The Restaurant Guys' Regulars

Kim Haasarud/Jeanne Kelley: Sangria and Blue Eggs *V*

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The Restaurant Guys' Regulars

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This is Vintage Selection from 2008

The Banter

The Guys talk about a civilized way to get groomsmen looking good for the wedding that doesn’t involve a trip to the spa. 

The First Conversation

The Restaurant Guys hear from Kim Haasarud, author and mixologist, who gives advice on sangria. They talk about which wines work best, how to get the most out of the fruit and the best ways to implement it at a party. 

The Second Conversation

The Restaurant Guys talk with Jeanne Kelley about her experiences with urban gardening –complete with chickens and a goat! She shares her joy of composting, the best kitchen tool she’s ever used and a secret ingredient that’s one of The Guys’ favorites. 

Bios

Kim Haasarud is an award-winning mixologist, author, and founder of Liquid Architecture, a consulting firm known for crafting innovative cocktail programs. She is the author of the best-selling 101 Cocktails series and has been featured in The Wall Street Journal, Wine Enthusiast, and Cosmopolitan.

 A former National President of the United States Bartenders Guild, Kim also co-founded The Cocktail Collaborative.

Jeanne Kelley is a Los Angeles–based cookbook author, food writer specializing in seasonal, sustainable cooking. She trained at the esteemed École de Cuisine La Varenne in Paris.

Jeanne is the author of several cookbooks, including Salad for Dinner, The Portable Feast, and Blue Eggs and Yellow Tomatoes: A Backyard Garden-to-Table Cookbook.  Her work has been featured in publications such as Bon Appétit, Cooking Light, Fine Cooking, and Everyday with Rachael Ray. She also contributed to Williams Sonoma’s Holiday Baking collection. 


Info

Kim Hassarud

https://www.liquid-architecture.com/


Jeanne Kelley

https://www.jeannekelleykitchen.com/

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Mark:

Good morning, mark. Hey Francis, how are you? I'm well. How are you this morning? I'm doing great. I got to have a lovely dinner with a bunch of very close friends last night. Some really good food, some really exceptional wine.

Francis:

We had a little dinner at the restaurant. I had the gentleman who were in my, uh, my groomsmen. And our partner Lou, come join us for dinner at our own restaurant last night. Fun Busman's holiday.

Mark:

It was big fun. It was big fun. Although, I have to say we were a little raucous. I think we might have offended some of the other tables that were close by. We were, oh, maybe they'll write a letter. Kinda allowed. Maybe they'll write a letter to the owner.

Francis:

Well, we, it was in, the reason we got together last night that I, I think is interesting is I, we got together with Mon Taylor. Mm-hmm. A guy named Michael Deru of Michael Derulo years. Um, we should have him on the show. Sure. Um, and what we've decided to do is not. In my, in our wedding. I'm not asking the bridal party to wear formal attire, no tuxedos. Um, we're just gonna go a little more casual. We're gonna go with a jacket and pants, but I, I want,

Mark:

well, you know, I think that there, the reason for that might be what? That. You sometimes have to wear a tuxedo for work. So if you have to also wear one for your wedding, then it seems you're mixing work and wedding too much.

Francis:

You know, it all. It also comes down to, I know it's become the modern convention for the bridal party to be in formal attire. Mm-hmm. While everybody else at the wedding is, is in semi-formal atti. I've always found that to be strange and I, and I, I aesthetically, I I don't dig it.

Mark:

Did you find it strange when you were in my wedding party and you did it? Yeah, I did, but I was, but I was good. Thanks for that. And I kept, and I kept it quiet until now, now 15 years later. Sorry. Sorry. I thought this is dumb. Sorry. Thanks very much for that. So you mean the fact that in tuxedos basically were us, uh, the, the bridal and, and groomsmen parties and the. String quartet. Yeah, that's it. That's, those are the people, people in tuxedo.

Francis:

Well, you know, I just, I, I, I've been to a couple of black tie weddings, uh, in beautiful places in the city. Very elegant. But, you know, not everybody owns a tuxedo, so you're asking all of your guests who don't own a tuxedo to go rent a tuxedo and all the women to go buy a dress. That's, that's, you know, unless you're, you're dealing with a set of people that, you know, wears a tuxedo every once a month, several times a year. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we do for work and events that we attend, but most people don't. So. I, I didn't want to do that. The black tie thing. Mm-hmm. And I think it's fine to do, especially since we're gonna get married outside, uh, to do this, the semi-formal thing, but we wanted the groomsmen to coordinate. And I'm having a suit that's different from the groomsmen and the, the groomsmen all have jackets and pants that sort of make sense together. It'll look nice in a wedding photo. Um, but. What we're having done is I just, I got everyone to come together. You know, you can always bribe people with food and wine. It works out great. It does work every time. Um, every time. And, and Michael, the Taylor came, it seems like a very old world thing, Mike, the, the Taylor came and just measured everybody that when they were there, so people didn't have to go piecemeal down to Michael's. Shop

Mark:

right. One at a time. Each person went down to, to the room and got measured by Michael, while the rest of us kind of enjoyed hor d'oeuvres and cocktails.

