TINAH Talks | Mental Health and Wellbeing Podcast

44. Chronic Illness & Mental Health: The Connection Explained

• TINAH • Season 2 • Episode 44

Share episode

This week we have Emma Davies on TINAH Talks to talk about the complex relationship between chronic pain and mental health.

Emma is a passionate advocate for holistic healing, gut health, and mental well-being. After years of battling Crohn’s disease, navigating pharmaceutical treatments, and enduring relentless flare-ups, Emma took control of her health through mindset shifts, natural remedies, nutritional therapy, and mindful living - a journey she figured out completely on her own, now, she’s dedicated to empowering others to take charge of their health, proving that healing is possible when we support the body with the right tools.

Emma opens up about her personal journey with Crohn's disease, shedding light on how chronic illness can lead to anxiety and depression, discussing the importance of self-advocacy in healthcare, and the transformative lifestyle changes that have enhanced her physical and mental well-being. From medication and dietary shifts to holistic practices like yoga and breath work, Emma shares the strategies that have significantly improved her health and happiness.

Tune in to hear Emma’s incredible story and gain insights into the psychological effects of chronic illness, self-advocacy, and holistic healing. 💛

Connect with Emma:

📩 Conscious Path Substack

📸 Instagram

💼 LinkedIn

#ChronicPainDepression #ChronicPain #CBTforChronicPain #MentalHealth #DepressionAndPhysicalPain #ChronicIllnessBurnout #CrohnsDisease #Anxiety #LifestyleChanges #HolisticHealth #SelfAdvocacy #GutHealth #Wellness #Spirituality #StressManagement #Mindset #HealingJourney #SelfCare #BreathWork #Yoga

About The TINAH Talks Podcast: TINAH (Time Is Not a Healer) is your go-to mental well-being marketplace and community! In this podcast, you can expect empowering conversations to support you in your mental health healing journey.

We are on a mission to: ✨ EMPOWER you to prioritize and take control of your mental health ✨ EDUCATE you on mental health and wellbeing practices ✨ ELIMINATE stigma around mental health

Free Mental Health Resources: Subscribe to get your FREE mental health toolkit here :

Find out your wellness healing style in our quiz here:

🔗 Stay Connected: 📸 Follow us on Instagram:

🎥 Follow us on TikTok:

🛒 Shop The TINAH Mental Health Marketplace:

💬 Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and share for more empowering discussions on mental health and self-care!

Healing isn't about eliminating all pain, but about finding the ways to live fully despite it. So I hope that this episode resonated with you. Please let us know in the comments and if there is anything that we can support you with on moving forward or more topics in this realm, we'd be happy to talk about it. So, all right, guys, thank you and until next time.

Kelsey (44:11.821) Right, think yeah, there's something to be said for the multidisciplinary approach, right? Like, have a little bit of therapy, have a little bit of holistic health, maybe some medical care over here, right? Like, some of those somatic, know, somatic practices and spirituality, you gotta test and try and find what works for you. So awesome, so to end this, I just wanna say guys, we recognize your pain is real, your experience is valid.

Emma Davies (44:00.756) no, thank you. I've loved it so much. And just for everyone to remember, unique journeys, like everyone, just what I've done is not going to work for them. and small steps.

It is all a journey and you are where you are, do the best with what you can and what you have and you have the power to change your mind and your belief and to take different actions to create a different life for yourself. your story has really shown that and I just want to say thank you for coming on.

Kelsey (43:11.391) Yeah, well, I mean, unfortunately, we do have to wrap up because we want to keep it a little bit, you know, on time for people and not, you know, talk their ears off. but I want I just want to say thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story and sharing what has worked for you. And I know you're still using all these techniques and continuing to work on things. And and I think, yeah, just to remind people, this is a journey, what you do with your mental health, with chronic pain, all of that quitting alcohol.

Emma Davies (43:04.899) Yeah, for sure. Yeah, that's why it's been so easy to have this conversation, so many similarities.

both lived in Australia. We both, I think, traveled a little in Southeast Asia potentially. We've lived and traveled in Latin America. We both come from mental health backgrounds. We've had our own issues with chronic pain and things like that, like very, very similar journeys. And something brought us together to have this conversation.

Again, like you, I can't define what it is, but it is, we want to call it mother nature. think that, I think that's great. I, know, the concept that, matter cannot be created nor destroyed. And so there's energy all around us and it's, you know, we're at the end of this episode, but like you and I found each other through LinkedIn. Like my business partner found you on LinkedIn. And then she told me to, you know, get in contact with you for the podcast. And we have had a very similar life. We.

Kelsey (41:55.864) I myself, I was raised Catholic. I've had a lot of dark periods in my life. I personally don't believe in organized religion anymore, like the actual infrastructure and how it's been used in modern day, but you believe in God, you go girl, you believe in whatever, that's great. I do believe in something like a greater, you know.

