Lettie Teague on Secret Lives in Wine

This is a Vintage Selection from 2007

The Conversation

The Restaurant Guys speak with Lettie Teague about her articles “The Secret Life of a Wine Salesperson” and “The Secret Life of a Sommelier.” Lettie gets a behind the scenes look into the selling of wine both to restaurants and to consumers. Hear how good shoes and avoiding coffee can lead to success. 

The Inside Track

The Guys invite Lettie on the show after reading her insider articles about getting wine from the distributor into restaurants then into the glasses of consumers. Lettie says this about Food & Wine magazine. 

“It is half of our name and we really make a point to have it in every possible place, not just in bottles recommended or profiles of winemakers or stories but also absolutely every dish that it's appropriate to. So, our commitment to wine is profound,” Lettie Teague on The Restaurant Guys Podcast 2007 

Bio

Lettie Teague has been The Wall Street Journal’s wine columnist for 15 years. Before joining the Journal in 2010, Lettie was the executive wine editor and columnist for Food & Wine magazine.

She has won three James Beard awards for her wine writing and is the author of three books: “Wine in Words” and “Educating Peter,” and "Dear Readers and Riders," a biography of best-selling children's book author Marguerite Henry. She is also the co-author and illustrator of “Fear of Wine" and was inducted into the Wine Media Hall of Fame in 2015.

Info

Lettie’s article “Secret Life of a Wine Salesmen”

https://www.foodandwine.com/wine/secret-life-of-a-wine-salesman

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Transcript

Francis 0:41

Hey everybody. Welcome back. You're listening to the Restaurant Guys. Mark and Francis are staged, left in Captain Lombardi restaurants in downtown New Brunswick. Our guest today is Letty Teague. Letty is the executive wine editor of Food and Wine Magazine, one of our favorites. And you've heard us talk about it many times before. Hey, Leddy. Hey there. How are you? I'm

Lettie 0:57

doing just fine. How? Welcome

Francis 0:58

to the show.

Lettie 0:59

Good to be here.

Francis 0:59

Um. I was prompted to, to ask my producer, to get you to come on the show when I saw an, an article you did recently called The Secret Life of a Wine Salesman. Right. Which I love, because I remember that you had done an article prior to that called The Secret Life of a som, yet.

Lettie 1:14

Wow. You have a very good memory.

Francis 1:15

Well, you know, they were very close. I was like, Hey, is this a repeat? No.

Lettie 1:19

Keep using that word secret. It's a very secretive enterprise.

Francis 1:23

I like it. It's very, it's very sexy. It draws you in.

Mark 1:25

Maybe you should have said the underground life of a wine salesman.

Lettie 1:29

Well, I guess that'll be part three.

Francis 1:30

So just to explain to our listeners, what Letty did was she went and she worked as a sommelier in a restaurant, where a friend of ours, Tim Kopec, is the, the head sommelier. And when you worked there, Eric Ziller, who's also been on the show as a sommelier. Uh, and then for this most recent article, you packed your bag and, and went out with a wine sales rep.

Lettie 1:47

Yeah. Uh, from a company called Martin Scott has a great portfolio and, um, some very strong salesmen who are willing to carry many bottles of wine. Yeah, yeah,

Francis 1:56

exactly. I could, I could never do that. I have so many friends who are in the wine sales business, and I just, and I want to talk about why I could, I could never be a wine salesman, but I have been.

Lettie 2:04

Is it

Francis 2:04

physical

Lettie 2:05

or

Francis 2:05

psychological? Psychological. It's definitely psychological differences, definitely. But both components, sir. Well, let's talk about the difference between being a sommelier and a wine salesman. I mean, for me, that the biggest thing is if you're, if you're a sommelier, the person is in your dining establishment and you're helping'em select which thing, right? If you're a wine salesman, you've got a. They can say no. Right, right. You know,

Lettie 2:26

well, you're selling though, in either case. but certainly you're, you certainly have more control, um, when you're the sommelier. At least. you've got to buy something in the beginning to sell it as opposed to just being there, you know, um, selling it. So you have, uh, sensibly, at least a degree more control. and certainly stability and, and certainly, uh, well actually both are, both of them are also like incredibly physically demanding. Um, and that was one thing that, that I was, really struck by when I was the soli egg. I mean,'cause I, I certainly having been, uh, um, a failure of a wine salesperson, um, no matter how much, how many miles I travel n many bottles I carried. Oh, I never seemed to actually sell enough. You weren't a closer? Um, no. Said, oh, you don't want this fine. Okay. Link away.