Francis:

Well, and they either making clothes for mm-hmm. For, for you guys. And one of the things I thought about in making this choice was. You know, the jacket, shirt and pants that all you guys are gonna buy is more expensive than renting a tuxedo would be

Mark:

significantly.

Francis:

However, at the end of renting a tuxedo, you give the tuxedo back.

Mark:

Yes, except I own a tuxedo. Well, but yeah.

Francis:

But in my way, if I did the normal thing, you wouldn't be allowed to wear. Right. I'd have a different, I, I would tux. My tuxedo would, my tuxedo would be else. I could wear a sky blue Peter Brady tuxedo with a, with a ruffled shirt if I wanted, and you have to wear it.

Mark:

Big fan of the sky blue ruffled shirt. I, I'm so sorry to be missing out on that. Um.

Francis:

But at the end of, at the end of this, there is an expense, but basically I, I've asked you to buy a jacket, pants and a shirt. Presumably at some point you were going to buy a jacket, pants and a shirt.

Mark:

Yes. But I can no longer wear this jacket tie in shirt anywhere that any of the other groomsmen might be.

Francis:

You could accidentally want looking like a, like a barbershop quartet somewhere. If you're

Mark:

not for fear, for fear of, uh, the, the. The possibility that one of our friends will also be say, oh, I can wear that. That looks so good on me. You

Francis:

have other friends that you can wear it with? I guess I do, but one of the things that struck me that I really like is I. I go to a tailor now. Mm-hmm. And I, I have kind of a large neck, so off the rack's clothes don't fit me very well.

Mark:

I have a large neck, but a large everything else. So it, so off the rack clothes fit me a little bit? No,

Francis:

it's, it's, it's sort of if my, if, if the shirt fits me in the neck, I'm, uh, I'm wearing a parachute. Mm-hmm. And if the shirt fits my body, I can't button it. So I,

Mark:

I'm wearing a parachute as well. Unfortunately, the parachute actually hits so sorry about that.

Francis:

Nothing. I, not my fault. So, but we're partially your fault. You're wrong, but you're right. What I've done though is. I started getting shirts custom made by Michael. Mm-hmm. And they're great and they're really reasonable. They get you, if I get 10 done at a time, they're, they're pretty, they're pretty reasonable and they're lovely shirts and they fit. Mm-hmm. Because for years, I, I had shirts fit right. And now I'm buying more and more of my clothes from this one guy, and it's a very old fashioned, old world way to do things because now he knows what I want. Mm-hmm. And, and he'll do anything from, you know, from, for my wedding. He's making me a custom made suit but I've bought suits from him off the well. He has the rack suits off. The rack suits, and pretty much he has my measurements. And I call him up and I say, Hey, listen, I need five shirts, three pairs of pants, two sweaters, and they come in the mail.

Mark:

Actually, you know what I like? That is really what he does is he is, he matches your suit and your tie and your shirt. Like the gar animals. Yeah. And so you come to work like, Hey, that all really goes together. Well, great job.

Francis:

And the other thing he does that, that I find is really interesting, I, I, I, it's not really about food, but it is the finer things in life. It is indeed the finer things in life. I, and I'm new to this world. I've been buying from him for a couple of years now. And, um, he keeps a record of everything that I've bought so he knows what's in my closet. And he actually came over and looked in my closet and sort of did a survey of what I have. Mm-hmm. So he know and he is got a great memory for all this stuff. And so I email him sort of what I want and. if he needs anything from me, he actually comes to my work and it, or, or he'll meet me wherever. And I find this very old fashioned. Mm-hmm. Um, and very pleasant. A very, very pleasant way to do business. What

Mark:

I liked about last night, and that was great that we got together and you, you got to. Um, basically get, get, take care of the business of the, of the evening, which was, which was getting fitted for, for our clothes, for the, for the wedding. Uh, what I liked about it more was, uh, and you talk about, or old world, was you got all your closest friends together and we sat around and what could have been kind of a, a perfunctory. 45 minutes, let's get this thing done and then go back to the rest of our lives, became a four and a half hour meal and discussion about politics and food and wine and, and everything else you could possibly think of, but it, but you, you took the opportunity of we need to do this thing together to get your friends together and to share a meal and to share some wine. And to talk about something's important and something's not important. And I, and I just in the world today, I don't see enough of that. There isn't enough of that happening, of taking those opportunities to say, you know what? We have to accomplish this thing. Let's accomplish it. And at the same time, let's, let's get together.

