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The Relationship Blueprint: Unlock Your Power of Connection
Colleen is a student of Dr. Harville Hendrix and Dr. Helen LaKelly Hunt who created the Imago Theory and have brought this work to over 50 countries around the world. She is profoundly influenced by this belief shared by Dr. Harville Hendrix. He said, "We are born in relationship, wounded in relationship and healed in relationship."
What are you struggling with today? Colleen believes that almost any problem we have began with a broken or unhealed relationship. The anxiety or deep sadness we feel often began with unresolved issues in our relationships with our parents, partner, family or friends. When we have unmet needs we are programed to get those needs met. When we don't get what we need we protest by protecting ourselves. this often looks like defensive, critical, demanding behaviors. these behaviors are most often ineffective. As a result we may develop unhealthy relationship with food, sex, gambling our or a substance.
Colleen invites world renown relationship specialists from all over the world to help her guests explore their own relationships and see their problems through a relational lens. She will help us explore how to create intimacy to deepen our connections. Her listeners will gain insights to create a more joyful life.
Colleen is a Licensed Professional Counselor in the state of South Carolina, a certified, Advanced Imago Clinical therapist, a clinical instructor for the Imago International Trading Institute while maintaining her clinical practice in Hilton Head Island, South Carolina.
Thank you for joining Colleen today. Remember, don't let life happen to you. You can be the architect of your relationships. Join her next time on the Relationship Blueprint; Unlock Your Power of Connection.
Contact Colleen at colleen@hiltonheadislandcounseling.com for questions or to be a guest on the show!
The Relationship Blueprint: Unlock Your Power of Connection
Menopause and Relationships: Transformative Insights with Jesica Eames
This episode focuses on the often-overlooked topic of menopause, featuring Jessica Ames, who shares her personal journey and insights into how hormonal changes can affect women's lives and relationships. It discusses the importance of informed care, recognizing symptoms, and advocating for better health support for menopausal women.
• Jessica reflects on her own experiences with menopause
• The 2002 study on hormone replacement therapy and its implications
• Understanding the three stages of menopause
• Symptoms of menopause that are frequently misattributed
• The importance of recognizing hormonal shifts in women’s health
• Advocating for informed healthcare providers
• Nutrition and lifestyle changes to support wellbeing during menopause
• Resources and books for further education on menopause
• The collaborative nature of menopause awareness for both women and their partners
• Encouragement for couples to join the upcoming workshop to deepen their understanding of relationships during transitional life phases.
• Don't forget to check out Jessica and Brian’s couples workshop in February!
Thank you for joining me today on the Relationship Blueprint. Remember, don't let life happen to you. You can be the architect of your relationships. So join me next time on the Relationship Blueprint; Unlock Your Power of Connection.
Contact Colleen at colleen@hiltonheadislandcounseling.com for questions or to be a guest on the show!
Welcome back everybody. This is the Relationship Blueprint, where we unlock your power of connection. And today I have with me a very dear friend in Atlanta. Her name is Jessica Ames. I have a long introduction written here about Jessica. I learned some things that I didn't know about her. Jessica is also with Imago Georgia. Last week week we had Allison Dragony and those of you who've listened to that, it was a magnificent podcast about sharing the silent struggle of pregnancy, loss and grief.
Speaker 1:And so another colleague is Jessica and she's also, as I said, with Imago Georgia. She is an advanced clinical instructor. She is also on the faculty for Imago International Relationship and, more than that, she really has a specialty with all kinds of couples, helping them connect. And I'd also say that she has this beautiful way of talking about menopause and how that impacts relationships. Jessica was also a bachelor of arts from Vassar. She obtained her JD from Emory University, the School of Law, graduating at the top 5% of her class. She later went on to get a master's degree in social work from Georgia State and then she joined Imago Georgia and she was also the assistant dean of admission for Emory University something I didn't know about you and together with her wonderful partner, Brian.
Speaker 1:I know she has three gorgeous boys and they do Getting the Love. You Want workshops. They have one coming up that she'll be telling you about. What's most important for me personally to share about Jessica is just how amazing she is at her work Such an amazing instructor and therapist and I have had the opportunity to sit with Jessica and, as we're practicing our work together, really experience her as a therapist, and I can't tell you how gifted she really is. Thank you for being with us today.
Speaker 2:Okay, what a nice way to start that felt great.
Speaker 1:Well, is there anything I left out that you want to share about you before our listeners start hearing about our topic?