Emma Davies (41:52.215) Mm-hmm.

you aren't alone and that there is something, someone bigger out there watching out for you or at least, you know, the energy is all intertwined in some way. I think that's why AA works really well, right? Because it's very religious and God-based and it gives you something to put your focus on and your belief in other than yourself. If you have really struggled to show up for yourself, what can you put that power in elsewhere?

Kelsey (40:56.331) Yeah, no, mean, that makes a lot of sense. think there's a lot of unknowns in our world, right? And the fact that no one's coming to save us and that we have a very short period of time on this earth is fricking terrifying. And so it makes sense that it, to see how things unfold in life or moments that have come up in your deepest need, know, things like that is that idea of that divine timing to feel comfort in knowing that maybe

Kelsey (40:48.365) Yeah.

and you then find other people that are into spirituality, you have so much that you can connect on with it and talk about it. it's mostly, I feel people that have had a period in their life that has been quite dark and they've needed to find something for a bit of a purpose and just to help them. And yeah, I've just, yeah, it's helped me so much.

it's all happening how it's supposed to be happening. And there's so many elements into it that I love looking into. And then there's something else has popped up and I'm like, my goodness, I need to research what's this about and look into this. But yeah, it's amazing. I feel like I could go off on a whole tangent about spirituality that I probably shouldn't because I got into the end of it. But I think people just finding whether that's a religion of God, whatever it is that you believe in and just that sense of community as well. feel like when

Emma Davies (39:36.926) Yeah, think with spirituality, it's having just a trust in even when things are not going right, so per se, as how you thought it was going to go, that it's meant to be happening, there's divine timing and there is a higher self. So I'm not really sure what I believe in, God, universe, something higher than me. And it just really, I think just grounds you and you just trust that.

Kelsey (39:16.653) I know we're kind of coming up to the end of episode, but I want to touch real quickly on the last one that you said, which was spirituality. And I know for a lot of people, this can mean different things. So what does it mean for you that it's really helped you in terms of managing your mental health alongside, know, the Crohn's issues?

Thank you.

Emma Davies (39:10.583) Thank

feels good for you and your body and not feeling like you have to depend on something, that's the golden, the golden egg, the golden ticket, know, Charlie's Chocolate Factory, whatever that's called, you know?

necessarily have a craving for alcohol or anything like that, but man, I love a good glass of wine or I love good tequila or I like good whiskey, but I don't need to pound it and get smashed or I can have it with dinner. even then, like I haven't had alcohol in like three weeks now, I think. Like I just haven't had it and it is what it is, right? Like it's fine, but I think getting yourself to that mindset level of what

trying to figure themselves out, but anxious about it and wanting to fit in and then they lean into alcohol and then that just becomes the norm throughout the rest of their life. So good on you, because I think that's amazing. And I've heard very similar stories from people who have stopped drinking altogether. for my example, like me.

Kelsey (37:42.796) Yeah, no, I love that. I think, good on you, man. I know, I'm being a solo female traveler and like the anxiety, that social anxiety to put yourself out there and interact with people and without the aid of alcohol is like a huge feat. And even doing that, not traveling, like, you know, growing up as a teenager. And I think that's the problem is that teens lean into it so hard because they're still not confident. They still haven't developed a self identity. And so they're like,

Emma Davies (37:24.769) But a lot of my friends still drink, so I'm still around alcohol a lot. But I just, for me, there's no benefits. And I'm a big advocate for people to stop or reduce just because I think it will help everyone. But at the same time, obviously, everyone has their own choices in what they want to do.

Kelsey (37:19.756) Yeah.

really good. I don't think I need it. Get to six months. I went through festival season without it and I just started to see so many positives in terms of how I felt, the people I was meeting, the connections I was having. It was just like pure solid connections and I was remembering everything and now it's as if alcohol has never been a part of my life. Like on a computer you've like put it in the bin and it's gone forever. I'm not tempted in any way. I see it for myself as poison.

Emma Davies (36:29.219) having the odd drink here and there, never really getting sort of black out drunk anymore. But then as my confidence and everything built with everything that I've been doing, I then just didn't need alcohol and it just doesn't agree with me. And so I did dry January two years ago, again, not meaning to give up alcohol properly. And then it was like, we were talking about how long it lasts. I got to three months and I was like, okay. I'm starting to feel...

Kelsey (36:28.94) Right.

Kelsey (36:23.469) 100%.

Kelsey (36:10.604) Yeah.

Kelsey (36:03.946) Yeah.

Emma Davies (35:59.286) What? Like you're not meeting me though, because you're not meeting party drunk Emma. And, but when she said that I was like, okay. Actually just me is okay. And then I would say without doing the meditations and the self work and the affirmations and everything that I've done alongside giving up alcohol, I'd probably have gone back. So I did when I went back, when I went back to the UK, I started drinking, but a lot more consciously, just

Kelsey (35:55.564) Yeah.

Emma Davies (35:47.938) But I remember a girl in Byron Bay actually. And so this girl, have no idea how much she's kind of had such like an input in my mind telling me that I was a really cool girl. And at the time I thought...

Kelsey (35:43.725) Right.