Francis:

You know, I found this whole wedding planning thing and, um, the, the guest we had on the show wrote a book about the wedding industry. Mm-hmm. A one perfect day. Mm-hmm. You should go look at that. Up in the restaurant guys, radio archives. It's a great show to listen to. And, and I'm, you know, I've sort of known all that stuff all along. We're being in the business. Yeah, I have some connections that make things easier. I have a staff of people who work in restaurants mm-hmm. Who make things easier for me in this wedding planning thing. But besides that, we, Jennifer and I, are just not engaging in a lot of the stuff that people feel they have to engage in. Mm-hmm. And the wedding planning has really not been very much of a headache. You know. Well, you're

Mark:

also not quite to the end yet, those last couple weeks, and you're all Yeah. But I know people trying to make it stress

Francis:

about it and fight about it for a year. You're right. And there's no reason for that. And we're just making, let your wife have whatever she wants. Yes. Number one. And number two, we just want to have a venue where people can come together, enjoy the day, have good music and good food, and I want the groomsmen and the bridesmaids to look good. And that's it. And, and those are the things that are really, you might wanna

Mark:

choose some different, uh, groomsmen.

Francis:

Yeah, exactly. Well, we look as good as they can. We'll be back in just a moment. You're listening to the Restaurant guys. Hey everybody, welcome back. You're listening to the Restaurant guys, mark and Francis of Stage left, and Catherine Lombardi. Our guest today is Kim Hasser Road. She's written several books, 101 Margaritas, 101 Martinis, and 101 Sangrias. And picture drinks.

Mark:

Hi Kim. How are you? That's like 303 drinks.

Speaker 10:

Yeah. Three. Three. Yeah. Yeah. My husband's a lucky guy. The, uh, the taste tester.

Francis:

So now you have your own firm, liquid architecture, you're sort of an architect of drinks. How does that work?

Speaker 10:

Right. You know, I do a lot of, um, a lot of drink development for various, you know, liquor brands as well as restaurant groups, hotel chains, and kind of introducing mixology. And, you know, really incorporating fresh ingredients into the beverage program.

Francis:

So, I mean, sangria would be like the fresh ingredients, incorporated poster, child of drinks. So talk, talk to us about sangrias.

Speaker 10:

Yeah, I love sangrias. I mean, you know, a, a traditional sangria is, you know, it's basically a wine punch. It's red wine with, uh, fresh fruit, some kind of modifier, like a brandy and some kind of bleeding agent, like sugar. And you know, there really is no. Perfect sangria recipe. And what I like to do is really use kind of the fruit as the driving force. Um, so for example, you know, taking a trip to your local farmer's market or grocery store and kind of seeing, you know, what fruits and ingredients look fresh and, you know, build a sangria around that and kind of use that as your. As you're driving force and foundation,

Mark:

you know, Kim, as a kid, I remember going to my grandfather's house and he, it wasn't a, a true sangria, but when peaches, when he had peaches that weren't ripe enough or he didn't suspect they were gonna get rip enough, he would drop them into kind of a simple red wine and just let the, the peaches soak in that red wine. And you know, as a kid, I. I generally got more peaches than I did of the red wine, but still there was, there was some serious red wine in there and you know, using fruits in wine. We've been doing this for a long time.

Speaker 10:

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, even though RIAs kind of have roots in Spain, you know, it'd be hard to imagine the sangrias really not, you know, being, it's hard to imagine RIAs not being around, you know, the wines were, you know. First discovered, you know, that someone actually dropped some fruit and some wine. You know, I don't think that's the too, too much of a, a novel idea. Um, but, you know, being able, you know, to your point of being able to put, you know, any kinds of fruit in there and, you know, I think the wines and the sugar element will actually kind of make. The, um, the fruit's a little bit sweeter and kind of seep into the wine, you know, um, a little easier making for kind of a fruit forward.

Francis:

You know, I have, I have to say, I'm a, I'm a, a pretty big fan of, of Sangria and our, our business partner, uh, his, his, uh. Uh, parents are originally from, he's, he's born in Cuba and his, his parents were born in, in Spain, in Gia. And, uh, he makes a pretty mean sangria. Um, so I've been kind of spoiled, but I've been to bars and restaurants where they'll just take some fruit and throw it in red wine. That, that doesn't quite as sangria make, does it? You need the brandy and the soaking, don't you?

