. I know. Um, I am a master's athlete. You are? I am also um head of sales and marketing for company XYZ, and I have a huge presentation on Monday. Okay. I suspect I am not gonna push as hard. I don't want to be limping into my presentation. I don't need to be limping into my presentation. I think and and this this it's it's why I think this topic just seemed to to uh tie a whole bunch of stuff together, is Adrienne Wilson who we had on. Yeah, think about it. She has an hour workout and might have 30 minutes of prehab. Uh I think that's the recipe. I think the biggest way to avoid this injury versus hurt thing is to do neither. Or do you say neither? Where are you on that hole? Are you a neither or an either? I'm a neither or an either. Okay. Are you neither an either or neither?

SPEAKER_02

Neither either. Okay. Wow. So I'm glad you went there because one of the things that sort of guides me when I'm training is you know, we've talked a lot about my shoulder issue and and stuff like that. When I do my warmups, I can tell if during warmups I'm starting to feel pain already, there's no overhead. Or I'm sort of doing ancillary work, and we can talk more about that in a bit. Or, you know, that sort of like for me, instead of pushing overhead, I might incline back a little bit, change angles, change directions, things like that. And I think that that's one of the ways that at least I and the people that I work with, I coach them to think about it. Where are you starting to feel pain and what is the pain?

SPEAKER_01

Ladies and gentlemen, well, welcome to the newest segment on the podcast called Calling Scott on His Bullshit. Where we call it.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, don't you tell me I don't warm up.

SPEAKER_01

No, no. I just want to give everybody the complete arc of where we got to today. Scott competed in the um Masters National Championship for strongman. Yeah. Came in second. Excellent, excellent day. He's definitely gonna retire from strongman because his shoulder felt like it was gonna fall off, and he was truly in the injured to hurt scale. He was approaching injured. Nagging, but not acute. Yes, sir. But to my defense, why are you defending? Uh do you not understand how this segment works?

SPEAKER_02

Yes, I do.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

That strongman, that that Nats was a one-handed overhead, and I could do it with my right hand, so I didn't have to use my left shoulder.

Mobility First: Prehab Over Ego Lifts

SPEAKER_01

So I had a false sense of like I did okay. You did okay. You know, I'm not taking away where I'm going with this is that after the competition for uh a month. A month? A month. A month you were definitely you were definitely never gonna compete again. Oh, I don't think it was that long. Yeah, maybe it wasn't. And then suddenly the the the needle moved far towards hurt from injured, maybe nagging injury. I don't know where nagging injury falls on there, but uh that's where it that's where the needle lies. And Scott is competing this year in Iowa. Yeah. Uh I mentioned I qualified for that. Um you did, and we're still working on getting you to go there. We're not. But so what I'm saying is uh that's why I think it's so personal because you're being dumb. Like if if because here's the thing, I want to take back the go to your doctor thing. Because I have had this doctor, sir, Mr. Catalinus, you are 40, you're 58 years old. 48 yeah. I was gonna go 48, wasn't that doable? And isn't it funny that that seems too young? I was gonna call you on your bullshit, right? You you you're 58 years old. Maybe you need to stop doing this shit to your body and just consider Mahjong. You know, I mean, like, have you considered Seduco? Right? Like, because I mean everybody's had that doctor. Yeah. Especially doctors that have, you know, older doctors who haven't had any education in a while, um, probably didn't get a lot of sports. You know, if you're not going to a sports medicine doctor, you probably have very little sports medicine background. You're just looking at nuts and bolts. My elbow hurts when I, you know, it's like a Groucho Marx thing. My elbow hurts when I do this. Well, no, don't do that. The the the temperature of the master's athlete world is shifting towards being a little more aggressive with your body, pushing a little harder. You don't have to be delicate as you age. It's actually good to put load on your bones, it's great to have core muscle. All you know, all those things I think are sort of a, I don't know, 10, 15 year development.

