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The Relationship Blueprint: Unlock Your Power of Connection
Colleen is a student of Dr. Harville Hendrix and Dr. Helen LaKelly Hunt who created the Imago Theory and have brought this work to over 50 countries around the world. She is profoundly influenced by this belief shared by Dr. Harville Hendrix. He said, "We are born in relationship, wounded in relationship and healed in relationship."
What are you struggling with today? Colleen believes that almost any problem we have began with a broken or unhealed relationship. The anxiety or deep sadness we feel often began with unresolved issues in our relationships with our parents, partner, family or friends. When we have unmet needs we are programed to get those needs met. When we don't get what we need we protest by protecting ourselves. this often looks like defensive, critical, demanding behaviors. these behaviors are most often ineffective. As a result we may develop unhealthy relationship with food, sex, gambling our or a substance.
Colleen invites world renown relationship specialists from all over the world to help her guests explore their own relationships and see their problems through a relational lens. She will help us explore how to create intimacy to deepen our connections. Her listeners will gain insights to create a more joyful life.
Colleen is a Licensed Professional Counselor in the state of South Carolina, a certified, Advanced Imago Clinical therapist, a clinical instructor for the Imago International Trading Institute while maintaining her clinical practice in Hilton Head Island, South Carolina.
Thank you for joining Colleen today. Remember, don't let life happen to you. You can be the architect of your relationships. Join her next time on the Relationship Blueprint; Unlock Your Power of Connection.
Contact Colleen at colleen@hiltonheadislandcounseling.com for questions or to be a guest on the show!
The Relationship Blueprint: Unlock Your Power of Connection
Love, Power, and the Contracts Between Us with Wendy Patterson and Bob Patterson
What if the recurring conflicts in your relationship aren't about incompatibility but instead signal that your unspoken agreements need updating? Bob and Wendy Patterson, married for 44 years and pioneers in relationship therapy, introduce the revolutionary concept of relational contracts that could transform how you connect with your partner.
Drawing from their personal journey through power struggles and miscommunications, the Pattersons reveal how unconscious agreements form naturally during the romantic phase but often become problematic as partners grow and change. Wendy candidly shares how her oldest-child tendency to direct her husband collided with Bob's youngest-child resistance to being told what to do—a dynamic that worked until it didn't. The turning point came when Bob expressed feeling loved but not respected, prompting them to examine their implicit contract.
These relationships experts explain how conflict signals growth trying to happen rather than evidence the relationship should end. "What couples heading toward divorce are often really saying is 'I've got to end the contract we've had,'" Wendy notes. This perspective shifts relationship difficulties from personal failings to opportunities for creating new, more conscious agreements.
The conversation delves into how birth order, communication styles, and decision-making approaches influence our unspoken contracts. Bob demonstrates this brilliantly with the example of giving Wendy "permission" to alert him to road hazards while driving—a simple renegotiation that eased tensions they'd experienced for years. They introduce their "CPR for couples" framework (Compassion, Power, Respect) as foundational elements for healthy relationship agreements.
Whether you're experiencing recurring arguments about household chores, parenting approaches, or decision-making styles, this episode provides practical tools for identifying expired contracts and creating new ones together. Listen now to discover how making your implicit agreements explicit could revitalize your connection and help you grow together rather than apart.
Thank you for joining me today on the Relationship Blueprint. Remember, don't let life happen to you. You can be the architect of your relationships. So join me next time on the Relationship Blueprint; Unlock Your Power of Connection.
Contact Colleen at colleen@hiltonheadislandcounseling.com for questions or to be a guest on the show!
Hello everybody and welcome back to the Relationship Blueprint. Unlock your Power of Connection. And today I have with me two people that have transformed my life Wendy Patterson and Bob Patterson and you've heard me well. Actually episode two was with Wendy. If you have not listened to episode two from season one, you're going to want to go back to that perhaps. Maybe after you listen to this episode.
Speaker 1:And relational contracts are really one of their many specialties and something really new in the world and important to think about. And Bob Patterson he is the Berkman consultant and therapist, a MAGO therapist. But one of the things you've heard me say when I interviewed Brian Ames last week was how important it was when I received my Berkman from Bob and how I cried. Really. It helped me really see in black and white why I was unhappy in the job that I had prior to becoming an Imago therapist. I wept because it all made sense to me that my creativity didn't allow me to really function well in a system and it explained a lot about why I fought to change the system so much and bring yoga programs and mindfulness and things that maybe people weren't ready for at that time. So I'm always gonna be grateful for that opportunity, and it's great for couples, because Kevin and I had an old horror story around him wanting to take a risk, have another office in Charleston, or he'd have a great idea and I would be the first person to shoot it down.