Francis 3:07

Well, I think a lot of people wonder what it would be like. Uh, and, and as more and more consumers have a little bit of wine knowledge and to be that the sommelier sort of the dashing person who knows a lot about a lot of different things, there's

Lettie 3:18

a lot more glamor in being a sommelier.

Mark 3:20

There is wine to open. That's, think, I think there's also another factor here when you're a sommelier, you where, how it's different than most. Other sales jobs, I think, and, and certainly a wine salesman would be one of those. You get to sell something they people want, but don't necessarily need.

Lettie 3:37

Right,

Mark 3:38

right. Or don't understand. They want your guidance. Exactly. And in most other cases, a salesperson is selling something that maybe you need but don't necessarily want,

Lettie 3:47

or, or neither. You neither nor wanted. Right? More honestly, that's the case.

Mark 3:51

Unfortunately, I've known a lot of salesmen selling things.

Francis 3:53

Exactly that Paul got a case category. That's worst. That's the worst case scenario. So now just so we, we clarify for our audience who, who, who may not know a sommelier basically is a, is the wine waiter. It's the guy on the floor. His job is to, to bring you the wine, serve you the wine, know what wines are there so we can answer any questions for you.

Lettie 4:11

Right.

Mark 4:11

Hopefully he's also the person purchasing the

Francis 4:13

wine. Exactly. So that you Right, exactly. They

Lettie 4:14

explained why that wine is on the list to begin with and then we'll have tasted all those wines on the list and can actually answer questions intelligently.

Francis 4:21

And I should say, and I should say he or she. So you went to maybe the, the, the best wine restaurant in Manhattan and got one of the best For sure. Yeah. Certainly for Wine for one is I would say Veritas. Right? That's what thinks S true I think are sort of neck and neck right now.

Lettie 4:36

Yeah. Yeah.

Francis 4:37

Well. So what was the most surprising thing you found from, from stepping onto the floor as a sommelier?

Lettie 4:42

Um, well, specific to the restaurant, uh, Veritas. The, the, the extraordinary revelation for me was the, was um, the fact that Tim and his, um, his guys were tasting every single bottle that went out there, and then, so they, they tasted, you know, they would taste a$10,000 wine. Um, and, and so the ability to taste, uh, uh, the opportunity razza taste was, was tremendous said, um, for that and, and the kinds of wines they're selling. Were just extraordinary. I mean, the, that, um, you know, my favorite phrase that uh, and I learned was a buck. They said that, that that wine cost a buck. And I thought, wow. They said, no, a buck is a hundred dollars, but wine that's two bucks. Well that's$200. And it was amazing how many wine for two bucks.

Francis 5:23

So two, so two buck Chuck takes on a whole different connotation there. I guess.

Lettie 5:27

Now the same thing at Veritas.

Francis 5:29

Actually, that's a great point that you bring up that, that. We, we use like Veritas in our restaurants, we use formal service, which is where the captain or the sommelier pours out a taste and tastes the wine him or herself, right. Before pouring the host to the party. Right. Right. A, a, a taste as well, and a, which is

Lettie 5:45

a great idea. That's a great idea for so many reasons, but it was also remarkable to me, not so much a Veritas'cause they have a very, they get a. Pretty educated clientele. Um, I was a very educated clientele, but people would sometimes say, wait a minute, that's my wine.

Mark 5:58

Yes, that's exactly what I was about to say. That's where we go. Occasionally you get, you get the customer says, you're drinking my wine. Right. But they said, well, we're also

Lettie 6:06

saving you a, on the experience of a bad wine, or B, potential humiliation. No. Should you, you know, accept this and, and find out later as court. I,

Francis 6:13

I think that's interesting. We actually will occasionally get letters of complaint, people say, and I've never seen that before in my life, and I've eaten at the best restaurants in the world. And

Lettie 6:21

so that never happens in Applebee's. Yeah, yeah.

Francis 6:25

we should explain to people that, that In a great restaurant, especially now that in wines there's a problem, there are problems with more and more wines being corked or being selected.

