Southern Smoke I 2025

This show was recorded on location at the Southern Smoke Festival in Houston, October 2025

Aaron Bludorn began his journey at Culinary Institute of America (CIA) which led to a prosperous career working under the country’s most celebrated chefs including Michelin-starred Chef Douglas Keene and Daniel Boulud. While working as Executive Chef in Manhattan’s Café Boulud and was cast in Netflix’s blockbuster culinary competition show, The Final Table. That same year, he was honored by Star Chefs when he earned New York City’s Rising Star Community Chef Award. 

In 2019, the Bludorns moved to Houston and in 2020, they opened the eponymous restaurant, Bludorn. In the fall of 2022, he opened his second restaurant, seafood inspired, Navy Blue, followed by Bar Bludorn in March 2024, and most recently, Perseid, which opened in January of this year inside of Hotel Saint Augustine.

Rebecca Masson is Houston’s own “Sugar Fairy,” a renowned pastry chef and owner/operator of H-Town’s Fluff Bake Bar. The Wyoming native cut her teeth at Le Cordon Bleu in Paris and started her career in New York, where she became head pastry chef at The Red Cat under Chef Jimmy Bradley. After arriving in Houston she worked with chefs like Charles Clark and Southern Smoke Foundation’s own Chris Shepherd, before opening Fluff in 2011. That same year, she competed in the second season of Top Chef: Just Desserts

Kyle Knall 

Kyle is the Culinary Director at Stone Bank Farms and Chef and Co-Owner of Birch in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, which he runs with his wife and business partner, Meghan Knall. At Birch, Kyle spotlights ingredients sourced exclusively from the region in an open-hearth setting while prioritizing delicious, honest cooking and sustainability. Kyle and Meghan’s next concept is Cassis, a French bistro opening in the Third Ward in fall 2025.

His work has earned impressive accolades, including a semi-finalist nomination for “Best Chef:Midwest” (2024, 2025) and “Outstanding Chef” (2022) by the James Beard Foundation and a nod for Birch on The New York Times coveted list of the best restaurants in America, “The Restaurant List.”

Info

The Southern Smoke Foundation

https://southernsmoke.org/

We will have a Halloween pop-up bar in Stage Left Steak Oct 27-Nov 1.

https://www.stageleft.com/event/1029-1101-spooky-bar-stage-left-steak/

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Our Places
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https://www.stageleft.com/

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https://www.catherinelombardi.com/

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https://www.stageleftwineshop.com/

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Transcript

the-restaurant-guys_1_10-17-2025_134700: 0:18

So today's show is gonna be a little different than most. This is one of the shows we recorded remotely on site in Houston, Texas at the Southern Smoke Festival. So we talked to a lot of cool people while we were down there. In this show, we're gonna talk about pastry, we're gonna talk about a great restaurant we had gone to the night before, and we're gonna talk to a great chef from Milwaukee. Really kind of covering all the different kinds of things we do. You know, it's, it's really interesting as Mark and I are getting invited, as the restaurant guys are getting invited to different festivals or events and, uh, around the country and around the world, hopefully, it's very interesting to go to these festivals. I enjoy a lot of, when we go onsite to some great restaurant in some other city where we're there on a different mission and we do the food stuff when we're there. But these festivals are, they really do when they're well done. They really do provide a way to have an insight into, not just Houston, which was great, but all the other people who come to Houston and it's great that they're excited to talk to us and we found other places that we now want to go. Absolutely. Down in Houston, Texas, we talked to Manhattan restaurateurs down in Texas. I think they can be really great and it's really, yeah. The role we play at those things. I, I'm really enjoying. Well, it was fun because we, we spent two or three hours doing, doing, recording with people as we went on, but then we also got to partake in the festival. Yeah. Which was great. So a lot of great food there. Really great. Cause I, I think that Doing shows like this is really interesting. A little different than what we normally do. Yeah. But super interesting and, and fun and exciting for us, and hopefully for the listeners as well. this time, we traveled with Julie. Mm-hmm. And Jen, our producer and your wife, uh, and Julie, our director of operations and not your wife or my wife. And it was, it was great to explore Houston as the city and it's a, it's really interesting. I probably never would've wound up in Houston the second time I've ever been in Texas. Mm-hmm. And I want to tell you, the stars at night are big and bright down in the heart of Texas. Can I say that You're not laughing. Um, the stars of Night are big and bright, but you know that I've been in Texas twice in my life. Have you? Yeah. I went to Texo. Well, I know one time. Yeah. Yep. You know, the other time was, oh, TEXO. I went to Texo years ago, which is a sommelier conference down there. That's amazing. Super important. Yeah. One of the biggest sommelier competitions in the country. Do you know where I stayed the first time? I was in Texas. I was in Dallas. Do you know what hotel I stayed at? I thought you were gonna say like in the subway? No, no. The Four Seasons. Oh, nice. Do you know where we stay this time? I do know where do we stay The Four Seasons. So from my perspective, Texas is a wonderful state. Uh, I don't see what anybody ever complains about as far as Texas. And you'll find out more about Houston, Texas when we take you down right now to Houston with us at the Southern Smoke Festival.

the-restaurant-guys_1_10-04-2025_142817: 3:17

Hello everybody and welcome. You are listening to the Restaurant Guys. I'm Mark Pascal here with Francis Shot. Together we own stage left in Catherine Lombardi, restaurants in New Brunswick, New Jersey. We are here to bring you the inside track on food, wine, and the finer things in life. Well, hello, mark. Hey Francis. Mark, we are not in New Brunswick, New Jersey today. We are definitely not in New Brunswick, Toto. We're not even indoors. We are outside at the Southern Smoke Festival in Houston, Texas. Restaurant guys, on location. Uh, we're thrilled. To be down here, we're gonna interview a whole bunch of chefs. There's a ton going on down here in in Houston, but chefs from across the country have come, come down here for the Southern Smoke Foundation, which is a wonderful organization that we'll link to in the notes. We've done a show with them, but they invited us to come and you never know what happens and the festival's about to get started and the restaurant guys are about to get started. Really excited about this. With you. We've been in Houston since last night and we went out to lunch and then dinner and then dinner, and then drinks, and then breakfast and then, and then Rebecca pastries. Well, so, uh, Rebecca Mason, who's the pastry chef we're gonna interview, sent us pastries to the hotel. It's good to be a restaurant guy. It's really, really good to be a restaurant guy. So anyway, we're not gonna have our normal banter go on as long as it normally does because we have a lot of people to talk to today and, uh, this. Maybe one of our first podcasts that appears on YouTube. It may not. If things don't go well, but we're gonna try and that'll be a new thing. If you'd like to see more Restaurant Guys podcasts on YouTube, email us at the guys@restaurantguyspodcast.com. But we're going to take a quick break. We're gonna come right back with our first guest. You ready to go strap in?

