The Restaurant Guys' Regulars

Andrew Zimmern: Bizarre Food Anthropologist

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The Restaurant Guys' Regulars

Exclusive access to bonus episodes!

This is a Vintage Selection from 2008

The Banter

The Guys discuss an issue that persists today, the rising price of food. Hear what little has changed since 2008.

The Conversation

The Restaurant Guys host food anthropologist Andrew Zimmern for a second time to hear about his travels and love of Bizarre Foods. Two of his favorites are pork roll and yak penis (no, we’re not kidding!).

The Inside Track

The Guys catch up with  Andrew Zimmern and chat about his show’s meteoric rise.

“ Well, let's just, let's just call a spade a spade. The two of you are the most prescient, knowledgeable food industry insiders in a global sense. And the minute that you took the golden scepter and knocked me over the head with it, the show took off. So let's just be honest and share the credit where it's due,” Andrew Zimmern on The Restaurant Guys Podcast 2008

Bio

Andrew Zimmern is a chef, food writer, radio show host, author, and host of award-winning television series Bizarre Food franchise among others. He is a four-time James Beard Award winner for his television shows. He has received many Emmy nominations and won for The Zimmern List.

He is the author of several books for all ages about bizarre foods as well as an adventure book for middle school students.  

Currently, Andrew is on The Outdoor Channel’s series, Field to Fire.


Info

Andrew’s Website

https://andrewzimmern.com/



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Mark:

Hello, mark. Hey Francis. How are you? I'm well, yeah. I want

Francis:

to talk today about rising food prices.

Mark:

Rising food prices. That's, that's when the food prices go up.

Francis:

That's when the food prices go up.

Mark:

That's what's going on now.

Francis:

Well, it's what's going on with most of the food now, but it seems as though, um, the, the rising food prices are not. Affecting as badly, and in some cases, not at all the kinds of foods that we talk about, which are, to be honest mm-hmm. On the more expensive end, which were always

Mark:

on the more expensive end of the spectrum.

Francis:

There's an article in, uh, the Times recently, uh, Kim Seaverson, who's been on our show, wrote a wonderful article. It's called Good News. About rising food prices. That's right. She says good news about rising food prices. And it's, it's an interesting paradigm. She identifies, she writes, while grocery shoppers agonize over paying 25% more for eggs and 17% more for milk. Michael Pollen, the author and def facto leader of the food intellectuals, happily Dreams of small, expensive bottles of Coca-Cola. along with some other critics of the American way of eating, he likes the idea that some kinds of food will cost more. And here's one reason why, as the price of fossil fuels and commodities like grain climb, nutritionally questionable high profit ingredients like. high fructose corn syrup, will rise as well. As a result, cokes are likely to get smaller and cost more. Uh, then the argument goes fewer people will drink them or they'll drink less of them. Now. The idea behind this article, and she, it's, it's a very well written and, and a large article that we can fully address here. But is that the kind of foods that are highly processed, bad for the environment, bad for you, have a large carbon footprint, are the ones that are artificially cheap? that are seeing the prices rise.

Mark:

Let's talk about the main food that we're talking about. The, the, the. Biggest food commodity that is artificially deflated is corn.

Francis:

Well, it's subsidized by the government, the prices of corn in America are artificially low'cause we pay out huge subsidies. Not to individual farmers, but the huge agribusiness corporations. Um. To make more corn than we need so that our big food processors can get cheap ingredients. What this does is it puts small farmers in Mexico and other, like even corn farmers in Mexico, puts them out of business, drives them off the land. They then migrate here in search of work. We then want to kick them out. Um, uh. Corn uses a lot of fossil fuels. It's transported a great distance. It uses, petroleum based, pesticides. But, but we're

Mark:

producing more corn right now. And the reason we're producing more corn right now is, is ethanol. Now, I'm, Not a proponent of ethanol, though. I though I love the idea of studying it and learning more about it and learning how it's used. I think that corn is not a great use for ethanol because it, it's so highly intensive in petroleum. We, it takes so much petroleum to make well, corn, it takes a

Francis:

lot of water and it takes a lot of pesticides. Mm-hmm. And most of the corn in America is genetically modified. Uh, but in any event, this artificially cheap corn, which is now. You know, artificially cheap,

Mark:

high fructose corn syrup. And

Francis:

what's funny is we're still subsidizing these farmers mm-hmm. Who are making huge profits now because of the demand for corn and have been making very good profits all along. Your family farm, by the way, is generally not subsidized. And what the people that are talking about, about these rising prices of these foods that are nutritionally questionable, um, and not so great for the environment is. Do we and, and meat falls in there.'cause meat. corn fed beef is, is a big part of our diet. The question is, yes, the price of food is going up, but let's face it, everybody we're fat. Okay, well, and, and let's

Mark:

face it, everybody food has been artificially cheap. Okay? Well, some kinds of food. Some kinds of food. But if McNuggets cost the same amount as real chicken. Would that be a bad thing? And I think that's the question that Kim is asking. Would that be a bad thing? And I, and obviously the answer is no. If it costs the same to put high fructose corn syrup in your Coca-Cola as it does to put sugar in your Coca-Cola, would that be a bad thing? Well, and my argument is no it would not.

