TINAH Talks | Mental Health and Wellbeing Podcast

42. The Holistic Approaches To Mental Health (That ACTUALLY Work)

• TINAH • Season 2 • Episode 42

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This week on the TINAH Talks podcast we’re chatting to Holistic Psychologist Louise Cridland to explore the transformative power of holistic mental health approaches. 

Louise Cridland is a Holistic Psychologist with over 12 years of experience in corporate and clinical psychology. Her personal struggles with anxiety and feelings of 'not enoughness,' along with the limitations of traditional therapy, led her to explore various spiritual and holistic traditions. She now blends traditional psychology with holistic practices to help clients identify patterns holding them back, align with their innate gifts and intuition, and step into their true power. 💪

Together we delve into the limitations of traditional therapies and discuss practices like breathwork, mindfulness, and the importance of nutrition and sleep hygiene. Discover how reconnecting with oneself and integrating holistic practices can lead to true fulfillment and well-being. Don't miss out on practical advice to develop core habits that foster resilience.

🗣️ Discussion Points:

- Holistic approaches to managing mental health and wellness.
- Healing beyond the mind by connecting with body wisdom and exploring spirituality.
- The necessity of going beyond traditional psychology to find true fulfillment and meaning.
- Living guided by heart and intuition to reduce anxiety.
- Combining Western and Eastern knowledge for optimal life experiences.

🤳 You can connect with Louise here:

Facebook: @louisecridland (https://www.facebook.com/loucridland/)

LinkedIn: Louise Cridland (https://www.linkedin.com/in/louise-cridland-76342232)

📩 Get access to Louises’ resources here:
5 Actionable Steps to Be More 'You' in Life & Business (Free PDF)(https://www.louisecridland.com/bemoreyoutoptips)

Energy Audit Program – 30% off with code LOU30
(https://www.louisecridland.com/energyaudit)

 #MentalHealthHolistic #AlternativeTherapiesForMentalHealth #TherapyForMentalHealth #HolisticHealingForAnxiety #HolisticTreatmentForDepression #HolisticApproachToMentalHealth #PhysicalHealthAndMentalHealthConnection #HowToHealMentalHealth #HolisticMentalHealth #TraditionalTherapy #HolisticApproaches 

About The TINAH Talks Podcast: TINAH (Time Is Not a Healer) is your go-to mental well-being marketplace and community! In this podcast, you can expect empowering conversations to support you in your mental health healing journey.

We are on a mission to: ✨ EMPOWER you to prioritize and take control of your mental health ✨ EDUCATE you on mental health and wellbeing practices ✨ ELIMINATE stigma around mental health

Free Mental Health Resources: Subscribe to get your FREE mental health toolkit here :

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💬 Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and share for more empowering discussions on mental health and self-care!

Kelsey (00:00.814)
Welcome back to another Tina Talks episode. I'm your host Kelsey. And today we have a wonderful guest, Louise Cridlin. She is a psychologist and we are going to be talking all about how to improve mental health, comparing it between the traditional pathway versus more holistic approaches. So welcome to Tina Talks, Louise.

Louise (00:20.354)
Thanks Kelsey, good to be here.

Kelsey (00:23.168)
Yeah, tell us a little bit about yourself, your background, where you're based. We'd love to hear a little bit about you.

Louise (00:30.626)
Well, I guess the more I keep talking, you will notice your listeners a slight accent. So I'm based in Sydney, Australia, and I've been a psychologist for the last 12 years. And I started training in organizational psychology, so worked in organizations, and then started to make the move to more therapy and coaching and mindset.

Kelsey (00:36.832)
Yep.

Louise (00:57.314)
And we're to talk a lot about it today. But I started to work and practice in spiritual traditions and start to merge the holistic approach with my clinical and my scientific training.

Kelsey (01:12.994)
Yeah, no, I love that. And we were kind of talking about this a little bit before the call. One thing we, and we're going to talk about traditional versus holistic, but holistic is still based in science. It's just a very different roundabout approach. That's not like direct talk therapy, right? That's what most people think of in terms of traditional.

Louise (01:33.858)
Traditional, yeah, I would consider it being in a room talking, talking about your thoughts and your emotions. And there's just, well, there's so many different therapies out there, but there are so many different non-traditional approaches where you're not actually in a room anymore. But also that traditional approach can also be the medication route as well.

Kelsey (01:57.228)
Yeah, yeah. So, kind of just honing in on traditional routes for dealing with and improving mental health. We typically think of things like cognitive behavioral therapy, psychotherapy, medications like anti-anxiety meds or antidepressants. And then of course, there's kind of more clinical treatments if someone has to get ECT for more extensive kind of symptoms. But I think a lot of traditional routes, they tend to...

first focus on symptom management, right? Or maybe correct me if I'm wrong here.

Louise (02:32.47)
Yeah, it's definitely assessing what is wrong. Yes, it's also looking for strengths and the resources, internal and external resources that a person has, but the medical clinical model is certainly focused on finding markers or symptoms about what's actually wrong within the individual, whether it's anxiety, depression or something else.