the-restaurant-guys_2_10-04-2025_150234: 4:54

So, finding great chefs to talk to is like shooting fish in a barrel here at the Southern Smoke Festival in Houston. We have with us Aaron Bludo. He's the chef owner of Bludo. He's also got navy blue and Bar bludo and per se, um. Uh, tremendous re and in, in folded spirit of full disclosure, we dined last night at his restaurant and had an amazing time. Aaron Bludo, welcome to the restaurant guys. Thank you. Thank you. Great to be here. We're, we're so happy to have you here. We'd say, welcome to Houston, but it's your city. Yeah. Welcome to Houston. Houston. Houston. Yeah. Well, well, um, uh, so I wanna start with dinner last night and we can talk more generally about you and about Houston. Um, but, uh, uh, we had, we've had an amazing time since we've been down here in Houston, and um, your restaurant was really a highlight and what we said to each other, and I said some of this last night, but. If we opened a restaurant in Houston, we'd want to accomplish a lot of what you accomplished right there. It's very much what we like. Elegant, but relaxed. It was, it was it. It is, and I'm gonna pay myself a big compliment here. Okay. It is, it is as much a restaurant, like our restaurant stage left as I've encountered, kind of outside of our restaurant. Yeah. Really, the feel, the, the vibe we want to have is the vibe you have. Thank you. The, the sound you have, the feel, the hospitality. It's all those things that we aspire to be. Wow. Wow. That is a huge compliment. Well, especially that, that, that, that compliment right there is saying, this is the restaurant we have, we try to create, you know, and I, I would probably come to your restaurant and say the exact same thing. Well, I hope so. Right? Yeah. Well, when you do, I mean, I, you know, at the end of the day, I think, uh, I, we aspire to be a restaurant that chefs want to come eat at. Mm-hmm. You know, I mean, I, I think about where I like to go eat and, you know. It, sometimes it ends up being way simpler than mm-hmm. What everyone expects me to want gravitate towards. Right? Yeah. Like, my wife and I go like, love having a meal at Hillstone just because it's so simple and, you know, executed well. Mm-hmm. You know, and I think, like, not to say that that's what we do. I mean, we, there's certain other twists and turns we incorporate, but yeah, that's kinda the fun of it. I, I think we, at the day one, we thought about what is the restaurant that I would want to eat on, you know, you know, it's funny, we talk about that all the time. So what you, what we start with, every project we do, every event we do, we first start with, okay, how do we make it great? How do we make it something we would want to go to? And then whether it makes sense financially, whether it makes sense as a, as an event, whether we can execute it. That all is secondary, secondary and tertiary. We'll figure it out. Later comes, comes after, okay, what do we do to make it great? And then how do we execute that? Yeah. Yeah. It's all, the rest of it comes after that first piece. I think that's a great place to start. Right. So you are not from here, right? Not so you're originally from the Pacific Northwest. You cooked in New York, you cooked all around. Um, it's one of the most highly regarded restaurants down here and highly regarded in the country. Thank you. What are you going for there and what's it like to open in, in Houston? What's the market like and is it changing? And we saw a, a really interesting cross section of people at your restaurant last night. Yeah, I mean, that's what I'm going for right there. Just being a, a restaurant that can satisfy so many, uh, desires and so many like. You know, it can, it, I always call it our restaurant, blue Dorn can be tight, uh, almost like a Swiss Army knife of restaurants. You can use it as a date night spot. You can use it as a, as a restaurant to have a business meeting. You can use it as a guy's night, girls night, you know, dinner with friends, whatever it is. And, and you know, I think that starts with like giving, giving guests the permission to do what they want to do. You know, we were, I was cooking for, uh. Scott, uh, tr Elli and, uh, Angie Rito from Don Angie right now. Mm-hmm. They're sitting, they're sitting next to y'all. And, uh, I started them off with caviar intentionally. Right, right. And then the, and then I finished'em off with a burger. That's right. And because I wanted to show them the, that this is kind of what we are. And like you can do all these things and we don't have white tablecloths, but mm-hmm. It can feel fancy and we, you know, but it can also feel, uh, feel laid back and relaxed. And I think that that permission, that, uh. To just do what you wanna do at our restaurants is, is, is the cornerstone of what we've created. You know, you worked for, when you were in New York, one of our favorite crests of all time. A guy by the name of Gavin Cason. Yes. And you know, his vibe is, listen, I'm really intense. I'm really, I really care about the results here, but I also care about how I do it and how I treat the people while I'm doing it. I totally got the sense from the people you work with that. Your hospitality goes beyond just the customer. That the, that the people who work for you are glad to be working for you. Is that, is that something you, you aspire to Abso Absolutely. And, and it's great. It's great. I, I saw you can do there, there's an F bomb on the way and you pulled it back at the last second. We don't need to do too much editing here. Um, no. I think, you know, and well, yeah, I worked for Gavin, I worked for Danielle, I worked for Douglas Keen and these were all chefs that. The reason why I worked for them is because I wanted to work for them. Mm-hmm. I believed in them. I aspired to be them. I studied them. Mm-hmm. I, you know, worked with them, worked for them. And that, you know, when you think about who you are today, you're a product of your experience and you're a product of the chefs that you've chosen to work for. And you know, Gavin's a great example of that. He treated me extremely well. I mean, he was, he was very hard to work for sometimes. Yep. Like,'cause he has high standards, but you know. And the SA at the, in the same breath, he would also take incredible care of you. If you showed up for him, he would show up for you. And he ended up showing up for me big time by giving me the, the opportunity to take his position. So, you know, one of the things that I think is very interesting, and we're in New Jersey, we're New Brunswick, New Jersey, and we've got a great community that supported us from the beginning. We also benefit from being 45 minutes outside of New York City. So we have all the resources of that. But as we have interviewed so many people over the decades, we've been doing this show. and the places we visited, one of the things we realize is in New York, if you're operating the top of your game in New York or LA or in Paris, or you're operating a restaurant on an international stage, and you're probably not gonna be around as long as Gramercy Tavern, you're, and if you are, somebody else is gonna own it, and somebody else is gonna be the chef. but it strikes me that. You can't really be part of the community. I might, I might be, I'm missing somebody in New York, but you're not part of the local community because not only do the restaurants change so much in those big cities and the high stakes pokers changes the restaurants in those, but the people who are there, there are plenty of people who live in Manhattan their whole lives, but the people who live in New Brunswick, New Jersey, the people who live in Houston, the people who live in even Philadelphia are, are families that are there for a long time. It's a different kind of a thing when you operate in this sort of a market. Was that what you were looking for when you came to Houston? I don't know if it was what I was looking for, but it's what I realized I had to become, you know, and we realized that, you know, staying power comes through. What I call our biggest award we've ever received, which is having regulars. That's great. Yeah. I mean, yeah. You know, look, uh, regulars in a bottom line. Look, you can, all