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The Relationship Blueprint: Unlock Your Power of Connection
Colleen is a student of Dr. Harville Hendrix and Dr. Helen LaKelly Hunt who created the Imago Theory and have brought this work to over 50 countries around the world. She is profoundly influenced by this belief shared by Dr. Harville Hendrix. He said, "We are born in relationship, wounded in relationship and healed in relationship."
What are you struggling with today? Colleen believes that almost any problem we have began with a broken or unhealed relationship. The anxiety or deep sadness we feel often began with unresolved issues in our relationships with our parents, partner, family or friends. When we have unmet needs we are programed to get those needs met. When we don't get what we need we protest by protecting ourselves. this often looks like defensive, critical, demanding behaviors. these behaviors are most often ineffective. As a result we may develop unhealthy relationship with food, sex, gambling our or a substance.
Colleen invites world renown relationship specialists from all over the world to help her guests explore their own relationships and see their problems through a relational lens. She will help us explore how to create intimacy to deepen our connections. Her listeners will gain insights to create a more joyful life.
Colleen is a Licensed Professional Counselor in the state of South Carolina, a certified, Advanced Imago Clinical therapist, a clinical instructor for the Imago International Trading Institute while maintaining her clinical practice in Hilton Head Island, South Carolina.
Thank you for joining Colleen today. Remember, don't let life happen to you. You can be the architect of your relationships. Join her next time on the Relationship Blueprint; Unlock Your Power of Connection.
Contact Colleen at colleen@hiltonheadislandcounseling.com for questions or to be a guest on the show!
The Relationship Blueprint: Unlock Your Power of Connection
Episode 5: Imago Therapy and the Journey to Relationship Mastery
Ever wondered how to hurricane-proof your relationship? Welcome back Michelle Bohls, a sought-after expert on relationship dynamics, who shares her wisdom on how to remain connected and reduce reactivity when life's storms hit. Dive into the world of "relationship hygiene" and learn how daily practices like expressing gratitude can fortify your bond. Michelle also sheds light on managing the mind's negative biases to prevent our "grumpy brain" from taking the driver's seat in our relationships.
Immerse yourself in the transformative world of Imago therapy, where ongoing education and curiosity fuel the journey from mechanics to artisanship. We delve into creating safe learning environments for both clinicians and clients, emphasizing the power of community and continuous learning. Exciting training opportunities are on the horizon, promising a sense of professional home and hope that Imago therapy provides. Leave inspired to become the architect of your life, designing meaningful relationships that truly matter.
Thank you for joining me today on the Relationship Blueprint. Remember, don't let life happen to you. You can be the architect of your relationships. So join me next time on the Relationship Blueprint; Unlock Your Power of Connection.
Contact Colleen at colleen@hiltonheadislandcounseling.com for questions or to be a guest on the show!
Hey everybody, welcome back to the Blueprint Unlocking your Power of Connection. And we're back today with Michelle Bowles, by Popular Demand. Hey, michelle, it's so good to see you. It's good to see you too. Yeah, you're in Costa Rica right now, right?
Speaker 2:I am. I'm in Costa Rica right now.
Speaker 1:And I am in Hilton Head, south Carolina, and we are waiting for Debbie to arrive.
Speaker 2:Yes, hoping that you're safe and as many people as possible can stay safe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that we'll be okay. I think that their main concern is flooding and tornadoes.
Speaker 2:Scary.
Speaker 1:And I'm thinking about all the people that are out there waiting for this too right, the Southeast is going to be pretty gripped by this and wondering about how we manage our own reactivity around. We usually focus on couples and relationships, but really around anything?
Speaker 2:Yeah, but things like this really make you realize how important relationships are in emergencies, in scary situations, how reliant we are on each other as a human race. For you know, we're relying on the emergency medical teams and emergency workers and everybody to work together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's absolutely true. In fact, I'm hearing sirens right now. But I'm also thinking, as you just said that, michelle, about being in relationship, whether you're waiting for an event you know, in this case certainly a weather event but that how, when our nervous system is heightened you know my husband right now is upstairs working. You know, kevin and we had some things we had to do this morning to get ready for the storm how that can look so different when couples are not connected, or even just the nervous energy about what's coming can be very dysregulating. So what advice do you have for our listeners about that? Like, obviously we're talking about a storm, but really about anything? Because it feels like a storm when we're about to have an argument, when we're waiting for difficult news or heard difficult news.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, you just brought up the most important point is the preparation, how important it is to be prepared for whatever life's going to throw at us, and that we we do that through what I consider kind of like relationship hygiene. So I do that by thinking about what I'm grateful for about Stephen, telling him what I'm grateful for about him giving him the behaviors that help him feel loved. You know, those are the things that prepare us for any storm.
