Max Tucci Shares The Delmonico Way

The Banter

The Guys discuss the movement in the wine industry to market wine as a lifestyle product. Do folks want to choose wine based on what’s on the bottle or what’s in the bottle?

The Conversation

The Restaurant Guys chat with Max Tucci, third-generation restaurateur of the iconic Delmonico's in New York. They delve into the rich history of Delmonico's, discussing its significance from the Gilded Age to today and the culinary innovations that originated there. Max shares touching stories about his family's legacy and the importance of hospitality which he carries into his new venture Tucci.

The Inside Track

The Guys and Max, all seasoned restaurateurs, understand that while there are many moving pieces in a dining experience, there is really only one thing that matters.

“Here's one thing, and you guys get it. At the end of the day, people aren't gonna remember the music. They're not gonna remember if the cocktail was perfectly chilled. They're not gonna remember if this steak was medium rare, but they're gonna remember how they were treated,” Max Tucci on The Restaurant Guys Podcast 2025

Bio

Max Tucci is an award-winning producer, host, and author, best known for carrying forward the legacy of New York City’s iconic Delmonico’s restaurant. Max is also the author of The Delmonico Way: Sublime Entertaining and Legendary Recipes from the Restaurant that Made New York. 

His podcast, Max & Friends, began as a radio show in 2008 and became a podcast. It’s currently on hiatus.

Info

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https://thedelmonicoway.com/

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Transcript

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_132400: 0:35

Hello everybody and welcome. You are listening to the Restaurant Guys. I'm Mark Pascal and I'm here with Francis Shot. Together we own stage left in Catherine Lombardi, restaurants in New Brunswick, New Jersey. We're here to bring you the inside track on food, wine, and the finer things in life. Hello, mark. Hey Francis. How you doing? I'm doing great. I'm looking forward to our guest. Today is gonna be Max Tucci. His family has been running, he's the third generation of his family to be running Del Monacos in New York. He's also got Ucci. He's also got a great book out. Um, and it's gonna be a great show. It's gonna be a lot of fun. You know, one of the things that Francis and I do on the show, I got a little, go a little off topic here,