Mark 6:33

There are, and there are some really good restaurants that don't taste your wine. And I mean Sure,

Lettie 6:36

sure. It's really, you know, um, uh, it's an individual

Francis 6:39

choice, but, but to explain why the sommelier is tasting your wine before presenting it to you is it's a check on quality because there are flawed bottles of wine. I would say one in a hundred bottles of wine has something wrong with it these days.

Mark 6:50

Yeah. Oh, I, I would say it's even more than that. The number's definitely rising,

Lettie 6:54

but I think that, that is, is first and foremost the reason why, I mean that, that is, uh, the reason why, I mean, secondary may be way down there, but for me personally, it also to get an opportunity to taste some amazing wines that, you know,

Francis 7:05

well, you know, that's the other thing otherwise might get to, you know, if you, if you want an educated wine, uh, staff,

Lettie 7:11

right? They have to be able to mm-hmm. Know what it is. I mean, the

Francis 7:13

sommelier Veritas makes a good living, but he certainly doesn't make enough to be drinking.$12,000 bottles of wine every now, oh,

Lettie 7:18

I don't know, maybe. So a lot of wine

Francis 7:22

there. Those tips can be really good. We'll be talking more with Lety Teague, executive wine editor of Food and Wine Magazine. Let you, were we're talking about your experiences when you as a, as a journalistic assignment went and, uh, worked on the floor of one of the top wine restaurants in Manhattan. A sommelier and you said it was very physically demanding and I think people don't realize, I, I haven't bartended in, I don't know, a long time.

Lettie 7:44

And

Francis 7:44

we recently opened another bar and I went behind the bar and I trained the bartenders and I worked a couple of shifts.

Lettie 7:49

Right. You're exhausted. It's

Francis 7:51

brutal. Mark and I, mark and I used to work 14 hour shifts back to back like five in a row. Didn't hurt me when I was 26. Right. 40 killing me. Yeah. So what was so physically demanding about being a simul yet?

Lettie 8:02

Well, you know, in, in the case of the restaurant ton, first of all, in general, um, they're always on their feet. They absolutely never sit down. So you figure it takes their, um, on their feet from, from four 30 or five o'clock to 11 or 12. Um, and in the case of Veritas, uh, and in many restaurants, the, the seller is down, um, a flight of stairs

Francis 8:20

and the cellar.

Lettie 8:20

Oh, exactly. You'd hope that in case of most restaurants is down cellar. Yeah, a lot of, so you're, you're running down, you're crouching, you know, crawling, you know, looking for the, uh, the bottle. And then you're running back up the stairs and you're doing that over and over and over and over again, um,

Mark 8:33

while smiling and trying to look graceful. A lot of us keep our, a lot of us keep our wine cellars in the cellar.

Lettie 8:39

Yeah, so, so you know that, and, and to do that, um, just over and over I thought, you know, a, um, I, I don't have the calf muff. BI definitely don't have the shoes. And, and c um, I don't know how long I could hang onto the grateful attitude for seven hour. I,

Francis 8:52

I will tell you what's a funny story, how you talk about in most restaurants, the sellers and the cellar. Mm-hmm. We, we did a consulting job. For a restaurant and they had this great wine cellar uhhuh, but the person who'd been doing the wines before us, um, thought that it was too much work to go down to the cellar every time to get the bottle of wine. Right. And so we had a rack put in the kitchen. And so there was one, preferably, well, so there was one bottle of every wine in the kitchen cooking. So

Mark 9:15

they had a per, it was perfectly stored in the seller until, you know, you re you did your restocking it. They ruined everybody. They ruined every bottle

Francis 9:22

one by one. It was really special. one of the things that you talk about that I think was interesting is they had the, the no toothbrushing rule after three o'clock. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lettie 9:30

It's three and a half hours, I think was the, the time or three hours.

Francis 9:33

Well, tell us about that and why that is.

Lettie 9:35

It's fascinating to me that, um, Tim had his rule, actually I've run by other som and some of they agreed with, so some of they disagreed with, he said, no mints, um, three hours prior to service. No brushing of teeth three hours prior to service. And, um, coffee was all right, which actually some sommelier have agreed with and other solis have disagreed with, that it was, it was all right to taste after, shortly after coffee and others disagreed. Um, but, you know, certainly it, It would interfere with your, your impression of the wine. Um, but I, it's interesting because I saw that, uh, that was, uh, some kind of a general understanding and in which case, uh, or rather, I found that it wasn't really quite true.