Kelsey (02:37.454)
Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (02:58.658)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I know that even today there's still a lot of stigma around traditional approaches, right? People don't want to get on medications or don't want to be known for being on medications. The medications themselves come with different side effects. And then there's also just accessibility, I think. At least for me, like right now, I don't have insurance. So for me to get a therapist is pretty much inaccessible, at least in the US.

are my business partner for Tina. She's from the UK and even with kind of their more open platform for like access to medical care and healthcare and all that, she for her, was a process to get a therapist and she still had to pay out of pocket for certain things. And she was really lucky because she had private insurance through her business, through like a company she worked for way back when. And I just know that sometimes that

traditional route can be a little bit more difficult for people as it's kind of similar in Australia and I'm not familiar with the healthcare system there.

Louise (04:02.946)
It sounds a little bit different. You can definitely access a psychologist regardless of insurance. So it sounds a little bit more accessible to the states. But it's still a pretty overwhelming process. People don't really know. I mean, it's getting better, but it's overwhelming to even find a psychologist and then find the right one. So, and it's really hard.

Kelsey (04:11.15)
Mm-hmm.

Louise (04:30.87)
The way I work with clients is really just trying to develop their sense of self in terms of helping them really start to listen to that inner voice. We've all got that inner voice, not the critical one, the one that knows ourselves and knows what we want outside of societal expectations and really helping them strengthen that. And why I was mentioning that is because some people are faced whether they take medication or not. And I, I'm not a psychiatrist, so I can't prescribe medication.

but I will work with a client to help them find their own answer because it is such an individual process and it's very different for different people. like I think we were mentioning before, when people are maybe in the lower to mid range of a mental health concern, sometimes taking an antidepressant can actually mask.

what is really going on and so what that means they can't or it's really hard to get to the root of the problem so then that means they stay stuck. They stay stuck in with their anxiety or their depression or whatever it might be.

Kelsey (05:42.86)
Yeah, no, that's a really solid point. mean, I've never really thought about it that way. I myself went on medication when I was having, I had a severe major depressive episode that came with suicidal ideation. And so that for me was abnormal and I was not, I was starting to kind of not be able to keep myself together in normal environments and things that would norm would like actually help me. So, but I can see how antidepressants, cause

Antidepressants work differently for everybody. So some people feel really numbed out on them. Some people for me, I was like your great example of that commercial where someone takes an antidepressant in that cloud that's hanging over you just all of sudden like lifts and dissipates. Like that's how I had immediate relief. But I know that's not the case for everybody. I think and I think traditional approaches are they one

Louise (06:13.207)
you

Kelsey (06:36.91)
100 % have a place in society. There is a need for them, but you're right. Like it's a whole different challenge with, know, do I take medication? Do I not? Or how do I find the right therapist for me? And sometimes that can be very overwhelming if we're already struggling in the first place. And I think sometimes holistic approaches, and we'll just use kind of holistic as the opposite word of traditional here.

they can be a little bit more accessible to people today. So when you think of like a holistic approach in psychology, what comes to mind for you and what do you do in your practice specifically?

Louise (07:18.658)
Again, yeah, it's a broad term. And again, it would look different for different coaches or therapists or psychologists. But for me, a big part of why I feel people are struggling is because they're disconnected from themselves. So that inner voice that really knows what they desire and what they want, aside from what is expected of them, they're disconnected from the people in their life.

Kelsey (07:22.808)
Yeah.

Louise (07:48.278)
and they're disconnected from nature, like the earth, the place that we're actually living on. And so holistic for me is helping people start to reconnect to all of those things. And particularly, I'd love to talk about this concept that I learned from Light Watkins, and he talks about the head and the heart voice. And so I introduce that a lot to my clients because it's starting to help people strengthen

Kelsey (08:11.694)
Mm-hmm.

Louise (08:17.28)
that inner voice, whether you call it intuition, you've got instinct or whatever it is, everyone knows they have it. It plays out differently for different people. But when people can strengthen that, life becomes a lot clearer, not always easier, but a lot clearer and people become more fulfilled because they're actually taking actions that are aligned with what really matters to them.

Kelsey (08:32.558)
you

Kelsey (08:44.012)
Yeah, you're preaching to the choir because I think a big part of, me, right, I love what you're saying. for those, mean, some of our audiences listened to these episodes before, but if you haven't, right, I was on my own at 16, but I did the whole, you know, went to school and got the big girl job and paid off my debt and all those things. And then before going on more in the psychology field, I quit to travel and I ended up traveling for seven years. And during that time, one of my core goals was

I want to be able to hear my inner voice better. I really struggled with that to really understand, okay, what do I want versus what are other people requesting of me or what is society putting on me based on the typical standards that have been developed? And I really didn't get an opportunity to explore those things for myself as a kid. I had to grow up really, really fast and take care of other people. And so I lost that voice. Like I couldn't hear it.

I couldn't find it. didn't know. I didn't know it wasn't my gut. didn't know if it was me, my negative self, you know, because we all have that negative voice in our head. So sometimes was this my anxiety out of worry saying like, no, we should do this versus this or, you know, it was, was very hard to discover. And I think a nice way of like putting it kind of what you're saying. like a holistic approach really is about bringing the mind, the body and the environment all together so that you can, you know,

function in alignment with all three things, right? Like that's kind of the idea here.