Francis: 1:10

We frequently, purposely avoid

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_132400: 1:12

politics that aren't the politics of food. Right, right. We, we, you know, we do talk a little bit about the politics of food and we avoid, we avoid partisan politics, partisan politics. We're in favor of good food policy and good drinks policy. But I, I, I just have to share with you something. So there are certain people who, when they post something, they're gonna get reactions from people, right? Yes. And politicians are, are high on this list. Right. And our governor posted something on, uh, about bagels. Really. Okay. He's just about, you know, loving my morning bagel. He is at a bagel shop somewhere. you know, just, just a thing about bagels. Okay. You know, and there's a cadre. People are gonna be like, oh, you're the best governor ever. Oh, terrific. And there's always gonna be the haters, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I, and this line will stay with me forever. I promise. I'm, I'm dying to hear it. I promise. Somebody wrote, you know, who likes bagels? Old people like bagels, but you killed them all during COVID just looking for a smear. You know what I mean? Poor guy have ZI can't even post about bagels and somebody's gonna dig in. And that's, I, I just, you know, and we're not saying whether we love him or hate him or however, there's, like I said, there's always gonna be those people who are like, oh, you're the best, you're the greatest. And there's always gonna be those absolute haters who are gonna. But just get'em. But that speaks to the utility of the show, Uhhuh. And it's why, I mean, we never have posted partisan policy. We have talked about. Things that were before the Legisla, various legislators Sure. That we agreed with her's. Politics. If we're, if you're talking about, you know, should Monsanto be allowed to, to patent life? Yeah. You know, that's, that's it is politics, but's the politics of food. We're against that, by the way. But, uh, but, uh, no, but we never, we never like talk about a particular candidate or a particular party. We just talk about when, when it impacts policy, whether it's food or alcohol, lifestyle, ecology. We'll talk about the policies we think are great because I think frankly, people need a break from that. And the guy, yeah. Who looked at Governor Murphy with a smear on his bagel and said, this is my God. I'm gonna tell him you, we all need to be able to turn it off for an hour. Can we turn it off a little bit and get it one more time? You know who likes bagels? Old people, but you killed them all. Yeah, that's really, that really went, that went a little far. That went a little far. So let's talk about something else. We got. Okay, let's, let's, let's get, get back to Russia. I liked that, by the way. Sorry. I liked that little segment. That was nice. So. I wanna talk about, we, we did a show with just us recently. Mm-hmm. We were talking about questions we wanted to ask each other, and one of the questions that we didn't get to on the show that you had po posed for me was you said that obviously we're both gonna answer together, um, was you talk about how wine, what is it like to go to professional wine tastings and is it different in America, in Europe and what's going on with professional wine tastings today? And I think that, I think that's a very interesting question because we have an AR arena where mm-hmm. A lot of young people aren't drinking wine. Although when you dive into the, um, statistics a little more there, there was a glimmer of hope there. They're not drinking the same wines their parents drank, which is to be expected. And, um. You know, we've gotta do some education and people are trying to figure out new ways to appeal to wine drinkers. Mm-hmm. Because the people, the amount of people drinking wine, that the amount of wine being drunk has shrunk. Sure. Um, and I think what's, what's really fascinating to me is. There's all the literature and the marketing literature that has been out for a while and is now being adopted by some very serious wineries is to say, avoid all the technical stuff. Avoid all, and by technical stuff they mean, you know, how wine is made degree, days of sunshine. But no, but they even mean like avoid, like how wine is made or how the, the, the vines are different here, or what kind of oak is used or, or if it's barrel age, just avoid all of that and just focus on lifestyle. I, I read a couple things recently where people were talking about like what they mean by that. They're like, our marketing is all like pictures of people in the vineyard, in fashionable clothes. Well, you know what that is? That's marketing. That's not, that's not talking about wine, that's not talking about how it really affects your life. But the marketing of wine used to be, look, we're differentiating ourselves because we're great and I can see where your consumer's not that into it. A little bored with hearing about, you know, degree days of Sunshine and talking about, you know, age of Vines. But to be honest with you, I think that this, it's a mistake to go too far into just because all the marketing is, all the marketing is, is it's packaging, it's fluff, it's lifestyle, and it has nothing to, and it's like this wine is great for a summer afternoon. we were talking to somebody the other day who said. Can you believe they changed that package? I don't like the new packaging at all. And you and I kind of sat there, were like, I don't care. I don't care. Does it, did they change what was in the bottle?'cause that happens sometimes. Yeah. A brand gets taken over by, by a bigger brand. And then what They change, what, what happened in the bottle Tremendously matters to me. But as a, as a person who owns a, a fairly small wine shop Right? Right. But has always been focused on, you know, I'm gonna serve you a bottle on the floor. You're always picking by. What's in the bottle and not what's on the bottle. That's always been our mantra and so I, I, I just don't care that much how it looks. Well, except that that's what's, that's not where the, where the marketing goes today. Mm-hmm. And I just wanna point out to everybody that when we talk about this once we abandon, because I think, look, there's a little bit of a, dip right now. But I think wine is interesting, making wine. It's in the Bible, it's been here for a long time, and people di differentiating wine in one wine from another. Throughout Shakespeare, you see it with false staff. Right. Um, but I, I think we have to stay focused on, for those of us who love wine and wanna see it continue, we have to say, listen, it's made by this family and this specific plot of land. And maybe I don't get into the specifics, but the, that plot of land with these grapes on these old vines is what makes it taste like this. And give a few descriptors of the wine. If we go over to just lifestyle fluff and, pretty Instagram pictures of, of farmhouse. Mm-hmm. Um, the small producers are dead. Okay.'cause,'cause there's, because they'll never be able to market the way the big, the big company's still. And, and there is no way to differentiate even if they're the same. Mm-hmm. The, the big company, how, the reason it got so technical is'cause a lot of small people said, Hey, this is a very specific thing in a very specific craft from a very specific place and this is how it's different. So we need to ch get that messaging. So maybe it's not. So numbers based, but I think to abandon talking about wine as very specific, made by a specific family in a specific place, and some of the things that you should be tasting that make wine. Wine that makes Sair sair, um. You have to know that sun is made from Sauvignon Blanc. You have to, and we, we can't abandon that, but one, but one of the things that's happening in the wine world. Yeah, okay. In the wine makers that I'm seeing. Yeah. That is pushing more to that. Okay. There is an accepted way now in California and Napa to train your vines. There's an accepted way to plant your vines and the amount of, and you're seeing more and more people go by the formula. Yeah. I'm sorry. Th there's a formulaic way, I don't wanna say an accepted way. There's a formulaic way and you're seeing more and more people conform to the formula. You pick your, grapes at this level of sugar. You pick your at at this time. This is how you do it. This is how long you ferment. And I think there are more and more people falling in line with that. And we're gonna lose some of the diversity of, of wineries and wines. I, I, I see your point, but there are people pushing back against that as well. Mm-hmm. Um, but I, but obviously if all we're gonna market is the, is the, is the lifestyle images on Instagram and on the package? Does it, is it gonna make that much of a difference? So, I, I, but here's, here's my prescription for everybody. If you love wine, grab a young person and make them love wine. With you. Uh, and like seven grab a 7-year-old. I don't think maybe a 7-year-old, but, but you know, I think, I think it's important to stay real and talk about, you know, the reality of wine. You have to bring a little something to the table. And I know people's attention stands spans are getting shorter, but It's worth learning about. And it brings you such joy, even if you just pick one region of the world and learn about Tuscany, just only drink Tuscan wines. Learn about Tuscany. Learn nine different wines from Tuscany and drink them and incorporate that into, into, you know who you are. And it's not about just the marketing'cause that's all the big companies are gonna win that game where it's, well, it's our old maxim and this is the part I think that somewhere is getting lost. Mm-hmm. And I really do think that somewhere is getting lost when you have the right wine. With the right food. Both of those things taste better. Yeah. I can make your food taste better with the right wine and I can make your wine taste better with the right food. And the old maximum one in one can equal three in this magical world of wine and food. And you gotta allow it to happen. And, and I think a lot of people are, are missing that part of life. Don't miss that part of life. Yeah.

Francis: 10:13

Gotta think about it a little bit, but totally well rewarded. But what we're gonna be thinking about in a moment is, uh, our conversation with Max Tucci. He's written a great book about his family's restaurants. Of course His family's steakhouse, is delmonico's the restaurant's been there for more than a century and they've owned it for about a century. uh, it's gonna be a great time. So stick with us. We'll be back with Max Sui in just a moment. You can always find out more about the restaurant guys@restaurantguyspodcast.com.