Speaker 1:What we realized in the Berkman is that I scored in the first percentile in risk-taking and Kevin scored in the ninth percentile. So when we could see, wow, this is just like who we are, it doesn't have anything to do with me not trusting Kevin and it doesn't have anything to do with him not being sensitive to my fears, but now we had a language to talk about it. So between the two of you it has been life-changing, and so I'm so excited to hear more from both of you today about relational contracts. Welcome, bob and Wendy. Thank you.
Speaker 3:So shall I just set the stage a little bit, that would be great.
Speaker 3:Well, we've become loud advocates for this concept of the importance of, in relationship, making good contracts, and you'll hear us talk about that. We think everyone has implicit contracts all the time and we think when people get together in committed relationships they're making a commitment to be in the relationship, so they're committing themselves, they're also making a contract with this other person and over time we think those contracts shift and change. And I came out of a training world where transactional analysis and gestalt therapy were some of the earliest grounding pieces. And I'm a primarily family systems person and what I know there is that it becomes really important that you're very thoughtful about what you're trying to accomplish at any moment in time. And Bob came out of the business world where he was always about that work. I really think we figured it out because we got in so much trouble as a couple and it had a lot to do with our implicit agreements, wendy can you help our listeners Because implicit agreements is a familiar term in our world, but I don't know it's a familiar term in everyone's world.
Speaker 1:Can you give an example?
Speaker 3:Probably the simplest one would be around that I think we had some implicit agreements and contracts in which my oldest child mentality was acceptable and his youngest child mentality was acceptable. How did that play out? I got to tell him what he should do and he would kind of roll his eyes, but he would frequently do what I suggested until he got sick of it. And then he would say you're not the boss of me. And then I would say I'm not trying to be the boss, I'm trying to help you, because our contract was that he should work up and I should work down.
Speaker 3:When we figured it out was a moment when Bob came to me and said you know, I think that you love me and care about me and cherish me. But you said, bob, I don't think you respect me. And I thought I don't even have any idea what he's talking about, because I have four younger brothers and so I adored them. But my dad died when I was a kid so I didn't have any men to respect particularly so it just wasn't a theme. And then he comes along and says our marriage needs that to happen. And we started to fool around with that notion and came to that part of, one of the greatest things you can do to communicate respect is make a conscious contract, make a conscious agreement about what's happening or going to happen or what you want to see happen, because expectations, assumptions, all those things that get us in so much trouble in relationships are all based on implicit agreements and they work for a while, but then they don't, if you're lucky, because you grow and you change.
Speaker 3:So we started working on well, what kind of contract do we have and what kind of contract do we want to have? And then we started teaching it what's your deal right now, what are the assumptions and what do you have reason to believe that assumption would work? And what's a different story you could tell? And for me, that theme song of am I operating out of respect or not has been a very dominant feature for me, because it's not easy for me to operate out of respect. It's not something I learned and grew up with, so I now get that. Respect is. I don't tell you what to do unless you're inviting, and I don't get to make things happen the way I want them to happen without actually being synergistic with you. And if I do, I'm going to get in trouble.
Speaker 1:So, wendy, let me just pause a minute here, because you said so many important things, and I'm thinking about the Imago languaging and the whole idea of intention and impact. Right, and that's what you're saying that you were a little unconscious before you got aware of how much your birth order was playing a role in all this. And I'm wondering did you did this show up when you first got married or did it take a little time? Little time, yeah.
Speaker 3:I think it's where the power struggle is so valuable. Romantic love, you know we're just enjoying. And then early challenge of starting babies and homes. You know it's like let's just get things done. Yeah, yeah, I don't know that before.
Speaker 1:It's like I'm picturing you two as this young couple and I'm picturing Wendy initially being like let's go to Wyoming, I already bought the tickets. And Bob's like, yeah, what a great adventure. And then all of a sudden Wendy's saying you know, I want to go to Pauley's Island.
Speaker 3:And Bob's like we're going to Pauley's Island. Oh, we're going.