Francis:

And if, and if Coca-Cola is a little more expensive. Mm-hmm. And so. You know, there is not an incentive for, some fast food chains. Say, yeah, you get a, a 64 ounce, 64

Mark:

ounces for, for 10 cents more than the 10 ounce,

Francis:

right? And they say, well, wait a second. We have to charge for that. Is it such a great thing that the, the kinds of food that are not good for us and not good for our planet and not good for our farmers are so cheap and I'm, I'm not sure that it is. And it's, it's always, are you sure that it's not right? Well, I'm, you're sure that it's not, And the fact of the matter is also, well, we eat too much of that kind of food. Mm-hmm. And, and look, a lot of us are obese. So if we had to cut down your 64 ounce Coke to a 32 ounce Coke or a 28 ounce Coke, or like we had 25 years ago,

Mark:

an eight ounce Coke. Eight ounce

Francis:

Cokes.

Mark:

Mm-hmm.

Francis:

And that was a normal serving. Was that a horrible thing? I, I think it's a very good thing. Now remember, in the, in the current system, uh, organic farmers are not subsidized. Vegetable farmers are generally not subsidized. Mm-hmm. People who grow outside the mainstream of the beef industry are generally not subsidized. Um, so, and, and they're also when people have grass fed beef that doesn't eat corn, and it's raised locally, so it doesn't rely a lot on, transportation fuels and it's grown organically, so it doesn't use a lot of petroleum based fertilizers and pesticides. Well, the rising fuel prices aren't affecting those people as much. Mm-hmm. Uh, and so maybe, if so, if your cow's

Mark:

eating grass, grass doesn't really cost anymore because ethanol's being produced grass is grass and it grows out in the backyard and the cows eat it.

Francis:

And, and if this brings the kinds of good foods that, that we. Always talk about into the realm of, of competitiveness for pricing, you have to pay a little more for them rather than a lot more. I don't think that's a bad thing for society. And it's funny because people, uh, criticize Alice Waters here all the time. People have criticized us for saying, well, you know, you propose a diet that only rich people who go to Whole Foods can eat. Look, whole Foods makes it easy, and Whole Foods charges a price. Um, but again, I, I, I posit that. A lot of us could probably eat less than we do.

Mark:

Well, I'll also posit that if you're eating seasonally and you're eating from your local markets, one of the, the. Great, secrets, I guess it is still today, is that at a lot of these local food markets, you are getting or, or have available to you organic foods and good for you foods that are coming from local producers that are the same or cheaper than the tomatoes that are coming from Guatemala that are on your standard supermarket shelf.

Francis:

Well, and you bring up a good point. Look, the lo shopping at your local's farmer's market can often be as. Inexpensive or less expensive than shopping at your supermarket and the prices are certainly more comparable'cause you're cutting out the middleman. You're buying right from the farmer. But, but I guess what I'm saying is when you go into a hamburger joint and you pay 79 cents for a burger, you know that there's no way that someone could produce that without externalizing a lot of those costs and. You know that it's not good for you and you know, maybe you don't get to have two Big Macs.

Mark:

When Francis talks about externalizing those costs, those costs are either in your water that's no longer, potable because of the pesticides that have floated into it, or, uh, or someone else pays the cost. Right. Someone else, someone pays the cost in pollution or in worker, or, right. Exactly. Or maybe it's just the fact that. It's, it's really, really bad for you. And there's a, there's a societal cost to that as well.

Francis:

It's always, it's always hard to argue the position that, see for me, I hate Walmart, right? So I think Walmart does a lot of bad things. Some people disagree with me. I think that's fine. I, I subscribe to walmart watch.com. Um. Walmart does bring cheaper prices to the consumer, at least initially and maybe overall. But if that, and I'm not saying this happens necessarily'cause I don't want them to sue me, uh, but if a Walmart in your town brings you 10% cheaper prices on hardware and groceries and other stuff, but the hardware store closes and the pharmacy closes and the florist closes and all those people are outta work and your downtown is aborted up downtown. I, is your life really better because your groceries are 10% cheaper? I mean is are they really? You know what is, that's what I talk about. Externalizing the cost. The cost is shut. Yeah. Walmart, the cost of Walmart. You have to factor in shutting down your downtown. Mm-hmm. Anyway, well, we'll be back in just a moment. We're gonna be talking with Andrew Zimmer of Bizarre Foods with Andrew Zimmer, one of the best shows on the travel channel Hey everybody. Welcome back. You're listening to the Restaurant Guys, mark and Francis of Stage left in Captain Lombardi restaurants in downtown New Brunswick. And our guest today is Andrew Zimmer and he is the associate editor and dining columnist for the Minneapolis St. Paul Magazine. Uh, but he is also a host of the Travel Channels Bizarre Foods, with Andrew Zimmer. You can find out more about him@andrewzimmer.com. You link there through our website@restaurantguysradio.com.

