Kim Benoy (00:01)
You are listening to Midlife with Courage. This is where women in midlife come for inspiration, motivation, and sometimes a little education to help them flourish after 40.
Don't forget to hit that follow or subscribe button so you don't miss an episode. Now let's get started.
Kim Benoy (00:19)
Hello everyone and welcome back to Midlife with Courage. I am Kim Benoy, your host. I'm so happy to have you all here. I am so happy also to have my guest with me here today. Her name is Toni LaMotta Welcome to the podcast, Toni.
Toni LaMotta (00:32)
Thanks so much, Kim. Delighted to be here.
Kim Benoy (00:34)
you are an inner compass coach, and we're going to talk about what that means. But you are talking about The vows that shut out our inner knowing our vows of obedience. What does that mean?
Toni LaMotta (00:45)
Well, you needed to know a little bit about my story to see why we use that. And I am a former Catholic nun. I mean, very former. It's many, many years ago, but I did spend 16 years.
in the convent and in the convent you take a vow of obedience which says don't trust yourself, listen to the outside authority, follow what someone else is saying and I don't know if they really meant that but I certainly lived that way. I shut down all of my own knowing and I began just listening and following the rules and following what everyone was telling me to do and I thought that would make me holy, you know.
was the right thing to do. When I eventually left after the 16 years, I started exploring all kinds of teachings and I really began recognizing that my inner voice really was leading me in the right directions when I learned to listen. And so I didn't do it consciously, but I discovered later that over the years, everything I was studying was teaching me how to try.
And so recently as I'm a new thought minister, but I recently gave up running churches and I'm doing online coaching. And what I found is that so many people really give their authority away. And so I discovered everybody takes vows, not of obedience necessarily, but for some they pay attention to what they're
parents were telling them, or they're listening to what's happening in the corporate world and their bosses, or they're into perfectionism, you know, or trying to please other people. And they may not call them vows, but they might as well, because they made that promise to themselves, to the world. And as a result, they shut down their own inner voice. Schools even teach us, you know, raise your hand, you don't have anything to say.
basically give me the answer I want. You know, it's like we were taught not to trust ourselves. And so it's no wonder when we get to midlife, we begin saying, wait a minute, I think I have some wisdom here. Maybe if I listen to myself instead of everybody else, I'd be better off. So.
Kim Benoy (03:02)
Right.
you
Yeah,
for sure. For sure. And that's, that's a huge thing. My key, one of my keys when I talk to other women is you've got all this inside of you, go back to it, find it again and bring it out again. And I love that. I love the idea of vows of obedience. That just, that really, resonates with me for sure. ⁓ Just going back to the convent for a second. Did you, why did you decide to leave after 16 years? Was it these thoughts were kind of happening or was it something else?
Toni LaMotta (03:37)
you
A little bit of that. Part of it was the church at that time was teaching things that I didn't totally agree with. And I felt like, can I be a representative of something? But I also felt a longing. I think I entered the convent because I had never seen a healthy marriage. I didn't know that at the time. I thought it was a sublime reason. And it was. It had some of that in it. But I grew up in an Italian family where the men
said when I say jump you ask how high on the way up and so you know I never wanted to be married and I think that was the default. I also always wanted to be a priest. I felt that calling from the time I was a little child. I mean it was like yeah that's who I am and of course that didn't happen and may never happen so when I left it was kind of a natural progression. What I've discussed
Kim Benoy (04:36)
interesting.
Toni LaMotta (04:47)
discovered recently when I'm looking at this whole inner compass is that I teach something called the Enneagram which is a, it's more than a personality typing system. It really is a tool for spiritual growth. And what I discovered is that type six is the type that's always worried, that's always waiting for the next shoot or drop, that doesn't trust themselves. Although we all have a taste of that in us and
They're looking for outside authority to tell them what to do. They're looking for who to trust. So I had lived for years in the perfect six environment and I'm not a six. So it was like, I'm a freedom lover, I'm a seven. And therefore I was around Peg in a square hole. And I guess I started to feel that more and more. And so...