Speaker 1:Like you're going definitely with me and you're going to enjoy it, and then Bob's, like I had other plans. So it becomes the core scene right In the core scene Shocking, shocking. But I mean, don't we all have the core scene right? We don't know it because no one's ever really taught us about that. Yeah.
Speaker 3:We think that all conflict is growth trying to happen right.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:We think that when you get into a power struggle it's because you've actually outgrowing a pattern. I love that. And if you don't know what the pattern is, how do you understand that you're outgrowing it? And that we think a lot of couples heading toward divorce saying I've got to end my relationship with you. What they really want to be saying is I've got to end the contract we've had.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And let that go so we can move into a different scenario. And we haven't seen couples do that and we need to. Yeah, also true in families, I think. As you're raising, for example, bless their hearts teenagers. The contract you had as a parent with your little kids won't fly when you're parenting a teenager.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and then they don't fly when the teenagers become adults, right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so Bob's whole experience around business to be able to say, well, you know, that's the way good business works. And we actually had a keynote at one of our conferences once who took the stance that we shouldn't even have marriage, we should form corporations. That would require the consciousness, and where we got so invested in intention and impact needing to match was through the contracting. And then, lo and behold, it turns out it's also brain integration that works both ways.
Speaker 1:So, Bob, you were going to help us understand the foundational principles of this relationship.
Speaker 2:Okay, so we begin with.
Speaker 3:You loved what I said, didn't you honey?
Speaker 2:Except for the part about being told what to do. I always react to that. Well, part of that is there were some relationships I had growing up that were challenging, and so what Wendy is saying about us replicating those same patterns, I think really holds true. That it doesn't. You know, I can go back to my family of origin and it takes maybe 30 seconds for me to be right back in the midst of that power struggle, and that has been my theme song. You know you're not the boss of me. You know you don't get to order me around or tell me what, or maybe you do, but I'm not going to do what you want.
Speaker 1:Hey, bob, isn't that so interesting for our listeners to think about? So you have this theme song that was, you know, came from your experience growing up. And then Wendy has hers, which is why, would I even ask you? Like I've had four little brothers. They don't know what they're doing and I don't really have this dad, so I kind of have to run the show. So you found each other, not by accident, right, so that these two things could show up together and you're off to the races.
Speaker 2:And I liked what you had said before, coco, about in the romantic love stage it doesn't matter a lot because nature has its own agenda in that contracting. So that contracting we don't even have to work on very much because it can just happen. But, as we all know, is that commitment deepens, the power struggle intensifies. So that's why, when you buy a home together or you get married or you have a dog or all the other things that you do, that kind of say I'm in this relationship at a different level, then we could do a better job of teaching couples that this is what's next, this is what's going to happen. The frustrations are going to occur because, like Wendy said, that is growth trying to happen and it's just we don't understand much about that. So it's easy to think that the problem is the other person.
Speaker 3:Starting with familiarity, and the familiarity kind of lulled us into implicit agreements. And then, if we're strong enough and it's good enough, the familiarity begins to say, yeah, but we are different and maybe our differences deserve a seat at the table.
Speaker 2:OK, well, so we started off thinking that the building these relationships that we're talking about is really a foundation of all human accomplishment. Talking about is really a foundation of all human accomplishment. We can't get much cultural, technological, medical, transportation, science, arts, society All of that is a result of us being in relationship with other human beings and animals that our capacity to build and maintain these relationships creates really, this synergy of civilization. And for better or worse that we are in these relationships and building these relationships all the time, and this is hardwired into us is a part of all.
Speaker 2:We believe, all human beings, that we have this relational impulse and so in families and groups, businesses, we form these emotional attachments to someone or something, because that's what human beings do we become attached. So if it's not a human being, then it could be money you can develop an attachment for that. Or power, philanthropy develop an attachment for that. Or power, philanthropy, politics, alcohol and drugs, sex, apple pie, sports this is part of who we are is to move through the world and form these attachments, and these can be extremely positive and sometimes problematic, so that, while this is a necessary part of human development, the behavioral patterns that are associated with the attachment can be stressful on the relationships and that's why we have, you know, people who attach in certain ways. We talk about the pursuer and the distancer getting together in a relationship and playing that pattern out, Can you?
Speaker 1:help us understand that, what you mean by the pursuer and the distancer. What does that look like in our real marriage?
