The Future of Wine Service | June Rodil

Why This Episode Matters

• What actually makes a great wine pairing
• How younger diners are changing wine culture and what that means for restaurants
• Where real wine value exists right now (hint: not where everyone’s looking)
• Why hospitality, not knowledge, is still the key to selling wine
• The evolving role of sommeliers in a less formal, more competitive dining world

The Banter

Mark Pascal and Francis Schott open the show swapping stories about “elevating” takeout by adding better ingredients, dialing in details, and chasing that last 10% that turns good into spectacular.

The Conversation

June Rodil, Master Sommelier and partner in Goodnight Hospitality, shares her path from serving at Olive Garden to shaping some of the most thoughtful wine programs in the country. She breaks down how wine pairing really works not as rules, but as taste memory, experience, and constant adjustment.

The conversation explores the shifting role of wine in dining, from everyday staple to luxury competitor, and the challenge of connecting with a younger, less wine-focused guest. June emphasizes that great service, not intimidation or hierarchy, is what brings people into wine, and that curiosity, accessibility, and value matter more than ever.

They also dig into where smart wine buyers should be looking today, from South Africa to overlooked Old World regions, and why finding one great, under-the-radar bottle can define a program more than a massive list.

Timestamps

• 00:00 – The quest to elevate every bite
• 06:00 – June Rodil’s path: from server to Master Sommelier
• 10:45 – Understanding wine pairing synergy
• 12:00 – How great pairings are actually built (and tested)
• 21:00 – Who is ordering wine in the dining room?
• 26:00 – How to appeal to guests and sell wine today/presenting cork
• 33:00 – Where the real value is in wine right now
• 38:00 – Final takeaway: “Just drink more.”

Bio

June Rodil is a Master Sommelier (2015) and partner at Goodnight Hospitality in Houston, where she oversees award-winning wine programs and hospitality operations. She is widely recognized for her leadership in modern wine service and mentorship within the industry.

Info

• Goodnight Hospitality Group https://www.goodnighthospitality.com/
• Southern Smoke Festival https://southernsmoke.org/festival/ssf-2026/

Our Places

Stage Left Steak
https://www.stageleft.com/

Catherine Lombardi Restaurant
https://www.catherinelombardi.com/

Stage Left Wineshop
https://www.stageleftwineshop.com/

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TheGuys@restaurantguyspodcast.com

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Transcript

Speaker 4 0:11

Hello everybody and welcome. You are listening to the Restaurant Guys. I'm Mark Pascal and I'm here with Francis Shot. Together we own stage left in Kaha Lombardi restaurants in New Brunswick, New Jersey. We're here to bring you the inside track on food, wine, and. The finer things in life.

Speaker 5 0:26

Hello, mark. Hey Francis. It's nice to be here on the inside track with you once time it is. Yeah, it is. I love being on

Speaker 4 0:31

the inside track. It's shorter than the other tracks.

Speaker 5 0:33

Yeah, that's exactly, that's why I always try to get there.

Speaker 4 0:35

Alright, I, I have to tell you something. I have to confess something to you. Oh Lord. So I have a problem.

Speaker 5 0:44

Uh, many. Another one

Speaker 4 0:45

I have a problem for which I might have chosen the only profession in the world that. Makes it an asset.

Speaker 5 0:55

What the hell is that?

Speaker 4 0:57

Uh, I'm gonna tell you a little story. So last night,

Speaker 5 0:59

okay.

Speaker 4 0:59

Jennifer and I decided to get some pizza.

Speaker 5 1:02

Okay?

Speaker 4 1:03

So brought it home, had a slice with pepperoni and sausage.

Speaker 5 1:08

Okay. Sounds like a normal night so far.

Speaker 4 1:10

Okay? Except as I began to eat the pizza, I didn't really like the taste of the sausage on there.

Speaker 5 1:19

Okay, now I know where you're going. I've done this with you. It's great.

Speaker 4 1:23

So, so I plucked all the little pieces of sausage off gave to the dog. Yeah. Dog was very happy.

Speaker 5 1:29

Yeah.

Speaker 4 1:29

Yeah. Except that I went into my fridge, Uhhuh, where I had some sausage. Of course

Speaker 5 1:35

you did

Speaker 4 1:36

that I sliced nice and thinly. Of course you did. And evenly across my piece of Sicilian pizza. Yep. Yep. So I made nine little slices of. Sausage. Yeah. To go on top of my Sicilian pizza. I put it in the air fryer, Uhhuh got it all crispy and hot. I cut it into nine beautiful little square boxes, Uhhuh, and I ate each piece and I was so happy with my little sausage and pepperoni, you know, Sicilian squares. You know that your kids have told me about this, right? They're like, dad,

Speaker 5 2:11

never. He never can have it, just the way it comes.

Speaker 4 2:14

No.

Speaker 5 2:15

You gotta, dad's always gotta do something to it, and I think some of your kids are like that and some of your kids don't care that much about food and just want you to hurry the hell out.

Speaker 4 2:23

I'm elevating

Speaker 5 2:24

the

Speaker 4 2:24

experience a hundred percent now. Okay. The experience I had was had so many more tiles than to eat their crappy. Smelly old sausage,

Speaker 5 2:36

you know? Uh, so I am a big fan of this myself. Mm-hmm. And, and so I have at home and pizza is something I will, now I have a couple of blocks from rats of pizza.

Speaker 4 2:44

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 5 2:45

Well, rats of pizza, you gotta eat there. I'm sorry. It just does not travel well.

Speaker 4 2:48

We totally agree.