Speaker 2:I think you covered it. It's wonderful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, good, good, I'm glad there's so much to say about you. So I want to tell you, I invited Jessica here because I was at the Southeastern Conference for a MAGO therapist from North America and Jessica was a guest speaker and she talked to all of us about menopause and there were men in the room and there wasn't a person in the room who didn't gather afterwards and just say my God, I didn't know that was going on for my wife, or I see this couple I'm working with differently or I'm having these symptoms too. I didn't know I could do anything about it. So I really wanted you to come and talk about your journey with menopause and I want to thank you for being with us to share it's a vulnerable topic, so thank you for being here.
Speaker 2:Oh, you're welcome. Thank you for having me. I love this topic, okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a great topic. Tell us about your journey, Jessica. How did you come to this as a specialty?
Speaker 2:As a specialty. I mean, as with, I think, any passion, there's usually probably a personal interest or a personal development combined with, probably an intellectual connection and a professional one. It's you know, once you learn about it yourself and you start looking for it, you really will start to see it. So my journey was when I was around 46, 47. So I'm 54 now, so around 2018, I had some stress going on with kind of different things with the kids launching and parent care. But all of a sudden I just started having a lot of kind of unexplained symptoms and they were things like a lot more night waking, suddenly waking up in the night, but the main one for me, I mean kind of an irritability had set in which I associated with stress, and then I was also having a lot of heart palpitations. That again, I associated with stress and parent care and all of those things. So I mean, I remember driving home from the office one night and I was kind of pulling out and I was having a moment with kind of this heart palpitations, thinking, is this a cardiac event? Like, do I need to be going to Emory? And it just so happened I was very close to my annual checkup and so when my GYN OBGYN, you know, just asked what was happening, I was like, well, I think I'm having a really big bout of insomnia and anxiety and I don't really know what to do. And she was the one who looked at me and looked at my age and she said this sounds like perimenopause. So that really began.
Speaker 2:Now I will back up just to give you like a backdrop of all of this. Is that okay, to kind of give you the back? Absolutely yeah, I really want to hear. The backdrop is that there was a study that in 2002, it was a massive study by the National Institute of Health looking at hormone replacement therapy in perimenopausal or in really menopausal women, and millions of dollars was poured into this study. And in 2002, there was an abrupt ending of the study and they concluded it. Before they finished the study, they called a massive press conference and they announced that hormone replacement therapy causes so it either causes or increases our risk of breast cancer clotting and stroke, and up to that point. So this is 2002, 40% of women who were in the menopausal stage of life were receiving hormone replacement therapy for the symptoms. 2002, with this press conference, it plummeted to basically nothing right it just stopped and then starting within a decade of that up until currently now.
Speaker 2:So continued research and looking at it over the course of those years is almost every conclusion in the Women's Health Initiative has been reversed.
Speaker 2:It was reversed and that what we're seeing now is a kind of cascade of research that are saying that hormone replacement therapy for perimenopausal women and up to the age of 60, and that's even starting to change has really long-term health benefits for women. So there's a massive change in the data and the science. The conclusions of the Women's Health Initiative, which really left, you know, a generation of women for 20 years without proper or adequate or I would just say good standard of care for menopause, went without, and so now there's this cohort of women, so it's the perimenopausal and menopausal women right now are the oldest millennials and all of Generation X and Gen X is born in 1965 to 1980, and then the older millennials, and so there's just a huge moment that's happening. So it's on the cover of Time Magazine, there are New York Times bestsellers, there's just a wave of science that's coming back, and so the care that women are receiving is really changing.
Speaker 1:So, jessica, this feels really very important to just highlight. So what you're saying is in 2002, when this study came out, really women just stopped, even though 40% were using HRT and probably effectively to manage these symptoms and actually gain some of these health benefits. But when the study was released and it was incorrect, for 20 years we've been just without. Women have suffered and thought what's my choice? I can have these symptoms or I can promote my breast getting cancer. I mean, it was a lose-lose situation, but this cascade of studies has really reversed that and now this group of women finally has an opportunity to get help. And I guess what I'm curious about because until we met with you this fall, I would say almost all of us in the room I don't want to speak for everyone, but it really we had no awareness that this was such a movement.
Speaker 2:Yes, it is. I mean, it really is, it has been. I think what I think about it is like, if you look at the women that are, you know, 20 years older than me. So you know a lot of our colleagues, you know they really had to navigate this transitional, I mean this massive transition in life with very little any kind of relief or support for the symptoms, and we're experiencing some longer term health consequences as a result of that. So I mean, in terms of one thing I want to do, coco is also kind of talk. We have to know what we're talking about. Like, I think it's really important to understand the stages, and there really are three stages to this part of our life. So I'm going to just walk you through those right, perfect, okay.