Mark:

Andrew, welcome back to the show.

Francis:

Hey guys, it's nice. Great to be here. It is nice to have you back. Lots of things have happened since we first had you on the show. You, you've, you've exploded.

Andrew:

Well, uh, you know, let's just, let's just call a spade a spade. The two of you are the most prescient, knowledgeable food industry insiders in a global sense. And the minute that you, uh, you know, took golden scepter and knocked me over the head with it, the show took off. So let's just. Let's just be honest and share the credit where it's due.

Francis:

Oh, that's gonna go on a clip for our, I'll tell you that things,

Andrew:

things are, things have definitely changed since the last time that we talked. The show's become very, very popular. We've, the network, tripled their order. We're already filming the third season, even though we're still shooting the second one. And. You know, it's, uh, you know, the, the, the big book deals started happening, the sponsorship started happening and it's, it's a little overwhelming, I have to say. You sort of never, I. Plan on being in this position, and then when it sort of happens, you're just so grateful and so humbled by it all as you're having a nervous breakdown. I, I was gonna say while you're

Mark:

clobbered by the, by the enormous work of it all at the same time. Yeah.

Andrew:

It's, it's, uh, it's kind of insane. My, someone in my office took a calendar the other day to try to explain to me how bad things were, and I said, it's not that bad. And they showed me that in a 90 day period. Even though I was in the country for like four weeks during that 90 day period, I was only in town in my hometown for four days.

Mark:

Wow. Wow.

Andrew:

Excuse me,

Mark:

this is the life of the superstar, Andrew. You're just gonna have to accept it.

Andrew:

It's, yeah, it's, I don't know. It's, it's, it's the stuff they don't hear. I mean, I now have a lot more sympathy for the, uh, you know, drug old 20-year-old movie starlets. Uh, I understand. You know, thank God I'm 16 and a half years sober.

Mark:

That's good. No. You know, and now you have no more eating, uh, you know, filet mignon in restaurants. It's just not allowed anymore.

Andrew:

You know, something. It's so crazy. It's, it's funny that you say that because I, you know, I'll go out to dinner with my wife and my son. You know, the local burger place and someone is trying to scoop something outta the garbage and serve it to me and send it to the table with a cute note. And I'm just like, my God. Stop already. No, I need a

Speaker 5:

hamburger.

Mark:

Well, we, honestly, Francis and I have the same problem having a, a, you know, one of our restaurants is a very high end restaurant, so I'll go to friend's house and they want to make me a gourmet meal. Yeah. And I, and I'm like. Meatloaf. Okay. Not

Andrew:

that I Exactly. I want pot roast.

Mark:

That's the stuff. Now

Francis:

I understand that, bizarre Foods with Andrew Zimmer is, is it the most popular show on the, on the, the Travel channel? I.

Andrew:

Yeah. You know, half the season last year, uh, we were trading one in two spots with the Tony's show, which was all on the same night, which was Monday night. Um, that's Anthony

Mark:

Bourdain's show called No Reservations on the same number.

Andrew:

That's right. And, uh, you know, half the season his show was number one, half the season. Mine was number one. And you look at things two ways. You know, there's, there's ratings in terms of percentage of household, and then there's demographic. Um, so there the two separate ratings criteria. And, we did a, uh, a fabulous, fabulous job, uh, last season for the network in terms of both, as did he. Did he this year matter? We did such a great job that they moved me onto my own night. Um, then once that happened, his show I think is in hiatus in between season four A and four B. I'm in the middle of season two A. Mm-hmm. And I think the last five weeks that my show has been on, we've been the highest rated program.

Mark:

So last year you did 12, 14 shows, and this year you're gonna be doing more.

Andrew:

Uh, about almost 40 if you include the specials.

Francis:

Wow. Now, alright, so, what is the key to the ratings? Is it, is it the more bizarre food you eat or the more bizarre the food is that the ratings go up? What is the key to the most highly rated shows? I.