Francis 10:10

No, I mean, at Veritas they're, they're, they're a little more strict than most places, but it is, it is. Super important when you're talking about selling somebody, you know, a$12,000 bottle of wine that you, you can't be second guessing things, you know? Right,

Lettie 10:22

right.

Mark 10:23

Well, same thing. I, I mean, even politics, even in our kitchen, our chef doesn't allow coffee tasting during, during dinner. You can't, you're not, because you're tasting food constantly. He doesn't want anybody drinking coffee.

Lettie 10:33

Right. Well, or that's only water to the bathroom constantly too. You're not allowed. You're not allowed off the line. The floor. Yeah. Leave me the way

Francis 10:42

Now, Letty, I wanna come back and talk more about this, these two articles you wrote, one, on being as So and the Other on being a wine salesman. But I wanna take a moment and talk about, uh, food and Wine Magazine because Food and Wine magazine uh ha. You handle wine. Really differently and true to the, the title of the magazine, you really integrate wine into your coverage of food. Is that, is that you, is that on purpose?

Lettie 11:03

Um, absolutely. I mean, I think, uh, the fact that we have, well first of all, we have more wine coverage than any food magazine. I. In the country. I mean, you know, it is half of our name and, and we really, um, make a point to, have it in every possible place, not just in, in, you know, uh, bottles recommended or, or profiles of, of winemakers or stories or features that, but also, um, absolutely every dish that it's appropriate too. You know, we have a suggested pairing or two and, and, um, an index to wines, you know, that are in the magazine. And then of course we have two, um, annual wine issues. So, um, our, you know, our, our commitment to wine is profound.

Mark 11:40

Yeah. Well, just like, just like you might recommend a great ingredient to go into some special dish or some special recipe at the same time you're recommending a wine to, to go with something. Right.

Lettie 11:49

Because, I mean, that's the, the, that is the natural place of wine to be consumed with food.

Francis 11:53

See, now I'm really impressed though with, at the front of, I'm looking right now at, at the current issue of food and wine, and I'm looking in the front, at the, at the wine index that you have, which basically. Refers back to all the articles and gives people say, okay, well this is the wine we talked about. Here it is. And so you could basically rip out this page, take it in your back pocket, and go to the liquor store.

Lettie 12:12

Right. Exactly. I mean it, it's the same thing that we do for all the recipes in the issue.

Francis 12:15

Exactly. One

Mark 12:16

wonderful or the other. And that's you. You don't encourage people to tear your magazine though, do you?

Lettie 12:20

Oh, it depends what they're tearing out, but absolutely. Tear up. Carry it around. Yeah. Well.

Francis 12:25

I, I think this is a very different approach to an approach that I, we Mark and I talk about as being overused a lot, which is where you get a, a magazine that deals with one and they talk about scores. Yeah. And they talk about comparing one, one, you know, seven different Cabernets to find the best cabernet. Right, right. This is a different approach to that. Do you think that the score, that scores have have a place or do you think they're overused? Um, in our culture? Uh

Lettie 12:46

uh. Yes. To those questions. Um, yes, I have a place, um, and, uh, also tell I'll address in a second. And, and, um, yes, they're overused'cause everybody has a scoring. You know, now, um, every, uh, every magazine that exists, every retail, every writer, you know, it seems like everybody has their own scoring system. Um, I think when it was, first, created or at least, most memorably utilized by, uh, by, Robert Parker, the wine advocate, and, uh, and the wine spectator. Being the two most prominent examples. I mean, you know, that, that it provided, um, uh, a shorthand, you know, at a time when people really didn't, understand, um, why, right.

Mark 13:23

People didn't necessarily have a vocabulary, but they could understand a score.

Lettie 13:26

Exactly. Um, so it was a way that everybody, you know, went to, well, most everybody went through, uh, school, you know, and, and understood what it mean meant to get an 82 versus bringing home a report card that had 94 right. Um, you know, and I think, and, and, and Bob Parker himself says, time and time again, don't, you know, it's not just about the scores. I mean, he writes really dense, uh, um, tasting notes, as do you know, other wine, make other wine magazines, um, you know, to describe the wine and to give, especially in the case of Parker, you know, the profile, the wine maker or, you know, some great, um, background and

Francis 13:54

Robert Parker being the, the, uh, publisher of, of a very important. Magazine that really was the first to popularize the a hundred point scale. Right. Which is a wine advocate,

Lettie 14:01

and it's also been a contributing editor to Food Wine Magazine since its inception.

