Season 3 Episode 3: The Body Knows A conversation with Somatic Therapist And Philosopher Tamara (Cuchira) Levinson

This is one of my top converstaions so far. 

Tamara aka Cuchira is a one of a kind person who's work is so original and so NEEDED at this time. Our conversation begins with her childhood as an olympic gymnast, her career as a professional dancer and choreographer working with the likes of Madonna, to what she really values the most which is her work helping bring people back to the core of who they really are as human beings. We talk about life and death and her husbands Rubens miraculous recovery after a sudden life threatening illness, and practical ways in which we can all begin to listen to the body more, to help us regulate, heal and grow.

I felt so expanded and on such a beautiful high after this conversation for days on end, its conversations like this that I started this podcast for. There are many ways to work with Tamara online and in person and she has a beautiful retreat in Mexico coming up in November, please scroll down to the bottom for all the links and contact info.

Tamara's Bio:

 Tamara “Cuchira” Levinson

It all began in 1976, when Tamara was born in Buenos Aires, Argentina, to loving, extraordinary parents who made space for her artistry and expression to unfold without interference, only support. This is where the work was first born. Her earliest memory is at age five, alone in her room, moving, sounding, expressing the ancestral pain she carried into this world through her body, along with any residual energies she absorbed. For young Tamara, somatic therapy had no name, nor had she been taught to do it, it was innate. And because there was no conditioning that shamed her for this instinctive release, she continued throughout her entire life, now 50 years in. It became her life’s work. Not from a book or a school, but from the classroom of life.

This explains much of Tamara’s accomplishments; all born from passion, raw talent, and an unmatched discipline learned from her immigrant parents, determined to create a comfortable life for their family in the United States of America.

At fifteen, the American dream materialized when she qualified for the 1992 Olympic Games in rhythmic gymnastics. Tamara still holds the American record for the highest placement ever achieved in a non‑boycotted World Championships or Olympic Games. After a successful athletic career, she retired at nineteen and moved to New York City to become a professional dancer.

This was a new world in every way; from how her body was trained to move, to finally having the chance to discover herself as a human being. Dance opened her mind to how movement could become the paintbrush of her internal world. And New York City gave her the freedom to explore herself without rules or expectations. Immersed in the vogue and underground dance scene of the 1990s, Tamara was breathing the artistry and raw expression she had channeled as that five‑year‑old wilding out in her room.

That energy manifested into dancing alongside Madonna on three world tours, and with pop artists such as Avril Lavigne, Miley Cyrus, Rihanna, Ricky Martin, and more. She helped create a Broadway show based on Bob Dylan’s music with the legendary Twyla Tharp, curated performance art pieces throughout the city, and eventually felt her Argentine roots rise again when off‑Broadway called. She joined the immersive, aerial, avant‑garde theatre group ‘De La Guarda’ and ‘Fuerzabruta’, where she scaled walls to strobe lighting and rave music, bungee-jumped off ceiling rafters, body‑slammed and slid wildly across a massive mylar pool suspended above the audience’s heads. One could say Tamara lived it all without apology.

She later spent time in Los Angeles, expanding her dance and choreography career into television, stage, music videos, and film; including choreographing the aerial scenes with Zendaya and Hugh Jackman in ‘The Greatest Showman’.

Yet even with a dream résumé, something was missing; that five‑year‑old who longed for primitive, raw emotional expression. This led her to begin teaching dance from an emotive point of view. But it wasn’t as simple as asking dancers to retreat from choreography and feel; that felt too frightening for many. So she entered through YogaDance: a creation born during her yoga teacher training, when she was asked to design a sequence. When she demonstrated it, she was told she couldn’t connect two postures with such creative, flowing transitions. YogaDance took off, and Tamara taught it at festivals and studios around the world.

Naturally, it evolved into what later became MovMEANT; long before somatic therapy was widely known, when people called her “the crazy dancing lady.” They arrived curious and left transformed. That shift became the trajectory in MovMEANT: somatic activation classes that inspired aliveness. But in time, Tamara noticed that the lack of integration left her students feeling abandoned after ‘getting somatically high’ of the classes. And by then, she had been working through her own wounds and traumas, just as she had as a little girl, calling something from deep within. She knew, something deeper was calling. As usual, she followed her instincts without hesitation.

Thus, a private practice emerged from her students’ need to integrate the deep work done in her classes. And again, the work deepened : beyond body, beyond narrative — into the realms of trauma work, emotional intelligence, shadow work, life‑doula guidance, and somatic philosophy.

Not much has changed from the five‑year‑old channeling ancient, primitive energy in her bedroom, to the adult who now guides people toward that same source. The only difference is that now she has words for it. What makes Tamara’s work unique among somatic therapy or shadow‑work modalities is that it is not a method or a system — it is a God‑given talent she came to earth with, to help people free themselves and honor their authentic self. To help them realize that each person carries an innate gift longing to be seen and shared in this lifetime. Her work gives space to the rawness of humanity. The parts of us that don’t need to be educated and tamed, but released into the wild.

Tamara, also known as Cuchira (her superhero name), offers retreats, online classes, an anger course coming soon, and 1:1 sessions online or in person if you can make your way to Portugal, where she now resides.

website:  https://www.beyond-narrative.com

Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/cuchira

Retreat Yelapa: https://2026retreat.beyond-narrative.com

Email: cuchiracuchira@outlook.com 

What’s app Group:https://chat.whatsapp.com/D8aEhdFd40b7LkkUzC01er

If you have any comments, questions or anything you would like to hear about related to this podcast, I'd love to hear from you.

Please feel free to message me on Instagram or email me here: info@shraddhayayoga.co.uk

You can follow me on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/shraddhaya_yoga/

Or why not find out how we can work together with Yoga & meditation classes, courses and 1:1 coaching here: https://www.shraddhayayoga.co.uk/

With love and light,

Helen xxx

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:02

Welcome to Be Still and Notice, a Yoga podcast. Join me, your host, Yoga and Meditation Instructor Helen Taylor, to dive deeply into the vast ocean of wisdom that is yoga. Explore with me how these ancient practices can help heal and elevate us physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually in an ultra-modern world. Together we'll deepen our practice, explore our connection to divinity and our own inner landscapes with the help of special guests, guided meditations, how-tos, and all so much more. Yoga has the incredible power to change your life on every level. And it all begins with stillness.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

Now let's begin.

SPEAKER_04 1:25

Oh my goodness, this has got to be my favorite episode, one of my favorite episodes so far. So I am so delighted to have you listen to this, and I hope you get as much from this conversation as I did. I felt so expanded on every level after this conversation with this incredible, incredible woman. So her name is Tamara aka Kuchira Levinson, and she's an Argentinian born, but now lives uh grew up in the US and lives in Portugal with her husband. And Tamara is an incredible, one-of-a-kind person who what she does is really hard to put into words, but she started her life in gymnastics and competed at the Olympics, and then she moved into dance, and her offerings now are absolutely incredible. She calls herself a life doula, which I absolutely love, and a somatic philosopher and therapist, and really what Tamara does is she teaches people how to come into their own body. She teaches people the innate intelligence of the body and why it's such a key part of our existence and expression, emotional regulation, our mental health, just our whole holistic well-being, why it's so important to really talk the body's language and to listen to what the body has to say. And she has so many amazing offerings, which um I am going to be sharing in the show notes. And I personally came across Kuchira I say in the episode, um, someone else I was following on Instagram, their stories, and I was just so drawn to her presence, her wildness, and her ability to have absolutely no ego, and I think that's very, very rare in this world. Tamara to me is someone who is completely connected to Source. Um, we talk a lot about her childhood, her parents, and her life, and she lives her life so fully and so honestly. I was gonna say honesty in rhythm and in alignment with what she teaches, and that again I think is very, very rare in this world. Tamara also gives really practical ways that we can each come into our own bodies on a daily basis. Um, it's a beautiful conversation. Uh, she shares about her beautiful doggies that she has, the death of her doggy capo, and um her husband Reuben, who uh who clinically died a couple of years ago and then miraculously fully recovered after a liver transplant, like really miraculous, incredible story, and I just love her perspective on death and life, spirit and source. And but really the core of the core of our conversation is why the body is a key part of our healing, our expansion, our growth, um, our very existence as human beings. Um so it's a really good one. Like I said, I felt so expanded for days afterwards. So I invite you to get comfortable, as always, grab a nice cupper, settle in, and I really hope you enjoy this beautiful conversation.

SPEAKER_02 5:45

Hello, hello, hello Helen.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

We had a little chat before this, so we've been acquainted, but hi everybody out there.

SPEAKER_02 5:56

Yeah, you're included in this conversation.

SPEAKER_04 6:00

We've actually had to go, hang on a minute, let's press record because Yeah, we were already getting into it. We were already getting into it. So, first of all, um I'm gonna call you Tamara, is that okay?

SPEAKER_02 6:13

That's wonderful, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Where does the name Kuchira come from? I'm not sure. Kuchira's my my superhero name.

SPEAKER_00 6:22

Do you want the full story? Yeah, sure. I mean, the full story is basically, and I'm sure we'll get into this more, but I I grew up as an athlete, so as an athlete, life is very rigorous and exact and trained and focused. And it's just that is your life. There's no other life outside of that. And so then when I finally left the sport of rhythmic gymnastics, um, at like 18, I moved to New York City to become an artist, a dancer, an explorer, just curious person, a person, because as an athlete, you're not a person, you're a robot, you're a machine, you get a job done. And I compete at a very high level. So that was my whole life. So when I moved to New York City, I started to explore all the facets of myself. And I eventually got into this um off-Broadway show, which was wild. It was like this wild rave. Literally, we were like jumping from rafters on bungees, running up walls. I mean, it was like insane. Anything was allowed. I don't even know how they allowed the things that we did, to be honest with you. And in that show, um, I discovered Kuchira. And Kuchira, coochie, you know, coochie, pubis, vagina, right?

