TINAH Talks | Mental Health and Wellbeing Podcast

35. How To Stay High Vibe & Stress Free This Holiday Season

• TINAH • Season 1 • Episode 35

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This week on The TINAH Talks podcast we are discussing the complexities of holiday pressures and the impact events such as Thanksgiving and Christmas can have on somebodies mental health. 

We delve in to different styles of family dynamics, the influence of social media has had on gift expectations, and the challenges of maintaining work-life balance during the holiday season. 

Holiday pressures and expectations can be exhausting and whilst for some it’s a happy and joyful occassion, for others feelings of inadequacy, stress and depression can also present during this time.

We discuss the importance of self-care and setting boundaries during this time and how to navigate and reduce thanksgiving or Christmas stress.

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Kelsey (00:01)
Hey guys, welcome back to another Tinah Talks episode. We're your hosts, I'm Kelsey and this is Sophie. Today we're talking all about the holidays and the pressures that come with the holidays and how it can often really affect our mental health and how those pressures can compound. So how are you doing today, Sophie?

Sophie (00:21)
doing okay? I have got a lot going on right now. We're in October, but we're talking about something that's happening in like a month or two's time. So it feels quite nice to talk about the holidays, I guess, because we're kind of leading up to them. So yeah, let's dive in. How are you doing?

Kelsey (00:40)
Yeah, no, I'm doing all right, you know, just busy, busy working and I've got some travels that are coming up. And so I feel like life I'm to be moving around a little bit. And I'm actually going be doing Thanksgiving in Arizona with my aunt and uncle. It'll be the first time I'm doing that. So as you guys know, in the US we do Thanksgiving and they they're from Chicago, but they've got a place out there that I think during the winter they go to and their new holiday.

kind of pattern is that they go out there and they do Thanksgiving and one of their kids, he's married and he's got some babies and so they're not gonna be joining. So there's space and they invited Sean and I, which is really nice. So I'm excited to have like a warm Thanksgiving.

Sophie (01:23)
Yeah, because Arizona's hot all year, right? That's from what I understand.

Kelsey (01:25)
it's

Yes, yeah. like in the summer it can be, so it's all dry heat. So in the summer it can be a little bit unbearable because it's like 40 degrees Celsius plus. And then during like winter time, that's when it's like really nice. It does get a little bit cooler. Probably I would have to do the conversion, but I think like 20th, no, no, 30th, 25, 30 degrees Celsius I think is like.

kind where it can get and can fluctuate. It's the desert, so it gets really hot during the day, it's really sunny, and then at night it gets quite cool. So yeah, it's definitely different than here in Chicago, because we're already getting cool weather, as you can tell with my flannel and stuff.

Sophie (02:08)
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I'm in London right now and I haven't had winter for four years. I actually haven't had the holidays for like four years so we can talk about that. But yeah, I'm feeling you with the cold. It will be very nice of you to go away and have some like a warm Thanksgiving.

Kelsey (02:24)
Yeah. Well, okay. Well, so talking about holidays, let's talk about all things that come with it. The mental load that comes with holiday expectations. I don't know about you, but like I come from a family that has a lot of issues, so to speak. And so granted this year it will be a little bit different because my mom, she's passed. She passed last year and my dad passed in 2015. So like really my family is dispersed and like

the experiences that I would have had when they are around are very, different, especially compared to like childhood. My expanded family, cousins, aunts and uncles, we don't do the big holiday get togethers anymore because all of the cousins are grown up. man, was there a lot of stress that came around the holidays for me? I mean, as much as I loved the holidays, it was always filled with some hidden family.

drama of some sort. don't know how, how was, how are the holidays perceived for you and in the past and even now?

Sophie (03:29)
Yeah, I come from a very small family. So the holidays for me, obviously in the UK, we don't celebrate Thanksgiving, obviously, we only have Christmas, like the biggest holiday is Christmas. And maybe Easter, we're not talking necessarily about Easter, but like potentially if you're religious, maybe you celebrate Easter. I don't come from a particularly religious family and my family is tiny.

So traditionally when we were growing up, it was me, my mum, my dad, my sister, my nan, my granddad and my granddad. Now over the years, obviously naturally grandparents passed away and we're now at the point where like none of my grandparents are alive. I never knew my dad's mum because she passed away before I was even born. So she was never part of that picture. for me holidays, like as a kid, obviously was so super fun. Like I loved Christmas.

I really enjoyed open presents and the whole Santa thing. I love that. But as I've got older, Christmas for me has just become quite boring. And that's not because I don't want to spend time with my family, but it just feels like there's not a lot to do. Where my family live, there's not the place to go on a Christmas day walk, for example. There's not a pub to go and have the Christmas day drinks, for example.

I didn't have any like challenging situations at Christmas. I just find it not that exciting. So like, it's never been a situation that I have like gone into and struggled with or had any like resistance from that side, which I feel very grateful for because I know that I'm fortunate for that. But it's never been an occasion that I've particularly looked forward to in my adult life, to be perfectly honest with you. But in the US, what's the...

The comparison between Thanksgiving and Christmas, like which one's a bigger holiday for you guys?