Speaker 1:Let me make sure that we really highlight listeners, because what you're saying is it's like hurricane preparedness is relationship preparedness and you use a really interesting term relationship hygiene. Used a really interesting term, relationship hygiene and what you highlighted for us really is that you make sure you appreciate Steven, you give him appreciations, you let him know when he does things that make you feel loved.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely, but also my commitment to deliver the things that I know help him feel loved.
Speaker 1:And your commitment to help him, to deliver those things that help him feel loved, Exactly when you really don't know what those things are. When a couple you know, you and Stephen, have done a lot of work in a month, we have yeah, and so have Kevin and I. You know, sometimes I think people think that this relationship looks so easy, you know, and what they don't see behind the doors is all of the hard work and um and rough days that we've been through. Um, it hasn't all been the uh, the light and breezy road, but that with Imago and what we are able to share, it's so much lighter.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I just want to add something. So it is about sort of the me delivering these things. You know the appreciation, the behaviors First, even it's, you know it's physical touch, it's, it's appreciations. It's pretty straightforward, um, but it's the hygiene part is what's important. The daily me cleaning up my brain which has a negative bias, me brushing away the negative stories, resentments, to reveal the positive, to really implement the positive. So it's like, um, you know it, it's the hygiene part is really for my brain. Now he is the receiver of these gifts, right?
Speaker 1:But so let me see if I've got you. So if you didn't have your own hygiene, just like if you didn't brush your teeth, you know your breath and your teeth, yeah, be very good, right. So if you didn't have this hygiene, stephen would also be the recipient of the outcome of that. Well, that's true, he is the recipient of the outcome of that.
Speaker 2:Well, that's true, he is the recipient of the grumpy brain.
Speaker 1:Right, right. So really, this inner awareness, self-reflection, whatever works for us individually? For me, it's prayer and meditation. If I don't have that, I can also be the grumpy brain. Yeah, I can be the the grumpy brain. Yeah, critical, I can be the critical partner and that hygiene becomes really important. Yeah, you want to tell us more about that?
Speaker 2:Well, just that, that's the beginning. That's the beginning is getting clear in ourselves our intentions, what we're putting into the space, and then the actions of doing that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So not only clearing the space, knowing what our partner needs, and then actually the follow through of giving them the love that they need is what you need. Yeah, giving them the love that they need is what, yeah, yeah, you're, you're a. So this weekend, michelle, you know that I was in Florida and I was at a speaking cabin and I both were at a marriage conference and it was really a wonderful experience. And I know you're getting ready to do a clinical training in Austin, texas, and that is October 3rd.
Speaker 2:October 3rd. Yeah, and so excited to train in person. It's. You know, it's been years of a lot of training online.
Speaker 1:So when, when you? Because I'm also training October 3rd on Hilton Head in person, so it's cool that we're both offering the training at the same time, different parts of our country. But that in person was really magical this weekend, and not that online doesn't work, because it does, it does. It was pretty powerful. It's taking me back to the questions some of the couples come in with, at least in my practice and then in this conference I just left, which is I really want you to fix her or I want him, and what you just really said, like where do you begin is with that self-hygiene right the intention and being conscious yeah.
Speaker 1:The intention and then being conscious. You know, I think a lot of people that are listening may say conscious. What do you mean about becoming conscious? What does that mean really? Can you talk to me? Yeah?
Speaker 2:Well, that's a very deep question, I think. I think it's a very deep question because I think there's levels. There's levels of it's basically awareness from the drug of choice, but it could also just be aware of your needs, of your feelings, of what's going on between you and the people in your life. It's like levels of awareness, levels of sobriety, if you would. It really varies. But we can even go further into it in that some people believe consciousness is kind of all there is and that we create a reality with our consciousness. I mean, it goes really into like kind of quantum physics.