SPEAKER_04 7:40

Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

Um she spoke from there. She was like, like that was her power.

SPEAKER_04 7:47

And she was like, an alter ego, like your your other personality.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

I don't I don't think it was my alter ego. I think it's me that I never got to discover. And so I just let her rip, literally. I let Kuchira do whatever she wants. And the show was um from Argentina, which is my where I'm was born. And so the the codes of the Argentine people are are much different than the Americans. We're much more like free and wild. We dance, we sing, you know. So it just let me fully explore the central, the sexual, the wild, the beast, the raw. And she, Kuchira, gave me permission to do that. And so that's kind of what it was. And then Instagram came around. Instagram wasn't a thing, and I didn't think anybody would follow me. I didn't know, we didn't know what Instagram was at that time, right? Yeah, so I was like, uh, I don't know, Kuchira, you know, at Kuchira. And then everybody started calling me Kuchira because they thought that was my name, which I thought was really cool. Because I'm like, yeah, because that's actually who I am. I am Kuchira, you know. Yeah, I love her.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

So yeah, yeah, yeah. So she's cool. She's cool.

SPEAKER_04 8:55

Well, I have to say, so a little bit, little bit of background. Um, yeah, let's go back. Thank you so much for coming on. I mean, I've been following you. So Instagram is how I found you on someone else's story. Someone else shared this story of yours, and I was like magnetized by your energy, this wild, kind of free. It was I was watching you move and it it made me tingle, and and it awakens something, and I'm sure you hear this all the time, something in me that was like, oh, what is this? And so it's probably been about six years that I've been following you and watching from afar. And um I think what you do is just so so powerful. So that's why I reached out and wanted to speak to you so so we could have a have a deeper conversation, share what you do because I think it's so so needed now. Thank you, Helen. You see me, you see me for sure. I can already tell. So um, so you describe yourself, so just so people know what you do, because it's I don't it's sometimes it can be quite difficult to kind of label what you do because what you do is so different. Like we've had this conversation, haven't we, that what you do isn't really being, I don't see anyone else really doing anything like what you do. So, how would you describe to someone that's never met you, never seen you what you do? The work you do.

SPEAKER_00 10:35

Simplest way, what I do is I remind you of your humanity. I remind you how to be human. Because I think we live in a world that that really takes that away from us, you know, at all facets of our life. It's trying to pull us away from our humanity. And when I say humanity, I mean like the primitive parts of us, the parts of us that, as you said, you know, when you first saw me, there was a pool. Why was there a pool? Because you saw in me what you have in you, and you know, and we can all see that that like raw expression, that fearlessness of being who you truly are. Um, which is why I would say be beautiful, because we are the most beautiful when we are who we are, and we only really know how to be who we are. That's what we know. It's like innate. And so I'm always my work is really always coming back to. Now it's very popular to say, like becoming who you already are, but it really is that it's coming back to the soul's calling, coming back to your true self, coming back to who was already born the day that you were birthed, literally. And that can sound really easy, but is so not, as we all know. And it's a practice, a constant practice of honoring self and remembering, remembering, remembering, remembering. I do that firstly through the body. I would say body first, because I think that the body is the most raw organism. It's where we live, literally in our bodies, it's home. You cannot escape it, you cannot put it for rent, you cannot sell it. It is with you from beginning to end of journey, right? And again, the world tries to pull us away from our bodies. And so a way to come back to who you are is through the body first. Also, the body doesn't um it doesn't compromise, it doesn't negotiate. It just is an intelligent, uh present tool, we could say. So that would be the first thing. And then the second thing is, of course, mind. Mind is powerful, mind is necessary, mind isn't is, you know, a lot of somatic therapists or somatic teachers, um, I think pull only towards body, but I think we are body, mind, spirit, soul. Like it's emotional, it's all connected. So they have to, it has to be a cohesion, it has to be a fluid dance between all. So then I'll I'll take it to mind and then mind, body have conversations, you know, like lovers, like friends, um not like enemies and not like uh strangers, which is I think what a lot of people do. A lot of people don't even realize that there's well, two beings within you, mind, body, but also I see us as like Russian doll set. You take the doll out, you pull out another, you take the there's many bodies within bodies within bodies within bodies. So these are kind of like all my theories. So to simplify this, it would be body first, then it would be the authentic impulse, right? Like your authentic, and then it would be beyond the narrative. So you have the narrative, and then you strip away beyond narrative, beyond narrative, beyond narrative. So these are the kind of the three themes I work with.

SPEAKER_04 14:03

Wow, there's so much. Yeah, I know there's a lot there. Amazing. No, but but honesty, it's amazing. And I know you have a little bit, there's a a little bit of yoga experience in there, isn't there? So we can probably come back to that later if you want to talk about it. But um, there's so many, there's actually a lot of similarities, isn't there, with the the philosophy of essential kind of embodiment coming back to yourself being present, being in the moment, and this these energetic layers. Like we're not, like you say, we're not just one thing, are we? We are so many things all at once, so many things, and at the same time, nothing at all.

SPEAKER_00 14:39

Exactly. That's why it gets so confusing, you know.

SPEAKER_02 14:42

Yeah, yeah, it's a massive head fuck.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Yeah, it is, which is why you can't go to the head, which is why you have to go to body first, point proven.

SPEAKER_04 14:52

Yeah, yeah, because the body is so honest, isn't it? It's so like you say, raw, and that raw intelligence. So, so you would describe yourself as a somatic philosopher.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

Yeah, so that's what I say. I'm a somatic philosopher, and and why? Why is that? Even though I'm a somatic therapist, even though I know the body in and out. Um, I go to the word philosophy because I'm curious about it in a much deeper way than just let's do this exercise, let's tap, let's, you know, I think all of that is still working on the superficial surface. I'm actually very not interested in the superficial surface because it's like a band-aid to a wound, you know, it's gonna make you feel okay for a while, but then you're not gonna get past that. Like you can use certain somatic techniques to make you feel better, and people usually think, okay, I'm healed. That worked. But what will happen is the closer you get to the door, which is what I call like the transcendence, right? To awakening to the other side, to enlightenment, these are all big words that I'm not a fan of, but we use them to explain this thing that cannot be explained, right? So the closer that you get to the door, the less all these somatic exercises will work. And so people on this journey to like coming to their true self start to realize that, oh, now the shaking out doesn't work, the activation doesn't work, the tapping doesn't work, and all these things don't work because now it you're stripping away, you're stripping away, stripping away, stripping away. So, how are you gonna get to to source, to root, back to self? The only way is to actually question things, to think about them in a deeper sense, right? To philosophize a little bit, but not through mind, because this is where it gets tricky. You don't want to get heady about this stuff. So as a somatic philosopher, I try to almost have these um sensation conversations with myself, right? Like I'm always peeking in, almost like I imagine I work a lot with imagery because we're talking about the formless world. There has to be some sort of image to be able to understand this stuff. So I think of my body as like having a million doors that I can open, little doors. Doop, doop, doop, doop, doop, right? And I can go inside. And each door that I open, there's like something new to discover. And those doors are endless through tissue, through muscle, through organ, and then beyond into like I think beyond this is just space, space, space, space. So I have a million doors that I can look through that I can question, and one door can take me to the other. And then I have this amazing maze inside of me that that can deliver all sorts of answers that lead to other questions, and you see how I can go and go and go. But ultimately, what you start to realize as you peek through all these somatic doors is that every door will take you to the same place in the end. And that that becomes a real mind fuck because you're like, what? What? You know. So that that's kind of how the somatic philosophy works. And this is really what I guide people through, which is why it's impossible to label and impossible to explain. But, and people are like, What are you even talking about tomorrow? The thing is, when you come and do this work with me, it's actually wild how much it makes sense and how easy it is because it's innate. Yeah, when we talk about it, it sounds so complex, like complex and confusing, right? Because this is a world without words that we're talking about. Yeah, we all know the words because we carry them, we feel them all day, every day, and it doesn't go away. And the more you ignore it, the louder it gets.

SPEAKER_04 18:39

Yeah. I I I had a teacher who one of my teachers, I've been blessed with my teachers, Freddie. She we were in India and she said to me, You can never teach, bringing it back to yoga, you can never teach yoga, you can't teach it. You have to experience it. That's how it is. It's exactly the same, right? Because you can't, like you say, you're talking about something that's completely without shape, without form. Words can't describe it, and now I'm getting all tingly. Words can't describe it, it's completely, you know, music doesn't, I mean, music might take you closer, but until you experience that feeling, then you go, oh, is that what you're talking about? It's like, oh, okay, now I get it. Now I get where I'm, you know, going.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

Yeah, absolutely. And and the thing is, like, because our lives in general, of course, we all experience different lives different ways, but in general, the life of today seems to be more static than ever, more external than ever. I mean, we are on these phones like maniacs, you know, we're like this. It's just wild. We're getting further and further and further away from ourselves. So when when people come to me, maybe the first section is just an activation session, right? Where we're moving, we're screaming, we're bringing back the primitive body. And and that's like a drug. I mean, when when you feel that aliveness again, it's like, ah, and all this emotion arises. It's so easy to access because it's on the skin. It hasn't been awakened in a long time. But the more that you do the work, actually, the quieter it gets, the less movement it has, you know? And and it's an interesting thing because I find that that first session where that big activation happens, hooks people in, then they want that drug again because it feels so good to be alive, that then they seek it all the time. But this is when like the transition between like seeking yet another drug and actually having the conversation, relationship with body starts to like morph. And so, I mean, I think I'm just I don't know where I'm going with this, but I'm I think I'm trying to give this practice a little bit of shape and dance because it's so difficult to explain. But it is it is like life, it's like a roller coaster is up and down. I mean, essentially you're just building relationship with self, always with self because we're always so external, everything is always so external.