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 10:35

Hey there everybody. Welcome back. Our guest today is Max Tucci. He is the third generation leader of the legendary Del Monacos in New York City. He's also the creative mind behind Tucci, a beautiful Italian spot in Greenwich Village. Inspired by his family's Tuscan roots in 2022, he put pen to paper and gave us the Del Monaco way, sublime, entertaining, and legendary recipes from the restaurant that made New York it's kind of history, recipe collection, and all about the art of entertaining. Uh, and we're thrilled to,, welcome Max to the show today. Hey, max, welcome.

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 11:04

Hey, thank you for having me.

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 11:06

everyone in New York knows that, Del Monaco's is the, uh, historic restaurant. It's one of the most important restaurants in New York's history. People know the Cut, the Del Monaco cut of steak. If you haven't heard of the, of the Steakhouse, can you give us a little history on, on the restaurant that your family has run for three gener.

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 11:23

Absolutely. So Del Monaco's, the takeaway is that it's older than the Statue of Liberty. It's older than the Brooklyn Bridge, and it's older than public running water in New York.

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 11:32

Huh.

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 11:33

of fact, it's so old that. Abraham President Abraham Lincoln dined at demon's. Mark Twain dined at demon's. Damos as a brand started in 1827. This is the Reader Digest version, and then fast forwarded to 1837 when we're in the same location on 56 Beaver Street. The dishes that came out of Damos Lobster, Newberg baked Alaska eggs, Benedict, my grandfather with the wedge salad. And then during my grandfather's run, the most important, the Tony Mays, the Siri Maccioni. The Harrys, the Fedoras, the Lelo Arpaio all started their first gig at Sam Monicas.

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 12:09

So when did your grandfather take over and, and it became a Tucci restaurant?

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 12:13

So in 1926, remember the Damo family started the brand in 1827 and it ran till about 1917, 1920s. Prohibition hits the Damo families. They're suffering financially. They're look, they're in the restaurant business. They're bleeding money, okay?

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 12:30

Yeah.

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 12:30

to buy farms. They bought a farm. They decided to expand locations. So, you know, we all know in this industry. When you expand, you have to expand graciously and slowly. So they started doing it majorly. They lost a lot of money and by, you know, not by prohibition, they were shuttered. They had lost a lot of money. My grandfather knew the family and so, you know, he made a deal and he bought the building, bought the brand, bought the restaurant, and in 1926, you know, he started to speakeasy in the basement until 1933 when he had the third liquor license in New York. But he was operating Del Monaco's at one point. He was operating 68,000 square feet of restaurant space.

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 13:10

Wow. Where and where were all those Del Monacos located?

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 13:14

So there was one on 14th Street, fifth Avenue in the twenties. Like they really branched them all out through New York City. Um, remember the Gilded Age was a huge part of their, their existence. And so more and more socialites needed places and venues to throw parties in. It was a clever, I mean, it was a clever move to start expanding, but it was, you know, too much too soon.

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 13:35

But they did something extraordinary, right? They bought property in New York City and you know, we tell people all the time, the the most life changing. Event we ever made was buying the building that houses our restaurants, not opening restaurants. It was, it was buying this, the, the big piece of property and managing our own destiny. So, uh, you know, I imagine that has had a, a big impact in your life.

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 13:59

Yeah. You know, my grandfather was clever. That was his thing. He was a Tuscan immigrant, came from Italy, you know, he was purchasing buildings in New York at a time when, you know, they were

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 14:08

Mm-hmm.

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 14:08

and the Damo building was available and he had a big dream. You know, I call it in the book, we call it the Sonno, you know, the American Dream. Like so many had, and it's true. His success was yes, the restaurant and a thousand lunches a day, but ultimately was owning the Damo building.

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 14:26

You know, when I look back at Del Monaco's and, and if you're from New York, and we used to belong to a club called the Red Meat Club, which met for about 12 or 13 years. We would meet on the second Monday of every month and have lunch somewhere at a steakhouse in New York City. So this is before the internet and you know mm-hmm. Before Instagram and all that stuff, we were keenly aware of and enchanted by the restaurant, the rich restaurant in cocktail history of New York. And there are certain steakhouses that are just in your mind if you know steakhouses in New York and. Del Monaco's is one of them. there's Sparks, there's Keens, there's um, Peter Lugers, but Del Monaco's is the one that I think of in the same sort of, you know, it coexisted with the Stork Club, you know, pre-production Speakeasy 21 Club. Yeah. Pre-prohibition speakeasy that then becomes a legitimate restaurant and stays at the top of the cultural pyramid of New York City. So can you talk to us about that and like how your grandfather, you know, piloted through that and became not just a steakhouse that managed to stay open, but a brand that remained relevant to New Yorkers to this day

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 15:35

you know, Oscar Tucci. I love saying my ancestors' names. There's a, there's a saying that every time you say their name, their energy surrounds you. Right? So, I mean, the amount of times I've been saying my grandfather's name, he's ba basically moved back in. So, you know, he was a clever marketer, as was my grand as my father, Mario Tucci. Marketing was super important to them. Um, and remember though, Damco was never slated a steakhouse until the 1990s. Prior, it was a fine French dining. My grandfather brought international cuisine. Yes, the damco steak was on the menu, but it dare you say steakhouse, you know, it was like shame on you. Right? And so, um, delcos, we have to remember also the importance of delcos is so obvious in Hollywood, right? So there's those subliminal messages when you're watching. Hello Dolly. We'll see the shows at Delcos. When you see the with Elvis, you know the broad he sings, look out Broadway. You know, we're gonna Die. And Untake and Wine at Delcos Life with Father Elizabeth Taylor. We're going to Delcos. So when Hollywood is subliminally putting Delcos into your consciousness. It becomes even more like an experience. We have to go there and I mean in life with Father when, when little Elizabeth Taylor is like, oh, we're going to Del Monaco's, you know? I think during that period of time, wanted that same excitement that Elizabeth Taylor had in saying We're going to Del Monaco's.