Andrew:

It really depends on what happens within the context of each show. I'll, I'll tell you a funny story. Uh, season number one, the most watched and talked about episode I didn't, and the most watched and talked about, seen in that episode. I didn't even eat anything. It was when the witch doctor from Ecuador abused me, uh, naked in his office, um, which is why they decided to do a pilot with me called Bizarre Worlds, where I don't eat anything. but I'm just out getting abused by which doctors in, in foreign countries. Um, I've argued successfully to have some, some food thrown into the mix there because I don't want to, I don't want to take away or dilute what I love to do. So, on one hand, that's the biggest ratings, Bonanza, which is me, me being abused by someone sort, the fish. The, the other giant ratings bonanza is when you put something so outrageous, so fantastical into it, that it begins to. Dictate to people that this is sort of must see television, the opening segment of our season two A was the, uh, the penis restaurant in Beijing and it exploded out of the screen at people, no pun intended. And you know, our head of programming, Matt Butler, uh, actually said to people in a meeting, very seriously, uh, you know, penis equals ratings and which is one of the all time great humorous. You know, show meeting notes

Francis:

now. That's a quote now so that our listeners, before our listeners start calling up and lighting up the switchboard here, we're talking about a restaurant that serves, uh, animal. Penises as That's right.

Andrew:

40 different types. And in luxury, I should tell you, it's, it's about 300 bucks a person. And you're served on gold service and everything is done in private rooms. And you know, the, the Chinese, more so than any other people believe that you eat for health. Um. You eat foods that are supposed to cool you down when it's hot, heat you up when it's cold. Uh, you eat to maintain balance, and to maintain your qi and your yin and yang. We're

Francis:

we're gonna, we're, we're gonna be back after the break and talk about, uh, Andrew Zimmerman's Yin and Yang. Uh, we'll back in just where my yin yang. You're listening to the restaurant guys. 1450 WCTC is 1125, before the break we were talking about the, the penis restaurant. Can you, can you continue to tell us about the penis restaurant?

Andrew:

Sure. It's, uh, Guang Ju is the, is one of the most famous restaurants in Beijing, and, and it's got five or six private rooms. There's no public dining room there. You make a reservation, whether you're two or 20, you're put into a private room.

Mark:

Well, you know, because listen, if you're gonna eat penis, you wanna be in a private room,

Andrew:

you need to be alone, especially given the size of some of them. And you, uh, you, you order, you know, a series of prescription of courses. I started out with a, uh, a soup. That was, uh, a, uh, turtle soup that had a, sorry, a frog soup that had a snake's penis garnishing the top, and then all the way at the back end of the meal, we had a fantastic hot pot. You know that there's, there's, you know, a turtle floating in this giant tub of fantastic broth and vegetables and there's shrimp and other things in there, and out comes a three-tiered platter. With seven different types of penis on it. Um, and it, it was just, it was absolutely staggering. I can tell you that the, the braised, uh, yak penis in the soup was much better than the stir fried spicy deer penis that I had as the course in between. I, I was not a big fan of deer

Francis:

penis. Okay. Now, I, I think that you, you may be leaving some of our listeners in Lurch when you talk about some penises in relation to how good they are in relation to other penises. Yeah. For those of us who've never had it. That at all for frame of reference? Um, uh, what is it? Like, what's it, um, I mean, is it, would you do it again? Is it, is it delicious? Oh, absolutely.

Andrew:

Absolutely. The donkey and yak penis is fantastic. Um, because, and, and I hate to, I hate to use a cliche and I'm not, I, I, I don't intend this to be played for a yuck, although it's very. Funny. Uh, but bigger is better. the larger the, the member, so to speak, um, the, the longer they cook it and the more textures are involved. And so it ends up being a much more tender and, uh, uh, succulent eating experience.

Francis:

And there you have, they

Andrew:

have,

Francis:

go ahead.

Andrew:

You know, it's very cartilage. It's, it's much like, uh, some of the parts of a pig's foot would be with very little, you know, meat and mostly cartilage. you have to remember if any of you have, have, uh, pets at home, those, those dog bullies are sometimes the, actual cartilage part of the penis that. is used as a pet food and that's often what is cooked. So a a something like a deer penis or a seal penis is, is so small in terms of that cartilage, this part that can be cooked, that you actually end up with something that's very, very tough. Interesting.

Francis:

Alright, we'll be back after the news more with Andrew Zimmerman of Andrew Zimmer's. Bizarre Foods You may know Andrew Zimmer from his, uh, blog Chow, and again, which you can find today, andrew zimmer.com. He's also an associate editor in the Dining columnist for Minneapolis St. Paul Magazine, but you probably know him through the Travel Channel's Bizarre Foods with Andrew Zimmer.

