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The Relationship Blueprint: Unlock Your Power of Connection
Colleen is a student of Dr. Harville Hendrix and Dr. Helen LaKelly Hunt who created the Imago Theory and have brought this work to over 50 countries around the world. She is profoundly influenced by this belief shared by Dr. Harville Hendrix. He said, "We are born in relationship, wounded in relationship and healed in relationship."
What are you struggling with today? Colleen believes that almost any problem we have began with a broken or unhealed relationship. The anxiety or deep sadness we feel often began with unresolved issues in our relationships with our parents, partner, family or friends. When we have unmet needs we are programed to get those needs met. When we don't get what we need we protest by protecting ourselves. this often looks like defensive, critical, demanding behaviors. these behaviors are most often ineffective. As a result we may develop unhealthy relationship with food, sex, gambling our or a substance.
Colleen invites world renown relationship specialists from all over the world to help her guests explore their own relationships and see their problems through a relational lens. She will help us explore how to create intimacy to deepen our connections. Her listeners will gain insights to create a more joyful life.
Colleen is a Licensed Professional Counselor in the state of South Carolina, a certified, Advanced Imago Clinical therapist, a clinical instructor for the Imago International Trading Institute while maintaining her clinical practice in Hilton Head Island, South Carolina.
Thank you for joining Colleen today. Remember, don't let life happen to you. You can be the architect of your relationships. Join her next time on the Relationship Blueprint; Unlock Your Power of Connection.
Contact Colleen at colleen@hiltonheadislandcounseling.com for questions or to be a guest on the show!
The Relationship Blueprint: Unlock Your Power of Connection
Death, Divorce, and Goldfish: A Surprisingly Hopeful Conversation with Kim Mackey-Pearson
Therapist Kim Mackey-Pearson brings deep wisdom and compassion to grief counseling, helping individuals navigate loss while discovering pathways toward healing and hope. Kim creates safe spaces where people can honor their pain, reconnect with themselves, and reimagine life after grief.
• Kim's journey into grief counseling began in middle school when selected for a program teaching children about death
• Hospice work allowed Kim to witness more peaceful, caring end-of-life experiences
• Grief extends beyond death to include retirement, divorce, identity changes, and physical limitations
• Children need space to process grief rather than being shielded from funeral rites and discussions
• The best thing to say to someone grieving: "I have no words, just know I'm here for you"
• "Grief groceries" (comfort foods delivered) offer practical support when someone is grieving
• Include children in conversations about death early - even a goldfish with limited lifespan provides learning opportunity
• Prepare for end-of-life by documenting your wishes to ease burden on family members
• The "NOK Box" organizes important information for next of kin after death
If you're experiencing grief, reach out to Kim at kampcounseling@gmail.com or find her on Psychology Today.
Thank you for joining me today on the Relationship Blueprint. Remember, don't let life happen to you. You can be the architect of your relationships. So join me next time on the Relationship Blueprint; Unlock Your Power of Connection.
Contact Colleen at colleen@hiltonheadislandcounseling.com for questions or to be a guest on the show!
Hello everybody and welcome back to the Relationship Blueprint, where you unlock your power of connection. And today I'm joined by Kim Mackey-Pearson. Kim is a gifted therapist here on Hilton Head Island who brings deep wisdom, compassion and a lot of love to her work. Who specializes in grief counseling, helping individuals and families navigate the heartbreak of loss while discovering new pathways towards healing and hope. In her practice, kim creates a safe, grounded space where people can honor their pain, reconnect with themselves and begin to reimagine life after loss. She understands that grief is not something to get over, but rather a sacred journey that can transform relationships with loved ones, with community and with ourselves, and I'm so grateful that Kim is here today. She's also a friend and a tennis buddy and so much more. So happy to be with you, kim. Thanks for having me, coco. This is a great thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's such an important topic you and I have talked about this before that I think it's such kind of in the shadows and right. People don't really want to talk about it unless it's part of their current experience.
Speaker 1:So I so appreciate your work.