Speaker 2:When stress shows up right, because we're moving out of romantic love and into the next stage, when the stress shows up. We've adapted to different behavioral patterns to deal with that stress. Some of us will move away from the stress, stress. Some of us will move away from the stress right. Some of us will move into the stress. Some of us will be very action-oriented toward a stressful situation and some of us are just going to move away, and sometimes with each other that I will. You'll have the one that is more talkative, that puts issues on the table. We need to talk. Anybody ever heard that? We need to talk.
Speaker 1:Well, nobody feels good when they hear that we need to sit down and have a conversation. And you're like what did I do so?
Speaker 2:that's. You know that. And so there's that chasing quality in some of us, or that pursuing quality, and then there's that more independent or distancing quality that some of us have and that plays out in pretty much all relationships. When you begin to look for it, you have the very social one with the more introverted one and that kind of thing that happens. That just seems to, I don't know, the natural attraction.
Speaker 1:What I've noticed too, and I think it's really important to mention to our listeners, is that you know, sometimes the person that makes the appointment is this pursuer. Right, we got to talk about this, we're going to go see a therapist, and we got to blah, blah, blah. And then the other person comes in and they are the draggy. They don't know if they want to be there, right, they're like why are we doing this? And then I think that what I've noticed is that the draggy, or the distancer, is also, in their own way, trying to protect the relationship, but it doesn't look like it, right?
Speaker 1:They yeah, they're trying really hard by not saying anything, it's a way to not make it worse really hard by not saying anything.
Speaker 2:It's a way to not make it worse. That is very insightful, coco. Thank you for sharing that, because you know the best way to work with contracts is that you know everybody has a side that they're trying to represent. Sometimes it might look like it's not very functional, but it always has this functionality to it when the implicit contract or the non-conscious contract. A lot of times it happens around duties around the home. We just kind of drift into a job or something that has to get done and maybe we don't even talk about it. It's just. You know, I like to work in the garden. You know Wendy likes something else and we just kind of naturally drift into that and that's fine.
Speaker 2:It's when it's like the clothes begin to not fit anymore, and especially when the contracts are about how we treat each other.
Speaker 2:Yeah Right, one of the attachments that I notice about myself is my kind of attachment to rationality and evaluation, and I will begin to do that even if I'm not aware of it.
Speaker 2:And so Wendy, being a very inspirational and creative person, will come up with these ideas that one of them was, you know. She'll just say well, wouldn't it be nice if we put a garden bench here, and my approach to that is to evaluate the idea and whether it would fit or how would it get done or how would it be installed. All this stuff starts going off in my head and what I've learned is that it's best to kind of ratchet that back and go slower, because if I'm not paying attention to that pattern then I just become kind of a curmudgeon in Wendy's world about how, what won't work and what we have to be careful about. And so she's saying to me well, you're always worried about something in the future and it's not happened yet, and that kind of thing, so you can just get into this and then, if you don't deal with it, you actually begin to detach.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:We use this as an example of one thing.
Speaker 3:So one of the things that happened with this pattern he's talking about is I of course, get extraordinarily frustrated because I wanted him to say yes, I like it, no, I don't.
Speaker 3:Instead, he's logic and rational and this is going to be hard or this is going to be. And so one of the things that I've worked on shifting that I think we've come to agreement about is I say so, I want to pose an idea. I don't want to talk about implementing. I want to know if you like my idea or you don't like my idea. Just please, I like it, I don't like it, which has been extraordinarily hard sometimes for you because you're so busy analyzing the idea, but I can't tell if he liked it or not. Now I've learned if he's analyzing the idea, he likes it, enough to be exploring, but I couldn't tell that. I just wanted him to smile and say great, that'd be so interesting, wouldn't it? And we'd be done. He was already down the road.
Speaker 3:We used to talk about ready fire, aim that. Bob was ready. No, it was supposed to be what is it supposed to be? Ready aim fire. That's right. I was supposed to be Ready aim fire. That's right. I was supposed to be that, yeah, but but Bob is ready, fire aim. And I'm aim, aim, aim, right, and we have those misses and so it became. It's become. I now know if I, if I, throw out an idea and what I get is the logistics, I've missed a step and he has missed a step and we need to back it up and and tweak out what is it I'm really wanting right now and what is he really wanting right now? Because he interprets my great thoughts as he's got a responsibility, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm picturing you in the garden, about this bench right now and thinking about our listeners, who you know. Similar situation whether it's garden, or putting the children in this school or that school, and that that dynamic goes on. And then that detachment when it's not resolved and people don't feel understood, and then you know you go to bed mad or you don't even sleep in the same room or it. Then you start collecting all the other things that they've done that make you so unhappy and before you know it, our brains are wired for that right To think. You know we're just done and we're incompatible. This is just. I can't do this anymore. Right, it's so fast.