Speaker 2:So menopause is one day in our life. It is one day, and that is the one day in our life that we have gone for 12 months without a menstrual cycle, 12 months of no cycle. On that 365th day you are now that's menopause, and the average age in the United States for women is 51 and normal, right, so it's 45 to 55, right? So anybody you know. So it can be happening in any of that. So that's kind of what is menopause. The stage before that is called perimenopause, and that is where it's the beginning of the end of our ovulation, of the functioning of our ovaries. Our ovaries are now starting to atrophy. I mean, the organ is dying off, right, it's no longer functioning.
Speaker 2:That stage of life can begin or symptoms really can start 10 years before you actually have that one day of menopause, right? Wow, so if the average normal range of menopause is 45 to 55 and a woman is going to, some women will have 10 years of symptoms. You very well have a woman in her mid to late 30s in your office having symptoms that very well may be perimenopause. So the average age is, you know, really usually symptoms will last from anywhere from two to 10 years. I do think it's really interesting to look at now the data is starting to look at the differences across races. So BIPOC women are experiencing symptoms up to 54% longer than white women. Think about, kind of what we're now trying to start looking for. And then do you have perimenopause, you have menopause and then your postmenopausal and that's roughly a third of our life. Yeah, it's a very long, you know, period in our life.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes. I think what you're really highlighting too is I remember I had a hysterectomy around 2002, opting not to take HRT. Did you take your ovaries too? It was a full Everything, full hysterectomy, and I can tell you it was a major change in my life that no one prepared me for, no one talked about it before, nobody talked about it after. They said the endometriosis will be gone, you'll be pain-free. I thought, wonderful, no period, yay me. And what devastation there was around many areas of my life.
Speaker 1:So I do, really, when that's one of the reasons when you talked about this, even personally, I thought wow, wow. So this information is just so important. And when you think about what you're saying that 35-year-olds can be perimenopausal it's a big deal because it's teasing out. I mean, you're a therapist, you're a gifted therapist and you were having trouble teasing out. You know, gosh, you have parents you're taking care of, you've got kids that are leaving the nest, you have a job, and why wouldn't it just be anxiety? Why wouldn't it just be, you know, the heart palpitation? So I wonder how many other people are writing this off.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, I mean, and I think in that we're not only are we writing it off, but without good, without good providers, providers are writing it off, right, I mean, and so like, for example, some of the symptoms, like I love some of the physicians that are really at the forefront of it was my own experience and some and think about your experience. But when couples are in my office and they're within and there's somebody in there that could be in this stage, you know I start listening for things and you'll hear you know things like I don't feel like myself. I just I feel like I'm a different person. Or they will describe irritability, feeling on edge. Sometimes you'll feel some panic setting in. That hasn't been there before.
Speaker 2:One of my favorite quotes is, like women will say, at this stage they'll be like I'm worried, I have dementia, right, but word retrieval you'll start having. Sometimes you know the word's right there but you can't quite grab it. And people are waking up at night now a lot of sleep disturbances. There's a decline in libido. There can be kind of a low or really chronic level of fatigue. There's unexplained weight gain, especially in the belly right, I mean.
Speaker 2:I remember joking I had a group of girlfriends on a text and I was like apparently we have entered the stage where celery is causing massive belly weight gain, right, but you, suddenly there's weight gain in our stomach and a lot of times women will report saying you know, I went to my physician and said I just feel awful and what I keep hearing is there's nothing wrong with me, this is just kind of a natural progression in life, right? But once you start hearing those, then it's time to actually start asking how are your hormones, like, what's happening with your hormones? Or advocating that people have a conversation with an educated provider, a provider who either specializes in this or is supportive of this stage of life.
Speaker 1:So, Jessica, you're really saying that even in our world, our work, which we are not physicians, but in our offices, and couples are coming in and they're presenting with all kinds of things and maybe even for lack of, for a good example, maybe we've stopped having sex. That we really might not, we might be missing something really physiological that's going on versus emotional. And to really just start listening for that in our therapist offices and maybe with our friends, with our daughters, with our mothers, really just being more sensitive to not just hearing gosh, I'm up all night, I'm waking suddenly, but any of the things that you've already mentioned to really start honing in on those comments, because they may mean more and somebody may need help.
