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The Relationship Blueprint: Unlock Your Power of Connection
Colleen is a student of Dr. Harville Hendrix and Dr. Helen LaKelly Hunt who created the Imago Theory and have brought this work to over 50 countries around the world. She is profoundly influenced by this belief shared by Dr. Harville Hendrix. He said, "We are born in relationship, wounded in relationship and healed in relationship."
What are you struggling with today? Colleen believes that almost any problem we have began with a broken or unhealed relationship. The anxiety or deep sadness we feel often began with unresolved issues in our relationships with our parents, partner, family or friends. When we have unmet needs we are programed to get those needs met. When we don't get what we need we protest by protecting ourselves. this often looks like defensive, critical, demanding behaviors. these behaviors are most often ineffective. As a result we may develop unhealthy relationship with food, sex, gambling our or a substance.
Colleen invites world renown relationship specialists from all over the world to help her guests explore their own relationships and see their problems through a relational lens. She will help us explore how to create intimacy to deepen our connections. Her listeners will gain insights to create a more joyful life.
Colleen is a Licensed Professional Counselor in the state of South Carolina, a certified, Advanced Imago Clinical therapist, a clinical instructor for the Imago International Trading Institute while maintaining her clinical practice in Hilton Head Island, South Carolina.
Thank you for joining Colleen today. Remember, don't let life happen to you. You can be the architect of your relationships. Join her next time on the Relationship Blueprint; Unlock Your Power of Connection.
Contact Colleen at colleen@hiltonheadislandcounseling.com for questions or to be a guest on the show!
The Relationship Blueprint: Unlock Your Power of Connection
Sex, Desire, and the Path Back to Intimacy with Dr. Nikki Nolet
What happens when the spark fades? That question haunts couples across all life stages, from newlyweds to empty nesters. In this illuminating conversation with Nikki, a dual-certified Imago therapist and sex therapist, we uncover the delicate interplay between emotional connection and physical intimacy that shapes our relationships.
Nikki dismantles common misconceptions about sex therapy with warmth and candor. Forget awkward demonstrations or uncomfortable scenarios—this is talk therapy that creates safe spaces for exploring desires and addressing barriers to satisfaction. By integrating these approaches with Imago Relationship Therapy's focus on childhood wounds and connection patterns, couples receive a holistic framework for transforming their relationships.
The conversation travels through various relationship stages, each with unique challenges to intimacy. New parents struggle with exhaustion and shifting priorities, wondering how to maintain connection while caring for a child. Young adults face performance anxiety fueled by unrealistic expectations and digital influences. Long-term couples discover they've become "roommates" rather than lovers. Aging partners navigate physical changes requiring adaptation and creativity. For each scenario, Nikki offers practical wisdom that balances psychological insight with actionable strategies.
Perhaps most revolutionary is the reframing of "scheduling" intimacy. As Nikki points out, we happily scheduled romantic encounters at the beginning of relationships—why should intentionality diminish desire later? By approaching relationship challenges as a team rather than viewing sexual concerns as individual problems, couples can break free from blame and embrace collaboration.
Ready to move beyond "good enough" in your relationship? Join us as we explore how curiosity, exploration, and skilled guidance can help you rediscover the joy and fulfillment that comes from truly seeing and being seen by your partner. Visit relationshipsredefined.com to connect with Nikki or explore upcoming workshops that could transform your relationship.
Thank you for joining me today on the Relationship Blueprint. Remember, don't let life happen to you. You can be the architect of your relationships. So join me next time on the Relationship Blueprint; Unlock Your Power of Connection.
Contact Colleen at colleen@hiltonheadislandcounseling.com for questions or to be a guest on the show!
Welcome back everybody to the Relationship Blueprint. Unlock your Power of Connection. And today I have with me a special guest. She is from the San Diego area. She is not only an Imago therapist training right now to be a workshop presenter and presenting a workshop in New Jersey with one of the masters, and she'll tell you more about that but Nikki is also a sex therapist and I feel like it's so important for our listeners to understand. You know you've heard a lot about Imago therapy and what we do, but I feel like that additional training and her wisdom around this can really help us understand. Do I need a sex therapist? Am I going to be okay with a couples therapist? And why not have both is what my thoughts are. But anyway, no further ado. I'm really excited to have you here today, nikki, and is there anything that I left out in the introduction that you want to tell our listeners?
Speaker 2:No, I think it's a great joining between sex therapy and amalgotherapy. Yeah, and my upcoming workshop is currently in New Jersey on April 12th and 13th, and then going forward I might have some in San Diego or some in London or some in LA, so might be bouncing around a bit if anyone wants to join.
Speaker 1:Is the one in New Jersey going to be in person or online?
Speaker 2:The one in New Jersey is in person In person Wonderful.
Speaker 1:So if they want to find out more about that workshop, where do they go? If they want to find out more about that workshop, where do they go?
Speaker 2:If they want to find out more about the workshop, you can reach out to me on my website. It's relationshipsredefinedcom.