Louise (10:16.61)
Yeah, yeah. And so it offers so many different aspects or approaches versus just sitting in a room talking about your thoughts. And I loved hearing about your story. I have a different story, but I found myself in this. I was starting to be a psychologist at the time and had a significant relationship breakup and was struggling with anxiety and having panic attacks.

I went and saw a clinical psychologist and I remember looking around the white rooms and sitting on the grey chair and seeing the grey carpet and we were looking at the whiteboard on the wall and we were trying to challenge my irrational thoughts. And that just did not cut it when I didn't want to talk about my anxiety. I was so anxious and I didn't want to talk about them being irrational. It just wasn't helpful even though some of them were and some of them weren't.

And so that really led me down my path of going there's got to be something else and I've actually got to take responsibility for this even though I'm training to be a psychologist. I've got to take responsibility and look for other approaches to help me through this.

Kelsey (11:29.187)
Yeah. Yeah. I think when I like, when I look at like holistic approaches, sometimes right talk therapy can be like a direct approach. We're looking into past trauma or things, or then there's other types of therapy like solution focus therapy, where we're just thinking how can we change the perspective and move forward and focus on our goals and that kind of thing. And I think sometimes you need to, God, there's an old analogy for it I don't know what it is. So I'm just going to make this up right now. It's

You you have to get to the other side of the mountain. It's not about going up and over. You have to go around it. And so you're not necessarily conquering the mountain directly, but you have to take an alternative route. And we kind of touched a little bit about this before this episode. I, for me, the thing that like was a game changer and helping me reground and reconnect with myself. And I had had experience with therapy. I had good experiences. I had bad experiences. It was helpful at times when I needed it. And I'd had medication before.

But the thing that really started to help me like gain a better sense of control and like feeling empowered with working on my mental wellness, I stumbled into breath work and I originally didn't get into it because of my anxiety and my mental health. I started working out more because of my mental health. That was like a holistic approach. I was like, I'm gonna lean into.

physical activity before I wean off of my antidepressant because I've been on it for four years. And so I'm going to make sure I have that in place to help support me in my mental health before I get off of it. But I started to do breath work because I had found for those who don't know, there's Wim Hof breathing, is technically it's called tummo breathing. It's if that's the old ancient name for it. But Wim Hof is the guy who's like made it really popular and he now teaches it to everybody. It's like a deeper, intensive.

breathing and you get like a nice little high off of it. So I got into it because I was told that it really helps with not fixing but improving your immune system. And being that I come from a background filled with trauma, AKA a lot of high cortisol levels for a very, very long time. And I continue to like experience high stress because of trauma and issues and things like that.

Kelsey (13:49.422)
cortisol was just jacked through the roof, which was affecting my immune system, and I would get sick all the time. And now all this actually stems back to my mental health, but I was looking at like the symptoms of like, I don't want to be sick anymore. And I got into breathing and then I realized, my God, my nervous system, I finally like healing and I'm kind of coming back into myself and feeling more grounded and at home with myself and it.

It took a bit of time, like, was, that was my, the holistic approach, that was the game changer for me, I think.

Louise (14:26.144)
Yeah, and I think, I mean, I love breath work too and I also practice it. And for me, it was certainly meditation that was my entry point into, well, what the holistic approach helped me find. And it was a spiritual tradition at that time. It was Buddhism. And then I later went to yoga and then now I kind of just pull from everywhere. But whether you're into spirituality or not, what I really learned is that I could no longer run.

from what I was feeling inside and I tried for many years to run, to numb, to distract. And so I had a really busy head all the time. I couldn't be alone. I was really scared to be on my own. And when I did feel, when I was alone, I was either really bored or I just felt really depressed. So it was like when I had that quiet time, all the stuff that I was hiding from would bubble up. So I would just avoid it.

And so meditation was really that tool for me that helped me confront and actually I know the word is cheesy, but it really was surrender to what I was feeling and let myself feel. And whether it's breath work or yoga or meditation, it doesn't actually matter. It's really, it's finding what works for you.

Kelsey (15:38.487)
Yeah.

Kelsey (15:47.34)
Yeah, 100%. And I think like that comes back to that, that I don't know who this quote is from, but it's like, in order to get over it, you have to go through it, right? Like you got to surrender to those emotions. I think that's a lot of where, I mean, maladaptive coping mechanisms and then just ongoing mental health issues stem from is from our fear of, my God, I don't want to feel this way.

Louise (15:56.268)
Mmm.

Louise (15:59.938)
Yeah.

Kelsey (16:13.742)
Am I going to feel this way forever? And what happens if I allow myself to fully feel it? Will I just collapse into an oblivion? And so, instead of dealing with it, we start coping by distracting, oftentimes with maladaptive mechanisms, drinking, drugs, sex, whatever. Or, you know, we kind of just push it to the side and ignore it, which then bubbles up later into kind of more full bloom mental health issues.

Louise (16:41.344)
Yeah. Yeah.