Kelsey (05:27)
It depends on the family. depends like who I think it really comes down to like the type of food. So like, for example, Sean, like loves Thanksgiving and then his brother loves Christmas. Both can be really big. And I come from like a very different side. So both I'm

Sophie (05:29)
Okay.

Kelsey (05:46)
only like technically an only child, but on both mom and dad side, they had a lot of siblings. So I had a lot of cousins. think like I count I like have 20 something cousins on each side. So like, yeah, so when it would be a family holiday, would be like five or six aunts and uncles with their partners, then grandma and grandpa, and then like the my cousins, the nieces and nephews and all of that. And so that would be like one big family party.

But yeah, so between Thanksgiving and Christmas, mean, they're all like, there's Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter. I feel like there's like one that I'm really missing, but I'm forgetting about. Maybe 4th of July. I mean, we do 4th of July, yeah. But yeah, so I mean.

Sophie (06:26)
4th of July maybe? Is that a holiday?

Kelsey (06:35)
It's it just it I think it's from family to family based on how big your family is and like what you guys do like one of my best friends from high school I think every life for Christmas They just did Christmas with their core unit and she had like a decent sized family smaller than what mine was But like they did with just their core unit and they would go to the movies every Christmas day Like it was you know people had their own traditions Which for me as an adult right like I'm excited to create

new traditions. I'm excited to create my own traditions with Sean and the dogs and all that because my, as I said, my family has really dispersed. But when it's come to like internal pressures around the holidays, I think it's really common for people to feel like, crap, the holidays are coming up. Like what's my family going to think of me? And like, what do I have to navigate with my family? Things like, you know,

There's this extra pressure that you have to appear successful, you've got your shit together. I know a lot of people who have body image concerns, like, wow, what's gonna happen? Because the holidays are surrounded by food and alcohol. That's pretty much what it is. And on top of that comes financial stress, like getting presents for people or being able to just commute to a location to make it to be with the family. It comes with all these kind of...

just additional pressures and to feel like you have to have this perfect holiday experience, especially with how it's portrayed in like the media and everything like Christmas and Thanksgiving and all this. And so, I don't know, is it similar over in the UK? Like, is that similar internal pressures that you've seen other people experience?

Sophie (08:15)
Yeah, I think so. again, I don't know what it's like in the US, but like with gift buying, for example, like people go crazy in the UK, like for gift buying and that you'll see on Instagram, for example, all of these like very extravagant presents that are very expensive. And particularly right now where the whole world, let's be honest, is going through a cost of living crisis. Like the whole world is in some way struggling financially.

in different different places are obviously affected in different ways, but I can definitely say like obviously I don't live in the UK anymore right, but I've just come back here for past couple of months. I would genuinely say it's about 75 to 80 percent more expensive than when I left three years ago. It is so expensive. Yeah, like really expensive and things that you used to be able to maybe buy is like a cheap gift. Yeah, I guess I think it's everywhere but like

Kelsey (09:00)
Really?

It's the same in the US.

Sophie (09:10)
For example, if let's just say like little stocking fillers that you used to be able to maybe stock filler stocking for like 15, 20 pounds, let's say like you'd go to like the cheaper shops on the high street. Most of the cheap shops don't exist anymore. Like they've kind of been pushed away. And the things that like, for example, you maybe used to get like a bar of chocolate or something in there. Bar of chocolate used to be about a pound. It's now almost two pounds. It's like almost a hundred percent increase. And I'm not saying that that's like.

a crazy amount of money like somebody wouldn't be able to necessarily afford that jump because it's five chocolate, like you're probably going to use it, whatever. But it's the, it's, if you think about every single thing that's then increased, that's just a little example. Everything that's increased, your stocking is going from like 15 to 20 pounds. It's now like 40 to 50 plus, then you've got all of these extra gifts that you get people. It's not just about the stocking and like people go crazy. And I think for me, I've always felt that more so pressure than I have. Like I said, I've got a small family.

The people that I'm with on Christmas Day, they're my family that I grew up with. It's not like I'm adding in all these aunts, uncles that don't really know me that well, but see me once a year. I'm literally seeing my core family on Christmas. So for me, there was never any pressures around what I've been up to, how successful I am, if I've changed image, because my family have seen me regularly enough to know the situation there. But one thing I always have felt a lot of pressure around is gifts and presents.

present buying because I feel like on social media people see this like glamorized gift buying extravaganza at these holiday periods. And I remember as a kid feeling like I wanted that, you know, like I really wanted that. I saw it in the movies. I saw it with my friends who getting all these presents. And if I didn't get that, I'd maybe be a bit disappointed. Whereas as I get older, I'm like, what a waste of money. What a waste of money. And I think there's still that pressure to like,

Kelsey (10:51)
Yeah.

Sophie (11:05)
People, I normally avoid social media over Christmas because I find it not, I wouldn't say I find it hard to watch. I just find it like really annoying because I'm like, this one person's like opening like a Rolex watch or like, they've got X, Y, Z like designer handbags. I'm like, great, that's good for you. But like, you need to flaunt it to everybody who's then going to like feel a bit shit about themselves if they haven't got a present that's like.

Kelsey (11:17)
Yeah.