Francis 14:04

Right,

Lettie 14:05

right. Uh, I'm proud to say so. So why don't,

Francis 14:07

so why do you avoid scores with

Lettie 14:08

Food and Wine Magazine? Well, because, uh, I think it's, it's, it's a critic, it's a critic's choice. And I'm not a, I'm wine critic. I'm a, I'm a wine journalist. Um, and we don't have a critic at the magazine. Uh, we, we write about wine and we taste wine. We have a tasting room. We have a tasting panel and the, but, but, um, you know, it's a critic. Business to assign scores. And, and you know what? I don't think that it, um, we don't need to, we don't need to do that. There isn't that need. Um, but it really goes back to, I, you know, I'm personally, I don't consider myself a critic. And, and, um, that's not the, it's not the business of our magazine. We write about, um, wines that we suggest, you know, that you drink and, and heaven, those, there are not enough pages of the magazine to talk about all the, you know, you know, all the amazing wines that are out there, um, that people should be drinking.

Mark 14:50

Well, one of the things you just alluded to is kind of the backstory of wine and one of the, one of the things that Parker gives you that, that, uh, the spectator doesn't give you sometimes, uh, when it, when he is talking about a wine, is, is where it comes from. And that, and that whole story. Right, right.

Lettie 15:03

The

Mark 15:03

personality. Well, I think, I think maybe this is a good opportunity to talk about you as a wine salesperson where you had to know the, the backstory and, and how important that was. I

Lettie 15:12

think it didn't seem to do any, do me any good. once upon a time when I was selling, it'd say, lady, I really like talking to you and it's a lot of fun, but you know, I'm not gonna buy wine either. A I was selling really expensive Italian wine at a time when nobody thought that that was a sensible idea. And b, I had, you know, huge, um, minimums. So for me, you know, with selling, selling, uh, uh, three,$5 Italian Chardonnay and Poughkeepsie, you know, uh, uh, 15 years ago,

Francis 15:36

right. Which is$35 means that it's gonna wind up on the retail shelf being a$50 box.

Lettie 15:40

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Francis 15:42

Now, but I think that Mark, rose, mark, you bring up a, a great point in your article on being a sommelier. Mm-hmm. Uh, you talk about a, a sommelier having to know the story to be able to tell.

Lettie 15:54

Right.

Francis 15:54

As a wine salesman, you talk about Deidre, who's one of the wine sales reps that you follow around and she tells the story and one of the other wine sales reps as well. And, but Deidre says, I don't rep rep, I don't sell wines, I represent wine makers. Right. I think is is one of the things she said. And I thought that was great and you as a journalist. Do the same thing. You tell a story. Yeah. Why is the story so important to wine?

Lettie 16:16

Well, I mean, as human beings, we're interested in other human beings. I mean, and what it is that, what you find in a person is, I think you do find in a wine. And, what goes into the creation of wine, of a wine, wine is, um, in many ways just as interesting or, or sometimes even more interesting than the wine itself because, I mean, you can have, uh, you know, 17 very well made California Cabernets that you, to have the story of, of the person that made them, as a distinguishing, um, characteristic or, or something memorable. Something even more memorable.'cause you can, you can, you can say the 17, you know, cherry, berry, tasting, I mean, they, they all become essentially the same, um, uh, wine, you know, described, um, and there's, there's tired adjectives that, that the, the additional component is, is knowing, you know, the person that made it and that that tells you an enormous amount.

Mark 17:01

Mm-hmm. It, I, I think it tells, you en it, it obviously a memory tool, but it tells you an enormous amount and some of the things, sometimes what it tells you is, okay, this farmer or this wine maker has put. This extra effort into making this right and nine times out of 10, and I won't say 10 times out of 10'cause it's not true. No, unfortunately

Lettie 17:20

it's not.

Mark 17:20

Extra effort translate into better wine. Right. Or or better product, whatever the product is.