Kelsey (35:35.212) Yeah.

for me was it was so hard and I just felt every time I was meeting people I was explaining to them like no I do usually drink I'm not boring I promise I'm usually a big partier and I do this and I just felt that everyone was meeting wasn't meeting me when actually they were meeting full-face me but I obviously wasn't ready to accept exactly me as me

Emma Davies (34:53.621) That's normal in the UK. And for all, especially like my uni experience, I was getting black out drunk every single weekend. And I thought that was normal. And so this is where it also relates to with the mental health. When I look back on that now, I'm like, what was I escaping? What was I unhappy about? By the time? No idea. I just thought it was the norm. And I want to escape my reality for whatever reason that is. And then, so when I gave up drinking in Australia, this

Kelsey (34:49.01) yeah.

Kelsey (34:38.561) It's okay.

Emma Davies (34:34.121) Yeah, for sure. first of all, I'm so sorry for hearing your story, but it's amazing your your attitude towards alcohol now. But for me, I obviously been from the UK, it's a big alcohol culture. And it's just very normalized, you get absolutely drunk out your mind. And that's

Right? I know from a lot of people, it's hard to stop drinking alcohol, especially with the way that our society really supports it.

But I know that that is not often the case for most people. And so like for me, I personally don't have the desire of like, need to not drink at all, but I do recognize when I'm not drinking, I feel way better, way different. It affects me differently. So, you know, it's, kind of have those moments, but I don't ever teeter too far in the other direction just because of my, my history. so I'm curious to hear like, how was that for you? And then with the

Kelsey (33:31.672) partial end stage liver failure and cancer, but like couldn't heal from the cancer because of her liver. So both my parents have passed from this. I have had, my whole life has been like very diligent of my behavior and interaction with alcohol because I didn't want to fall into the trap of what my parents fell into. So for me, I'm a freak of nature with self-discipline around alcohol. I'm someone who can have one or two drinks and I'm good or

Emma Davies (33:20.203) Wow.

Kelsey (33:03.263) It's as simple as that, I think. I mean, I it's a simple concept. It's hard to implement, but like there are resources there, guys, like CBT, DBT, all those things. Okay, yeah, so let's talk about the alcohol. I'm curious about, you know, your journey with that. I'm just gonna give a little background for just so you know where I come from. So I'm a product of two parents that struggled with alcoholism. One died from end stage liver failure. The other also...

Emma Davies (33:02.101) Mm-hmm. 100%.

Kelsey (32:32.319) You, you know, we're born into this world kind of alone and then we die in this world alone and then we're kind of in this world alone. We have people in our community that can support us, but at the end of the day, like the life you live and how you handle and manage yourself, it's all up to ourselves. And so if you want to do something different, it's up to you to do something different, to feel better, whatever. And to get there, to take the action to do it, it starts with what you tell yourself and what you believe is possible.

Emma Davies (32:29.847) Mm-hmm.

Emma Davies (32:19.539) It's all in sweet.

Kelsey (32:13.877) Yeah, and what helps you actually implement new habits? The mindset work. That like, it's all in our links, right? Like, no, this is like a very dark perspective, but no one's coming to save you. No one's going to come and help you.

Kelsey (32:06.636) Right.

Emma Davies (31:59.99) I was going to say I completely missed out stress reduction, but all of the habits are the stress reduction. But yeah, that is also absolutely pinnacle for I think, even if you're not ill, just focus on your stress reduction.

This can be done for dealing with your mental health, with trauma, with chronic pain, all of that. I do want to go, I want to go back and I want to touch a little bit on the, because we, I know we're talking about the mindset and we've kind of touched on it. Is there anything else you want to add before we touch on the other two?

Kelsey (31:14.133) see this as a learning lesson and now I've got to tackle something that I've never done before and now I have to learn how to do it. There's a lot of mindset that comes with that. And so I write down what is it that I'm scared about? What am I worrying about? And how do I want to actually think about it? And then I rewrite those thoughts every day. I got a whole book right here of pages just rewritten and written like over and over again. And let me tell you, that is how I've created a successful business. Like I went from, I created a business on nothing. So.

Emma Davies (30:50.847) Mm-hmm

and what you focus on and right, where focus goes, energy flows, right? That's that kind of saying. So I don't think it's gooey at all. think, right, that's why things like cognitive behavioral practices are really important. For example, in my business, when I'm struggling with something, like I run my own business, know, being an entrepreneur is hard. A lot of it is mindset reframing. Like, okay, I failed at something. I've got a...