Speaker 2:Yes, and when you start listening for those kinds of commentary of that something is. I mean I was, it was kind of my example of you know, I could kind of tie it to situational things, but then it just wasn't making a lot of sense, like why all of a sudden I was having I mean, who knew that heart palpitations is a symptom of declining estrogen? I mean, nobody's talking to us about that and so, like the way I mean the way I educate people if they're in we're starting to have this conversation is it's a quick amount of education and then advocacy. I don't advocate for a particular way to have support. Do this, don't do that. I advocate for having. You're entitled to and you need informed, good care and then you make the decision right Of what's best for you and your life. But I do some quick educating and I love it when the couple is in the room, because what I'll say and I didn't know this, but I had no idea that we have as women, we have hormone receptors estrogen, progesterone and testosterone receptors in every major organ of our body, every single one. So when you go into menopause and our testosterone starts declining in our 30s but estrogen and progesterone really is in that more perimenopausal is when that starts to decline, right? So estrogen is declining, the receptors in our brain are struggling, our heart, our livers, our bones, our joints, and so, as these things are starting to decrease because our ovaries are not producing them and there's kind of a brain ovary connection in that, we start having symptoms, right, and hot flashes are the tip of the iceberg. That's what we typically talk about. It's like oh, are you having? I mean, and a lot of times the physicians will say are you having hot flashes? Are you having night sweats? Are you having? No, is your cycle regular? Yes, well then you're fine. Well, that's actually really inaccurate, right, because here are some of the other things that you know show up as this starts and everybody not everybody has everything. Some people have incredibly gentle experiences and some people have pretty intense ones, right. But insomnia and sleep disturbances show up. I made a little list because they were so fascinating to me Heart palpitations, which was my major one, which I had never had, but they're very disturbing, like when you can actually feel your heart. Yeah, there can be kind of cognitive mental health changes. Feel your heart. There can be kind of cognitive mental health changes. So, anxiety, irritability, some depression, brain fog, which doesn't really have a medical definition, but a lot of times it's just a little bit of fuzziness and word retrieval.
Speaker 2:You hear a lot, a lot of skeletal, muscle and joint pain. So all of a sudden you wake up in the morning and standing up and walking hurts a little bit. Your hips hurt joints. Frozen shoulder is a symptom of perimenopause itchy scalp, dry scalp, dry skin. So there's a lower libido sometimes.
Speaker 2:But also sometimes intercourse is painful, right, because all of the estrogen and all of the hormones are coming out of the lining and so it's just more fragile. We have muscle loss, we have bone density loss, which is why we're trying to scan for osteoporosis, utis and incontinence and then they just I mean there's hair loss, there's fatigue, there's tinnitus, there's vertigo, migraines I mean the list bleeding gums. I mean there's just this host of symptoms. Don't all have most, we don't have all of them, but a lot of goodness when you start going to bed, all of them's a lot. You know they come and go, but it's profound when you start talking to women about could be this, could be this, and how many women in my office are like I have a frozen shoulder. I'm like, yeah, I have ringing in my ears, I have migraines, like this could very well be menopause. This could be a hormonal response.
Speaker 1:And I'm imagining too that I wonder if people don't start. You know if I'm picturing someone having heart palpitations and chronic irritability. You know you start to and the doctor says well, your periods are on time, you're not having night sweats, you're fine. And you know you're not fine. You begin to think you're crazy or really something is really wrong. Or then you start taking medicines for each symptom. You know you're at the ear doctor, you're at this doctor for that, but you're really not seeing, maybe, this comprehensive picture that you're describing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I had one woman in my office that she sat down and she was on an antidepressant and she was on a beta blocker for heart palpitations and she was on a really high some sort of anti-inflammatory for joint pain, I mean. So here was a woman that had done just what you said and had gone through and was now on antidepressants and anti-inflammatories and cardiac medication and it was all menopause right, and so when that referral was made and she got really good care for her menopause, she didn't need any of those other medications.
Speaker 1:Wow, wow.
Speaker 2:So I mean, that's a lot of what is now kind of uncovering in that I think of like the desert of what happened for the generation of women that you know did not have access to any kind of menopausal care. And this is what happened is SSRIs and anti-inflammatories and beta blockers and all sorts of things came in to touch the symptom, but it wasn't the root cause.
Speaker 1:And that's a very, very big deal, because, whatever we're working on, we want the root cause, because we can just touch on tons of symptoms. Same thing in a marriage, right, right, exactly. You can fight about who was late for dinner, but that's not really what the problem is Exactly. We really want to get to the root. So were you able to find the answer for you?
Speaker 2:Yes, and I was really lucky. So like, if you take me as an example, I under the Women's Health Initiative, you know I would be a very classic person that was not a candidate for any kind of menopausal hormone therapy because my mother was diagnosed with breast cancer at 49. And so under that old kind of regime, it was that even if some women could possibly, I never could, and so this is kind of really where I lived. I lived under that umbrella because of my mother's health history. I was very lucky.