SPEAKER_02

But this is where I'm gonna go with it is when I don't do something, or you know, in my job currently, I sit way too much. I mean, there's times I'll turn the camera off when we're in meetings, and I'll just walk back and forth in my office. Okay, if I'm doing that for too long, if I'm sitting for too long, or if I'm in one position for too long, that's when my joints hurt. When I'm actually working out, yeah, when I'm training, I mean, like tomorrow's training session, uh I love my trainer. He is brutal, he is sadistic, and and he keeps me honest. But God, what he's got me doing tomorrow, I might, you know, broke.

SPEAKER_01

Does it feature a hood and a gagball? Because that sounded like the weirdest. No, it does the weirdest endorsement I've ever heard.

SPEAKER_02

And ladies and gentlemen, for those keeping score at home, yes, John is the one that will not be here on the next recording. Yeah, I guess not. Um, the idea is you know, you said it putting load on the bones, yeah, you know, building those core muscles. We do an insane amount of core work. I mean, I'm 55 years old, I weigh 300 pounds, and it's the amount of core work that we do is is incredible. And I gotta tell you, in in the winter we've had here in western New York, especially, you know, up in the northern towns in western New York, compared to you know, down here where the studio is, we've had tons of snow. I've got like six inches of ice on different spots and on the property I live on. And it's it it's comical to watch me walk on this stuff sometimes, but it's my core that has helped me stay upright and not fall.

Simple Tools: Kettlebells, Bands, Carries

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, we can't lose sight of the goal, right? Because again, none of us are Olympians, but we are all trying to for yourself. Well, not yet, at least. There's still hope for you, Scott. But yeah, right. I mean, we're trying to live longer and healthier, and giving up because of hurt, not injury, is is a bad idea. And I think part of the reality is that and this is also where I think you need to look without yourself, well, from outside yourself, is I I need some expertise. I my my knee bothers me. What do I do? Uh some people will go to to local sporting goods store and put on a neoprene knee sleeve, yeah. And think that that's a thing. And it might be. I I own a set that they're nice.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, but it's I guess the question becomes are you addressing the problem? Not necessarily, or are you trying to overcompensate? Yeah. Ah.

SPEAKER_01

Nice.

SPEAKER_02

All right. So I guess the questions that I would have. Of me? I've got way too many questions of you. I understand. I guess the questions I would have is when we start talking about this, how do we sort of look at these things? You know, and I already asked the question does the pain, you know, does it increase during warmups? Okay, something to think about. Yeah, another one. That pain you're talking about, you know, that that that limp that you mentioned earlier for the the thing.

SPEAKER_01

Yep.

SPEAKER_02

When it happened, are you noticing it more like when you're sleeping? Is it starting to affect your daily life? Right. All right, that's heading more towards injury. Yeah, I guess the bigger thing is, and I'm gonna say something counter to what I said a few minutes ago, is the asymmetric training that you start seeing yourself doing. You know, are you training around that? Are you overcompensating for one hand? You know, in that sense, when I do overhead presses, I know that my right arm can go completely straight. Right. So I might cheat it on the bar in a certain direction to get more leverage to help my left. If we're starting to do those things, then we've got some sort of body mechanics stuff. And this goes back to one of the very early episodes we had with Mike Safel and posturology, that idea of figuring out where those imbalances are and starting to compensate to help them, you know, measure up more, you know, get closer to the line.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I absolutely agree. Only because I mean, we have a friend that just had a knee replacement, and through the you know, no longer limping, no longer favoring that knee, you know, now it's while my back hurts, while my hip is. Because I mean compensation's been happening for I don't know a decade maybe. Ronnie, same way. Yeah. So I mean, there there definitely is that. And I think that you know that goes back to the Adrian Wilson formula of mobility over pure, you know, trying to get my bench up, I think.

Intelligent Modifications That Keep You Training

SPEAKER_02

All right. So you're a masters athlete. I am. Or we've got masters athletes that come and train with us. True. What are we going to do? What are we going to tell them?