the awards in the world don't add up to those two things because without those two things, uh, you don't exist. You know? And I think that's, that's it. And, and a regular can be, you know, we have regulars and they come to the same festival every year. And we see them every single year, and we've seen them every single year for 15 years. Right? Yep. They're regulars, right? Yeah. That's, they're, they're coming, they're they're coming every day. And then of course, you have people who you see once a week or once a month, or every birth rate day times a week. There's different definitions. There's different definitions to the word regular, but at the same time, you know, you feel it, you feel that person who is committed to your restaurant in a, in a way that makes you wanna be committed to them. Absolutely. And I think it starts with, uh, giving your team. The opportunity to create those relationships and pushing them to do that. And because, you know, I think at the end of the day, like, look, we're people, pe we're people, people, people persons. I got what? Sorry. Why am I saying people? People, people. Yeah. People, people. Right. We're, we're humans that love to take care of other humans. We love to see people's, you know, the instant gratification of making someone happy. Uh, and you know, when you can allow your team members to make those connections as well as yourself. And, and then, you know, when I do end up walking through the restaurant, one of the first places I go to, you know, if I'm going to bar Bluehorn or Navy Blue or, or if I walk into Bluehorn after having not been there for a minute, um. I'll go right to the gm. Who do I need to say hi to? Who have you made a connection with that I can make a connection with? It's funny, we have two restaurants. One's on the first floor, one's on the second floor. Yeah. So it's easy for us to get from, from restaurant to restaurant. That's nice. It is great. But I definitely do that. I walk in the door, I'm like, who do I gotta see? Who do who? Who do I, who do I want? Who wants to see me? Yeah. As much as, who do I gotta see? Who wants to see me? Who wants, who's, who's. dinner's gonna be elevated by me going to their table and talking. Absolutely. And who, you know, you go to the people that are on the front lines that are mm-hmm. Having those conversations and that, that are, you know, because not everyone wants you to come over like, hi, I'm Aaron Hor. Let me, let me interrupt your conversation. Sometimes you're in an intense business meeting. Yeah. You know, sometimes you know, you, you gotta read the room. Exactly. Gotta read the room. And if you already have somebody reading it for you, that's makes it better. Exactly. That gives us a, so, so I want to ask you about coming down here and opening in Houston. Why did you choose Houston and what did you find in the community here when you came to Houston? So I married, my wife is from Houston. Oh, now I get it. Yeah. They, they say that, uh, Houston women are like salmon. They come home to spawn. That's amazing. And that's what we did. Well, I think I also, the, the idea of raising, uh, kids in New York City is the most terrifying thing ever. And I, those who do it, like all hats off to you. You are amazing people. I am not one of those people to, and you met your wife in New York Met when you were cooking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We both worked, uh, for Daniel Ballou. Yeah. Wild. So not at the same restaurant. She, she worked in, uh, operations at, uh, corporate, but, uh, we got to know each other and, uh, you know, got married and we're looking like, where's our next step? I come from a small family in Pacific Northwest. She comes to a large Greek family down here in Houston and just do the math. It made more sense to be down here, but also. As taking those trips. And it was right around the time when, uh, Anthony Bourdain did the No Reservations episode on Houston Uhhuh and sort of started to expose the, the cultural diversity that the city has to offer, the, the dining culture that this city has. Because I mean, we don't have mountains to go climb lakes to go swimming. Mm-hmm. Or, you know, uh, the Puget Sound to go kayaking. We've got. Great restaurants, and that's, it's one of the most amazing things about the city. And, you know, we learned about it firsthand when, when, uh, COVID, uh, hit, we had to open up in the middle of it. We, you know, we had signed the lease, we had taken all of our, you know, all the investments. Uh, and there was no way other than forward, no turn back. There was no turning back. No, no turn back. I, I had actually. March 14th, I was sitting in an empty restaurant that I just demolished. Like what do I do? Uh, but you know, we found a way forward. We opened in August of 2020 and one of the big, we were the, we had a very captive audience because we were the first restaurant opening post close down or lockdown or whatever, right. And it was this just, people were coming in and having these experiences. And I think for a lot of what you see in. That we do at Blue Dorn today. We wanted to be that Swiss army knife of a restaurant because everybody needed that excitement back. Yeah, yeah. Everyone needed to fall back in love with dining. Yep. Um, and we were so ready to, and they Right. And they were, and they wanted to, I mean, they wanted to be in your restaurant. Yes. They wanted to be out amongst each other, you know? Yeah. And that's, and we created that. And that's why, so to answer your question, why Houston? Well. Yeah, I didn't choose Houston. Houston chose me. Right. Nice. But, but, uh, but in, in a bigger way. I was so excited that to have ended up in Houston and that this was where we opened up because it could not have been more perfect for what we were trying to accomplish. You know, we talked yesterday to, we at the restaurant, we talked to your partner, uh, Sharif Moji. Yeah. And he, he kind of, we kind of said the same thing. Like, so, so you, you're, you're born in Senegal. You come to New York City, you're working in New York City, and Aaron, you know, convinces you to come to Houston. He's like, yeah. Best decision of my life. That's wild. Right. You know, it, it, it's, I, I'll tell you, I was so nervous. I was not only nervous for him, uh, while I was nervous to see if he would like it, but I knew that he was gonna fall into work. I was nervous for his family to like it. Yeah. He moved, he moved down with three kids. Like one of them, uh, you know, was, uh, 10 at the time. Yeah. And like, wow. You know. To move a family and a big cultural shift. Yeah. And all because of me was, was the most terrifying thing in the world. What if they didn't like it? Right? What if they didn't? What if that didn't work out? So thankfully you're not, you're not just opening your own restaurant, right? you're impacting other people's lives. So many lives. So many lives. And for me, that's, it's one of the biggest drivers, one of the biggest motivations. You know, sometimes you're like. Oh, it's so hard to get up in the morning like, man, I have 300 people that depend on me to get up every morning and to be my best each and every day. So did you find that the culture was down here, both of work of people who are working and of the diners, were there cultural changes you needed to make coming from running restaurants in New York with New York employees to. Running a restaurant down here in Houston. Well, I will tell you from the diners, the, the biggest, I mean, I worked on the Upper East Side, so if you, if you can make it on the Upper East Side, it's not even not Can you make it in New York? You make it anywhere. Yeah, you make it on the Upper East Side, you can make it anywhere.'cause man, you have some discerning diners up there. But yeah, for sure. Uh, but the cultural changes, uh, I think for, for the, the, our team members, we, we had to create our own culture. Um, we wanted to, you know, and it's not that the culture here wasn't where it needed to be. We, we just wanted to create something that was our own, um, and, and really emphasize hospitality, emphasize, you know, start with, talk about hospitality towards each other. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And if we treat each other the right way, then it will just be passed on to our guests. Was that the culture that existed in Houston already with, with staff? I think so. With certain, with certain restaurants, but, you know, I mean, I think that's been a shift across the country. Mm-hmm. Even in New York. I mean, I think, uh, we were starting to see those changes, like right around pre pandemic in some places. Some places. No doubt. and also, you know, the other thing is we, we were also going from being, you know, employees mm-hmm. You know, but executive employees. Yep. To being. Uh, business owners. Yeah. And you know, now all eyes are on you and you have to, you assume a lot of different things. So, and every glass that breaks, you pay for it. That's very different. Exactly. It's not just that, you know, we were 26 when we opened our first restaurant, so a bunch of the people that came to work for us had worked with us. Right? Yeah. And now you're in charge of everything and you had a different perspective and you had to create a different relationship with those people than you had when you were amongst them. Yes, yes, yes. And, You can't be the, the enforcer anymore. Mm-hmm. You, you are the tap on the shoulder. Hey, you need to tell them they can't do this. Right. You know what I mean? Right. And I think that was so to see if I had to change, I can't really tell you because I was going through so many changes personally on mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Uh, probably for a good reason,, that it all sort of happened at once. It's mm-hmm. Because I'm not, I couldn't be my, the same person I was in New York as I was owning a business in Houston. Can I just say, we've talked a lot about how you've brought a, a change to the culture of Houston, and I'm gonna tell you that I know that Houston has had an effect on you 100%. But, but, but I'm gonna tell you how outwardly I know this. You are currently wearing a shirt that it has buttons that have pearl tops on, so it's not quite the 10 gallon cowboy hat, but you know, we can see it. You're getting there. Rough. We can see pearl snaps, Pearl snaps. Pearl snaps, snaps. That's what it's all about. I will tell you also, it is a performance fabric, so you know what I mean. Sweat all day today. It'll, uh, I have an alternate shirt for later in the day. Yes, yes, yes. I, I mean, I used to wear those, you know, uhhuh, I, I'd wear a hundred percent cotton or something like some, you know, fabric like that. Now I'm wearing, you know, this like nylon performance fit, wicking wick, sweat wicking wick shirt wicking. Yeah. Gotcha. I have one final observation on your restaurant. I'm really curious about it. We noticed that we went to, to dine at your place fairly late last night we were there fairly late and as the night wore on, it got quite late. Your place kind of got busier and busier and what we are seeing up in North Jersey and in a few other places where we've been is we're seeing the, the nights are earlier and earlier there was that article in The Times that said, you know, six o'clock is the new eight o'clock. And I'm wondering if, is that a Houston thing? And I wonder if that was affected by how long we stay closed up in the Northeast. That dining patterns changed up there. Is there a difference? North to south? Or did we just catch that on an odd night? You caught it on an odd night. Okay. I think, well, it's also something smoke weekend, so mm-hmm. There's a, there's a, right. So a lot of restaurant people who we like to eat out late. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And then, you know, it's also, I, I think it was Friday night too, that, that probably had a pull, but No, I've definitely seen diners coming like earlier, earlier, earlier. Yeah. We, I mean we, for us. Eight o'clock was the suite reservation and now seven o'clock is the suite. Yeah, a hundred percent. A hundred percent. Yeah. I mean, for, we, we, we have babysitters when we go out, so. Mm-hmm. My wife and I are like, well, we can't be out till past 11. You know, there's things like that. See, we like to go out after work, so this is really for us. Used to be when we went out after work. We were going to, you know, the places that stayed out till two o'clock in the morning. Yeah. We were going for oysters or, or somewhere in the city. Yeah. You know, that served food at two in the morning'cause we were busy until midnight or one o'clock. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. No, and, and during COVID, I remember with CO it was a later crowd for sure. Mm-hmm. Like right afterwards, like right after we got kind of like past all that, because I think. No one had to get up for work in the morning. Yeah. Or they didn't necessarily have to put pants on to get on the zoom call. We had the, we had the experience of people being home from work. So in a town where, people living in the apartment building next to us would just come, you know where it's four 30 and so 25 year olds are eating at four 30, we're like. You're 25, we'll see you in six hours. Yeah, yeah, exactly. You know, what are you doing here? Having lunch? So, is, is Houston changing? Are different people moving in or is it very stable? It seems to be the hot city right now. I mean, it's definitely, it's been very hot. Um, I think, I think we've gone through a lot of changes post COVID. I think it's, I think it's starting to level out a little bit. Yeah. Like we had a few, like I think last year was like the most openings that. Uh, this city's ever seen. Um, and this year is a little bit less and next year is gonna be a little bit less than that. I think. Uh, you know, I think, I don't know. Um, it feels pretty stable right now, to tell you the truth. Well, alright. I, we don't have a lot of time left, but Mark, you wanna, yeah, so I, I guess what I want to ask is, since we're sitting here, how'd you get involved with Southern Smoke? How did this become an important place for you to be? A few reasons. Um, Chris. Has been the biggest supporter of me, um, since I, even since before I arrived, since he heard an inkling. I was looking at a property. I saw him out at, uh, a bar with my wife and I, it was during Christmas. We were down visiting. I was still in New York, and he just gave me the biggest hug. He's like, I hear you might be coming down here, and I can't wait. Like, wow, that, you know, this is when we were competitors, or I was a prospective competitor. And to see him welcome me in the way that he did was so incredible. He's like, I want to. When you move down here your first year, I want you to come to Southern Smoke I want, and I was like, you know, so I didn't even have a restaurant, the first Southern Smoke I did. Um, you know, also, uh, we have, we had some mutual friends, a really close friend of mine, um, was one of the reasons he started Southern Smoke with the MS. Society involved and the first one. Mm-hmm. And, uh, that was a big deal and it just, it just felt so right. So anyway, he had me out, uh, a no-name chef from New York doing, uh. I think I did, uh, fried, uh, pig head sliders, you know what I mean? And it was, it was so amazing and I just knew that, you know, not only that, but what it supports and what it stands for and how it just enriches our industry in so many ways and points out all the ways that we need to be better and proposes actual solutions is exactly why I want to be involved in it, and why I want to, you know, shop from the rooftops to, to get as many other people involved as possibly can. And to see it continuously grow more and more and to see it become this national juggernaut of our industry, it, it couldn't make me happier. Well, Aaron Bludo, now you are a name somebody from Houston and, uh, you, I think your life is a little different than maybe when you first got to Houston. Uh, restaurants are great. Congratulations to all your accomplishments. Thank you. Uh, uh, bigger and better things are in your, in your future, I'm sure. Oh, man. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much. Thank you both. Great having you on the show. Thanks, man. Oh, this has been amazing. Thank you, man. Thank you. Have a great one. Thanks brother. Thanks for taking the time. We appreciate it. Thank you. It was awesome.

