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The Relationship Blueprint: Unlock Your Power of Connection
Colleen is a student of Dr. Harville Hendrix and Dr. Helen LaKelly Hunt who created the Imago Theory and have brought this work to over 50 countries around the world. She is profoundly influenced by this belief shared by Dr. Harville Hendrix. He said, "We are born in relationship, wounded in relationship and healed in relationship."
What are you struggling with today? Colleen believes that almost any problem we have began with a broken or unhealed relationship. The anxiety or deep sadness we feel often began with unresolved issues in our relationships with our parents, partner, family or friends. When we have unmet needs we are programed to get those needs met. When we don't get what we need we protest by protecting ourselves. this often looks like defensive, critical, demanding behaviors. these behaviors are most often ineffective. As a result we may develop unhealthy relationship with food, sex, gambling our or a substance.
Colleen invites world renown relationship specialists from all over the world to help her guests explore their own relationships and see their problems through a relational lens. She will help us explore how to create intimacy to deepen our connections. Her listeners will gain insights to create a more joyful life.
Colleen is a Licensed Professional Counselor in the state of South Carolina, a certified, Advanced Imago Clinical therapist, a clinical instructor for the Imago International Trading Institute while maintaining her clinical practice in Hilton Head Island, South Carolina.
Thank you for joining Colleen today. Remember, don't let life happen to you. You can be the architect of your relationships. Join her next time on the Relationship Blueprint; Unlock Your Power of Connection.
Contact Colleen at colleen@hiltonheadislandcounseling.com for questions or to be a guest on the show!
The Relationship Blueprint: Unlock Your Power of Connection
You're Not Broken, Just Wired Differently: An Autistic Therapist's Perspective on Love with Ian Tomlinson
Are you struggling to understand your partner's seemingly perplexing behaviors? The mystery might lie in neurodiversity – the natural variation in how human brains function.
In this eye-opening conversation, Imago therapist Ian Tomlinson brings his unique perspective as both a relationship expert and an autistic man diagnosed at 53. With warmth and candor, he dismantles harmful myths about autism while offering practical wisdom for couples navigating neurological differences.
"It's a difference, not a deficit," Tomlinson emphasizes, challenging the pathologizing framework that has dominated our understanding of neurodivergent minds. Far from lacking empathy, he reveals how many autistic individuals experience heightened sensitivity to others' emotions but process and express that awareness differently. This revelation transforms how we might interpret a partner's behaviors that previously seemed dismissive or disconnected.
The conversation explores the exhausting reality of "masking" – hiding one's natural neurodivergent traits to fit in – and how this affects intimate relationships. Tomlinson introduces listeners to the "double empathy problem," where communication breakdowns between neurotypical and neurodivergent individuals are consistently blamed on the latter, creating relationship imbalances that compound over time.
For couples where one or both partners are neurodivergent (autistic, ADHD, dyslexic, etc.), Tomlinson offers liberating guidance: stop treating neurodivergent traits as problems to fix. Instead, recognize that all relationships involve different communication styles, and focus on mutual accommodation rather than expecting fundamental changes in how someone's brain naturally functions.
Whether you're personally affected by neurodivergence or simply seeking to better understand human differences, this conversation will forever change how you view connection, communication, and the beautiful diversity of human minds.
Thank you for joining me today on the Relationship Blueprint. Remember, don't let life happen to you. You can be the architect of your relationships. So join me next time on the Relationship Blueprint; Unlock Your Power of Connection.
Contact Colleen at colleen@hiltonheadislandcounseling.com for questions or to be a guest on the show!
Welcome back everybody to the Relationship Blueprint, unlocking your Power of Connection. And today I have with me Ian Tomlinson. I got to know Ian a little better when we were at a face-to-face faculty meeting in the Netherlands and absolutely thoroughly enjoyed you and your wife and how fun you are and I think that's so important for therapists to have fun. We certainly did on that trip and learned a lot. So that's when I invited Ian to come and talk to us about neurodiversity. But before we go there, he's part of the Imago faculty, he's an Imago therapist and has built a tremendous community in Manchester, england.