SPEAKER_01

Let's talk about the mobility thing for a minute. Okay. I think, all right, let's let's assume we're at zero, right? We're at baseline baseline. We have no injuries, we have no hurts beyond so I just put the Cheetos down. Yeah. Not a sponsor. Before, you know, uh other than accumulated life where, you know, I got I'm 55 years old. Yeah. I mean, I get I I sit down in a chair and there may be a grunt or two, and uh that's from the chair that's not from your knees. You know what I noticed the other day? Have you knelt on a hard service lately? Yes. That's horrible. Yes. I would look I would give you my ATM pin if you made me kneel on my like like linoleum floor for any extended time because holy cow, I have lost some soft tissue, some something. And then it is horrible.

SPEAKER_02

I've been doing a lot of like uh ab roller type of stuff. Oh my god. Yeah. Yeah. First time you the first couple of reps you're doing on your knees, because I can't do them off my feet. Right, right, right. You know, I'll go out to full extension and I can actually do it. Yeah. When you can back your knees, like, you're an ass, you're an ass, you're an ass.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I know. Yeah, it it's so funny. And I guess this is this is part of the cautionary tale of this episode. Go jump rope for 30 minutes. You're funny 30 minutes, right? Like, like jump rope for a minute first. I mean, we we talk about like that guy sitting at the end of the bar talking about that one play he did in high school, you know, in football, and hanging his hat on that. And in his head, he's thinking he could probably get off that bar stool and go run that route right now, and he's being delusional. But then you do things like ab roller or jump rope or all the things we did when we were 12 uh for fun. It's like no, it's just not it's okay. So yes, sir, take your tail.

SPEAKER_02

You're Johnny Catalinas. I am all-star quarterback from Lancaster High.

SPEAKER_01

I think that was point, that was that was the premise for point break, wasn't it? I'm Johnny Utah, and I'm gonna hang out with Rob Banks. I'm so glad that you caught that reference.

SPEAKER_02

Nice, nice job. Thanks. So, but you're sitting down at the end of the bar. Yep. Okay, and like Johnny Utah, you're eating the donut and pounding down the brown juice. All right. You decided for whatever reason you're gonna get off that chair. Yep. You said, All right, I see these two monster mountain trolls come walking in. I say, Hey, I used to work out, blah, blah, blah. Can I work out with you? And we're like, okay, yep, meet us at the compound on Sunday. We want to do mobility work with this person first. Yep. What are we doing? What are you gonna see to those folks at our home that are doing that and then sort of progress it? They've been doing, they have been walking, maybe, or you know, like the old fool across me playing pickleball.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, no, I here's what I would do, and I learned this from Dan John in one of our episodes. I think I would do some of the basics. I would do a hinge, like a kettlebell swing, because that's dynamic loading across multiple planes of movement with uh could I could start with a very lightweight and do high repetitions and really just sort of, I think Dan mentioned like called it greasing the joints, right?

SPEAKER_02

Just oh yeah, I love that episode. I remember that.

Goals Versus Systems For Masters

SPEAKER_01

It literally is just I'm doing that kind of thing. Some of the things that we've beaten ourselves up with over the training sessions, heel touches from an elevated box. That looks so easy. It's basically like stand on a stair and put your heel on the stair below you. Yeah, do that 20 times in a row as a master's athlete, and you realize that your hip strength is kind of off.

SPEAKER_02

Or think about what we did just a couple months ago. Put a pan on the ground, yep, go down on one knee, go down on the other knee, stand up with one knee, stand up with the other knee. I mean, that type of stuff. It's not, it's not even that it's hard. Yeah, it's the the motion of the major joints of the body, the knees, the elbows, the hips. So many adult men have hip issues. And it's not osteoarthritis. It's just it's that everything's tightening up because we spend so much time, you know, in a seat because we're driving, in a seat because we're sitting on our ass at home. Yeah. Or, you know, in my case, it's my job. There are times if I know the campus is pretty empty, I have this exercise where I will get down on two knees and I'll put my hands on the wall, and then I will rotate my hip out so that it goes and my foot goes onto the ground from my knee, and then I'll rotate it back down and then I'll do the same with the other one. So basically an outward hinge with my hip.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, again, it's just because we do so much that causes everything to sort of freeze up to use the you know, the opposite of the greasing the joint. It's like they're rusting.