Speaker 2:And part of that is around our decision-making styles, of course.
Speaker 2:So most of us are attached in some way or another to money, and so we can make these implicit agreements about how we are going to manage money coming into and going out of the house, and so it just invites control manipulation if we're not pretty clear about what our deal is right and how we negotiate that deal, which you know is going to need to change at some point anyway. Like Wendy and I have this kind of unstated agreement that I will pay the credit card bills right, and so what happens is I'm paying the credit card bills and it's frustrating, or I'm having, you know, I'm just I don't like what I'm doing, or anxious about the money or whatever, and then I begin to express all that Right. Then that's one of the signs that we either need to renegotiate or have a new contract about addressing all these boxes that show up on our doorstep. And it's kind of how you know, to me it seems like we're just being covered up in box. And then, you know, my beloved they're all very important and necessary.
Speaker 1:I think every couple in the world can relate to you. Right now. Someone's ordering the boxes.
Speaker 2:And so you know, my beloved loves the gadgets, right? And some of the gadgets are useless in my opinion, and some of the gadgets are wonderful right. But just you know. But I've had to learn, you know I need to. Our contract has to include something, like you know, trying out the gadget for a while.
Speaker 3:Because you'll never know and, by the way, you've gotten so much kinder and gentler and that's an interesting gadget. Is this important? Is this valuable? At which point we define, learn.
Speaker 2:That's an interesting gadget, is this important, is this valuable? At which point we define, yeah, so these attachments to either children or money or something like that you know it's great just every now, and then just say, well, how are we doing around this? Because we begin we don't do that, we begin to function dysfunctionally, like, if you know, I may just stop paying the credit card, right or something like that, without talking about it, or I start thrashing about complaining, which you know it just doesn't do any good.
Speaker 3:Right, it's back to what you said about decision-making differences. Talk some more about that.
Speaker 2:Some of us become attached to kind of a well, I'll deal with it if it shows up kind of mentality, and others of us want to prepare for every eventuality.
Speaker 3:That's a good example.
Speaker 2:But if you could make a deal about it and say, okay, so my job is to look at the potential pitfalls, I take that that's my job and the other can go cool, you're really good at that, and my job will be to just carry the energy of we'll deal with it when you know at least this totally happens. So then you know you might compromise about making a broad plan for the future, but you don't drill into the details of it until it actually happens. So it's just. You know, it's no big secret, it's just being able to every once in a while stop and look right. Just not try to make it perfect, but just to look at what our agreements are Like. We have agreement that I drive the car most of the time right, and it has worked for both of us, because I'm a lot more relaxed when I'm driving and Wendy's a lot more relaxed when I'm driving. But every once in a while it's good to talk about it and shift some things up, change some things so that Wendy drives more.
Speaker 2:And it just kind of reminds us that the implicit contract is not bad contract, as long as at some points it's examined.
Speaker 3:It's reexamined. A wonderful example of where this all because it changes over time. A couple of years ago he said to me it is really okay with me for you to tell me what the street signs are and that the cars are coming, somebody's merging. I give you full permission to do that from now forward, to do that from now forward. And it was like it was a very different contract because, of course, all of my be careful lookouts, did you see, didn't go over. Well, I can only imagine. I know so he. But when he did that, it was like he was aware of my anxiety and he was giving me permission to speak and he was also saying I, I really accept that there may be things you see, I don't see, and if you see the same thing I see and bring it up, it'll be okay. It was a different level of agreement between us. That eased the way even more, and we think that's what consciousness looks like. How are we?
Speaker 1:changing. I love this because I don't think that any couple escapes this. I don't even think when you're doing things with a friend you can escape this. Traveling with people right, it's, it's just part of human nature. But I I what I'm hearing about the driving the car thing is that really, for the most part it doesn't. It doesn't bring either of you stress. So sometimes when it's working, there's not the impulse or need to change it. However, you know you want to stretch and grow so you may move into more things like wow, so when do you do offer these things? And when you do it kind of annoys me. But now I can see that it actually is kind of helpful because we have four eyes looking at the road. But without that renegotiation of how you're going to do things, where it's verbalized, it could get really annoying being the driver. And by the time you get there you're kind of mad at your partner because you've felt controlled, right, and then Wendy doesn't feel safe because she saw something coming and she wasn't heard. So you're at the event, you're really not even talking when you get there because all because of a car.
