Julie & Julia Before the Movie | Julie Powell

This is a Vintage episode from 2006.

Julie Powell joins Mark Pascal and Francis Schott to talk about Julie & Julia, her year cooking 524 Julia Child recipes, and how a personal blog became a book before food blogging was a career path.

Why This Episode Matters

• Julie Powell captured an early moment in food blogging, before the form became mainstream.
• The interview took place before Julie & Julia became a movie, so the conversation is rooted in the original book and blog.
• Julie explains why Julia Child’s ambition, late start, and seriousness about cooking spoke to her.
• Mark and Francis challenge Julie on her controversial New York Times op-ed about greenmarkets, organic food, and privilege.
• The episode connects cooking to reinvention, marriage, class, and the messy business of trying to change your life.

The Conversation

Julie Powell explains that the project began as a response to turning 30 and feeling stuck in her job and life. Mark and Francis connect immediately with the vivid, slightly dangerous pleasure in her food writing, especially her description of beef marrow as rich, intense, and “like eating life.” Julia Child appealed to Julie not because the recipes were easy, but because they were hard and worth doing. She also found inspiration in Julia’s own late start, since Child did not become “Julia Child” until well into adulthood.

The blog began in 2002 at her husband’s suggestion, when Julie says she barely knew what a blog was. What started as a personal challenge became a memoir about cooking, ambition, marriage, and reinvention. Julie is clear that Julie & Julia is not a cookbook; food is the route into a larger story about choosing something difficult and committing to it.

The conversation also digs into Julie’s New York Times op-ed on greenmarkets and organic food. Mark and Francis disagree with parts of her argument, but Julie explains that her real concern was judgment toward people who lack the money, time, or access to buy ideal ingredients. The debate lands on a shared point: good food should not be a privilege reserved for people who can afford it.

Timestamps

0:50 - Introducing Julie Powell and Julie & Julia
2:30 - Why she cooked 524 Julia Child recipes in one year
5:00 - Cooking after work, late dinners, and expensive ingredients
6:45 - From personal blog to published book
9:30 - he greenmarket debate and food privilege
16:00 - Marriage, chaos, and life after the project
18:00 - Mark and Francis reflect on Julie, Julia Child, and the op-ed debate 

Bio

Julie Powell was the author of Julie & Julia: My Year of Cooking Dangerously, based on her blog about cooking every recipe in Julia Child’s Mastering the Art of French Cooking. The book was later adapted into the film Julie & Julia.

Info

Book: Julie & Julia: My Year of Cooking Dangerously
Original inspiration: Julia Child’s Mastering the Art of French Cooking