Francis: 26:15

Okay, so we've had all sorts of savory chefs here, but, um, Rebecca Mason founded Fluff Bake Bar in 2011. She now has a brick and mortar shop here in Houston. She poisoned us with wonderful pastries this morning and has showed up with a little. A pop of ice cream and you're the only one to come. Brand and gifts so far. So you're our favorite. So you're the winner.

Rebecca: 26:35

Um, that's because all I do is win.

Francis: 26:37

I love it. Yeah. Cheer we're gonna eat. These will cheers. You tell people what we're eating while we eat them. For

Rebecca: 26:41

sure. We did a pano shuck lott ice cream pop.

Francis: 26:44

Oh my god.

Rebecca: 26:45

So it's a croissant ice cream. It's dipped in chocolate, and then it's got a toasty crunchy croissant topping, like

Francis: 26:53

the almond thing from the good humor truck.

Rebecca: 26:55

Is it?

Francis: 26:56

Well, but better

Rebecca: 26:57

but better. Yeah. Did you ever

Francis: 26:58

have a good humor when you were a kid? Um,

Rebecca: 27:01

no.

Francis: 27:01

Mm,

Rebecca: 27:02

I always got like bomb pops and stuff from the truck. That's good. That

Mark: 27:05

was good humor. Oh, is it? Same truck, isn't it?

Rebecca: 27:06

Okay. I don't know. Post it on in crunch.

Mark: 27:09

Yeah. If somebody, if the truck was playing music and they drove around your neighborhood, that counts as good humor.

Rebecca: 27:14

Okay, cool. Then yeah, then I did uhhuh. Yeah, we chased those guys down.

Francis: 27:19

Absolutely.

Rebecca: 27:19

Gimme my ice cream.

Francis: 27:21

Alright, so. You are known for being one of the best bakers, one of the best pastry chefs around. And we agree and we did our research to make sure that we knew we absolutely,

Mark: 27:30

we took one for the team and we Right

Francis: 27:31

ordered a box of pastries, a box of hotel, of

Mark: 27:33

pastries for this morning to be delivered to our hotel. But I

Francis: 27:35

also sent you a surprise then. You sure did. Yeah. So I wanna tell you, so that you, you, what I read in our research said you are known for doing french pastry technique with nostalgic American, you know Yeah. Rustic stuff and savory things to the barbecue. You sent us a barbecue croissant.

Rebecca: 27:50

I did. I didn't think

Francis: 27:51

that was possible. It is, it was amazing. Well,

Rebecca: 27:53

it wasn't just barbecue. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It was Franklin barbecue brisket.

Francis: 27:59

Yeah. Nice.

Rebecca: 28:00

From our friend Aaron in Austin.

Francis: 28:02

Oh my God.

Rebecca: 28:02

And then we put a little provolone and a little golden's mustard and roll it up and bake it. Yeah.

Mark: 28:07

Are you freaking kidding me? You didn't just roll it up. I'm not. You put it in a, in a croissant. That, okay. So Francis, were you

Rebecca: 28:12

wearing half of it? Yeah, I was just, not to

Mark: 28:14

say so. Francis was in my room and he tore a piece of the croissant'cause I, he was being courteous and not just taking a big old bite, but. This area under where Francis was sitting now is a a,

Francis: 28:27

a damaged site. All of you, all of you should know and listen on. If you got your croissant from the supermarket and you just ate it and didn't explode in flake of pastry everywhere, it's a's croissant. It's a croissant. But most people joke. And here's the, I know a lot. Places that make pretty good croissant uhhuh, but when they put savory ingredients in the croissant, it falls apart. Mm-hmm. Yours was as flaky and explosive and pastry and then it had barbecue in it. You crazy woman. That's how you do it.

Rebecca: 28:52

Do you, have you guys talked to Erin Fis yet? No.

Francis: 28:55

No.

Rebecca: 28:55

So Erin Fis during COD, she gave me the title of honorary pit master. About once a quarter I'll drive to Austin and get stuff from Erin, but I typically get fis, blood Brothers and Truth here in town. But Erin introduced me the other day as the most important woman in Texas barbecue. And I like laughed hysterically.

Francis: 29:19

I love it.

Rebecca: 29:19

But it's like, I really like, we do K Cheese, we do Bri, you know, we'll do,

Mark: 29:24

you're doing something. Nothing. Nobody else is doing cheese

Rebecca: 29:26

sandwiches. Yeah. And. It started out doing it during COVID so I could support my barbecue friends. Right, right. So I could buy like a whole brisket or five pounds of chopped beef and or whatever and introduce it to my neighborhood. Yeah. Right. And so, and now it's about once every couple months'cause we do Saturday morning specials, Uhhuh. So these are items that are savory and um. Day only happened that it's Saturday morning and so it's

Francis: 29:56

savory Saturdays. And other than you don't do savory the other day, week. Yeah. We're pretty happy with

Mark: 30:00

savory Saturdays today. Yeah. I, on a

Francis: 30:01

Saturday can

Mark: 30:02

typically, but we're also happy with Sweet Saturdays. Mm-hmm.

Rebecca: 30:04

Yeah. Well, I mean we do, yeah, we do that all the time. We typically sell, I mean, we can sell out the fastest sellouts 38 minutes. Um Wow. But we've had lines that go, like, sometimes we'll do a guest chef, we'll have lines down the street. It's insane. it started out where I would bring the chef in. Right? Like before COVID every weekend we had a guest chef. Right. Okay. Uhhuh. And now we do it once every few weeks or something, just because I feel bad. My friends are understaffed and my, and I know the cost of goods and I feel bad asking'em, but they're starting to come to me now again. Which now I feel comfortable.

Francis: 30:40

So when you say you bring in chefs, you bring in savory chefs, Uhhuh, so, and then they, and you put their food in and you work together? Yeah. So like

Rebecca: 30:46

two weeks ago we had, uh, Manny from, um, Temo. Mm-hmm. I think I said it right. Anyways, so he did like a, a chili achilles croissant. Like he was making chili achilles with smoked brisket and the chips and the salsa and all that. And then we stuffed it in a croissant, like we did that to order, or we did, um. I can never say it. The corn fungus, the wida Coe. We leche. Yeah. So we did that and Jinx owe each other a cookie.

Francis: 31:14

You made us do it. I did. That's the only Spanish Mark speaks right there. That that was it. Right.

Rebecca: 31:18

So we put that in a qui. So. Or like a few weeks ago we, that

Francis: 31:22

sounds like a great ingredient. We like coqui. Sounds perfect. Wait, ke That like Coch stealing that ke, where

Rebecca: 31:30

were you? Like I'm next time

Francis: 31:31

around.

Rebecca: 31:32

Yeah.

Francis: 31:32

Stealing that come. Well, it's better than better have a wheat like coqui. Hold on a second. But you should put as a parenthetical under it, corn smut pie. That's also what it's called. I like that. That's even better.

Rebecca: 31:42

That goes with the vibe, the fluff.

Francis: 31:44

Yeah. I like it. But you should have both like the high end and then the, you know, the high and left.