Mark:

Andrew, in watching the show, one of the things that I realize is most of the people who you are talking to don't necessarily think their bizarre foods are all that bizarre. Is

Andrew:

that true? Uh, none of them do. Uh, and as a matter of fact, I think that's the gift of the show. One of our intentions, we, we, we never set out to do shock television. What we wanted to do was actually take people into other cultures and explore the foods of those cultures, and along the way. Learn a couple of things. You know when if you try to explain craft American cheese singles to a Kalahari Bushman, they're gonna look at you like you're crazy. By the way. I look at we're crazy.

Mark:

I look at people like they're crazy. Okay. Craft American singles are crazy.

Andrew:

Yeah, I'm an East Coast guy. You guys are on the east coast. You know, when I moved out to Minnesota and everyone was saying on Sundays in church basements, everybody here eats Luta Fisk, which is, you know, dried cod soaked in lie. Then rehydrated for seven days so they can get the poisons out of it. And old white-haired grandmother serve it to you with about a quarter pound of melted butter on it. I thought that's crazy. It's the strangest thing I've ever heard. Why you do that. There's perfectly good fish to be eaten all around you. but more, more ludicrous is eaten in Minnesota than in Norway, Sweden, and Denmark combined. So, you know, you've got these sort of pockets of enthusiasm for foods all over the world, oftentimes right in your own backyard. it's quite amazing how, you know, one man's weird, really is another man's wonderful. Where in the part of the world where you guys are, you have a, a thing that I'm addicted to, thanks to my wife called Taylor Ham.

Speaker 5:

Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

Andrew:

And, and you know, if you start to explain that to somebody, I've tried to explain it here to Minnesotans until they eat it, they're just like, what is, that? Sounds weird.

Francis:

Yeah. It sounds, it's sort of like the, the, the northeast version of Scrapple, but much better. Oh, so much better. So much better. on an English muffin with cheese and an over easy egg. So the egg yolk runs down your leg when you eat the sandwich. They pork, egg, and cheese. There's, I mean that's Deal's. A jersey Diner sandwich.

Andrew:

Exactly. John Bon Jovi's favorite food.

Mark:

Oh, is it really? It's, I did not information, I did not know. I have to say I did not.

Andrew:

I, I got a chance to chat with him about it once at a, at a party. You know, everyone wants to, when you're at a music party, everyone wants to talk to the food guy.

Francis:

Well, now, now you brought up a very, uh, interesting point. What was the name of the food that this, this, the lies soak, salt, cod, that you talked about. Okay. You talk about it being more popular in Minneapolis, uh, in the Minneapolis area than it is in Scandinavia. Correct. And I I think that brings up, there's a, it further buttresses your point about food being inextricably linked to culture. Yes. In that, that's, that's an example of immigrants. Who are trying down the generations to hold on to what makes them special. And so that is a part of their culture. And I think, you know, I'm Irish American and we do a lot of crazy things that, you know, like mm-hmm. You know, go to the St. Patrick's Day parade in Dublin. It's nine guys in a bagpipe walking down, you know, some street go to the St. Patrick's Day parade in New York. Well, and then, you know, you, you've got the, the largest impact day parade in the world. And I think with food we do a similar thing. It's a way to identify ourselves culturally.

Andrew:

Sometimes it's a positive, sometimes it's a negative. And the exploring the stories there is, is fascinating. You, you're absolutely right. I mean, if you go onto the Upper East side of New York and you go over into Yorkville, into some of the old neighborhoods, there's still, there's more Hungarian and German delicatessens there than you know, anywhere else outside of Germany. Um, Germany, it's fascinating and some of the best elements of those cultures are preserved. Go into Chinese restaurants

Speaker 5:

in.

Andrew:

New York and order kung pow chicken, get on a plane with your to-go order and go to Chang Do and order kung pow chicken and eat them side by side. And you can see sometimes how these syncretic dishes as they're transported around the world change. And in some cases, like the kung pow. In talking to chefs in Chengdu, they are absolutely crazy upset that the popularity of the unofficial kung style chicken is gonna dilute kung chicken back home as people return and are. Eager to taste what they've eaten in other countries and not what originated in Chang do

Francis:

now you, is that what you mean when you say, you know, sometimes it works for good and sometimes it works for bad. Is that when you mean it works for bad when things get diluted? How does, how can do bad?