Speaker 1:I hear what you're saying about levels of consciousness and I think it does begin with awareness because, if I am, I watch these couples get really educated in just a couple days about moving from their unconscious behaviors and choices to making more conscious decisions and therefore exhibiting behaviors that are more conscious. And how, when you described, when you know that Stephen needs physical touch and maybe that's not your love language and it may not come to you and intuitively to do that for him, but you move from the unconscious, which is giving him kind of what you need versus what he needs it's an example of moving from that unconscious behavior to a more conscious, intentional relationship.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, and there's another level, because in a relationship there's two consciousnesses, there's two of us, and so I actually love giving physical touch very. I mean that that was sort of the thing that really worked for both of us is I grew up in a very cold family, not a lot of touch, and so it really worked for us that we both love like we're cuddly hugger, you know, we love it. But what's interesting is when Stephen's not in a good place, his awareness level that he's receiving goes down.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So it's both. It's like, it's a very, it's very much like you know you have to coordinate like a dance. You know you have to be really coordinated in what are you giving and what are you receiving. So oftentimes in our work it's really a love laboratory In this couple. They've never existed before. They're like two little snowflakes, never existed and they won't exist the same way again in a few weeks. They're always changing. The world's changing them, they're changing each other and so we like throw in these experiments about what can they give and what can they receive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and being aware, like a scientist has to be aware of the experiment. It can't just be like, oh well, let's leave this cheese out on the countertop and see what happens. You have to like control for what's going to happen and you have to have a gift to really be thoughtful about the experiment. So with a couple, we want to be thoughtful about. You know what does steven I want more of in our relationship.
Speaker 2:So I just talked to um, sorry, I just talked to jen greenberg. Yeah, jen greenberg just finished her PhD on romance novels and their impact on couples and how they increase sex and romance and all these really good things in the couples by using the romantic novel, reading it together, sending scenes to each other, like it really is, like this new way of getting excitement into the relationship. So I asked her for book recommendations. I was like, oh, steve and I we're really been working on this erotic connection. I mean, we're in our 50s, we're working on making it even more amazing, yeah, and getting rid of sexual shame, which we both had body shame and sexual shame. And so she gave me some recommendations. But that's like that's what we're working on right now in terms of giving and receiving, and how do we become more conscious about how, how romance starts, how romance builds, how sex builds, how you know how we create these experiences for each other and and just becoming more educated, I guess, on ourselves and our partner.
Speaker 1:It's interesting that you talk about this because, as you were saying, I have my brain was firing in all different directions because I also read the email. Is it Jen Greenberg? Yeah, so I thought it was fascinating. Have used bibliotherapy to help people with whatever's going on, but no one has said let's use romantic novels to reignite the spark. That does need to be reignited. It doesn't just happen.
Speaker 1:The conference that we just did was called Rekindle, because the couples that were there were committed couples and there was a couple there that was getting married like in December, a couple there that was married 50 years, and people were there for with all kinds of needs and desires, either they were really considering getting divorced or a couple of these young couples were so inspiring because they're like we just want to learn how to do this better than our parents did and we're so happy right now. We want to prevent the hurt from happening. So I thought that the continuum kind of describes what happens in our workshops, doesn't it? Yeah, I think people sometimes think that a workshop means that you're really in trouble and you better get there, because you can only go if you're in trouble and you're having a workshop, which is awesome in England.
Speaker 2:Yes, this may not come out before then, but yeah, we're going to do a retreat version, um, but yeah, I wanted to respond to what you were sharing about, uh, the spark, re-sparking romance. I think from this is just my perspective now as a couples counselor, and I'm in my 50s. I think a lot of it is. I think that was a concept that I heard a lot about, but for me, a lot of it is about aging, that what I need sexually is changed so much as I'm in my 50s it was very different in my 30s and so you know I just I need more, uh, well, stuff that doesn't look like. You know the movies, yeah, you know, it's slower, it's more romantic, it's more story oriented, like I just need different things now, and so I think that some of this, like rekindling later in the relationship, it's not as much about like it got stale yeah because that hasn't been my experience.
Speaker 2:It's just that everything coming before that. I just need more. I need more dating, more romance, more foreplay, more everything coming before that.
Speaker 1:You know it's interesting, Michelle, because in my interview with Sophie Slade about this very topic, she wrote the book Satisfying Sex for Committed Couples. She talks about how she and David, their sex life didn't get better, dialoguing about what was wrong.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 1:So she's developed a sexual appreciation dialogue, one about your partner when you do this, what it makes me feel in my body and why I feel loved when that happens, etc. Right yeah, she also wrote one about my sexual appreciation, about myself.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Really, because what you're describing is your own needs and if you can't identify them which you did so beautifully just talking about you need more romance and the story and the slowing down and the dating Like if you can't articulate your needs, then your partner cannot hit the mark. And she also really, I think, highlights when I think in our youth I'm going to speak for myself that sex was about the goal. It was about the orgasm. You know, if you're not there then it doesn't really count. And she really focuses, encourages couples, all couples, even young couples to focus also on that whole process of intimacy and how stealing an intimate moment, like you're cooking dinner and you don't have time to have sex Maybe you have a call like this coming up, but giving Stephen that juicy kiss and saying you know, without saying it, it's not now but maybe later that sometimes we hold ourselves back from those moments because we don't have enough time.