Speaker 10:

Yeah. You know, I think ideally, you know, you wanna make a sangria ahead of time, you know, I ideally the, a night before in advance and, you know, just. Regarding the wines, you know, I, I. Don't think that you should use an expensive wine, but I think that you should use a decent wine, you know, I mean, off the rack, reds kind of in the, you know, in the$10 range, um, maybe even a little bit less expensive than that are perfect.

Mark:

Um, well, we, we say, we say all the time, don't, don't cook with a wine you wouldn't drink. Certainly don't make sangria with a wine you wouldn't drink.

Speaker 10:

Uh, absolutely. No, no, no. You definitely wanna have, you know, a great wine is really gonna be, you know, hold up to a lot of those fruits, but at the same time, you don't really wanna go. Too expensive because, you know, some of those wines that are, you know, these, these great Bordeauxs, these great wines, you know, like in the, the$40 range and up, you know, what makes those wines so great are some of its natural, you know, subtleties, right? The nuance, you know, little flavors that you pick up on the mouth feel and the texture. And when you mix it with fruit and, and you know, spirits and, you know juices, you kind of lose some of those subtleties. So, um, you know, what makes a great wine really good is, you know. It is not, doesn't really translate that well into a sangria. Not

Mark:

necessarily what makes a great sangria. Great.

Speaker 10:

Right, right, right, right.

Francis:

Well now, so what are your, what are your big tips for making Sangria in addition to making it the night before, if you can, what are your tips on making Sangria.

Speaker 10:

Um, it's actually a couple things. You know, as far as the, the types of wines to use when you're making a red sangria, you know, it, it's great, great to use a really hearty wine like a Rioja or a rah or a sangiovese, something that's really gonna hold up to the fruit. When I made this book, I actually experimented with a lot of different wines and, um, you know. Wines like Pinot, no. Noir seem to be a little, a little too delicate for sangria. Didn't really hold up as well, but, um, you know, to kind of use a hardy wine is, um. A strong point also to definitely use fresh ingredients, um, and some kind of sweetening agent, like a, a simple syrup or even a flavored syrup. Um, and if you're going to make it the night before where it has hours to kind of infuse into the wine, you don't need to add as much sugar. It will actually get sweeter the longer you let it sit there. Um, if you're gonna make it just a few hours in advance, you will need a little more sugar to kind of help that. Um. Uh, help the fruits actually infuse into the wine a little bit more. Um,

Mark:

one of the, one of the tricks, my, my partner, in the restaurant, mine and Francis' third partner that we were just talking about, uh, does, is he soaks the fruit in the brandy before he puts all of those things into the wine. just to kind of turn the octane of the, of the cocktail up a little bit. Uh, have, have you, have you ever had any experience doing that?

Speaker 10:

Yeah. In fact, I think one of the recipes, I actually may, I think I soak some of the berries in, in Graham Manet, if you wanna make it, um, a little bit stronger, you know, one kind of trick that I do if I don't really have a lot of time to make a sangria to kind of start what I call the fruit bleed into the drink, is they may sure. Sort of slightly macerate the fruit. I don't wanna, you know, muddle it or, or, you know, make it really mushy, but just kind of slightly macerate it to, to just start the bleed, uh, faster into the drink. another good tip is when you're cutting the fruit, um, especially citrus fruit, is to score the skin. And to cut them into some, you know, unique shapes like, you know, wheels or half wheels, or, you know, even using cookie cutters, you know, like in the shape of the star circles, if you wanna kinda have some fun ideas with apples or pineapples, you know, to make it a little more, uh, visually enhancing.

Francis:

We're talking with Kim Hasbro about her new book, a hundred and Ones GR and Picture Drinks. Now with 101 Kim, there have to be some that are kinda, I don't know, maybe a little less expected Sangrias. What was your, what was your hundred and first sangria?

Speaker 10:

Um, uh, you know, I really get, I get pretty crazy in the book and really kind of, uh, stretch the boundaries a bit. And I use things like hibiscus tea, um, and saki and uh, lemon cello into the, uh, sangria and that's kind of hits home the fact that there really is no right or wrong way to make a sangria. you know, really. The door is really wide open as far as using lots of different various fruits, you know, from cherries to guava to papaya, to blackberries to different spirits, you know, ranging from rum to saki to sweet oo and cordial. So I think, you know, really the sky's the limit.

Mark:

Yeah. My recommendation there is though, try some of these things in small quantities.'cause how many times have I been to a party and somebody's made, you know, four gallons of something and said, oh, that didn't come out the way I wanted

Francis:

it to. Yeah. Now, but do you, do you find that. Punches and sangrias and pitcher drinks are finding a resurgence.