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Transcript

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Mark (2) 0:56

Our guest today is Julie Powell. Julie Powell has written a wonderful book, uh, called Julie Julia, where she has cooked, uh, 524 recipes of Julia Child in 365 days in one tiny apartment kitchen. It is subtitled How One Girl Risked Her Marriage, Her Job, and Her Sanity to Master the Art of Living. Sounds like the restaurant business. Hey, Julie. How are you? How are you doing, Julie? How are you? Very good. We're great, thanks. Wonderful. Um, I have to say, I love reading your stuff, and- Oh, good. I do. It's really great, and I'm really passionate about food. And sometimes I disagree with you, and sometimes I agree with you. But I have to- Well, that's, that's good. I like, I like that. I... Disagreement is, is, is, is key, I think. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's all about living and, and it, and it really is about life. And, and your zest for life is unbelievable. We enjoy the passion of it, for sure. Well, thank you. I wanna read to you, um, where if you weren't married, I would've fallen in love with you. Wonderful. Where on page 76 of your book, I'm gonna read briefly. It says If I had thought of beef marrow might be a hell of a lot of work for not much difference, I needn't have worried. The taste of marrow is rich, meaty, intense in a nearly too much way. In my increasingly depraved state, I could think of nothing at first but that it tasted like really good sex. I love you. Oh, gosh. Wow. And then, and then- He's not kidding. He really does. Yeah. And then we go to, and then we go half a page later, and we come back and we conclude with, "And this steak with beef marrow sauce, it didn't seem all that different. It's like eating life. It's almost like eating my own life, you know?" Yes, I know, Julia. I know. Can I, can I, can I tell you something, Julie? I'm scared of you and Frances now, okay? Um- We, we, we, we are, we are a, a special tribe. So, so tell us about this book and, and, and w- why in the world you decided to take on this mammoth project. Now, in 365 days, you cooked 524 recipes? That's correct. That's, that's, that's right, 524 recipes. That's, that's my very scientific count of how many recipes there are in, uh, Julia Child's, uh, first book, um, Mastering the Art of French Cooking. And, um, and I did it because I was, um, uh, having a panic attack, basically. Um, I was getting ready to turn 30, and I just... at that, which felt like the end of the world at the time to me. Uh-huh. And, uh- Was it the end of the world? W- was, was it the end of the world? Yeah. No, actually, thank... I'm so glad that I- that I went ahead and turned that corner. It's been... Life has been treating me much better since, since I turned that corner. Um- So you decide to take a year and cook 524 recipes from Julia. And by the way, Julia Child's recipes are not like the 5-minute gourmet. Mm-hmm. These are in, these are labor-intensive recipes. No, no, no, not at all. Not at all. Um, well, you know, which is something I, I, what I, I love about, uh, Julia Child's book, especially when you compare it to a lot of, of, uh, cooking that, that goes on now, even- Mm-hmm I mean, I, I think 30-minute meals are important. I think it's better to do something, you know, with frozen french fries and, you know, whatever. Do something at home, uh, rather than- Some non-McDonald's dinner. Right, exactly. That, and that's all great, but I, what I love about Julia's book is that, you know, she never, she never said it was gonna be easy. You know, it's- Mm-hmm, right it's not. It's not that it's easy. It's that it's, it's an endeavor worth undertaking. And, and that, and that I, as a person of middle-aged character could, could do it. And I love... I came at it from a much more optimistic approach than, um, you know, being coddled and, you know, it... Even you, Bob, if you are, can make a meal. S- so is that- I mean, that was the point is that why you became so infatuated with Julia Child? Uh, yeah, it's a part of it. I mean, I, I think that, um, uh, Julia's- you throughout her life and she's a Julia spirit, uh, really spoke, spoke through the book. Um, and, and, and also her, you know her, what I, the more I learned about her early life, sort of her life before she was the Julia we all know- Mm-hmm uh, I found really inspiring because of course, you know, she didn't take her fir- first cooking class until she was 37. Right, in her 30s. Uh, and, and, but, you know, it really took her a long time to figure out what it was that she was meant to do. And as a 29-year-old secretary who felt, you know, really stuck and without options, uh, that, that aspect of her life that someone so immensely herself and that we can't imagine any other way, really could actually struggle with, with what it was she wanted to do to that- She was struggling while she was... She wasn't struggling as a secretary, she was struggling being loaded. Which, which made it a lot easier. Now, you worked your day job when, when you were cooking these food, all this food? Yes, that's, that's right. Yeah, I, uh, I was workin', workin' at a government agency downtown, which was a pretty, you know, it was... I was working till 6:30 or 7:00 every night. And- And what time did you serve dinner? And, uh, yeah, stoppin' on