SPEAKER_04 21:13

Yeah, yeah. And so just to take it back, because um I always ask uh people that come on to give me a little bio, and it's you sent me a really amazing bio that was really lovely to read, actually. And in that you talk about, you know, basically being your five-year-old self in your bedroom, and and you're still still like your five-year-old self dancing and being wild. And and can you just talk a little bit about your journey a little bit? Because I know it's not your favourite thing to talk about, but you've had this incredible career. So just uh talking a little bit about that and how you've got to where you are now.

SPEAKER_00 21:54

Yeah, so this is kind of like in two separate parts for me, this question. So, one thing is my career, and the other is the Year old self. And they actually, it's interesting because people always put them together, but to me, they're very separate, incredibly separate. Um, so the career, first, the career is uh I was born in Argentina. I came to the United States when I was five. Um, my mother saw that I had a lot of, we'll call it energy. Um, so she put me in gymnastics and I was very small, very flexible. Um, and so I I did gymnastics, so it went well, but I didn't have a lot of strength because I was so tiny. So at age, I think it was like 11 or so, a rhythmic gymnastics. For those that don't know, rhythmic gymnastics, like the ribbon, the hoop, the ball, it's a different sport. A rhythmic gymnastics came into my gym, and so I was like, oh, what's that? And so I transferred to rhythmic gymnastics. My body just took on to it really well. It was like came to me very easily. And by 15, I was competing at the Olympic Games representing the United States. I was world, um, I was national champion, and I had this big career, and that was like really my life from age five to 18. I was an athlete, a professional athlete. That's all I knew, and and that's what I lived and died for. Incredible struggle, incredible sacrifice. It was not easy. Um, yeah, I don't I look back at that, to me, that was like a completely different life and a completely different human. But what it taught me was an insane amount of discipline, like the the power of the mind, truly, the power of the mind to stick to something that is incredibly difficult. I mean, I was like starved to death. Um, it was a little bit, I would say, abusive. Yeah, um, yeah, but I think anything that takes you to such a high level will be, if you abuse yourself or if your coach abuses you, then you you have to push yourself to a limit. So my mind became very, very strong there. Um, yeah, and so then that eventually when I when I left the sport at 18, I just had an insane need to express myself because sport is not expression, it's perfection. You're seeking perfection.

SPEAKER_04 24:23

And performance, would you say? Would you say it's no?

SPEAKER_00 24:27

Not even sport is not performance. It's you're there to get a score to win. So the the goal is only to win, you win through perfection. So the performance and the expression um came later through dance, where I was like started to question like, but who am I? Like, who's tomorrow? Because right now I'm a machine. I can get things done, I can make it perfect, I will, I will work hard, you know, to accomplish. So, but then I was like, who who am I? So I moved to New York City at 18, 19, and I the only thing I knew was body. I, you know, this was my this was my craft. So I was like, okay, let me try to be a dancer. But what I didn't understand was that dance was very different, it had nothing to do with sport. So it was essentially starting over. I had to learn, you know, counts and rhythm, and I had been dancing through my gymnastics career for sure. I'd done like a lot of jazz and a lot of ballet, but not as like the heart of it. Yeah, yeah. And then at that time, New York City was not the New York City we see now. It was very free. It was artistic, it was open, you know, it was like crazy. So I got to explore myself completely raw. I would go to the clubs, the underground clubs at night, and just dance for two days straight throughout the whole weekend, just dance and dance and dance and feel like there were um drummers there and like all sorts of like interesting people from from all over the world dancing in different ways, moving their bodies in different ways, being in different bodies. And to me, this was like a world that was like, ah, it was breath. It was freaking life worse. So I just like I chewed that up. And in the meantime, I was doing auditions to try to get work, which was actually very difficult for me because I didn't grow up in that world. So my whole expression was completely different, and the way I looked didn't really fit that world. I was little, I was weird, I was I was called the other, you know. I didn't fit into like, I wasn't a Barbie that fit into this group or that group.

SPEAKER_04 26:42

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

I wasn't curvy, I wasn't thick, you know, the music videos they wanted like that kind of sexy girl. But the thing is that I was so kind of what you were talking about at the beginning. There was something that like drew people in. They were like, who's the weird little girl? You know? So they're like, okay, we'll hire all these really sexy girls that are like voluptuous, and then we'll hire the weird little girl. And we don't know what we're gonna do with her, but we'll put her in somewhere. I love that. Yeah, yeah. So that created like um a really cool career, like of being a soloist, which eventually um got me to work with Madonna on three world tours, and then a lot of things spiraled after that.

SPEAKER_03 27:23

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

Um so yeah, it became really successful. But what I always missed was the expression because even though I I went into dance thinking it would be expression, it wasn't. Dance was organized, it was choreography. Choreography are steps that are given to you that you have to follow to look like everyone else, and that was what structure is really another structure in a different form. And so now we go back to five-year-old Tamara, right? So five-year-old Tamara was extremely passionate to the point where the fire was burning 24-7. Like she could not be put out, which is why my mother put me in gymnastics. She was like, This girl, that's why I called it energy. I was like, This girl. I really say to my mom, like, if she hadn't put me in gymnastics, I really believe that I would be in prison. Really? Like, yes, because there was so much energy, and it wasn't violent and wasn't aggression, it was just like I don't even have a name for it. It wasn't rage. I think it was like a passion that had nowhere to go. Like a fire, like just a fire in you. That's the beast, that's the primitive, that's that, just the raw, authentic energy that in this world has nowhere to go because people take that raw authentic energy and label it. They label it mean, they label it bitchy if it comes from a woman. I've heard that a lot. They label it aggression, they label it anger, they label it rage. And I was like, is none of that, y'all? This is pure authentic passion of being alive and not having a place in this world to put it in a raw place without it being judged. And so I knew that from the moment I was born. I was born with this. This is my this is my gift. This is what I'm here to share, this is what I share, this is my work. You know, you ask me what I do, just what I do. Yeah. So if you have a name for it, let me know because I still haven't figured it out. I'll think on that.

SPEAKER_04 29:26

But can I just pause you there? Because I think this is like a really vital piece of this. You know, there's so much anger and there's so much division in the world right now, isn't there? And I can't help but think that if everyone could do something like you do, had could have that somewhere to channel in a safe space, somewhere to let it. I can feel it now. Like let it let it out, let it move through your body, get it out, get it out with no judgment, safety space. Just oh my god, what am I doing?

SPEAKER_00 30:05

You just describe you, just describe my private sessions. That's what they are. And it's so alleviating because when people are allowed to do that without the judgment and without having to explain it, you know, Helen, so annoying to have to explain yourself, especially emotions that don't have words, that don't even have reason. They just live in you and they're beautiful, you know. To me, those things aren't scary, they're human. Again, it's the human practice. It is so validating and alleviating. I mean, talk about regulation. That's regulation. It's not all these silly little practices people do. Regulation is I'm allowed to be who I am. Yeah, that's my definition for regulation. So when people come to me and they're allowed to do that and they really sense no place of judgment or limit, within 30 minutes, they always say to me, they're like, My God, I have been to 20 years of therapy, and I just feel like I got that all in one session here. Because this is the thing, you can talk about it to death, you can understand it. I have people that come to me that have had decades of therapy, understand their psyche back and forth. And they're like, Why do I still feel like this? Why do I still do what I do? Why? Because it lives in your body until the body has a chance to express it in its words, because this doesn't speak what this speaks, completely different language, then it will hold on, it will say, Let me speak, let me speak, let me speak. You see, but the moment it speaks, the body goes, ah, and why is that? Because emotions are meant to move. Emotions are energy in motion, totally they flow. This is this is literally who they are. You let them be who they are, oh that's it. You won't, you won't have it. That's done. You're done. You don't have to keep talking about it and talking about it and talking. And in fact, it makes it even worse. The more you talk about it, the more you feed the psyche, the more you're practicing the story, the narrative, the narrative. Remember, I said beyond narrative. If you move beyond the narrative, where do you have to go? First the body, then into body, and then beyond body. Now, now you're getting to the good stuff, the other world, the real world, the real world. Juicy stuff, the juicy stuff, the stuff that really matters.

SPEAKER_04 32:36

See, I I've got to pause you again because I think this is just so important for people to understand. And I have experienced exactly that. Um, so I've done a lot of, and we've talked about it a little bit, I've done a lot of talking therapy, but actually for me, the body, the body part came first. Interesting. And then I was like, I need to explore this through the mind. Yeah. But I've seen it with so many different people, friends of mine, people in my family, you know, clients. They are like you said, they understand and they label it. So I am this because of this. So say it's childhood trauma, or say it's um, and it's I'm not judging it anyone. It's it's so I am this because of this. They've understood it, like you say, they've understood it, they've talked about it intellectually, they know what it is. But there's this massive, like you say, there's this huge disconnect because your body holds the score, you know, Bessel. Your body knows, the body holds everything, and then it turns, they wonder why. For example, they've got chronic fatigue or diseases turning up, or just aching all the time, or just constant headaches, and and it's that body like literally shouting at you. For me, I last year I was in a really stressful situation, and I started getting very bizarre symptoms, like half of my face with spasm. I don't know if you've heard of that before, but um, it really scared me. I thought I was having a stroke, and I went and the doctor was like, You could have a brain tumor. Um, we're gonna need to send you for an MRI. I was going through perimenopause at the same time, and was starting to, and I saw it was clear, thank God, it was clear, and then I saw two neurologists, and no one could say what was wrong with me, but I knew I was just so stressed. My body was literally going, get out of your situation, get the fuck out of here, excuse my language, and and I was like, I have to I have to listen, it's literally going, come on, Helen, what are you? And as soon as I got out of that situation, it's not happened since.