Kelsey (16:43.744)
I love that one. a yoga girl. So I love me some yoga. That's been another physical grounding practice for me. I think it might be helpful for people who are listening if we could break down the different types of holistic approaches from mind, body, environment, social connections, and then kind of like emotional regulation. You kind of mentioned mindfulness practices like meditation, and we've talked about breathing exercises.

I'm just pulling from a list here. What are some other ones for our minds that we can really lean into that's more of a holistic approach?

Louise (17:19.968)
Yeah, well it comes back to my experience as well and one of the most profound teachings that I learnt was that everything that was happening in my life was a teacher. So I could learn, I could learn from whatever was happening and so this is certainly a mind strategy because on top of trying to run and avoid and distract we are resisting.

Kelsey (17:34.584)
Mm-hmm.

Louise (17:50.306)
We don't want to feel whatever it is, whether it's anxious or flat. We don't want to feel those things. So we resist and we try and just pretend it's not happening or really just fight against it. And so a holistic approach is starting to have a bigger perspective and whether it's a spiritual perspective or a philosophical perspective that everything in your life is teaching you something. So you can always learn something and that

Kelsey (18:17.4)
Yeah. Yeah.

Louise (18:20.022)
Yeah.

Kelsey (18:21.836)
No, I love that. I'm trying to think of like a way to make it super concise because we talk about like a lot of core action, know, coping mechanisms. How can you start working on things to improve your mental health? you know, like we said, we talked about meditation, we talked about breath work, but I think what you're talking about in actual practice is journaling and a little bit of like cognitive reframing, which I know that is from traditional psychology. But how you do that cognitive reframing can come from

Louise (18:41.089)
Yeah.

Louise (18:46.592)
Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

Kelsey (18:50.316)
what you said, right? Those different spiritual aspects, philosophical aspects, but trying to zoom out a little bit and build an alternative perspective, an alternative narrative than what we're used to and what we've grown to develop, right?

Louise (19:04.822)
Yes, yes, yes. And journaling is a great, I was going to talk about that a little bit later in terms of the practical things that I would tell people, but that is certainly something, whether it's journaling or slowing down, we need to find some way to, it may not be full blown meditation. I know some people really struggle with that and that's where I think breath work can be really helpful because it's a bit more, you know, tangible and you've got something to focus on.

Kelsey (19:06.626)
Yeah. Yeah.

Louise (19:34.582)
but journaling or even just reflecting before you go to bed on what's working, what isn't working. allowing yourself to slow down is another pathway towards hearing that inner voice again. If we just keep filling up and our mind is just so overstimulated, it is really hard to start to hear that gut instinct or that intuition, whatever you want to call it.

Kelsey (20:00.216)
Yeah.

Yeah, well, okay, I'll, guys, I'll throw myself under the bus here and we'll use me as an example, really. You can use me as an example. For people who have a hard time slowing down, cough, cough, not me, what do you recommend to put into practice for that? I mean, I have some things that I do, but I'd be curious to hear what you would suggest for really intentionally slowing down. I think it's hard for a lot of people who...

one or more on the anxious side of things. And even outside of that with the pressure that there is to perform in society these days that I don't know about how you guys feel in Australia, but in the US there's this constant demand for you have to perform and you have to continue to perform better than the last time you performed. And it's all about what can you produce and contribute to everything around you. And it's a lot and it creates this pressure that you don't slow down.

from.

Louise (20:59.958)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, look, and this is a hard question and maybe hard for some, but if I, if you were coming to me, I would ask you, what is the busyness or the constant doing? What is that helping you avoid in your life? Some people that might be too much. So then I would, because we're avoiding it for a reason, right? We're avoiding it because it's...

Kelsey (21:17.762)
Yeah. Okay. That's great.

Kelsey (21:24.75)
Right.

attacking me, Louise. Come on.

Louise (21:30.53)
Because I get it, you know, we're avoiding because it's painful, it hurts, it hurts. Another thing what I love is and it comes from a mindfulness approach and a lot of the therapies and mindfulness approaches are actually taken from spiritual traditions that have been around for thousands of years and most people don't realize that but it's this idea of we have two different modes. So there's the being mode and the doing mode.

And most people are just in that doing mode all the time. And so that's planning, analyzing, problem solving. So it can be very helpful in our day-to-day lives. It's goal oriented, it's achievement focused. And then you've got the being mode and that's more about being more in your body. So noticing at the sunset or noticing the wind or whatever that might be.

Kelsey (22:00.64)
Mm-hmm.

Louise (22:27.252)
It could also be going for a surf or going for a walk just for the goal of doing that. Like there's no goal. And so what people don't realize is we need both to really feel happy, fulfilled, grounded. We need to be tapping into both of those different modes. So I would just get someone who's really busy all the time just to start to notice how busy they are. And can you start to put moments in your life

Kelsey (22:35.704)
Yeah. Yeah.

Kelsey (22:47.758)
Mm-hmm.

Louise (22:57.162)
If presence is hard, you I know sometimes being present is hard, how can you find those moments where you feel really connected? You know, how do you love to move your body? What brings you joy just for the sake of doing those things? So it doesn't have to be hardcore meditation or presence. It can be these tiny moments.