Kim Benoy (05:28)
⁓
Toni LaMotta (05:42)
I don't think I knew that consciously, but there was something there that caused me to say, this isn't the right life. And so I went, continued my devotion to spirituality, to God, to, you know, that didn't change. I have a great deal of honor for what I learned. And for the past, I don't have negativity or regret. You know, it just, it just wasn't where I needed to continue to be.
I believe that everything that happens in life is meant and it's gift. So I see that in my own life. And now I see, oh my God, you're the perfect person to teach this because you lived it and it didn't satisfy you. I just wrote a book about just this whole concept and part of it, I talk about the difference between conditional trust and ground trust. And conditional trust says, who out there
Kim Benoy (06:26)
Yeah
Toni LaMotta (06:41)
or what system can I trust and follow? And that's what many people look for. It's like, where do I belong? How can I fit in? Who do I trust? But ground trust says, I know within me that everything is okay. And no matter what happens, I'm gonna land on my feet. And so I was living in conditional trust as a ground trust person. ⁓
Kim Benoy (07:09)
Yeah.
Toni LaMotta (07:11)
And now I teach people.
Kim Benoy (07:11)
⁓
Toni LaMotta (07:13)
notice the difference when you're seeking something. I mean, I don't even like the term spiritual seekers when people say they're seeking. Stop seeking. You know, I found and it pivots, it changes. It doesn't mean you stay in the same thing. But it's like, I'm not looking outside anymore for what I need to believe what I need to think who I need to follow. It's all within and
I am led to the groups and to the people that I need to be with. And it's true for all of us when we learn to listen.
Kim Benoy (07:45)
Yeah.
Yeah, when we go inside, we find what we need and that radiates out and yeah, we attract what we need. Interesting to me that you said you were conditional from the outside and you were in that convent for 16 years. How strong that must have been to keep you there that long.
that's important. Because as you said, we're talking about how we go to school and we're told to do this, we go to church, we're supposed to do this and ⁓ how strong that that is in our lives.
Toni LaMotta (08:21)
It's incredibly strong. find so many people.
who are in the wrong church environment, for example, and struggle to leave because that's their community. That's where their foundation has been. That's where, you know, their friends are. And, they're knowing that something's not right. You know, it's really challenging. And the same thing for me. I loved a lot of things about the religious life. it was a very comfortable existence. You didn't have to worry about things, basically. You were being taken.
care of. That's a lovely, a lovely piece. And the prayer life was really beautiful. And I lived in a community called Divine Compassion. You know, just the words alone. It's just very special. And there were a wonderful group of people. But it was ultimately not the right life for me. And, you know, that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it. But I learned that there's another way. I'm
Kim Benoy (08:56)
Right.
Hmm. Yeah.
Yeah.
Toni LaMotta (09:24)
so grateful that I now have that understanding when clients come to me and say, God, you don't know what it feels like. like, yes, I do. And I can probably help you because I have some tools that I've learned over the years and I can share them with you. And I find that when I do, people are like, ⁓ wow, I can learn to listen. And it does work. So.
Kim Benoy (09:35)
Actually, I do.
Yeah. Yeah,
I love that. So tell us about how you left that part of your life. And you're heading towards this inner compass ⁓ idea. tell us about that? How did you get there? Where did you start?
Toni LaMotta (10:07)
Well, you're called midlife with courage. So let's talk about midlife crisis. I was 33 when I left and I went through a very dark night and a very big crisis. Who am I? Where do I belong? What should I be doing? I actually got a degree in math because the convent needed math majors, not because I loved it. And so I went and became a computer programmer. I mean, you know me five minutes and you can tell that's not where I belong.
Kim Benoy (10:30)
wow.
Toni LaMotta (10:37)
But yeah, you on most people like you what? However, and when I mentioned GIF before, computer programming taught me to trust the computer.
Kim Benoy (10:37)
I already know I'm like, no.
Toni LaMotta (10:49)
and to know that I can't do a whole lot of damage. Now I work online. I know all kinds of things about computers and do all this work that most people my age shy away from. So it's like, ⁓ that's why that happened, you know? And I went from there to working in a company where I taught people how to use computer programs.