SPEAKER_01

No, I I again, if I had to put a kit together for somebody to, you know, who hurts but isn't injured, it would be a kettlebell. It would probably be a hip circle, which is just a small band that you wear around your hips. We've got them. Yeah, and that that that fights that allows you to fight against that that that collapsing of the hips. Well, it's it basically it's abduction and adduction.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, you know, I never know which one's which, I'm not gonna lie. That's why I say in both, because we do that sideways step, you're doing both.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah. I I you know it's there's so many loaded carries. I think we talk a lot about loaded carries.

SPEAKER_02

Define loaded carry though. Are you are you carrying it to your chest because that's what I'm gonna have people do on Sunday? Yeah. Or are we talking farmer-esque?

SPEAKER_01

No, I'm talking about hugging something and carrying it. So it's not away from you because uh, you know, again, if we're somewhere between hurt and injury, we don't necessarily want to expose a joint by holding something like way out in front of you. Or like when you talk suitcase carries, you know, you're do you're in your mind, you're doing very heavy or one-armed suitcase carries, which are loads on very specific joints. No, I think it's just like even the the go ruck weighted vest kind of approach, where you're just you're just adding a little more load to your structure.

SPEAKER_02

So I think where you're going here is where I kind of wanted us to really transition to. How do we modify intelligently what we're doing? You know, sometimes, like you said, it might be instead of carrying it out in front of us, doing, you know, what we call bus drivers, where you're sort of straight arm turning a plate versus hugging it into the body or you know, changing the levels of something. You know, when do we reduce a load versus change the movement? You know, are we doing safety squats or are we doing front squats? Yeah, those type of things.

SPEAKER_01

I'm not one like I don't know that there's value, and this is just me pretending to be a doctor playing on TV. There is never value in what you say. Yeah, I know. John is speechless. I did it. Like, if I could bench 405, but I had like a shoulder twinge, I don't know that there's value in me doing reps with 135 for an extended period of time. I'm sure there's fine time to do some D load. I'm sure that at least keeps that movement, but I think an adaptation to deal with you know chest exercises in a different way is probably the better move. And you know, I I want to tell everybody exactly what to do, but the reality is that you know, between AI and YouTube, you can probably just ask, hey, this hurts. I used to do this, what can I do instead? I would love it if it says don't do that anymore. Yeah, I I I can't believe that it would.

SPEAKER_02

I don't know. I don't think that's the old man watching.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I th I think 20 years ago it exactly would have said, Don't don't do it. Why why are you doing this?

Don’t Stop: Pivot, Adapt, Continue

SPEAKER_02

You know I guess part of me looks at it in and again, I I fight this with myself because as as much as I you know, we've been doing this now for what over two years and us as athletes for what 30 years each or more, depending on what? Well define athlete. Well as people who move a little bit. Okay, there you go. All right. So I I think I I still fight this, and this is the obstinate I can still do it mentality that gets me in trouble at times. I just I I like to have okay, I know I've got to do overhead in a competition. I know right now if I do overhead continuously through June when my competition is, my left arm is going to be a string dangling down the side of me. But I have to do something to keep those certain motions in groove. Tony calls it just getting a little bit of blood flow in it. Yeah. So for me, you know, it is something as as simple as, like you said, 135 pounds just for a few repetitions. But then that's where the intelligent training comes around. And I can do tricep work for my left arm, and he has me doing that. I can do upper outer chest work that does not affect my shoulder in the motion it is. So again, I'm looking at it from my perspective, but from anybody's perspective, as long as you have a professional helping you with where you can go and what you should do, I think we can intelligently train around the issues. You know, the knee that you talked about. Go back to Adrian Wilson with uh, you know, the the 30 minutes of prehab. Yep.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, the other thing is, and I'm gonna tease a future episode, you know, mindset. Yeah, it's mindset. Um some of it, and I am I am notorious for it, like, oh that hurts. I should probably just stop everything. And that's that's wrong. I I'm guilty of it, but that's completely wrong. I I wanna just go sit on the couch and eat a Cheeto.