Kelsey (23:16.268)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I love that. You're preaching to the choir and I love it and I think that it's fantastic and I think it's lot of what every, you know, people who are listening they need to hear. Because I think, right, again, sometimes to get over the mountain you have to take a different route. Maybe you're going through the bottom of it or you're going around the base of it and that might mean not directly, you know, challenging head on. What are you avoiding and what's going on there but reconnecting with yourself.

in other ways mentally, physically, emotionally. And so I love that. And so I did want to touch on physically with the body. Like we've mentioned yoga. I'm really big into, I try to make sure, especially during the winter here, walking and strength training and all that. But think two things that people don't really think about when it comes to like a coping mechanism or a holistic approach to managing mental health is nutrition and sleep.

or sleep hygiene. I would say for me, when I started kind of really honing in on my mental health, the first thing that I focused on was my sleep and having like really good sleep hygiene. Cause one, I'm a sleepy baby. always have been, but like I noticed when you start processing a lot of things, you get more, you're more exhausted. And I think holistic approaches to how you're managing your sleep, how you're managing your diet, those small joyous kind of

Louise (24:15.906)
Mm.

Kelsey (24:45.554)
moments that you can be present about and be intentional about is another way of kind of slowing down and helping your nervous system in a different approach.

Louise (24:56.576)
Yeah, yeah and if we take eating or nutrition as from a more holistic approach then it's not just food. We are providing our like this physical vessel that we have and have for a limited time and it's being really aware of how can I fuel that in the most nourishing way.

I was going to say healthy, but I don't think that's the right way. It's actually, how can I nourish my body? And I notice it in my own life, like when I'm really busy and stressed, it's just like, just slap anything together. But then when I've got more space, I'll go to the markets with my girls and we'll get fresh herbs. And then it's a totally different experience to create something that is really beautifully nourishing. I know that it's come from a beautiful market. So it's come from.

Kelsey (25:26.914)
Mm-hmm.

Louise (25:54.934)
beautiful plate, a farm and the whole process of making food feels very different and so even just starting to think about are you just shoving in whatever because you are stressed or you are busy and how can you be a bit more intentional about it.

Kelsey (26:11.182)
Yeah.

Yeah, I love that. I think that's great. All right, yeah. So what were some of the other areas we talked about? There was, I know there was social connection and then environment. and sleep. Yeah, sleep.

Louise (26:24.578)
Sleep just quickly. This is a big one for me especially with anxiety. So when I was really struggling to fall asleep I would start to create a sleep ritual and I don't know if you've heard of yoga nidra. It sounds a bit out there but it's just a guided meditation but it's so powerful to help you fall asleep or even to get you into that more slower zone.

So that became something that I would use daily when I was really struggling to sleep. But also then just being aware of it doesn't have to be forever, but if you're struggling with sleep, you've got to look at your screen time before going to bed. And no one wants to hear that. But if you think about the lights and the impact on your melatonin levels and then the impact on your body, it doesn't have to be forever, but it is something that you need to look towards.

Kelsey (26:56.087)
Mm-hmm.

Louise (27:19.52)
I was talking to someone the other day about preparing for an interview and he was like, how can I get a good sleep before the interview? And I said, well, don't just think about the night before, think about the whole day before at the very least in terms of setting yourself up for a good sleep. So how much caffeine are you drinking? Are you drinking at after 12? How much caffeine are you eating in terms of chocolate and all of that sort of thing?

Kelsey (27:33.678)
Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (27:39.864)
Yeah.

Louise (27:46.656)
or even hardcore exercise right before bed. So sleep isn't just right before bed, it is starting to look at the whole picture.

Kelsey (27:49.838)
Yeah, not a good idea.

Kelsey (27:58.04)
Yeah, you had a lot of what I do when I work with business owners, a lot of people who are in the marketing realm and right, are entrepreneurs, they are productive and they are activated and good to go, but they also tend to be an anxious bunch or they just have like, you know, that energy they don't know what to do with. when they've, you know, burnt themselves into the ground trying to build their business, they did a great job, but now they're burnt. A lot of what we look at is that how do we return back to slowing down?

Okay, it's not just the night before, let's set ourselves up for like, are you having three cups of coffee after 3 p.m.? Like, yes, of course, your sleep is not really great. Yeah, no, so I love that. Okay, so the other two areas we were talking about was social connections and I think environment, right? For kind of a holistic approach. What would you like to tackle first?

Louise (28:39.212)
Yeah, yeah.

Louise (28:50.198)
Yeah.

Louise (28:54.824)
Well in terms of social connections it's also really thinking about how you want to spend your time on this earth with this life that you have and if you were to ask your 80 or 90 year old self I would say most 90 year olds would talk about the love and the people in their life and I read the other day about

I can't remember the author but he was talking about loving well, being loved and loving well. And that really is such a core thing for all of us. Yes, we get sidelined into achieving and wanting to find our passion and work and be successful and all of those things are really important. But you also have to just get clear on what is really important to you. And social connections, it needs to be more than just on a screen.