Speaker 1:Ian brings his clinical wisdom, deep compassion, how to explore neurological differences like autism, like ADHD, and how they impact relationships. I think his empathy and deep understanding really helps all of us understand more of what this looks like and what this feels like if you're in couplehood and one or both of you may be dealing with your own neurodivergency or your partner's. So it's an eye-opening dialogue and I'd love to get started. Ian, is there anything I left out that you want to share about you?
Speaker 2:I don't think so. Kirka, that sounds about right, I think. I think you've got me.
Speaker 1:I got you Good. So the thing that I think we need to begin with is really understanding what is neurodiversity. We're hearing it everywhere, but I think that people are kind of unsure and maybe afraid to ask what it is. Can you tell us about that?
Speaker 2:Sure, I mean. Neurodiversity is really looking at how our neurocognitive functioning works differently. Okay, so just like there isn't one type of gender or one type of race or the best type, there is not one way in which our brains work. When we talk about neurodiversity, we're talking about a whole range of ways human beings think and can be influenced by their environment.
Speaker 1:So really, what I'm hearing is that it really is how brains function and how all brains really function differently, but then what does that look like in the environment? And then it's a lot like race or gender. It's really about appreciating our differences. Is that right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's not just brains really, because when we are neurodivergent I mean I know a lot about this because I'm autistic myself it's not just my brain that's autistic, it's my whole body experience. So I will sense the world in a different way, my brain will function in a different way, and I think this is the thing that's really important to emphasize that it's a difference, not a deficit. So I think quite is the thing that's really important to emphasize, that it's a difference, not a deficit. So I think quite often, and especially in relationships, it can be seen as a deficit, and that has sometimes been maybe backed up by the way in which we talk about neurodivergence.
Speaker 1:So this is pretty important, the fact that you yourself are autistic and before we got on our podcast call, you know it was interesting because you asked me for a need, which was how long will this take? And I really appreciated that because I think sometimes when we are with someone that is neurodivergent, if we don't know to ask, then it may feel like we don't care or that we're not sensitive to it. But when you asked me, it made perfect sense of telling me what you need. Is that something you've had to practice or is that just the way you've been to be able to ask for what you need?
Speaker 2:Well, I think I've got better at it. There's lots of different ways of saying it. I'm a late diagnosed autistic man. Some people would say I'm late identified. It's not like I've suddenly become autistic. I've always been autistic and once I got my diagnosis at the ripe old age of 53, so many things fell into place for me about how my life has been and how I interact with the world and how I interact with people. It really started making sense, including where I get stuck in my relationship with my wife.
Speaker 1:So this is big right, Because we're both couples therapists and this part of learning that we go through in imago therapy it's a parallel process, right. So we're helping other couples, but we're going through relationships just like everyone else, and where this really shows up for you is in your own relationship.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it shows up throughout my life in so many different aspects. But certainly one place it does show up is in my relationship, and I think many neurodivergent people experience that. But the way in which they are perceived and received in the world can be very different and often very challenging.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so how autistic people are perceived and received, that feels really important, really be challenging. And so when you were diagnosed at 53, like you said, it's a late diagnosis, but you've always been autistic, but knowing having the diagnosis sounds like it started to put all the pieces together for you, where a lot of things from your past made a lot of sense to you yes, it really helped me start understanding.
Speaker 2:I mean, it was a very difficult process and I I hear that a lot. I work with a lot of neurodivergent clients, but it's a combination really of things suddenly making sense and also the bottom falling out of my world because my identity, who I saw myself as, was fundamentally challenged. That took me many, many months to start getting my head around and I think I'm still in the process of doing that.