Speaker 5 2:48

But I get other pizzas to take. That I bring home. And even good pizza. I mean, I've got our olive oil in my cabinet. Mm-hmm. You know, I,

Speaker 4 2:56

oh, I wish I'd put some olive oil on it.

Speaker 5 2:59

See, we're birds.

Speaker 4 3:00

I'm so mad at myself right now,

Speaker 5 3:02

but I've got some, I've got some of the old balsamic vinegar that you gave me for Christmas. Oh yeah. A couple of drops of that on something. And I'm very much the same way. If, if I get some takeout that's like good, you know, like I had some really expensive, wonderful, uh, soy sauce. Mm-hmm. So when I get sushi. I don't use the little thing of soy sauce that they send, you know, ridiculous. Um, but

Speaker 4 3:25

I know what you're getting me for Christmas this year. Oh,

Speaker 5 3:27

the so sauce.

Speaker 4 3:27

Oh yeah,

Speaker 5 3:28

for sure. Yeah. It's a killer. Yeah, no, so I'm, I'm a big fan of a condiment, you know? Mm-hmm. And. Having those things at your house is the same, and we go to restaurants all the time. Um, it's, it's very much the same in those little finishing details

Speaker 4 3:42

mm-hmm.

Speaker 5 3:43

That restaurants don't do. And you used to make fun of me when we started the re

Speaker 4 3:47

still make fun of you,

Speaker 5 3:48

but 30 years ago, we'd start the, and the chef would bring us a dish and you would always, you'd be like. Olive oil, salt, you know, something that we had that was really great to finish a dish. Mm-hmm. But nine times out of 10, that is what takes it from an eight and a half to a 10.

Speaker 4 4:05

Yeah. Is

Speaker 5 4:06

that so?

Speaker 4 4:07

It is amazing how those little details in the end, those little finishing details that, Hey, make sure it's the right temperature. Hey, make sure that. You didn't use that one crappy ingredient that ruined the whole thing.

Speaker 5 4:19

Yeah,

Speaker 4 4:20

right. All of those little details come together and, and again, my kids have been making fun of me for a long time because they notice they're like. Hey.

Speaker 5 4:29

But it's also what we do to the food in the restaurant. Mm-hmm. You know, like I said, and it, and it's funny, uh, as far as cocktails are concerned, I remember, uh, we used to hang out with Audrey Saunders when she owned the Pegu Club. Mm-hmm. And she was one of the most important voices in cocktails Yep. Ever in the history of the world. And, um, we would go out for cocktails and she carried. A little bottle of Anga store bitters in her purse.

Speaker 4 4:48

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 5 4:49

You know, and I know people who carry a little bit of sea salt in their purse and a little bit of olive oil that gets a little too messy.

Speaker 4 4:54

So, hold on. My aunt used to carry little sweet and Lowe's. Does that

Speaker 5 4:58

count? Yeah. No, that's totally nan. That's totally different now. Um, no, but I encourage that. By the way, the bitters in your purse, um. It really, there were so many times that ought to be like, wait a second, I got this. I can fix it.'cause it's the little thing that you don't see that is the flavor of multiply. It's the olive oil, it's the salt, it's the, it's the bitters. And that can really turn things up to 11.

Speaker 4 5:19

It's the sausage,

Speaker 5 5:20

it's the, I do not recommend you carry sausage around in your pocket. That really sounded weird, didn't I? I'm sorry. So I soon, I recommend you. Let's keep

Speaker 4 5:29

it moving.

Speaker 5 5:30

It carries sausage around, but olive oil is a good thing to take with you, BYOO. And there we have it. We'll be back in just a moment. We're talking with uh, June Al, a master sommelier and, uh, older partner in a bunch of different restaurants. Gonna be a great time. We'll be back in just a moment. You can find out more about us@restaurantguidepodcast.com.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 5:48

June Rodil is one of the most respected sommeliers in America, and one of the most influential voices in how restaurants think about wine today. A master sommelier since 2015, she has helped shape wine programs everywhere, and now across the Good Night Hospitality Group, in which she is a partner. She's a champion for hospitality culture, mentoring talent, great wine service, uh, and service that's as much about people as it, as it is about the bottle, and we're thrilled to have her on the show today. June, welcome to the show.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 6:15

Oh my gosh, thanks for having me.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 6:17

So, um, we're gonna start off with you're a wine professional, right? So you came up on the wine side, but you do a heck of a lot more than that these days. So d- did it all come from wine, or did it come from hospitality into wine, and then back out again?

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 6:32

Uh, two.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 6:34

Okay.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 6:34

I started off as a, a server at Olive Garden, so

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 6:37

Love it.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 6:37

started off as

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 6:38

Red Lobster.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 6:40

Yeah. Darden.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 6:41

Sandwiches Unlimited in Livingston, New Jersey.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 6:44

Yes. Yes. Yeah, and I mean, very common story, right? Like freshman year in college, needed, needed money to pay for rent, easy schedule to kind of maneuver around.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 6:57

Uh.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 6:57

Um, and I'm a horrible cook, so I fell in love with restaurants and I was like,"How do I do this? How do I make this my life?" And because I'm not a great cook, I was like,"Okay, I, I like wine. I can do this." And I just kind of found a knack for it, kind of steeped myself into wine and like with like operations of wine as well,'cause then I realized I just need to make money for my bosses, and then I can have a little bit more,

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 7:22

So- a knack for it and getting your master sommelier. Yeah. Okay, there's a, there's a pretty big gap- Yeah. Yeah, yeah between an- Sure I have a knack for this and I'm gonna study for nine or ten years and get this degree that, you know, 20-something women in the country have.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 7:41

so I'm Asian and I have to get accolades. Like that's what makes my parents happy,

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 7:49

French and

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 7:50

I was...