SPEAKER_00 35:10

Of course, I see this all the time. We are a society that is taught to distrust our bodies, yeah, you know, and it's it's really a shame. And again, therapy is great, it's a necessary part of it, but it's a part of it. And most people only do that part, they only see healing or wholeness or having a relationship with themselves through the mind. I can understand the mind, I know what I'm doing, so it must it must be gone. But hey, you're forgetting about the entire rest of you, which is the body. And the body is screaming, the body is wise, the body is biologically built and designed to assist you through life. The body heals itself. Look at you, healed itself. Yeah, yeah, exactly. You know, just listen to it, let it do what it does. People are always so surprised with my work how quickly they can find um a sense of like beingness. I don't want to even call it peace or love. To me, it's not that. It's always like a sense of beingness, just by allowing expression to happen. But think about it. Like the worst thing, I think the thing that creates the most stress and the most disease in our bodies is denying who we are, denying our truth, denying what we really feel, shutting ourselves up, repressing it, keeping in, in, in, in, in, you stuff to start to stuff your body in with all this hate and all this like shame, right? Like, what's that gonna turn into? It's gonna turn into disease.

unknown 36:42

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:43

Doesn't make sense to me. And the route to to letting all that go is so simple. It's so it's so in fact, it's so simple that sometimes my clients that come to me, we do a session, and they're like, that's it? I'm like, yeah. Yeah, that's it. So you just want me to like like express it? I'm like, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:12

But isn't it funny? People want to, we are kind of conditioned, I guess, from an early age to to to look for more complication, to to to look beyond, like it has to be, it has to be something big, it has to be something very intellectual. And I don't know, like why is it do you think that we distrust the body so much? Where does that come from?

SPEAKER_00 37:37

Well, I think we're a society that from day one is taught to. I mean, look at our schools. I don't know about you, but when I went to school, I had to sit behind a desk, you know, most of the day. As a young kid, that's insane. Like that's that's not it. The you know, but also I think a lot of it comes from fear and lack of safety. The one thing that the body, in order for the body to be able to express authentically, it has to feel safe, right? And and a lot of people, most of us, did not grow up in a safe environment. I think that's why it still lives so purely in me, which is why I can it, I can share it, because I did grow up in a very safe environment. And going back to the five-year-old, I was allowed, given permission and space to rage and beast out, get wild and get savage without my parents interfering. They were like, oh, Tamana's doing what she's doing, you know. Ever since the earliest memory I have of me doing this practice is five, even though I'm sure it was before that, where I would just close the door of my room, get in there, and just go for it. Whatever. Scream, shout, laugh, cry. Um, you know, what honestly, what kids do. This is what kids do, right? Kids go from one emotion to the other. We're built this way. We know how to do this. One moment you're crying, the next you're like, mommy, I love you. The next are back up. They're like, yeah, and then they're like, ah, you know. And then who sleeps great at night? The kid. Because it went through the the innate flow of an emotion, completed the entirety of the emotion. The entire cycle of the emotion needs to be complete. We are cycles. Everything about us is cycles, right?

unknown 39:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:24

Cycle of birth and death, the cycle of a period of a menopause, the cycle of just a sneeze, right? The cycle of a laughter all the way through. To cut your laughter halfway hurts. A cycle of an orgasm. So we are cycles. Emotions work in cycles. Children have cycles that they complete. This is why they can then regulate, repair, and come back to base level. Where adults are taught or conditioned, yes, yes, repressed, no cycle, no cycle. So maybe you do a little bit of a cycle, you start to cry, and then maybe your dad may one day say, Don't cry. That's not how a boy should act. And then you learn, cut the cycle, right? You go to school, you you start, I don't know, to go through a cycle and someone bullies you. Oh, can't show that. Cut the cycle, right? So fear comes in, lack of safety comes in, and it cuts these cycles. Then we become adults with really short, short moments of a cycle. And yeah, every time you're becoming smaller and smaller and smaller. And you see that in the body, right? What happens in the body? The body becomes smaller, presence becomes smaller, voice gets quieter. You don't want to, right? So what I say is nah, fuck that. Right? As an adult, you go, that's terrifying because you've been so small for so long, so quiet for so long. But what happens if you just step into that little one moment of like fear and you surpass it, the body knows exactly what to do. And it goes because when you give the body permission, it says, thank you, and it starts! So you have this euphoric, amazing, activating experience of going through it. Not only one cycle, but 50 cycles from 50 years of repression. Right? So, what happens next? This is activation, and this is where a lot of somatic teachers get it wrong. And I got it wrong for a really long time too, and I had to figure this out. That's only the end of the cycle of activation. If you leave someone there, this could be even more traumatizing because nothing has been integrated or processed. It's just energy, you've just moved energy. If, like Tamara, the five-year-old Tamara, if you don't have anywhere to put that energy, it's just gonna go back to what it knows. What does it know? Head. So now you're back in the head, but 20 times bigger because the body got to feel that euphoria, but now it didn't know where to go, so it went right back to what's familiar is the head. You see? So the second half is really important, which is what I've been focusing most of my work on, which is why I love one-to-one sessions.

SPEAKER_04 42:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:05

Because you go through the activation and then you integrate. Now we can go back to the narrative. Now we can talk about that. Now.

SPEAKER_04 42:14

So the integration piece is taking how does that work for you?

SPEAKER_00 42:18

What do you what how do you like to so every person is different? There is no, I do not have a system or a method because it just simply doesn't work. How can I compare one person to the other? Yeah, we are so individually beautiful, and I refuse to categorize people and put them into boxes. I refuse to because their gift, their beauty is in that authentic self. That's what we're trying to get back to. Yeah. That's that's it.

SPEAKER_04 42:50

There is no you can't, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:52

You can't. So for every person it's different, and for every person during their lifetime will be different. I've had clients that I've worked with now for 10 years, and every time we meet, I feel like I'm meeting a different version of them. And I refuse to box them in. I don't know them. You if we have this conversation tomorrow, completely two different people. Who are we tomorrow? We don't know. And this is the practice. Who am I today? Who am I today? Who am I today? And not through here, but through here. Look at women. I know that you you said you were going to pre-menopause. I am too. My God, every day I wake up, I'm like, what is this body?

SPEAKER_03 43:28

Yeah, you know, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 43:33

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:34

It's so, but to answer your question about the integration, the integration really to me, I mean, if I had to give it a shape, it would be first letting the body express what it needs to, and then going back and being like, hey, what what happened in there? What did the body say? I could ask that, what did the body say? And then we start to talk that, and then we see if it goes back to the head. I'm Doing this because always like right, that's the cycle. Okay, now what does body say? Okay, what does head say? What is body say? Okay, what is what do the spirits behind say? Oh, let's bring them in, you know.

SPEAKER_04 44:08

Like so, for people that are just listening, I'm gonna describe what you're doing. Uh Tamara's like drawing this big circle, like she's waving her arms around, and she's just drawing this big, like woo circle energy. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:21

Yeah, yeah. Those are all you know, the it's it's the unseen world that we're that we're bringing forward, right? The shadow world, the unconscious world, whatever you want to talk about, however you want to label it.

SPEAKER_04 44:33

Yeah, no, I understand that it's impossible to label, really. So you're creating, from my understanding, you're creating like a dialogue, it's like a conversation. So you've brought out this primal, this energy, this you've activated whatever it is that needs to come out, this expression, and then to give it a home, to give it a place, to make it safe, would you say? Yes, it's like a dialogue. So instead of letting it float around, that energy just ah float around and your mind be like, What the fuck just happened? You talk to it, yeah, you talk to the body.

SPEAKER_00 45:13

That's right. And I um, because all of this I've I've just learned through living it. There, this is all this isn't, you know, through Instagram, this isn't through uh social media, this isn't even through books, this is just through my lived experience. So what I do is that I have exactly uh conversations with myself, and I have them out loud. I talk to myself all the time. So, but I'm actually not talking to myself. I am talking to my inner village. I have an entire village inside of me of, I would say, at least a hundred different personalities. Remember how we talked about the Russian dolls? Yeah, and we all do, by the way. We all do. Um, and I allow all of them to be a part of my community. I simply host them. I'm the host, Tamara is the host, and I try to keep the village, I think, honest, humble, and and working cohesively. And so when I'm talking to myself, my village, I'm asking anger, hey, what's up? Sadness, what you doing today? How'd you wake up? You know, joy, what when's the party? Um, did you invite, you know, did you invite disappointment? Did you invite, you know, regret? Because they really need you right now. So I'm, you know, again, I'm I need visuals in order to see this formula, but that's what I'm doing. But I can only activate my village by allowing them to dance. Like, again, I'm not gonna put my village behind desk and like the school kids and just point to them and teach them. I'm gonna let them all have their voice first, which is what the practice is. Okay, y'all, get up. Let's do your thing. I'm gonna see which villager screams the loudest, which one needs the most care and love, which one needs to be held, which one just wants to be left the fuck alone, you know? And then I'm gonna gather us around our community, usually around my my belly space, my gut space, and be like, all right, who wants who wants to say something? You know, so this is the conversations I'm having. It's not just random, I'm not just talking to myself.