Francis 17:26

Right. I think, I think there's also, and Lydia, I'm curious to see, to see if you agree with. Mean, I think one of the things that people who aren't into wine don't get, like why people are so crazy about wine is that it's not all a contest to make this ideal wine. And that's why where the, the score system falls short, I think. Right. The idea is you can have 10 different Cabernets that are all great, great Cabernets, they're all good Cabernets, right? And. They're different. And the thing about great wine from small producers especially is that it's unique. There's nothing else like the wine from this particular vineyard in this particular year. Right, exactly. And I think, and I think the story of the winemaker helps, helps to quantify that particular wine. It's.

Lettie 18:03

Right, exactly.'cause it's, it's, it's him expressing his personality and also the, the, the character of, uh, presumably, um, the character of, of that, that piece of ground that he's working on or with. And, and, and, you know, the more intimate, the connection between the wine maker and, and, and the vineyard where the wine is made. And, uh, and this one phrase that. Um, uh, uh, you know, winemakers repeat ad nauseum, although there is, there is truth in it. I've just heard it 5,000 times and they say it as if they're the first one to ever say, you know, wine is made in the vineyard. But it is, it is true. I mean, there has to be that connection on intimate connection to the land. Understand,

Francis 18:38

And we're talking with Letty Teague, executive wine editor at Food and Wine Magazine. So Letty, what's up with the Food and Wine 2006 American Wine Awards? What's that all about?

Lettie 18:47

Oh, well this is a program we do every year. This is actually the 10th year that we've been, uh, recognizing some of the best wines and the most talented wine makers and the, uh, the most promising new wineries in America.

Francis 18:58

Well, one of the things I like about this is you have the under$20 bottle category and the over$20 bottle category, and that's really. Necessary. I think,

Lettie 19:06

yeah, I think that's the way, um, most people buy wine. Um, well, maybe even a little less than 20.

Francis 19:11

What gets you on the list? What, what are the award winners? So you see, I'm looking at the list and I have a bunch of my favorite wines here, but what's your criteria for, for getting on the list? I assume you making decisions.

Lettie 19:20

Well, actually, if you, if you look, we've got a, a list of judges. so it's, it's in fact a, uh, a panel. Um, it's a, it's very democratic in that sense. we send out ballots, um, to just about 30 judges every year. And these are, these are wine uh, professionals. They're, they're contributing writers and editors. They're wine makers, they're retailers. They're

Francis 19:39

our, um, our ballots must have been lost in the mail. Yeah. Lists the

Lettie 19:42

list. You know, we want people that taste. All the time. All the time, and really have a sense of what's going on, in American wine. And then when, and then when we have the finalists, we, we call those wines in and, um, at the magazine then we have, um, basically, you know, the taste off uh, at the, uh, you know. Here at the Office of Food and Wine.

Mark 19:59

I think sometimes people, people, uh, you know, I tell people I'm going to a wine tasting and they look at me like, uh oh, that must be fun, be awesome. And I think sometimes people don't realize, I gotta go taste a hundred wines right now. Yeah. And try and try and notice these subtle nuance in each of them. And my

Francis 20:15

finger and lips are gonna be purple and I'm have a.

Lettie 20:18

And then after that.

Francis 20:19

Right, right. No one's gonna wanna map. It's gonna, the la the last time that I was invited to sit on a tasting panel, and it's fun to get to, invited to sit on tasting panels. The last, the last tasting panel, I, I almost, uh, beat a friend of mine who, who does, uh, wine for the star ledger in here in New Jersey. Mm-hmm. He said, um. Oh, why don't you come in and sit on the, we're doing this, we're to be a judge on this panel. It was the home wine making Iran.

Lettie 20:43

Oh, did he not tell you that before? He

Francis 20:45

told me the day of. Oh my lord. Alright, so, so what should we be drinking on our Thanksgiving table? I mean, I'm looking at the Thanksgiving issue here of fine wine. What, what should be drinking on, on? Uh. Thanksgiving table?