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 16:59

I do.

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 16:59

think. Right. So marketing yes, was a big thing. And my grandfather loved, I mean, Bon Appetit Magazine back in the day, right. Cindy Adams. She's been covering Delco since 1959. Right. And she still comes in today. So when you have the relationship with the press and when you have the relationship with Hollywood, it is just a recipe for success.

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 17:21

Well, you, I mean, let's face it. Delcos is an, is an icon, right? You, you guys, you guys are, are the definition of that early. Fine dining restaurant, but you know, before their, before.

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 17:33

first line dining

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 17:34

Yeah. I mean before there were fine dining restaurants. Del Monaco said, Hey, let's have a fine dining American fine dining restaurant. I'll tell you, when I go to Del Monaco's, uh, you have to have a steak. I have to have a steak, and I have to start with a martini. There's simply, that's, that's it. And a bottle of red wine with, with lunch or dinner. And that's the way it, it's, but you kind of breezed past it. I mean, how many things originated in Del Monacos, how many different foods that became part of the American Lexicon? Originated in Del Monacos. Can we start by talking about the Delco steak?

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 18:04

Absolutely.

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 18:05

Go ahead.

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 18:06

mother says any steak at Delcos is a damco steak.

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 18:10

Right, right.

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 18:11

the lore is, is it a ribeye, is it a bone in ribeye? Is it a strip? You know, my mother, who I, who's my mom is the best. We talk seven times a day, if not 20 times a day. And she always says, tell everybody it's a bone in ribeye. So I'm not going against my mother. So I know people are gonna, they're gonna message me and they're gonna say, it's something different. Bring it up with Mama Gina.

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 18:33

I love it, but, but just,

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 18:34

And medium rare please. Medium rare, at least medium rare.

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 18:38

I, I, I, I love that the na that you got your name of the restaurant associated with a cut of steak. Um, that's, that, that's just amazing. And everyone's said is, I mean, yeah.

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 18:49

the Damco cocktail too, which it's a Gilded Age cocktail,

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 18:53

Tell us about that.

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 18:54

doing a cocktail book right now about the, well, I'm doing a cocktail book that spans from the Gilded Age to the age of greed. So we're going from the Gilded Age to the 1980s and all the cocktails. There's a quote that my mother said is that Delcos in its entire run so far has served over 100 million cocktails.

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 19:13

That's unbelievable. That's great. That's a, that's unbelievable. I, I remember doing the math and figuring out when Francis and I crossed over a million customers, I was like. Wow, A hundred million is more than a million. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's wild.

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 19:26

Well, here's what's interesting. Del Monaco's, like I said earlier, older than the Statue of Liberty, right? Del Monaco's as a brand will be 200 years old in 2027. The Tucci family, my family will be in hospitality 100 years next year in 2026. So if you're imagining 200 years, I mean older than the Statue of Liberty. When people are like, how is that number accurate? Well, we're older than the Statue of Liberty.

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 19:53

Right. Well that's very, that's very well done. So, alright, so talk to us though about when somebody walks into Delmonico's today, what do you want them to feel? What is it you are trying to surround them with and what's the experience you're trying to give somebody today?

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 20:10

That's a beautiful question and you know, it's, it's intention, right? So when we were reopening Dam Monacos, I say reimagining Dam Monacos. I say we're moving forward while looking back. Right. So yes, we have to have the elements of today, but we also have to bring in that grandeur that that Delco grandeur. You know, when Gypsy Rose Lee would come and she would pull up in her Rolls Royce and then if, you know, when she got tipsy, she would get on the table. I want people to have that experiential delmonico's moment, and how do I do that? By telling stories. And by the photographs inside we have photographs. When my grandfather had the first, you know, the, the gold cigarette girl, she was selling cigarettes, cigars, cigarettes, right? And gypsy RoseLee and pictures of Sierra Maccioni as a busboy. So I'm bringing people through this photographic experience of remembering the past while moving forward. And my grandfather was known for saying, all are welcome to the table. So it's bringing that hospitality and that warmth to Damon's today.

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 21:09

Well, let's be fair. As long as you have money, it's like if you're.

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 21:12

Well, it's restaurant right now.

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 21:15

Nice. I like it. I like it. So we've taken up, uh, the tradition of the cigarette girl and so we'll have a, we'll have events sometimes and we'll have a cigarette girl, except it'll be a, it'll be a caviar girl. Yeah. So she'll come around and little caviar bumps for you. It's, it's a lot of fun. So I wanna talk about, so we come in and we have the photographs around, but I, you know, this is a restaurant show, restaurant professional show. People are really interested in dining. What am I, what's happening at the tableside that brings me into your world? What is hospitality like there? The food, the wine, the style of service, the people I'm talking to. What? What can I expect that is uniquely a Del Monaco's experience?