Andrew:

That is, well, that is bad. I think sometimes you're in danger of losing the dish forever. Food is a way to experience history. You know, we talked before on this program the last time that I was on about, there are certain pathways. You know, I'm not arguing for the horse and buggy to come back, although. With the situation with oil in this country, maybe that would be a good thing. But if sometimes if you lose a way of cooking or a style of cooking, it can be lost forever because it's something that has to be, it's like theater. You can never see Marlon Brando and streetcar name, desire again,

Speaker 5:

right

Andrew:

on stage. And I think that as long as we have ways to preserve The traditions, you know, I'm on my way to Sicily. I just was in a pre-production meeting, uh, for a Sicily show. And you know, it's an island. Thank God islands are the best thing for food preservation, art preservation, everything there is so unique, uniquely unique, even given how, localized Italian food is. I'm, you know. Preaching your guys' language to you, but it's, it's so localized that sometimes modernism has a way of destroying and trampling on culture, bearing it under a foot of, of new rubble that sometimes can't be unearthed.

Mark:

And also when you can't learn true cooking, you can't really learn how to make a dish by just reading a recipe out of a book. Correct. That it's taught from one person to the next person to the next person. And that's because it is a, an art, because there is a feel to it that that's. That's how it is.'cause

Francis:

great cooking is not always from a recipe.'cause ingredients are different. And you need to, you need to have the, the cook's palate, like a wine maker's palate. You know, we, that's exactly right. We can follow the recipes for making wine, like they made it, you know, 500 years ago or making wine like they, they used in ancient Greece or Rome, but we're not really sure that's how they did it. Just like we're not sure that's how they pronounced Latin. We can write it, but. Can we speak it? I don't know.

Andrew:

That's exactly right. That's exactly right.

Francis:

You know, it's funny that you talk about an island, an island being great places to preserve cuisine because, uh, there are two things I I, when I look at the cuisines of the world that, you know, we're sort of finding in sort of an original state that is not cosmopolitan.

Mark:

For instance, the food of Long Island.

Francis:

Well, you know, that the, uh, the, that you bring up a good point there because I think that islands and places that have experienced, At least some time of poverty in the modern era, I think are often rich places to have cuisine. Because if places are wealthy enough and cosmopolitan enough, they, they join the world palate. Mm-hmm. You know, and I think that in poor places that they, they're stuck in their own tradition'cause they didn't have a choice. But, you know, thank heaven. Does that that make sense? That that's

Andrew:

right. That's right. And, and remember, poverty equals cooking as well. I mean, in ancient Rome, in the wealthier households, uh, when you look at ancient recipe books, they were eating roasted whole animals and eating primal and center cuts of them. It was in the, you know, it's in the slums of Morocco, you know, in, a thousand years ago that they're learning how to make. You know, soup with just bones and vegetable scraps.

Speaker 5:

Sure.

Andrew:

And it's the same way in our, in, in our kitchens today. You know, there are a lot of great restaurants in this world that I go into and people are like, oh, isn't the food fabulous? This is some of the best cooking I've ever experienced. It's like, this isn't cooking, this is assembling and good purchasing.

Speaker 5:

Mm-hmm.

Andrew:

You know, you know, cooking is different than buying and assembling. And so oftentimes, even when you look at ancient cultures, if they were able to afford imported foods, if they were able, I mean, in, in the 15th century in England, if you had a cinnamon stick in your house, it meant you were a very rich, wealthy man. And that's why cinnamon sticks are in every ancient recipe for roasted goose

Speaker 5:

that you

Andrew:

ever find from. You know, 15th century England all the way through 17th. Um, it wasn't until much later on that they started to look all around them and say, oh, we can use spices and nerves and things that are grown here. Uh, so it, it does work on several different levels. I, I think your theory is, uh, is a solid.

Mark:

So many of your shows are, are focused on the parts of the animals that, that we don't eat in this country. Yep, yep. Or we, we choose not to eat in this country or, well,

Andrew:

we, we do. We eat them in very fancy restaurants now where the snout to tail movement has gained a toehold, but the rest of the world has been eating that way for thousands of years and never stopped. Well,

Mark:

even, even here, we were eating them for thousands of years and then we stopped.

Francis:

That's right. That's right. Well, you know, but I think Andrew Point about. Uh, you know, in the, in wealthy outsides, it's cooking that resides in, in, in large measure, in the poor areas, at least historically. Mm-hmm. Because if you can, when, when the animal is slaughtered, if you're the rich person and you can afford to take the chops, the loin, and go home. Well, all you do is basically season that, heat it up and serve it with some mashes, right? Yeah. Yep. But if you are the poor person and your mother is presented with the intestines and the nose, the Capella, and you better, you better have some talent there to make that taste good. That's right. You know,

Andrew:

that is Exactly, and that's why people are always like, they say, oh, did you really like that? I'm like. Really like it. It was fantastic because when that chef took the, the, the trotters and the liver and the heart and made a, a braise out of it with the, you know, a little bit of bacon and vegetables and wine, it was transcendent. Mm. The guy that took the lamb chops and threw'em on the grill is he didn't have much of a job.