Lettie 20:57

Well, I mean, you can look at, you can also look at, uh, the ones from the American Wine Awards.'cause certainly you, a bunch of those, um, wines are, are perfectly appropriate. And, and heaven knows Pinot is an appropriate, um, wine to Thanksgiving in terms of, its, its versatility. uh, Zen, you know, is z is certainly, uh, the most American of wines. And, and I think, you know, it's got all those big, rich, ripe. fruit flavors that I think

Mark 21:18

that's, that's great with like a lot of those stuffing spices and things like that Del really, really, uh, marries well with

Francis 21:24

thoses. I think we wanna point out to, um, consumers out there that, zinfandel people know what White Zinfandel is, which is a Sweet Rose wine, but Zinfandel many people know, but some people still don't. That red Zinfandel is a very fruity alcoholic, uh, uh, wine. That's, that's a serious wine. And, and, but not sweet. Not sweet like white Zinfandel. Right? And great with Turkey and your Thanksgiving meal and, and very versatile, very American because it's, we're the only country except for a few in Australia and, and South Africa where you'll find Zinfandel and you can find Zinfandels for$10 a bottle. Elle's for$70 a right. You

Mark 22:01

ASEL still, I think one of the best bargains in, in as far as grape varieties and six Yeah, absolutely. Because

Lettie 22:05

there's such a snob factor against it, you know, because it's perceived as not being a noble wine. Right. That, um, me alone cabernet is, and, and the fact is, does it age as, as, as long and as well? No, but that's the whole, the whole, juicy and, and exuberant and, and delicious.

Francis 22:18

Well, and it's like, does it age well? No, but I'm gonna drink it on Thursday, so who cares if this bottle's gonna be empty? This whatever bottle I drink on Thanksgiving is not gonna age past, uh, that Thursday. So, so who cares? Even be remembered probably at the end of the night. One of the, one of the things that Mark and I like to do, and especially I think what works for Thanksgiving is the, is the, is the magical pairing is, um. I like Riesling German or Austrian Rieslings to start and then Zinfandel with dinner. I think those are some of the most versatile,

Lettie 22:45

right? I think that's excellent choices

Francis 22:45

of all combinations.

Mark 22:46

so. So Letty recently, uh, and in this, this latest issue, you, you gotta sit down with Francis Ford Coppola for a little while.

Lettie 22:53

Yeah, that was, that was really, really, uh, um, a really interesting and, and pretty wonderful experience.

Mark 22:58

Can you tell us a little bit about your conversation and you know, what he's doing these days? Um,

Lettie 23:02

well, you know what he's not doing, I guess.

Mark 23:04

There you go.

Lettie 23:05

The man is, is a, you know, a dynamo. I mean, first of all, he has a film that he's been working on for, you know, I don't know, a year and a half. It's going to come out sometime, uh, next year. Uh, that he shot in Romania for a year. He, um, he, he purchased the winery ine in Sonoma, um, about, uh. Six months ago. Um, and will be renaming it and reopening it, um, uh, as, as some extravaganza that he wouldn't, tell me exactly what, but just it was going to be like a, an all day experience to go there. And it sounded like, you know, there were going to be, I could only speculate, so I won't say, but, um, he's also opening a hotel in, um, so

Mark 23:37

it's like Suberin now. Suberin now gonna be like a waterpark.

Lettie 23:40

I.

Francis 23:42

Just so you know, pop Francis Ford Coppola makes, is a wine maker out in California and a great wine maker

Lettie 23:48

state. Yeah. Is, is his, his primary property, which he lived, his house was about half a mile behind that. And, the Rubicon Estate, which was up until January of this year near Neal Coppola, um, you know, the winery name. And then he said, you know what I'm getting rid of, um, I'm getting rid of all the, the extraneous stuff. Um, which was, you know, the, I thought the best, uh, um, you know, tasting room tchotchkes in Napa. Um. All the movie memorabilia, all the other ones that aren't Rubicon, which is the flagship one, um, uh, you know, Bordes s Blend and shipping it all over to Sonoma where they'll have a lot more fun and in Napa will be serious.

Francis 24:22

You know. You know, one of the things that I, of his most recent vineyard acquisition in Napa, it was that it was the highest price paid for, uh, vineyard Land in Napa at the time. Yeah.$300,000 an acre. Yeah.

Lettie 24:35

It's prime acreage in Rutherford, one of the most established, you know, wine making regions. Um, in, in, in America,

Francis 24:40

in, yeah. Well, and also he, you know what, if you're France, Fort Copeland and you wanna make it the best vineyard anywhere and make the best wine at can

Lettie 24:45

Right.