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 7:50

Italian. I need accolades. That's what makes my parents happy, so. Yeah.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 7:54

Exact- I think I like I, I heard that like where y'all like was gonna be a lawyer. Okay, so same thing. And my parents were like,"What are you doing?"

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 8:01

Yeah.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 8:02

I was like,"Okay, if I show them that I'm good at this, maybe they'll legitimize this and kind of stop

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 8:08

Mm-hmm. Did it work?

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 8:09

me." I-- Any day now.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 8:11

Yeah, uh, you know what I was gonna say? Okay. My parents have passed away, but my dad, we had the number one steakhouse in New Jersey. We had the number one Italian restaurant in New Jersey. We had Wine Spectator awards. We were, you know, first cocktail bar in North America. My dad loved to come to the restaurant, but it really wasn't for about 10 years till he stopped saying,"So, so I guess you're not gonna go to law school then, huh, son?" All right. So I,

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 8:33

I mean, any day now they'll ask. They'll, they'll, they'll be like,"Okay, I guess you're gonna just do this for the rest of your

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 8:38

I, I tell this on this podcast a lot, but it happened again yesterday, so I will mention it again.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 8:46

"It's a

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 9:32

That's hysterical. That was yesterday afternoon. And that's what Mark carries the meatballs in today, is the meat...

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 9:38

case."

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 9:41

so there was a time... W- so when did you get the wine bug? I mean, you're working in a, in a, the Olive Garden, and what made you say,"Hmm, that looks really interesting"?'Cause I grew up, my dad drove a truck for Rheingold and was a fireman, and we didn't have wine in the house. And, but I just, I, I kind of found wine in books when I was in high school. It was part of the expatriate writers that I used to read about. And then I got, I got the job at The Frog and the Peach, where we both worked as bartenders, and, like, I knew within, like, a week, I'm like,"This, I don't know anything about this, but I'm gonna. It's cool." W- w- how did you get the wine bug? What, what triggered you to say,"I wanna know a lot more about this"?

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 10:20

It was, um... I mean, I absolutely denied myself, like, going into the deep end until after grad school. I was literally like,"Okay, any day now, I'm just gonna really decide what I wanna do with my life." And then finally I was like,"Oh my gosh, I'm doing it. Like, what's wrong with me?"

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 10:38

Yeah.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 10:38

just, I'm just trying to figure out like what kind of career

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 10:42

Right

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 10:47

And I was at the Driskill Hotel, which was kind of like one of the first old school hotel. It's haunted. It's really funny. Um, but there's a tasting menu, and with the tasting menu came wine pairings. And I really absolutely-- like, it blew my mind that wine plus food equaled something else And that's when I just was like,"This is, this is phenomenal." Like, I love food, I love wine. I never knew that something could be greater than the sum of its parts

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 11:17

Mm-hmm.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 11:18

in this world, and I absolutely fell in love with it. And I still like, to this day, during wine-- doing the wine pairings and kind of developing that with the kitchen team and the somm team is, is just the best feeling. It's like magic.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 11:32

Well, talk to us about that, about that,'cause that's something that we do- Yeah, we spend a lot of time on and, and I, and I agree with you, it is very rewarding when you hit it perfectly and, one and one doesn't even equal three, it equals 30. Right.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 11:43

Right.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 11:44

Just do this, this, this magic that happens when you match the right one- So what's, what's your process?

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 11:49

Uh, so our process, I mean, in March, we have a tasting menu, and it's very thematic in terms of where we are in the Mediterranean. So it absolutely, it absolutely we do start with, like, what grows together, goes together. So we wanna be--

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 12:04

Yeah.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 12:04

wanna honor the region, the grapes from there. But my, my system is really, it's like taste memory. It's just really understanding the experiences of the past and trying to pick apart why things go together. And it's, it's dynamic. It's, like, ongoing, right? There's always going to be a different reason. It's like finding a partner in life or, like, looking at couples and being like,"That doesn't go, but that goes."

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 12:29

Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's kinda like, it's kinda like creating music, right? You're like, well, there's the... Sometimes a discordance actually winds up being really cool.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 12:36

Exactly.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 12:37

do--'cause what we do, so our chefs have been with us for d- almost two decades, and we've been doing wine dinners. Before COVID, we did a wine dinner a month, 10 months a year, 30 years. 1992. And w-

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 12:48

Man.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 12:50

tasting menus, we just, we, we have a language that we speak, but one of the things that we do is we're like, we think something will work, and sometimes we'll say,"Okay, bring me some cherries, bring me some chocolate, bring me some coffee. Let's get some cheese." Or we'll have a dish and we're like,"Something doesn't work in there. What, what can we take out?" D- I mean, do you do the back and forth with the food like that?

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 13:13

100%, yes. And I, I will say a lot of this has to do with the fact that Felipe, my business partner, who's our executive chef, also loves wine. He's a certified sommelier in his own right, so we have, like, a base knowledge together. Um, and we don't have any issues with going b- I... There's a lot of economics behind, like, let's taste the food and the wine together, especially

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 13:35

Yeah.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 13:35

have a, a high-end wine dinner. But same time, it's one of those things where if you don't do it, you're never gonna get it.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 13:45

It's-- There, I mean, we talk about it all the time, how many, how many near misses- Ugh we would've had, right? Mm. How many times that at three o'clock in the afternoon, all right, okay, everything's together now, let's just try it one last time. Let's just do... And that ingredient, that- Chives change. Chives, you put chives on there.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 14:05

Exactly. Or like, oh, the worst is like acid or some

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 14:08

Thank you. Yeah,

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 14:09

heat, and you're like,"No, why? You didn't tell..." Or, you know, like when you get a tech sheet and you're like,"You did not tell me

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 14:15

it's okay. I had a little bit

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 14:17

on here.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 14:18

on the top, you know?