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 21:51

So I love, we have a very highly trained staff. We also have, um, a mature staff. You know, men who are, and women who have been in the business who understand hospitality. My grandfather was known for saying that everybody, no matter who you are, wants three things. Do you see me? Do you hear me? And do I matter? Right. And so when we're bringing that to the table, we're validating the guests and then we're flam banging the baked Alaska tableside. We have the tablecloths, we have those, those hints of old world charm. And the building, you know, the building brings in that building is 1837. We've been there. So when you walk through those front doors and you rub those Pompe and columns, that energy is felt. But I think what makes dam monaco's and any restaurant wonderful. Is to have a staff that really honors the guest. And that's what we do at Demon's. We honor you and we, you know, we bring in the elements of the old.

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 22:43

You couldn't have said a better thing because Mark, mark and I talk all the time about, you know, when we talk to our waiters and our staff, I'm like, I think we have the best food in Jersey. I mean, I really do. I think we have the most seasonal food. I think we have the best wine list. We, we are the oldest cocktail bar, modern cocktail bar in America, and we have great cocktails and, but what I say to all these. Men and women who work for us is like all of these things are arrows in your quiver. The point is not to have the best food in, in, in New Jersey, but we do. The point is not to have the best cocktails available, but we do because they may not want the cocktail or they may, the point is. To have you come to a place where you have a human interaction, where you're recognized and we make sure that you are seen and we are emotionally present with you, and you have a great fricking time, and whether it's your family gathering or your date or your dining room at the bar, and then you walk out, and that's exactly what you just said. Yeah. All this stuff is just the, the, the tools we use to get you there. But it's about you gotta meet, you gotta meet the customer where they are. Right. Yeah. They gotta, you gotta, you gotta come to them. That's our job. And I'm, I'm glad you said that because you have all this cool stuff that nobody else has. That's the other thing I'd want as a restaurateur. There's no place quite like our restaurants stage left and Catherine Lombardi, there are places that are as good as our restaurants. Few, but, um, but, but for yours as well, there's nothing like's, but the reason you have that is to bring people through it. It's not just look at. You know what? There was, there was somebody you said to me once, there's two kinds of PE people who matter when they walk in a room. One is they walk in and they're like, how lucky you are to be here. And the other is how lucky we are that you're here. Look, we did this all for you. You know, that's, that's the style of service you want. And I couldn't be happier with what you said.

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 24:26

You know, and I thank you, and I wrote about it in the demon way, right? I wrote about it so that people can take that into their home to learn what my grandfather taught my father, what my father taught me. Here's one thing, and you, you, you guys get it. And I wish more restaurateurs will get it. At the end of the day, people aren't gonna remember the music. They're not gonna remember if the cocktail was perfectly chilled. They're not gonna remember if this steak was medium rare, but they're gonna remember how they were treated. Right. And once we treat them in the environment, we're all are welcome to the table. I like to say the first time you're a friend, the second time you're family. Right? So that makes them, and then by the second time you know them by their name. Why did we love Cheers? Because every Cheers where everybody knows your name, those are just simple, fundamental facts of running an establishment where people are validated.

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 25:11

Well, people will remember how they felt.

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 25:14

Yes.

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 25:15

they were in your establishment, that's what they'll remember more than all the rest of the stuff. I totally agree with you. So Max, I have to talk to you about something very personal. So, 20, 20 years ago, I named, uh, a restaurant after my Italian grandmother, my Italian American grandmother, my great-grandparents, or from, uh, Avellino, just outside of Naples. Catherine Lombardi was born and it's very personal to me, right? People talk about, oh, it's just business. Nah, it's very personal to me, and I'm serving my family's food, and it's really important to me that it be a certain way every night, all the time, have a certain feel, have a certain vibe that people are treated the right way, feel the right way when they come in the restaurant. You've now opened a restaurant called Tucci, uh, based on your family's food and based on the on, you know, your household and your traditions. You gotta tell us a little bit about how that came about.

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 26:08

So Tucci really was to honor my ancestors, right? I like to say they paved this wonderful yellow brick road that I get to either run down or continue to build, right? So I'm continuing to build it while running down it too. But Tucci really evokes the spirit of my ancestors, the hard work. They were Italian immigrants. They came to this country. Yes, Del Monaco's was what made them famous and successful. and we say Del Monacos, but seldom do we say the name Oscar Tucci and Mario Tucci and Mary Tucci and Cesta Tucci. So for me it's about honoring the ancestors that. might have been overshadowed by Del Monacos. And so I bring in their pictures. I have my Nonna Cestas, her Caesar salad. I have the Tucci meatballs. So we honor the recipes. We honor the family, we honor their names. And again, photographs. I take you to our villain, Italy and Tucci. Looks like Fi. It looks like our villain, Florence. So I'm bringing you on the journey into the Tucci Touch. I call it. I introduce you to my ancestors. And so people, you know, and they re they're reminded of their own ancestors. So again, it's to honor my ancestors. My, I get choked up because when we opened, my mother and I were standing outside of the building. My father passed away when I was very young. And I never met my grandfather or my grandmother, but my Aunt Mary, who was the iron fist with the lace glove of Damos was like the woman who taught me everything about Damos. And my mother, you know, she's like such a force. And we're standing outside of Tucci and my mother looks at me and we're both, you know, weeping. And my mother goes, you finally have your name on Broadway. And I was like, no, no, no. We finally have my aunts, the Tucci, the Tucci name on Broadway.

