Melissa Hamilton (Saveur) on Community Feasts and Food Culture

Episode Description

This is a Vintage Selection from 2005. Chef, author, and Saveur editor Melissa Hamilton joins the Restaurant Guys to talk about community feasts, food culture, and the role shared meals play in bringing people together. The conversation centers on the joy of cooking for one another.

The Banter

Mark and Francis reflect on restaurant culture in the mid-2000s, touching on critics, clever reviews, and the era of the snooty maître d’—setting the stage for a broader discussion about how food and restaurants were experienced at the time.

The Conversation

The Guys welcome Melissa Hamilton, chef turned food writer and editor at Saveur. Melissa discusses community feasts, collaborative cooking, and how shared meals shaped restaurant culture and food writing in the early 2000s. The conversation explores food as a social act, the importance of gathering around the table, and how publications like Saveur supported these ideas.

The Inside Track

The Guys share why Melissa’s restaurant has long been one of their favorites and how her work bridges the restaurant world and food writing.

Guest Bio

Melissa Hamilton is a chef, author, and food writer who served as an editor at Saveur magazine. With experience in both kitchens and publishing, she brought a thoughtful, community-focused perspective to food storytelling in the early 2000s.

Timestamps

00:00 – Episode Start

 03:30 – Restaurant Reviews in the Mid-2000s

 08:40 – Melissa Hamilton Joins the Conversation

 12:40 – What’s Great about Saveur Magazine

15:15 – Community Feasts and Dinner Parties

 22:00 – Cohesive Articles and Themes in Saveur

35:00 – Wrap Up with an Amusing Ad 

Info

Ruth Reichl episode of The Restaurant Guys

https://www.restaurantguyspodcast.com/2390435/episodes/17591435-ruth-reichl-critic-in-disguise-v

Our Places

Stage Left Steak
https://www.stageleft.com/

Catherine Lombardi Restaurant
https://www.catherinelombardi.com/

Stage Left Wineshop
https://www.stageleftwineshop.com/

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Transcript

Francis 0:42

Good morning, mark.

Mark 0:43

Good morning, Francis.

Francis 0:45

Little under the weather this morning.

Mark 0:46

I, I'm a little sleepy.

Francis 0:48

How's your wife?

Mark 0:49

She's doing well. We're in the home stretch, as you know, and we had a little, I don't wanna say false alarm last night, but looking like it's, we're at any moment now for last month of her last, last little bit of her pregnancy here.

Francis 1:01

So for the first half of the show, we are the restaurant guys, and if Mark's wife starts to have a baby and the second half of the show, I'll be the restaurant guy. Fortunately, we have some guests lined up. We had a very exciting morning. This morning. We went downstairs.

Mark 1:12

Yeah. I got up a little too early today too.

Francis 1:13

Yeah. Eight 30. We had a meeting at eight 30 in the morning, uh, in downtown New Brunswick, which is where our restaurant is located.

Mark 1:18

Mm-hmm.

Francis 1:18

And we were given an award. The, what, what was it called? The It's award. It's award. New Brunswick City Market.

Mark 1:23

Best restaurant in New Brunwick, new Brunswick City Market. For, for those of you don't know, is an organization kind of like a Chamber of Commerce that, does a lot of, of really good work for New Brunswick.

Francis 1:32

We love awards. We need to find some place to put it up on the wall.

Mark 1:34

Mm-hmm. Alright.

Francis 1:35

We had last week on the show we had, um, Ruth Reisch come up. Mm-hmm. And we got a lot of email about, uh, Ruth Reisch. People really liked having her on the show because Ruth Reisch is, for those of you who don't know, she's the editor in chief of Gourmet Magazine. She was a longtime restaurant critic for the New York Times, and she also came out with a, a book Gar Garlic and Sapphires, which is about her tenure at the times when she went around in disguises and really had a profound impact. In changing the way that that New York Eats and New York restaurants are reviewed.

Mark 2:02

Yeah, she's a very interesting lady. She, she shed a little light for me on, on the other side, both with her book and, and the interview we did with her on the other side of how, how she views her job of, of reviewing restaurants and how, one of the things she said to me that really struck a chord was she said that she worries more about her good reviews than her bad reviews.'cause obviously we're more worried about the bad reviews than the good ones.

Francis 2:26

Yeah. We don't wanna get one.

Mark 2:27

Right. Exactly. Uh, but she said she worries more about the good reviews, than the bad reviews because she's more concerned about setting up a false expectation than for somebody, than for panning some poor restaurateur who, uh,

Francis 2:39

You

Mark 2:39

know, doing well.

Francis 2:40

And she was in a unique position because, I mean, and this is not an exaggeration at all. The New York Times restaurant critic is the most powerful restaurant critic in the world. Okay? And it's costs so much to open a restaurant in Manhattan and so much at stake. Um, and people really, it's the culinary capital of America. And so things that she does, did there. Really changed the way that America looks at restaurants and I think in many ways to the good. And one of the things

Mark 3:01

I, I think it also changed the way restaurants do their business. I think it changed the way restaurant, most restaurants anyway.

Francis 3:07

Yeah. But not everybody got the message. There was one of the things that she talked about was, you know, the, the, the critics prior to her. Had focused on French restaurants, Western European restaurants above 14th Street. Mm-hmm. That were, that fit a certain formula. And she started going to, to sushi places and she started going to, you know, and some of the four star restaurants in Manhattan today are obviously sushi places. Masa is, is is based in sushi. she sort of was the herald of that. And the other thing that she was the herald of. Well, she went to places in disguise by the end of, Brian Miller's tenure by the end of William Grime's Tenor, everybody knew

Mark 3:40

who he was.

Francis 3:41

Everybody knew who was.