Speaker 10:

I do. I mean, you know, it's this whole mixology movement and using fresh ingredients. Um, uh, you know, I'm definitely seeing kind of, you know, at least in the restaurant and, you know, hotel chain world that, you know, it's a, it's a very profitable, um, drink mechanism at the bar. And it's also very, you know. Easy to execute and, um, fresh. I mean, you can really kind of use whatever's in your walk-in coolers and kind of incorporate that into a fresh. Fresh punch or sangria. And, and

Mark:

when you're at a party and you're hosting a party and you're, you're in your house, these, using these ingredients this way, using fresh ingredients, well, it's very time consuming. So making a, a sangria or a punch or something like that is a great way to kind of free yourself up to, to do the rest of the party and still ha be using fresh ingredients and, and really good ingredients and have a, a cocktail there ready for everybody to drink.

Speaker 10:

Right. You know, and, and, you know, and. Having a party at home. I think a lot of people feel a lot of stress like, oh my God, I need to have every type of spirit out there. What if someone wants an apple martini? What if somebody wants a cosmopolitan? Whereas if you take like a sangria and use incorporate fresh ingredients, you know you can do one drink and do it really well.

Francis:

Well, and it's also perfectly acceptable I think in Francis's book of gets to say, oh, I'm sorry, that's the neighbor's party. Why don't you go see if they have an apple martini? We have sangria. Uh, Kim Hasbro's book is 101 101 Sangrias and Pitcher drinks. Uh, you can find out more about it at our website, restaurant guys radio.com. Thanks being the show, Kim.

Speaker 10:

Okay, thanks.

Francis:

Uh, Jeannie Kelly is a contributing editor at Bon Appetit Magazine for a long time. Uh, she, uh, has written a new book called Blue Eggs and Yellow Tomatoes, recipes from a Modern Kitchen Garden.

Mark:

Jeannie, welcome to the show.

Francis:

Thank you. So what's with the Blue Eggs man? Is that a are, aren't those robin's eggs? Well, why, why blue eggs?

Speaker 11:

No, those are actual chicken eggs. Um, I have aana chickens in my backyard and they lay eggs that are that beautiful pale blue color.

Mark:

Yeah. We actually have a, a local farm here in Central Jersey that's been here for hundreds of years, actually called Sudan Farms. And they do blue eggs and green eggs and brown eggs and white eggs and uh, it's all interesting.

Speaker 11:

Yeah, talk to, I mean, they taste the same as the brown eggs, but you know, it's just kind of fun.

Francis:

It's like, it's like Easter all the time. So well talk to us about your book and, and talk to us about a kitchen garden. Now you live in a city or in an urban environment?

Speaker 11:

I live in the city, yes. I mean, I, I live basically about 10 minutes from downtown Los Angeles, but Los Angeles being kind of an odd, sprawling city. There are little pockets where you have. Space and I, I don't have much space, but I'm on a hillside and so I do have this little tiny spot at the back of my hill where I keep my chickens and my pet goat. And then at the bottom of my street, which is about 50 yards from my house, um, there's a community garden where I. Keep my kitchen garden.

Mark:

That's great. I have to say though, here in central Jersey you are frowned upon if you have a goat.

Francis:

Yeah. They're not crazy about the chickens either. Talk to us about keeping animals in, in an urban environment.

Speaker 12:

Um, well, it's legal, right? But they, which is

Speaker 11:

important. Um, it's, there's something really great about chickens. I mean, the goat, the goat is kind of. Fun. It's more of a conversational piece, and she's great for weeding, but the chickens are great because they provide me with the most wonderful eggs.

Speaker 9:

Mm-hmm. The eggs

Speaker 11:

are so fresh and so delicious, and it's really kind of worked into this whole system that we have of the gardening and the composting and all the little green bits of scraps from the garden that I feed, the chicken, and then the chicken manure that goes into the compost, and then the compost and then the garden. So I feel like I've created this great little. Natural kind of farmer cycle right here in the city.

Mark:

Your own little circulatory system working Right, right there. My, my dad had a little farm like that up, up in upstate New York when I was a kid, and, and we got to see all of that. But the, the, the part that you just touched on that, that is rings so true to me besides the composting and, and everything having a purpose is how great the eggs tasted when they were fresh. When they were really a, a fresh egg. Most people in this country never really eat a fresh egg.

Speaker 11:

No. There's really no comparison between the egg that I get from the chicken to the egg at the supermarket. It's just they look different. They taste different. They act

Mark:

different in the pan. They, the shelves are different. You, I mean, yeah.

Speaker 11:

They,

Speaker 12:

they do that funny thing, you know, with the yolk just stands up so high and, mm-hmm. Oh, it's just, it's so good.

Francis:

So now talk to us about this lovely book that you've written. It's, it's, it is a large coffee table book with pictures, and I think a lot of people find, um, pictures very helpful in, in a cookbook. Why do we need a cookbook specifically about our kitchen garden?