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 14:19

You

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 14:19

I-

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 14:19

ruined this."

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 14:20

But the, but the, the chive blossoms came in today. They were perfect. They were beautiful. I wanted to put them on top. the purple was magical with it. No, that's messed it up. Y- you know, it-- what's interesting, and if... I know we have a lot of restaurateurs and chefs and, uh, i- industry people, but also people at home, if you wanna do the perfect matching, the advent of the Coravin- Yeah has changed the e-economics of doing that. Years ago, we used to have to open a bottle, and then we'd ha-have to try and sell the wine off that night by the glass, and that was the econo- that's what was what the economics were. And if it's a, and if it's a$400 bottle- Yeah maybe, maybe you're not able to sell$85 glasses every night. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Wow.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 14:56

I agree. Coravin has been so great. I mean, we pour Krug by the glass,

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 15:00

So. Mm-hmm.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 15:01

and it stays fresh.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 15:02

Yep.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 15:02

so happy that we can do

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 15:04

Yeah. a related topic, I tell people all the time, like,"If you wanna obsess about this," when you come to us for a tasting, to us, the three of us, for a tasting menu or a wine dinner or wine pairings, you've expected that we as professionals will have done the, done the work to get a one plus one equals three. I think at home, I don't do that at home when I have people over my house for dinner. I,

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 15:28

Never.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 15:29

if you're gonna have- Mm-hmm five bottles of wine that night, open them up and let people drink at will, or I might go in courses. But I think, I f- I think we should do this at high-end restaurants, but I don't think you should always do this. It's not, doesn't have to be rocket science like this. What, what are your thoughts on pairing f- wine and food at home and stuff like that?

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 15:48

100% in agreement. I think that... I mean, it's also all circumstantial. Like you-- are you, like in your life or in your day? Like, do you even wanna think about that, or do you just know you want... I mean, I, I am a, like a hoe for New Zealand sauvignon blanc, and people are like,"Are you serious?" And I'm like,"Yeah." screw cap open, and you know what it is

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 16:08

Yeah.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 16:09

I don't want a surprise. I want it to be fresh and zingy, and I wanna know exactly what it is, and it can go with anything. And then there are days where I'm like, oh man, like my husband's cooking something super amazing. Let's open something special. Maybe let's open this. Hopefully it'll go together. You know? It, it just really depends on the day, and I think that it-- that's kind of what's happening in restaurants as well, is like you gotta meet people where they are. So at home, you gotta meet yourself where you

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 16:37

My, my at home just I don't wanna think, Mulino Chenin Blanc, the old vine Chenin Blanc from South Africa.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 16:44

Oh, they're

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 16:45

It's

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 16:45

great. I

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 16:46

delicious, and it goes with a ton of different food, and I can just open it up and here you go. just drink this and there's 20 different appetizers out. Go ahead. So I live in an apartment, so my cellar is on the same fourth floor that my apartment is, right? It's right outside the door. And- My cellar's in my cellar. I know. It's, it's- it costs you a lot, costs you a lot less in energy than mine costs. But with d'Corvin, I have a row of bottles, like that first row is- Mm-hmm all work- open working bottles. And I'll go in and I'll gr- and I-- what I love about d'Corvin at home is n- they are not a sponsor, yet. Please call them everyone- and have them be a sponsor. Um, uh, but you know, I have that row of, of, of glasses that I can grab a glass of whatever I like, and they, and I... Makes a huge difference. Can you-- Tell us about, so you grew up, you moved from the Philippines, right?

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 17:32

Yes. Yes. I grew up right outside of Manila.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 17:34

So I grew up with no wine in the house. My dad drove a truck for Rheingold. He was a fireman. Yeah. He grew up right outside of Vanilla. Yeah. It's really weird, but kind of appropriate. Um, so what was it like in your house? Was there wine in your house, and how did your family react when you became a winehead?

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 17:52

Um, there's wine at church,

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 17:54

Ah.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 17:54

it was really bad.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 17:56

Oh, yeah. Us too.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 17:57

it. Um, no, there was like, like classic drink in the-- like at, in the Philippines, nothing. Like beer, and you even drink beer with like... This is the best part of drinking beer in the Philippines, like you have to put like a sack of ice in the beer to keep it cold enough, but that's what makes-- the sack sure the ice is clean. It's, it's rough,

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 18:20

Wow.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 18:21

y'all. Um, so no, it wasn't like a s- a, pair anything. Um, wine really started when I started drinking wine, and my parents really embraced it. Like they've always consumed alcohol. We're Catholic, so

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 18:34

Yep. Yep.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 18:36

alcohol is a thing. Um, and I think it just gave them an opportunity to connect with me because they truly didn't understand what I was trying to do

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 18:45

Yeah.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 18:45

life. And so they've actually embraced... They're-- It's so cute. They're going to Bordeaux in a couple

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 18:50

Oh, that's amazing.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 18:51

That's really, really adorable. Um, so they're, they're working on

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 18:56

Also growing up- Also growing up Catholic, I wanna throw a little tip out there. I was in the youth group and we were in the rectory a lot, and, um, if you steal the wine before it's transubstantiated, it's only a venial sin, whereas if you do it after, it's a mortal sin. So just for those Catholics out there. I, I, you know, I, I... This kinda just came to me. Uh. I never had a good glass of wine till I was 20 years old. Really? Okay? I mean, I, didn't. I mean, I had the, crappy, crappy house wine at the, at the crappy places I worked before I was 20 years old. I had the Opici gallon jug next to my grandfather's feet. I had the Black Tower that my friends and I were like,"We're gonna drink wine'cause we're cool."