So the little better set off, but I was in an organization where they ⁓ were heavy drug users and there were all kinds of challenges that I didn't join in. So I didn't fit there either. And so I eventually left and started my own business. I've been a serial entrepreneur ever since. But it was quite a challenge and I call it my midlife crisis for a good 10 years.
Kim Benoy (11:11)
Mm.
Nice.
Toni LaMotta (11:41)
am
I, what am I doing? And eventually when I met the New Thought Church and began getting involved there, I'm like, oh God, do I have to do this? But I guess I'm called to ministry again. I eventually, you know, I took that on and started running churches and loved that too. That was a very, a very productive time and learned how to be with people, listen to people, you know, I think it
Kim Benoy (11:55)
Ha ha.
Toni LaMotta (12:11)
It taught me all the skills that I'm currently using.
Kim Benoy (12:14)
Yeah,
I think that brings up to I think in midlife, a lot of times my own journey, something will come in that I think, well, I can't do that. That's not me. But then I'll try it and like, wait a minute. Yeah, it is like, I love this. Is that kind of along the lines of what happened?
Toni LaMotta (12:34)
Yeah, well, you know, it's interesting. One of the things that I have studied over the years, integral theory, and it talks about, that's a whole, whole other bowl of worms we won't go to right now. But it teaches us that the more we're open to different perspectives, the more possibility we see, the greater our growth and maturity. And so what I have discovered is that when I allow myself like to open to something new, to
try something new. It is amazing what can happen. And I don't have to be stuck. And I think that's the other thing. People who are in midlife right now were born in a time where you were supposed to stay in the same job. And you know, my father was panicked when I left AT &T. How could you leave such a, you know, prestigious company that is solid and
Anyway, you know, and those were risks. And, you know, some of them didn't pan out so well. I went through some struggles over it. However, you know, Edison took a thousand times to create the lightbulb. You know, it's never failure. It's just another thing that isn't working and find the one that does. yeah, I think midlife is an opportunity to redirect our lives and say is what I'm
Kim Benoy (13:31)
Yep.
Sure.
Right.
Toni LaMotta (14:00)
doing who I am? Is this really serving my purpose? Does this make me happy? One of the things I had the opportunity to speak online at a church this past Sunday and I said to them, I'm going to challenge you. If something you're doing doesn't give you joy, give it up. Only do what gives you joy. Wow.
Kim Benoy (14:21)
Mm.
Toni LaMotta (14:24)
You know, and that's the criteria is should I do this or not? Does it give me joy? Does it fit my purpose? And those are powerful questions and scary because it often means switch where I am, what I'm doing.
Kim Benoy (14:40)
And I think so many of the women listening out there can relate to that. And yeah, we do, we get to this midlife and I guess I'm not quite sure what it is, but we just realized I don't have to be doing the same thing I've been doing. You know, I left a 27 year nursing career and I thought, my gosh, I'm to be, that's going to be so upsetting. Like, no, I loved it. It was awesome. Like check did that done onto the next.
A woman listening who says, Okay, I know that this whatever I'm doing is not bringing me joy. What do I do next? Then what?
Toni LaMotta (15:10)
Well, I...
don't recommend doing what I did. just cut one thing off and started another. you know, I think sometimes we can, you know, I love the title of your podcast is midlife with courage. And by the way, in the Enneagram world, the opposite of not trusting yourself is living with courage. it's exactly what happens when you learn to trust your inner compass, when you learn to trust. So I would suggest taking
small steps to begin listening within. And here's a technique. This is something that I often teach the people when I first meet them. And I learned it from a woman named Sonia Shoket. She is an amazing intuitive that ⁓ just bring in teacher. And she said, we all have two voices in us. And in Catholic school, I learned it was the devil and the angel. But I claimed that her metaphor is we all
Kim Benoy (16:07)
You
Toni LaMotta (16:10)
have a barking dog and a spirit voice. And we need to start noticing which one is speaking. The barking dog is loud. The barking dog is always saying, you should be doing this, you shouldn't be doing that. Be careful with this. Watch out for that. What about this? That's the barking dog. Spirit doesn't always tell us what we want to hear. So it's
It's not like it's what our ego wants, but it's a voice that's gentle, that's loving, and that makes perfect sense. And it makes sense not just with our head, but with our heart. Something in us, and we can actually feel the difference in our body. When that barking dog is barking, everything tightens. The stomach starts to hurt, your shoulders lift, you get headaches.