Speaker 1:But, we don't do it at all.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, oh, I can't wait to listen to that podcast.
Speaker 1:Well, I think you know Sophie, you know her and she's also very funny, but she's so real so real, so brilliant. So you're talking about what you need in your relationship. When I'm thinking about the clinical training, I'm thinking about all the therapists out there. And how do you talk to therapists about why this training? Why is a MAGO clinical training the training to take? Because there's other stuff out there, People you know, there's Gottman, there's EFT.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's all great.
Speaker 2:Right, but there is something about this work for me that is kind of powering up well, I think you know, if you're not kind of romantic idealist, this is probably not going to appeal to you. Um, if you like, you know assessments and charts and graphs and if that's your thing, like, this is a very much experiential heart open. You, you know intuitive type work and I and I think most of us, we want to transform the world Like. We don't want to just like save one couple, we want to like transform that couple and transform the way we communicate as a civilization. So if that's like, if you, if you relate to that, then you're going to love a Imago and you're going to love the clinical training. And there's so much content out there, there's information. Imago has been around for like 30 years plus, I don't even know. So you can get the book, you can read it, you can learn it from a book.
Speaker 2:But the clinical training the reason I think you want to do the clinical training, but the clinical training, the reason I think you want to do the clinical training, there's probably three reasons. One, it'll improve your relationships. It just will. It's going to improve not just your whatever, whoever you're partnered with, but really all your relationships, because you really learn by through experience how this works and that's what blows the people away. When they come in and just in the first day they're like whoa, this is so different, so different. It's very heart opening. There's a lot of safety that's created in the training. It's not a competitive environment where you leave feeling kind of one-upped or one-downed or whatever. So, yeah, the experience of it will improve your relationships.
Speaker 2:I think the second reason that you're going to want to take this training is that it will build your confidence as a clinician that we don't get positive feedback about our work. It's very oriented towards criticism. If we get supervision at all, it's like, kind of from we're novices in their expert positions, you know, and they're going to tell us what to do. And in this training it's very much like you tell you give yourself feedback first and you really celebrate what you like about what you did, and then your colleagues celebrate what they like about what you did. And I find most of the people I train with never knew they have a melodious voice or that they have a presence or that the way they language things is really helpful. Like they get this feedback and they're like it's like almost like a horoscope, like they're like that's me, I am like that. Um, so the confidence in the competency both that build through this training.
Speaker 2:It helped me not just with my couples but with all my professional work, running groups, working with individuals. So first one is improves your relationship. Second one is build your confidence and competence. And the third one is improves your relationship. Second one is builds your confidence and competence. And the third one is are the connections, the professional connections that you'll make in this training.
Speaker 2:I, you know, built a huge network in Austin, texas, where I worked for 15 years, knew lots and lots of people regularly, was, was invited to coffee, you know, went to parties, joined organizations, and my deepest connections have been with the Mongol community. Because it is experiential, it's beyond coffee, it's beyond chit chat, it's beyond theory, it's like sharing with each other our hearts, our struggles, our hopes, and so there's just a professional connection unlike anything else. That I've never found in any other conference or or CEU training that I've ever taken, and I've taken them all. So I just think those are the three things that I found about the clinical training that really impressed me and make it so joyous for me to teach it, as well as when I get to participate.
Speaker 1:So really that your relationships will change your personal relationships and you will gain the confidence and the competency that really is so necessary in the office, especially if you're going to help couples or families. That group dynamic it's everything and people think that they know how to do something until they get into a messy situation with a couple and then it's. I remember this vividly like it's scary because we can do more harm than good without proper training, that confidence and that competency. And then the third one you mentioned really is the connections that we develop and the access.
Speaker 1:That's one of the reasons I'm doing this blueprint podcast is because I have had, I have access to people like you, the best therapist in the world, and that's why it's hard for me to recommend therapists, um, because if the only people I think of are people like you, michelle and other abo therapists, that even if you're going for individual work, I mean I believe in this paradigm so much, the relational paradigm, that it's hard to see anything else without the lens of a relationship. And I think that this is kind of all that you said in those three great descriptors of why do imago clinical training. But it's transformational, it changed who I am. It literally. I mean, maybe it didn't change me. I should rephrase that it helped me recover who I am.