Sophie (11:33)
that extravagant and I feel like that for me is where the pressure comes in. I know it's not just me, I know this is like a thing for people but I think there's so much, there's so many different elements of it isn't there that we put pressure on ourselves and also other people put pressure on.

Kelsey (11:39)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, and I think it's just so much easier now with social media, right? Like you see a window into everybody's lives and Instagram is everything good. It's not the bad. all you're seeing is like the positive, the good, the extra is all on Instagram. And it can be really hard not to fall into that comparison trap. I mean, even as a kid, like we struggled with money. And I know my dad,

Sophie (12:06)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Kelsey (12:15)
for certain Christmases really like went out of his way to try to like get us things and do stuff. But like, I remember there'd be times that like people would get really cool stuff and I wouldn't have like, weren't getting amber combre and Fitch and Hollister and all these like fashion based clothes. Like that wasn't part of what we got for Christmas. And I think that I would have felt that.

comparisons so much more had social media been a thing back then. And I'm really glad that it wasn't because I was I was living in a like moderate to like middle to upper class area, but we were poor, like our water was being shut off, our heat was constantly being shut off, like we were eating ramen, like all these things. And we even though we had the house on the outside on the inside, we were poor. And so like, I'm really glad that I didn't have to see

all the stuff that was happening with my friends. I think, right, there's just these, that's like the external pressures of social media and also like, you know, social obligations of like how you show up and like you're wearing your cute, like, you know, holiday outfits or, you know, making sure, you know, like you said, there's that financial expectations with like hosting or traveling or gift giving.

One of the big ones that I still now is like an external pressure that sometimes like creeps up on me is like, I have to cram and get all of my work done to like take this holiday. And I feel like there's this deadline that's like really pushed and pressured versus like, I feel like in Europe, maybe not London, but in like Spain and all that, they're like, okay, we're going to take off the whole month of December. We're unavailable until mid January.

Sophie (14:02)
It's lame.

Kelsey (14:03)
And I'm all for that, I love that.

Sophie (14:06)
Yeah, I feel like I've got a bit of a warped perspective of that because I worked in retail when I was 16 to only a few years ago. So for me, taking a Christmas holiday was never really a thing because when I worked in a shop, obviously Christmas is like your busiest time, you're back at work on Boxing Day, you have one day off, like you're working till like 9, 11 p.m. at night on Christmas Eve and then on Boxing Day, which I don't think, you don't have Boxing Day in the U.S. I don't think, but the day after Christmas.

Kelsey (14:22)
Yeah.

We have like a version. Yeah, yeah, we do. We have Boxing Day. Yeah.

Sophie (14:38)
okay. Yeah, so like Boxing Day, like you're back at work, it's Boxing Day sales, you're at work at 6am. Like I never really took time off at Christmas and then all throughout my career in the fashion industry. Again, like it's not a thing. Like you work like that bit between Christmas and New Year, you work up until Christmas Eve. So I don't really have that experience either of like taking time off. So even now, I don't really care to take time off at Christmas. Actually, I find it a really nice time to work for me personally in my business because everybody else is off.

Kelsey (15:02)
Mm-hmm.

Sophie (15:07)
So it gives me time to like be able to do the stuff that I need to do without having those external interruptions. But I know exactly what you're saying like about there is that pressure, especially as you now run your own business to really be able to just sit back and relax because ultimately you're a one man band. Like you're doing everything. So it can feel so much more intimidating. think taking the time off as a founder than it can be if you were working in a nine to five job, for example.

Kelsey (15:08)
Yeah.

Yeah, no. so I guess when I think back on when I worked in a hospital, we worked the holidays. you there's like, I don't know, there was like six or eight holidays in a year. And every year you rotated, were four that you worked for you were off and then and then it switched the next year. So the other ones that you were off, you've worked that year. So it was always like Christmas Eve versus Christmas Day. I was always working one of them when I worked in the hospital. And when I worked

retail for a short period of time, just for a year when I was in high school, I hated it. Also, like we would work until four in the morning, like doing the whole store setup, like the whole thing. So I do remember that. think like now with having my own business, it's more so like, I'm happy. Like I know I need to keep chugging along, but I feel like now there's this extra pressure of like, now I have a higher social demand that's happening on top of like, I still need to keep up with my work.

unlike the majority of people who get the time off. So it's like, yeah, I can like totally do that work. But now it's like, I've got party after party, I've got this, I've got family occasions, I've got to be places, I got to do things. And then I feel like my personal decompression time disappears. Because like, I can't stop what I'm doing in my business necessarily, unless, you know, I have moments where my systems are all set up and it's good to go. But right now we're in like a hardcore growth phase. I'm changing a lot of things in my business. So like, that's not going to be the case this year.

But then it's like, I've got all these social capacity, like this, my social kind of calendar fills up and it's like, well crap, now I gotta go do all this. And it takes away from being able to focus on myself and manage my personal needs. So.