Speaker 2:I had a really educated, young still she's my primary, you know, menopausal care provider and she just was gentle with me. But she's like you know that data is not accurate data any longer In 2018, she's like it's not accurate data. You are a candidate, but I really hear you about your mom's history and she just kind of took it slow with me. And then I was very lucky to have one of my very best friends who's a physician and a psychiatrist and sheizes in, and she just gently nudged me to a brand new book that came out in 2018. It's just been re-released and it's 2024 edition called Estrogen Matters, and it's written by a women's health researcher and a medical oncologist and the book is, I'll show, I'll show it to you, okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, this one. Estrogen Matters. Estrogen Matters.
Speaker 2:And this really is. It was one of the first major books to come out to show that the data in the Women's Health Initiative was quite incorrect, and so I was pointed towards this book. I read it and listened to it and the the I mean I like the science, I mean I have got a lawyer brain. I like the data. It really matters to me. And so this book that was following it up with the studies was profound not at any more risk and that they're really long-term health consequences for me for taking, and most women, most women really good health consequences for us of taking some sort of hormone replacement. And so what we're seeing is women who start it and stay on it are starting to show a much better reduction in osteoporosis, so we're maintaining our bone density. We're seeing lower rates of coronary artery disease and I think you know heart disease women are. We are seven times more likely to die of coronary artery disease, seven times more likely than breast cancer. We all know about breast cancer and we get our mammograms, but most women don't have that kind of handle of the likelihood that it's going to be our heart and replacing our hormones and keeping our hormones in our heart is protective of our heart, right. That is really interesting. I mean it's fascinating the heart protection for it. It protects our insulin resistance, it protects our blood pressure. It protects our cholesterol, right. I mean cholesterol.
Speaker 2:Typically in menopause, you know, it goes up. Cholesterol just shoots up all of a sudden. Mine did All of a sudden. I've been rock solid and then it was like it's up by 20 points and nothing had changed. It was hormone related. So between that book and a good provider, I was really, and I had, and I involved my partner in this right Because of my history. I listened to several podcasts with these authors. I read the book. Brian listened to it, read the book. It was happening. Menopause happens to all of us. You know, you either are. It's either happening to you or it's happening to somebody you love. So it's happening to all of us. And so together we kind of made a good decision and then I got really good care and it was life-changing. It was life-changing care.
Speaker 1:Wow, I love that story. I really do, and I think it's so important when you talk about Brian being part of this journey, because I think it's like a lot of things in life that we as women suffer through things. We again tell ourselves stories about what is wrong with us or maybe feel shame about just people. I'll have people in my office who are not having sex, they've intercourse is painful and they tell themselves this is just the way it is, and then their partner, kind of like, doesn't get any say in that either, because they don't want to hurt their wife. So here they are, trying to navigate this but not talking about it. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean it has changed my practice, my own experience, but then learning at the level that I've learned and asking the questions, and I see it as empowerment. I mean I think it's really interesting. I read the other day it was really fascinating is that? I mean, once you start looking for this and really learning about it. It's a fascinating time because women today, right now, women who are in perimenopause or right at menopause, right which are the oldest millennials and Gen X I just wrote it down is that this is the single wealthiest and most educated generation of women throughout time.
Speaker 2:This cohort, and it is this cohort that is also now just kind of in a advocacy demand of we are not going to have the frailty and the struggle that our mothers and our grandmothers have, like this silence and suffering and then the frailty, you know, I mean the broken hips and the cardiac disease, and there's evidence now that's starting to accumulate about how protective it is for dementia, right, women have dementia at far higher rates than men and they're really starting to look at what is the connection to estrogen deprivation as a result of that. And so I think, when the couple really addresses it together too and we raise our children and we've got 25 and 27-year-olds, boys and young men and women and my children around it. These books are all over the house and jokes about somebody. Can somebody go pick up my patches? Somebody pick up my ass patches, normalize it and it becomes a part of life. It's a long time of a woman's life. I mean, it's a third of our life.
Speaker 1:And so it's great that you have your boys doing that. If you think about even Brian, brian's what? Maybe 50? Is Brian 50? He's 55. Okay, so I'm imagining Brian with his mother if he's 20, 25 years old, I am pretty darn sure his mother never said the word menopause out loud. So how would any of our husbands have ever have any kind of sensitivity to it? And then also, I'm sure you hear men sort of take it personally, like that you know she doesn't want to have sex with me anymore or she's so irritable all the time with me. You know people do take these things personally. When your partner is going through something, whether it's depression, addiction, menopause, it does. You're right, it affects everybody. Yeah, yeah. So this whole idea that your problem, my problem, I call BS.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Yeah, I mean I really do. Is that it happens to all of us? I mean it is a if you think about, a hundred percent of women will have this experience, a hundred percent.