Mark 3:41

Everybody

Francis 3:42

could whip out a pad, start writing on the table, right? And she went in disguise. And sometimes her disguises were discovered and sometimes they weren't. And she might be, she's, and the disguises she chose were a frumpy Midwestern lady. Mm-hmm. Or you know, somebody, a little eccentric,

Mark 3:56

somebody who's not gonna buy a$500 bottle of wine and, and be a favored customer

Francis 4:01

necessarily. And she went as both places. And I think that was really

Mark 4:03

mm-hmm.

Francis 4:04

A very interesting, because it made, I think that she is largely responsible for making New York restaurants, which set the tone for the country nicer.

Mark 4:12

Mm-hmm.

Francis 4:12

You know, and that. The new, New York was the last bastion of, you know, the, the stuffy Mat D.

Mark 4:18

Right.

Francis 4:18

Making you feel like, well, are you, there's that old in the Steve Martin movie where they, he wants to go to the fancy restaurant and they. They check his credit and they're like, uh, no, I don't think that you can order this steak. You are credit. Your credit will only buy you the chicken. You know, that's changed. And I think, I think it's also, it's to the

Mark 4:33

good for

Francis 4:34

sure. And when we talk with Ruth, we talked about it being a whole experience. Sadly, in today's New York Times, uh, there is,

Mark 4:40

somebody didn't get the message, Francis,

Francis 4:42

there is a satisfactory review, which is, and for those of you who it's like, that's no

Mark 4:46

star. Let lemme explain. Satisfactory. That was okay when you were in fourth grade.

Francis 4:50

Right?

Mark 4:50

Right. Not so good When the, when the New York Times were reviewing it. Yeah. It goes extraordinary. Four stars, excellent. Three stars, very good. Two stars. Good. One star satisfactory.

Francis 5:04

That's no stars.

Mark 5:05

Not, did not make the radar

5:06

and

Francis 5:06

what's below that

Mark 5:08

poor.

Francis 5:08

Yeah. Which is also no stars,

Mark 5:10

which is what you're gonna be if you get one of those reviews.

Francis 5:12

But I think what's really interesting, and I think what we can really celebrate is that, um. Overall restaurants, whether they're in New York or wherever they are, and whatever price rings they are from the local pizzeria to Chanterelle in Manhattan. Mm-hmm. Or Lebec fan in Philadelphia. They've gotten the message that people want to feel appreciated and people want to feel welcome and it's a restaurant's job to do that for the King of Spain. But it's also a restaurant's job to do that to the stranger.

Mark 5:35

Well, I think sometimes you have a greater responsibility as a, as a restaurant owner, you know that somebody can't really afford to be in your restaurant every day, and they're coming for that once a year special meal that they're gonna remember for the rest of your, their life. Mm-hmm. You have a, that's a big responsibility that a restaurant takes on at, at that moment.

Francis 5:52

So the snooty factor is not allowed. And the other thing about the snooty factor is it really makes for a great bad restaurant review because when you, you know what,'cause we all wanna be the restaurant critic when we're being ill-treated by the mm-hmm. By the, um, or the server or the waiter.

Mark 6:05

Right. The recent review that Frank Bruney wrote where, whereas the, the co check person gave him back his jacket, they said. Mated Honduras.

Francis 6:13

Yeah.

Mark 6:14

That's just beautiful.

Francis 6:15

Well, and in today's, in today's review, he talks about, it's about a a, a Japanese place and it's called coi. And he calls the waiters, the COI stone cops.

Mark 6:23

That's not good. That's not, that's not

Francis 6:25

great. That's

Mark 6:26

not good.

Francis 6:26

But here's where it starts, and this is the most important thing about the review. He pans the food and all. Mm-hmm. But what he says, he starts off the, he says, the gates of coy are patrolled by a man with a single clipboard and an aloof Maine. He makes sure that no one without a reservation slips past, but as snarling purpose is as much a messenger as a guard. He wants the diners who breached this sanctum to believe that they have made a heroically privileged. Passage,

Mark 6:47

right?

Francis 6:47

Yeah.

Mark 6:48

Mare D does not mean man, mean man at the door.

Francis 6:50

Yeah,

Mark 6:51

exactly. That's not what it stands for.

Francis 6:53

Um, and you know, there's just no reason to accept that, right? There's really no reason to accept that. I remember I got that in France and I had some, I've had many times over the many years, great experiences in little bistro's and. Mm-hmm. Three star Michelin restaurants.

Mark 7:08

I remember the name of the restaurant where we had a, the, that exact experience, you and I together

Francis 7:13

mm-hmm.

Mark 7:13

Was a Michelin three star restaurant. One, it supposedly one of the top 30 or 40 restaurants in the world.

Francis 7:18

And the food was great

Mark 7:19

was, we thought it was a restaurant called Ze. I, there, I outed them.

Francis 7:23

There you go. Oh, ze. And we did the same, I did the same thing at traditional. I actually walked out of a meal at traditional and the food was great.

Mark 7:29

Mm-hmm.

Francis 7:30

But I thought to myself, you know. Why would I come here to be abused,

7:33

to

Mark 7:33

spend$400 each for lunch

Francis 7:35

to be in the or, you know? And frankly, even if I'm going for a hamburger,

Mark 7:39

right, even if it was$6,

Francis 7:40

I come here to have good food, to have good service, and to enjoy it. Mm-hmm. And even if it's a fancy and expensive place, and this is the important factor, I come into this place with the beautiful chandeliers and the beautiful silver war and the beautiful place. To buy into it. Mm-hmm. You know, you've created this for me,

Mark 7:56

right.

Francis 7:57

To, to take part in it and to participate in it and to feel part of it.