Speaker 1:Relationshipsredefinedcom. So if you want more after listening to Nikki today and I'm sure you will you may want to sign up for that workshop and look for others in the future. And is your workshop also listed on Imago Relationships work? It should be. I'm doing one in Florida this weekend. I know Wendy and Bob are doing one in Atlanta. We have workshops going on all over the world. So if you can't make any of the ones that we've already talked about on the podcast and if you can't get to Nikki's, it's not your last chance. So don't forget to look at imago relationships work. So, nikki, let's get into it. So we know that a lot of our listeners know what imago therapy is, but I was looking at your website and I really liked your writing around. You know, come with your partner or come alone, because either way, you're going to find a way to help them. Can you talk about that? Yeah, of course.
Speaker 2:I think that a lot of us are also scared sometimes if your partner doesn't want to come in, you're not sure how to make any movement in the relationship and really rediscovering how your relationship is with yourself. You know, in sex therapy we work a lot with body esteem or about even like psychoeducation that you've received around sexuality, sensuality, right, A lot of desire. So I think that you can make a lot of headway even in couples therapy if you go in individually and talk about, like, what are the dynamics Behaviorally? If you change, your partner is bound to notice and maybe be curious about things and say, oh, there seems to be a change there and what's causing this?
Speaker 1:I really love that, because I do think that sometimes our partners are not open to therapy and we do feel stuck and what you're suggesting is really that if you come alone, you're gonna also grow and there's a way for you to help break some patterns by having an expert help you look at them together. I really love that. So, because it's so hard to be in relationship and have this disconnection and not knowing where to go or what to do with it, and often we just leave it unattended and that rarely is helpful, although it may feel like it's helpful because there's no fighting about it, but it generally doesn't help like a garden that's unattended, right. So help us understand a little bit more. Now, if I'm out there and I'm looking for a couples therapist, how do I kind of decide whether or not I need a sex therapist as well? How would I determine that? What kind of problems or struggles or challenges might I be facing if I really need to come and see you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, great question. If people are struggling with feeling low desire in their relationships, if they're having difficulty around any sexual engagement with your partner, or if that's the last thing to go, If you're constantly fighting about intimacy or the type of intimacy that you want. Some people have sexual dysfunction that plays into their relationship. That's another reason to come in to talk to a sex therapist. I think when people think of a sex therapist, they think they're going to be like somebody's going to watch them and they're going to have to disrobe in the office.
Speaker 1:You're right. I think you're right.
Speaker 2:Very interesting, different type of therapy, but I think they forget that it's talk therapy and we do talk about interventions to do together and we do talk about things that are very intimate and you know sensual, you know on a deeper level between them, really, you know just being vulnerable. You know, I think the benefit is because I'm a both a couples and a sex therapist, so I see you know everything on a pendulum swing, right? So it is about communication factors. And why are we so dysfunctional talking about sex versus just talking about communication? Why is one easier than the others? If you asked for something like honey, can you bring the milk home? Or honey? Can we try something new in the bedroom tonight? Why is one harder than the other?
Speaker 1:task, yeah yeah, really really great question. And I'm thinking when you said, why is communication easier than to talk about sex? And I'm thinking if couples are locked up, even communicating, like I can't even ask you for my needs right now, around just helping me at home, it would be really hard to then say, and by the way, I'm not satisfied in bed, right, or I need more sex because I'm so maybe tied up in my disappointment of whatever else is going on. As a sex therapist, do you notice that you work mostly on the communication first, or is how does that?
Speaker 2:go how that differs per each. Each client that comes in. As you know, even for a couples therapist will differ in what methods we use. Right, it's just a matter of what what cards we have in the deck in our back pocket to utilize at any given time in in sex therapy. Some people come pretty early if they found out that sexual dysfunction is at play, if it's a biological thing or even a psychological thing, some people haven't even done biological testing to rule that out. So we'll go over what does that entail and to make sure, like we have to really kind of rule out biological processes and psychological processes and if we're working at them on a collaborative scale, that gets us really a lot faster to our progressional goal. Sometimes they come early and sometimes they wait for a really long period until they feel like stale roommates, you know, yeah, or just co-parents if they've had kids, and it becomes a lot difficult for them to to find time to, you know, kind of fit together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean the first year of having a baby. I'm not sure of the statistics, but as much as that is such a joyful, beautiful experience, it's a hard experience too. It's hard. I just left our son and daughter-in-law.
Speaker 1:They have a 22 month old and they just had a baby a month ago and just the amount of work, and I'm thinking they must be so tired, like thinking about sex has to be sort of the last thing on their list. I'm not saying that's true about them, I just had these thoughts as I was with them, noticing how hard they work at being good parents, and so what is that seems to be a common theme, at least in my practice, where younger couples are not having sex. Well, let's talk about the couples that were madly in love. Maybe they didn't even fight that much and then this baby comes and they're starting to have like these differences, whether it's about parenting or just exhaustion. Tell us a little bit about how you work with them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I imagine just being exhausted, because the average that you get in the first four months is about three to four hours at any given time before the baby's hungry again or needing something right.