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 19:40

Yes.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 19:41

I probably was at the Frog and the Peach, working at the Frog and the Peach was my first really good glass of wine. I, I've never even connected the dots there- Interesting of why I... It's one of the reasons I, I, I just didn't drink a lot of wine. I didn't care about wine. You know, I drank beer or spirits or cocktails or whatever, and then all of a sudden I was like,"Hey, wine's cool." I still live in...

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 20:00

and in this country, we don't-- we're allegedly, you know, not supposed to drink until we're in our 20s or whatever. So it isn't something that's truly accessible. It's got, you know,

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 20:11

Unless it's in your family, yes.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 20:12

Exactly. Exactly. And it's not necessarily in a lot of families,

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 20:17

Mm-hmm.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 20:18

especially in the South.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 20:20

So being in the South, you have a lot of restaurant professionals and somms and, down where you are, and I wanna talk about... I wonder if you can talk about that, but also to tie in, what do you think is happening with wine and dining? Because I think it's going through a change. I think there are lots of things out there like natural wine, which is controversial and, and cloudy, um, and, uh- Doesn't have to be cloudy and, uh, it's moved away from, thank heaven, the race for points, I think, in most arenas. it went, for a long time it went from nobody knew anything to there were a bunch of great young somms out there who started to know a lot of stuff. And now it's not as formal as it was. Uh, it's fewer people are drinking wine. I think it's still healthy. What's happening in the wine world from your perspective?

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 21:11

A lot. yeah, it's, it's weird because some people are-- I think they feel like it's end days, and then some people are very optimistic. I'm definitely on the more optimistic side. Um, I just, I see it for what it is. It's a luxury item, you know? So I think a lot of times we took it for granted, and it's just like,"Oh, it's a necessity. It's a grocery." I wish it were. Like, absolutely, I wish people felt that way, but we're still in a place where it's like a luxury item, and we are competing... Like, wine is competing with not just beverages, but like going out to eat in general, uh, going on vacation, getting an expensive shirt, like liking high fashion, or all of that stuff. So there's a bigger platform at play, and I do see a bigger range of people drinking, but it is something that's competitive on a luxury market and not just necessarily as wine or what you're gonna drink tonight.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 22:07

know, I'm not 100% sure I completely agree with you

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 22:10

Mm-hmm.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 22:10

because I, you know, I have a lot of friends who, crack a bottle of wine, split, share a bottle of wine at, at dinner time five days a week you know, it's not the$150 bottle, it's the$12 bottle. And in, in that way, they've made it part of their everyday life. And, and I still think we have a faction of people who, who are doing that, who are making wine part of their everyday life and, and not making it a luxury item. There certainly are wines that are luxury items, and I think,

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 22:39

Uh-huh.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 22:51

something, and to have a really special evening." But, like I said, I think there's still a faction. It's, it's not a big enough faction, but there's still a faction of people who treat wine as that, that everyday item.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 23:04

I, I'm on your page. Like, I do think that there are people out there. I always worry, like, will there be another generation of people

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 23:11

Yeah.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 23:12

that does it? So I'm kind of looking at this new drinking generation. I love and like, man, like our bread and butter are, is that, is that generation of like people who treat wine like a grocery. Like, of course I'm having a glass of wine. I'm eating. Why wouldn't I be doing that? Like, that's my favorite person. But this new diner that I'm seeing really is like, maybe I'll have wine, or maybe I'll have a cocktail, or not, you know? And, and that's an interesting... I'm still trying to get into their psyche, um, of figuring out, like, what are these choices? Can you have it all? Like, I

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 23:49

You're younger than we are, and you're, you service a really young market, and I really do wanna press you on this because I think you may have better insight than we do, and it's also a different part of the country. Well, I've never heard him say that before I, I, I, uh, I... But how do, how do we get to the new 25-year-old diner? How are they consuming wine? I'm s- I'm seeing, enthusiasm for natural wine, which I think is problematic in a number of ways. And I'm seeing some people writing about, well, rejecting the, the hierarchy of quality and, and in opting instead for cloudy wines that all taste alike in some move toward egalitarianism or something, and I- In some infected kind of way is what he's trying to say It just, it just strikes me that I think in an effort to throw off the hierarchy of the old judgment, they're th- we're throwing away some quality, and I don't

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 24:46

Mm-hmm.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 24:47

that's gonna lead to long-term drinkers of wine. They're just not that pleasant to drink. What, what is happening in that market? How do we hit those people and, and make wine for them and have them love wine?

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 25:01

So don't disagree with you. I think it's really hard, and honestly, this is something that we, like, we talk about this all

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 25:08

Love it. I love the

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 25:39

at

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 25:39

late night

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 25:40

Um,

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 25:40

happy hour so much.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 25:42

love it. Like, we have-- Like, I, I sandwich them. I've got like a one at one of the restaurants, 5:00 to 6:00, and then a 9:00 to 10:00. Um, and it really is kind of like, great. I, I think that, you know, there's this also idea where it's like,"I can't buy a house. Like, why would I spend money on going out?" So seeing that value representation, I think at least establishes the conversation to be like,"Just buy this bottle of wine. It's 40 bucks,"

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 26:11

Yeah. Yeah.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 26:12

Uh, and then it establishes connection with the sommelier, so we can at, at least just be honest. Like, someone literally asked me the other day, like,"Why did you pour me a little bit? Like, what is that actually for?"