the way home. Mm-hmm. Taking the subway home, slippin', you know. And what time does dinner come out of the oven? Uh, we usually managed to get it in before, before midnight, so it was- it was close. A- and you weren't stinky, stinky rich, though? Oh, no. You didn't, how many re- you know, immensely wealthy secretaries do you know? Um, it was, it was, yeah, we were, we were struggling. And it was really a little, the, there wasn't... I, I somehow thought when I started this project it was gonna be cheap, um because I, I figured, you know, Julia doesn't care for all the, you know- Fancy ingredients. Julia cooks with foie gras and lobster, okay? Y- right. Well, right, you know, and when you get to the, you know, veal roast chapter- Mm-hmm there's no such thing as a inexpensive veal roast. So, um, it was, it was a struggle. But luckily I, I was doing a blog about all of this- Mm-hmm which was kind of the start of the project. Just, just, just the butter alone would be about 100 bucks a week. All right. 60, 60 pounds of butter, it adds up. So now how does this project, this, this, this early midlife crisis project of yours turn into a blog and then a book? And the book is doing very, very well, and it's a, and it's a great read. So how does, how does you get from, "I'm gonna cook for a year," and to, uh, it didn't start as a book project, right? No, no, it, it, it didn't, it was definitely a, a, a entirely personal project. I did start with the blog from the beginning. That was my husband's idea. Uh, I didn't know what a blog was at the time. Um- And, and when did you start doing that? Uh, it was August of 2002. Mm-hmm. So, um, the, the blogging thing was a fairly new concept and, uh, but my husband knew about it, and he- Thought that that would be an essential aspect And so how does that, and so how does that evolve itself in- into the book? And the book, by the way, people have, have said it has a certain Sex and the City aesthetic to it, which is- Yeah. Well, you know, I, I guess. I mean, the people do make that, that- Okay, let me help you with something. Agree with that, it'll sell about a million books. Okay? Okay. Just say, "Yes, absolutely." Just- That's what we'll say. Yes, yes, Sex and the City. Yes, yes, absolutely. Bring me a cosmopolitan. Oh, god. Oh, I hate cosmopolitans. Man. Give me a, give me a, give me a- Now, now, um, so w- the... Tell people about the book itself because it's not a cookbook. It's sort of a- Not at all chatty recounting of your year-long adventure cooking Julia Child's recipes. Right. Right. No, it, it, it's a memoir, really, and it, and it, to me, people-- I think people, if people pick up the book expecting it to be, uh, a cookbook, certainly, for, they're gonna be disappointed. Or a, even a book about Mastering American Cooking or a book about, uh, Julia Child or just a book about food, they're gonna be disappointed. Mm. Because it's really about, to me, the food in the book is, is, it's, there's a lot of it in there, but it's a metaphor. I mean, the food, cooking was the route I took to sort of, you know, this, this, this crazy endeavor to reinvent myself. Sure, I understand. Um, and it- Express yourself it could've been something else. Yeah, it could've been anything, but- Mm to me, that's what the book is about. It's about, um, you know, I think that my experience is a fairly universal one, that people come to this point where they, they don't like their options and, and you have to sort of break out and make a choice that may not make any sense, uh, from any rational standpoint. But that, you know, makes intuitive sense to you, and just commit and do it, do it. And, um, so to me that, the, the book is really about that. And, and it's about, you know, my, my family, my friends, my husband, and- Can I say that the book doesn't, uh, conceptually, the book doesn't sound like it would interest me at all- Mm-hmm except that I'm sort of a foodie, and so I picked it up. Right. And having read through the text and the prose- Mm-hmm it's a wonderful book. It's called Julie Julia, and we're talking with the author, Julie Powell. And the subtitle of the book is, How One Girl Risked Her Marriage, Her Job, and Her Sanity to Master the Art of Living, 365 Days, 524 Recipes in One Tiny Apartment Kitchen. And we'll be talking more with Julie Powell, the author of this book, in just a moment after the break. Hey, Julie, I love your book, and I've read a bunch of things that you've written about food, and I think it's really interesting, and you write about food and life, which I think is great. And you wrote an article, you wrote an op-ed piece in The New York Times, which was fairly controversial. You knew we were gonna talk about this, right? No, actually, you know, people haven't been bringing that up, which I've been sort of grateful for. I wanna ask you about it. Yeah, Julie, I just have to say one thing. Sure. We hated it. Right. Fair enough. Actually, I absolutely, I, I, uh, I understand. I, I did feel like, um- Let, let me, let me, let- people were very, very angry about it, and, and I, which I understand, and, and, and, um, and I probably... You know, part of the reason is, of course, is The New York Times' op-ed section has decided that they want, you know, to get me lynched. Um, you know, they- They, they approach me like, "Write this article on, you know... Talk