Sophie (17:10)
No, I agree with that. think when I lived in London, I definitely felt that pressure around. Yeah, exactly. Like going out, doing all the things like doing all the socializing because it naturally does come with social elements, especially Christmas, like the lead up to Christmas. If especially if you work in a corporate job, you have about five Christmas parties. So you go for drinks, that's work, especially in London is such a like big event. And then in London, you've also got

like Winter Wonderland, all the lights, like all of the really lovely Christmas activities that people like to do. But my God, when you go into central London on one of those days, it's like torture because it's so busy. And I actually remember when I, when I worked in, worked for Kate's Bade and our office was on Regent Street in London. to get Regent Street, in case you don't know, is like one of the busiest shopping streets in London. It's got all of the, at Christmas, it has these big massive lights. So people come specifically to Regent Street to see the Christmas lights.

and our offices on Regent Street. The closest tube station to Regent Street is Oxford Circus. The tube station used to shut for an hour every day because it was so overcrowded. So I could never get home from work. It was like, it was chaos. You'd have to walk 15, 20 minutes to go to another station just to get home. So yeah, like I feel like, I can't remember even what we were talking about before I started going off on that, but.

Kelsey (18:19)
god.

of like, you know, all these parties that you have to go to, which by the way, I've been to some London Christmas parties and they're fun.

Sophie (18:34)
Yes.

Yeah, exactly. I'm sorry. Yeah, this is social pressure. So I've now and I do this in my life anyway. I think this comes from like traveling for such a long time. I hate making forward plans. Like if I want to see you, I want to see you like on a last minute. I don't know how I'm going to feel this time, two months away. Like I don't know if I'm going to want to show up. So I feel like, it's great. Like you have all of these plans that you want to go and do and blah, blah. Like people need to organize. I completely understand that. like

For me personally, I've decided for my own mental wellbeing to not make plans and not have those pressures on me to show up. I will be like, okay, like thank you for inviting me. I will see how I feel closer to the time, unless it's something like a wedding or whatever that I have to respond to obviously. But like if you're just asking me if I wanna go on a dinner or a night out in December and it's October, I'm sorry, but I'm not making that plan with you right now.

I've got no idea what my financial situation is going to be. I've got no idea what my work situation is going to be. I've got no idea what my mental situation is going to be. So I'm not making that plan. And I've made a conscious decision to do that. And I think that annoys some people because they want to make plans. But I don't really care anymore.

Kelsey (19:44)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I'm a planner, but like not that far in advance, like October to December, more so like, hey, what are you doing?

Sophie (19:57)
you have to do that here. Like in London if you don't do that it's like no reservations until like whatever. So I do understand it from like that side of things but like I just I just I don't want to live like that anymore. Like that I lived like that for like 28 years of my life. Like the past few years I've like consciously decided not to not to have to make these plans and like show up for things.

Kelsey (20:02)
Wow.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, like, okay, so we're talking about like everything leading up to the holidays, right? And I think some really common things and how this just like to tie this back to mental health, like some people, can really start to see like their sleep patterns changing. Like for me, a big one is like the holiday time is like my exercise routine gets disrupted. And then I have more anxiety leading up to like the events that I'm going to.

And then kind of like what I said, like my energy is depleted. Like I just, don't have any of that decompression time that I need. I know other sort of kind of disruptions that people see is like that increased overthinking, the mood swings, difficulty concentrating on work if they still have it, depleted kind of emotional boundaries. think that's a really big one because I know you, you said you come from like a small family, like your small family events. And so you're not necessarily being challenged at these new.

not the new, at the holidays every year, but I feel like it's really common, at least here with my family and then what I've seen with other people is like, family dynamics are tough, right? I feel that if you're not able to join for the holidays, that's gonna give you some pushback. People with their political opinions when you show up and it's like, yo, I'm just here to eat some pie and like catch up with the family. I'm not trying to hear who you're voting for.

Oftentimes there's a lot of unsolicited advice in comments. know there's always like, right, and the comments I think, and this is where I've seen this in the last couple years, where it's like instead of complimenting someone's appearance, you look really good, which like at the end of the day is not, it's just a nice compliment. It's not to be, know, it's like, you look really good, but there's that.

internal kind of struggle with like, I have to be fit. have to be, I have to look healthy. I have to look like I'm in shape or my family is going to comment about my weight and then be like, why are what's going on with you or comment about like why are you eating some cake and like things like that, which I guess is more common than I think people realize like family commenting unnecessarily on your behaviors and your habits and your looks. what else I'm trying to think like just general boundaries like family.

I know, so this is the thing that I learned in therapy is that you can do the work on yourself. You can be putting in the work with your routines, with your habits, around mental, emotional, physical behaviors, and then processing things in therapy. you can, the whole point is that you need to learn to set better boundaries of what you will accept and won't accept in different interactions or how you and behave yourself, right?

just because you're setting the boundaries does not mean your family's gonna go along with it. They know a version of you for the last 20 something years, right? They have had ingrained patterns of behavior between the two of you for like 20 years, right? So now all of sudden you come in and you throw a monkey wrench and you say, hey, Uncle Skip, I don't wanna talk about those politics or like, hey mom, I don't wanna have this conversation about my love life. Like where we start actually setting boundaries.

it often comes with a lot of pushback, which then is that like that extra drama, that little spice that gets added into the parties. And it can be really, really hard because I think if you're not feeling strong enough in those boundaries yet, it can be really emotionally draining, exhausting and a little bit heartbreaking that like your family who's supposed to love you is not respecting the boundaries you're putting in place. And I think it's just that they haven't done the work.