You can see over a period of like it's a week or two how the water changes the water that has bad things said it actually turns black the one that has good things said to it is it stays like it's a little viscousy but like it's it's clear and then the one that is neutral it gets a little gray because it's just been like forgotten about it's not as black as the negative one so like like it gets kind of moldy and stuff words thoughts carry weight

are thinking. And there's also another study, I'm sure you've heard it, I can't remember who did this, but it's like with the, is it with water? I think they do it with water, where there's like three, four glasses of water. They have your water that nothing interacts with it, nothing happens. Then there's water where you say bad things to it every day. And there's water that you say awesome things to it every day. And then so maybe it's just the three.

like, you know, positive or supportive, but something that's going to help you move forward instead of being stuck on that negative thought. Because if all you're thinking about is the bad, that's all you're going to see. And that has to do with our reticular activating system, right? It's that whole theory that when, you know, you're thinking about yellow, yellow cars, now all you can see are yellow cars because you're thinking about it. And it's what our reticular activating system is consciously filtering into our

Kelsey (28:51.021) 100%, I think thoughts, and this is gonna sound very woo-woo-y, thoughts carry energy, right? This is the core basis of cognitive behavioral therapy, right? Being able to take a thought that you have that's not so helpful, not so supportive, acknowledging it, acknowledging the uncomfortable feelings that come with it, but then challenging it and seeing if there's an alternative way or perspective of looking at it and then reframing it to be slightly more.

Kelsey (28:36.801) Yeah.

Emma Davies (28:34.495) it has happened. I don't know, I understand it being hard to believe for people who have never worked on that area. But once you get into it and you trust it and you see the results, I think it's just so powerful.

Yeah.

Kelsey (28:08.075) Yeah.

Emma Davies (28:05.653) That's what it was like with my Crohn's and I was like, have a thought. it's not affecting me. And it just made me think that actually focus on the problem when it's a problem. And now I feel that, I don't know, I think our minds are so powerful. And I think that's something that over time, through meditation, journaling, when you begin to trust your mind a lot more, you trust the power of it. And I truly believe in my mind, I'm healthy and

Kelsey (27:55.213) Mm-hmm.

Emma Davies (27:46.104) Sorry, this is taking over my whole life. But when she said it, I was like, wow, like all I'm focusing on is my Crohn's. And when she said it, was then like when you break up with a boyfriend and you can't stop thinking about them. And then you have 10 minutes and you're like, oh, I've not thought about my ex for 10 minutes.

Kelsey (27:44.253) Excuse me?

having a mindset where you trust your mind is just pinnacle for everything and I feel so when I was in Australia actually this woman I was speaking to in a hostel kitchen I was talking to about my crones and she said to me why don't you just stop focusing on it and I was like sorry like

Emma Davies (27:02.791) spirituality, I would say for me has been a big input. And that's something that I've just come across on my journey. But I feel having some belief in something higher than myself, and just that trust has helped me so much. And then mindset in general. So I feel

Kelsey (27:01.975) Yeah.

Kelsey (26:49.367) short.

Emma Davies (26:46.143) I'd say removing alcohol, definitely. if people can just try decreasing, even if you don't remove it, but I would honestly say that is the best thing I've ever done in my whole entire life for my gut, for my mind, for everything.

Kelsey (26:45.591) Yeah.

Kelsey (26:31.597) Okay, I'll give you three. You have to rank them though. What's what?

Emma Davies (26:29.099) Can I have three? Okay, that's hard. Well, if I go back to the three things that have, I would say, are pinnacle for my healing journey, and then you can maybe talk a little bit more of steps that to do with it.

Kelsey (26:05.237) Yeah. What would you say, I know you can't pinpoint which one like did it that changed it all for you. If you had to pick, I'll give you two instead of one because sometimes it's hard to pick. What's your two favorite things that you lean on the most that you know really help with managing your mental health in regard, which comes from also managing your Crohn's?

Emma Davies (26:02.867) Yeah, for sure.

I don't feel like I have time to do the things that I need to, to feel good, which would be a yoga session, going for a walk, moving your body, doing some breath work, sitting down and doing a journal session to like work through some of the negative thoughts or experiences that we're currently having in our life, right? And then it's like, I'll do that tomorrow. And then that same cycle starts over again, right?

But like having that consistency and routine, which things like drinking alcohol throws off regularly. And then like, right, it's all interconnected. It all kind of snowballs into one another, right? I have a night, couple nights maybe where I have a couple drinks or I drink really heavily that throws off my sleep. I don't get sound sleep or I'm waking up later than I typically would. Now I have to go back to work and I'm back like waking up early, but now I'm exhausted.

No, that makes a lot of sense. I think even with sleep, it's more so about having a consistency in a routine. And you mentioned your morning routine changing, and it's like where you're consistently waking up around the same time. You're consistently going to bed around the same time. You're getting the amount of sleep that your body needs. Some people's magic sleep number is nine hours versus like eight or seven and a half.

Kelsey (24:43.094) Yeah.

Kelsey (24:32.471) you.

Emma Davies (24:25.975) a light yoga if I feel that I'm not very tired and I need to go to sleep. So for me personally, I haven't struggled too much with that. So I didn't have to make much changes. Could also be because a lot of my life I've been very fatigued. So I found it easy to go to sleep. I don't know.

Kelsey (24:10.38) Yeah.