Rebecca: 31:48

Um, yeah, for me, it was, it's interesting for my customers, my customers love it, right? I had a chef friend from Juno, Juno, Alaska, come down, right? They're never gonna go to Juno. Right. But they're gonna get to eat Bose food. Right. But also for my staff. So my staff is gonna come in on a Friday and they don't know if they're gonna, I don't know, cut short rib or scoop cookies, right? It's, it's this cool thing. I've learned I didn't do savory or cooking. Mm-hmm. In culinary school I just did straight up pastry.'cause who needs to learn to cook? Right. Right. But I've learned to cook. Right, right. And now a lot of Saturdays I do the savory stuff.

Francis: 32:29

So, uh, so you went to the Cordon blue, you got a, a pastry diploma from Cordon Blue, right.

Rebecca: 32:33

Uhhuh, we,

Francis: 32:34

we, both of us, we, we, no, we, yeah. All right. and then you come back and we can talk about the trajectory of your career Uhhuh, but. And look, it's funny in the show, especially when we travel somewhere, you'll hear us talk chefs and we're always like, oh my God, your food's so good. But the fact of the matter is those are the only people we bring in the show, right? I don't think your food's so good. If we, if we think your food stink on a damn show, if we food, I've food invite them on the show. So, uh, it's, but I bring you on the show.'cause the show your food's amazing, but this is. pastry is a unique thing and I, I have seen in New York, especially in New York, New Jersey, that area, some pastry shops where they get famous for a thing and then they get lines and then the quality goes down. Oh yeah. Because they're building'cause they're making a thousand of those things. Yeah. And they have, yeah. When really,

Mark: 33:20

when really they should be making the 75 a a day that they were always making or

Francis: 33:23

150 or whatever. Right. So, but your food is absolutely, everything they had today was top notch. Not too sweet, perfectly balanced. Like real tension there. Good use,

Rebecca: 33:32

good use of salt,

Francis: 33:33

uh, salt. But in the cookies especially, yes. I'm salt I that, I'll tell you something.

Mark: 33:37

I love salt. So many people don't use salt in their baking. I see it. Honestly, I see it even more than in pastry. I see it in bread.

Rebecca: 33:47

Yeah.

Mark: 33:47

Put a little bit of salt in there.

Rebecca: 33:49

Yeah. And

Mark: 33:49

it's gonna be, and you're gonna just brighten it right up and make it delicious.

Rebecca: 33:53

Salt and acidity are your friends. Absolutely. Like I've been known to like, we'll make fillings for. The filling for poptart. Right? Like strawberry filling for poptart. Throw some fricking citric acid in there. Absolutely. Yeah. Right. And brighten it that, tank it. Make it

Mark: 34:08

pop. Yeah. All right, Rebecca, we don't have a lot more time. Well, that thank, stuck. I'm kidding. Thank you so much for coming here. But I wanna know, how did you get involved with Southern Smoke? How'd you get involved with this? So, I, this festival and Chris, uh,

Rebecca: 34:23

Chris didn't know this till a couple years ago. I'm actually a recipient. Um. In in 2020, I had a really, can I say I had a shitty landlord who did all the construction on the new'cause I moved in 2020, he did all the construction without permits and I got shut down for illegal construction. Oh no. I had to do$40,000 in corrections. I was shut down for 99 days. We're talking like June to, or I opened back up before Halloween and Lindsay texted me and she goes, apply for Southern smoke because. I was like, I don't, I don't have any income.

Mark: 34:58

Mm-hmm.

Rebecca: 34:58

And it's fricking COVID and I'm

Mark: 35:01

losing, it's almost over. And I, yeah.

Rebecca: 35:02

And, um, so they actually gave me a small grant to help me, like pay my rent and stuff, which was super fricking helpful. So I did

Mark: 35:10

not know that story when I, when I asked you the question. So I, so I love that it came out.

Rebecca: 35:14

I am, I mean, I believe in what they do. I am a big, big proponent for the mental health. I preach it to my staff. I, one of my kids uses it. I mean, um, employees. Mm-hmm. I'm sorry, I call'em my kids. I'm probably, I'm pretty sure at this point I've given, I've done bake sales and cookie, like we've done cookie sale. We, and I'm pretty sure I've given back like three or four times the amount that they gave me. That's,

Mark: 35:42

but

Rebecca: 35:42

it's never gonna be enough.

Mark: 35:43

But that's, but that's what it's about. Right?

Rebecca: 35:45

Right. It's never enough to me. Somebody's there

Mark: 35:47

when we need them.

Rebecca: 35:48

Yeah.

Mark: 35:48

And then we're there for somebody when they need us. That's exactly, that's, that's what makes the world go around. Yeah. And you want to keep living in this, the crazy world we live in right now. Yeah. The, the way that's gonna get better is if you take care of me when I need to be taken care of, and I take care of you when you need to be taken care of. Yeah.

Rebecca: 36:03

like I said, for me it's. I not only support it, but I want to give back to the people who, who helped me

Francis: 36:10

and when you need to take care of somebody, the best way to do that, I find is with pastry, is that spectacular Oreo cookie thing you brought us today. Oh my. Oh, the SHO. Oh my god.

Rebecca: 36:20

AKA, the sugar Hooker Oreo, because we got a cease and desist from Nabisco and we had to rename it.

Francis: 36:25

I love it.

Rebecca: 36:25

Um, yeah, it's. I call cookies. I call them edible hugs.

Francis: 36:29

They are. Yes, a hundred percent they are.

Rebecca: 36:32

That's what they are.

Francis: 36:32

Well, so listen, if you are anywhere near Houston, Texas, you gotta come and go to the Fluff Bake Bar and check out some of the stuff we're talking about. Please do. Pretty amazing. Rebecca Mason, thank you so much for being with the restaurant guys today. Oh my God, thank you. And thanks for the ice cream and the pastries. You're our favorite. Yes. Alright,