This is a new version of you. They don't know how to handle it. Like it's a surprise for them. They probably didn't even realize something was wrong in the first place because they're not even thinking about that. I don't know. I kind of went down a rabbit hole there, but what do you... Yeah.

Sophie (24:10)
No, I get what you're saying. I think as well, like if they are, if someone is, let's just say someone, let's say has gone on this whole mental health healing journey and they've really been doing a lot of work on themselves, they've been setting boundaries elsewhere in their life, they've been like implementing new routines, new behaviors, whatever, like they feel like they've transformed as a person and their mental health is like way better for it. If they've done a bit of deep digging work on themselves, they've most likely done a little bit of like inner child work.

of some format or taking themselves back to childhood experiences to identify where the root cause the problem has come from, which I think also brings up this whole new level of challenge because people are going to be like, now I know where this has come from. And there's going to be like extra resentment, for example, around that in that fine family dynamic as well. So when they come into that family dynamic, they're probably going to be a little bit on edge to figure out like what

Kelsey (24:41)
Yeah.

Sophie (25:08)
Now that they're more aware of the circumstances, they're going to just see it and feel a bit more uncomfortable potentially around the family as well. So that also adds, reckon, to a little bit more added overwhelm as well.

Kelsey (25:14)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, 100%. I was trying to think of some circumstances with my family holidays. So there's a period of time where I didn't see my mom's side of the family because I wasn't seeing my mom. And then I started seeing her again. And I remember the first holiday that I came back and I saw my cousins and it had been three years or something like that. And that was really, really hard.

because I felt like an outsider, like out of place. I'd been so close with them when we were younger and then all of a sudden in our like preteen years, things shifted and that's pretty like significant time period to go three years without seeing somebody. And I was still navigating the relationship with my mom at the time and she struggled with alcohol. And my biggest thing with like family stuff is like navigating other people's addictive behaviors, like my mom and dad, right?

there were so many years that I didn't drink. Now, post 21, I do drink and I even notice now, I can tell my family, because both my parents are gone, I can tell that sometimes they might be watching me to see like, how is she behaving? And it's subtle and maybe it's in my own head, but I get a sense that they worry about me because of my parents. And for me on the holiday, I don't have a problem with alcohol. When I do drink, I'm good at regulating and I love good alcohol, but I'm...

I don't drink during the week. I'm not pounding alcohol on the weekend. I've really solid, you know, boundaries around all that for years because my own fear, I didn't want to become my parents. But yeah, on the holiday, I'm like, yeah, you got the good whiskey. Let's have some of it. And I'll get a little toasty and like enjoy myself. And that's great. And I have like an uncle who loves and all that, but I can tell sometimes like my family watches, but I think about when I was younger and like with my mom, I like,

I had to do my best to balance between like, I didn't want to talk to her because she was drunk. And I had to be like, kind of like set my boundary and not be that snotty kid, even though I'm sure at moments I was snotty and like, I don't want to fucking talk to you right now. And that's like hard. I mean, even as like an adult, right? We choose like, we choose the family that we want to keep in our lives.

but it comes with the baggage of whatever they're dealing with and then them being able to follow your boundaries or not. And I think it can be really difficult in how you express that. There are some things that I have found can be really helpful. know holidays come with a lot of work in general, but I think doing a little bit of like pre-holiday preparation is often.

necessary, especially if you want to manage your mental health throughout it all. Do you know what I mean?

Sophie (28:17)
like preparing yourself for different circumstances, preparing like even sometimes I guess as well if you haven't seen a family member for like since this time last year so much has changed like preparing yourself with like conversation topics as well like I think that that's quite a good one to go in with and like also setting out your expectations if you know your dynamic was a certain way this time last year and you weren't comfortable with that

and you're expecting a miracle, you're expecting something to have changed in the past year. Again, as we've just said, unless they've done a bit of work on themselves, nothing's going to change. You might have changed, their circumstances probably haven't, and they're probably still going to show up in exactly the same way. They're going to ask you the exact same questions. They're going to have the whole same dynamic as they did this time last year. So just going in with the expectation that nothing has changed, because most of the time we only get let down by our own expectations. And I think a lot of

time if we have done so much work on ourselves and then we go into the situation expecting somebody else to have changed or the situation to be different or them to understand in a different way we're setting an expectation on that that probably isn't going to actually come to fruition and in which case that's our fault that's not that person's fault that's our fault for having that expectation so I think going in with like really realistic expectations as well is something that you can do to kind of

soften the situation when you get into it and maybe it's not what you thought you'd have hoped it to be.

Kelsey (29:41)
Yeah.

Yeah, no, I think you like, you hit the nail on the head with this. right, having, setting like clear expectations for yourself, which you could expect from friends and family. And then I think it like, it stems out further from there. Cause right, if you, if you're clear on what the expectations are, that's going to help you come up with communication, like talking points. It's going to help you prepare responses for what you're willing to share or not share based on certain questions you're going to get, right? Cause you know the expectation of how they're probably going to respond to certain things.