Speaker 2:I love that you said it that way, because I feel the same way. It really it stripped away a lot of these adaptations that I had built up trying to get through school and make it in the world and it really stripped them away and I feel like I'm more the essence of who I was as a child.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, that purity of the goodness, the ability to just experience joy, and then the suffering that happens doesn't last so long because the tools are there to get through them, we have the resources to navigate them and not alone and not doing it alone. I also love the ongoing supervision that Imago Clinical Training offers. That I don't know exists as much in other modalities modalities I was in a group supervision, consultation, slash group therapy for about 12 years and that group finally ended because people retired and now I have a new cohort as part of the faculty that supports me and a new mentor. But that mentoring early on was so important to my continued growth that somebody and they really like my mentor really wanted me to be successful and didn't just drop me. Okay, now you've finished your training, you're out in the world. No, I'm right here, I'm going to support you because I want you to give your clients the best and be the best you in that space that you can be. That's a big difference, I think in our clinical training that I have really loved.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that comes out of the fact that we're an international, global community, of the fact that we're an international, you know, global community and so, most like a lot of organizations, I'll join an organization. It will be a lot of people just coming out of school looking for some help or guidance and not a lot of wisdom. Not a lot of elders in the community and the organizations where there's where it's really worth going and training have that wisdom. But what's cool is in Imago it's not, it's not just the trainers, it's I mean, there are people who have been doing this work for 20-30 years more who are still involved with the community and still wanting to learn.
Speaker 2:And I think that is to me that's the big shift is when we go into a classroom, we are working with a model that's actually similar to the medical model, where there's an expert or a teacher and the student is somehow deficient and needs to be helped, and then we are like graded on how well we learn, something which takes all the fun out of learning, I think.
Speaker 2:And so we come into a lot of the clinical trainings to learn whatever it is we're going to learn with a lot of pressure, a lot of anxiety about like, well, I do good, how am I going to do? And this paradigm is like I'm having the training right, I'm supporting the training, I'm there to share what I know, but ultimately I'm there to learn from the students, we're there to learn from each other, and that learning continues. It goes all the way through for years and years and years. That's what you're describing is. You know, we call them supervision groups, but really I would think of them as like learning groups, where we're sharing what worked, what didn't work, we're getting support, we're getting ideas and to me there's a lot of aliveness in that. I don't know about you, but I've gone to so many trainings where it just felt really dead, really heavy.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just got tired. I was like, oh, I just want to go home now.
Speaker 1:Well, and, and what I would also say, it's really the ongoing work, when people are offering webinars or whatever in our community that are very seems to be very appropriate, based on, like cultural issues that we're facing, that we really need to be more cognizant. How do we show up? We're conscious, right. How do we show up for our clients, as life goes on and our world changes and their issues may change, and there's always some webinar that we can be part of within our community that supports that and that's also invigorating to me. Yes, that no one seems to. Even Harville doesn't seem to know it all. Even Harville Hendricks, the founder of our theory, seems to be a lifelong learner, which is why I think it's such an alive and moving organization.
Speaker 2:Yes, well, it's antithetical to our work. Our theory is that you know, basically, you know it's grounded in physics, it's grounded in energy and the flow of information and energy, and that everything is a phenomenon and so it's unknowable, so we can't have answers, and so we bring that energy, that curiosity, to our work and we bring it to the couple, and that takes so much pressure off us as a clinician, when we can really develop that which is probably the biggest thing that you're going to develop in the clinical training, is we're going to keep coming back to that Don't know, don't know you. It's better to not know and hold space and let the couple figure it out.
Speaker 1:I think that's really what, and I know that you on Facebook you have it's called in the Space Between. Is that the name of the Facebook group?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's called. Is my book here? It's not right here Doing Imago in the Space Between Doing Imago in the Space. Between, it's Harville's clinical book.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, and if you are interested at all in doing the clinical training and you're on the fence, you certainly can reach out to Michelle or myself or a lot of the faculty, and you can find us at Imago International Worldwide, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and ImagoCertificationAndTrainingcom is where you'll find all the trainings. But yeah, the Facebook group it's that name, doing Imago in the Space Between and there are pre-recorded book discussions that we've already had on the preface and introduction and chapter one, and we'll be doing chapter two coming up here. It's a very dense book. It's not like any other clinical book. It's like he has his sort of public book of Getting Love, you Want. That's been a bestseller and been in the domain of like easy to read books. This is a clinical book and it is deep and it is rich, and so the book discussion really helps us unpack all the wisdom that is in that book.
Speaker 1:Well, I want to, just because the title In the Space Between because I'm going back to what you said about what clinicians and couples can get from our work is that the focus really is on the space between that John is not my client, Mary is not my client it is that space that they have created and that they are the experts of their relationship. We are there to facilitate this communication so that they might find solutions and connection in their relationships, but that learning how to do that is very nuanced and not not any. You can read a book on your own, and do. I think, though, unfortunately, there are therapists out there that are not certified and that perhaps have read the book and feel, maybe in all honesty, that they can do it.