Rebecca: 36:48

thanks. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thanks Ira. Have a

Francis: 36:50

great

Rebecca: 36:51

day. You too. Appreciate you guys. Thank you. Appreciate you right back. Thanks for being,

the-restaurant-guys_4_10-04-2025_165911: 36:55

Southern Smoke Foundation provides us with one of the greatest opportunities to grab local chefs and chefs from other places. We have Kyle Nall with us. He's the chef and co-owner of Birch. And culinary director at Stone Bank. Farm in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. But here we are in Texas, together all the way down to Texas. Deep in the heart of Texas. We both traveled, but here we are together. Yeah, it's amazing. Yeah, dude. So I have to say, one of the things, first of all, we heard wonderful things about what you're doing. You worked at a number of places in New York where we have some mutual friends, and the people you work for, uh, are people we respect a great deal. you're in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. I think one of the most interesting things about cities, and I think Houston sort of falls into this about restaurant cities, is when people go to second cities and third cities and you know, Milwaukee had no food scene 20 years ago, right? And it's full of people who have, like you trained and, you know, risen to high levels in big cities and then said. Screw this. I want to go back to a more manageable, smaller, smaller community. Definitely one of the things that's happened in the last 20 years. Right. Tell us. And I think people training in big cities and then moving back to community after COVID, I think it was like a huge, like, uh, spearhead forward with with things like that. Tell us about Milwaukee and why you went there and what you found when you went there. My wife actually grew up in Milwaukee and that's, that's the tie Uhhuh. Um, I grew up in Birmingham. We were in New York together for about 13 years and I just opened. The Equinox Hotel was Steven Starr probably six months before COVID. In that six months we had our first child, Aiden, he's born in NYU and then two months later we sh shut the whole world closed. Right? Um, yeah, that was it. And if you were in New York, you weren't open for, you weren't open again for a long time. I mean, truly, like I'm, we didn't move to Milwaukee until August that year. And when I moved to Milwaukee, I was like, oof, this is a different world than, yeah. It was, was Milwaukee Open? Uh, definitely more. Yeah. Um, and like the restaurant industry people were definitely worked doing takeout and stuff like that. Mm-hmm. We're in New York where I was, we stayed at, uh, my sister-in-law's lake house in New Jersey for five months. Wow. We thought we were gonna be out there for two weeks and every week I would talk to my director at, at uh, star. And then it was like, call me back next week. Call me back next week. And we, uh, enjoyed life. Went to Costco once every two weeks. Yeah. And that was it. No. Bought tons of food. There was an upside to it, but I mean, it was terrifying. We were closed. Our source of income was shut down. We, we didn't realize, if, you know what we had spent our whole lives building was gonna evaporate. Yeah. But truthfully, especially for me, I had older kids. Right. So I got to, that's reconnect with my older kids. was a great time to get everybody together. I mean, he was obviously a newborn and I spend every single morning Yeah. Or all day, every day with them. And which is not a chef's life, right? No. And that's not how, it's amazing. Like, and it chef's kids don't grow up that way normally. And I met, like, we have a, a 2-year-old daughter now, and it's like, it's interesting for me to see the difference in situations of like when he was that age. Mm-hmm. And when she is I really work hard to. I spent a lot of time with the kids. so there's a better work life balance out here than in New York. Even post COVID. You think? in Milwaukee, I mean, I, when we moved, I was really, uh, nervous personally of like, I was a New Yorker. I was a chef in New York. Mm-hmm. That was me. Yeah, I remember it becomes your personality to a certain extent. Yeah. I remember traveling to Birmingham the first time from Milwaukee and seeing people out and like I was always the New York guy for these people I grew up with in Birmingham and now is the guy from Milwaukee. And I, I didn't know how to accept it, but when I did, man, it's a just amazing, well, let me, let me clarify a little bit of what's going on. Birch's appeared on the New York Times list of the best restaurants in America. Yeah. Right. So you, you went out there and you didn't open a little corner pub. You know, you went and you did some amazing stuff out there. What was that like? What makes it one of the best restaurants in America? Tell us what Birch is like why did the New York Times include you on that list? You know? Well, my wife and I, we didn't go back to New York for like four years, but we'd go down to Chicago to get our fix, to be like, okay, we're in the city. But we'd be driving back up to Milwaukee and say, you know what, yeah, we miss a big, big city, but what we do inside the wall is a birch. That's up to us. Yes. And so like last two weeks ago, uh, a service director from EMP Raymond Lee was at a wedding in Milwaukee. Mm-hmm. He's like, Milwaukee's awesome. I walked around all day, but I walked in these doors and I thought I was in New York. And to me, like that's what's, to me, that's like the value that I have. I think everybody's experience in life gives them value. And to me, all of those experiences of working and receiving great hospitality is what gives me value. Well, I mean, 33 years later, so we opened our first restaurant 33 years ago and, you know, we talked about being market driven and seasonal, and, uh, we were in the middle of New Jersey, right. And people looked at us like, what's that? What do you mean you're gonna make a cocktail with an egg? Right? What? You know, they just looked at us like, like we were crazy. And it, and it, there was definitely a learning curve. But if it's delicious, it's like, I don't know, it's the most. Rewarding. Sad. I mean, everybody talks about, I love watching people happy eat. Sure. But like when you go moving to Milwaukee and people come to Birch, they're like, holy, well, you know, we used to say, and back in the day, we would say, you know, people would shake our hands on the way out of the door and it's like, oh, thank you very much. It was very nice. You'd be like, Uhuh not good enough. Yeah. We needed at least a few people at night. Now I'm talking the nineties and the aughts, right? Where people would say, this was a, what is this doing in the middle of New Jersey? Right. Well, that mean that's, that's that, that's it to a t. And to me, I say all the time, like, yeah, I want the food to be delicious, but when I talk to tables, it's, it's almost comical. I'll go from like this table, this table, this table in one night, and they're like, wow. The service and how we feel in this restaurant is like you just said, we seen, said, and that's what it's about. Just said, I think the most important quality a restaurant can have. How does it make you feel? Hundred percent. That it's all about. Okay. Because you can have the best food in the world. And if I feel intimidated or I feel like, it's pretentious. If I feel you're a jerk or I feel you're a jerk. Yeah. it doesn't matter. I mean, France and I used to talk about this, this great, uh, telian mecca that, that people loved, and we went to and we were like. I hate that place.'cause Yeah, the mixologists are, are making great drinks. Yeah. But it's about them and not us. But they're standing 25 feet away from you and not one of them made eye contact with anybody in the room. Right. Like, what, what are you doing? Yeah. What are you doing? You didn't connect at all. And like truly in this moment right here with y'all. It's pretty impressive how, looking at your eyes, you're like, oh, they're listening and talking. You know, like, but it's like, it's true. Like, I mean, I talk to so many people all the time and it's like, it's pretty easy to say this sucks or whatnot. But it's amazing to like feel a genuine connection or like you're listening and I mean, I know that's what y'all, y'all do, but still it doesn't matter. I mean, just like you're saying, best cocktail bar, Are you gonna make eye contact? Are you gonna take care of me? And like and it doesn't exist, I think even more and more. At the level where it should be even better. Well, people need it more. Okay. Yeah. We have gotten to a world where people need that connection in the restaurant more than ever. They're not getting it at work. Right. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. They're not, they're not getting it in unless they go to a, a place that's going to give them warmth. People aren't getting the warmth in other places that they were getting it. Right. Yeah. Anywhere. I mean, and everybody, you know, people talk about technology and. And I like, we can use those things to help us. Mm-hmm. uh, I don't wanna overthink anything, but people, I think we're irreplaceable. Mm-hmm. you can't feel like that anywhere else. And it's really cool to like, go see in a hospital or get a massage or any of these other types of hospitality. They're great, but they don't capture every, you're not eating there. You're not tasting stuff. You know what we always say to waiters, to the, to the hosts for example, right? Yeah. People come into the restaurant. One of the things I hate, you go into a restaurant whether it's busy or slow, and, and the first thing the waiter says is, do you have a reservation? I'm like, stop. Yeah. They're coming in your house. They're coming in your house. Make a human connection with eyeballs. We are in New York for the Welcome conference two weeks ago, and I had three team members from Birch with me and the last day before we flew out, and you know, I hate to. You know, we went to Lake Cuckoo for lunch. We are 45 minutes late. We walked in and we're like, we are so sorry that we're late, our Uber driver, blah, blah, blah. And she goes, she did our hands. I said, listen, we got you. You're, you're here now. That's all that matters. And like to me, like if every, every dish to me, I don't. Things were delicious. Mm-hmm. Sure. But that's not what it's about for me anymore. It's like, if it's good, it's good. Well, it needs to be delicious. Well, yeah. We start, it's a, we start at, it needs to be good. Right. I'm, I'm not going to a restaurant if it's not delicious. Right. Well, but, but honestly. You may go back to a restaurant where the food is mediocre, but the people are really nice and it's around the corner. Yeah, true. You go back to a bar where the bartender's great, but I'll have a bottle beer there.'cause that guy can't make a goddamn martini to save his life. Yeah, yeah. But, but I don't care how good the martini is. If you're a jerk, I'm not going back. Right. So it's about, like you said, a human connection. Right. Which I think you can make more of out in Milwaukee. I'll make one other observation is that. When we started in New Jersey in 1992, New Jersey, the, the average diner in Central Jersey was about six years behind the, the sophisticated diner in New York. Right.'cause there wasn't Instagram, there wasn't the internet. but hold on some of our diners, you know, worked in New York City. Yes. Came in, ate in New York City. Yes. Understood what we were trying to do. Absolutely. We had a sophisticated diner. But now, even if you are. In the middle of nowhere, people ha watch the food channel and they, they, and they, they, they want to experience and they're not saying, Ooh, don't put an egg in my drink. They're like, oh, I saw that on TikTok. Yeah, I wanna try that. We think, or we know at Birch, I had a re a restaurant in New York called Mayville for seven years and it was busy. Like we got a great New York Times review. It was, I mean, it was great, but I never felt like there was trust between. People came, industry people to eat delicious food. Sure. But at Birch, if we have a pop-up, if we do this, we do that. We have their trust. And it's a different feeling than, why do you think that? I don't know. And I, it's really like our first year we would do stuff and it was like, yeah, this was good. But now it's like we have a guest chef come, we sell it out. Like, and we don't do like a 60 seat, like we just make it part of our dinner service. Mm-hmm. And replace our tasting menu. So we have a la carte and then the special menu, and we'll do like 180 covers. Wow, that's great. And like, but it's, it's just, it's so interesting. It's like people, I think we achieve everything we want to every time. So people are trusting us. But it's like that, like, oh, I saw something that someone was eating an egg white and a drink. Y'all have that. People are like, you're ours. You're Milwaukee's restaurant. I love it. Right. I appreciate that. That's great. That's what you wanna be. So we read a lot about how Milwaukee for years had, it's an up and coming dining scene. Uh, should people go to Milwaukee for the food, do a culinary tour of Milwaukee Stand hotel? Yeah, I think so. For sure. Yeah, no doubt. Where should they hit besides your place? Uh, there's a restaurant called Zo Uhhuh. there's actually a bagel shop called Alley Boys and a couple, the husband worked at Meadow Wood for a long time and has like serious chops. And of course people say that all the time, but mm-hmm. It is like genuinely like to me it's a New York bagel that's like killer. Well, maybe we'll do a restaurant guys Meetup restaurateur in Milwaukee. Yeah. Restaurateur in Milwaukee. And we'll start off, off at Birch. That's great. Yeah. So we were talking about hospitality before I was watching another podcast that you were on, and I saw you talking about, you know, if, if it's been a crazy night and I haven't gotten to go out into the dining room and make a couple rounds in the dining room, I, I don't feel fulfilled. Right. I don't feel, I feel like I, like I didn't do it Right. Right. To me, it's, to me it's like really attention driven. Mm-hmm. To me, we always, like, people jokingly say like, if we have a bad night, which is like not really bad, it's just like, it wasn't completely fun. It's a very small percentage, and I'll say to everybody, like, but it happens. Listen, every, you know, uh, the, the, somehow the restaurant got overbooked somehow. Yeah. But something went wrong. I always say like, good thing we're professional. Mm-hmm.'cause it's still, it was still great. Right? Right. But if it's an amazing night, it says, people are like, oh, I feel like we're at a party at Kyle's house, you know? Mm-hmm. 90 seats and it's just everybody having a great time. If, if I'm not walking around and being able to do that, then like there's too much focus on something and the fun is there. That means there's not fun everywhere happening.'cause most of the time in Dish bit on, uh, grill Station, no matter where it is in the restaurant, it's all the same. Right. Different experiences. But truly like the, if you could like take a measure of someone's joy in their heart or how they're being fulfilled in that moment. The level is probably the same for everybody in the restaurant. You know, I, I was at a friend's restaurant in the Hamptons just last week, and, I felt bad for him. Okay. Famous chef, great restaurant food was amazing. but you could tell he was running. Sure. Okay. And he was, and he, and he made sure he spoke to everybody he needs to talk to, but you could just see him hustling back to the kitchen Yeah. To make sure that it wasn't all coming down right. And it was great. Food was great. He, he executed, but you could, you could feel that it wasn't, but I think like the, it wasn't that perfect night. The really top nights, there's that energy at the same time. Mm-hmm. People can see it and are like lit up with it. Know? Yeah, a hundred percent. It can be a great thing. It's, I always talk about like when I'm talking to sous chefs about riding or service staff at lineup, throwing the Frisbee, like, I like throwing the Frisbee. If you and I went outside and just started ripping it long ways, we couldn't, it wouldn't be very, there'd be no rhythm. So you build a rhythm up and then you just start letting it rip. Yeah. And then when you're doing that, it's like, wow, this is fun. And that's like eight o'clock on a Friday where like we're nailing it and just like. Having a blast. Well, dude, I wanna thank you for taking the time out of Southern Smoke to come and talk with us at the restaurant, guys, and, uh, who knows, maybe you'll see us in Milwaukee one of these days. Yeah, that would be awesome to have you for sure. Hey, if you're in New Jersey, frankly, if you're in New York City Yeah. And you don't get on that train and go 45 minutes to New Brunswick, New Jersey and walk those three blocks, we're gonna be pissed off. Okay. I'll be there, brother. All right, thanks a bunch. Yeah. Appreciate it. Thanks man. Yeah, thank you Kyle. Good to see you. That was awesome. Thanks. I'd love to have you all out there. Alright, love it. Grab a chip.