And I know it sucks not being able to share your full self, but right? Like, what are we doing here? Are we protecting ourselves in the moment or are we just sharing stuff because we want to and we feel confident in that and it doesn't matter, you know, what their response is. But I find that oftentimes for most people, that's not the case. Like they're just there to see family, say hello, have some food, be polite and nice. There's no point in getting down the rabbit hole of X, Y and Z. And so

being clear on those expectations, which helps you with those talking points and like your answers to certain questions, but also like expectations on what you can realistically do. Like you said, like you don't schedule a whole lot of things. If you know you can go to one thing, but then back to back doing another with the other side of your family or whatever it is, like trying to be a little bit more realistic in your schedule and what you're expecting of yourself. I also think people don't think about this one.

And especially now that like smoking cigarettes isn't a really big thing, but like taking breaks when you're at the family party. So if it means like you go outside and you get some fresh air and you kind of like remove yourself from the environment for a hot minute, go and do that. Make up an excuse. I got to go get something in my car. You know, make sure you have something in your car that you want to get or you purposely leave in there or you know what I mean? Like you want to just, you can always just say you're stepping outside because it's hot and stuffy, whatever it is, you do a little Irish break where you kind of.

scoot out and don't tell anybody, but I think things like that are also really helpful. I'm trying to think what else that typically comes to mind. I do think having boundaries around what you're willing to spend and not spend is also really helpful. And if there are people close enough in your family, you can let them know, then let them know ahead of time. Most people are more understanding than not.

Sophie (32:04)
I also think it's okay to not buy presents. Like it's okay to if you have, if you don't have the budget or you actually just don't want to, don't go and buy everybody a present. Like I feel like it needs to come from a place of like gift giving needs to go back to the place of like, I want to buy you a present because I feel this certain way about you. And like, I saw this and I thought of you and I loved it. I thought you'd love it. Blah, blah, blah. I think we've got to a point with gift giving where it just is so extravagant and people just get shit that they don't need.

Kelsey (32:25)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Sophie (32:31)
and people feel like the pressure to buy something for somebody even if they don't know them that well like you might not have seen your uncle for two years and yet you come into Christmas you feel like you've got to buy him a present you don't have to buy him a present one one thing i will say is last year i had a very different Christmas last year i haven't been home for Christmas since 2020 and it's now what 2024 so three Christmases i haven't had with my family

because I've been traveling, I've been abroad and last year I was invited to a Christmas to spend with somebody that I'd met traveling and they were Ecuadorian so I was going into a Christmas in a family that was only speaking Spanish I couldn't speak Spanish and it was a really eye-opening experience actually for me to be in Ecuador and have Christmas there because they have like the gift process like ranked down here

Like it is so low on their priority list and I found that so refreshing. I thought that that was such a lovely thing because I feel like yeah in the US UK like gift buying is like up here it's like one of our number one priorities for the day. Whereas in Ecuador it was all about the food, it was all about spending time with their family, it was all about like the kids and like the excitement and they only celebrate Christmas for like a few hours. It's like actually on Christmas Eve, so on the 24th in the evening for like

from like eight till midnight, for example. So I think that's another thing that comes with Christmas is the time pressure. Like if you go in around, let's say in the UK, example, most of the time, most people's Christmas is a whole day event, if not two, if not three days event. I really liked that about my Christmas last year was that I was in this environment where no one was putting pressure on me to buy a present. Like, and that wasn't, even if I had known this family really well and like...

Kelsey (33:57)
then.

Sophie (34:19)
I was lucky enough to get invited to their Christmas, which was lovely and I really appreciate that. So I did buy them presents, obviously, to say thank you for having me. But it wasn't a pressure that I felt that I had to buy them a present. And it wasn't a pressure that I had to feel that I had to stay there for all day and two days and three days. Like I could literally, I felt really like, even though I was in an environment that was actually out completely outside of my comfort zone, I was in a family that I'd just met speaking Spanish on Christmas day. Like that was pretty alien to me.

Kelsey (34:29)
Yeah.

Sophie (34:47)
I felt more comfortable doing that than I probably would have had I have gone to like a friend's house in England where there's all these expectations to me to buy gifts and presents for every single one of their family for example. Like I felt like there's a real pressure off your shoulders if you take away the gift buying side of it as well.

Kelsey (35:06)
Yeah, I agree. would say like with my family after, I think my both my families, they did a decent job of this is like the aunts and uncles got something for every niece and nephew, wasn't anything massive. I think the grandparents more so got stuff for everybody. But I would say like once we were all kind of like post college, which was still kind of late, but like all of us were post college, the gift giving just stopped, which.

Like, to be honest, I'm okay with, can't afford to get, you know, 20-something cousins, like, a gift, I can't do that. Not that we were giving gifts before, it was always our parents that were getting gifts for people, but I can imagine, like, the financial stress that my dad experienced, we couldn't have, we didn't have hot water sometimes. We were eating, you know, not the best of food, and like, then Christmas comes around, it's like, you wanna provide a nice Christmas for us, but now it's like, we have to go to this family party where...

we need to be able to put on the show and like, you know, present and give all the gifts and all those things. And so it's hard. So, mean, yeah, I think, I think it's dependent upon family from family to family. But I think that if you can express those boundaries early enough and you feel comfortable enough to express it to certain family members, I think people understand. I understand that there's like different traditions and it's a family by family basis.