SPEAKER_02

Not a sponsor.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, but even if it's only one. Yeah, even if yeah, Cheeto. Cheeto. Cheeto singular. But it's just wrong. I mean, if we gotta keep the goal the goal, it's not winning the Olympics, it's not making the Super Bowl, it's living long, healthy, and uh enjoying life. I mean but see that's the thing. Like Am I diminishing my life if I don't compete at a high level? If I don't necessarily break myself, like if I'm that athlete, whatever it is, golf tournament, whatever stepping back to baby my injury, that might not fit with my goals.

SPEAKER_02

Well, again, you you you packed a whole bunch into that. You know, you said I'm gonna sit down and I'm gonna eat a cheetah. One, okay. Well, we need to avoid that trap, that sort of falling into stopping completely. There's a big difference between deloing, training intelligently, and stopping. Yeah. So I mean, we know where that is. You said, okay, am I going to affect the longevity of my life if I don't compete at a high level? Right. What's a high level? Oh. You know, I mean, my brother works with athletes for wrestling. Okay. And one of the kids said, My goal is to be state champion. All right. I'm I'm glad you are a pie in the sky dreamer. You are not going to be a state champion. Oh, wow. That's cold. I don't even know this kid. And I hate you for saying that. Well, I hate my brother. It was Timmy that said it. But the concept here is set realistic goals. And we've talked about that in the past. What is realistic? Okay, you know, compete at a super high level. For me, that's nationals. Okay. There are others who are vying for their pro card and they're my age. I don't have it. So it's setting realistic goals.

SPEAKER_01

This is this is where I will push my newest mental thing. Yeah. No, this is like if this was if this were a textbook, this would be the little blue box next to the words, little sidebar.

SPEAKER_02

I like that.

SPEAKER_01

Thanks. Um, I'm I I don't believe you, but I like it. I'm not I'm not into goals these days. I am into systems. I am I have researched a lot of this because here's the reality. Like your friend the wrestler who wants to be state champion.

SPEAKER_02

He's not my friend, I don't know the kid.

Accessory Work And Rehab Mindset

SPEAKER_01

That is not a definable goal. Because think about it. If no one showed up at states, he would win. Uh the system is to train at a high level to walk into that competition as good as you can be. And then the rest is a kind of a spreadsheet thing. Like I like I threw Shaw put in high school and college, right? And it felt like a competition, but if you take a step back, no other athlete had any impact on what I did.

SPEAKER_02

No, and I agree with you in that sense.

SPEAKER_01

Wrestling's a little bit different than that. It is a little different because there's somebody trying to murder you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

But I'm gonna counter your I don't have a goal, I have a system, with in order to have a goal and actually reach it, you have to have a system. This is true. Okay, and I think that's where it is. But to agree with your point, you know, you said, okay, so nobody, if nobody else shows up, I'm automatically the state champion. We know certain athletes around here who look for competitions where they are the only person in their class, and then that person will walk out and say, Look, I want a strong man. Look, I want a this, I want a that. Or they will complain and whine and moan and get their own weight class designed. Is that me? No, that wasn't you, okay, you know, to to win this or to win that. And I get that, you know, when I went to nationals and something happened to me that year that really is not Scotlike. I don't get nervous in competitions. And it's not because of arrogance, it's just it's I I know what I'm gonna do.