Speaker 1:Um, and what I would just suggest is that, you know, I'm 14 years in and I'm learning every day, and the training was but the beginning of that knowledge. I love when I think I may have heard this from you. I know that a lot of us teach this, but in the clinical training, you will start out as a craftsman and then we move to be uh, help me, help. No, we start out as mechanics, because we we learn the mechanics of the dialogue. And then we move to be craftsmen and then eventually artisans. Is that correct? Do?
Speaker 2:I have that right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I love that journey of it because that is really the truth. I mean, I used to say that when I was teaching teachers how to teach first grade, it doesn't really matter what you're teaching First is the mechanics. You have the science of it. You have to know what you're teaching and then you move to the art. You're trying to become more creative in your work and eventually you are able to combine the art and the science so that you become truly that, that artisan of the art of teaching, because it is, it's really it is yeah, um, I'm reading this book right now.
Speaker 2:The courage to teach. I love that book. Tell me what. This is such an amazing book, I mean. I, I have every page underlined. Um, there's just so much in here. And I I mean, if you, if you care about learning, if that's a passion of yours, it's such a great book. And to me, the clinical training is about creating a learning environment for the clinician, for the therapist or the coach, depending on who I'm teaching, but creating a learning environment where mistakes are valued, we celebrate our mistakes, we learn from our mistakes. There's no wrong. You know, it's a brainstorming, improv type environment where we're learning together and we're creating this safe learning environment and then, if we do a good job, the clinician will then create that safe learning environment in their office for the couple.
Speaker 2:Then create that safe learning environment in their office for the couple. So to me it's really about creating learning environments for the couple where the couple can bring in oh we made a mistake, we had a bad fight, oh it went bad or even behaved badly in my office and I'm just like no worries, you know I'm grandma, you're the kid, it's a little pejorative, but you know I'm like, you can't do anything wrong in grandma's world here, like anything. You throw yourself down on the floor and have a tantrum. Okay, we'll wait for you to finish and then we'll get back to what we all let's have some cookies and keep going Like that in learning environment where couples can feel safe to struggle because it is a struggle and we have to first give the clinician that experience, that it's okay for them to struggle.
Speaker 1:And I can remember it so vividly, feeling so nurtured into becoming the therapist that I knew that I could be.
Speaker 1:Or I don't even know if I knew that I could be that, but the impetus was to grow into my own brilliance. Yes, my own brilliance, and that's what's given in our training is that it's not fake encouragement, like you can do it. It is so genuine, because it's a mindset of the Imago way, that we really believe that that innate perfection is within all of us, and it's just been covered up with all these, as you said, adaptive behaviors that are really not very effective. But heck, kept us alive for a pretty long time, that we could even come to a training like this, that we were even able to take that seat, but it's really the beginning. So if I'm a therapist who doesn't even know I want to do couples, what do you? What do you tell me?
Speaker 2:that's my favorite trainee. Yeah, well, I have two. I have the one that is like they have done, uh, trauma therapy. They're probably certified in the emdr, they've done eft, they've done some Gottman, they you know whatever it is hypnosis. They love to train, they have all the certifications because that person so appreciates the depth of this training and it is so rich. It has many, many, many layers, because you're applying it to your own life, you're applying it clinically, you know you're having just a very rich experience.
Speaker 2:So, but I also really love the person who's a doubter, who's a questioner, who's like I don't even want to work with couples at all, um, but I. But they see that most of the stuff that shows up in their office is about relationships and that they do need to develop some, some ability to be savvy about relationships. Because if you uh, you know, if you understand trauma, it's great, you can treat trauma. But people need the skills to have a satisfying life and have to love and be loved, and if you can't, if you have that but you but you have a trauma that's not processed well, you're not going to be able to do what you need to do.
Speaker 2:So both are important and I think a lot of people are realizing I need relationship training. I really need a deep dive into that as and and learn about it, even if I don't work with couples per se. So I love that kind of person who comes in. They're like I'm not sure, I'm not sure I want to do relationship work because in a way, I think they're better at it. I think sometimes the person who doesn't know anything in a way picks up and becomes a master more quickly because they have less like bad habits that they have to overcome yeah.
Speaker 1:Or unlearn.
Speaker 2:Or unlearn. That's what I mean, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think you know as you were talking about. You know the students that have had a lot of training and they aren't even sure that they want to do relational work. I'm thinking how do you do work that isn't relational Right? I mean?