Speaker 11:

Well, I, I try not to see the book as specifically about the kitchen garden. For me, those are just little additions to what I see. Mostly as a collection of really good recipes. Um, I've been, you know, working, writing. Cooking articles for magazines for years. I do a lot of work for cooking light, a lot of work for Bon Appetit. So I, and I used to work as a recipe tester, so I, I know how to make a recipe that works and I just started kind of compiling recipes over time of things that I just really felt were things I wanted to make over and over again. Things that I felt cook should have in their repertoire. So I, I made this collection of recipes and then I felt like, well, gee, part of cooking is also, I mean, for me personally, is also this idea of the growing gleaning process too. So I just felt like if this is gonna be a, a guide for people to cook, it should also provide something else. And there is this kind of fun aspect of having the growing guide. And then the little chicken keepers guide. And certainly by all means, if you don't have any intention

Speaker 12:

to

Speaker 11:

start a kitchen garden or raise chickens, uh, the, the book is still a great collection of recipes.

Mark:

Well, and also, I, I think that one of the things that, that you're neglecting in, in, uh, talking about your own book is. Something that I love when a, when a book includes is here's what you need to stock your pantry in order to make the things that, that I'm laying out for you. Here's what go shopping, here's the salts you should buy. The kinds of salt, the kind of flour, all those, all the things that you need to put in your pantry before you can start going because, uh, for me, the most frustrating thing is. It's six o'clock at night. I, I've bought the basic ingredients that I need to, to make a recipe and I start leafing through and realize, oh, I don't have the, whatever ingredient, the right kind of salt

Francis:

can I share, can I share with you? That happened to me last night. I was going to make, um, cornbread. I got this wonderful cast iron, uh, cookware that I used to make cornbread in the oven and I had a new recipe for it. and I didn't look at it carefully and I started the recipe and then it said, and then put in the buttermilk. And I thought, I, I don't, I don't have buttermilk, I have butter, I have milk. Uh

Speaker 11:

oh. Well, you know, buttermilk keeps forever, so I just buy it all the time. When I buy milk, I buy buttermilk because it's just. I don't know. It just seems like it doesn't go bad. You know,

Francis:

I, I work in the restaurant business, right? So I'm, I'm not home Most nights everything

Mark:

goes bad in Francis's fridge. Look, jelly goes bad in Francis's fridge. Look in my

Francis:

refrigerator and there's jelly. There's a couple of beers and some mustard. Oh,

Speaker 11:

I know. It's, that's hard when you're working in a restaurant kitchen to have, find the gumption to work in your own kitchen. But yet, no. To get back to the idea of, of a pantry guide, I do hear that refrain from people. They go, how do you just whip this stuff up? Just make this. And I'm like, well, because I've got, I've got the olives and I've got the, the, you know, my tomato paste and I have pomegranate molasses. You know, these things are the staples. They're just there. Mm-hmm. You know, and, and I do feel that, that so many young people these days, they're not getting any assistance in how to. Learn how to stock a, a pantry. It's just not common sense anymore. And so, well, I felt like I wanted to provide that.

Francis:

And speaking from experience, when you do wanna be a, uh, have, be a good cook at home, one of the disadvantages to the way that, that I, I have lived for the last many years working in a restaurant is I get a night off and then I work five or six nights, and then I get a night off. When you are cooking at home a couple of nights a week, what what should happen is you can have that pantry, you can have that larder stock. So you pull a couple of things down. Um, and you know, you also have leftovers from the night before that, and

Mark:

you can do things in advance for your event two days from now.

Francis:

Right. So now the, your cooking book also, one of the things I like about it is you talk about keeping a pale in the kitchen for, uh, and composting.

Speaker 11:

Yes.

Francis:

Talk to us about composting.

Speaker 11:

Composting is so easy and so important. I just, I recently went on a little trip. My niece got married in Nevada and. I just was a, I just was appalled, you know, at the, the amount of waste that that was just happening from a family living in a house for a few days because there was no compost. Pile, there was no recycling, there were no dogs.

Speaker 9:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 11:

And I mean, I just, I hate waste. And so, you know, my dogs eat any kind of protein, meat leftovers, and the, the chickens and the goat get all of the little like garden scraps. And then anything that, I don't want the chickens and the goat to eat onion skins, coffee grounds eggshells. Citrus, you know, green scraps that they wouldn't eat. That all goes into my compost pile. And a compost pile is just a wonderful way to reduce. The amount of waste that you put into the landfill, and also you get a wonderful benefit from it because it makes such a great additive to your soil for your garden.