Mark 8:01

And, and we're not talking about a mistake. We're not talking about somebody forgot something. We're not talking about just, just those, those things that happen in every restaurant. What we're talking about is an attitude

Francis 8:12

and, and that's really helped because restaurants are very important and a very important part of our communities. As we go forward in the future, when we come back, we're gonna be talking to the food editor from Savor Magazine, Ms. Melissa Hamilton, who has New Jersey roots actually, and a national influence. You're listening to the restaurant guys, you're back for the restaurant guys, mark and Francis from Stage 11 Restaurant, and we are here. We have a special guest with us today. We have Melissa Hamilton, who is the food editor of Savor Magazine, our favorite food magazine. Hello, Melissa.

Mark 8:41

Hi Melissa. Welcome to the show. Hey,

Melissa 8:42

thanks for having me.

Mark 8:43

We loved having you. your roots are New Jersey roots and, uh, we'd love to talk about that a little bit. Uh, how'd you get started in this business?

Melissa 8:53

Uh, let's see. My mom, uh, my mom was a great home cook. Mm-hmm. Uh, she got us all into food in the seventies when, um. I think most people in my neighborhood were eating, you know, peanut butter and jelly sandwiches in their lunchbox.

Mark 9:08

Right.

Melissa 9:09

And he was sending us to school with Pate sandwiches.

Mark 9:11

Nice. Now you grew up in the Lambertville area, Melissa?

Melissa 9:14

I actually grew up in, uh, new Hope, Pennsylvania.

Mark 9:16

New across

9:16

the

Melissa 9:16

river. But my father and his father, and you know, his family is from Lambertville,

Mark 9:22

so mm-hmm.

Melissa 9:23

And now we've all sort of hopped back over into New Jersey and he still lives in, uh, Lambertville. And I live in Stockton, New Jersey, just north.

Francis 9:32

Very

Melissa 9:32

nice lamb.

Francis 9:33

And, and that's, and your dad opened the restaurant Hamilton's Grill room in Lambertville, is that correct?

Melissa 9:38

That's right. We opened it together. Uh. After having done some food stints around, we each had sort of catering enterprises going on. Mm-hmm. And, uh, he had started a thing called Suppers at the Swan. It's a great, um, bar in Lambertville. Mm-hmm.

Francis 9:53

Called the

Melissa 9:54

Swan Hotel. He had designed it and then he, he designed the addition and then, and then we started doing these suppers for singles, which sort of morphed into, um, not just singles, but everyone wanted to come. And that sort of gave us the, our. Roots in opening the restaurant, which we had no clue of what we were doing, which is of course the only way we could have done

Mark 10:17

it. I was gonna say, if you have a clue, you don't open a

Melissa 10:19

restaurant. Oh my God. You know, we read all the books, don't open a restaurant. We talked all the local restaurateurs. They said, you've gotta shut in January'cause it's the dead month. Mm-hmm. And you get, you know, take your vacation then and here's all the things you don't want to do. And we were like, why would. Actually, why don't we do it our way? You know, Uhhuh,

Mark 10:38

it's great.

Melissa 10:38

Ended up we couldn't keep the place closed in January. The phone was ringing off the hook. I don't know. We lucked out. That's all I have to say. We co

Mark 10:44

It's not just luck,

Melissa 10:45

somehow lucked out.

Mark 10:46

It's a great, cozy, comfortable place. And actually, uh, I know Francis has used it as kind of a date place for the last 15 years or so. Hamilton Grill led in Hamilton's Grill and uh, my wife and I have, have gone down there forever. That was kind of our little. Before we had kids Yeah. Was kind of our little weekend respite place. Not too far to travel. Right. Could go down for one night, stay in a bed and breakfast. We always ate at Hamilton's when we were down there, including, uh, the weekend we got married.

Melissa 11:11

Uh huh. How That's great.

Mark 11:12

Yeah, it was

Melissa 11:13

very nice. Well, it happens to have a nice combo of having, I think was, uh, one of the best bars, uh, the boathouse across the, the little alley there.

Mark 11:21

What a great, what a great place to go and,

Melissa 11:24

and have a cocktail before.

Mark 11:26

Yeah,

Francis 11:27

the Boathouse is my, is my favorite bar next to my own in New Jersey. Yep. And, uh, I would say normally something like, we're gonna put it up on our website, but it's very small and I don't want it to get crowded, so I'm not telling.

Melissa 11:36

Alright, so we're not gonna talk about that.

Francis 11:37

No, it's actually right across from, and

Melissa 11:39

also they, you know, they've got such attitude there sometimes that they, you know, they, they won't let, uh. You know, they won't let it get too busy,

Mark 11:46

which is good. You know, that's a good thing that they don't let it get too busy. I don't, I don't wanna be in there if it's packed.

Melissa 11:51

No.

Francis 11:51

You know, it's funny, mark and I opened stage left when we were 26 years old. Wow. And the only reason, um, was that we did that is'cause again, like you said, we didn't know, you know, we do a lot of restaurant consulting now,

Mark 12:01

dumbness, you can say Francis, it was sheer and utter ity.

Francis 12:05

And a lot, and a lot of, and a lot of luck. Uhhuh and I think Hamilton has the same thing. How long has Hamilton's been around?

Melissa 12:10

88,

Mark 12:11

right?

Melissa 12:11

1988.

Francis 12:12

Yeah. That's amazing.

Melissa 12:13

Yeah.

Francis 12:13

So now how do you get from, uh, you and your dad opening a restaurant in Lambertville to becoming the food editor of, like we said in the intro, it's Mark and my favorite, absolute favorite.

Mark 12:23

Mm-hmm.

Francis 12:24

Uh, food magazine.

Melissa 12:24

Right. And and that's who you tell all the nice magazine people that come on, right? No,

Mark 12:28

no. Swear we didn't say

Francis 12:30

word

Mark 12:30

about

Melissa 12:30

Ruth. I kind of believe you. We have people that are really passionate about the magazine and it's

Francis 12:36

different. It's different than the others.