Speaker 1:All right. So this really, you know there was like the bottom dropped out and then really it's been a building experience. It sounds like accepting those things and that you're still in that process.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it comes back to maybe the paradigm that we see neurodiversity and neurodivergence from. Let me just define those two terms, because the language that we're going to be using is so important.
Speaker 1:Will you do that for us please, ian.
Speaker 2:So neurodiversity is basically a word that we use to describe all of the different ways in which human beings function. In which human beings function Okay. So whether you're neurotypical, autistic, adhd, adhd, ocd, dyslexic, whatever, there are many, many, many, many different ways to function in the world. Neurodivergence is referring to somebody who diverges from the typical.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I love that you said typical versus normal. I feel like that is such a word we need to let go of, because what is normal?
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely Normal, fits in with this idea of the pathology paradigm which has been really pushed, which is there is a normal. So if you're neurodivergent, there is something wrong with you, and for me, it's really coming from the neurodiversity paradigm, which is actually. I'm different and the way in which I work is different, even from other autistic people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so there's also this generalization, I think, about neurodivergence and that even that you don't all autistic people do not process the same way and they don't look the same way and they don't have the same struggles like that. It is really a continuum, Is that correct, Ian?
Speaker 2:Well, there's that oft-quoted saying that if you met one autistic person, you've met one autistic person and that we all function differently. But I think that also goes for ADHDers and all DHDers, and there are people with you know who are both autistic and ADHD and they're really common. You know many people. A lot of these, a lot of these presentations are co-occurring.
Speaker 1:Yes, and when you talked about this, it makes me think of you know, my husband has ADHD and I've worked for many years with children who would really fight the diagnosis right Many because of the language and because of the way that it's perceived, as you talked about earlier. And what I wonder about that is when we as a culture are talking about autism as a generalization, how does that impact the view from the perspective of the autistic person? How does it affect you when people generalize in that way?
Speaker 2:It feels very dismissive and I think that's the problem with it. It's brilliant, those phrases sort of like well, everybody's a little bit autistic, aren't they? Well, no, Ashley, no, Everybody isn't a little bit autistic. You know, autistic people tend to experience particular groups have particular types of experiences. Everybody doesn't have meltdowns. Everybody doesn't struggle with going to the supermarket because of the exposure to the noise and the lights and the smells. Everybody doesn't crave clear structure in their day. Everybody doesn't always struggle to know what people mean when they're talking. And that's just autism, you know. I also think of ADHD, all HDers who have their own unique experiences too.
Speaker 1:You know it's funny. It's a strange experience that we had the other night. Our fire alarm, the detector, went off at 3am and we couldn't turn it off and it suddenly went off at 3 am and we couldn't turn it off and it suddenly went off for no reason and then it came back on at 3.30. And what I found myself doing is just covering my ears and I had to go outside. It was so overwhelming.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:I had this sense as it was happening, like wow, so this is what it's like to have sensory overload. This is that experience, and I felt so helpless. I felt trapped too. I felt like I just have to be out of this house. It was panic, really. I don't know why that experience happened, but the experience was a good one for me to have to have that.
Speaker 2:Now imagine that you have that experience and it lasts two days to get over, or three days because your system has been so dysregulated by it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'd never thought of it. Even for two to three days it can be dysregulated. That's amazing. And then you have to function in the real world and act like you're fine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, very much. That's masking. We call that masking.
Speaker 1:Masking.
Speaker 2:Masking we have to mask, and masking takes an enormous amount of energy.
Speaker 1:Does that have anything to do with the social anxiety that people that often report that are autistic that they have? Is that part of it?
Speaker 2:I think masking if we define masking and it's not just neurodivergent people that have to mask, many neurotypical people have to mask too. We all have to mask at times but I think it is particularly demanded of, in many ways, for neurodivergent people, because we need to fit in and quite often I keep saying we, I'll talk about myself. Yeah, I think a common experience of autistic people and, again, adhders or DHDers, is that they don't feel like they fit in, so they work really hard to try to fit in.