Mark:

You would be amazed at how many things can go in that compost as well. I mean, your grass clippings, your egg shells, there's coffee grinds, all kinds of things that just end up in your garbage end up in your, in your compost. But one thing I, I wanted to say, Jeannie is. When I was a kid, I was about 12 years old and I was very excited'cause,'cause my dad got a dog, Uhhuh. And then I realized, then I realized exactly what you said. The reason he got a dog is because he was born in, in a war torn World War II and didn't wanna waste any food. Yeah. So he got that dog strictly to be a, a consumer of, of, of the, what would've been wasted food.

Speaker 12:

Well, I hope the dog became your pal.

Mark:

It did indeed. I don't know that it was his pal, but it was mine for sure.

Francis:

You know, Jeannie, this is a beautiful book. It's a coffee table book, and the pictures are gorgeous. What, why, first of all, why did you, decide to have it, the pictures be so integral to this book, and, and how did you select the, the. What pictures to go there and how to style of food?

Speaker 11:

Well, I was very lucky in the fact that I had a great art director at Running Press books. Her name is Francis Ing Chow, and she just was fantastic. So a lot of the vision and, and the design is her concept. Um, one of the things that I had the benefit of doing was I was the food stylist for the book. And a lot of, uh, cookbook authors don't style food, or even if they do, they don't have the opportunity to do that. And for me, I got to fly to Philadelphia. And stay there for about 10 days. And we did about eight to 10 shots a day and we did all of the food photography there. So, um, so

Mark:

you got to match your own food with your own, uh, style Exactly. Stylistically the way you wanted it to be.

Speaker 11:

Exactly. Because, you know, I had a, you know, I have a certain aesthetic the way I like your vision Yeah. To, to present food. And so that was really exciting for me to get to, to, to make the food and have it look, you know. The way I like it to look. Now,

Francis:

let, let's talk about that because we obviously, you know, we run a couple of restaurants and, and we. Have food that's has to be photographed at some point to, to show to the public. Food styling is very interesting. There are a lot of rules to how to make food look good in a picture. It's not the

Mark:

same as how to make it look good on a plate for, for eating necessarily.

Francis:

Why? Why don't you talk to us about how things that photographers need to do to make food look the proper, the way it should look in the photograph?

Speaker 11:

Well, you know, it's changing a lot. It used to be that they would do food styling and the food was very fake. They would always coat things and paint things and make things very kind of plastic. And now I think with just, uh, probably the whole techno technology of photography being so advanced, photographers can be so fast now. They don't have to spend hours on lighting and this and that. They can just get it done. And so for me, you know, all the food was totally natural. Um, the one trick that I did every once in a while. Hardly because Steve Legato, who was the photographer for this book, was so gra fast and so great, and he uses a really beautiful lighting technique, is that, you know, every once in a while you might spray something with a little Pam just to make it shine a tiny bit.

Speaker 9:

Mm-hmm. But

Speaker 11:

otherwise everything was just very natural. You do just. Uh, you know, you have to make a point when you're plating things to plate it in an attractive manner. You always hold back on certain ingredients so that you can add them at the last minute so that they, that they stand out, you know, so that they're, that they're visual.

Mark:

Well, the other, the other thing is when you're. Photographing food, especially hot foods, meats and things like that. If that, once they cool, they don't photograph as well. Yeah. So the speed element that you're talking about is really important.

Speaker 11:

It is really important. And, you know, I came prepared with my little blowtorch, which is, um, great. That you use, like if you have meat. And the meat, um, has been sitting there for a while and then you know how the little fat part on it starts to get white and

Speaker 9:

solid? Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 11:

You can kind of hit that with a blowtorch and then that, that. Makes it turn into fat again. And Steve was so fast that, well, I never even needed to use it.

Mark:

You know, I've heard that you can save that blowtorch for your creme bru light next time.

Francis:

Exactly. I've, I've heard that when you photograph meat, uh, it, it's always done. Very, very rare. Is that, is that, is that true?

Speaker 11:

Um, well, I think it looks more attractive when it's rare, but you have to make sure it's cooked and doesn't have that raw look. I remember one of the first times I did some, uh, a rack of lamb, uh, the photographer was, was just very impressed that I was able to cook it to the right temperature, which brings me to one of my favorite kitchen tools, an instant read thermometer. Mm-hmm. And boy, I just think that. People are foolish to cook without an instant read thermometer. Yeah. It's

Francis:

a valuable, valuable tool for the home cook if once you, and you know, even if it, you're experimenting with your own stuff, if you wanna be able to replicate what you did the next time. Right. You need to know to know where things are.

Speaker 11:

Oh, exactly. And when you think, you know, if a rack of lamb is gonna cost you 20 bucks, you know why? Why risk it? Right. Exactly. You've got a$5 tool that you know, it's just, I don't know. Makes things so easy.