Melissa 12:38

So what do you love about it?

Mark 12:40

Well, I, I'll tell you, I'll tell you some of the things that I really like about it. What I like about it is it, depending on your mood, and I actually read ware generally in several different types of, of, of settings and moods. You can leaf through ware and read little half page articles and little snippets and. And garner little facts about, about this or that. Mm-hmm. But at the same time, you have four and five page articles that go really, really in depth. Right. That go deep into the heart of the story. Just, just an example, this month's issue, you have a a little one page article that you wrote about the, the Fulton Street Fish Market, about your experiences there. Right.

Francis 13:15

The others page,

Mark 13:16

Uhhuh and, and then there's a five or six page article about the fish market. And now again, I, I spent. About a year and a half going into the fish market every week. Mm-hmm. And you, you guys really hit it. Mm-hmm. And, and that's what I find when I read your articles about the things that I know about, I say, wow, they really got that right. And when I read the articles about the things that I don't know that much about, I find myself leaving with a lot more knowledge about the subject.

Melissa 13:39

Mm-hmm. Hmm.

Francis 13:39

What do you, well, how do you think that SVO is different from other magazines? How do you try to position it differently?

Melissa 13:45

Uh, well, the main thing is that we, um, we put food in. In context. I mean, it's,

Francis 13:51

mm-hmm.

Melissa 13:51

It's really. It's real food in real places cooked by real people.

Francis 13:58

It's not, well, what do you mean by that?

Melissa 13:59

What I mean is that it's not, uh, typically magazine and all the magazines that are out there have their place and it's great that they're doing what they do. Mm-hmm. You know, so it's not about one being, you know. Having a better thing than the other. It's just that, um, in most magazines that have recipes, there are test kitchens that are developing recipes.

Mark 14:22

Mm-hmm.

Melissa 14:23

So, you know, for instance, someone might have been off on a trip and came back with all these, uh, great. Fabulous. You know, spice concoctions and ideas from anywhere and then bring them back and sort of, um, riff out on them

Mark 14:39

mm-hmm.

Melissa 14:39

In the test kitchen and, and in developing and, and present something that, uh, is tasty and what have you. But what we're doing is we're going to the place and, um. Telling the story of that food or those people coming together for some reason or the significance of that cuisine in. That environment in that place. So you learn the history of the food and we try to pick the food that makes the, it has the most, um, uh, is the most emblematic mm-hmm. Of an area. So you, you,

Mark 15:14

you really do get broad strokes there.

Melissa 15:16

Yeah.

Francis 15:16

I want to to see if you can discuss with us. I remember reading and I couldn't find the article I went looking for, but I remember reading. About something that your family did where you got the whole town together for a large feast, and I thought that was the most interesting thing I'd ever read on this, on any, I've never anything like that. What happened? What did you do?

Melissa 15:34

Well, it was the, uh, esque Centennial, the hundred and 50th, uh, birthday of Lambertville.

Francis 15:41

Mm-hmm.

Melissa 15:41

And, uh, my father was in charge of the celebration with, uh, some other people. And of course, food has to be involved. And, uh, oh, my dad and I are pretty, um, you know, we, he's taught me well. So we sort of think the same things even though we don't see each other that often. Right. So we got together, he said, Melissa, I need your help. You need to come on board and we need to do this big feast and. We had seen, there was a photograph in the, uh, New York Times, a while ago in nine, I guess it was in 1993 of a set in Sienna. Uh, and it was this, I think they do it for the, um, the horse race, the polio uhhuh,

Francis 16:21

they have

Melissa 16:22

down the street. Of course it never rains there. So

Francis 16:25

right

Melissa 16:25

down the street they've got those long tables and they're doing spaghetti and what have you. And that image, I've cut that image out and it hanging up on my board and I always wanted to do something like that. And I said, dad, this is what we should do. Let's just run a table down the middle of the street.

Mark 16:42

I love

Melissa 16:42

it. A big old spaghetti dinner and you know, he. You know, he had sort of come up with the I own id. I'm like, and as he's listening to me, he's like, yeah, Melissa, I already thought of that. I'm like, well, great dad, let's go with it.

Francis 16:53

And so you served was who was invited? Just anyone in the town.

Melissa 16:56

The town, the town. People were invited. Phenomenal. They got first, uh, they got first dibs, Uhhuh, and any, uh, I think it was a thousand people that we

Francis 17:04

compete. Wow.

Melissa 17:05

And you know, the, the amazing thing, I swear it's all about luck, right? Right. But the amazing thing is that there, there truly were storm clouds, just. Brewing above.

Mark 17:15

Oh my God. Aren't there always though, when

Melissa 17:17

you run a restaurant, oh my God,

Mark 17:18

aren't there always storm clouds above?

Melissa 17:20

No. And you know, there's storm clouds within the, the group that was supposed to put the thing together, uhhuh, you know, and then you had the physical, you know, possibility of this rain. And so just as dessert was finished, boom, down came the rain.

Francis 17:33

Oh, that's great. So you served dinner to a thousand people. You closed down the street in Lambertville and served a spaghetti dinner

17:39

to

Mark 17:39

everybody on a giant long table.

Melissa 17:40

Yeah. And we had, a number of the restaurants, um. Uh, participate. So we had stations mm-hmm. Every couple of, uh, of tables where people would do their, you know, coffee was made and what have you.

Francis 17:53

Who paid for all the food?

Melissa 17:54

Uh, I think a lot of it was donated. Okay. We had a lot of donated food and, and some of the food companies.

Francis 18:01

And the article that I read ran vo, is that where I saw it?

Melissa 18:04

That's right. And my sister ended up writing it. My sister is a writer we brought her out to, um, to help and to write the story. And, uh,

Mark 18:12

so tell us when the next one.