SPEAKER_04 47:24

I I really love it. And last year I started doing a little bit of parts work, which is so basically what you're talking about, and I'd never done it before, but I'm a really visual person as well. So visual meditation, like visualising stuff is really powerful for me. And this particular therapist, um, after my plant medicine journey, actually, which I haven't talked about much on here, I think it's like a whole nother episode. Um, but she she introduced this idea of like there are a million different youths, and they all welcome exactly what you've just said. They're all welcome, they all deserve to be heard, they all have their place. If we were if we push one away, it's only gonna shout even louder. And it's like I loved your analogy and description of a village, because my overall feeling from what you just said is is this just allowing, like nothing is no, no villagers are unwelcome, are they? Like just and this is such a massive part of self-acceptance, from my understanding, self-acceptance, self-love, and allowing, like, okay, you you can be angry.

SPEAKER_00 48:42

It's okay to be angry, like that's a very okay, it's necessary. Necessary. I'm actually building an anger course now. It's very thorough, it's very good. It's gonna, I'm gonna, it's not done yet, but I think in a couple months it'll be up for sale. But this is the thing with emotions like anger, emotions that are that our society has labeled as bad. Not because they're bad emotions, but because they are bad behavior, meaning that one did not learn how to honor the emotion. So the emotion was exiled and is trying to get back in your village, but everybody sees it as a bad guy. So what he's gonna do, he's gonna go over to the corner and he's gonna call over shame and he's gonna sit with shame, and now you have two exiled people, and your village cannot be full and whole, which is healing, if two of your main villagers are outside of the gates being locked out.

SPEAKER_03 49:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:40

We have emotions because they all serve a purpose. Every single emotion serves a purpose. And I really wish that was emotional education, because if people would understand that each emotion has a purpose and place that is essential to your well-being and to your entirety of who you are and how you function, how you navigate through your inner and outer world, then we wouldn't have these problems. But because the bad emotions can't exist, they get repressed, they get tucked away. And what happens to them? They get bigger and bigger, bigger, louder, and louder, louder, and they start to overwhelm the body. And this is when all of those things happen: panic and disease and stress, which is the number one killer. And now we're back in the loop. And so, what has to happen? The body loses control, something has to take over. What takes over? Mind. Mind has to come in because the body has has completely left, it's gone.

SPEAKER_04 50:37

Yeah, that disconnect has happened. Yeah, yeah. So oh, there's so much, there's so much in what you do. So the clients that come to you, what do they normally come to you? What kind of problems do they normally come to you with?

SPEAKER_00 50:55

Yeah, that's a great question. So this has taken me a really long time to understand, too. What is the client that I don't know what the word is that that would benefit most, I think, from coming to me. So what I've learned is the client that is best for me, that would benefit most, not not for me, but for them, is someone who has done a lot of self-work already, that has a vast understanding of what is going on, even on a on a cognitive level, you know, that has done therapy, that has tried many, many things, maybe has done yoga, maybe has done some plan medicine, maybe has just looked at themselves, even because this work is also possible to do by just reflection, right? It doesn't always awareness work. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um, and they've reached a point where they're like, okay, I can't get over this next step. Like, I don't know why I'm stuck here. I'm stuck here. I'm stuck here, you know. Maybe it's something they feel in their body, maybe it's a behavior they see happening over and over again. Maybe it's the mind that keeps looping back to same story, same story when they know already. They they know, but they don't know, you know. So that's usually the client that I think benefits most. But again, I've also had people that have never done anything and they come through and in one session they have a massive opening and awakening, like you were telling me your story, you know, that you just need one moment to awaken something that is dormant, it's not gone, it's just asleep. You wake it up, and all of a sudden you're like, oh, that's why. I don't know, something like something wakes up.

SPEAKER_04 52:39

Yeah, yeah. And that's like a portal, isn't it? I found because there's never just one moment like that in your life. That there could be one initial one, and then it's like a dominant, it's like a portal. It's like once you once that's opened a little bit, and then you go, then there's no going back after something like that.

SPEAKER_00 53:00

No, no, no. But the thing is, like, you're you will I find that you have this portal, you're right, there's an opening. You're like, oh my god, I can see all the way over there in the vast distance, but your body is still here, yeah. Right? You can see it. So these I get these people too. They're like, I know there's something there, but I'm here. Uh-uh. Like, why am I still here? So it's like, you know, again, the visual of the door, like you're just trying to get closer, closer to the door, closer to the door every time. And and sometimes that does regress back. Why? Because the mind is over-trained and the body's undertrained. So, what I also help, which is where the somatic therapy comes in, is to train the body, train the body how to listen to its words through sensations, right? How to um allow, give permission to enter body and relax mind. So I always say, like, tell the mind to go on vacation, you know, when we start. Just tell the mind to go on vacation. We don't need it right now. And so it's again like you've you have to think that because this world is so mind-heavy, it's like um like going to the gym, right? If I do a hundred pull-ups or something, my biceps are gonna be really strong, but my legs are gonna be tiny. So our heads have been worked out to death, and our bodies have been completely ignored. They're they're wafe, they're tiny. Yeah, so I like to because of that reason, I work more with body too.

SPEAKER_04 54:27

Like, let's let's strengthen the body, let's give it more power to like level up, to level up so it's easier. That's it, yeah. Yeah, yeah, that makes total sense. And and then this portal thing, I think uh another certainly from my experience, and I think from people that I've talked to, you're at the portal and you can see it, but the fear that's it's always gonna be fear, always, and it's it's been the same for me personally, like yeah, massive, especially if you have, you know, for most people have experienced some kind of trauma in their childhood, or some kind of like you say you were saying, feelings of being unsafe. Um and so your body and your mind have essentially kept you safe. And this could be this is a mechanism, isn't it? That you know, your nervous system has kept you in some kind of safety pattern, and uh certainly for me, you the portal opens, and you're like, oh, but uh what needs to happen for me, and it would be really interesting to hear your thoughts on this. What needs to happen to then move can keep moving through. For me, it was sometimes just trusting, like just trusting the source, trust, and that's where my yoga practice has been like a my north star, because a huge amount of that has been about faith and trust. And I think without that, I would have just stayed in that place of fear and not been able to move forward.

SPEAKER_00 56:05

Absolutely. There comes a point where it's to trust to me is to believe. That's what trust means. You have to believe, but it's also not like, oh, I believe it's over, right? Like if it was like that, then everything would be really easy. The mind could just tell the body what to do. Hey, let's let go now, let's release it. Yeah, and the body would just do it. It's like the mind is not the one in control, it's the body that's in control. So I could say, let's believe, let's trust. But if the body doesn't feel prepared or safe, it can't. It won't. Um, and so this is why I always say, which is what I got the most out of my athletic career, is like, discipline, people. For the love of God, discipline. And I actually think this is where I get a little frustrated, you see, because this to me is where the block for most people is. It is not all the other million things that they blame it on and the excuses is one word, discipline. If you, or let me go here, a practice, the definition of practice to me means consistency. That's what it means. If you do not show up consistently for yourself to life, to the practice, to whatever it is, nothing is gonna happen. Nothing is gonna change, no matter how much you trust, no matter how much you believe, no matter how much you want. So I always think of it as like consistency in number one, and it comes through these little sips. It's not always gonna be a big opening, right? It's like a little sip of that, a little sip of this. And then slowly you can creep up to the door. It's like, it's like, you know, when the water is really cold, you're not not everybody just gonna jump in and trust. Some people, you know, you to pretend you go back. You're in here and where I live in in Portugal, the water's really cold. And you see people, they run up, they're like, ah, then they look at it, they kind of ponder with it, you know, they're like, hmm, maybe. And they go in a little deeper until they finally go in.

SPEAKER_02 58:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:06

And it's that, but that's the practice that's going back and going back and going back and going back. And what happens through that practice is each time you go back, you learn yourself better and better and better, which then allows you to trust yourself more, which then awakens the belief, which then allows you to transcend. It all works together.

SPEAKER_04 58:29

Oh, I love it. It's just so true. It's a cumulative effect, isn't it? Like you're building, and I guess there's loads of neuroscience behind it, but I'm not a neuroscientist, but you're you're building, you're building this picture, aren't you, of like trust and I can do this, and and this is okay, and do a little bit and you have survived it. And and that was really for me as well. Like, do a little bit and you're okay. Trust yourself, keep trusting, keep working.

SPEAKER_00 58:54

And with you, wasn't there like you had the moment of awakening when you went to Nepal, right? When you had the first yoga session and you were like, yes, but then there was a break, right? And then you went back to yoga. So sometimes the break can be a physical break, but it's not. But notice in that break between the awakening and going back to your practice, you were still practicing. You were with it, you were pondering, you were reflecting, you were thinking, you were digesting, you were marinating in what had happened, right? It wasn't just like, oh well, that didn't work, whatever, bucket list done. You see? No, so right. It's rumbling away in the background.

SPEAKER_04 59:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:33

Yes. So it's always there. The question is, are you listening? Are you listening? And not listening, listening is not being judgmental of it, listening is not trying to fix it, listening is not trying to make away with it, listening isn't trying to change it or transform it. Listening in the most purest form, like, like, ah, and where do you listen? Through the body. Speaks through the body. I'm not just listening to air, right? It's in there, it's all in there, and people can hear it. Because if not, they wouldn't be pulled in one direction or another. We would just be whatever, we'd be robots. But there's always a tug, there's always a pull, you know? There's always a calling. You felt the calling. Always, always, and it will always pull back to the true self, true self being the soul, right? What brought you here in the first place? The unraveling of what is meant to be. I mean, now we're gonna we could go there, but that's a whole other world, you know?