Speaker 2:So the parents are always having to be aware and alert as much as possible, as much as they can. So, yes, they're exhausted, but, you know, even if you can really focus, because before the baby came there was that relationship, the focus was on each other, and now the focus has shifted to the survival of this baby and this child. So it's become a bit of a triangulation, if you will, versus just you know, between the two partners. And it's really important to make time, even when your baby's sleeping or spending time together, just even communicating or discussing what you might want or need later on. So when you do have a little bit of spare time, that's something that you can act on and put into efforts to come together. It doesn't necessarily have to be sex. Maybe it's a bit of foreplay, maybe it's a bit of emotional foreplay, maybe it's playing games together and having fun, doing something spontaneous that they, if they, haven't gotten out of the house, I imagine with a new baby.
Speaker 1:I had one young mother tell me once that when her husband just took the baby and said go get a shower, she said that was the best foreplay I've ever had. It's just the idea of like. He saw me. He saw I was struggling and he didn't see me with my dirty hair and my robe. He saw that I really needed to go have a little me time. And it was so tender the way she talked about it, because it's hard to even find time to take a shower, let alone to make time for sex early on in those early days with a baby. So those couples, you really encourage them to make time, whatever that thing is. It doesn't have to mean necessarily getting into bed, but talking about it and talking about date night and maybe doing a little re-romantization.
Speaker 2:And you know when we think about date night date night doesn't have to be having to go out of the house, right, you can create opportunities wherever you're at to find times to connect and find things that are joyful, connective and fun between the two of you. I think we forget a lot about levity in relationships and how important it sometimes is, because sometimes, if we're so tired, we're just focused and sometimes we take it so seriously and then we get very sensitive, especially around that time with each other too.
Speaker 1:That's a really good point about the sensitivity, because when people are tired at any age, how quick are we to snap or you know, and not be as patient or kind to our partner as we'd like to be?
Speaker 2:So that's a really good point about that tired part, but also being, you know, patient with your partner, because it's as a team. You're both doing this right. As new parents, it's a very difficult road ahead to kind of figure out, for at least the first couple of months, what is the normalcy? What are you planning on doing?
Speaker 1:You brought up a few minutes ago about younger people, and I'm very curious because in my practice I guess it was when I was still seeing younger clients I had some teenage boys who were really having a hard time when they would be with somebody they cared about and they would get into bed and they would have difficulty having sex. And so can you talk a little bit about that for our listeners?
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course, especially with younger generations. I think it's been hard, because what's become more adaptive is the utilization of a lot of technology, right? Yes, especially like pornography is more accessible and available, and that's become kind of a little bit of a norm of what the expectation of sexual engagement is supposed to look like. And so become kind of a little bit of a norm of what the expectation of sexual engagement is supposed to look like. And so we kind of unpack with a lot of my younger patients and clients is, you know, let's unpack what the expectation is and let's really think about like, what would you like versus what have you been prone to seeing or adapting to? Sometimes there's not as much of a face-to-face interaction as there has been. I mean, if we look at the dating scene, now that's even adapted to online, so there's not really this personalization of connection first before these expectations are already at hand. So, really talking about like, what is it like to really be with somebody and what are these expectations? Sometimes we get performance anxiety and how does?
Speaker 2:right, that's usually what happens is like yeah, I don't know how to go about this. I don't know. The other person just expects me to do something and I don't know if they're going to like it and I'm really focused on their enjoyment, and then it's just this frozen feeling. So, really getting into, how do you feel most relaxed? What happens and what is the expectation from you? What are assumptions are getting drawn? What is the story that you tell yourself before you even engage?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that I'm thinking of a particular case where the young man really really, I mean he thought he was in love with this girl, and maybe he was. I haven't seen him in a long time but he really wanted to please her. But he was really suffering from performance anxiety and what he had said about, you know, porn was just so easy. And now intimacy, you know, I really I don't know how I haven't had.
Speaker 1:It's not the normal progression for a lot of people, especially my age, where you did a lot of kissing in high school like little dates, I mean, it wasn't. The world was very different then. And so to suddenly meet someone and want to care about them in an intimate way, it was pretty overwhelming. And then his girlfriend was saying things like you don't like me because then she went into her body. Shame, right, I'm not enough. There's some reason why you're not performing, because girls tend to have what ideas about young men at that age, but that's all they want and they're probably having sex with other people that are more beautiful or whatever story it is around what they think is a good body image.
Speaker 2:We tend to have a lot of self-shaming around comparison of others and, coco, to be honest, I see that across the board, in all generations. It's not just the younger generations that are struggling with that, even people that have been in relationships for quite some time if there's not the affirmation of tell me that you love me or tell me that you know. A lot of some people use sex as the barometer for the success of the relationship. Others use emotional connection as the barometer for the relationship. So it's different dynamics, it's a different measurement for both. Certainly, you know somebody that has been exposed to porn, right? Porn is a transactional storyline, really, when we look at it and if we were to unpack and pull the curtain back, it wouldn't be as sexy because they would see that there's an entire script, right, and like they're told like I'm going to do this and I'm going to put my arm here and then, right to like, make you come through. Nobody has that in real life. Like that would be tremendously exhaustive for anyone to go through. Talking about like what, realistically, are your goals right and how can you convey this? How can you talk about things openly?