Francis 18:13

Yeah. Really? In 150

Melissa 18:15

years. We'll, I'm sorry. Oh yeah, exactly. We'll

Francis 18:16

come down again.

Melissa 18:17

Interestingly enough, someone contacted me from Florida, they had read the article, thought it was such a great idea, and did something similar in Florida.

Francis 18:24

We're gonna talk more about this and more about SVO Magazine. We're talking with the editor of SVO Magazine, Melissa Hamilton. Uh, there'll be more with the restaurant guys in Melissa Hamilton right after the news. We are here today talking with Melissa Hamilton. Melissa is the food editor, of Savor Magazine. Our favorite, uh, periodical in having to do with food. And we were talking before the break about a great festival that, that she and her family put together down for Lambertville, which is the area that they're from, from where they are. Um, and they had invited the whole town, a thousand people. To a dinner at one long table in the middle of the town. That's

Mark 18:53

a really long table, Melissa.

Melissa 18:55

It's a really long table, but I do need you guys to know, for the record, it wasn't just the family.

Francis 19:00

Yeah.

Melissa 19:00

The, the community of s all getting together. That's

Francis 19:03

right.

Melissa 19:04

Yeah. So,

Mark 19:05

well, that's all right. We're gonna

Melissa 19:06

give you the credit anyway. You know. Takes a village.

Francis 19:09

Takes a village to make a lot of pasta.

Melissa 19:11

That's right.

Francis 19:11

That's well, so I'm sorry you guys were instrumental in doing this and your sister wrote about it. Yes. Uh, and that was where I learned about it after the fact. I wish I'd known about it at the time. I'd have made my way down to Lamber Field. But you were saying right before we went to the news that you got a call from another community.

Melissa 19:26

Oh yeah. A community in, in Florida. And they, um. They just thought it was such a great, you know, binding together. Mm-hmm. Or bringing the community together that they, they did one as well, and she sent me, you know, uh, press releases. You know, she sent me the whole thing. It was pretty, it was nice.

Mark 19:43

I can't imagine that somebody wouldn't love the idea,

Melissa 19:45

you know? I mean, communities are sort of disappearing, right? Mm-hmm. So whatever we can do to, to keep them together and, uh, I love you. It's part of the philosophy of ver too, you know, it's like food brings people together. Mm-hmm. And there's always a story there. And so, um. You know, it's, it's neutral ground. Everyone loves food. Everybody can talk about it.

20:04

Two

Francis 20:04

things I

Melissa 20:04

have, everyone can, has their own story. So

Francis 20:06

two things I have to tell you guys. One is, I, I totally agree. And that's right for the communities where, that's right. I live in Jersey City and, um, I think we need to install the metal detectors on the, on the side of the, the fence. But,

Melissa 20:17

you know, you need to establish this eating club.

Francis 20:19

Yeah. Oh yeah.

Melissa 20:21

Yeah.

Francis 20:21

are you involved with things like that?

Melissa 20:22

Uh, I'm not, but I would, if I had more time, I would. And, um, you know, I think it's actually something that's starting to happen with the chefs.

Mark 20:30

Yeah. I have a very, very good friend of mine who, uh, just told me about a thing they do in their community. They all, about 50 of them in their, in their local community, they get together in somebody's house, they have cocktail hour, and then they break off into groups of eight or 10, go to five or six people's houses. Have dinner and then all kinda reconvene for dessert later in the evening, and they do that and you

Francis 20:50

pick out of a hat, whose house are you going to for

Mark 20:51

dinner. Really? Yeah.

Melissa 20:52

Now how do they pull that off? Because how do you make dinner? Have it ready?

Mark 20:57

No, you pick

Melissa 20:57

always cooking when the guests are still there. You know, like,

Mark 21:00

well, I think you have to choose wisely.

Melissa 21:02

I guess

Mark 21:03

so your, your dinner selections.

Melissa 21:04

But I know that there are some chefs who are doing, you know, they'll take a sabbatical, uh, from their places and, you know, go to another country. Like there's a guy doing it in Paris and you know, he opens up this, his dining room.

Mark 21:17

Yeah.

Melissa 21:17

You know, once every Sunday he'll do a dinner and you know, it's only for 12 people. And it sounds

Mark 21:22

like grandma's house. Yeah,

Melissa 21:23

it's really great.

Francis 21:24

Well, it's also going on in Manhattan and it's really flying into the radar because nobody wants to be caught because they, they sort of charge enough that to cover their costs.

Melissa 21:31

Mm-hmm. Exactly.

Francis 21:31

And it's a social thing, but it is a gray area and you don't want the co-op board to find out that you're doing it. You know what I mean? Exactly. You know, you asked Mark, uh, earlier what he liked about Savor Magazine, and I think he hit an point, but I wanna expand on it and ask you about it a little bit. He said, you know, the thing about Soho is you can sort of leaf through it and find some fun information and a little bit of gossip and it's fun. Or you can read the articles through and find them a little more in depth and I'll take it further. Uh, many of your magazines, and I don't know if you do it with all of them, there'll be a theme for the whole magazine.

Melissa 21:58

Mm.

Francis 21:59

So I'm looking at now in front of me the April oh five issue, which had to do with cheese. Oh yeah. Now we love cheese. And we were the first restaurant in New Jersey to really be very serious about a cheese course.

Melissa 22:08

Mm-hmm.

Francis 22:09

And we're all artisanal cheeses from small producers. And, you know, we're very involved in cheese, and cheese is like wine. It's great. And it's about people. Now this, this sub that I have here, we have the whole, there's an article in the Praise of American Cheese. There's an article about Laura Chanel making cheese. There's another article about an artisanal making cheese. There's where to get cheese. There's different kinds of cheese. So the articles in the magazines sort of go together, like the songs of an album. So you can listen to one song or you can read the magazine through as a piece.