Emma Davies (23:56.484) I'm not particular with sleep. I've never struggled to sleep with, struggled to go to sleep very much, but this is actually, I started in university putting my phone on the other side of the room on charge. And that was before I was into my health. So I don't know what made me do that. And that is something that I've stuck with. And I would say that I don't rarely ever to struggle to sleep. Another thing I do is like breath work before I go to sleep or

heard a lot about stress management. Did you make any changes with like sleep and things like that?

you know, feel like you're on the other side and you're actually thriving. And so I just kind of wanted to touch on that because that's a lot of what you described and I wanted to give people kind of that picture. But to kind of scale it back into actual practical methods, a couple of things that I heard you say was, so diet changes and guys, when we say diet, we're not talking about cutting calories or anything like that. We're talking about like nutrition based approaches. That's helpful for you.

Kelsey (22:58.701) takes about 90 days for it to become a full-on habit. And then it takes past 90 days, let's just say, into 120 and beyond, if you continue and you're consistent with it, it becomes a part of your lifestyle. And that's a long period to have to hustle your butt to feel better or to...

describe things with clients when I'm working on behavioral changes is, I know there's like all sorts of timelines about forming habits and things, but I say it takes about 30 days to gain awareness of what you're doing and that what you're doing is not working or it's not helping you. It takes about 60 days to start sort of implementing a new behavior.

the other side, you see the dawn, you see the light, that clarity that you said, right? Like you could have a week of no drinking, but a week of no drinking to three months of no drinking, you are going to have very different perceptions. You're going to see things in a completely different light. And I think people struggle to get to that point to even to see like how is it going to benefit them or how does it actually feel? And the way that I tend to

We want to have immediate results for almost everything and that and social media doesn't help because it makes it look like that that's possible when that's not the reality of the situation. And I think that we struggle in general to form new habits. And so if you don't allow yourself to change a behavior slightly or put something new into practice and give it the time to actually like start working where you then see

But when it starts to become a full on lifestyle, that's where you step into that thriving aspect. And I think what's hard in this world is, especially now with the technology and everything that we have accessible to us, we are in an instant gratification society where it's like, I want something, I can get it now, I want it, I want it now, I'm struggling with something, give me a pill, make it go away.

Kelsey (20:41.165) The irony is that the things that you do to go from struggling, surviving to square one and square one to thriving are actually very similar behaviors and habits and things that you have to implement. I think the difference is that it's where you're doing it as prescriptive when you're trying to get out of that hole, like, okay, I'm going to stop eating food. I'm going to stop, not food, I'm going stop eating certain food. I'm going to implement this stress management technique for a while and you do it for a little bit.

Emma Davies (20:39.19) Mm-hmm.

We're surviving, we are struggling. We know we're not doing all right. And then on the right hand side, we're thriving. Things feel great. We feel like we're living our two authentic selves. We're feeling fulfilled in everything that we're doing. But in the middle is square one. And that's my nose right now. like, right? Just because you're not struggling and you're not surviving, that does not necessarily mean you are thriving. And everything is on a spectrum.

Kelsey (19:49.71) I love that and I'm so happy to hear that for you. think there's a couple of different things, concepts that I wanna touch on with everything that you just said. So this last one that you said, you're like, you didn't even realize that you weren't happy, right? And I think what people don't understand is that mental health is on a fluctuating spectrum. And for those who, I've said this, I think maybe in the last episode, whoever I was talking to and I say it all the time, right? So on the left-hand side we have.

Emma Davies (19:36.033) connected me to what I would say is my authentic self and has just made me so much healthier and happier, which I didn't even realize I wasn't so much before. So yeah, it's been a good journey. Yeah.

Kelsey (19:19.169) percent.

really increased my self-esteem and my confidence and I really feel it's all interlinked. It's like every single part of it. It's like, so if you said like what was the main thing that has helped your Crohn's, it's like I can't pick one. It's like a bit of this, a bit of this and they've all worked together and has completely not only changed my life to the point that I'm not on medication anymore but has

Emma Davies (18:44.701) I then really stuck with this morning routine and I was doing it every single day. And I just feel as I had sort of given up alcohol, was bringing it back in a little bit when I come back to the UK and now it's completely gone from my life, but that's been a journey in itself. But doing all the holistic practices, quiet in my mind, relaxing my gut, the stress reduction has also

Kelsey (18:32.737) Yeah, great book. Yeah.

Kelsey (18:15.234) Yeah.

Emma Davies (18:14.871) Um, and then when I come back home, um, so I came home just before COVID and I came home because my symptoms weren't completely leaving and I was just too tired of looking after myself on the other side of the world. Um, and then I read a book called Miracle Morning. I'm not sure if you've heard of it. Yeah. So that's such a good book for getting you into a morning routine. And because I read this just before COVID and I'd already started implementing some things anyway.

Kelsey (18:06.349) Mm-hmm.

Emma Davies (17:45.56) So I was just like, okay, I'll just try it. I don't really know what this is. Probably wasn't even doing it properly, but I was giving it a go. And I cannot express how all of that has completely changed my life. And I just having the break from alcohol, I remember this like clarity that clicked in my head that I was like, whoa, what is this? Like just clearness that I feel. then implementing all the other sort of holistic practices that I didn't even know were holistic practices at the time.