SPEAKER_04 1:00:34

Another episode.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:38

Let's let's go into. I mean, what are your what would you say? And again, I know we don't like to label things too much, and it's really hard. Um, but what would you say is your spiritual or religious belief? How would you describe that?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:54

Your views?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:55

I am here. That's it. I am here, like I'm here. I'm here doing this wild, crazy thing called life. It is crazy, and I'm here for it a hundred percent. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm like, okay, I got the gift to be born. Like, that is crazy in and of itself. And I'm born on this floating round planet that rotates, that has no ground, which is wild. I think we need to like pull out, right? And here I am, like breathing without me even thinking about it. This whole thing happens inside me that keeps me alive, whatever that means, because I've also been almost dead, and that felt more alive than alive, right? So I'm like, so it's all weird, it's all weird. And as a woman, I can even bring other life into this weird thing, so alien. So to me, it's like my spiritual and my religion is I'm here. Then it just becomes a pondering of like just to make it fun, right? What am I gonna do with here?

SPEAKER_04 1:02:05

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:05

What am I gonna share with here? What am I gonna leave here? What am I gonna take from here? What's gonna remain here? You know, it's it's a game, it's literally a video game we're in.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:20

Oh, it's I love a your energy, like you just make me I my face is already hurting from smelling love because it's so fun, it's so fun. Life is fun. This is it, right? Because we've got so serious and we've got so oh out of our true nature, out of our true nature, and I do believe our true nature, it sounds cheesy. I know it's like a cliche, but our true nature is joy, is uh aliveness, is like creativity, creativity, huge one.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:54

I mean, humans are massively creative. Look back in history, look what we've created. I mean, it's wild. If we take that creativity towards something that is um really curious, like my goodness, and then curious within ourselves, you know, it's always it's always got to come back to you. I think we always concern ourselves with others, but it's really all in you, and if you are good in you, then it will naturally spill over. Yeah, instead of pointing the finger and start always looking out, always comparing, always like gossiping. I hate that stuff, you know. Like just bring it back to you. Look within, seek within. It's all there. Everything you seek, you have, everything you seek, you have. It's all there. Start there, go back there.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:46

Yeah, yeah. Instead of looking outside. So many people look outside, don't they? For material stuff, like I need this, I need this for to just try and feel a sense of wholeness, feel a sense of, I can't even put it into words, but but if we all knew, if we all knew, it's all in you, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:04

Yeah, we were, I tell you, just the fact that we are here, that you were born, my goodness, you don't think there's something in you that like needs to be seen, heard, expressed, felt, like that is why you are here. Yeah, it's amazing. You feel it, you're part of that of our collective inner village. We need you, but we need you with your resources, your pure resources. That is what makes us all one. And when we try to like numb or strip away or take away or or fight or compare or say mine is better than yours, you're better than me. This this is toxic, and it strips us from literally our gift, our beauty. I really believe this.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:56

Yeah, and I I think that's the other thing that really drew me to you is that you just seem to have absolutely no ego.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:06

No, it's the that's that's old, that's gone, that's shit to me. It makes no sense. It never made sense to me. I'll be honest, it never made sense.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:14

But you are a rare being, Tamara. And I'm not just trying to, you know, I I toasty. It's one of the things that really drew me to you is that there's just no ego, you're just you, you're just pure, pure you, pure beingness, and and it shines through everything you share, whenever you speak, you're exactly the same here as you show up online. And and that's where it's beautiful, and it it caught my attention straight away. And that's and the wildness and everything, and what's really beautiful about what you do, and I feel quite emotional, is that you give other people permission.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:53

You don't let me tell you something, Helen. I'm getting emotional too because I always get emotional, by the way. There is no conversation I will have. Well, I know not give them. I must I love and I hate people. And this is like the theme of my life and my inner world. I love people when they are who they are. And I see them. I see every single one of them. And I think that's why my sessions are so powerful because you walk in a room with me, I see you, and I don't want you to be anything other than you. I freaking love you. I love your rage. I love your crazy. I love what people don't love about you. I love all of that shit. Bring it to me. Right? And I hate people because they are so dishonoring of who they are. And I just think like that's that's everything. Like, if you're not you, then it's all a fake, it's all a fraud. What's even the point? What's even the point of this life? And it gets this is why I am so insistent of doing what I'm doing and not labeling it. Because I think the moment I label it, the practice, whatever, then I label you. And if we can go back to your first question, what is it you do? I'm I'm like here, and I want to be here with you, not with the personas, not with the roles, not with whatever they told you or they didn't tell you. Because you're per like I really believe that you are perfect, you are perfect, as you are, as you are, as you are. Bring it, yeah, bring it. I'm not afraid of it because I have it in me too. And when you rage, I see the rage in me. And when you love, I see the love in me. You know, and when you smile, I see the smile in me.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:43

This is just like we are human, it we are that. That is it. It is that simple, it is that simple. And I I really like I always cry because I get so frustrated, like, why? So why do you have to make something so simple so hard? Come on, you guys, let's pull up.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:01

Yeah, but this is we're both emotional now.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:06

It always goes here. I'm a Scorpio, so I'll always bring you to the dark side.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:12

But it's you say it's the dark side, but I know I think what you've just described, what you've just described is basically one pure soul seeing, and this is I totally agree with you.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:26

I'm so I love where you're going. Keep going, one pure soul, keep going, keep going, give it to me.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:32

We were always meant to have this conversation, and hopefully many more. Oh, I just love you. I I just one pure soul, one light seeing another. I we are the same, we are absolutely the same, there's no difference, and you channel that in such an incredible way. I just that there's there's it's so so needed.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:56

It's so needed, and and it's so felt, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:58

You can as we're talking, you can feel it in your body. Yeah, exactly, exactly. We're talking words, but it's we're not we're not communicating words. I can feel it through you, you can feel it through me. Yeah, this is what I'm saying. Just you know, like when I lived in New York City, I lived there for 25 years. What I love the most about it is that it's a city where we're very close, right? Because there's very little room and there's a lot of people. So you'll literally go onto the subway and you'll sit like shoulder to shoulder touching with someone else. And I used to always love that because I would sit next to a perfect stranger and I would just like we would just naturally be touching. I would close my eyes and I would just open up, like literally, I don't know how else to say this, but like almost my energy field, and I would try to communicate with them and I would wonder if they could feel me. I could feel them. And we could. And every time they'd be like, you know what, whatever they'd get up and be like, huh, have a nice day. And I'd be like, yes, they felt me. But like we we speak to each other all the time through energy. What gets in the way is the words. Because words, we can dissect them to death, you know, we can find different meanings in them, like we can we can orient around them in different ways. But like feeling is feeling. I feel love, you're gonna feel the love. I feel hate, you're gonna feel my hate. You know, sometimes you walk past someone by the street and you just have that one moment of crossing and you can feel it. You're like, what was that? When you when you like fall in love, remember when I fell in love with my husband, I saw him and I was like, and I it's just a look. It was how explain to me. This is the most powerful language. Why are we not all speaking this? Why are we all not communicating through this? This is my work. I'm reminding you, yo, let's go to the real language. We all speak it, all of us.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:55

Yeah, yeah, oh, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And just a little silly story. I mean, I live on quite a busy road, and the other morning um it was hot. We were talking earlier about how hot it was. I was walking the dogs. I normally take them to the woods, but when it's hot and they needed just a quick walk around the block, I was taking them around the block, and I saw this guy and he had earbuds in and a little little white dog. And I looked up and I said good morning, and he looked at me and I thought, Oh, he hasn't heard me because he's got earbuds in. And he looked at me and I said, Good morning, and and he said, and said something like his energy was just like, get the fuck. I swear, sorry, everyone, it's just natural. No, well, get the fuck away from me, and and I didn't hear what he said because um I actually wear hearing aids and um I didn't have them in because I was on my own, and and I turned around and I actually said, Sorry, I didn't hear what you said. And he said, Keep your dogs away from my dog, and this guy, his whole energetic field, yeah, was black, like a storm cloud, like and I just I in that moment the old me would have really doubted myself, what have I done wrong? You know, and I've done a lot of work, I'm still working on it, that kind of self-worth piece. But I was like, whoa, and part of massive part of me wanted to go, are you okay? Like what because he's clearly not okay, and it right that you're so right, and I I love that story about you sitting on the subway and like wanting to channel in because in London you go, you go on the train, nobody looks at each other. I hate, I hate it. In fact, I've stopped going to the gym for that reason. No one looks at each other, no one's like, and I'm like, we're human beings in the same space, like smile, interact, share. Like we are we might be dead tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:00

Like yeah, yeah. But you know, also I like the story you tell because this is obviously very common. But I find like when I when when that happens to me, which happens often actually, because if you are a human that does live very vulnerably and very open, it is wild how distasteful that is to people. They do not like it, and I think they don't like it because it feels unsafe, because it is rare. So they're like, what is that? You know, almost like you're trying to like manipulate or do something. Um, so what I what I tend to do, and this is a practice that I do all the time, as I walk on the street, I I imagine us again, a little imagery, like we're all bubbles, like we all have those beautiful bubbles around us. And you know, like our bubbles can squash into each other and they can morph together and they can become one big bubble. And I sometimes imagine like that might. So if I was crossing that gun and I felt his energy, I'd just be like, my bubble is smashing into yours, you know what I mean? And I feel like if I just have like a silly little thing like that, like I swear this person can feel it. And there'll always be like a little like lowering of energy or smile that comes, like, yes, and when there is an energy that is very opposing to mine, if I'm walking around in like a loving way and someone else is a little bit darker is a more hateful way, then I'll just I'll just stand there for a while. I won't say anything, I won't look at them, it's just like stand, and I notice that just by having my calm energy, it calms them, it gives them that sense of safety. We can feel it. And actually, I've had sessions with my clients where not even a word has been said. They walk in, we just sit there. I don't know, and it kind of unfolds on its own. Energy is big, it's big.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:56