Melissa 22:36

Such's. A nice way of putting it About once a year, uh, we'll do a special edition, you know, we'll do a special, uh, issue.

Francis 22:44

Mm-hmm.

Melissa 22:44

And we've done Burgundy before. We've done Venice before. We've done California before. And the cheese thing came up because, you know, we get inundated. There are some things that would get inundated here with it, right? Like chocolate.

Mark 22:59

Mm-hmm.

Melissa 22:59

Olive oil and cheese is one

Mark 23:02

we understand.

Melissa 23:02

You know, and it's a tough job. Right? And, you know, it's so, it's terrible like to say no to all these people. Say, I'm sorry, we already did a chocolate story. Mm-hmm. We already did the vinegar, you know, and all this stuff. But the tea thing, you know, we kept coming up with, uh, different ideas of what to do and suddenly. Oh my God. Why not do a whole issue on cheese? And, you know, American cheese has really blossomed.

Mark 23:25

Yeah. So there's a cheese explosion and, and I don't, you know, in this country. Well,

Melissa 23:29

it's about time.

Mark 23:30

I agree with, as, as a child, I was, I had the good fortune of traveling towards Europe and, and my father was, was born in Europe. So I had those, proclivities early on in life. And it just seemed like finding good cheese in this country was a, was a voyage. Yeah. You know, an adventure. It was very difficult. Yeah. You know, one of the things that Francis hit on just a second ago is your magazine has this great little where to get it section at in the back of it. Mm-hmm. So you, you talk about, for instance, Dolce Che, from Argentina. Yeah. my brother-in-law's from Argentina, so they make homemade dolce dee for the family every now and again. Uh, but, but finding an ingredient like that, finding these, these tiny little things is very, very difficult. And I frankly have used your sources on occasion to find things for my own restaurant.

Melissa 24:15

Oh good. That's great. You know, it's, um, it is one of the, um, tougher. Well, since we're doing sort of authentic cuisine from around the world, I, I know that it can turn people off to the recipe sometimes because they have to mail order. Mm-hmm. And, um, we try to, you know, we be, we, we try to stay conscious of not being too crazy, you know, like to do a simple dish that if you were to make it in that country would cost you, you know, five bucks a person. But if you have to mail, order the trouble. Right. And the fancy oil, you're up to like. 150, but you know, nutty.

Mark 24:52

Mm-hmm.

Melissa 24:52

Right. But, um. You know, the mail order business has exploded. Um, you can get things fast and in excellent shape and uh, you know, in some respects it goes against that Eat locally, the sustainable cuisine movement or whatever. But, you know, I think people's appetites are really, um, broad and their. People are curious and they want flavors from other places, you know?

Francis 25:16

Well, and I also think though, Melissa, I mean, when I read several magazine, because I read about exotic places and I might wanna try a recipe there that requires me to get an ingredient from far away. It, if it teaches me how to cook, if it gives me a frame of reference on cuisine, you know, I'm not gonna do that every night. Right. You know, if I'm the kind of person who wants to cook, I think we should be experimenting and reaching out to ingredients from other places. Yeah. do you know what it is? The issue is, yes, I like to buy from small producers. Mm-hmm. I like to buy locally or I'll buy something specific that that's made in an artisanal way somewhere else. Mm-hmm. I think what we need to fight against is buying stuff that's from nowhere, buying like agribusiness food. That could be from Guatemala. Mm-hmm. Could be from anywhere, because that's when. People are ill-treated in getting it. Mm-hmm. And that's when the food quality really suffers.

Mark 26:00

Well, and the other thing you want to defend against is buying, a, a strawberry from 7,000 miles away when there's a farmer in your backyard growing strawberries.

Melissa 26:08

Exactly. It's, anyway,

Mark 26:10

there's

Melissa 26:10

flavors that you just can't get here. I mean, spice mixes or what have you, that are, you know, you need to mail order and, and,

Mark 26:18

people used to travel really far for spices.

Melissa 26:20

Yeah.

Mark 26:21

They used to, they used

Melissa 26:22

to

Mark 26:22

work really hard to get them to, to each other.

Melissa 26:25

Uh, yeah. But, uh, the other thing is that we know that a lot of our readers, um, you know, sort of travel through our magazine. Mm-hmm. And there's other times when we know that, um, they may not actually make the recipe, but they have learned. Everything, you know, they've learned all about it through that one emblematic recipe, you know? So anyway, you know, people are actually reading the recipes too, to get a sense of not just sort of, oh, I'm not gonna make that, so move along. So,

Mark 26:54

yeah, I, I, like I said, uh, alluded to earlier, your magazine, when I read, as I read through the articles, I'm reading an article that. Of a place I've been and it takes me back there.

Melissa 27:05

Yeah.

Mark 27:06

Or I'm reading an article of someplace I've never been and it takes me there.

Francis 27:09

And, and I also wanna say that what your magazine really recognizes and I think is great, is that cuisine is a part of culture and you can learn about other cultures by learning about the cuisine. Mm-hmm. I wanna talk more about the role of your magazine. You talked earlier about, uh, food bringing people together and your magazine playing a role in that, and restaurants playing a role in that. And I really think it does, and I want to ask you about that in just a moment. you mentioned earlier that, you know, several is about bringing people together over food and, and food's had a, has a different role in the larger culture than it used to and, and a greater role. How, how does Savor sort of, how, you know, with the television, food, network and celebrity chefs, what role does Savor play in the society, do you think?

Melissa 27:44

Hmm.

Francis 27:46

Would you like another question?

Melissa 27:50

I don't know. People like to still hold something in their hand, right. And read it.

Francis 27:53

Yeah. I,

Melissa 27:54

um, hmm.

Mark 27:56

I'm thinking maybe edible pages.

Melissa 27:58

Edible pages. Yeah. Scratch.