Speaker 1:Sounds exhausting.
Speaker 2:It is exhausting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like going back to middle school you know that need to fit in and not be yourself and you know that time of your life but this doesn't stop for you I think as a younger man I would use alcohol to help me fit in and relax in social situations, certainly, whereas I'm really very poor at drinking alcohol now Too old for it, so I tend to avoid it more, and so there's one sort of chemical soothe that I could no longer use, so when in social situations it feels harder that I could no longer use, so when in social situations it feels harder.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, I was thinking what you said about that all people mask, but that if you are neurodivergent, that that is a different kind of mask. That really sounds like it's constant and exhausting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's all on.
Speaker 1:When you were talking about. Let's go back to the pathology. Just to turn back to that, tell us more about what, how, because I guess in America right now I'm not sure if it's the same in Great Britain, but you know there's a lot of talk about from Robert Kennedy, who is our person, who's in charge of health and human services and lots of, to me, misguiding information about autism.
Speaker 1:and then what causes autism? And here there's a lot of talk about the vaccines causing autism and autism. I think, even more language around pigeonholing everyone that's autistic cannot have a beautiful life, that they cannot keep a job. I mean, the generalizations that he has made have really taken our country back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, it's quite hilarious in many ways because you've got Elon Musk there, who's autistic.
Speaker 1:Exactly Right, right, and look at the brilliance of this man Keeping a job. I think he's kept a job, yeah he's been all right, I think. Yeah, he seems to be doing all right.
Speaker 2:He's kind of paying his bills, I think I think you know this idea that it's caused by a vaccine is utter nonsense. I think that the problem with neurodivergence in particular is it's not massively well understood, but there does seem to be a genetic link, so it's not uncommon to have some kind of neurodivergence running through a particular family.
Speaker 1:Yes, and we see that in our clients right.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and there are many, many hugely successful people who are neurodivergent as well. I mean Richard Branson is also scraped to living together.
Speaker 1:He's done well, hasn't he?
Speaker 2:He's done all right. I think Good that man's dyslexic. Yeah, so he's neurodivergent.
Speaker 1:May I say something, ian, about this? I just want our listeners to know that I was so impressed with you when we got to have fun together and also learn together in the Netherlands, because you have built a tremendous community in Manchester. That's impressive, and I know what it's like to try to build an Imago community here in an Imago desert. You know you've done such a beautiful job with that. That's so much around connecting and communicating. I think it's just amazing. Can you talk about how this idea, this belief, that is a myth, that people that are autistic can't do that, and yet look what you did.
Speaker 2:Well, I think that's something that we really need to establish, that to say that autistic people don't have empathy is, again, utter nonsense. It utter nonsense, in fact. I would say the opposite. Okay, that we have huge amounts of empathy and we are able to we finally tune to people. So to say that autistic people don't have empathy is crazy. I have so many therapist colleagues who are autistic or ADHD or ADHD. In fact, it's one of the. My belief is that many neurodivergent individuals are attracted to being psychotherapists and counsellors because it really fits with the way that we work in the world.
Speaker 1:Well.
Speaker 2:I just think I mean from my perspective. I'm very interested in people. I love to hear what's going on for them. Quite brutally honest. I'm very interested in people. I love to hear what's going on for them. Quite brutally honest, I'm very nosy, so I like to know what's going on in people's lives. I love to have the connection with people. As a therapist, I can structure my time really clearly so I know what I'm doing and when I'm doing it. I'm not working for anybody else, I'm not having to fit in with anybody else and in many ways there's lots of problem solving. So autistic and adhd people make really good therapists because we're good at seeing sort of the adhd is a brilliant of seeing that bigger picture and for autistic people we're great at pattern matching yeah, we can see patterns, we can see patterns where patterns in other places.