I mean, look at dogs, they don't they don't talk, you know, they're all energy. Tell me about so you've got two beautiful little doggies. Oh, my boy. Well, I have three.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:09

One is already on the other side, Kapo, right? He's yeah, he's my baby, yeah. He's my original OG, and um, and then I have two presently here with me, which is uh Gansho and Pancito, my little two chihuahuas. They are they're hilarious, dogs are hilarious. I never wanted kids, I wanted dogs.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:31

Oh my god, and you posted the story of Ruby, Ruben, your husband, like making out with your little, oh your they're just everyone, go you have to go to Instagram and they are just gorgeous, and they're beautiful. I was gonna do you know what I was gonna say, because I I know that death is one of your favorite I love death, yes, and I love to talk about it as well, and then there's still so much negative energy around it, but was last was it last year that Capo transcended? How do you like to describe his his passing, his death?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:10

Uh yeah, yeah, transcended. I think he moved on to a better world. Honestly, I think he's joyful, very, very joyful right now.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:19

Yeah. I I remember going on to Instagram and seeing and seeing you cuddling him, and I was I was with you. I was going out, like I was so with you. And the way my dad died last last oh yes, yeah, yeah and a bit ago. And when he died, and and I was lucky enough to be with him for like five hours when he was starting to cross over, so he was halfway between, and it was the most amazing time. Like I talked about, cried, it was and when I wasn't there at the moment, I think he waited until he was alone, like a lot of people do. Yeah, but the experience of his death basically reaffirms everything I had ever hoped or believed, it absolutely made it true, and when you were experiencing capos, passing passing over transcendent. I'm losing my words now. Um I just I loved the way you described it, was how I felt about my dad. Because you weren't angry, you weren't you were feeling your emotions, you were moving through it. It was an acceptance, like death is as much a part of life as birth. It's just natural, it's it's not the end, it's not something we need to be afraid of, it's not really negative, scary. Oh, let's put it in a little box and wear black and so I really would love it if you would. And I know you had this experience with Ruben as well, like my experience. So feel free to talk around.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:18

My goodness. Well, thank you for sharing about your dad. How does it sit? How does it sit now? That was a year ago.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:26

How does it feel now? It was January last year, so it's oh I talk to him all the time.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:32

Yeah, that's the thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:34

That's the thing. When I say it reaffirmed what I believed, I always thought that you know, this this Einstein thing, energy doesn't disappear. It never made sense to me that a person could be here with all their memories, all their energy, all their everything, the energy that we just talk about that can't just disappear. Like again, I'm just tingling so much with our conversation. I know it's a thing, yeah. And and when he died, A, I saw it, and a friend of mine, Lisa, her mum had died only about six months previously, and she talked in such a beautiful way. She said her mum's death was a miracle, like miraculous and beautiful. And I experienced the same thing, it felt like I had to be there. You know how some people can't be there. For me, I wanted to be there every single moment that I could, like, I wanted to just soak it up because it felt like something so important, so special. Like this is this is aliveness, this is this is beyond here, this is now, and I need to witness this and I need to hold all of it, and I let myself feel it, and I cried and I did all the things, I laughed. Um to answer your question, when he died, a huge amount of energy of his energy went into me, and my dad was a beautiful man, but he had loads of unsolved stuff. Different generation, like they didn't, they didn't know the language or know, I mean, we just live in an entirely different world now. But his mom, my grandmother was uh had lots of mental health issues, and she was alcoholic, and my granddad was not a nice man, and my my dad was basically just like really neglected, like and a lot of his sadness um from you know my parents' divorce, and my parents lost a baby, died of cot death, you know, at like four months old, went woo into me. Yeah, this is like a whole nother conversation of like a healing path. But but I was even the days after my dad died, I was his mannerisms were like really coming strongly through, and I loved it because my the aware my awareness of the village that you talk about was going, whoa, hey, hi there. He lives in me, he lives in me, and and still he's like I can talk to him, I can ask anytime.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:18

Yeah, we're we're more than these bodies, we really are. Gosh, when we go to thanks for sharing that, that was beautiful. When we yeah, death is something that I hold like a treasure, it's always been with me, even as a little kid. I've been fascinated with death. Not because it's a mystery. I mean, the truth is none of us really knows what happens, right? Because there's yet to be anyone that comes back from it. Um, I've had two near death experiences, and both have been probably like the best moments of my life.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:50

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:52

Yeah. Um, where I have felt the amount of peace and love is so gino. Look, it like just think it's so overwhelmingly huge. You're like, holy shit, this is what I'm made of. Like, literally, it's what we're made of. So you get to, at least for me, when I when I kind of did that little passing, where whatever that means, it was, I'll never forget it. And then most recently, when my husband had this crazy, just random death, like literally, he was dying. They told me that he was gonna die. He was at a jujitsu competition, totally fine, 33 years old, super healthy, super buffed, super athletic, like no problems. All of a sudden went down. They still don't know why, they couldn't figure it out. Um, but something was eating him alive, essentially. And so he went.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:47

This was it last year or before.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:49

No, I think it's been like two, a little bit over two years now.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:53

So it feels very recent in my memory.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:56

Well, it feels that that kind of thing, yeah, it takes a while, I think, to like digest. So from one moment he was fantastic, and the next day he was dying. So whatever this is ate his um liver and then started eating his kidneys.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:13

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:14

Um, and they actually told me when I went to other, you know, he'll be dead tomorrow. And the next day when I went, somehow they had gotten him a liver transplant. Um, and it was at a moment when this disease randomly, not so randomly, stopped for a moment so that they could put the liver in, because it was a kind of thing where we can't put it in if the disease is just gonna eat the new organ. And it took and he's alive, and here we are again, wild. But the the coolest thing, because I think this is all actually very cool, is that I again got to experience through the many deaths, my own near deaths, the deaths of Capo, who was my he's my god, literally, and this kind of death journey of my husband is the acceptance of death and what it does to me. And it's this really interesting thing you kind of tapped onto it is that in this way, because of course there's many different ways that one can die, and depending on who you are and your story and how it happens, it can be very traumatic. But for me, these death always brings this um cathartic, euphoric experience. And I can't quite explain it, and I'm still trying to understand what it is, but it's almost like you served, you served your your time. Oh my god, so beautiful. Now you get to something, you get to move on to what's you, the real you without the form, like the true expression, the all of you. I think that a big part of us being in bodies is trying to get to that source in a body, which is the most difficult. So, so hard because the body is is finite, it's not infinite. So when the body dissolves, I feel like now you can be infinite. And so this feeling of like when my husband was dying and I thought the next day would be dead, I all I could think was like, oh my god, Reuben, now you get to be infinite.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:12

You like you get to be all of you, and you're so big, you're so beautiful, you're so oh my god. I think that we can only access such a small amount of who we are in a body. So for me, death always reminds me of like, oh my god, I'm that, I'm that big. And that, like it's so, it's so immense that it overwhelms me with as you can see. So I think again, if we're going back to the work, this is what I'm always trying to remind people of. Like, remember, you are that big.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:48

What are you doing? Worrying about this stupid little gossip that your friend said, you are that big, and I think that's why people have these, like, if they cannot awaken in a lifetime, I really believe that right before that last breath is taken, they will awaken because that's it, they're free, you know, but I also very much honor the journey of life because I think it is where we get to practice, it is where all the pain is and the suffering and the joy and the love.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:28

But I I really honor pain and suffering. I think it's um actually I find it quite beautiful to be honest. I think this is the artist side of me. I think that it deepens our experience and it it gives us a contrast that that obviously leads to gratitude. Yeah, you know, yeah, death is is massive and kapel. I mean, the way this boy died, it was so beautiful because he lived it that way. I think that was the thing that I learned about Kapo, my dog. He lived in the essence of who he was a hundred percent, not like humans. You see, humans can't do that. We can't, we can't separate, but a dog can separate, a dog can be exactly who he is without apology, and then when they die, they're still that but free. So that that was that's Gapo's death for me. I mean, it was like he's still, he's still him more than ever. I can feel him on my chest all the time. Right, you're where he laid his head. Yeah, it's beautiful. I don't miss him. I don't miss him because he's still like literally a hundred percent with me. And it was the same with Ruben when he died, like because it wouldn't, he was, you know, on machines. He was dead.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:50

And I just I didn't miss him. I I felt him closer and closer and closer. It was wild. And I think that's where the euphoria came.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:57

I was like, oh my God, now you're not next to me. You're in me. This is so cool. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 1:28:05

Oh, I'm kind of lost for words because all I want to do is hug you.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:12

Virtual hug. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:14

Yeah. Because I I was following your obviously from a distance, following your journey and seeing what you were going through, and like, oh my god, what it must be like. But you had this unrelenting, you were joyful. And I remember you like videoing yourself going to the hospital. And it's like, I know this seems crazy, but I'm I'm like really excited right now. And totally this because you're so tapped into let's just call it source energy, the reality of who we are meant to be, like oh, you're so tapped into from my perspective, you're so tapped into that.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:56

That's the truth. And you know what you know what being tapped into that source energy um means. It means that fear can't get in. And so if fear can't get in, you're safe. And so if you're safe, you can express and be who you are. And if you express and be who you are, then you're free. See, they all work together.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:20

It's it's just amazing. And I yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:25

Yeah, yeah. I'm kind of yeah, it all works together. So this is why like the work needs to be done as like a full, full embodied. And when I say embodied, I don't just mean body, all body. The ones we can see when we can't, because it is a whole experience. You're not just gonna heal one thing and get on with it, you know. And it is an experience that is constantly shifting and changing, therefore, it's a practice, therefore, it has to be consistent. And it's again, we go back to the beginning of these like very simple things that are really are very hard for people, and um, and I think it's just because they complicate.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:07

So, what so for everybody listening who's like, this sounds amazing. What can I do like daily? What are what are little small things that people could do to start tapping in to start expressing any suggestions?