Speaker 2:I Well, yeah, that's the thing. Once you understand it, then you hear it in all your clients. You understand that how much of what's presenting is a relational dilemma about how do I get my needs met here, whether it's at work or in their relationships or with their friendships. And they don't know they have all these adaptations. They don't know the other person does and they don't really they have all these adaptations they don't know the other person does and they don't really know how to navigate through. And, of course, the technique of listening and holding space and all that is not that much different. But when you understand it it just allows you to work in a different way, with more confidence and less anxiety, to just hold that space for them and let them talk through it, and you kind of know where they're going to be needing to go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was speaking you were mentioning recovery earlier and I was speaking to a man in his 40s not that long ago who was talking about his recovery, and then he talked about his dad's recovery and what he was saying made so much sense relationally because he said when his dad used to drink, he wasn't there. You know, even if he was physically there, he really wasn't there, not present. And then he said, said, and then when he found the 12-step program, he wasn't there, because he's meetings and on the phone with sponsors and on the phone with this one and on the phone with that one, and while he was so happy that his dad was getting help, of course he was still really absent. And looking at the work of Gabor, mate and others and the movement in recovery from the okay, you come in, you're sober, you need to focus on you Well, I think that that is sometimes unhelpful, because people then get really good at their relationships with the people in recovery and then go home and don't know how to be in relationship with the people that they love, oh yeah, and that need their connection so much because they've been gone, so much because they've been gone, and so how to do that becomes really again one of those nuanced things that I believe Imago therapy can help couples do in a way that helps them take care of themselves, help, like you said, my relational hygiene with me and not the or, and then show up for the people that I love because there's it.
Speaker 1:I don't know of anybody in recovery who doesn't say the hardest thing about recovery is the relationship. Yeah, yeah, how do I do this? How do I even have sex sober? How do I do this? How do I even have sex sober? How do I? Yeah, with all that you know has happened, all this history that we have, it's easier to sort of put that away and not think about it and just think about my new recovery, my new spiritual life and my new spirit friends. So I, when you were talking about EMDR and all these other trainings that are wonderful and and what tools that people have, how wonderful it is that they're crucial.
Speaker 2:Really, I think they're crucial. I think those should be taught at the master's level.
Speaker 1:Yes, because they're so vital but that what we offer in this clinical training can help with any kind of connection that people really need to reconnect, repair, rekindle, yes, whatever I think if you have those two, if you, if you have some trauma training, you have this training.
Speaker 2:There's really no one who could walk into your office that you couldn't be helpful with. They're so vital and you cannot just have one and make it in practice anymore. I don't think this. I mean it's kind of a strong statement, but I just think we really need both of those tools in our practice to be effective. And I would say that you know the clinical training is a huge commitment. It's typically about it's a little over $4,000. Typically with by the time you get all the training and the supervision and you get your final recording to get your certification. But you can usually do that first four days and for like a thousand dollars. Very, that's affordable, reasonably for our field. But what I would say is start with the workshops. If you're partnered, start with a couple's workshop. If you're not partnered, start with a keeping workshop for individuals and just immerse yourself in this for the two or two and a half days. That is going to give you the best indication if you want to do this work.
Speaker 1:I like that, michelle, because I really think that, well, that's how I got hooked. I was at a workshop and we'll talk about that a different episode, but it was at that workshop I decided I'd be an imago therapist one day, because I learned so much about myself and what I was bringing and not bringing to relationship. It was transformational that weekend.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly, and as therapists, we tend to think about what's wrong with everybody else, including our partner, and our own baggage is like a blind spot, because we're working so hard to be better and be good and blah, blah, blah, but so we don't know, like what we're bringing in. So it is such a gift to have somebody really like again, like that horoscope, like give you the positive feedback but also give you some other information to help you discover that other part that's like oh, these are my growth edges.
Speaker 1:And what you also just said that feels also important is that when I finished my clinical training, I was keenly aware and I'm not saying that I did it perfectly, because it's taken and it continues to grow with me is what am I reactive to in my office? What am I? Yes, yeah, because if you're going to be neutral with a couple, it is impossible to do. If you haven't done your own work, impossible, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, that's why the advanced courses are so exciting. Once so, once you get through the certification, there's these advanced courses, so you really have these beautiful trainings available to you throughout your career and really learning. Yeah, what's getting in the way of me helping this client or this couple? Where's my reactivity coming from? And that's, yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and without you, I mean we, just we. Our practice is to do no harm, but I think many well-meaning people are just not aware of what they're not aware of, and so I love that about our work, that we are very conscious about being aware of our own stuff and not bringing that to our clients. Well, is there anything else that we haven't talked about that we really want to say about this? Clinical training that has been so valuable to me is really so about has been so valuable to me. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, just that I would start with a workshop and and then, and then, yeah, if it's interesting to you, then as soon as possible, get in a clinical training.