Speaker 1:I know, I've been there, you know it brings up a story that Kevin and I we did a dance for a really long time.
Speaker 1:When we travel, kevin's more of the laid back, you know, unpacking and organizing and being really anal about things. And then we'd get to the airport and he turns into this person that like if the coffee spills it's all my fault, and I started to notice the patterns and I'm like we need a dialogue about it. And when we did, it just brings up so much anxiety for him that he's forgot something the planes late, all the millions of things that you can think. So now, when we're in the airport and he snaps at me which he normally doesn't, so it's kind of like it used to be like what, I didn't do anything wrong. Now I just will lean over and like hold his arm or something and ask him you know, what do you need? Because I see it as a I see it as a real need. You know, when I'm anxious, he he does reach in and help me most of the time, but my anxiety is a little more obvious, whereas his was really very situational.
Speaker 3:Well, there's another example, too, of taking a conflict or frustration and assuming it's friction and something's trying to happen. And instead of right wrong which of course we know there's never right wrong, they're both right I have to be able to say what's trying to happen.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And we're both trying to take care of our anxiety or we're both trying to. And if I know what's happening for him, you know, uh, but I can't if I don't have a little bit of curiosity about what's happening for him. And just because he stepped on my toe doesn't make it all about me and my toe. I got to be able say and let's work on how we're standing and where we are together, and that's a very it's like a growing up kind of experience of how do I want to be in the world, and it poses one of the big questions that we both.
Speaker 3:The book that I loved the most before I found Getting the Love you Want was the one question that would save your marriage, and the question was what's it like being married to me? You know, and all these iterations, and that reflection is not something you can easily do on your own, but you can take the feedback and say, well, is this working? What part of this is working? And every contract we think couples have started off as working, particularly the influence. It worked fine until it didn't.
Speaker 2:Where this gets really important is about our attachment to our values, boundaries, Because we you know, how you know, and having a non-conscious contract about your politics can? Be devastating, you know. That's why I think it's important to examine sometimes what's going on between us and really look at how are we going. Let's come to an agreement about how we handle this situation.
Speaker 1:How important is that right now, with family and the difference in our country, like to be able to have a contract. How will we treat each other when we disagree?
Speaker 2:Yes, and so that's a good one to talk about and come to some kind of deal or agreement about how we navigate through these minefields really that are about our identity, our values, what we love, what we think all that, Even if it's something we're going to agree that we won't put each other down about what we think or believe. One couple I was working with where he just wanted to express himself right, but the way he was doing it she felt, evaluated, put down. They have to stop and look at that and come to an agreement or a deal that he's got some other people he could talk to about. That. It can't just be heartbreak. So it is really an important aspect of our relational life to make these deals and be as conscious as we can I mean, we're just doing the best we can here about how we treat each other.
Speaker 2:Going back to the Berkman for a minute, one of the components around the Berkman is how we communicate, whether we're very direct and kind of frank about our communication or we're more diplomatic about how we pay attention to delivery and how we say things Right, but underneath that is the need, Right. Some people need a more direct kind of communication style. They don't get it. If you're not direct with them, they kind of say, well, what?
Speaker 2:are you talking about, and some of us have a need for a more respectful or diplomatic approach to us.
Speaker 3:Not like us, does it?
Speaker 2:My style tends to be a little more on the diplomatic end. In terms of my usual behavior, wendy's style tends to be more direct and I won't say in your face, but at times you know it's frank and direct, but I work on it.
Speaker 2:But her need is very different, right? Her need is for me to communicate with her in terms of respect, diplomacy pay attention to how I say things to her. Most of the time we treat each other the way we act, right. So if somebody has a very direct and pointed communication, stop. We tend to immediately give that to them when it may not be what they need at all. And that's really important in terms of our contracting, because sometimes our communication is one of the biggest problems we've got in terms of reaching some kind of agreement.
Speaker 3:Probably frequently. Toward that end, I want to give you a how-to from my point of view, because I don't always have self-awareness of how I'm coming across. So the deal we've worked on and the explicit contract is you stay in tension. Bob, I'd like to talk to you about dot dot dot, and what I want from this conversation is your yes or your no, or what.