But I think it's important to do some of this mental preparation ahead of time. How are you going to prepare for a conversation around, I'm sorry I didn't have gifts for people, or I am not able to make it this year, or I have to split time between here and here, or you know what I mean? I think it can be helpful to do some journaling about it, talk to close loved ones about it as much as you possibly can, talk to your therapist about it, about how do you frame and present things.

you know, cause at the end of the day, I mean, there's going to be some hard balls. I'm just going to tell actually a really quick, quick story. This was, what was it? A holiday? I don't know if it was a holiday, but I was visiting my grandparents with my, my aunt and my dad. And you know, I'm in, I think I was in college at this time and I was back for the holidays, but it wasn't a holiday event yet. And

You know, my grandpa was grandpa who sometimes flipped me a 20 and I hadn't really seen him as like an individual adult person. I just looked at him as grandpa. And we were eating and he, this side of the family, they're quite, my grandparents were quite religious and they had decent amount of money. And my grandpa was very opinionated on all of the topics that like,

is dividing the US right now, anywhere from politics to marriage and abortion and all of that. Very, very opinionated, but as I was younger, I never paid attention to it or I was never part of those conversations. And then all of sudden we're having dinner and he just starts laying into me about how your generation and you women have ruined the sanctity of marriage and all of this stuff because,

I'm 33, so this is, know, 10 years ago or whatever and I'm in college and our generation is a little bit, if you wanna say loose and fast, sure, but we're hesitant to get married. I know there's individual opinions upon, you know, sex before marriage, but I feel like it's more common these days than not. And then, you know, abortion's a whole nother like topic of conversation, right? And I'm sitting there like, at first I was like,

Yeah, grandpa, like, I don't know what you're talking about. Like, we don't really need to get into this. I don't know what you're talking about. We don't need to talk about this. And I kept repeating it. And they kind of kept hammering it to me. And so I was like, okay, we're gonna do this. We're gonna do this. I'm like, so let's talk about how sex.

is not just for procreating and women can get pleasure from it too, which is why we have a clitoris. So if you wanna talk about women ruining the sanctity of marriage, like it's not just about having sex procreate in marriage. And if you wanna talk about more of the sanctity, why don't you look at your two children here at the table. One had kids out of wedlock, both of them are divorced. They're the generation with the highest divorce rates. So if you wanna go there, let's go there. And he got all upset. And my grandma the whole time is like.

You know, stop it bud, stop it, like don't say anything. And he got so upset by what I said, he got up and he left the dinner table and went to his bedroom and closed the door and didn't talk to me the rest of the evening. We were fine after that, but it was like, I set my boundary, I said I didn't want to talk about this because I knew we have differing opinions. I'm not here to challenge your 50 some years of experience and your opinion on something like.

need to get into that with you. You're entitled to your opinion. I'm entitled to mine. But don't attack me at the dinner table.

Sophie (40:09)
I think you did the right thing though. You told him, you warned him, you said, don't challenge me on this because I don't want to talk about it. And then he pushed and pushed. And I think that that's something that does happen, especially in these high pressure family environments and someone's trying to get their point across because it's the only time that they're going to be heard for the next year kind of thing.

Kelsey (40:18)
Yeah.

Sophie (40:32)
you you tried to warn him what else could you have done? Like, I think you did exactly what you should have done and that's like set the boundary. If it doesn't get met, you've got to go for the conversation. Like, give your honest thoughts and opinion.

Kelsey (40:42)
Mm-hmm.

And I think it's important with this story. The reason why I shared this story, guys, is because, right, like, I set a boundary, it didn't go well, and I think it's important to also mentally prepare for what happens if a conversation doesn't go well. Like, in the end, I went to the bedroom door and I said, Grandpa, I'm leaving, love you, bye. And like that, we went our separate ways. And then like next time I saw him, it was like nothing had ever happened. And I later on got the sense that

conversations and arguments like that happened frequently amongst my grandpa and his kids and all that stuff. And that was my first experience with it. But like, I think it's important to think about what happens if it goes wrong and how do you prepare for that and what do you want to say to that person when the moment of tension has passed? Like how do you want to leave it and how do you want to take it for yourself and walk away with it? And not everyone's going to see eye to eye and

I still love him. My grandpa's passed now, but I still love him deeply. We got different opinions on stuff, but he was my grandpa and he used to want to taught me how to bowl and how to play tennis and like do all these things. And then just because of that, doesn't diminish the good experiences and the good relationship we had. But I understand that I needed to put some boundaries in place that I don't think he ever learned. He needed to put those boundaries in place. I mean, different generation, right? And not

not a war that I'm looking to start, but a battle I'll hold my ground on just so that I don't get walked all over.

Sophie (42:17)
Yeah, you've got two choices in that situation. You've got you can go down the route of like exactly what your grandma said, like just appease him, like don't start it, like don't go down this route because you can you she's seen it before she knows what's gonna happen. And like you can appease somebody and you can just be like, okay, like let it go. I guess it depends like there's always that kind of parameter of like, how far does this opinion like cross my

cost my boundary and if it's something like I think yours is something that directly impacts you so you were right in like challenging the conversation. I guess it depends on situation to situation conversation to conversation but I think it's always also worth just weighing up like okay how far am I willing to like go down the route of this conversation have this battle and is it worth me having this argument I'm not saying don't set your boundaries I think everybody should set their boundaries and like try and communicate their point of view for sure.