Kelsey (17:26.987) Right.

Emma Davies (17:16.971) disrupt my symptoms. And this was all supposed to be short term as well. That I was just like, I'm going to give it up till my symptoms get better and then it all comes back. And then at the same time, I started to do meditation, yoga, journaling, but at the same time, I didn't know the benefits of these at the time. it was, cause this was about six years ago, it wasn't when all this craze is everywhere and everyone knows about it all.

Kelsey (17:09.474) Yeah.

Kelsey (17:00.557) hard.

Kelsey (16:56.578) Yeah.

I just randomly overnight decided to give up alcohol, which at the time I felt was a huge part of my identity. especially while solo traveling, giving up alcohol, was, that was hard. And that was, yeah, it was, I'm so happy for it now, but at the time it was very difficult. I also gave up meat, dairy, sweets. Anything that I just felt was going to...

Emma Davies (16:26.911) Wow, so I had just a huge, huge, huge lifestyle change pretty much overnight. I, but to be honest, everything that I did, I didn't know what benefits it was going to have in an essence. So just because I was absolutely sick of my symptoms, I couldn't do anything and

So yeah, so okay, so you were really struggling with anxiety. What changed? What did you do to kind of get out of the spiral that you were stuck in?

I'm fucking depressed. Like I'm struggling even when I'm not. So it would be really interesting for them, for anyone to do research on how does like Crohn's affect serotonin versus something like IBS or versus like food intolerances or celiac, right? I'd be really curious to see that. I know you and I are not professionals. We can't dive into that today, but if anyone knows, please let us know in the comments.

uh, had dated and we were just starting to kind of see each other. It probably wasn't the best time for me to be dating, but like he, it didn't start off as a date. Like he was in town, he was a fellow traveler and then we were, invited me to go to a close city and I remember I went with him and we were at, we were at dinner at a meal and I just started crying and I was like, you're being so nice to me. And like, that's how I knew I was like, oh, I'm

It was really messing up my stomach. And I've had major depressive episodes before and I've gone on medication in the past for it. And like, I just remember thinking, was like, I'm doing all the things that I know, even as a psych professional, right? And so for those who don't know, I worked in the psych field for a long time. I was a behavioral specialist. So I know the skills. I've also like implemented them for myself and for myself and I'm doing them. And my mood just like crashed. And I remember there was a guy that I

Kelsey (14:23.241) Yeah, it's very interesting because so I too have had to do a lot of like cognitive reframing and like learning the tools to like help manage difficult emotions, difficult situations, all of those things. When I became gluten and dairy intolerant though, right? Like I was doing all the healthy lifestyle things. I was doing yoga, I was doing breath work, I was mindful about my meals and things like that. However, anytime I was eating certain things, not knowing gluten and dairy were making me sick.

Emma Davies (14:19.465) I would imagine I would have really easily fallen into a depression.

Kelsey (14:09.782) Yeah.

Kelsey (13:55.629) You

Emma Davies (13:53.142) I wouldn't say I've definitely got low mood before. I wouldn't say I've been in a deep depression. I'm quite good at grabbing those thoughts I would say beforehand, but only because I've had to really work on my mind for everything that's happened with my Crohn's. Whereas if I hadn't done the endless self work and the work that I've done, which my Crohn's has made me do.

Kelsey (13:46.497) Yeah, did you ever start to experience, have you ever had any experience with depressive symptoms or anything like that?

Emma Davies (13:21.579) How am I getting out of this loop? Like this is waking me up and I'm instantly having to run to the toilet. But I was like, am I creating this or is my gut telling me? And it was, yeah. And just around a lot of things, feel like while you're, especially while you're traveling, people thinking that I'm boring, that I can't do anything and I'm just lay around, but I had no energy to do anything else other than lay around. And yeah, it does, it gets a lot.

Kelsey (13:05.975) Yeah.

Emma Davies (12:51.893) Yeah, for sure. I'd say the main one is the anxiousness. think anyone with Crohn's and maybe even IBS symptoms, depending on how bad you have it, the first thought walking into anywhere, where's the toilet? Like instantly, and that's on your mind constantly. And I remember getting stuck in a bit of a loop when I was away of soon as I would wake up, my first thought would be, do I need the toilet? And I feel like by thinking that I'm sending that to my gut. And I really struggled to think.

Sometimes some people get even further, they get like kind of paranoia around their health, like things like that. So I'd be curious to know what started happening with your mental health from dealing with all this with Crohn's.

And then, and especially for you with gut issues or anything to do that will affect your sleep, your gut, that's where you're start to see mental health deteriorate. So I think it brings us to this point. I'd love to know, when did you start to see, like what was happening with your mental health? Did you become really anxious? Were you experiencing depressive episodes or like low mood symptoms or?