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 27:53

It's, you know, it's funny that you say that because one of the things we did very intentionally in, cath Lombardi, again, my grandmother was the room is filled. With pictures from the 19 hundreds to, let's say, the 1940s of my family and the family table, and people sitting around that table and, and how we came together and the Italian festivals in Brooklyn, and, you know, all of those things. And, and there's a, a great picture of VJ Day and it's a big block party in my, uh, grandfather's. Pouring from the big gallon jug of wine, a glass of wine right in the middle of the picture, a glass of wine for my godmother, and it's just this, and there are 28 people in the picture who I don't know, but look a little bit like me, you know? So, so I, I, I know somehow it's, it's all intertwined and. I, I personally love being in that room. You know, I get the warm fuzzies in that room. and we have a kitchen entrance and I'll walk up the kitchen stairs some mornings and I'll smell my grandmother's house.

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 28:57

Oh yeah.

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 28:58

it's just this, this, this goosebump moment that happens to me, as I'm coming up and I, and I just smell those smells of, of everything cooking and roasting and the, and the garlic being sauteed. And it, it's, it's really special. And I, and anybody who takes the time to respect those, those, uh, generations that came before, I have a huge amount of respect for.

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 29:19

Yeah. You know, it's interesting when Del Mona, when Tucci, I, I have to segue from Del Mona's to Tucci often, but when Tucci opened at 6 4 3 Broadway, and you know, I do the work too, I'm not like, I don't just show up. Like I roll up the sleeves, let's paint, let's sand, what do we need to do? And I'm sitting there and we're almost opened in in March of. 24 and there's a picture of my father, Mario and my grandfather Oscar at the villain, Florence, sitting at the table and it's the two of them. And I was downstairs, it's table 38 in the corner. I was sitting there and my chef comes downstairs, Valentina goes, I have some pasta for you. And I'm eating this pasta and I'm looking at my father, my grandfather, and I start weeping. And now my chef starts crying and he is like, I'm like, no, like all of this work is to honor them. And I didn't even have a napkin. So I take the focaccia and I'm wiping my tears with the focaccia and I look over at my grandfather, my grandfa, and my father in that picture. And I'm like, this is all for you. And I'm so blessed, and so lucky, and so honored to be the one that gets to remember them, but introduce them to a whole new generation.

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 30:26

That's an interesting special focaccia with owner's tears. Oh, I think. That, that could be around the bankruptcy era. I, I'm gonna take a second. I'm gonna do something I've never done. I'm gonna thank my business partner Francis, who allowed me to, to open this restaurant with him, celebrating my family and the relatives and the, and the food of, my life. Because that's really a, a life experience lifeline for me, all the way back to, to my ancestors, my, my grandparents, that, that the places I grew up and the life I grew up in. So thank you Francis, for You're welcome friend, allowing that to happen. Well, I, I will tell you my perspective on all of this, um, this is the Italian show, by the way. I'm being quieter than usual. The Irish Bar show, the Dead Rabbit show. I, I, I led on, but no, but, but honestly, I, Catherine Lombardi. Had passed away by the time we decided to open the restaurant named after her, but she was at the opening of stage left and I had eaten at her table on several occasions. She's an, that was amazing food. And speaking as an Irish kid, thank God we had Italian neighbors so we could go someplace and get something good to eat. So it was, uh, celebrating your family's cuisine. Next to my family who boiled everything. Um, but, but, um, again, I wanna ask you the same question about Tucci. People walk through the door, obviously, we as ERs good Urs, always think about, okay, I'm putting myself in the position of a diner when they walk through the door. I want them to see this. I want them to feel this. So obviously the, the, the universal is want you to be heard. Seen and, and validated and feel important, but in Del Monaco's, it's this very American, um, steakhouse, historic steakhouse. And you have the flambe stuff going on and all that, that and Those are the tools you bring to bear. And that's the amusement park ride you wanna bring me through. And that's what is the food that I'm gonna have? What do you want the person to have who walks through the door into Tucci? What am I going to eat? What am I gonna see? What am I gonna experience?

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 32:15

So at Tucci you're gonna see me'cause I'm usually there the most. And what you're gonna see when you first walk in is our logo. And why is that important? Because that was my father's signature. Right. So we're already starting off with family. You walk in and it's a very warm, toned experience. You know, it's very much similar with the dark, the dark basil colors and the, and the, and the soft pinks. And then you see a picture of my grand of my grandmother and my grandfather. So now you're in the restaurant and the food that you're gonna experience are my grandmother's meatballs, her secret recipe. And everyone's like, oh, what's the recipe? I'm like, can you keep a secret? Yes. I said, so can I? Right.

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 32:55

My grandmother's, My grandmother's meatballs recipe is only secret is'cause she would forget to tell you half the things that were in it. Not, not for any other reason than that.

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 33:06

Luckily, my Aunt Mary, my Aunt Mary, reminded me, you know, of all of, not only the pictures and the recipes, but, and then in the pic like, like your restaurant, you see that big, uh, photograph of all those people. And in the main dining room on Bleecker Street, you see a picture of my grandfather at the villain, Florence. My grandfather used to buy Cadillacs and had them shipped to Italy. in 1940 he had a Cadillac Lasell and that car arrived and there was a photo of him, like proud to have his American Cadillac in Italy. So that's the picture you see with two guys that my mother refers to. I'm like, mommy, who are those guys? She goes, I don't know, maybe Mussolini's cousins, So everyone gets to pick who they are, but the tones are very warm. The wallpapers, the coverings, the bar, the lighting. Lighting is so important. You know, lighting. I think my father used to say that, that beauty is a light switch away. Right. So you have those warm tones and the food. You smell the food, and I bring out this chef and you're really, you're like at my home. You're not at Tucci. You're at Max Tuc. Chi's home.