SPEAKER_01

Right. You put in you put in the work, right? I mean, uh that that's a thing, and that's that's probably if again, if we do the mindset episode. If you're well prepared for a competition, you're you're probably excitement nervous moves into excitement. Right.

SPEAKER_02

And I mean, I I think what happened is I went there and I was talking to my trainer, and I said, So how do you think I'm gonna do? He goes, You're gonna lift the weights. See? And and Tony, you know, I mean, metaphorically looked at me because I was in Denver for that one. Yeah. And he said, You're either gonna lift the weights or you're not. You're either going to lift more weight than somebody else or you're not.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, and then he asked, did he ask you what the sound of one hand clapping was? And then did he like stroke his long white beard like a Chinese sensei in a bad karate movie? And is Tony gonna kill me at some point? Yes. Okay, damn it.

SPEAKER_02

But I mean, it it it and that's that fatal viewpoint that you just sort of pointed out. Yeah, you're either gonna do it or you're not. Right. Okay, that's that. How do you define what is I am going to do it? To me, that's part of the goal. All right. I went into this year's nationals, the one that was in um North Carolina this past summer, and I wanted to be on the podium. There were a lot of things that sort of prevented that this year. But at one point it was okay, this is you know, the the deadlift event. I'm a really good deadlifter. And I knew that I wanted to take first place in that event. So my goal modified a little bit. It was an on-the-spot change, but it did. So, and that can happen with us. So, no, you don't have to participate at a super high level, but you've got to do something that sort of defines the system, to use your word, right of what you're trying to do.

SPEAKER_01

Right. So, bringing it back to injury versus oui.

SPEAKER_02

I love that you adopted.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, now we're on the spectrum between oui and injury. Aoi and oh damn. I I think you need to push yourself to that, you know, I'm I'm I can still sleep at night, but I'm doing something.

SPEAKER_02

Well, that goes back to what we just said a few minutes ago in that is life affected by what happened.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's can you sleep at night? That's just the reality. I can't break myself and not be able to work. I mean, that's that's not as a master's athlete.

SPEAKER_02

We don't have that luxury anymore.

unknown

Yeah.

Final Takeaways And Sign‑Off

SPEAKER_01

But I mean, think about it. All right, so your shoulder. Let's let's bring this to a little more like John Q public kind of thing. Your shoulder you hurt your shoulder. You could ride a bike. You could bike all over the place. I mean, you would look like a dancing bear on a bicycle, but I wouldn't be dancing, I would be holding after your life. It's been a long time. But yeah, I mean, your your lower body's fine. I mean, it's chunky, and I don't know how you got those pants on, but I mean your lower body would be fine to exercise, to continue on. You you could still run. I mean No, don't go there.

SPEAKER_02

Just go somewhere else for just for the humility of it, okay?

SPEAKER_01

No, but think about it, because I mean, we've pivoted, I mean, I've pivoted from track to Highland to strongman to grip to stone lifting, and some of that has been precluded by the fact that you know my cholesterol was 1100 and my A1C was 13, and I needed to lose 100 pounds. And Highland Games really was conducive to that. Yeah, Highland Games favors the chonky. So uh yeah, uh, but I still, you know, I kept moving.

SPEAKER_02

And I think that's the thing, you know, we've talked a lot about how we've pivoted in the last what five years. Yeah. And you know, we know we have other pivots that are still coming that we're we're exploring already. But it it does look at it, and you've got to be real with yourself because you do have to live life. Yeah. So what happens? All right, so I get injured. Yep. How'd you injure yourself?

SPEAKER_01

What is it? Now what?