Kelsey (11:46.402) That's the solution. They typically chuck meds at you to deal with the symptoms but not the root cause. And then you feel like you're in this endless loop and cycle of, I'm having symptoms, let me take some meds, but the meds don't always make you feel good. And it comes with other aspects, right? Embarrassment and shame and like, I have to remember. And it kind of takes over your life.

And then finally I went to the hospital and they're like, oh yeah, like you, I think this is the official diagnosis. Like you have TMJ, you need to see a specialist. He's not here, here's more Vicodin and go on your way. And I had my exams, I rocked up to some of my exams so high from, because I was in so much pain, I didn't want to take it. I didn't take it from like my first two exams. And I was in so much pain, I did not do good on my chem exam. But like.

but it's just a little bit heartbreaking. And there was something else that you said that I'm blinking on now, but it sounds like, well, you said like you've missed your exams. One time my jaw locked completely shut and I couldn't get like a fork full of food in my mouth. So I was like doing the liquids, but this was leading up into my exams.

Something else that's like in a similar area she goes but we're gonna be doing cranial sacral work because that's what you need and I was like Thank you so much like It's wild the hoops that you have to jump through to to advocate for yourself and to get the right Resources and support and I had to do digging with like finding you know getting a night guard for the grinding and for this and that and I know you're Experiencing issues with TMJ right now. And so this is a very similar journey for you

to get a specialty doctor or someone to evaluate you, I had a very similar experience. Like they just wanted to give me Vicodin and like send me home. And I finally pushed to get into physical therapy and the physical therapist, I always remember this. She knew exactly what the issue was, but she was like, for me to say that I'm gonna do craniosacral work on you, it's not gonna be covered by your insurance. So we're gonna, so I'm gonna tell them I'm focusing on.

Kelsey (09:35.918) chronic pain in your jaw because your jaw can either lock shut or lock open and what's happening is like that joint, there's a disc in there that gets stuck out or stuck in and it can cause ringing in the ears, chronic headaches, fatigue, all these things. It's very common around for young women. And so a lot of your journey like really resonated because you you had to like advocate for yourself really hard to get.

Emma Davies (09:10.871) Mm-hmm.

Kelsey (09:09.431) Yeah, well before we dive into to that and everything, first and foremost, thank you for sharing that story. Love that the comment, poo is taboo because you're right, just like mental health is, so is poo. You know, a lot of your story resonates with me. I had chronic pain, but mine was from TMJ. And for those who don't know what TMJ is, always like Temporal Mandibular Jaw Disorder, I'm pretty sure is what it is. And so it's where you have

Kelsey (08:48.397) Yeah.

Emma Davies (08:39.051) This is a lot for your mental health, whereas at uni and with traveling, it's stopping my exams, it's stopping me from traveling. I'm trying to meet people when really my whole body is just completely shutting down. So within this period, I made a lot of life changes, which I don't know if we should speak about this now or speak about a bit later. But this was like a pinnacle turning point in my life for everything that I changed.

Kelsey (08:33.677) I imagine.

Kelsey (08:27.915) Wow.

Kelsey (08:15.405) Peace.

So I counted at this point that I was on 14 meds a day, like different types of medication. One of them was this thing that like this plastic thing that was shaped a bit like a gun that you put up your bum and it was like a steroid that you shot there. So again, this was very humbling experience. Luckily I met some surgeons that I could kind of laugh along with, but really...

Emma Davies (07:41.396) and then I flew home for three weeks. I'm not sure what I thought I was healing in three weeks, but I gave myself three weeks to get home and go back to Australia because I was just stubborn and I refuse to let this ruin my time. and also you only got one visa for Australia at that point. they've changed it now, but so I went to see my consultant, in the UK, he gave me a bag full of meds and then I flew back.

Kelsey (07:29.932) Yeah.

Kelsey (07:23.607) Right.

Kelsey (07:18.177) Yeah.

Emma Davies (07:13.335) I was fatigued while I was supposed to be traveling Australia. And also it's just a bit embarrassing because I was in a hostel as a girl, solo traveling, obviously going through all these issues, which luckily everyone you meet is lovely and they understand, but it was still very embarrassing for me. So in this period, I had a flight booked to Vietnam. The consultant in Australia said, no way, you're not going to Vietnam.

Kelsey (07:06.231) Yeah.

Kelsey (07:01.272) my God.

Emma Davies (06:47.415) And I was flaring up really, really bad over there. And I think I didn't create a stall for maybe about three months. The only thing that I had was kind of mucus and blood. Yeah, you still had the urgency. So you were rushing to the toilet still, sometimes making it, sometimes not. And it was just mucus, blood. You had stomach pain.

Yeah.

Kelsey (06:42.53) Yeah.

Emma Davies (06:17.845) And then it got to when I was in university, I was in and out of hospital, changing meds, I was originally on the weaker meds, going on some stronger meds. I couldn't sit my final uni exams in the exam period that I was supposed to because I was actually in hospital because of my Crohn's. Even at this point, it was affecting me, but not enough for me to make some serious changes. And then when it got really bad was when I was in Australia.

Kelsey (06:15.693) great.