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 34:04

You.

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 34:05

that's what I, I bring to that location at 6 4 3 Broadway is welcome home.

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 34:09

You just said something that I think is so important, and this is for your home. This is for Restaur. This is for anyone. The, the pillar of design lighting is extremely important. It's floors, walls, ceiling. Lighting. Everything else is. After that, you can take a million dollars worth of interior furnishing and with bad cold lighting, make it look like 50 bucks. You can take shabby, you can take shabby chic stuff thrown around that's not very nice, and make it look warm and inviting and great people underestimate the value of lighting and every restaur I know. And every great mare de that, I know they'll do it. When they come to your house, you walk in and what do you adjust? The lights are a little too bright. Every matri, you adjust the lights. You adjust the heat, and you adjust the music.'cause that's the ambient bubble you're in.

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 34:56

And you know, remember I grew up in this industry, so as a child, my two major jobs as a child were making sure the there were no chips on the plates and that no light bulb was burnt out. I cannot go to a restaurant today without looking and noticing if a light bulb was out and it Dr. And then when they put a cold bulb with light

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 35:15

No.

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 35:15

God, it drives me going

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 35:16

Yes.

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 35:17

So Tucci, and you know, today with technology, I get to have the app on my phone. So I get to see right away before I walk in, what percentage is the lighting, do we have to bring it down, two points, you know, and lighting is that super important. It's that glow. And when your customers are glowing in that light, they feel good. Everybody feels better. And then it's a, it's a fun evening, but lighting, oh my god, light. If whoever wants to open a restaurant. Understand lighting, go speak to a lighting expert and really understand the warm lighting and how it's gonna affect your business.

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 35:50

So you mentioned something earlier that your, about your grandfather's Cadillac. My, my grandfather. There was nothing he was more proud of than his Cadillac. You know, he was a, he was a funeral director and he had a beautiful Cadillac.'cause he, you know, he was obviously in that business where you had to have a nice car and,'cause you might be driving people around who were laying down. No. Oh, the people in his car were sitting up the other car behind him though. Exactly. So. But, but there was something about owning a Cadillac that those old Italian guys loved more than anything else. And there was that, and the, and the little grapevine that produced, you know, 72 grapes were the two most precious possessions that any old Italian could possibly have. Did you?

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 36:39

for your grapes, it was figs for us.

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 36:42

Yeah.

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 36:42

fig tree, if it produced 10 figs, they were ecstatic. But I think the Cadillac, you know, if we really understand the Cadillac, it goes with that American dream. It was the ultimate car at the time. You know, forget Mercedes and Rolls Royce and Bentley Cadillac was, you've arrived.

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 36:59

Yeah.

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 36:59

grandmother, she used to drive a big convertible Cadillac, and I think that Cadillac symbol for Italians, you know, it looked, I mean, when we go into the eighties, they would wear the, the emblem around their neck. Cadillacs were the Italian achievement of success. So your grandfather got it.

Mark: 37:16

So Max, you are doing some cool stuff. You're were doing, uh, radio in la What's going on there?

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 37:22

Yeah, so, you know, I used to do television many years ago, and then my agent approached me and said, do you wanna do, back then it was called internet radio. I couldn't get guests. Publicists were saying, what the hell is that? And I'm like, just trust. We're gonna have a fun time and. And um, back in the, when I first started Max and Friends, the show was called To the Max. I couldn't get anybody to come on the show. I was getting friends that I knew and then it started growing and then it changed to Max and Friends. And then it was like Jackie Collins would come on and Lunel and this, you know, celebrities were coming on. So it really turned into a fun platform for me to, you know, talk about life. And Max and Friends, it's still on LA Talk Radio. Um. doing best of shows now because of the restaurants, but I'm

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 38:09

We.

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 38:10

television, you know, as much as I can as well. A lot of cooking segments and I mean, you know, the future, I have two, um, cooking shows written for me. And so maybe I'm gonna go back to Italy for a little bit and you know, do some cooking shows. And we call it research, right?

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 38:27

Yeah, that's right. All research.

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 38:30

and Friends, max and Friends is a great show. It's, it's won so many Communicator awards, tele awards, and you know, it's very much like this just a ca casual conversation with friends. And I think, you know, it's, there's so many, there's so, there's so many shows, but what makes like your show great is that you're just two cool guys who wanna have a good conversation. You know, we're not talking junk about anyone, we're lifting each other up. We're reminiscing. And that's kind of what my show is. know, let's be the light in the dark for some people.

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 39:00

Do you know what's funny about shows like this? I mean, and we're kind of geeky'cause you know, we talk to people in depth at at length like you, so we'd rather have you on and talk about stuff for real. But the other thing is, honestly, I think. There's so many podcasts where people talk seriously about stuff and it is always inflected with politics and, and I think a lot of people who listen to podcasts, want to take a break for a moment and we can talk about food and wine and cocktails and things that bring us together and we can leave that aside and take a little vacation from that and, and listen to a show like ours. And it's easier to do that than even when you go to a restaurant. I think sometimes people do that. Sometimes people talk about politics at a restaurant, but I think that it's really important to talk about this kind of stuff and it's big ideas and it's, and it's about how people come together. And we appreciate you and all that you're doing and, uh, we're really glad you came on the show with us today.