Speaker 2:I think we get really stuck because when we're learning about ourselves. When have we learned what sexuality, what sensuality, what eroticism right, all of these? These are different ways of being vulnerable. They're under the same umbrella but they're very different in like contextually.
Speaker 2:So when we look at like, how did we learn? Did we learn from stories of our peers? Did we learn proper ways of how our biology works, our physiology right, what another person might be responsive, to which we are all different, there are a couple of commonalities that we have, but responsibly in our body we all respond differently. So really learning to kind of weave in between really is really what I try to do with my patients in sex therapy especially right, because there's a lot of shaming that we get. We get a lot of messages either socially or culturally, in our own families. Culturally, you know, wherever we're at, we get a lot of messages of what's right, what's not right. We're told that we should know, or told not to investigate and then expected to perform. So a bit of a gap, if you will expected to perform.
Speaker 1:So a bit of a gap, if you will. It's so interesting because these younger people especially have so much information coming at them, at their fingertips. If they want to learn about A, B or C, it's out there. They just can search it and see things and watch other people experience things. That may be atypical but still they have access to so much. And I guess my question is about the emotional readiness, the cognitive readiness, for going out into the world and being able to try things on with the I wouldn't say the same kind of confidence that we had, because I don't think that I had a ton of confidence, but I was with a lot of other people who didn't have confidence, so that sort of leveled the playing field, Whereas it feels like today these kids have so much knowledge and not so much experience. Would you agree with?
Speaker 2:that I would agree. I think they're also looking at from a computational level, like they're looking for solutions like tell me how to make somebody reach an orgasm instead of let's explore together to figure out what pleasure means between the two of us. Right, a lot of us learn to be focused on the other partner and not focused on our experience. So we're focused on your partner's pleasure, what your partner's experiencing. You kind of lose being present with your partner when you do that as well, because you're really. You're really more focused on them, which isn't necessarily something that's a negative. It is something to notice.
Speaker 2:What happens to you when you're more focused on your partner? What happens when you're not focusing on your own experience? Like, are you experiencing pleasure? Is it the pleasure in witnessing your partner experience pleasure? What does it feel like in your body to feel the pleasure? What needs to happen in order for that to occur? Is there a different way of being touched that that might open up for you? Is there something that you wish that you could explore with your partner that maybe doesn't feel as explorative? You're always looking for solutions, right? So I think, relationally, we forget that there's not as much solution oriented aspect versus exploration, right and we can find new ways. There's not only one pathway of getting to an end result of pleasure and joy. There's so many ways and it's just a matter of exploring them.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So we've kind of talked a little bit about the teenagers and the younger parents who are going through that stage of life. And it's bringing me to that stage where couples have been married a long time and they love each other, but they've lost each other a little bit in the middle of going to soccer games and working long hours etc. The typical scenario and it feels really sad to me when couples will come in after their kids graduated from high school and feel like we don't know each other, like, let alone having sex, like we don't even know each other, we don't even know if we like each other, we don't share the same interests because the kids were our focus. And with those couples in the bedroom, how do you help them? What's your best advice for those couples that are really become detached, emotionally even, and let alone physically?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know what an opportunity at that point to rediscover each other too, right. It is essentially like a stranger, but it's a stranger that you chose so long ago to be your partner, right. And we kind of forget that in the beginning of our relationships. I don't know about you, but at the beginning of my relationships it's usually a courtship right, and you plan dates like you know. You've been with somebody for a while and you're still planning dates. You know you're probably going to have sex or be intimate with this person. You're just planning putting a date with it, right. And some people find it so unsexy to say, oh my God, we're scheduling sex. But we did that at the beginning of our relationship. Yes, true, we did. We dated right and it became something that you look forward to. It's a time that you mark to set aside time for each other. It seems to be very hard for people to rationalize over like scheduling time together, but it is part of the process that you did early on and it seemed really easy to do before, right.
Speaker 1:That's a really interesting point.
Speaker 1:I really liked that, Nikki, because I remember as a young girl overhearing my mother and one of her friends, I didn't want to really hear about them talking about sex period, but I do remember this friend saying to my mom something like well, we just every Wednesday night, that's our night. And I thought it's just like that's horrible, you know, because I was young, you know, and I couldn't understand scheduling sex, which is what you're talking about. And yet, you know, I think you're so right because in the busyness of our lives, if we don't schedule time for our exercise, right, If we don't schedule me time, if we don't schedule us time, it doesn't happen, it just doesn't have the, I guess, the importance attached to it. And so that piece of it that you've just said, I love it because it takes us really back to the beginning that, yes, you shaved your legs because you were going out to dinner and you were going to do whatever that evening and you knew that you were going to have sex, but there was a schedule to it. You're right.