Speaker 3:I want from this conversation is just for you to listen to me and hug me and tell me you're sorry. I feel bad If I make myself tell him what I want from him, what my intention in bringing this up is, before I launch. The most of the time it's a safer close, but if I start and I don't say my intention is so, we've gotten a lot better. What's your intention? What would this look like? If it's a good outcome, what are you hoping to get out of this?
Speaker 1:so we can get more on the same page and that dramatically changes how those communication differences land speakers all over the world South Korea, you name it and they're being so vulnerable with us today about their own relationship and how challenging it is, even when you know these things, because so much of what we bring to a relationship is our old stories and our reactivity and our defenses and things that worked for us when we were kids and then we get into these intimate relationships and they're so hard. It's very refreshing, I believe, to hear you talking about the things you're still working and growing up with, because how long have you been married?
Speaker 2:We just celebrated our 44th anniversary Wow, wow and that's 44 years for Wendy and 44 years for me, so it's really 88 years. I love that. We each have our own view of what this relationship is, and they both count.
Speaker 1:You know, Bob, your Berkman also really helped me understand when you were talking about. So this is my behavior, my normal behavior. I'm very diplomatic in my approach and then, under stress, I become brutally direct.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, you know yeah, so you know it's so. It does impact people more when I'm direct or when I get really quiet, because that's just not my normal way of behavior. And what you know I've learned from both of you is really paying attention to my reactivity. And when I find myself being really short with people or very direct, it's almost like I'm saying to them what is wrong with you? That you don't get what I'm saying. You know it's so, it's so direct, yeah, and but when I find myself doing that, that really managing my own reactivity, because the intention I have might be a good one, but the impact is awful and the beauty of what you said is the idea that we take responsibility for our impact.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because we want to be innocent, and one of the big couplehood problems is you misunderstood me, that's not what I meant. You're so sensitive. It's you, you, you, as opposed to huh that sure didn't land the way I hoped it would land. But often I think the question is did I even know how I wanted it to land? Did I even know what I wanted to get from you? Or was I just opening mouth and blurting? And I can open mouth and blurt with Bob, but I need a deal. I need to say can I just blah, blah, blah and he knows then that his job is to hold reactivity and be responsive to me and maybe smile at me and say is there more so that I get a chance to do that? And then to say shall we take this into some functional place or operational place? And then we're synergistic.
Speaker 2:I'm a fixer right. So if you put a situation out there, that's immediately where I go right. But again, it's about knowing the person well enough to know what is that need that's driving that behavior. If I can slow down enough to remember that, if Coco's being really direct and overly aggressive, she's under stress, right, that's a stress reaction. And so if she's acting that way, that's when I can say I get it. So what would be a good reaction to that stressful situation? And sometimes so what I can do is I can listen right, reduce the stress and then Coco or whoever can go back to being their diplomatic, sensitive self.
Speaker 1:But isn't it important, though, to be able to do that for me? I had to really disclose what that, what was about within me. I had to really look at that, going back to the personal responsibility, because otherwise it may be hard for the other person to even kind of interpret what that directness is about. But once you've had a conversation and I've been vulnerable and I say, gosh, I act this way and I'm not proud of it, but, boy, it does happen to me when I'm under stress and I'm sorry, then they can do what you just suggested, bob, which is to say, wow, so she's under stress right now, because I can see that directness popping out and then ask for what I need.
Speaker 2:I know that if Wendy is avoiding me, that that's a very strong communication, right, and what that probably means is I've gotten into my fix it evaluate, prepare for the worst. I do that normal thing that I do, or I've rained on her parade in some way and so she's just gone, and so that's a very powerful communication that you know I've got some cleanup to do, right, because I was just unconscious about I was just doing my same old thing, yeah.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And, you know, the same old thing in some ways has helped me a lot, but in some ways it gets in my way as well. I think the main thing I think about this contracting thing is just, you know, slow, slow things down a bit, especially if you're feeling resentful. If you're feeling resentful, it's probably about a contract that has expired or is in the process of expiring, like your credit card does. It expires, so you've got to get a new one, and if we could just think a little bit more like that, then we could, you know, live in a little more peace and calm, I think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and stay connected, because it isn't the things that keep us disconnected many times, although they do and they can. But I think these day-to-day things that keep us disconnected many times, although they do and they can, but I think these day to day things that you're talking about, like we've had a new baby and I used to do all the grocery shopping, but now like I can't, I can't do it all, and how we renegotiate that contract with each other because needs have changed, right those family situation has changed.