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 26:24

Right.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 26:25

and rather than scoffing at it, I was like,"Oh my God, let me tell you why. Like, I tasted it already. I think it's really good, but I also want you to think that it's good. If you don't, like, we can talk it through, so we can get you the right glass or the right bottle," you know?

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 26:40

Yeah. service on the floor is... And by having an experiential thing on the floor and a friendly thing on the floor, I think is, is part of it. For instance, we don't say the word sommelier in the restaurant generally, right? Unless the customer says it first, we don't... We say, if someone's in over... They're a waiter and they're i-into someone who's probably needs a little bit more help, and they'll say,"Oh, well, you know, Burgundy, you know, we're talking about Burgundy, and Julie knows a ton about Burgundy," or,"Francis knows. Let me send him over or her over." We don't say the word sommelier'cause that, you know, turns some people off, and I think that's part of the style of service on the floor. What do you think, Mark? I, I think that people certainly can be intimidated by words, and sommelier might be one of those words. Yeah, yeah. the other question that leads to me, though, is when we talk about the hierarchy of wine, and I think the people getting wine degrees and really knowing a lot about wine in wine service in particular is im- is important. But what happens to the, the, the two major degrees and people getting degrees, master sommeliers and masters of wine in the future? What's the future of that? Are those people... Are, are you all more relevant or less relevant, or do you have to change the roles you're in? What do you think happens? Would you encourage... I would encourage young people who are into it to go and pursue th-those degrees if they're into it. You?

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 27:51

100%. I do because I like, I like structure.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 27:55

Mm-hmm.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 27:55

and wi- and wine is about structure and not structure, right? Like there's, there are people who are making wines completely against the rules, but you kind of wanna know what the rules they're breaking are, right? A-and I think that, you

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 28:09

It's also an industry in

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 28:10

of history, cultural, um, I'm interested in all those things. Like surprise, surprise, I was a liberal arts major, so like wine naturally is something that I'm interested in. But you can have an interest in something and not really understand how to translate it to people,

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 28:25

there's a ton of people talking smack that is wrong. It's just wrong. The amount of wrong information out there.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 28:48

but it's like that's every industry, just like,"No, no, you didn't cite the right thing," or whatever. Like,

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 28:53

But

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 28:53

the same

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 28:54

people in positions of power who, who speak with some authority, and it's good to know the people who have degrees, you know that they're not wrong. It's not misinformation. All right. Speaking of your degree, something happened to me yesterday that has happened to me 500 times in my life, and I, I want you to help me explain it'cause I've...'cause I don't understand it I was at a very fancy Michelin three-star restaurant yesterday. Lucky you. And waiter pulled the cork of-- from our wine and smelled the cork, and then, and then put the cork down and, and continued on his way. In the thousands and thousands and thousands of bottles that I have either witnessed opening or opened myself, I have never seen anyone say a wine is bad after they smelled the cork. What's the purpose of smelling the cork?

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 29:52

So you don't have to smell the cork at all because truly you want to just taste the wine. But sometimes if you smell the cork and there's cork taint on it, which is TCA, um, if it's a natural cork also, I think that's important. If it's like

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 30:07

Mm-hmm.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 30:08

not natural, it-- sometimes it won't take to it. You can smell it right away, and if you smell it right away, it's already flawed, so then you don't even have to pour the wine.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 30:18

But I've never seen anybody smell the cork and then not smell the wine. And

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 30:23

Oh, yeah.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 30:23

smell the wine anyway, why are you-- I get looking at the cork and seeing if it's degraded and seeing it, but you're gonna go smell that wine in a second anyway. So I, I never understood why somebody smells the cork. And again, I was in a Michelin three-star restaurant, a great restaurant that I highly respect- With a great wine program...with a great wine program, and I watched him do that and I thought,"How come? I don't get it."

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 30:46

Yeah. I think it's course of habit, which is really interesting'cause I don't, I don't do that.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 30:50

Mm.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 30:51

'Cause I've al-'cause I've always been

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 30:52

Mm-hmm.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 30:52

taught, like, you just look at it. You look at the cork because it's more about the storage conditions, like, you know, especially for an old bottle. Like, it gives you kind of an understanding of the history of the bottle. But yeah, at the end of the day, you're, you're gonna taste it.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 31:05

We

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 31:06

if you're like,"This cork is kind of weird," you're, you're gonna taste the

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 31:09

don't even always present the cork to the guest anymore- Mm-hmm...'cause it just, it, you know... I remember an old cartoon back when, uh, I was taking a course with Kevin Zraly in the'80s-...an, uh, old guy over here. But I remember there was a cartoon, a little handout he gave, and it was for wine service, and the sommelier presented the cork to the guest, who picked it up and took a bite out of it. And I thought that was-...that was, that's the way to do it, right?

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 31:35

I love that.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 31:36

other-- There was another comic on, as long as we're, we're reminiscing, it was a comic that he had on there where it was one frame was, a guy in a wine store giving a customer a taste, and he was like,"Uh, this is absolute plunk. The nose is ruined, and it's oxidized, and it's corked, and it's terrible." And, um, and then the clerk says,"The Wine Spectator gave it 100 points." He's like,"I'll take 12 cases." All right. So this is part of the disease of being in the business that we're in, okay? For all of you people who have ever smelled sour milk and felt the need to taste it When we smell a corked wine, sommeliers feel the need to taste it anyway. Yes.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 32:17

Every time.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 32:18

and every time, and I-- and it's a little bit like, like the glutton who, who's like,"I, well, uh, this is, this is clearly spoiled. Let me taste it and, and double-check that it's, that it's disgusting. Oh yeah, that was disgusting."