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 39:54

Thank you. And family. You know, I love that we talked about family, you know, that's such a beautiful thing. You know, IJI wanna say that. Being in this industry more now than I am ever, than I ever was, and being at both restaurants, very often seeing that eating is becoming the new cooking. Right. love to eat and they love to eat out. And when we're in that environment where we can be in a really good space where the lighting, like you said, where the lighting is really good and we feel good and

Speaker: 40:26

You never wanna miss a restaurant guy show, and that's why you should subscribe today because Thursday in our rewind show from 2011, we have a great interview we did with John Mariani on how Italian food conquered the world. And then on Saturday we have a show with Charlie Trotter. It's Rewind. This show is for our regular subscribers only. It's a pivotal episode in the restaurant guy's history, and he was a pivotal chef in American cuisine. Perfect time to subscribe so you don't miss it.

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 40:55

our conversations are better, we eat better, we digest better, we live better. So you know, this is like we're at that table. We're at that good table right now.

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 41:04

Well, and Italian food makes you feel better too. Sorry. Yeah, just, just does.

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 41:09

Irish food too, though. We need some good spuds sometimes.

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 41:13

You're very kind. Uh, but uh, no one believes you. Anyway, it's been great to have you on the show. This has been a super fun time. We're gonna link all of your contact information, the book, the restaurants, and each, you're gonna be in New York. You should visit both of these restaurants and, uh, we appreciate you being on the show. Thanks so much, max

max-tucci-_1_08-14-2025_115906: 41:31

My pleasure. Thank you, and I'm coming to visit you guys.

the-restaurant-guys_2_08-14-2025_115907: 41:34

counting on it. We look forward to that. Hey everybody, stick with us. We'll be back on the other side. You can always find out more about us@restaurantguyspodcast.com.

the-restaurant-guys_1_08-14-2025_131223: 42:09

Hey, boy, that guy was a force of nature. Absolutely. I can't wait to go to the restaurants. I, yeah, I delcos on the one hand, but I also wanna go to Tucci. Uh, that sounds great. I, I think I wanna go to Tucci more than I want to go to Delco. Me, you know, especially the, you know, my Italian Yeah, yeah, yeah. Heritage. You know, we were talking about all those pictures on the wall and the, the warm fuzzies I get from, uh, the pictures on our walls. You know, occasionally we will put up a new picture. Yeah, yeah. Well, not a new picture, an old picture on the wall Exactly. To replace one of, one of the other pictures, just to kind of keep the dining room ever changing. Move them around the dining room a little. Yeah. But, but. I remember when we got our menus printed, right when we were opening Kath Lombardi Uhhuh. We got our menus printed and there was an old Polaroid of picture of my grandmother and grandfather in an old apartment that I had never been to. Okay. And they were standing around a fireplace in a, in this old apartment, and it was a picture that was on my bookcase, a Polaroid crappy quality. Polaroid Polaroids were the 19. I guess they were in the sixties even. Right. So I was just thinking about your grandparents being in an apartment you hadn't seen. Must have been the sixties. It was, it was a, I mean, I'm sorry. It looked like a Polaroid. I can't tell you it was Polaroid. Okay. I looked at it my whole life. Yeah. Yeah. Then. The day we got the menus back, that picture was, was in the front of the copy of the menu. Oh yeah, I remember that. In set. In the leather binder. In set. In the leather binder. Exactly. And. They had enhanced the picture and I saw the wallpaper in that apartment for the first time in my life, Uhhuh. And I remember looking at that picture and getting a little bit emotional because I felt like I was getting this new look into my grandparents passed lives that I had never seen before. And I, it was just really cool to, enhance it like that and to see this, this new, this new version of the picture. Well, first of all, I, I, I do think that's fascinating. And, and there's, there's a counterpoint to it. And also you were bringing back their world again. You're trying to recreate their world at the very same time. Mm-hmm. So I can see why they hit you emotionally, but of course you realize that with ai, everybody does that now. It's like, it's like, you know, you can, you might make, they don't just do that. You know what, let's go down to the office desk work. I'll make your grandparents dance around the living room and recite Shakespeare and, uh. So it's not as special today. I promise you. My grandparents never recited Shakespeare. I promise you. I could make it happen in about 20 minutes with AI right down. That's super fun. That's a lot of fun. the other thing is, you have all those pictures of the, the family around the mm-hmm. The dining room walls, and you gonna mess with those two? No, no, no. I was thinking it really is nice. It's one of my favorite parts of the restaurant in the decor. Um, and we really do try to channel your grandmother's, uh, living room. And I met for those in listening that I met Catherine Lombardi and had her food. It was great. I was thinking, yeah, if an Irish person had all their old family line all around the restaurant, there'd be a little thing of holy water and a candle. Maybe it'd just be a very different, very different, I'm not gonna say that. We didn't have those things sitting around too, you know, just that it's. That's true. You know, we tried to keep'em outta the pictures. Well, well, if you would light a candle for us, we'd really appreciate it. I hope you've enjoyed your time with the restaurant Guys. I'm Francis Shop. And I'm Mark Pascal. We are the restaurant guys and you can always find out more and even follow us or subscribe@restaurantguyspodcast.com.