Francis 27:59

Well, I mean, how do

Melissa 28:00

I think we need to do that?

Francis 28:01

How does, I mean, does the, does the existence of the television, food network and celebrity chefs, does that, does that change how you cover food? Does that change how you

Melissa 28:08

Nothing

Francis 28:08

choose assignments.

Melissa 28:09

It just helps us stay on track of what we're doing

Francis 28:12

uhhuh

Melissa 28:12

and not like steer off into silly land of

Francis 28:15

mm-hmm.

Melissa 28:15

Celebrity Chefdom. And you know what? People love to be entertained like that.

Francis 28:20

Mm-hmm.

Melissa 28:20

It, it is fun. Uh, personally, it's not what turns me on. Mm-hmm. And, uh, you know, it's fun to catch a glimpse and to gossip about it and to see what silly things people are having to do, like, juggle, you know, fruits and vegetables and. You know, be more macho than the next guy or whatever.

Francis 28:37

Yeah. You know, you know, I never

Melissa 28:38

underst, I mean, I, it's not, it's just pure entertainment. Mm-hmm.

Francis 28:41

It seems

Melissa 28:41

to me. Mm-hmm. I mean, there are people that are doing some really nice cooking shows on the tv, but, um, I personally prefer the sort of more slow pace, like where you are, uh, at the apron strings of the per, you know, you really feel like you're in there with the person. Right?

Mark 28:57

Mm-hmm.

Melissa 28:57

Um, and

Mark 28:59

not a big fan of the 30 minute

Francis 29:00

meal.

Melissa 29:01

Not me, not personally. Yeah.

Francis 29:04

You know,

Melissa 29:04

but, you know,

Francis 29:05

you know, Melissa, I was at, um, I, I worked as a, I volunteered as a, as a sommelier at the Shera Strength Benefit in New York.

Melissa 29:11

Mm-hmm.

Francis 29:11

And they put on a live, um, you know, Cookoff between two chefs. They had three rounds. And these are pretty important chefs.

Melissa 29:17

Yep.

Francis 29:18

And I thought to myself mm-hmm. Who cares,

Mark 29:21

right? Yeah.

Francis 29:21

I mean, what am I learning to see this great chef get a mystery bag of of of mm-hmm. Of stuff and, and have to make a meal in 30 minutes. And I thought. What is that relevant to anything? Like,

Melissa 29:31

I know it's a celebrity, you know, um, ad adoration

Francis 29:36

mm-hmm.

Melissa 29:36

Society that we live in. And there's something else, which is there's a lot of kids going to cooking school now, and I, we have interns at the, uh, magazine. They all are coming out of cooking school, and their heroes are the chefs. Those are their mentors. Those are the people they wanna turn into and cook like, and, and I think it's such a. A sad state of where we are in the food world. I mean, personally, I,

Mark 30:02

cause they wanna be stars. They don't wanna make great food for people and bring people together. Uh,

Melissa 30:05

I think that you need people to, um, to understand food on a sort of a home level, on an intuitive, um, level first. And then you can build them into, you know, wonderful cooks or chefs. But I mean. It's such a, it's so far removed from what people actually do in their regular daily lives. Yeah. So why not learn how to make the most basic things, uh, really simple, really excellent. Uh, and, and then, you know, sort of riff off on, you know, fancy. Um, constructed food or, but I mean, to work in a restaurant, uh, that's doing, you know, fancy plated food, where can people touch it before it lands on your plate and, you know, make, there's excellent things to be learned from there.

Francis 30:57

Mm-hmm.

Melissa 30:58

You know, no question about it, but I do wish that people had the confidence, these young cooking people, they had the confidence to trust what. Home cooks are doing what, you know mm-hmm. To get that foundation is about. Exactly.

Francis 31:13

And you know, with the celebrity chefs that are the really the greatest chefs in the world, you know, let's talk about Elaine Dcos. Right. Let's talk about, um, you know, Danielle Baud. Let's talk about all of the chefs that, that have come out. These chefs did not hone their craft on television. Mm-hmm. They're on television because they hone their craft elsewhere. And when, when, when I see a chef like Elaine dcas or Michael Laco. Go and, you know, do this thing mm-hmm. In 30 minutes. It has nothing to do with what they would do in, in a professional kitchen or a home kitchen.

Mark 31:41

Right. They'd spend, they'd spend a month thinking about a dish that that's gonna go on on

Melissa 31:45

there. I know. So they have a huge staff. They

Francis 31:47

have

Melissa 31:47

a huge staff to do all the mis on plus. Mm-hmm. And I, you know, I think it's kind of duping. You know, that's why I say it's really, it's really entertainment. Mm-hmm. Because you know what, who cares how long it took to come up with the idea and who cares that there were, you know, an army grade of guys and gals, you know,

Mark 32:03

the

Melissa 32:03

show finding it. That doesn't really matter. I mean, if they put on a good show, then mm-hmm. That's great. You know, you're flipping through the channels and like, oh my God, I saw those guys right

Mark 32:12

through this

Melissa 32:12

fabulous fire with blood. Fun,

Mark 32:14

but

Melissa 32:15

Right.

Mark 32:15

Fun. It's for fun. The show I really loved was a show where they, they would give everybody the ingredients and they'd have a little cookoff, and then the audience would vote on who ha who made the best dish without ever tasting it.

Melissa 32:26

Yeah. Isn't that

Mark 32:26

crazy? And I thought that's,

Melissa 32:29

anyway, you know, we made all these huge strides here in this country with, you know, getting better product and bringing the food, um, consciousness, uh, what have you up.

Mark 32:39

Mm-hmm.