Speaker 2:I mean, you were going to probably have dinner or hang out with that person, but you know what the end goal is going to be right? You've been dating for a while. You've already been sexually intimate with this person and it was very easy and it was something that you look forward to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, because I think when that sort of that doldrum starts to set in with couples, it's such a contagious thing. You know, it's been two months since we've had sex. It's been four months since we've had sex. It's almost awkward for people then, like almost like they don't even know each other Like, oh, I don't know, don't want to ask, I don't want to be rejected or I'm too tired. Lots of excuses about why we're not doing it right.
Speaker 2:But then you realize, like, are you starting to fantasize about another person? And that's yet another stranger. So why not go with the person that you trust that may seem like a stranger and try it out and see what happens, right, and see if there's connection as well? I always ask my patients. I say, when was sex the best in the relationship? Right, and always what I hear is like in the beginning of the relationship.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, in the beginning it's new and novel, it's someone that you don't know a lot about. It's exciting, right, but it's the same thing like again, you make time, you're having dates, you're putting an effort, it's a priority for you, right? And so that goes back to what you were saying, like the prioritization of the tasks that we have. Why is one thing more important than the other? So, reconsidering what's really important for you in your life to have, you know, and putting time aside for everything, whether it be for yourself, if you don't get enough self-care, even if you have young kids, really like kind of passing the baton to your partner if you will and say, hey, I'm going to take on Tuesday, can you take the kids for an hour. I'm going to go do something for myself, even if it's walking around the neighborhood. I need to get out. I haven't been out for three days, right? Absolutely yeah. I mean just thinking of different ways of getting what you need and being able to effectively do it in a way where your partner can communicate, understand you and really hear you.
Speaker 2:And I think that sometimes we don't learn that on a sexual level about because we have so much reticence, right, we're scared to ask for that. We sometimes don't even ask for it from ourselves much, let alone from a partner, right, because we're like oh gosh, and most of the time sometimes we don't complain because it works and we get to an orgasm anyway at the end. So why, you know, if it's not broke you don't have to fix it. But what happens if you can make it better?
Speaker 1:That's such a great way to describe it too. I think that the idea, like people say, well, our marriage is okay, I won't come to a workshop, and it's like it's okay, good enough for you because it's not good enough for me. I've never been really good at being satisfied with good enough, right? I think we only get this one journey around the sun, and why don't we all want more for ourselves, right? It reminds me of Maya saying that people would rather live in a predictable hell than have a taste of heaven. That this routine that's not satisfying, that I may be bored with. I'd rather kind of suffer mildly here than take this risk to find out what else is possible for us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, and so sometimes they don't get to actually uncover any of these fears or these longings underneath until they come into one of our offices and really have a little bit more depth, where we can guide them and dialogue about that. You know, in sex therapy we have things that are sensate, focused therapist exercises, so we give them exercises in between, broaden the type of intimacy that they're having together as well, because some people just see that like penetration is just here's the normal means. We sometimes forget that there's a dance before you get there, right?
Speaker 2:And it's like you can't drive from a zero to 125 and expect it to be in seconds, like it just doesn't work that well, right, and you're asking your partner to start from scratch, so really inviting each other and making that like a dance and like you know, when does foreplay begin with you? Maybe it's two, two days before and you're starting to talk about it. You're starting to connect in different ways, maybe through affectionality and showing affection towards your partner. You know there's all different things that people do, so there's not really one. When I always say there's not one model just for everyone, right, there's all different pathways to get them there. It's just whether or not they're willing to explore. I mean, how boring would it be for everyone to do the same thing?
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely. And I'm also thinking now of the couples you know my age and older where you know we're aging and yet we still, we're still alive. I think our children would not want to hear this, but you know that that there's a lot of struggles that people have having sex when they're older, and how do you help those couples? I know you really made a great point at the beginning of our podcast about the biology and ruling out like anything medical and so seeking that kind of help. Tell us about that. Tell us about people that are of an age that they may just be biologically having some real struggles.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that kind of goes to the adage of like, why not make it great? If it's only good Like, why settle for that? But you know, even as we age and Coco, I'm going to put this out there like your kids are going to root for you. You know, it's good to know that your parents are still strong and having sex even when they're older, like that's, that's, that's a goal, right, that we all want to get to. But you know, as as we all want to get to, but you know, as as we all get older, our hormones change, right.
Speaker 2:If you're premenopausal, menopausal women have difficulty. Our tissue gets a lot more sensitive, it's thinner. We go through periods of dryness, we go through periods of, you know, whether or not we have enough estrogen or testosterone. Both men and women function off of testosterone, progesterone and estrogen right. So learning about like if men are struggling with erectile dysfunction, is maybe there's a supplement that they can start taking that would help them to actually increase. It's not just only psychological or like just solely biological, but there are things that are in our body that we can help right To kind of register to make it easier for that interaction to occur. It doesn't always have to be so difficult. So if we could figure out what's off for you, how easy would that be? Right, if we can take those struggles off the table and then say, okay, so now we don't have any problems, now what's next?