And so how are you prioritizing that? And how are you potentially setting boundaries around the people that give you energy and light you up and then setting boundaries and saying no to things that aren't aligned or that drain your energy. And that can be sometimes really hard for people who might struggle with people pleasing or wanting to struggle with confrontation or anything like that. But talking about burnout, if we don't put ourselves first,

Kelsey (29:54.53)
Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (30:21.902)
Yeah.

Louise (30:23.708)
and we don't get more intentional about who we're spending our time with, it can lead to it can lead to unhappiness, it can lead to mental health issues.

Kelsey (30:35.32)
Yeah, no, absolutely. I think people pleasing is probably a big one for a lot of people, right? We develop, a lot of times it's developed out of survival, right? Like we're just trying to survive some difficult situations, some difficult people, and we found the best way to do that is to people please. And that really comes back to, right, finding your inner voice.

Louise (30:47.094)
Yeah.

Louise (30:59.554)
Hmm.

Kelsey (30:59.578)
and recognizing that you are deserving of love, you are deserving of respect, you are deserving of having your own needs. And then how can we carry that forward in our practices and things? And I like what you said about social connections just in terms of, right, we have to have lives off of screens. I'm currently managing two different businesses. My life is on a screen and I don't like that. That's not what I originally wanted to get into this for. I love what I do.

And I'm new-ish to the city that I'm living in. I'm 33 and every place I go, I've moved quite a bit in the last several years. My number one goal is how do I meet other women who I can be friends with? I can start to build a community. I've realized how valuable that is. even, I'll tell you, making friends is hard when you're young, making friends is hard when you're older, but like it is so worth it. And I've built...

really solid relationships that I know that I can rely on in times of need or that I can share my joy with when I have those moments. And I think that for a lot of people, we forget that. forget, like you get older and you become an adult and you have a lot of adult responsibilities and then you forget like, having a friend is really important. There's actually, I keep seeing this on Instagram right now. It's called like the female something effect.

I know if it's like FSE or something. And it's where having like one really good girlfriend that you you've seen once a week or whatever, they're showing studies that it like significantly lowers our cortisol levels. And I know guys don't do the same thing. And this is why mental health issues is so prevalent in men. We did like a whole November month on that. But yeah, there's something to be said for having relationships. They're really powerful.

Louise (32:52.736)
Yeah, and if you look at the science that we're mammals, we're socially wired, our brains need it. And I think what I find with a lot of clients is they might have connections, but they don't feel like they've found their people. And that can be a real challenge. And I always say, if you're trying to meet a person, whether it's an intimate person or a friendship, you've got to do the things that you love.

And by doing the things that you love and actually staying true to who you are, yes, you might repel some people but then you attract your people. And so this again comes back to your inner voice around learning to be more of who you are so you can find your people.

Kelsey (33:41.452)
Yeah, 100%. I love that. And I think that's a really good way to do it, right? Just go do the things that you love and you'll find that people, you know, your vibe will attract your tribe kind of deal. So, love that. And so it's, guess this brings us to our last kind of point of like holistic approaches and impairments, which I know some people aren't, they're like, what's the science behind this? But there is, there's science behind, like you declutter your space.

Your stress levels lower. Your cognitive load lowers. And I'm someone who I can't function in a cluttered space. I can't do it.

Louise (34:18.796)
Yeah, well, I actually really didn't know much about this until I read Marie Kondo's book. And do you know that book? It's... Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I... It was pretty transformative. And I love that actually the way she wrote the book, she's a very spiritual person. And the Japanese culture where every thing...

Kelsey (34:26.797)
Okay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Louise (34:47.53)
It has an essence to them and energy, whether it's a desk or a tree. So I really love that sort of idea. So yes, whether it is taking stock of what all the stuff you have in your life and does that bring you joy or are you just trying to fill that void? Like we were talking about earlier, are you just trying to buy more stuff to get that dopamine hit to get that reward? But then really is it adding.

Kelsey (35:15.032)
Thanks.

Louise (35:17.536)
adding to your life. So there's that environment, so the space that you live in. And then it's also how you connected to nature. And that's actually getting a lot more research. I don't know why we need research to tell us that being connected to the earth that we live on. But anyway, I know some people help find it helpful when they have some research backing.

Kelsey (35:23.756)
Mm-hmm.

Louise (35:45.442)
certain things but most people will say if you get outside and you feel the sun or you go to ocean or you go for a walk in the bush or the forest or whatever it is that something shifts it may be tiny or it may be massive and we are meant to be connected to the physical environment around us.

Kelsey (36:02.072)
Yeah.

Kelsey (36:09.1)
Yeah. Have you ever heard of the term Shinrin Roku? Yeah. Yeah. So for those of you who haven't, I'm like, I'm a big word person. So I always like finding words in other cultures because there are oftentimes words that describe whole meanings or phrases. Shinrin Roku specifically applies, I think it's Japanese and it applies to almost like forest bathing, but like it's not just

you're like you're in a forest, you're surrounded by lush greenery, you've got like sunshine coming in through the trees. It's like the whole experience that word Shinminroku describes the whole experience of it. And that's one of my favorite ways to re-ground and connect with nature. And that like it's very important to me to have that. I can feel that physical shift and right and it makes sense. You're surrounded by like lush plants that are producing oxygen. Of course you're

Louise (36:47.692)
Yeah.