Speaker 2:In fact, I saw a TV program the other day on it's here in iPlayer with a guy called Chris Peckham looking at dyslexia, and GCHQ, which is the British Spy Center, is actively recruiting dyslexic people because they are brilliant at spotting patterns in data. So it's something like 70%. Their dyslexic recruitment is 70% higher than any other organization.
Speaker 1:Wonderful to recognize the giftedness with it. I mean, it's a really going back to. You know, my husband having ADHD, and that these neurodivergent behaviors actually are gifts. Like I've always said to him, when he focuses it is a superpower, like getting him away from what, like if he's on a project and he's taking something apart, it is almost impossible and yet it's so brilliant what he'll create. So you know, I've learned over 25 years how to really see it as a gift. But when I didn't understand it, I would say it was definitely coming in the middle of our relationship.
Speaker 2:And I think that's a really good point, kk, because actually our ability to hyper-focus and be really, call it monotropic we focus on what we just get stuck into one thing can be a benefit and a curse. And you know, when I really hyper-focus and really get into something, that's it, I'm away. I want to know everything about that thing, which is one of the reasons why I'm an embargo therapist. You know. I decided I loved it. I wanted to know more about it. So once I've decided I'm in, I'm in and I read every book, watch every video. That's it. The problem with that how that gets in the way of my relationships is that sometimes I'm so focused on my thing it's difficult for me to pull myself out, and that absolutely impacts my wife. When I do that, it's as if I disappear.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's an abandonment in, you know, in small ways. But if you've got abandonment issues from your past, it sure does trigger the where are you? You know?
Speaker 1:I want you to be with me and I can't reach you, and so I think that is, most of our gifts have the downside, the dark side as well. Right, all people. Whatever we think our gifts are, we can focus on those gifts, but we also need to be really sensitive. And how does that gift land on others? What is the impact? And that's really what you're speaking to.
Speaker 2:Much so, and I think I mean as far as talking about relationships and how neurodivergence impacts relationships. When I'm working with a neurodivergent couple, what I'm doing really is encouraging them to talk about these differences and have some acceptance of the differences, but also be able to stand back and see how those differences impact the relationship, because they absolutely will impact the relationship.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and as we both know, I mean I think it's fair to say that that can be at the very heart of the power struggle with a couple, because if they don't understand what's going on, like when I didn't understand, it would be like work comes first and I don't matter to you. And that impacted Kevin with feeling like there's something wrong with me and you know she's being critical of me and I know that it sounded that way and he experienced it that way. So, until couples can really first, as you said, identify, like what is going on with me, am I neurodivergent? Have I just not been diagnosed? Because, as you said, 53, for you to finally be able to put these pieces together is a big deal.
Speaker 2:Yes, I think so, and I think neurodivergence is massively under-diagnosed and unfortunately very misdiagnosed quite often.
Speaker 1:Tell me more about that, how it's misdiagnosed.
Speaker 2:People get diagnosed as bipolar, they get diagnosed as narcissistic. There are many, many different ways to label someone, and often these labels aren't correct at all. It's just that the individual's neurodivergent and their brain works differently.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and those labels can be devastating for people's lives.
Speaker 2:They have a huge impact. Yeah, and I think you know, also, from the perspective of being able to tune in, whether you're neurodivergent or not, I think what I notice is quite a few. I mean I pretty much solely work with neurodivergent clients. Most of my clients are neurodivergent, either ADHD, ADHD, autistic, I mean. Mean these are coming back to your point these are all highly successful individuals who are, who are very successful in their, let's say, business lives or whatever. But if you, if you think about when people get diagnosed, commonly for women, um, when menopause hits, so there's a there's a clear link between finding their neurodivergence more difficult to deal with in perimenopause and menopause and often, when their children are diagnosed maybe their kid is having a problem in school they're diagnosed as ADHD or autistic or whatever, and then suddenly there's a question about oh, where did that come from then and what's going on there?