Kim Benoy (17:05)
you.
Toni LaMotta (17:08)
People
just dismiss that instead of listening. Pay attention. So to me, if you're trying to move into something new, don't jump to it. You know, I took at least five years before I left the convent when I knew I should. And I'm not suggesting take five years, but take your time. Don't necessarily, especially if you're anxious, if you're the type that's worried.
Kim Benoy (17:25)
That's a while.
Toni LaMotta (17:37)
about it. It's not going to help your anxiety. The best thing to do is to start paying attention and even start journaling a bit. You know, hey, when I was feeling this, this is what happened. When I was feeling this, this is what happened. And it will start to guide you and lead you and don't look outside. I love people to take my courses and to do things. You don't need courses. You don't need coaches. don't. No, no. Did I say that? I didn't mean that.
Kim Benoy (18:05)
I got it
recorded.
Toni LaMotta (18:08)
Well, the truth is that and this is one of the things that I pride myself on. I am not the kind of coach that tells anybody what to do. I'm the coach that stands beside you as you're discovering yourself and helps you to see and to notice and to ask the right questions, hopefully to get you to look within. So, yes, we need one another, but someone that's really struggling
with that, knows there's a change that's needed, be patient with it, but start to listen to those two voices. You know, I had a client once, a guy named Jerry, who I always remember him, he always came to me in crisis, but all I'd have to say to him, Jerry, what's your stomach telling you? God, the stomach's telling me don't. Well, there's your answer, you know, or, my God, you know, I'm thinking of moving across country.
and it gives me this incredible sense of peace. Well, you might consider it. It's interesting. It may not be what you thought, but notice what your body's saying. It never lies.
Kim Benoy (19:14)
Yeah.
Yeah,
yeah, we can get a lot of information from our body. We just aren't used to listening to it. At least I haven't been until recently, but yeah.
Toni LaMotta (19:31)
Well, and then
somebody recently taught me, you know, the body is the only time we're actually in the present moment. You know, our minds are always in the future or the past. Our emotions are all over the place, but our body is always here. So if you want to be in the moment, which is what every spiritual teaching teaches us to do, it's like, just feel your breath, your sensations. Be here right now. And when that happens,
Kim Benoy (19:54)
Yeah.
Toni LaMotta (20:01)
it clears your heart to know what you love and it actually quiets the mind so that you can start listening to the possibility, to the vision, rather than to the noise of what if or the I shouldn't or what's gonna happen.
Kim Benoy (20:21)
Yeah, you stop listening to that barking dog. It doesn't, it's not quite so loud. Yeah, I love that. so how does spirituality, I want to say religion, but how does that fit into your life now?
Toni LaMotta (20:27)
Exactly.
Well, I am now an ordained new thought minister in organization called Centers for Spiritual Living. I am also very much part of an organization called the Integral Christian Network. And integral theory, as I mentioned earlier, is recognizing that all paths that lead to God are good. So it's accepting of everyone, everything. And so I don't have a formal religion.
I never read the book, but I love the title called a religion of one's own and It's really I let myself really experience The next thing that shows up that I'm gonna learn from I'm really into the divine feminine So I speak a lot to Sophia is like be the wisdom for me before I come on any podcast I do a
it's yours, know, take it, speak through me. And I think that if I'm going to describe my own spirituality now, it's a much more feminine spirituality. It's an honoring of my own knowing. I had a wonderful teacher who taught me something that kind of opened up a lot for me is that there are three faces of God, and most of us get caught with one or two. And the three faces
Kim Benoy (21:36)
my gosh.