But there's also a peace of mind thing that comes into it and it's like, does it, in the grand scheme of things, is this going to change his opinion? Is this going to change the world? Is this going to like make anything better in this circumstance? I think you have to weigh up those things in that situation as well. And yeah, if each situation is going to be so different, it's hard to give advice on it. But I think you can do either appease the situation, just be like, okay, whatever, or you can set the boundary and try and like stand up for yourself or do whatever.

Kelsey (43:41)
Yeah. Yeah, it makes me think of this is like not holiday related, but very much so a condensed version of this happens in the holiday. Facebook, when the older generation of whoever, so I'm not going to get explicit, but there's someone in my family who likes to comment on my posts and twist it into some political thing.

Constantly. My posts are not, for the record, people, my posts are not political, has nothing to do with politics or, you know, hotbed conversations around immigrants or abortion or any of that stuff, right? Like, I'm not talking about any of that. Most of my stuff is business related. And he will comment on my things and just twist it. And because we have different political opinions, not that I really get into conversations with him about it because I hate it because he's often drunk and belligerent about these things.

But when it comes to it, I'm like, I'm not going to deal with this. I just, I don't block him, but I block so that he can't see my posts or so that he can't comment, that kind of thing. And then he'll like pop up on another platform and then send me more things. And I'm like, my God. So I like block him then. Don't get me wrong. It upsets me. It's not a war I'm looking to start. I know that I cannot win it because there's no reasoning there. There's no conversation. There's no discussion.

It's just blind throwing things at my face. So I'm not going to get in an argument about this with you and I'm just going to put it aside. But it does upset me every single time. It makes me really upset because this person I'm not close with and he's not treated me well in the past. And it's like, why are you attacking me for no reason? I don't even talk to you. I don't engage with you at all. I don't want to be involved. And so it upsets me and it'll ruin my day.

I will be really, really upset and I'll be thinking about it and then I stew about all the past experiences that we had and it kind of breaks me down. It's in association with my mom and her passing and all these things. So it brings up a lot of negative emotions for me. And so put this in the context of the holidays, right? Like this is an emotionally charged situation where you're with family and now you have to listen to someone like put their opinions on you or whatever it may be. It can be really difficult.

pick and choose your battles, just like Sophie said, like pick and choose what you want to fight for and you don't, what are you willing to tolerate, what you're not, and you can still put your boundaries in place and then you might just have to remove yourself from the situation because the other person can't help themselves, they can't control themselves, not that that's an excuse. But then you have to think about after the fact, and I think this is the last point I wanted to make is you need to do some post-recovery, post-holiday recovery. How are you going to

trying to soothe the heavy emotions and all the things that came up from the holidays, how are you going to smooth that over for yourself? How are you gonna feel the feelings you need to feel but not attach to them and then feel them and move through them and let go, right? Cause it does suck. doesn't diminish how much it hurts when someone doesn't listen to you setting your boundaries or doesn't respect your opinion or anything like that. It hurts.

So you have to be able to have some of that post decompression, like, you know, have a routine reset after the holidays, processing those emotional experiences, financial recovery steps, self-compassion practices, and then if possible, any relationship repair if it is what you want, right? I think that's important, right? How we deal leading up to the holidays, dealing with it in the holidays, and then after.

Sophie (47:30)
Yeah, I agree. think it is a high pressure time, like regardless, like whether you are celebrating it with family or not, like some people don't celebrate with their family. They might not choose to celebrate on their own or they might not have people to go and celebrate with. Like, so it's a high pressure time either way, because you know other people are experiencing it in a different way to you. And potentially in some cases it might be a time.

that you wish you were experiencing in a different way. And I feel like it's a good time, if that's the case, to really do everything that you can do to keep yourself happy and look after yourself in that moment in time, because it is a challenging time of year, especially because there is holiday after holiday after holiday. It's like a one after another. New Year's Eve, that's the other one. There's a celebration going back to the thing. It is literally just one after the other. And it's like,

Kelsey (48:19)
yeah.

Sophie (48:24)
Take time for you, look after your self care and practice your self care at that time of year because I think it's more needed then than probably any other time.

Kelsey (48:32)
Yeah, I agree. I know we kind of were a little all over the place, I feel like with this episode, but you know, whatever. Hope you guys enjoyed it. Hope you guys heard some of the shared experiences. I think what's important to remember is that, you know, you're not alone in your feelings when it comes to holiday stress. And to remember that like time won't heal holiday stress, action will. So you have to really focus on those things and just know that like setting, you know,

setting those boundaries, even just the smallest of boundary, it can make a big difference. So that's our friendly reminders to you guys. If you have any feedback or comments about holiday pressures or what you're preparing for and how you're gonna prepare or recommendations on routines and things, feel free to comment on this episode. And then we look forward to seeing you guys in the next one.

Sophie (49:28)
Thank you.