Speaker 1:That's a big number.
Speaker 2:That's a big number. It's a big number 100%.
Speaker 1:That's a big number. That's a big number. It's a big number. It's going to happen to all of us. I love that. It has really helped you so much that it's really changed your life medically, emotionally, physically and, it sounds like, intellectually, because you've really embraced this as part of your practice. I really do.
Speaker 2:I really I see it as I see it as a relational. It's not a relational issue, but it's a relational. It's part of the relational system and when, and it impacts it. And so when it's something that we normalize and we talk about and we even celebrate it and we advocate for it, and really I want to be really clear is that the advocacy is around informed, educated care, right? Not that everybody needs menopausal hormone therapy or everybody should be doing X, y or Z. It's more of that. Everybody is deserving of informed care and affordable care.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think that's really one of the exciting things is that, you know, we've got some stuff at the periphery where it can get really expensive, but for the most part, you know, in terms of nutritional recommendations and sleep recommendations and maybe some supplements, there's a lot of options for menopausal hormone therapy that's incredibly affordable. I mean that's I went down that route. So I am doing menopause, I'm doing hormone replacement therapy, or now they call it menopausal hormone therapy. I mean, you know, with decent insurance or just basic insurance, it's FDA approved, it's generic, it's not expensive.
Speaker 1:So do you do the bioidentical hormones, or is that a whole different?
Speaker 2:So that is okay. So that's a really funny thing. Bioidentical is like this name that's out there that actually really has no meaning. It's a very strange. It's kind of one of these little buzzwords and it's probably too complicated to get into, but essentially the FDA approved. So here's what I do. I have an estradiol patch. I have a little patch of estradiol that I changed twice a week and I have something called micronized progesterone. All of those are quote. Those are bioidentical. They are simply replacing in very tiny doses what my body was naturally producing.
Speaker 2:Bioidentical is kind of a buzzword and I mean, here's what I say is that I don't have an agenda about what people take. What I have somewhat of an agenda about is that if what you're taking has to be compounded, or it's very expensive or it's one of these kind of like formulated and it's just super expensive, or it's one of these kind of like formulated and it's just super expensive. Part of my response is that's absolutely fine and if it works for you, great. But it doesn't have to be that you don't have to pay that kind of money. You don't have to. So that's where I think that estrogen matters.
Speaker 2:There's another big new book out. This was the New York Times best seller which is called the New Menopause by Dr Mary Claire Haver. I have all my books. I love all these books. There's another physician, dr Kelly Kasperson. She wrote you Are Not Broken. This is about women's sexuality At this stage of life. Her podcast is amazing. Okay, this woman's podcast is fantastic. She brings on guests all the time from all over about everything. Dr Lisa Moscone she did the Menopause Brain. It's a beautiful book looking at kind of what's happening to women's brains, and so this is my.
Speaker 2:What I want is I just want people to know everything that's out there for them and then make the choice that is best for them, and it doesn't have to be this super, super expensive process.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you talked about this generation being generation X being the wealthiest and most educated and yet history. And yet how few of us I'm not in that group, but I mean how few of that population really knew about these changes. And I'm glad to hear that there are more and more books coming out, because that's always helpful. Once there's advertising is everything right. Sadly, yeah, I know.
Speaker 2:But you know and like, there's a and again, I wish everybody had it, but there's a documentary that's out right now called the M Factor and I stream it on PBS. It's 55 minutes long. All of these players, every book I just showed you, they're all in this 55 minute documentary. That is just amazing. No, it's absolutely amazing, absolutely amazing. And I think I mean the exciting part is that I want and I want my clients, I want you, I want our children. To the extent that you know the generation right above us can. I want people to be able to really thrive and have longevity. You know we are. We are walking and taking stairs and working, if we want to work, and doing all the things well into our 80s and we are avoiding broken hips and cardiac disease. And I think that I really do believe. I think that this our generation in particular, we have a chance to have a much healthier older age than our mothers and our grandmothers and we need to go for that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you talked about nutrition. Is there anything that you want to say about that before we?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think for nutrition pieces the big. There's a lot of funny stuff right now around menopause and perimenopause, but the biggest things I think nutrition wise is that protein and fiber are the two. Like, if a woman is going to do anything around nutrition, I don't advocate for any, except that you probably need more protein than you're getting and almost every woman needs more fiber than she's getting. 35 grams of fiber is kind of 25 to 35 grams of fiber a day. That's a lot of fiber and so but those two things are helping tremendously with bone and muscle and in bone strength kind of digestion and so yeah, and digestion.