SPEAKER_02

Like just in general. Okay, so I I guess you know, I I kind of off the cuff asked you that question, but I think that's a real question. That's when you start talking even more to your doctor, to your physical therapist. What can I do? Because you know, when I was doing therapy for my shoulder, they give you just uh a ton of different exercises that help you to start to develop the real muscles again. I went in and I was uh like the second time I went in for a session, and there was a a gentleman there, probably our age, you know, 50s, maybe a little or a little younger. And he said, What'd you do? And I said, Oh, I said it's just it's you know, accumulated decades of wear and tear. He says, Oh, I had mine replaced. That's a real thing. I mean, think about our friend Tim who just had his knee redundant. No, it's a real thing. They go through and they learn how to start strengthening and adapting. And I think that's part of the answer to your question is you go to those professionals, and again, we're gonna have, you know, Carl's gonna come on, you know, within the next month or so, uh a licensed physical therapist, and talk about how those impact life and what exercise injury can mean for the master's athlete and keeping going in life.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and I mean, there's there's so many modalities out there now, right? Like like I did the hyperbaric thing, which is great for tendon health, which tendons are notoriously hard to deal with. Uh, you know, it crams about as much oxygen as it can in there to really promote some healing. You know, there are surgical, you know, there are, I don't know, the drugs galore and way beyond masking uh, you know, like taking 17 Tylenol, which I which I feel like I've done in my life, by the way. But and I know nothing about all these peptides. You know, supposedly that's the next big thing. I know nothing. I I I will probably research them at some point. We're gonna miss that wave because of age, but maybe. I don't know. I'm I'm I'm gonna live forever. I I'm fighting I'm fighting with Eric for the uh Masters eighty year old deadlift world record.

SPEAKER_02

The song from Flash Court is Wants to Who Wants to Live Forever.

SPEAKER_01

Um, do we know what the the current Masters men's eighty? I don't think there is one. I think Eric said there wasn't one. Oh, there isn't one. So we're we're I'm I'm older than him, so I'll set it first. I like a for what about 13 seconds? That's okay. That's all I need. You know, I'm I am very comfortable with the moniker of former world record holder. We know this, Mr. Delican. Yeah, no, I was yeah, I was I will milk the crap out of that. That's fine.

SPEAKER_02

So we talked a little bit about you know what can we do or injured. This is where accessory work comes in too, I think. You know, um how do we work around it without giving up? Because the giving up, and I think that's one of the big things that we should talk about for a minute or so, is at this age, you're right. We have to be careful. You know, things when they break, they don't heal as fast. Things when they rupture, you know, we don't even like the word rupture, let alone having something rupture. But you hit on this earlier. Oh hell I'm delicate, I'll just stop. Yep. And I think that is at least in my mind, as painful and as problematic as if you tried to train through it.

SPEAKER_01

Restarting, restarting is the worst. I'm glad that you're doing it. Yeah, but yeah, restarting is the worst. It keep going because stopping and restarting is a mammoth, mammoth undertaking when it's both mental and physical, as far as the first thing happens if you stop, you're gonna fill in that time of your day with some other nonsense. Like food. Like food. I like food. Food good. Uh food is good. Um, you know, it you're gonna experience a little bit of atrophy. You're you're gonna, I mean, the the mental load on the you know, sitting at the end of the bar, I used to be able to do X. Um, that that happens way faster, I think, than people realize. And even more so the older you get. Yeah, yeah. Because I'm I'm sure I don't know this, because again, I'm I only play a doctor on the podcast. Um I play a doctor in real life, and you don't give me shit for it. So let I like the phrase play doctor because that's probably as close as they've gotten to really any medical thing. And I'm sure you were nine and little Sally like with Susie. Susie. I forgot her name, I apologize. That's right. But uh yeah, no, the fake doctor thing aside, I just I don't know at some point there's gotta be a threshold where it I don't want to say it's impossible to restart, but it's gotta be such a cliff to climb up.