Kelsey (37:04.654)
Your levels are going to shift a little bit.

Louise (37:06.562)
Yeah, totally. And coming back to that idea of the being and the doing mode, the being mode, when you're in nature, not always, but you do tend to feel your body more, feel the warmth of the sun or the wind. So you're in your sensory body more. And what that means, you're then out of here. And out of here creates a lot of great things in our life and also a lot of problems.

Kelsey (37:27.384)
Mm-hmm.

Louise (37:32.384)
So the more, like we're not just ahead, right? But most people are stuck in their head all day, every day, and it's creating so many issues. So we need to, and this is when people talk about becoming embodied. It means just to actually be more aware of your body. And so noticing the senses. And so being in nature is such a great way to do that.

Kelsey (37:55.83)
Yeah, gosh, I'm glad you brought that up because it also brings one more area of holistic approaches that we weren't going to touch on, but the emotional regulation, right? Like we've got the mind, we've got our body, we've got our environment, our social connections, but that emotional regulation, like our being able to remove ourselves and sensory wise to do some sensory grounding and things like that can be really important. And when I think of like a holistic approach, like

emotional freedom technique. That's not a true psychology, traditional psychology technique, but it is a holistic approach that is rooted in old Chinese practices that can have significant effects on helping emotionally regulate. And I mean, I don't know if there's any other like holistic practices that you tend to lean on or that you recommend, but

I think sometimes again, right, instead of going over the mountain, we have to go another route and it can be something as simple as acknowledging and labeling our emotions, letting ourselves feel the emotions. We don't have to dive deep into what's the narrative that came with it or how am I going to change it moving forward? It's just sitting and being with your emotions and allowing yourself to be able to be in them and not in them and vice versa.

Louise (39:09.804)
Yeah and I think a couple of things that are really important in terms of emotions for me and how I work with clients and also what I went through myself to really come back to me is to start to see an emotion as a sensation, a sensation in your body. And when I really started to be able to notice the sensations of the emotions, I realised, hey, okay, yeah, it doesn't feel good.

but it's not as scary as what I thought I was avoiding. I can actually be with this physical sensation. I can breathe, I can be aware, whatever it might be and it peaks and then it goes and then it might peak again and then it'll go. And that was a great learning for me that our emotions, we cannot stay stuck if we are present and really start to see our emotions as these

sensations of what they are and where are they? Is it in your chest? Is it in your throat? In your tummy? And then can you make space for them? Can you breathe through them? Finding whatever works for you. And another thing that I found really helpful is seeing your emotions as tools, their information and they're guiding you. They're not wrong. And so when people are finding themselves depressed or anxious or whatever it might be,

Sometimes it can be because they were living for someone else. They were living according to society's expectations. They were not living in tune with who they are and what's aligned for them. And so the emotion, the depression or the anxiety is actually so important because it's telling us we need to go down another path. Something's not quite right. And yeah.

Kelsey (41:00.142)
Yeah, so I think there's power, I think when you start to pay attention to that, you know, can be labeled as emotional or whatever it is. And I don't think that's case at all. I think it's a superpower that you're able to identify and sit with and process through emotions. And so I think everything you said, I love that. It was very beautifully said. For the sake of time, I wanna ask before we kind of start to wrap up.

what do you recommend in terms of integrating the two approaches, right? Because when I think of holistic approaches, I think of more kind of developing habits and routines, like how can I lean into these practices to help myself manage things either preemptively so that I'm resilient in the face of stuff or so that I have it, it will kick in when I am having a bad moment and then...

for certain other aspects there is that traditional route, but I don't see that as much as like a habitual routine kind of thing. Would love to hear what your thoughts are in integrating the two and all that.

Louise (42:06.412)
Yeah and I talk about it and again this has come from my own personal experience of how I got myself out of anxiety is really coming to a solid daily foundation or practice. Daily strategies, daily tools that you can draw on and at first you might feel a bit hard done by that why do I have to do all of this stuff just to kind of be above the surface.

But over time you actually realize that you feel so much more alive and fulfilled when you do have these incredible tools that you can draw on and you can handle everything that life throws at you. And that's a beautiful thing about starting to sit with your emotions and having these daily tools that you can start to learn and know that you've got that internal resilience. So that yes, that's the foundation and

It's finding the daily habits and we can talk about them if there's time but that suit you and that are best for you. And then there's also the importance of speaking to someone. I have done traditional therapy and although I didn't find cognitive behavioral therapy that helpful, I have tried a lot of other more mainstream therapies and they have been really helpful. Talk talking therapies.

And so I would not be where I am today if I have not invested in myself and not sought help from a professional. But again, you have to be discerning about is this person just because they have a title, is this person right for me? Do they feel aligned? And so that's really important. And so having someone that might be through a difficult period, you see a professional and then you have your daily habits.

And then maybe you'll go through a period where you don't need to see a professional regularly. And then you're just sticking with your daily foundation, which is what I say, you need this foundation to really feel fully alive, fully well. I mean, we can't always be fully well, but not really heightened with anxiety or really, really flat.