Speaker 1:I mean you're pointing out another issue that I think changes as people age oh it's huge, and that is directly related to menopause.
Speaker 2:I mean UTIs go up and digestion changes and so yeah, and I think all of these books have done a nice job about how to add in some support without having to. You know, I mean in some of these people they did make supplements and they sell supplements and I don't buy any of that, but I do look at the research and I figure out, you know, there's simple, very cost effective ways to improve nutrition that just supports this time of life.
Speaker 1:You know I didn't talk to you about this in 2018, you know, when you were really having trouble, right, but what's so touching to me today is seeing your excitement. Like very few people, I think, that I know personally, have ever talked about menopause with such joy and enthusiasm. But what you're telling us is so important because it's about what you said you're trying to empower people, and that's really what the point of the podcast really is to empower, to get our power back. If we've given it away in any shape or form, how do we get that back? How do we have the life that we are meant to live? And if you're not physically well and that would be having symptoms of menopause that are untreated then how can you really live your best life? It's pretty bad when you're fatigued and you're not sleeping and you have hot flashes and everybody's annoying you. I mean, you can try as hard as you want, but you're not going to just overcome that one, right you are not, and I mean good care creates such relief.
Speaker 2:I mean it really, it really can be life-changing.
Speaker 1:Jessica, is there anything that we haven't talked about about this topic that you really want us to hear before we close today?
Speaker 2:I think we've kind of, I think we've gotten to it. I was trying to think about resources. There was something. I was trying to think about resources, there was something. Oh, I did have one thing.
Speaker 2:So here's what I tell women that are looking into this is I think it's really important to access some good education, right, and I've just given you, I've showed you, some books. I think the M factor is wonderful, I will be honest is I do recommend that my clients not go into their physician's office and say so. I've been on Instagram and they're telling me, or this influencer, but what I do say is you know, there is very good care out there, but it is another place where women often have to advocate for themselves to get to it, and to that extent, there are really good resources. There's the menopause society right, it's just it, and to that extent, there are really good resources. There's the Menopause Society right, it's just it.
Speaker 2:And there's a big website of the Menopause Society Dr Mary Claire Haver, who wrote the new menopause. Her website has a whole free guideline, like a guidebook that you can download, that just gives you basic information, questions to ask your physician, and she also, on her website, has access to providers that specialize in this care right, they're certified menopause specialists and you can locate them all over the country. And so what I say to women is you know, go and start with your providers, and if you hear you can't have any access, you know you can't take menopause, hormone replacement or hormone therapy, because it causes breast cancer. It increases your risk of clotting and stroke. I just say to women go find another provider, because you are sitting in front of somebody that is not current on the data and so sometimes it takes a little bit to get good care, but it's really worth trying.
Speaker 1:And I hear you, jessica, with the idea that after someone listens to this podcast, they may get brave enough. Okay, I'm going to make my appointment with my physician. Then you go into the physician's office and then you get dismissed. Yes, and what you're telling us is you know, really, sometimes even the best GPs don't have access. Maybe they just haven't read the research, maybe they're not. It's hard to be up to date with everything that is going on, and so you really want to find a provider that is going to listen to you and then, and then act upon that Exactly, and we have now resources where you can go find people that are saying I work in this area.
Speaker 2:Right, and to be fair to the physicians I mean even the most current ones, like Dr Haber quotes is that she's a board certified OBGYN. She had a total of like eight days or eight to 12 hours total of menopause training as an OBGYN, right, it's just once the Women's Health Initiative came out, there was nothing to do, Nobody taught anybody about anything. So it's not that providers are being negligent. It's that a lot of times it's that they weren't trained, they weren't you know, they don't have the most up-to-date research, and so this is where we really I think what's happening kind of as a momentum, it's making it easier for women to find access to providers that are up-to-date is.
Speaker 1:I mean, I watched, after I listened to your talk when we were in Atlanta, I did watch the M factor, the 55 minute. I loved it. I really loved it. I thought it was very comprehensive and people can hear these names. The website that you just talked about. Is that Marianne Claver? Is that how you say her? Dr?
Speaker 2:Mary Claire Haver, but the book is called the New Menopause.