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 32:30

Oh, we share it too. It's not just you. You're like,"Everybody taste this really bad wine.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 32:36

Well-

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 32:36

is horrendous."

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 32:37

funny, when we get a corked bottle, I'm sure you guys do the same thing,'cause there aren't, corked bottles aren't that common anymore. We get a corked bottle, I always bring it around to the staff to say,"This is cork. This is cork. This is cork."

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 32:48

Absolutely.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 32:49

okay. So, I wanna know from you, uh, different market, different demographic, um, we have similar backgrounds and tastes. What are the wines... Is there a wine region or a wine type that people should look for that's where people are going now? What's most exciting now? Where should people be looking for wine? Where's values? Yeah. Where you're gonna see-

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 33:10

values. That's

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 33:12

sorry. Value sometimes means a$400 bottle that should be$800. Right. So, so when I say values, I mean where, where can you get the most bang for your buck? So value, but also I wanna know, like, is there unexpected? Like, are, should we be paying attention to Swiss wines? I mean, you know, what, what- Mm-hmm what don't we know?

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 33:27

I, I still think value is in-- I always-- This is so sad that I'm gonna say this. Um, it's in countries that the dollar is stronger.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 33:36

Mm-hmm.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 33:37

Like, you just have to kind of look at like the sheer economics of it, because there's always gonna be like great artistry and, and places with strife and, and things like that. So I love, I love South African wines. Like you were

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 33:48

that's just, you're really big into the Venezuelan wines right now. That's your-

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 33:53

Maybe one day.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 33:55

No. So I'm- I'm sorry. Go ahead. Please continue. I'm sorry I interrupted.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 33:58

like South African wines I've always had like this huge passion for. It's gritty there, like the people are amazing, the food is sick, and the wines are spectacular. Like you were just talking about Mooloo, they're amazing.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 34:10

yep.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 34:10

Um, and, and all of the like people in the Swartland and that area I absolutely love. And then literally it's like real estate, so like looking at the outlier areas. So if you're looking for Burgundy, Everybody's kind of-- no more land to purchase.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 34:26

Right.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 34:26

has, someone has to die or be a bazillionaire.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 34:29

Right.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 34:31

so now you're seeing really great producers in like Monteli. Um, Saint-Romain is, you know, it's expensive now, but like there's a lot more great producers that are really cultivating the land in a really great way. Um, I, I would say still in the Côte d'Or, in that kind of sweet spot, just kind of expanding east-west rather than north-south

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 34:50

you would stick to France?

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 34:52

That's my love. I mean, I'm completely like, I'm a Francophile. Like I, I'm like, I love Burgundy. It's so dumb, and I mean, sh-she's never loved me back,

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 35:03

Yeah. She's an expensive

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 35:05

really

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 35:05

date.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 35:05

to court her.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 35:06

She's an expensive date. I, I have to... I, I looked at, um, I look at a region like, uh, Serbia and Macedonia,

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 35:13

Yeah.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 35:14

think there are amazing wines coming out there, but I can't say,"Oh, what's the next thing?" I don't think anybody else is watching. Um, you know, I think you should, the people should. Is there demand that you're seeing from what's, what's trendy, what's the future, where things are actually going rather than where they should go?

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 35:29

So there is a little bit-- We, so we just did a region, um, for March for the Levant, and we actually did, we procured some Turkish wines. Um, we talked to a Syrian winery, a Palestinian winery. We like brought all these wines in to the States, which was really interesting, and the wines were great. And I would say it's more about showcasing them so people are like,"These are delicious," and say like,"Hey, we can get these." And'cause the, the price is right, I will tell you that.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 35:56

Yep. Yep.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 35:57

was really great value in terms of like juice to quality ratio. Um, but the

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 36:04

Yeah.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 36:05

have to have someone who really cares about the region because people don't normally think that wine comes from there. It's not like,"Oh, I'm gonna get this Algerian wine," or it- It happens, but it's not something that's, you know, really imported into the US right now. So I think it, it really has to come from someone who cares.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 36:24

I think those make great opportunities, though. If you're a somm out there or you're a wine shop, you don't have to get all of the wines from Hungary in, you don't have to get all the Serbian wines in, but go to those tastings, and if you find something that's awesome... We had this Sub Rosa from, oh my God, who's the producer? Prokopac and Cabernet. It was Prokopac Cab called Sub Rosa, and it was from Vino Budimir- Ah, Budimir in Serbia. That's right. And we ran with that for, like, two years, and people loved it, and we had it by the glass. And some of the other Serbian restaurants in New York and some of those Serbian club owners were buying some of it, but- But we were able to get 12-year-old 2007 Prokopac. And-

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 37:02

nice.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 37:03

and we made it a signature. But the thing is, I don't think you can have a whole list like that, but if you're a somm out there, get something- Mm-hmm that you can run by the glass and get behind and get your staff behind, and your, your by-the-glass list doesn't need to have to change every wine every quarter, and you can make it kind of your signature thing. We did it for two, three years. Yeah. Are, are you ready? Yeah. Francis is always looking for the Canary Islands in the coal mine. Oh.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 37:27

That's good. I like it. I like it.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 37:30

I like that. That's very nice. Is that all? That was it. That's all I got. Is that all you got? That's all you got? So for those of you in podcast land, Mark was tapping my knee like,"My turn, my turn. I'm next.""I'm next. I can talk." So then-

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 37:43

I got, I got one. I got

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 37:44

All

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 37:44

one.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 37:45

right, June, do you have any parting words for us? This has been a ton of fun. You're great. We can't wait to come see you, uh- Yeah, we're gonna see you down in- in Texas in Houston, uh, at, uh- Southern Smoke Southern Smoke. We'll be there.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 37:54

hell

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 37:55

Which, you have a very important job down there, as well as your, your restaurants are thriving and killing it. We, uh, uh, we spent some time in the lounge at March last time we were down there and had a, had a wonderful time, and we're definitely gonna go to some of those other places that are all in that same building there and- Yeah and do some visiting and eating and drinking, I promise.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 38:16

Amazing. No, I mean, just that everybody should drink more wine or just drink more.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 38:21

I,

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 38:22

delicious.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 38:23

I like that. We're gonna get a T-shirt made up of that. Drink more. It's tremendous. That's it.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 38:26

just drink more.