SPEAKER_02

We do a lot of work in education with how the psychology of learning versus you know actually learning itself. What do we have to do to stimulate the the student's mind to keep them involved? How do we sort of deliver ownership of what we're doing? And we're talking about the same thing right now because you know, the endorphins that are released when you work out, you get hooked on those, and that's not a bad thing. But when you stop, how do you get restarted? Oh, well, I'll do this. Oh, well, I'll start on Monday. My God, the number of times that I've said in my career, oh, I'll start Monday, I'll start the first of the week, the first of the month. Jesus, how many months are there that I've said that?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you know, yeah, and I think a lot of time a lot of time can pass. And it can bleed into everything. I mean, suddenly you're not running your household well, and your work suffers, and everything comes, you know. Maybe Monday I'll deal with that. That's the bigger thing.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, I'll I'll get to it on Monday. Yeah. Well, Monday never comes, you know, and and that's the problem. Yeah. So yes, sir. Okay, here's my question for you. Let let's because we've really danced in a lot of areas.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I know. This has gone all over the place. It's not what I expected when I was just wondering about how to deal with an injury, but I like it.

SPEAKER_02

But we've we've really kept dancing around that sort of central theme of it. And I think one of the things that we've come to is don't stop. Don't stop. You know, figure a way around it. Don't train through it. By through it, I mean don't try to fight through the pain.

SPEAKER_01

I think you can, but you you need a village around you. You need to personally be intelligent, like like physically intelligent. So you're saying not like what I do. Exactly. Okay. So, you know, you can fight through an injury, but again, you need to understand your body and probably have a lot of training years under your belt. You probably need one or two external sources of guidance, right? A trainer, a physical therapist, a doctor, another high-level athlete, somebody. Because just gritting your teeth and going through it might work. Uh, you know, Candace comes to mind.

SPEAKER_02

Like, hey, let's make it worse, though.

SPEAKER_01

Let's run for 24 hours, right?

SPEAKER_02

And then a week later, try to set a 5K record, yeah, personal record.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it sounds I mean, so it's doable, but again, she's got, you know, she's an intelligent trainer, decades of experience.

SPEAKER_02

Yep, she's a registered nurse. Yep. So I mean, she she's got background.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so you can fight through it, but I think me, like Joe Blow on the street, that is not necessarily the the out-of-the-box approach. I I think you can get there. I think if like, you know, if you if you really, like, especially you with your shoulder, if you wanted to, you could probably learn all there is to know about shoulder and shoulder rehab and prehab and how to how to add uh you know how to do adaptations. But uh, you know, if I if I'm trying to just get a little better at pickleball, maybe don't hit your pinky. Don't hit my pinky. Yeah, it's that simple. Maybe just wear a pinky guard. Is that a thing? I may invent that. So we started this podcast episode with you being delicate.

SPEAKER_02

I am, and we're finishing it with you being delicate.

SPEAKER_01

You know, I think we've come full circle. I was gonna say that book ends it pretty nicely. In the in the spectrum of Aoi versus injury, I am all I I cover it all. On any given day.

SPEAKER_02

You are a walking oui.

SPEAKER_01

I am Aoi, I am injury, I am everything in between. I am woman, hear me roar.

SPEAKER_02

I think that's the uh I think the title of this episode is the uh the rice crispies episode, that snap crackle pop that we hear all the time.

SPEAKER_01

Oh what does it mean? Yeah, uh yeah, that that's true. I think that that's just background music. That just that that's how I go to bed at night. It's like I just bend my knees a little bit and it's like, oh, it's like a roaring fire, but it's coming out of my knees. My knees. Yeah, great. Well, yes, sir. I'm still Scott. Oh no, this is the end? This is the end. Oh, it's the end. Did we learn stuff?

SPEAKER_02

I learned stuff.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, I always learn stuff from myself. Nice. I am my biggest fan. Nice. Who are you, by the way?

SPEAKER_02

Uh, right now I am gonna look at the tag in my shirt. I'm Scott. That's it. I'm Scott.

SPEAKER_01

I see. He's got the label on the inside of his underwear. If if lost, please return me to Lockport, New York. I am John, I am delicate, and this was a podcast. Have a great night, folks. Bye. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with others, post it on your social media, or leave a review. To catch all the latest from us, you can follow us on Instagram at Masters Athlete Survival Guide. Thanks again. Now get off our lawn, you damn kids.