Speaker 1:And I was like that as a kid. You know, I thought that was normal when I saw it in my kid because I had the same experience. And now at school, you're getting feedback from the school that this is atypical and that they want you to further investigate. You know what's really going on and I think that is so true that we my generation and I know you're younger than I am, but there wasn't any kind of I remember people saying he's the absent-minded professor, whatever that meant, you know really distracted, but we didn't have the awareness that we have now.
Speaker 1:You know, you said something really important about autism being underdiagnosed, and I think that there is a perception in at least in the United States, that it's overdiagnosed and that that's sort of the tie-in with the vaccines, that the reason we have more autistic people is because more people have had vaccines. Not only isn't that that's not true, but it also sort of is like well, don't give your kids vaccines because, god forbid, they'd be autistic, and what you're bringing to the surface is you know, if your child's autistic, let's talk about what's possible.
Speaker 2:Well, it's, it's, um, it's talking about. If your kid is autistic, then let's celebrate their difference and support them. In that there's nothing wrong with being autistic. I like being autistic. I am me and being autistic is part of who I am. So, yeah, coming away from the idea that you I don't know it flabbergasts me that people would, and especially with the whole thing in the States around vaccines and the like. I mean there's a little element of there has been in the past elements of that in the UK, but that's not a thing here.
Speaker 1:Because you believe in science.
Speaker 2:Yes, we believe in science. I think the other piece that you were talking about there, coco, is this idea that it's over-diagnosed. Well, actually, we've only just started to diagnose people properly.
Speaker 1:Yes, and that was my thought. You know, you were 53 when you were 18 or 25. What did they know really about autism at that time?
Speaker 2:Probably not much, and certainly when I was at school, very, very little, and it was still coming from a pathology paradigm, right. So in those days particularly, but still now, it's looked as well what's wrong with this person? Well, there's nothing wrong with them. They just function differently and unfortunately, the world has not been set up for neurodivergent individuals.
Speaker 1:So let's help our listeners. Let's say that you, or both of you, are neurodivergent and you're really struggling in your couplehood, but you're really not sure where to go or what to do. I think it would be helpful to talk about what you do with couples. You did say that you have them really dialogue about their differences and help each other understand what's going on with me, what's going on with you, how your behavior impact me and how does my reaction impact you. What else can couples do when they're listening to this podcast today? What do you think are three takeaways that they can bring home and just begin to investigate?
Speaker 2:I think the first one would have to be to ensure that they do not treat neurodivergent traits as problems that need fixing.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, they're just realities.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so the first thing is absolutely to not treat the neurodivergent traits as some sort of pathology, that they are just differences.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, very much. You got me. And it's looking at which behaviors may be around neurodivergence, which behaviors may originate in childhood. Right, who knows, you may not even be able to tell the difference and maybe it doesn't really matter, but to appreciate that, yes, being neurodivergent is going to impact the relationship.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So the awareness of it, that it is going to impact the relationship and that, whether it comes from childhood or it's a neurodivergent behavior, maybe it doesn't matter so much. Really, that knowing that this is impacting our relationship and it sounds too like just not judging it just because that's happening with every couple, that childhood or our communication style, our conflict behaviors, they're all interfaced in that couplehood and you said it so well at the beginning that where this really has shown up for you in your life is in your most intimate relationship with your lovely wife. So I would agree 100%. In our relationship it has been the same thing that it shows up in our conflicts and then it only amplifies the childhood stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think at this point it's probably really important to talk about the double empathy problem.
Speaker 1:All right, tell us about that.
Speaker 2:Damien Milton came up with this idea of double empathy problem, and the double empathy problem, basically, is let's imagine an autistic person is talking to a neurotypical person and the autistic person doesn't understand. Well, the assumption is well, that's because you're autistic, okay. And then let's swap that over. And so the autistic person is talking to the neurotypical person and the neurotypical person doesn't understand. Well, the assumption is well, that's because you're autistic. And we get stuck. We get stuck straight away in. It's back to this pathology paradigm that the problem is the neurodivergent person. Actually, the problem is that they're speaking two different languages, that they have different operating systems, that they see the world in a different way, and this is actually the essential core of a Margot relationship therapy. You know what we're talking about is two human beings are very different. This is what Harville says all the time. You do understand that your partner is different to you, don't you?