Speaker 1:It's the New York Mary Claire Haver, h-a-v-e-r. Yeah, because they wanted to go to that website. It sounds like there's lots of resources there, really great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's got a whole guidebook that you can download for free the podcast person.
Speaker 1:Will you say that? Yeah, dr Kelly Kasperson, you are not broken, and that's Kasperson with a K, with a C. Oh, with a C, okay.
Speaker 2:She's a board certified urologist and also specializes in hormones, so she's really fascinating. And then it's Dr Blooming and Dr Tavares that wrote Estrogen Matters and so that's really, and that's the 2024 updated edition. I mean, they're just, they're all gold standard, I think, books and physicians.
Speaker 1:If you're listening and you're driving in your car, don't worry about this, it's all in the notes. So if you're driving along and you want to go back and look up any of these names, I just wanted to be clear before we left, jessica, about those resources, because that education piece just seems so important to reassure people too. Is this something that I want to look into for myself, and is it worth the risk for me? And really only a medical professional can tell you that.
Speaker 2:Exactly, exactly, it's just. I want everybody to have the information so that they can make the best decision for themselves, and that's all that matters that you're making the best decision that works for you.
Speaker 1:And I'm so grateful that you were able to share your story and your research with us, because that is really how it all works, isn't it? One person goes down a road, and when they're willing to share their experience and their strength and hope with others, we really can help each other get through these really difficult times, especially since 100% of us are going through it 100% of women are going to have this experience, and if you're a man who knows a woman, you're going to be going through it too.
Speaker 2:That's what I say. I always was like. It happens to all of us, Right? Thank you so much, Jessica. Thanks for having me, Coco. I think it's amazing what you're doing.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm enjoying this very, very much and I get to speak to people like you every week and learn new things, and that's really just the joy of a podcast, honestly, it's so much fun. Just the joy of a podcast, honestly, it's so much fun. So, thank you listeners for being with Jessica and myself today. Jessica does have wait a second. You have a couples workshop coming up that people may want to know about.
Speaker 2:Yes, brian and I have our couples workshop February 1st, 22nd and 23rd and it's online, it's a virtual experience. It's live and virtual with us right here and you can go to imagogeorgiacom for information and registration and signups. We'd love to have you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the online is a little shorter than the whole weekend. Can you tell us a little bit about those hours?
Speaker 2:Sure, Our online. We meet Eastern Standard Time. So Friday, the 21st, from 6 to 8 pm, and then Saturday and Sunday, the 22nd and 23rd, we do 10 to 1 Eastern.
Speaker 1:So that's so manageable. It's so nice. It's so manageable because one of the things that I know couples struggle with is a whole weekend. Kevin and I are doing a workshop in Florida on. It's Claremont Florida, which is right outside of Orlando, but ours is the whole weekend. It's the Friday night 6.30 to 8.30, Saturday 10 to 6, and Monday 1 to 6. And that's childcare.
Speaker 1:I mean, I'm not trying to not advertise my workshop, I'm just saying that really, when you think about timing, what Jessica and Brian are offering is such a small amount of time to invest in your relationship and it's so powerful and life-changing. If you spent a week, you wouldn't be wasting your money because it's powerful. However, I know that people are limited with their time. Please look up Amago, Georgia and find out more about what Jessica and Brian are offering. Come join us. Yes, it's a wonderful experience to be with both of them. They're such an amazing couple and share their experience as a real couple raising three boys and being married 29 years. Wow, I didn't know you'd been married that long. I know we were. Congratulations you were babies.
Speaker 2:We were babies, yeah.
Speaker 1:You were babies.
Speaker 2:Well, Coco, thank you so much for this. It's been a joy.
Speaker 1:Well, we'll have to do it again. We'll be doing some other fun projects together again. We'll definitely do it again. We'll be doing some other fun projects together again.
Speaker 2:We'll definitely do it again. We'll be teaching together next month.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm excited about that too.
Speaker 2:Why don't you talk about that?
Speaker 1:Well, for any of you who are therapists and are interested in doing some advanced training, sophie Slade, who you heard on episode one about sex and intimacy for committed couples, she and Jessica will be teaching and I'm coming down to assist in Atlanta and that is March 7th, 8th and 9th. Yeah, so that's also on the Imago Georgia website it is, and the Imago Relationships North America website that you can sign up for that course, so we'd love to see you there. Thank you, listeners, for being with us today for the Relationship Blueprint Unlocking your Power of Connection. We are here to help you. If you enjoy this podcast, or that you know someone who may enjoy it, they may need to hear it. Please share it, please comment, and that's really how we'll be able to promote this show and have more listeners. So we are really glad you're with us. Thanks again.