Francis:

Yeah, but, but I'd still like to go over his house if he invited me. I still like lamb chops. Sorry.

Andrew:

You're, you're, you know, you're, you're right. And I, and I know that, I know the point you're making. I mean, because you can extend that argument if you don't, if you don't eat ole in the wintertime, you can't appreciate a perfect tomato in the middle of summer.

Francis:

Absolutely. And it,

Andrew:

it's why, it's why eating with the seasons. Is important to everyone and I make the ar same argument. We should be eating all, you know, if you enlarge your diet, uh, and start, not only will you find new things that you like, but you're also going to be able to appreciate, uh, a lot of different foods, and not. Not remain a kind of jaded eater that expects, uh, you know, chops and, uh, and sliced tomato salads 24 7 365.

Francis:

now, we've been talking about, the, the, the effective wealth on, uh mm-hmm. And class on, on food and food culture. we've been talking about different food cultures valuing different parts of, of an animal, because let's face it, yeah, vegetables are exciting, but animals are really exciting. Yeah. Um, are there any parts of animals that are sort of universally, taboo or is, is the whole animal eaten? Somewhere

Andrew:

the whole animal is eaten somewhere. I mean, even, I mean, you know, people always say, well, you know, the bile from, you know, different organs isn't eaten. It's like, oh, contraire. I mean, I just, I just had it in Samoa and Hawaii with some tribal people that use it to season the soup.

Francis:

Oh, okay. You got, you gotta share with me. How does that work exactly?

Andrew:

Uh, they actually stir the bile in and during the last couple minutes of cooking, and they actually, they, they love that sour off. Flavor. Huh?

Mark:

Do you, do you think that the American palate is bland compared to the rest of the world? Oh, absolutely. That we look for, for bland or type foods than the rest of the world.

Andrew:

It, it's not that we look for bland or it's, it's just that there's, we've lost, we're only a couple hundred years old and you know, as you accurately put, there was a time in this country where we ate everything, but we've lost such a connect. We. In this country, we put convenience and luxury so far high up on our cultural totem that we lose perspective on the possibilities of what to do. Mm-hmm. With the rest of our. Our food life. I mean, it's not, I mean, it's, it's almost a self-fulfilling process prophecy that we're neutering it when you, I mean, it's the two things that kill great food, sp speed and convenience. It doesn't mean that there's not, you know, good eating that could be had by something that's fast. Um, it's just that those are two universal killers. And I, I think it's, I think it's damaged us to a great degree. You know, we also are obsessed with. The new here, uh, you know, in Italy, I've got Italy on the brain'cause I'm, I'm going there in a week. you know, in Italy they, they worship the new, I mean, there's, there's more Nova Cucina and progressive cooking going on in Italy than just about anywhere else in the world. But those, those chefs who are doing even, uh, the Italians that are getting into molecular gastronomy, uh, and, you know, putting. Spaghetti bolognas into a, into a jelly bean are still not playing around with, you know, lobster or more cane. I mean, they're still putting spaghetti bolognas into a, into a jelly bean. They're still cooking their food from their region right from their season.

Mark:

But the re but the reverent of a tradition and reverend of that's.

Andrew:

Yeah, that's exactly right. In this country, and I, and I, I mean, you guys are, are restaurant people and you know, so you know it as well as anyone else. I can't tell you how many young people I meet with who come outta cooking school. They did a stage and a fancy restaurant and they think they can become a chef and the first thing they want to do is they wanna start experimenting.

Speaker 5:

Mm-hmm. The

Andrew:

other night I was, I was. Listen, I was watching Top Chef, one of my favorite shows, and Tom Collicchio said something that I wish they had just frozen the tape and then replayed it again. He said, if you wanna cook in a contemporary modern style, you have to know the classics.

Francis:

Yeah.

Andrew:

And it's really true. I mean, the French impressionist painters, uh, who were the first to kind of break out of the historical life painting mode were the greatest draftsmen in the world. They, they were like folk realists. They had such great skill'cause they learned it as they had called a boar. But it wasn't until you could draw the. The, the human hand in perfect form that you could begin to experiment with their impressions of the human form. And it's the same thing with food. We, we don't know ourselves, we've lost, everyone wants what they want and they want it. Now, it's the king Baby syndrome. And young chefs are too desperate to become a superstar today as opposed to learning a. You know, the skillset that will allow them to create a career where they have the opportunity to be a superstar later on.