Speaker 1:That's so good. Yeah, so I think you know really what I'm hearing you say too is throughout all of this whole span of development, as we're growing into our sexual selves, that there's not enough psychoeducation really available generally about you know what is normal. I mean I don't like that word, but let's go with typical. You know what is typical, and is it, for example, the older couples who say the man's having erectile dysfunction problems so typical? If he could hear that it takes away the shame factor that I think many people are carrying around, whether you're 16 or 60. And once you start to get educated it really does help tremendously. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, some of my younger clients that are in their 20s are saying I have erectile dysfunction and then we find out that it's just anxiety, and it's just because you have performance anxiety and that's what's getting in the way, and then you don't have any erectile dysfunction. So you know, how do we get you from good to great, right. And for older clients, like, it is normal to have ED after a certain age, right, like 70, over 70% of men over the age of 50, at some point in their life are going to struggle with that. So kind of having that normalization of that is something that happens and it's okay and let's learn different ways of approaching that.
Speaker 2:What's your diet like? What are the things around you, how much stress, how much sleep, like all of these are factors into what contributes to us sexually as well. You know, I think it's really important for me also to define, while I'm here, is what sex is right, because my version of sex isn't just penetration. My version of sex, when I talk about sex, is like everything under the sun Foreplay, intimacy, satisfaction, satisfaction, desire, eroticism, vitality between each other. How much energy is entailed, right like when does intimacy start? What is your like definitive term? Like, what is your ideal of intimacy? You even ask partners and they're really surprising each other like, oh my gosh, my gosh, I've never known that I'm like. You guys have been together for 25 years. How did you never ask this question?
Speaker 1:I think that's so important and I remember in one of our episodes with Sophie Slade she said we talked about sex all the time. We blamed each other, we told each other how disappointed we were and all the reasons why. You know I couldn't have sex, didn't want sex, and it never stopped a thing. You know that negativity and that what you're discussing is something so different about you know what are your fantasies and and tell me more about how you see intimacy and how have you experienced me as an intimate partner? And all of these rich conversations that don't label or shame anyone because it's a tender area.
Speaker 2:It's a very tender area. I think we all have enough shame for ourselves to even stop the momentum right. It totally gets us distracted. Enough to actually stop the cycle of arousal. Completely right. For most women, even the thought of having a young child break into the room, even the thought of it right, it doesn't have to happen, but the mere thought that bumps into your head in the middle of it is enough just to pop you out of the space and say I'm not, I'm not there, I can't do this anymore. Right, there are so many distractions and so many negative things around us already. If we're working with a couple, we have to think of it like how to? What's the team dynamic? How do you both support each other to get to the place where you both want to be Right? And so how do we keep? Like scaffolding, so it becomes positive after positivity. There's enough negativity that will always float in, but it's about clearing the space in between. That's awesome.
Speaker 2:Well is there anything else that we haven't covered that you'd like to cover today? That is really important about the work you do. Libido or arousal, or either partners aren't interested in them and then the other partner's like I want more, I don't get enough of it and it's not even necessarily like a sexual engagement.
Speaker 2:It may be attention, it may be time right, but I don't have the energy and my partner wants more of me, and this becomes like this.
Speaker 2:They become like this identified problem in the relationship and that's very daunting to have when you don't feel like somebody's there with you to help you.
Speaker 2:But whenever we look at that, it's like every individual problem that you have if you're in a relationship. It becomes a couple's problem, right, and so really kind of learning, like what's the middle ground? Like if you're not able to do this, how can the other person come a little closer? Versus like you have to reach my level right, finding different ways of connection, like finding ways of doing things that are novel, finding things like I think you know we are creatures of habit by all means but for sure, like find something that is creative and new to do together. It invigorates the relationship. There's been tons of research and data that's been backed on that right, that if we do something that's new and novel in relationships, it revives your relationship. You see your partner with new eyes because there's a part of them that was lost or you know, and now you've refound, like this, this vitality right, and having that experience together can be enough to trigger a lot more conversation, a lot more desire to spend more time with each other. Right?
Speaker 2:so there's not as much focus on you're low and I'm high or right, and we only measure low or high based on who we're with.
Speaker 1:It's based on the higher, higher capacity that you become low right right and really what you said I really want to repeat, because this idea that, like, if our partner's suffering from depression, that they have depression, they have to go fix it, that's your thing.
Speaker 1:That goes back to that individual paradigm of psychotherapy right, it's your problem. But I think what we've learned in our work as a MAGO therapist is it doesn't really work that way. I can even say that, but that depression will impact me. So what do I do to help my partner not feel so alone with whatever the struggle is, whether they've lost their job or they're suffering from depression or suffering from ED or low desire? What role can I play in this team, this connected couple? How do I help, support you as you navigate something that's really hard for you and that changes everything? Just the desire right to want to help is so powerful. I love that you brought that up because it's so easy to say well, that's his problem, he'll have to deal with that. Well, I don't know how honest people are being if they don't think it's impacting them as well.