Speaker 2:So like I'm doing a workshop September 20th in Austin, prior to the clinical training which starts October 3rd, because I think the closer you do those two together, the training will just flow.
Speaker 2:Then you'll be like, okay, I just went through all these exercises, Now we're going to see it through the lens of of as a therapist, and then I would say that I would, if you love the workshop and you want to present the workshop, would say that I would. If you love the workshop and you want to present the workshop, I have people where I'll give them a package, a three-year program, and it's like you come in and everything's included to get you to become a workshop presenter. So you take the clinical training, you take the advanced courses, you take the workshop presenters training, because I think that that's very appealing, it's a great way to do something different than sitting in the office and you know, I get to travel to England to teach this workshop in a castle, like amazing right. So I mean, I think if people just want to say, hey, I want to do the whole thing. Sign me up for the whole three-year program. I'll take you soup to nuts till you are a very effective workshop presenter and a certified Imago therapist.
Speaker 1:And I would say that, and you would speak well to this, actually, michelle, is that taking the clinical training, the five advanced core courses that are required to become an advanced Imago therapist, before you take the workshop presenters training? I would say, by the time I finished the workshop presenters training I felt like I it's a very breath of knowledge is just unbelievable. And who I was from start to finish. And where do you get that in three years?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, and not only that, coco. I don't know what your experience was, but I feel like all of the trainings do. They really are doing the work of self as therapist person, of the therapist. So it's really working with me and my strengths and my challenges and my stories and my reactivity and like really working with me to become the best clinician, the best partner, the best friend I can be and then becoming the best presenter that I can be. So it really developed me as a presenter. It's just it's. It's such a brilliantly crafted clinical program and professional home.
Speaker 1:I love the name professional home because it really is. It is. It is that for me, yeah, when I'm with my people, I feel so at home and so safe to ask the questions or share the projections or the stuff what do I not know. And it's such a safe place to ask that question and I am grateful, and I'm grateful for your time today to to talk about this with you. I think it's fun that we're both going to be teaching the same weekend and I know let's call in.
Speaker 2:Let's call in and have our classes say hi to each other.
Speaker 1:That would be great great, I would love that. So if you want to know more about Michelle's training, where do they go, michelle? And I'll put this on MichelleBowlescom MichelleBowlescom. Her training is in Austin, texas, and I can promise you it will be amazing.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:My training will. You can find me at Colleen at HiltonHeadIslandCounselingcom and I'm happy to answer any questions and my training will be amazing. I had some. The rekindle this past weekend was fun because there were about eight therapists that are not Imago therapists that volunteered to just come support, that are not imago therapists that volunteered to just come support. So when the couples were practicing dialogue that they could assist and I think all of them want to sign up for the training.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I bet it's so inspiring.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was just. It was so exciting when, with the weekend ended, and how many said, wow, this is so different and I've done this training and I've done that training, but now I see what this is. It was so helpful. So that was really exciting to to meet newer therapists that are ready to start the journey and that's, that's the magic, and to train with you.
Speaker 2:I mean, they are so lucky, they're so lucky You're such a wise and safe and brave woman.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I told you what I thought about you in our last episode, which is courageous, brave. No, it was courageous, powerful and brilliant, and I can remember them so easily because it's all just true. So, michelle, thank you so much, thank you.
Speaker 2:This was lovely, so fun to spend time with you.
Speaker 1:So fun and let's share this with our community, because I think we really do need to spread the word of Imago, and I'm not exaggerating this when I think about the world we live in, the divisiveness that we have. We have an opportunity to help heal this world, and it may be idealistic and you shared that about. If you're not an idealistic person, then probably this training isn't for you. We're romantics. Yeah, we are romantics and we are really. Our heart is in the business of healing and and really showing up for people.
Speaker 2:so, um, yeah, share this with our community yeah, and I want to say to your listeners that if you sometimes we feel like I don't know what to do, what can I do to make a difference? I would just invite you to please write a review for Coco's podcast and share the podcast, because that is something a little that you can do to help get information to people to know that there is hope for having a better relationship, for feeling more confident in the work that we do. There's hope.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a lot of hope and we live in the hope, don't we? Yeah, thank you everyone for being with us today on the Blueprint. We've enjoyed having Michelle Bowles, and what an excellent educator you are, michelle and friend, so thank you for today. We're signing off on the Blueprint and remember that you are the architect of your life, so let's make the design matter. Have a great day.