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 38:28

Guys say drink more. Drink more. Anyway, June, it's been terrific. Thanks for joining us, uh, and we'll see you next time.

june--she-her-_1_04-22-2026_110159 38:33

Thank

the-restaurant-guys_1_04-22-2026_120159 38:34

back in just a moment. You're listening to The Restaurant Guys. You can find out more at restaurantguyspodcast.com.

the-restaurant-guys_2_04-22-2026_124315 38:59

Hey there, mark. She was terrific. Yes, we could, we we could have gone on for hours. Yeah. And we probably will. I'm sure we're kind there. I'm sure we're gonna see her in Houston and spend a couple hours. A hundred percent. But I want to talk about, you know, the little thing that I mentioned about picking a wine and running with it. Mm-hmm. Especially if you're, look, if you, if you like something at home, get. Also if you're home and you find a wine that you really like, get a case of it. Mm-hmm. Don't buy 12 individual bottles. It's funny, you've saying this something cases for years and almost no one listens to it. Yeah, I know. It's crazy. Everybody. So we do these wine dinners and forever people buy two bottles of this. Two bottles of that. Two bottles of this. Two bottles of that. Two bottles of that. Paul Hobbs wines. They buy cases. Yes, that's true. They buy six bottles and they buy cases. That's true. And it's some of the wine dinners, they will buy cases and it's so much more rewarding because you drink that ca. I'd rather have you buy. Six bottles, each of two different wines, or 12 bottles of one wine. Then all then the, the reason you come to the wine dinner is to taste through them all right? And pick your favorite. And, and it, it's not even just about the favorite. It's about you participate in the aging of the wine over the period of years that you have that case. I, I still like, you know, we talked about the, the Shein Blanc, the old vines from Mulino. Earlier I talked about it. I just love having that wine. Right. It's dependable. I know what it's gonna be. Right. It's, it's slightly different each time. Right? Right. It's, it's aging. Uh, but I know the wine, I know what it's gonna go with. I, I'm ready to go. I always have it. It's my house wine. so I like that for the house wine. But as far as the aging wine is concerned, let's, let's two separate scenarios. So you want to, you're going over someone's house and having a nice dinner. You wanna bring him something special that hopefully you drink that night. And you can turn up and say, Hey, here's a bottle of Paul Hobbs, George Henry, Kathy Corson, whoever. Mm-hmm. Um, Cabernet Sauvignon and Pinot Noirs, infidel. We bought this at a wine dinner when Kathy was here. Mm-hmm. Like, or Francis or Mark recommended this and we, we got a case of it like two years ago, three years ago. And you know what? Had a bottle last week. It's doing really great. I wanted to bring it tonight as opposed to. Stop by the Walgreens, and this was stacked next to the fleet enemas. It's on sale. You, you know, the gift thing that I very much enjoy mm-hmm. That, that I love when people do it when they're here. And I've done it for a bunch of people over the years. Yep. Yep. A winemaker comes here mm-hmm. And they autograph a bottle for you. Yep. And it's to your friends and it's, you know, happy 40th birthday. Mm-hmm. Celebrate. Mm-hmm. congratulations on your wedding. Yeah. Whatever signed by the winemaker. I, I think that is such a thoughtful. Specific gift. I was someplace a month and a half before your wedding. I knew I was coming to your wedding. I love this wine. I thought you guys would love this wine. The wine maker signed it for you. it's for you for your wedding day. Yeah. There's something just super duper special about that and, and individual. So that's a big fan on one side. And if for you wine buyers out there, and you know, if you have a bar or whatever, if you go to the off tasting, don't just go to the taste, the wines that are from an unfamiliar place. Mm-hmm. Spend at least some of your time doing that. And if you find something that's great and you think it's a great price, don't worry that nobody knows about it. even if it's just one thing on your list, and it's okay if you have to explain it because you're gonna tell your staff about this one thing and maybe buy several cases of it and stick with it and make it your signature and. Make sure everybody knows about it, if it's really good. And I think that can differentiate you from everybody else. We, we made a lot of friends with that subrosa. We made a lot of friends with that wine subrosa, Vander Camp Sparkling Wine. Mm-hmm. Um, the, that's, that's a long time ago. You reached way back it, way back. We, we finished out the Vander Camp Sparkling Wine, Cabernet from California, from, uh, Renaissance Vineyards Take it from granted. Yeah. 20-year-old bottle of Cabernet. Mm-hmm. We sold it for like 3, 4, 5 years. Yep. And people came to us for it and we are the ones who had it. And I think that's what makes things special. It's very personal. The restaurant guys is very personal. We hope that you've enjoyed hanging out with us and June and we will see you next time. I'm Francis Shot. And I'm Mark Pascal. We got the restaurant guys. You can always find out more about us@restaurantguyspodcast.com.