Toni LaMotta (22:03)
are the God beyond us, imminent face of God that we can't name, know, the Tao that can be named is not the Tao, the one question, what we think of, the God of our reasoning, if you will. Then there's the intimate God. And many people have a relationship with the Buddha, with Jesus, with angels, with saints, whatever. That's the more intimate face of God. But then there's the
face of God, recognizing that the child of an elephant is an elephant. So if we are children of God, we must be gods. And there is that divine spark within us. So I honor that. And I use all three of those at different times. There are some times I need an intimate connection and talk to God, mostly to Sophia, to guides and angels. I believe in all of that.
Kim Benoy (22:54)
Mm-hmm.
Toni LaMotta (23:00)
There are some times that I just need to think about it a little bit more. And so I'm more with the, you know, expanded infinite face of God. So the infinite face, the intimate face and the inner face. It's really helpful because most people and most religions stress one or the other and they put down the third. In New Thought, for example, we never talk to God, we speak as God. Well, I was missing that piece.
Kim Benoy (23:00)
Yeah.
Toni LaMotta (23:29)
And when I realized, wait a minute, don't throw any of the baby out with the bath water. You know, you can continue to grow. In integral theory, we call it transcend and include. You want to include what's good, which is why I look back at my convent days as something that was sacred. It was great. It was stressful to leave at 33 and not know the Beatles and not know anybody I can talk to because I never watched
Kim Benoy (23:30)
Mm.
you
Yeah.
Toni LaMotta (23:59)
TV, you know, but eventually I learned, you know, so I focused more on what I got from that rather than from what was missing.
Kim Benoy (24:01)
my gosh.
Yeah.
Which yeah,
I grew up as a Lutheran and we won't get into the whole story why I don't even go to church now, but, I still have a relationship with God and he's in me and I love the phrase that I'm the daughter of the King that it's kind of along those lines where that just like, even just sat up straighter when I said that, like that is such a big part of me. And I, you know, I just, I don't.
really feel like I have to go into a building every week and do all the usual things that we are supposed to do.
Toni LaMotta (24:41)
in the next few.
There was a period in my life I wrote some music and was very involved in the Catholic Charismatic and I wrote a song called I'm the King's Kid. And I used to teach that to all the kids. They loved it. I'm the King's Kid. And I still see that, although I'm more the Queen's daughter now, but a little bit of both. we don't have to throw away
Kim Benoy (25:04)
Yeah. Sure.
Toni LaMotta (25:08)
away
what we learned, but we don't also need to look for what I call before the conditional trust. It's not like, you know, I give you an example. When I was in the convent, ⁓ we had a rule called grand silence. At a certain hour of the night, you weren't even allowed to look at another person. No, nevermind, speak to them. I mean, it was grand silence. And one night someone was crying and I could hear it.
and everything in me wanted to go over and comfort her. So I did. And I remember waking up the next morning, because that was like a big rule to break. And I realized I didn't die. I wasn't struck down. I wasn't going to hell. Maybe there was something in me that knew when the rule was correct and when I should break it. I think that was the beginning of my opening to my own knowing.
Kim Benoy (25:57)
Yeah.
Toni LaMotta (26:07)
I remember it like it was yesterday and it was probably 50 years ago, you know, so just amazing. We learn, we follow and we can follow our own heart.
you know, it shows us exactly what needs to happen. And it was so powerful to say, I do remember waking up thinking, my God, I'm gonna be struck dead. Look what I just did. And then I'm like, hmm, maybe not. Maybe there's something to this knowing that, you know, I can trust myself.
Kim Benoy (26:42)
Yeah, I think that
happened for a reason too, that was meant for you to do that. I love that. Well, Tony, you've talked about that. You're a coach, you're an inter compass coach. How would people learn more about what you do and maybe tell us a little bit about how you help other people.
Toni LaMotta (26:56)
The simplest way of getting in touch is to go to my website and sign up for the newsletter. And I send somebody ⁓ a PDF that talks about why don't I trust myself? And it talks a little bit about the values that we take. the website is simply my name, tony, t-o-n-i-l-a-m-o-t-t-a.com. And they can sign up right there. There's lots of good information on the website as well.