Speaker 1:That energy is there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that goes with like unscripted agreements too. Like you know, how much are you taking on for tasks that are outside of the discussions? So sometimes we don't know what our partner is doing and we just assume there's room for more. So really having a discussion about, like okay, so what is it that you're working on? So that I'm fully aware and let me tell you what my experience is, so that you're fully aware and maybe we can help each other because, like nobody wants to do these, like you know, daunting, like who wants to take out the trash on a regular basis, right, like nobody is going to be volunteering for that. But if you can find out, like maybe your, maybe your worst task or the one that's, like you know, eat the frog, is something that isn't as hard for me, so I'll take that off of your plate and maybe you can help take something off of mine that I didn't realize that was really hard for you, but we wouldn't know if we didn't have those discussions right.
Speaker 1:You're so right. I had Bob and Wendy on. We were talking about relational contracts and how, in every marriage, you know the contrast when we start to have a struggle with our partner whether it's about sex or anything else, like the trash that it's time to maybe renegotiate the contract, that maybe it's expired and that we really need to come in together and let's just use sex for an example today because we have you here, but, like, if I'm not satisfied with my relationship as far as sex, then it's my job really to come to you and say can we talk about this, can we figure this out together?
Speaker 1:And that's very different from you know. You never want to have sex. You're always tired the demeaning kind of shame stuff versus the team that you're talking about.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, we don't always approach each other in the way that registers for our partner. Like if I was to turn myself on and approach my partner in a way that I think registers how I'm feeling, it may not even land on them. Right, that's right. So actually, like, I think what happens is we all think that our partner has a crystal ball. You should know, or we've been together for so long, you should know what to do, right? But we forget that. How would they know? Do we know everything that they want? Certainly not, right, so we don't actually check in.
Speaker 2:So there's story lines that we hold in our head that you don't love me because if you did, you would do this, right? Yes, or you would touch me like this, or you would bring me flowers, or you would like romance. There's no romance in the relationship. Maybe your partner doesn't know what romance is for you, right? So, giving them like one or two examples or saying like, hey, like, maybe this is something that you could do, I'll give you a small item list like five things that maybe you could do, and maybe from that you can get the ball rolling right.
Speaker 1:I love that the menu. I like to use it as a menu.
Speaker 1:So when they do their love languages and say mine is quality time and acts of service, and then putting down all I haven't asked them to do 10 things under each category, and then it's like a menu. But it's not. You don't order everything on the menu, right it's, it's a gift. At least it gives them something. They can look at the list and be like, wow, that would not turn me on or that would not make me feel loved, but it sure does make her feel loved. My husband jokes that cleaning the garage is a foreplay act. It is right. I just love coming into a clean garage. It's awesome.
Speaker 2:It's beautiful. I don't know if you've seen that, but even on the internet, if you like, start looking for women's porn, you'll see men doing like household tasks.
Speaker 1:That's awesome, that's so much fun and you know you said levity and I think that we do lose a lot of that that we forget. If you're the beginning of our relationship. If we look back, there was a lot of laughter and we only maybe had each other to focus on during that time and we may have definitely expanded our lives and have many other pulls and pushes, but that laughter can get you through a lot.
Speaker 2:It can. It can get you through a tremendous amount of stress and anxiety together and create a little bit more bonding. Even if you're laughing together, you feel a little closer, right? Yes, even like the notion of even bringing menus. It can be fun to create menus together. What happens if you create a menu about, like, making your bedroom the most exciting? Or like something, something right, like something that you've never experienced yet. Like what would you want, right, like what would be thrilling? Or what kind of environment do we want to make? Or what kind of positions would we like to try eventually? Or right, you're not picking from everything, but it's kind of you can laugh about it just as much as take it seriously, but choose to laugh about it, choose to have fun together, right, do it at a time where you're not engaged and you're not, you know, the one thing is, if you're giving feedback to your partner, don't do it while you're in the middle of you know, a sexual act. So you know, do it, that's a good point.
Speaker 1:Everyone's listening. This is the sex therapist saying do not give feedback during the act.
Speaker 2:Yes, do not give sexual feedback. While you're sexually engaged, it's the worst time to give sexual feedback.
Speaker 2:And most of the time when we give sexual feedback, it's like oh, I don't like that. That's imagine your partner's like, oh, you don't like that. That's imagine your partner's like, oh, you don't like that. I just got rejected in the middle when I'm most vulnerable. Right, so talk about it before. Might want. Or like hey, can we try this? Are you, are you game for this? Great, If it doesn't work, that's fine. You can suggest something new. You don't have to say I don't like this but you can say, hey, can we try this?
Speaker 1:Or let's switch Right, yeah, and noticing when they do things the right way, you know I really love. I don't think you can go wrong with that one.