Speaker 1:Well is there anything else that we haven't covered today? I've so enjoyed our time together that you really want to say before we sign off.
Speaker 2:I want to invite Wendy to maybe just say a few words about the foundation of relational contracting as it relates to caring, power and responsibility. I think that would be a good wrap-up. Would you be willing to do that, Wendy?
Speaker 3:Oh see, now, there was a nice contract. There was a nice contract. We also talk about mini-contracts, you know, just interactive moments, that living that way is just a kindness. May I respond? You know, would you tell me what you think of that kind of thing?
Speaker 3:So in relationships, we think you could make an assumption that when things aren't in flow there is a challenge. Right, all frustrations should be challenges. The challenge is when it's in a relationship standpoint that's true, families or couples is that somehow the experience of feeling cared for has been challenged. And that often happens when I can't see that you see me and know me, compassion, or when the power experience is more hierarchical, less respectful, as I said earlier and I'm pushing against the power experience because part of Bob's early teaching was around positive power and influence and what does that look like? And we think to have power in a relationship is a given. How do you make it our? That's positive power.
Speaker 3:And then that experience about respect, you know, which is often around who's got responsibility for what and a lot of the things for us. I think, around respect is I see you and I value what you do. We went through a period of time a few years ago where we got this and we got really intentional for a period of time about noticing I noticed that you emptied the dishwasher. I really appreciated that hey, I see that you've cleaned out this drawer. Or I would drive him over and say, look at this closet. And he'd say wow, and the positives of it were gas in the tank and we had several friends go oh, why are you so nice to each other all the time?
Speaker 1:We said, because it helps when people notice what we do right. Say that again, please. Cpr for couples CPR for couples.
Speaker 1:I love that Compassion power and respect, and I think we could think about it in so many different ways. I was just thinking about before we got on today I was running errands because we're going to see our kids in Greenville tomorrow and I needed to do this errand and I wasn't sure I'd have time and I just texted Kevin. You know, will you do this? And for me that's a stretch, because my story growing up is I have to do everything myself, and so asking is a risk because he might not do it. It's easier to do it myself. Oh, exactly Right. So I think this consciousness that we're all talking about is so much around self-awareness and knowing that we have outgrown our contract.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, and that's a really good thing, it's just a scary thing.
Speaker 1:It is scary. We've been doing this a while and it's scary, but I sent that text and I was aware like, oh yeah you got to do that.
Speaker 3:The last part I'd say, coco, is also we better adjust, because if we're going to be together long term and as as most of us want to be, we're going to keep changing. Life is going to keep changing. Absolutely. What's the deal that has to happen right now?
Speaker 1:yeah, what is the? What is the growth trying to happen for both of us in this situation? Who's driving the car? Who's going to get the toy at target? Whatever the thing is is it looks small, but we really have a big dynamic going on and I want to thank you for asking us this is so fun.
Speaker 1:Well, it is so fun. I think the three of us share and Kevin as well this passion for helping other people learn about different ways of thinking about relationship, and just a shift in perception can really change so much. And nobody taught us how to do these things growing up. We didn't come with a manual for marriage. So this podcast, the Relationship Blueprint, is about helping you unlock your power. And you can't unlock your power until you're aware of it and you're aware of how your intention may or may not match the impact that you want. And one of the questions I keep coming back to recently is you know, is what I'm doing effective? Not judging, just is it effective? And if it's not effective, let's talk about it. I am grateful to Bob and Wendy. Today they have a workshop coming up. Do you want to talk about that?
Speaker 2:So this is the Getting the Love you Want workshop. We do one of these a year and this one is coming up at the end of March, where we'll be in person. Since the pandemic, a lot of these workshops have been online, but once a year we do this one in person here in Atlanta. So just invite folks to go to our website, imagogeorgiacom, and there's a lot of information there about the workshop and, if you have an interest, how to sign up.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and you won't be able to find another place to study how to really improve your relationship better than getting the Love you Want workshop, and with Bob and Wendy Patterson Signing off everybody. Thank you again. We're in 250 cities, we are in 29 countries and we're growing. Because you're sharing and liking and commenting on Apple and Spotify. We're also on YouTube and just remember the relationship blueprint. Unlock your power of connection and how connection is at the heart of our health and without connection we fall apart. Thank you everybody for being here and we'll see you next time on the Blueprint.