Kelsey (44:15.67)
a great overall kind of view of it. And I know you mentioned like talking about habits. If you were to identify to create this foundation, what are the core habits that you would recommend people to focus on developing?

Louise (44:28.354)
So moving your body in a way that you love. I didn't call it exercise because it has to be something that again, coming back to me making the meal with the herbs, it's like, how can I nourish my body in a way that feels fun? And it may not always feel fun, but most of the time. And so a lot of people feel like they have to go to the gym. I've never been into the gym and I tried several times and I could just never stick to it because it wasn't my thing.

Kelsey (44:34.765)
Yeah?

Louise (44:58.114)
Another thing around moving your body, you have to be aware if you're really anxious. Some people are doing, I don't know if you've got a similar thing, it's called F45 here in Australia. It's really intense. So people think they're doing the right thing by doing this hardcore exercise. But if you're really anxious, you're only just going to create more stress hormones in your body. So can you try something different, whether it's Pilates or yoga or breath work, even though that's not moving, but it's still

Kelsey (45:08.396)
Yeah. Yeah.

Louise (45:27.53)
moving your breath and oxygen. So how can you find ways that you enjoy to move your body? So that's one. Two, you've got to slow down. You've got to find a way that you can have a reflective practice. And I call it that because it doesn't have to be meditation. It could be five minutes, five minutes before bed, five minutes in the morning. It could be setting intentions. It could be journaling. It could be just reflecting on what's working, what isn't working.

Kelsey (45:30.659)
Yeah.

Louise (45:56.204)
But that's really tapping into the being more that I was talking about and not just the doing. Thirdly, we've talked about it's the emotional stuff. It's starting to face your emotions. Really important. You're never going to live a really fulfilled, loving, happy life if you don't start to feel them. So that's another element. And I think like there's a lot of other ones, but

If we just keep it simple, I would start with those.

Kelsey (46:25.806)
Yeah.

Kelsey (46:31.148)
Yeah, and I kind of, taught, touched on each of those in the episode. So I think it kind of goes very, very well. okay, great. Well, gosh, this has been such a great conversation. and I could keep going. I know I think both of us could keep going, but, to, to wrap up a little bit, I ask all of our guests, what is currently for you?

Louise (46:34.059)
Yeah.

Louise (46:45.117)
I know.

Kelsey (46:54.574)
your number one personal coping mechanism that you really like to lean into right now. And I know they change over time, so I just ask, what's your favorite one that has been really great for you as a recent?

Louise (47:08.938)
I have to choose one. Look, I'll choose two. I've tried lots and I always change my tools and so that's another thing. You often need to try different things. more recently it's been breath work and then also really

Kelsey (47:12.162)
I'll let you choose two, how about that?

Kelsey (47:26.446)
What kind of breath work?

Louise (47:30.226)
it's the Soma app. I'm not sure what it's called. Yeah. But it's a Soma app. and then so there's breath holding, there's, shortening the breath and breathing quicker, but not much hyperventilation or anything like that. It's nothing too crazy. I was a bit nervous about that, but it's, yeah, it's, it's quite a cool, thing to try anyway. So

Kelsey (47:33.582)
Okay, okay, cool. Okay.

Kelsey (47:52.878)
How do you spell the app? S-O-M-A?

Louise (47:55.324)
S-O-M-A, yeah, so my app. It's he's from the States. Yeah, yeah, I highly recommend it. I've really, really enjoyed it and found it really helpful. And then the second one is just becoming tuning into my inner voice and really getting to learn how I can listen to that. And sometimes it might be asking my question, that question around

Kelsey (47:57.518)
Okay, just for people if they want to check it out.

Louise (48:23.542)
What can I learn from this? This current situation that I'm in right now that might be really hard and really challenging. What can I take away? And so they're the two that I fall back on a lot in recent times. Yeah.

Kelsey (48:36.396)
So yeah, gosh, no, I love it and very much so appreciate you sharing. Yeah, thank you for coming on. Thank you for letting me pick your brain and ask professional and personal questions, all the things. It's been really great having you. You did say that you had something you wanted to share with the audience. And I know we're gonna be sharing your information and this info in the show notes, but do you wanna tell us a little bit about what you have to share?

Louise (49:04.32)
Yeah, so I've got a practical guide that I just love and it's really starting to help people who are second-guessing themselves, they've got a really busy mind, they feel like they're living a life that may not be aligned or to society's expectations and it's a practical guide on how you can start listening to that inner voice, how you can start to strengthen it and how you can start to get it to be loud so that you can hear it and so it's really practical and

It's a great way to start to learn to hear your inner voice.

Kelsey (49:39.31)
Well, it kind of goes perfectly with this episode. So I'm so glad that you have that resource to share. So yeah, we're going to wrap up here. Thank you again so much for coming on, Luis. It's been a pleasure.

Louise (49:52.674)
Thank you so much, Kelsey. It's been really cool to chat.

Kelsey (49:57.014)
Yeah, awesome. All right, guys. Until next time, we'll see you then.