Emma Davies (05:50.282) I too much into it. just thought, okay, I'm on meds. I've got this thing that I don't really know anything about and got on with my life. But I didn't make any changes to my life or my lifestyle or anything like that. More because I felt there was no education around doing that. I was told there was nothing I could do. And the professor specifically told me that, that just take these meds and that's, it will make you better. You don't need to make any other changes.

Kelsey (05:21.709) Mm-hmm.

Emma Davies (05:21.399) And the professor literally felt my stomach and was instantly like we need to do a colonoscopy, which is the camera going up for anyone who doesn't know that. And within two weeks, I had my colonoscopy. I was diagnosed with Crohn's disease and I was given prescription meds. So in this moment, the professor said to me that you're going to be on meds for the rest of your life. To be honest, at the time, I just accepted it. I didn't really.

Kelsey (05:12.482) Right.

Emma Davies (04:51.765) When I went to the doctors and mentioned it to her, she actually just said to me that I just had a cut in my bum. So she gave me some cream to go home with. And I remember going home and saying like, mom, I'm not using this. Like, I know this is more serious than using a cream for a cut in my bum. With a bit of fighting, we got a referral and was able to go privately to get it sorted. Like, luckily I had the means to do that.

Kelsey (04:38.048) Yeah.

Kelsey (04:26.642) gosh.

I remember going to the toilet and there was just a pool of blood. And yeah, at 18, to be honest, I was quite embarrassed. I didn't know who I was supposed to tell about this. I felt like obviously there's this whole like who is taboo and we don't talk about it. And so I, yeah, I just, hadn't really told anyone. And I remember going to the doctor's with my mum over something else. And I mentioned to her, like, there's blood when I go to the toilet, which obviously caused a panic.

Emma Davies (04:08.055) Okay, yeah, there's a lot to cover with this. This story has, this health journey has been a sort of major impact in my life. So it started when I was 18 and

And then I fell into a major depressive episode. So it sounds like those symptoms are very, very similar to kind of Crohn's. Crohn's sounds a little bit more intense. But yeah, so how, when did you realize you had Crohn's? And then how did that kind of like kick in? And then where did your mental health start to deteriorate from that?

I was having very similar things. There was like bloating and diarrhea and fatigue. And for those who don't know, 90 % of our serotonin is produced in our gut. And so when you're having chronic gut issues, your mood and everything starts to plummet. so back at that time, you could see I had dark circles under my eyes. I just looked like emaciated because I was having diarrhea all the time. Sorry, guys, too much information.

Kelsey (02:50.967) Yeah, we actually didn't get a chance to talk about this before we hopped on this episode, but late in life, right? So we talked about travels after living in, when I was living in Asia. So I was away out of the US for several years and I was living in Asia. So my diet changed and I became intolerant to gluten and dairy. But before I realized that I became intolerant to those things.

So and especially at the gut. So it thinks that some of your cells are foreign cells and that's when your gut then becomes inflamed and the symptoms that come with it again different for everyone but often fatigue is a major one with it sort of diarrhea, blood in the stool, mucus, throwing up, dizziness and probably many more that everyone with Crohn's suffer with.

Emma Davies (01:56.184) Yeah, for sure. So the main journey that I've had in my health is because of Crohn's disease. So I was diagnosed with Crohn's disease when I was 18 years old. And for those that don't know, Crohn's disease is a disease that affects your digestive tract. So for everyone who has Crohn's disease, they'll have a very different story and a very different illness. But it's an autoimmune disease. So they say it's incurable and it's basically your body attacking itself.

experience and journey with mental health issues.

can be seen and not seen at the same time, but what people don't realize is how much the two are interlinked and how if you're struggling with something for such a long period of time and it's physically affecting you, that can really start to deteriorate our mental health. So I would love to, first off, thank you for letting me dig into your personal life on this podcast. Would you mind telling us what some of the chronic health issues you were struggling with that really affected your?

Kelsey (01:00.846) Amazing. Well, thank you so much for coming on. As you know, I know you've listened a little bit to Tina and for those who haven't, a big thing for us is we really want to educate and empower and to stigmatize around the conversation of mental health in every aspect. I think oftentimes mental health is something that we can't physically see. And then there's chronic health issues, which often

Emma Davies (00:40.575) Yeah, so I am a holistic health advocate and in my background I've got a Masters in Psychology and I'm currently studying to be a therapist as well. And so I'm here today to talk about my journey from having chronic pain and visible illnesses and kind of the mental health issues that come around with that.

Kelsey (00:31.278) Good, thank you. Before we get started, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself, you know, what you're focusing on and kind of your world around mental health.

Emma Davies (00:28.777) Hi, I'm good, how are you?

Kelsey (00:01.378) Welcome back to another Tina Talks episode. I'm your host Kelsey and today we have our guest Emma. Today we're gonna be really talking about more topics around awareness and understanding when it comes to mental health, but specifically on how people are silently struggling and battling every day chronic pain and how that's really impacting mental health. And so we'll jump into that, but welcome to the episode, Emma, how are you?