Speaker 2:Yes, that is the best feedback that you can give them. Right, I didn't like this, but I love when you touch me this way. I love when you do this Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and remembering, with our brains having that negativity bias, that that is our first go-to. But to really, you know, it's like we're updating our software to be like, how can we really get the kind of love we want? That's the workshop that you're doing getting the love you want. How do we do that? And this is what imagotherapists do. We are the experts at that, and so what Nikki is sharing with us today around sex and around relationships is that it's really not complicated, but it is intentional.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, it's important for us to realize what beliefs, what notions, what statements we have, what stories we have about ourselves, what stories we have about our bodies right, and to be curious as to whether or not they serve us anymore, or if there's a more exciting version of what you would like to learn, and to be curious about learning together and individually. It's a beautiful way of thinking about, like you know, how can we get from good to great? And you don't have to. What is it when everyone just settles right?
Speaker 1:You don't have to settle for that, Make it better, improve it.
Speaker 2:Seek out somebody who can help you and engage you and help guide you through that. If you need to, that's fine right.
Speaker 1:And you know, what I love about talking to you, nikki, is that, whatever perception people had about what is a sex therapist, what do they do? I'm just thinking about being in a room with you and having these easy conversations. If you don't get to see Nikki, you'll have to look at her on YouTube when I post it there. But if you could see her face and her smile, it's like you're so warm and comfortable and you're so comfortable talking about it that that would just put the couple at such ease and I think that's so important for everyone to realize that you're there to help them, right? Thank you, that's very straight to my heart. Well, it's true, you really make it very digestible and open and that it would be, I would think, easy to be vulnerable in your office because you're vulnerable.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, you know, I always feel comfortable sharing my own experiences with my clients because I think it's important to be able to talk about it, and I always tell my clients, like there's no judgment in this room. I've heard everything under the sun. I promise there's nothing that I haven't heard that you could tell me, and if there is, then I'm curious about it. There's no judgment, yeah, yeah, yeah. I really hope you know that that is the experience that they do get when they're in the room with me or, you know, even listening to you know some of the videos that I release. So thank you for saying that, and I hope that everyone gets that journey or that feeling with whoever they might work with too, because that's an important part of it.
Speaker 1:And if you don't, it's really okay to not see that person again. Like so, much of the success of any kind of therapy really is the relationship and the trust that you have with your therapist, and I think sometimes people stay in relationships too long, but they also sometimes stay in a relationship with the therapist too long and then it's easy to say, well, that didn't work right, that wasn't effective. I didn't notice any change. Probably you weren't paying attention to your gut about how do you feel? Like I'm describing how I feel talking about this with Nikki. I feel connected, I feel safe. I feel that if I were in her office I could put anything out there and I wouldn't be judged. That's the feeling you want to have when you're sitting with someone that you're sharing your life with. You know it's a big deal for people to take that step.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know any sex therapist is going to be pretty detail oriented with you. I ask my clients step-by-step what their approach is with their partner and sometimes, you know, I get a lot of blushing in my office for sure, Right. But it is important to feel safe because you are sharing that part of you that never really is seeing the light of day, much less even with your partner. You're having difficulty expressing it. So you know like, hopefully, feeling safe and having that capacity to share that and walk through that with somebody is really an important piece. So thank you for bringing that up, because I think a lot of people forget that that the most important piece and crucial piece of any type of therapy is who you feel like you're working with.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, and knowing that they have you, your interest, at their heart and and certainly you have that, nikki. So thanks for being with us today. And where can see these videos that you put out there? Where would they look for those?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I have a YouTube channel that's also Relationships Redefined, or you can also find them. I've posted them on my website, so I think I have to. I might have to make that live. I'm not sure if I have that live yet or not, but it will be coming. I've already posted them, so it's just a matter of actually formatting and making sure everyone can get access.
Speaker 1:Well, I love that you're providing free access to your wisdom, because it's so important what you have to share with the world, and I want to thank you so much for being with me today. I know our listeners are going to love this, and our podcast, nikki, has grown because of the Imago Therapist all over the world.
Speaker 2:We're in 230 cities and I think it is 28 countries now, so we're really touching more lives, and that's what this is all about, and I think it's wonderful that you're doing this, because I think that a lot of people don't really know what a Mago is and aren't really sure, so you're doing us all a favor by showing everyone what this work is entailing. So it's beautiful work and, you know, I'm so glad that you have the podcast to share it with everyone. So thank you for inviting me.
Speaker 1:Anytime you want to come back, we'd love to have you, because the more we learn, the more we understand and the less scary the whole thing is, because, with the divorce rate that we have and the number of young people not getting in committed relationships whatever messages kids have received about relationships we really, really want to help people know that there is such beauty and depth in relationships and that, yeah, it can be scary to be vulnerable, but on the other side of that is a beautiful life. I really thank you for being so helpful with us today and helping us learn more about our own sexuality and how we can improve, go from good to great, of course, anytime. Thank you so much. Thank you, and this is the Relationship Blueprint we're going to sign off for today, but you really want to go on to Nikki's website and look for her YouTube channel to learn more about sex and how you can make your sex life better, and we will see you next week on the Relationship Blueprint. Unlock your Power of Connection. Thank you.