Mark:

Absolutely. Well, Jeannie, I want you to know it was only a little blurb in your book, but it, it was my, one of my absolute favorite things in the world to do. And it's cooking with duck fat. Yes. And I, one of the most underappreciated, vehicles in the world for, for making great food is specially potatoes, is duck fat.

Speaker 11:

You know, I actually ate some potatoes roasted in duck fat last night. Boy, they were just so delicious.

Mark:

I, I'll never forget the first time I had'em, a, a guy by the name of David Page who owned home Restaurant now owns Shin Vineyards out on Long Island, uh, made'em for me. We had a, a kind of an all night barbecue that kind of went to morning time and in the morning he got up and made everybody hash browns made in duck fat. And I've never forgotten it. And I never will.

Francis:

Well, thanks, uh, so much for coming on our show. The book is lovely. Thank you, mark.

Speaker 11:

Thank you, Francis.

Francis:

It was great to have you, and if you wanna find out more about Blue eggs and yellow tomatoes recipes from a modern kitchen, you can go to our website, restaurant guys radio.com. We'll be back in just a moment. Hey everybody. Welcome back, mark and Francis, the restaurant guys. Uh, Jeannie Kelly, duck Fat. You were talking about duck fat. Oh, yeah.

Mark:

really and truly one of my favorite ingredients in the world. Really underappreciated. Uh, not easy to find unless you render your own ducks as we do. But, uh, what a great ingredient. What a great way to, to cook foods. Trust me, if you're cooking potatoes in oil, Cook'em in duck fat one time, you'll never go back.

Francis:

You know, we don't roast a lot of ducks in my home. Um, and we don't roast a lot of geese in my home, but, but whenever we do, I will keep the duck fat from the bottom of the pan.'cause whenever you roast a duck or goose, they express a lot of fat. So you gotta,

Mark:

especially a goose. Oh my goodness.

Francis:

You gotta, you gotta put'em on a rack. And actually with a goose, it renders so much fat that you gotta pull some of that fat outta the pan during the cooking process. Mm-hmm. Or it'll overflow. Um, and it'll like. It will rise up beyond the rack and your goose will be frying in its own fat.

Mark:

And the other thing that will happen is what an ungodly mess you will have in your oven. It's, uh, your, your goose will be cooked awful. Let's shame on you for going there.

Francis:

But the thing is you can keep that stuff on the counter, uh, and then use that to make your eggs or whatever. Mm-hmm. We use, we do keep our bacon fat. Mm-hmm. Uh, and we use that as large. To do a whole bunch of stuff when we want dry stuff. Yeah. You just need to be

Mark:

careful with the bacon fat that once it's burned, you really, you really ha it really takes on kind of a, unpleasant flavor. But, uh, yeah, bacon fat definitely works and we just keep it on the

Francis:

counter covered. Mm-hmm. Uh, room temperature. I mean, I use it in, in lieu of butter in a lot of applications. It's great to, to, if you wanna cook up some vegetables, throw a little bit of bacon fat on there. I know. I'm horrifying. Health food, you know, everywhere. You know what, I still

Mark:

can, I tell you, Francis, you just said something. I still put my, my, uh, duck fat and bacon fat in the fridge. Sorry. I, I just do.

Francis:

Well they say, you know, we, we'll have to look up that, but they say that, um, people can get into trouble with that because the condensation forms. Mm-hmm. When you take it out of the. Fridge. So if you, if you put it in the fridge, leave it there and never take it out. You gotta reach in the fridge, scoop what you need, and put it on the, on the pan right away. Yes. Or, or your condensation is gonna form, which will lead to rancidity. Right. So a lot of, not everything is best kept in the refrigerator. For instance, your coffee is not a good idea to keep coffee in the refrigerator or the freezer.'cause every time you take it out, even for just a moment, you get condensation in there. The condensation dilutes the coffee and, and can lead it to, to. Two going bad. So the freezer is not for everything. How

Mark:

about, how about at my house where we use coffee about every six months?

Francis:

Still not in the freezer.'cause

Mark:

we're, we're not huge coffee drinker. So

Francis:

should go, should go in a sealed container. And basically anything that's in oil often is better. Not put in the refrigerator like olive oil and the like, because. Condensation forms inside the bottle.

Mark:

Actually, actually what Jennifer and I do is basically we buy a a half pound bag of coffee whenever we're having company because, just because we eat so little coffee. I know. Because you

Francis:

usually give whatever's left to me and say, here, take us home. Answer. Hey, I hope you've enjoyed the hour with the restaurant Guys, I'm Francis Shop right on Mark Pascal. We are the restaurant guys. 1450 WCTC. The Times 12 noon.