Melissa 32:39

But we're. Uh, we are, we are so far from, uh, really being confident and, um,

Mark 32:48

we're getting there though. I, I

Melissa 32:49

see,

Mark 32:49

I see great

Melissa 32:50

improvement. Know. Yeah. We, we are. Um, I think,

Francis 32:53

and I think it's, you know, I think it's one family at a time. It's one person at a time. And you know, we had Marianne Esposito on the show and she talked about the fact that yes, we can be pressed for time, but still make real food. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And I think that when people read Savor Magazine and people read other magazines, uh, even, even Gourmet Magazine magazines, along those lines, what they find is if, and what we need to get people to move toward is not just making the big fancy feast. But also incorporating some of these things in such a way that, you know, a meal doesn't have to take four hours to prepare right? And you can cook on Sunday for the week and have your kids eat real food and your family eat real food during the course of the week and not have to go to fast food.

Melissa 33:33

Look, you can do something as simple as, you know, a good hunk of bread, toast it, fry an egg in olive oil, put some, you know, great paprika, smoky Spanish paprika, put it on top of the uh, toast. Serve it with a nice salad. Dinner is done in 15 minutes.

Francis 33:51

Right. And, and it's, and it's good food. Real

Melissa 33:53

food. Delicious,

Mark 33:54

real food.

Francis 33:55

We need to, we need to talk a little bit more about this in just a moment. You're listening to the restaurant guys.

Mark 34:54

Melissa, will you help us dish just a little bit more?

Melissa 34:57

Sure.

Francis 34:58

you said you doubted us, that we said Sevo was our favorite food magazine. It really is, and we have some that we think are just. Wacky

Mark 35:04

Uhoh did. Did you see this month's Bon Appetit?

Melissa 35:08

Thank God I did not.

Mark 35:10

Oh,

Melissa 35:10

so I don't have to get myself in trouble.

Mark 35:12

Okay. Well, I'm gonna help you get into trouble.

Francis 35:14

This is something that Seva would never do. We

Mark 35:15

want

Francis 35:15

reassurances.

Mark 35:16

You opened the center of this month's Bon Appetit and there is a giant pop out McDonald's ad.

Melissa 35:23

Oh God.

Mark 35:23

And it pops up out of the page, like a children's book.

Melissa 35:27

Wow.

Mark 35:27

And and like a children's book. That's right, that's what I said. Like a children's book.

Francis 35:31

Three dimensional pop-out ed for McDonald's salads as if you're, this is gonna keep you healthy

Mark 35:36

In the middle of Bon Appetit magazine.

Melissa 35:37

Wow. So what do you guys think? I,

Mark 35:40

we think not so much. I

Francis 35:41

think it's despicable.

Melissa 35:42

So are you gonna write a letter to them?

Mark 35:44

No, I'm just gonna make fun of'em on the radio. This is my second time, and I'll bet I do it another two or three times before the month is out.

Francis 35:50

We don't need to write a letter. We have a radio show. We're broadcasting to millions. We're mocking them.

Melissa 35:54

We're just hoping that someone will, uh, get the message to them.

Francis 35:57

Uh, you know what? I think we, we just, we just

Melissa 36:00

have That is outrageous.

Francis 36:01

Isn't that crazy?

Melissa 36:01

But you know, McDonald's is really, um, trying hard.

Mark 36:05

Yeah, they're

Melissa 36:06

trying hard. Good.

Francis 36:07

Come on, just come on.

Mark 36:09

The evil empire is winning. Okay.

Francis 36:11

Trying hard. The

Mark 36:11

empire is striking back.

Francis 36:13

They're trying hard to look like they're doing something.

Melissa 36:15

Exactly.

Francis 36:15

You know, and they're not really doing anything.

Melissa 36:17

Are people gaining weight on those salads?

Francis 36:19

If you look

Melissa 36:20

at the, there must be so much sugar in the dressing, right?

Francis 36:22

If you look the nutrition walnut. On their website. It, it's almost as much as a hamburger to have one a salad. So what's the difference, Melissa, we want to thank you for taking the time. Thank you so much

Mark 36:30

for coming and talking to us today.

Melissa 36:32

Great pleasure you guys. Thanks so much. Thanks

Francis 36:34

a lot. That was Melissa Hamilton, everybody. She is the, the food editor of Savor Magazine, our favorite, uh, food periodical.

Mark 36:40

And we didn't even get a chance to talk about Prune Restaurant, which is a restaurant in Manhattan

Francis 36:43

that her sister

Mark 36:44

owns, that her sister owns. Maybe we'll bring her back and talk a little bit about prune.

Francis 36:48

Um, and, and she's also a local Jersey girl.

Mark 36:51

Mm-hmm.

Francis 36:52

Lives in Stockton, I believe.

Mark 36:53

Yep. She's up at, we

Francis 36:54

we can't give out the address, everybody that, that'd be unethical.

Mark 36:56

That's a heck of a commute to Manhattan every day.

Francis 36:59

It is. I, I have to say, we were talking about goodness, we were talking about bad restaurant reviews earlier, and I have to go back to my favorite bad review ever. I've saved it. It was, it was done by Bill Grimes in, in 1999 of Roy's restaurant.

Mark 37:09

Oh

Francis 37:09

yeah. And he talked about Roy Yamaguchi who opened a, a brief tenure restaurant in Manhattan. And he said, why was it

Mark 37:14

brief Francis?

Francis 37:14

Because he gave in them in the no star review. He said, if clowns had a cuisine, this would be it. That's the worst. Yes. Of all,

Mark 37:23

that's a diss

Francis 37:24

review.

Mark 37:25

That's a dis little red nose is. Big floppy shoes.

Francis 37:27

I hope we haven't brought any of that bad karma on ourself. He spent another hour listening to the restaurant. Guys. I am Francis Shot.

Mark 37:33

And I'm Mark Pascal.

Francis 37:34

We are the restaurant guys, central Jersey 1450. The time is 12 noon.