Francis 24:46

300,000 an acre, just

Lettie 24:48

write it.

Francis 24:48

Yeah. That's sort of like me saying Yeah. Supersize me is sort, sort of where we are on the Yeah. I'll take the bottomless coke. Yeah. All right. That's all right. I

Lettie 24:57

like that you and Francis have more in common than you realize.

Francis 24:59

Yeah, I wish, I wish she'd had adopt me. Leddy. I wanted to say thanks for coming on the show with us. You've been a blast.

Lettie 25:04

Thanks. It's lots of fun.

Francis 25:05

Thanks. Ludy. Leddy Teague is the executive wine editor of Food and Wine Magazine. She does a lot of great writing, food and wine magazine. If you wanna look at our philosophy of how, how wine and food should be integrated, the, the magazine really lives up to its name and it's largely a result of, of Letty's effort and how to structure the magazine. you're listening to the Restaurant Guys, central Jersey 1450. Hey everybody. Welcome back. You're listening to the Restaurant guys, mark and Francis of Stage left in Catherine Body Restaurant.

Mark 25:46

So we just had Letty Teague from Food and Wine Magazine on and, and we were talking to her about a couple articles she wrote recently, and one of the ones was a secret life of a wine salesman. And one of the things that I really enjoyed about the article, and I, and I think maybe, maybe I'll, maybe I'll take it a little bit easier on my wine sales person, the next time they come in, and I'll just read you this one line. Some of the retailers I called on had been well. Mean,

Francis 26:11

you know, it's true though. I could, I have so much respect for those guys, for our friends. And I'm not just saying that'cause they all drive around in the car and listen to the show. They, they are

Mark 26:19

some of our best listeners.

Francis 26:20

We, but we, I mean we had been approached about becoming a wine sales. I remember one of our big wine distributors, a guy named Harmon Sker, I'll say, I'll say that name out. He is a big wine distributor and he, we've been buying wine from him since, since it was him and his brother and one employee. Now they're the 800 pound gorilla of the wine world. But I remember, and I reminded him of this recently,

Mark 26:37

they won Food and wines, uh, distributor beer, best distributor a few years back,

Francis 26:41

well, shortly after we opened the restaurant in like 93, 94, they had these amazing properties that nobody in New Jersey was doing. And we were the only restaurant customer, and we were doing it over the phone, and we were, it was very exciting. I talked to Harmon all the time, and I remember he said to me early on, he said, you know, if this restaurant thing doesn't work out, you can always come to work for us. And, uh, well Harmon, if you're listening, um. I'm glad it worked out.

Mark 27:04

I'd rather be your best customer than your number one Zoo Letty talks about, I mean, and again, we didn't get to get into the, into the wine salesman article very deeply, but she talks about, you know, riding the subway back and forth across the city, having a

Francis 27:16

case of wine with you, sande of wine wherever you go on the subway. But actually no, uh, wine sales rep. So I used to date a wine sales rep and she had a lot, some of her friends had a problem, like one shoulder was lower than the other. Because they're carrying around 6, 8, 10 bottles of wine. I think the one and you can link. You can read this article on the Secret Life of a wine salesman. And she talks about working with this, this one sales rep who was really a, a great sales rep who spoke Italian, French, Portuguese, German, um, fluently, but she was also a hottie. Guess who got the best sales? The two middle ledge guys or the hottie. Yeah. And when asked, um, she said, you know, why do you always get a sales? She asked this woman, Deidre, um, she said. Uh, flirting. I do a lot of flirting and you know, it's true. It's absolutely true. Well,

Mark 27:59

it works on you better than most.

Francis 28:01

No, no, that's not true. I'm Steve Wine salesman hate me because I'm Mr. Like I only, I'm, I'm only want those very, you know,

Mark 28:07

and, and we only have a couple more seconds to talk about this, but, you know, it's so hard. You're, you're as the restaurant side of this. I know that they're the wine sales person's up there waiting for me, and I want to get to them as quickly as I can, but my

Francis 28:18

job is you the customer, but I'm swamped. My job is you the customer. So go to our website, check out Food and Wine Magazine, the It's pretty awesome. Hope you've enjoyed the hour. I'm Francis Shot. And I'm Mark Pascal. We are the restaurant guys,