Speaker 1:You mean he can't be just like me? If he could be just like me, we could be happy.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and this is the thing, though, with neurodivergence. It's very easy to make the neurodivergent person wrong and label oh well, it's because you're autistic, or it's because you're all DHD or whatever. We need to move away from that and understand that there are different communication styles for all relationships, regardless of neurodiversity, and actually it's more useful to look at how the couple can accommodate each other, adapt the relationship to support each other and love each other, rather than expecting one person neurodivergent or neurotypical to fundamentally change the way they operate.
Speaker 1:You know this idea right of really when how many couples come into our office? If you could just fix her, we'd be fine, because she's the one with the problem. And then with when you add neurodivergence to this issue, I would imagine it feels like this that the you know the neurotypical person is up here and that that has to. I'm wondering if that has to really set off the imbalance in the power struggle.
Speaker 2:It's a really impactful piece. Coco, I see you know, as an embargo supervisor I see a lot of work with couples from my supervisees and where there is a neurodivergent person and a neurotypical person, it's often assumed that the neurodivergent person is the problem, and not by the therapist, but often by their partner. And if only they would change, then this will be sorted. And unfortunately, if you've grown up neurodivergent, you've had that message your entire life, so you think you're the problem as well. So it's compounded. Really, both people are in full agreement it's the neurodivergent person that's the problem and unfortunately that just isn't the case yeah, absolutely well.
Speaker 1:I've really really enjoyed talking to you today and I feel more educated about neurodiversity than I was an hour ago, and so I so appreciate your time. I feel like there's a lot more to talk about here, and I want to just highlight for our listeners that, again about this more people are being diagnosed with autism the myth. More people are being diagnosed with cancer.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:More people are being diagnosed with autoimmune disorders. I think we have to just look at the more we know, the more we're able to help people. Being part of being quiet about this and not debunking the myths is adding to the collusion of believing that there's something wrong with neurodivergent people, and I feel like we must get that message out that this is something that we celebrate about our children, our spouses, our friends, and really being honest and asking questions Like I love that you asked me what you need today and having these many contracts with each other, like sometimes I'm not going to know, ian and.
Speaker 1:I hope that you know that I give you full permission to say, when things don't land right, or especially around languaging, I want you to be able to tell me, when I don't get it right, that I want to, because you know it's that idea of you mean more to me than whatever the problem is. So but I think we have to speak like that, honestly and call things out, versus just kind of assuming that's just this about that person or and really getting curious about how our loved ones are receiving us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I really like that. I fully agree.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, thank you again for being with us and I want to thank you because it's been the first episode in a while. I've taken a little hiatus, you know. There's been a lot of traveling and teaching and I've really missed the podcast because I have so much fun interviewing our faculty members and other therapists and just learning more about each person's real specialty. We have such a gifted faculty and you're a gift to us, ian.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much, keiko, and thank you very much for having me on. I really enjoyed it. It's nice talking to you about this, and giving an autistic man an opportunity to monologue about one of his favorite subjects is always.
Speaker 1:We can't really get enough of it because we really need to get educated. So thanks again.
Speaker 1:And thank you to our listeners. Thank you for being with Ian and I today on the Relationship Blueprint. We are very excited We'll be having another episode coming up with. The topic is going to be around depression in the bedroom and how depression impacts us in relationships, and that is with Trish Sanders, and that will be in a few weeks, so we look forward to having you back. Thank you for listening. We have 350 cities and over 34 countries that are following the blueprint, and I think it's because we're all hungry for more information about how to make our relationships better, and so we'll see you next time on the Relationship Blueprint. Thank you.