And what I do is, I have a unique system. It's a six month hybrid program where people can do training and they do the training mostly on their own. And then once a week we come together as a group to do coaching and questions.
Now, very often when somebody's not quite ready to do six months, I just invite them into any one of the trainings, anything that I'm teaching at the time that, for example, this month I'm starting something on a visioning process, learning the difference between visualization and visioning. Visualization is this is what I want and I'm going to see it until I get it. Visioning is I'm going to find out what I really want, what God wants.
very easy.
Kim Benoy (28:15)
that just gave me goosebumps.
Toni LaMotta (28:17)
it's a very powerful process and we do that for six weeks and then, every six weeks or so I start a different module on. So people can come in at any point. They can come in and just do one or join the entire six months, which obviously is where the biggest transformation happened. I'm watching the people that are with me now that we're into like the fourth month and one of them came back from a conference where she
Kim Benoy (28:19)
Yeah.
Toni LaMotta (28:44)
said,
I gave myself away, Tony, and I listened to what everybody told me was true about me. And then I went, my inner compass wouldn't say that. And I howled laughing and thought, yes, you're getting it. And she said, you know, I'm believing in myself a lot more. And I know I can trust myself. And I'm like, this works. And and it's not an overnight thing. You don't all of a sudden go from not trusting to trusting everything. But you can learn.
Kim Benoy (28:59)
Yay.
Right.
Toni LaMotta (29:14)
techniques and you know and and I have some powerful trainings that I've learned over the years. I only wrote one of them the other four are things that I've learned from other people that I now incorporate.
Kim Benoy (29:30)
Okay, wonderful.
Well, so yeah, so listeners, if you are interested in that, go to her website. And you don't just work with midlife women, correct? You work with anybody? Yeah.
Toni LaMotta (29:39)
Yeah, with anyone. Yeah. However, the people
that are most attracted are usually midlife women or some older. My oldest client was 94.
Kim Benoy (29:47)
Yeah.
Really?
Toni LaMotta (29:53)
She
made her transition at 95, but she came to every training I ever did. It was amazing. And Kim, I'll tell you a wonderful story. We knew she was making her transition. And so I held a memorial for her online and she was present for it. was amazing, amazing experience. And just, was my, you know, my last gift to her and the last teaching.
Kim Benoy (30:14)
⁓
Toni LaMotta (30:23)
And when I asked her what she was doing, knowing these were her last days, she said, I'm going over all the notes of the classes that you've taught. I mean, it was like, oh my God, I'm so moved. mean, she, know, dear to my heart, never stopped learning, never stopped growing, you know, and contributed so much every time she would come to a class. Her wisdom was incredible.
Kim Benoy (30:37)
Yeah. Yeah.
my gosh.
Yeah,
I was gonna say I bet the other people who were in her realm too were just like, so benefited from that so much too. Yeah, what a gift. Wow. Very powerful. Very powerful. Yeah. Well, Tony, I feel like we could just keep talking. But we have to end this. Before we go, is there any one last little piece of advice you'd give the women listening?
Toni LaMotta (30:57)
Totally, totally. Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, I did a podcast yesterday and they asked the exact same question and I wound up saying, take life more lightly. You know, it's like.
We need to live with a lot more joy. Shut off the news, stop paying attention to all the horror that's going on around us at the time, and start listening to that voice of spirit, and start being that person who can live. And I'm not saying deny what's going on or ignore the pain, but I'm looking at being more gentle with yourself
would find something to laugh at every day. I I look at little YouTube videos and make sure that I'm laughing and just allowing life to be joyful.
Kim Benoy (32:04)
Love that. I love that so much. I'm trying to do that. Well, Tony, thank you so much for joining me today. This has been a great conversation. We'll talk to you soon.
Kim Benoy (32:13)
You've been listening to Midlife with Courage. If you liked what you heard, I would love it if you would leave a review. Or even better, send a link of this episode to a friend. Until next time, take care of your beautiful self.