Mark:

We, we've actually talked about that with Tom and some other great chef, a guy in in Chicago by Iran Atkins. Sure. And, and that's exactly what we talked about, that you need to know the traditions and the, the basics and the building blocks, because those are the building blocks from which you can experiment if you don't That's right. If you don't have those basics, you're

Francis:

just a kid playing around the kitchen. You're

Mark:

just a kid playing around with this, with this chemistry set.

Andrew:

Right. Thomas Keller, who I worked for for two years, told me, he said, there is a right way and a wrong way to cook everything. And what he meant was he didn't say there's the only way.

Speaker 5:

Mm-hmm. His

Andrew:

point was, once you know how to roast a chicken, you can then roast it a million different ways, but you gotta learn how to roast it first. I've, I've experienced that with, I. With coconut grubs, you know, they don't know how to cook'em in the Philippines, even though it's a part of their diet, but they sure do know how to cook'em in Ecuador, where they grill'em. I mean, there's a right way and a wrong way to clean'em and prepare'em. And it doesn't matter whether you're dining in a jungle, sitting on an earth and floor eating grubs, or whether you're in a French, uh, Parisian temple of gastronomy. Uh, you know, good cooking is still good cooking at the end of the day. It's gotta taste. Right.

Mark:

Well, well, it matters a little.

Francis:

Well, Andrew, I tell you every time we talk to you for an hour, it feels like I, you know, I, I've left three hours untalked, so I hope you'll come back and join us again. I.

Andrew:

Anytime you guys wanna have me on, let's, let's set it up because I love, uh, it works both ways. I love it myself,

Francis:

super. Andrew Zimmer, and you have to check out his show on the Travel channel Bazaar Foods with Andrew Zimmer. Also go to andrew zimmer.com. You can link there through restaurant guys radio.com. We'll be back in just a moment. Hey everybody. Welcome back. It's Mark and Francis, the restaurant guys, and, uh, Andrew Zimmer just won't hang up the phone. Actually, I, I'm like a bad

Andrew:

cold. I refuse to go away. Are you guys ever gonna come to Minnesota?

Mark:

You, you know, I have some friends that I just spent the weekend with who are, who here? Here back east, who live in Minnesota and they have invited me out there to do some ice fishing in Minnesota.

Andrew:

Do not say yes. It's a kiss of death. Well, it's boring. Here's the thing. Well, no, no, it's not that it's boring. It's just that Minnesotans love to mess around with folks like you. And so they say, yeah, come out for some ice fishing, and they drag. I mean, I, I really shouldn't say that. Winter is gorgeous up here. We go up to my in-laws lake home. We snowmobile, we ice fish, we go out hunting. It's, it's it, you go wolf watching, it's fantastic, but. May through November. Minnesota is America's paradise, and it's the best kept secret in the country when it, I mean, you come out here, I mean, it's not called Land of a thousand Lakes for nothing. You can't, you can't get out into the Adirondacks unless you know someone who's got a great house up here. The whole state looks like that, and it's just paradise.

Mark:

Wow. Well, I'll tell you my, my friends do have a bit of a droll sense of humor, so, so I could see them basically leaving me out in the middle of a river to finish my,

Andrew:

well, even if you. Even if you come in winter, you, we'll, we'll go to my in-laws house. We'll get on the snowmobiles. We'll go eat a good meal. We'll, we cook food in the fireplace. It's a lot of fun.

Francis:

Alright, so if you hear us, uh, running repeats one week, you'll know we're in Minnesota. We're in Minnesota. Snowmobile

Mark:

and not ice fishing.

Andrew:

Exactly. Uh, exactly.

Francis:

Well, Andrew, it's, it's been a blast. Uh, if I come out, it will not be ice fishing, that's for sure. Thanks, sir. Please

Andrew:

come out for the Minnesota State Fair. That's an eating orgy, the likes of which you never Well, that sounds like a blast.

Mark:

I'm a huge fan of eating orgy.

Andrew:

Well listen. Oh, we love that.

Francis:

Andrew. If you don't hang up this time, you're gonna have to come on the next show after the news and that show's not even about food.

Andrew:

See you guys later. Alright, bye-bye.

Francis:

Andrew Zimmer. You can check him out@andrewzimmerman.com. I tell. I did go ice fishing with my dad when I was a kid. I used to. Fish with my dad, hunt with my dad and go ice fishing with my dad. Yeah. On Lake of Pcon in Northern New Jersey. Uh, the most boring thing I ever did in my life. And cold and cold at that. And we put the little thing in the ice and we drilled out the hated my life. We did that. Hunting Awesome. Ice fishing. No, I, I, I agree with Andra on that one. All right. Well, I hope you've enjoyed your hour with the restaurant guys. Uh, I, sir. I know we certainly have. I'm Francis Shot. And I'm Mark Pascal. We are the restaurant guys. 1450 WCTC. The time is 12 noon.