about how terrible green markets are." And I, and, which I don't actually, I... It wasn't really my point. Can I just, can I just, can I just read a quote- Let's- so pe- kind of bring people into the discussion? We, we need to catch the audience up. Okay. Uh, well, you talk about green markets, and this is in July of 2005. You wrote, "And green, those green markets," I'll paraphrase a little, "often leave me longing for the antiseptic but non-judgmental aisles of the low-end supermarket, like Key Food or Western Beef." I'll skip a little. Um, it talks about, "I'll remain a bit suspicious of the cult of garden freshness. The key principle of the movement is to treat fine ingredients with respect, a worthy goal. Surely, as admirable as, as these efforts are, there remains buried in the philosophy two things that just get my hackles up: economic elitism. Of course, food has always been about class, and what makes the snobbery of the organic movement more insidious is that it equates privilege not only with good taste but with good ethics. Eat wild Brazil nuts and save the rainforest. Buy more expensive organic food for your children and fight the national epidemic of childhood obesity. Support a local farmer and give economic power to responsible stewards of sustainable agriculture. There's nothing wrong with any of these choices," thank you, Julie. "Uh, but they do require time and money." And I was just curious, 'cause I've read your other stuff, were you drunk when you wrote that? Um, I, I, I, I'm, I, I, I do all of those things. I just, uh- I know. We made you stutter, Julie. Yeah, you, you did. So- And I hadn't... I might have been drunk. I can't remember. It's entirely possible, and I thought good that at least somebody... I mean, I've had better. Yeah, no, no, I, it, it, it... But I was, I was, I, I, I get upset because not everyone gets to live where I live- Uh-huh or where y'all live or where... or in California, for God's sake. Mm. Just everywhere. Um, you know, some... I, and I have lived in places where- You know, try, trying to... You'll make yourself crazy, um, and, and, you know, living on a secretarial salary in, you know, rural northeastern New Mexico, um- Mm-hmm you, what, what can you do? What, you know, it, it, it's just, I think, I feel, to me, and for something that I should have said better than I did, uh, honestly is that everyone who can, you know, shop monthly- Mm-hmm and, uh, it's, do the things that we all know is the right thing to do should. Um, but, but just because that, because ultimately, you know, the more we do it, the more it'll become available to people who can't do it right now. Um- Yes. And, and I, and I think that's really the point that, that didn't get covered in this, is that- Right it, that we, the people who can do this need to do this. Yes. And what will eventually happen is those things will become available to everybody else. Right. But in some- No, I, I agree with that. I, I just, I just worry about, you know, these people who have to, you know, just keep on hearing that they're feeding their, you know, they're poisoning their children because, you know, they have to buy the stuff they can buy. Well, here, here's some bad news, Julie. We think that they're poisoning their children- by buying that, the, the bad stuff. Well, you know- I know they are, but what are you gonna do if you're living on, you know, on your, on your rent, your tiny check to tiny check, and you're trying to feed your children? That's, I mean, yes, I, I wish- Mm-hmm you didn't have to feed your children milk filled with hormones. Yeah, but, but I think that, that this whole- Yeah this, this whole movement is about, you know, creating places like Trader Joe's, where you have- Of course you have an, a really good store with foster sustainable agriculture- Yeah and is a discount store at the same time, where people can shop- Right and- Absolutely and buy affordable milk and do those kinds of things- Absolutely. No, you're right and supporting those, those farmers and those roadside stands, and- Yeah, but that's still- and getting fresh food but that's still always gonna be more expensive, and the uncomfortable paradigm, I think, Julie, that- But, but, but I guess what I'm, what I'm saying here is it doesn't have to be. Trader Joe's isn't more expensive. Well, I think the uncomfortable paradigm that, that you really do point out in this article, and yet there were a couple of letters to the editor, you know, arguing against your, your op-ed piece- Of course, right which is it, it's, it's good to stir up the controversy. Absolutely. And I think the un- the uncomfortable paradigm that, that you pointed out is that, you know, to get a Giannone Farms chicken- Right which is organically raised and, you know, lives a comfortable life until the time of its slaughter and has no hormones, well, that's going to be more expensive than a- Of course than a, a, a factory farmed chicken. Mm-hmm. And, you know, you have this uncomfortable paradigm where the only way that these family farmers who are trying to stay on the farm can do so is to raise super high quality stuff- Mm-hmm which is more expensive, which, you know, where I live in Jersey City, I mean, you walk down the street, and you're not gonna be able to find an organic apple in my neighborhood. You can find nine fast food stores, but you