SPEAKER_00 1:30:23

Listen, there's two things one is out and one is in. In is stop pointing the finger. They, him, they did, they said, just always reflect back. I where does it come from in you? You know, how does it start in you? How does it speak in you? How does it move in you? You, you, you are the source, you are the center of you. Look in, and then in the reverse, express out, emote, right? Just release the emotion. If you need to cry, cry completely fully. If you need to laugh, laugh fully. If you need to love, love fully, right? And again, do it in a place of non-judgment. So anytime that the so if I'm gonna express out, I'm not gonna say you said it, and you're gonna get angry. No, no, no. It's the it's just that. So it doesn't have a word, it doesn't say you said that, it's just uh I know it sounds so easy. So to make that again, to make it clear, don't point out, point in, not as blame, not as shame, but just simply curious exploration and reflection, very different energy, and then express out, emote, let the energy within you move in a raw, primitive way without a story, beyond a narrative, and without judgment. Simple. Those are the two things. And by the way, if you want to practice it with me, here's the pitch. You can come to my retreat.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:56

This is the next thing. So uh Tamara's got this. I ri I really want to come. I am I'm like, oh my god, you would be magical there.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:05

So you've got this amazing retreat in Mexico. Um, is it in November?

SPEAKER_00 1:32:10

So November 4th through the 10th, and it's in Yalapa, Mexico, which is um right off of Puerto Vallarta. It's a little island, and what's super special about it is that it's sacred indigenous land, meaning that it can't be built on. So there's no roads, there's no billboards, there's no noise. Yes, it's a jungle within an ocean. I don't think it's an island, but it has an island feel. And a friend of mine has invited me to go do this retreat on her boyfriend's land. He he is of the family, and so they have that land. Um, yeah, it's gonna be spectacular. My husband will also be guiding it, so he'll be doing Ruben, the more embodied kind of like um, I don't want to say it's superficial body, but yeah, we'll like bring the body, right? You have to be in body to go past body. So he does that work, and then I come in and we do the emotional work. And it's just really nice to be able to connect yourself with a group of people that's also there to do the same thing without judgment. It's the without judgment that's really big, and also without um having to learn a method. You know, you're not going to learn a method, you're going to learn yourself. That's it. So remember who you are, tap back in, and it's gonna be beautiful. So you can go to um my website, beyondnarrative.com. You can find me on Kuchira on Instagram. You just click the link, it's all there.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:43

I'm gonna put everything in the show notes. So all of your info, all of your emails. So if people want to work with you, I'm gonna put everything in the show notes. You can also find um Kuchira on Instagram, but other ways that people could work for you, say they can't afford a retreat right now. What are your other offerings? I've done some of your online classes, which have been amazing.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:05

The online classes are truly phenomenal and they're super affordable. And I wish more and people would get on it because what's cool about them is they're on Patreon, so patreon.com slash movement classes, but a lot of them are just audio classes, so you just literally press play already, the music is there, the guidance is there, the guidance is very image, imagery-based, and also embodied-based, so a lot of embodied cues, but you're not staring into a screen because I don't like that about you know, online classes. You're literally just having sound and it's very free and it's more of a guidance than like do this or do that. So it allows you to do it in the energy of your own space and let you connect with your body and start having that conversation, you know, especially if you don't know where to start, if you don't know how to do what I'm talking about, or if you feel blocked, or if you do it a lot on your own, maybe, but you just like a different take on it, or maybe you want someone else to guide you because you're always guiding someone else. You know, I always have like a lot of teachers that come and do it because they're like, oh my God, someone help me. Like, I want to get out of my mind. And then another way is um the one-to-one privates, which I do online or in person. So if you have something that is more specific to you, more personal that you want to work on and dig into, I would recommend that. And they're phenomenal because we can really lay in. And then finally, is the the anger course that I'm working on. It's called the anger ally course. So cool. Tell us more about that. I have not really liked how anger has been depicted. I think it's depicted often as a bad guy or um a villager that has to somehow rage it out or activate it out, or like, ah, or scream it out. And sure, all those things are fine, but that is not what anger is at all. And I think that very much simplifies um the intelligence of anger. And so I think because anger is so incredibly misunderstood, I was like, let me make a course about this. Because I think a lot of people actually struggle with anger. And I'm not just talking big anger, I'm talking even that little anger, that irritation, that frustration, that annoyance that people walk around with, you know, that's anger too.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:20

Um, so this course is, I think it's like an eight for right now. I'm not done yet, but I think it's like an eight or nine module course. And it starts with just like the understanding emotions in a general sense first, and then pulling more into anger, anger, what it means as a villager, but then anger as like um just a human trait, just a not a thing that needs to be fixed or a threat, but just a natural institution of our biology. Um, and so if you struggle with anger on any level, this would be fantastic.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:54

Do you know? I would love to have you back and just do a whole episode if you'd if you'd be happy to on that, because I think you know that's a thing, right? And for me as well, like yeah, I'm I'm I'm not gonna go go into it now because we'll be like another two hours on here, but even the day yesterday, I had a really difficult conversation with a family member, and I was so angry, oh my god. Yeah, and it didn't go well, and I tried to could do all of my stuff, and you know, I'm I am not I never always say on here that I am always learning. I'm not I'm very far from perfect, I'm deeply flawed person. All of us, girl, all of us, always learning all the time. Oh I tried to approach it in this way, and I still got so angry. So I would love to explore that with you if you would be happy to come back and oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:49

Maybe when the course is done, we can get back on and talk about it. Yeah, because it's a fascinating emotion, it's so intelligent, so complex, and again, so misunderstood. Incredibly misunderstood. And also anger of how it works through women versus men, you know, like it's a whole thing, this anger thing. Yeah, so we can you can definitely do that. That would be awesome. Yeah, I'm into it.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:13

Great, that would be amazing. Let's do that. And I'm reaching for you see, I'm reaching for my notes because I normally ask, where have I put it? Ah, I normally ask all of my guests a bunch of fun questions at the end. And it's like they are yoga related, but I'll try and mix them up so it's not no no, let's play, let's play your game. You sure? Okay, yeah. So the idea is to uh not think about it, just say the first thing that comes into your mind. Okay, that's easy for me. Um okay, so the first question I I'm gonna I'm gonna change it slightly. The first question What is oneness?

SPEAKER_02 1:39:03

That is that oneness is oneness, yeah. No, it's that the silence. Love that. Love that. Okay, question number two.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:18

Consciousness is Oh girl, you're going deep and you want it, you want it simple?

SPEAKER_04 1:39:27

Just say whatever.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:29

Consciousness is being.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:30

It's being being. Number three, uh my favorite practice, my favorite personal practice is having conversations with myself.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:48

All sorts, really fun ones, really stupid ones, really feisty ones. I love having conversations with myself. I love, I love being alone. If I could be alone for the rest of my life, I would, and I actually can, but this is a big, a big fight with myself. But that's deep, so we won't go there. But yeah. Did I answer it?

SPEAKER_04 1:40:14

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's perfect. Um leggings or baggy pants.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:22

Oh, baggy pants for sure. No, girl, we don't need no yeast infections. No, no, no, no, no, no. Baggy all the way.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:30

Everyone that has come on and said baggy pants.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:33

Yeah, because that's wrong. It's just wrong to have things tight on you. No.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:40

Um, I've actually got some bamboo ones that the only legs are because they breathe, right? Yeah, and they're it fit so soft, they're really good. Um okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:52

Must read book that's changed your life.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:56

I don't read books. Yeah. I actually take in very little information outside of myself because I find that there's so much inside of myself. I've never gotten bored with myself and my thoughts and my feelings. I'm so in love with all the things that happen inside of me. I don't need to outsource. I don't feel like I need to outsource.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:19

No, why would you?

SPEAKER_00 1:41:21

It's fun in here, it's real fun.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:26

I want to get in there too. Like it's real fun, girl.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:34

Um okay, so if you oh see, see all of these questions like you're gonna have the same answer. So this question is about a desert island. Okay. So I'm gonna change it. So if you're on a desert island, what uh let's just say what one item would you bring? Could be anything, it could be a living thing, it could be an item.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:00

Ah, I would bring a dog a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:05

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um ashram or yoga retreat.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:16

Neither. Not that I have a problem with either, but for me, neither. For me, I would go alone into a forest, which I've done before, and just stay there. And I've done that before with nothing and just just be for an extended period of time? Mm-hmm. Yeah, for sure. For sure. I've done it. It's I could stay there forever.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:48

Um devotion for me looks like honoring honoring my truth. And the last one, life is life is fucking beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:09

Life is a gift.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:13

Yeah, life is a gift, and so is death. I think that's the end.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:25

That that is the end. There's nothing more to say. Uh thank you, my god, so much.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:29

Like, Helen, you are you are lovely, you are lovely, and I want to say you're an exceptional listener, and that's rare. So thank you.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:42

My pleasure. I I just I can't wait to talk to you again.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:46

I love that we're like two crying women at the end of this, but it goes to show that we're both very open and available.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:54

That's why we cry, and I think that's the most beautiful thing. So, thank you. It's so nice to speak to someone open and available. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:02

Right back at you. Thank you. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:06

Thank you, sister.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:10

Thank you so much for listening to the Be Still and Notice podcast. I really hope you enjoyed this episode and perhaps it even added something to your life. If you know someone that might benefit, please share this episode with them, and of course, a review would be so much appreciated. Please find all the information relating to this episode, including relevant links, in the show notes. And until next time, sending you so much love and light on your path to yoga.