can't- Right find an organic apple. Right. And- Right and I think, though, that one, one of the things that we wanna do, I, you and we together, is to continue to raise awareness about this because- Frankly, the government should be getting involved- Yes, right. Absolutely to, to, to, to agitate for political activism, to make sure that people of all economic characters have access- Mm-hmm. Exactly uh, uh, have access to, to good food and wholesome food. Exactly. And, and Julie, I, I have to say, I think a lot of the people that are beating you up over this haven't read a lot of your other stuff because, uh- Right because, I think that, you counterpoint some of the things that are in this article, uh- Mm-hmm i- it with your other writing. So what is the one- Yeah, it's a definite contrarian... I mean, a- and like I said, this is partly New York Time's, you know, efforts to get me assassinated. But, but I think it's a two-pronged battle, I think Are you saying they pared down your piece a little bit? You know, you have to approach it from, from, you know, different perspectives at once. I mean, you have, you have the people like us who can, who can just spend all, all this money on, on this, this good- High-end food and- food thing. And then but you have... And I agree. I think that, you know, getting involved, um, politically and, and getting the government involved is important. Um, and- Don't forget that these people, you know, that, that it is a privilege that we are able to- A- to eat this way. Absolutely, and we need to fight to make sure that more people can be able to. Absolutely. Our guest is Julie Powell. She's the author of Julie and Julia: 365 Days and 524 Recipes that she cooked from Julia Child's cookbook, and we'll be talking more with her in just a moment. Okay, so the book is great, and we're gonna put a link up on our website to this book, uh, Julie- Right so people can buy all sorts of it- Right so you can keep buying high-end ingredients like we do. And, and we're gonna stop making fun of your article in The New York Times. Oh, no, no. Go, go right ahead. As long as they spell your name right, Julie, it sells more books. Now, um, what is one thing that you came away with after spending a year working your fingers to the bone, cooking in your tiny apartment kitchen, um, and how did your marriage survive? you know, the, the trial by fire, uh, trials by fire, uh, can really help out with the whole marriage thing. I mean, I think we'd gotten... Yeah, but Julie, you were setting the fires. Yes, that's true. It was a fire of my own devising, but it was, um... You know, we, it, it, there was lots of, you know, screaming and yelling and hysteria and crying jags and all that, and, uh- Once again, I'm gonna say it sounds like a restaurant. It sounds like a marriage and a restaurant. Well, exactly. Um, uh, typical of both. And I, I think that it actually really helped. I think that, you know, we'd been married for four years at that point. We'd been together basically our entire adult lives, and, uh- as happy as I was with him, the marriage had gotten a little... You know, we, we were so, our lives were so circumscribed, and we were so, um, going along- You were in a rut. Yeah, a bit of a rut. And I think that, that, you know, going through this thing together, um, while, ugh, horrific in a lot of ways and something I never want to do again, really kind of strengthened- our, our bond, I think. Now, the book is doing extremely well. Has it cha- has it been a life-changing experience, the publication and the success of your book? Oh, yeah. Oh, of course. I mean, from a entirely practical point of view, I mean, the, just, just the fact that I'm not working as a secretary anymore- Mm-hmm and that I'm talking to you in my bathrobe is, is right there. Boom. Wonderful. Um- Francis is in love with you again, Julie. Oh, my. Well, our guest today has been, uh, Julie Powell. She's the author of a fascinating, wonderful read. If you're a foodie at all, you should pick it up. It's called Julie Julia, where for 365 days, she cooks 524 recipes in one tiny apartment kitchen from Julia Child's first cookbook, and the subtitle is How One Girl Risked Her Marriage, Her Job, and Her Sanity to Master the Art of Living. And we wanna thank you so much for coming on the show with us, Julie. Julie, thanks for being with us today. Thank you. It's been a joy. Thank you so much. Yeah, it's been a blast. Take care. Okay. Bye-bye. Bye. She's great. I love that. I, I've tried to cook a couple of Julia Child's recipes- Mm-hmm and I make a mess of it. I just can't do it. Yeah, and she really did get lambasted by people, and it... She put this- op-ed piece in the Times, We'll link- Yeah we'll link on our website to the, uh, to the op-ed piece. Oh, the op-ed piece. And she really, she really didn't say the things that the restaurant guys would normally have agreed with, and, actually, it, was lucky that we had read a lot of her other stuff

Speaker 4 18:23

Well, and it's great that we got her to

Speaker 5 18:24

come on the show and talk about it. Yeah. And I think that, you know, there are, there are two sides to many issues, and it's, uh, it's a really great environment world we live in. Yeah. I hope you've enjoyed the hour of listening to The Restaurant Guys. We are The Restaurant Guys. I'm Francis Shay. And I'm Mark Pascal.