Speaker 2:Can you tell us a little bit how you became a grief counselor? Way back when, when I actually all goes all the way back to middle school, I was a kiddo that was picked from my English teacher's class. She was in a graduate program and was developing a curriculum to teach children about death and dying. And I remember I had to go home with my permission slip because we were going to talk about death and dying and so there were 10 of us in the group and we did, we made it experiential. We, you know, we did grave rubbings and we went into a funeral home and wrote our own obituaries. I think I was probably I don't know 12, 13 years old. The teacher kind of made this curriculum very accessible, not scary, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:The opportunity to go to a private high school where they offered a death and dying class, and I found that interesting. And then a liberal arts college where you can make your own major. So I made my own major in thanatological studies and kind of looked at death from a psychological, a sociological or religious perspective, just because it was an interest of mine. When I got out of college I did a lot of work with hospice care in all different kinds of realms, you know, from volunteer coordinator to bereavement coordinator, to all different kinds of things, and just in and out, and then went down a massage therapy path about 20 years ago and then got trained in massage therapy for hospice clients. So it's always just kind of been an outlier for me. It's always just been my thing, it's always been easy for me to discuss, it's always been easy for me to journey with people who are either dying themselves or have a family member that's dying or something like that. So it's just always kind of been my thing.
Speaker 2:Then I got the opportunity to go to graduate school about nine years ago and get my degree in counseling, which I never lived near a place that I could do that, even though I kind of always wanted to. So I took that opportunity and so I've been in private practice now for about six years I think. And, like you said, in the area it's if people, like a lot of counselors aren't, aren't comfortable with it and I get that Like there's a lot of topics that other counselors deal with that I'm not comfortable with. So it's nice that we have this community here in Hilton Head and people know that if somebody is having a particular issue with grief or something they usually send them my way, which is lovely.
Speaker 1:Yes, kim, I think that you're known as the grief counselor, and so we appreciate having you to refer people to, for you know, for all the reasons you've just described your history, I never knew all that. Yeah, amazing. I really is amazing that in middle school, a teacher made this less mysterious and more part of life the way she approached it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, kudos to her. I've tried to find her name. Yeah, I had to go back and find out who she was. She's still alive, but I haven't been successful.
Speaker 1:You haven't found her.
Speaker 2:So you also said some other really, I think, important things that many, even therapists that you know they it's not their field and this rich history, especially with hospice patients. Can you talk a little bit more about that, with your experience with people who are dying? Yeah, when I was in undergrad, elizabeth Kubler-Ross was kind of on her zenith. So my friends in college would follow the Grateful Dead and I would follow Elizabeth Kubler-Ross. We got to go around and see her speak a lot of times and it really was kind of this emerging thing that people were starting to look for hospice care at the end of their lives, for a better way of dying, more with dignity and with more autonomy and a peaceful thing at home, and I just really liked that idea.
Speaker 2:And so there were different hospices that I got affiliated with and was able to sit with people which is such a privilege at the end of their lives and help family members through it.
Speaker 2:And anecdotally, you know, I just saw that that was just such a much more peaceful, caring, loving way.
Speaker 2:You know, I'm not against if somebody wants to go to the hospital and their life there or whatever they want to do, but it was just at that time it was just new and novel enough to have people have a choice that they could go to. And so there was a hospice in my area where I went to college and my thesis was to start a college in my small or start a hospice in my small town. And it just was a thing that I wanted an option for people. You know it's not the best option for everyone and it's not it doesn't fit for everybody, but it's nice to know that it's there for the people that do want it.
Speaker 2:And just I just kind of weaved in and out of different everywhere I lived. I always just kind of found the hospice and volunteered with them or, like I said, just got in some sort of administrative role or whatever, just because it was something that was the work I wanted to do. So it worked, it just worked out. But it is a real privilege to be with people at that time of their lives, be with family as they help their loved one transition, and just just speaks to me.
Speaker 1:As I was listening to you share I, I had this sense within me like and I know you can, but even if I didn't, if I was just listening to you talk about this process and your journey, you know there's this respect for death, there's this honoring of this thing that happens and will happen to all of us that you share, but also it mirrors such a deep respect for life.
Speaker 1:You know, and I think that's one of the things we often miss about when people talk about death or grief and it's a little uncomfortable for many people to talk about, even just in normal conversations. They don't know what to say. Right, somebody dies and you know I'm so sorry, or we'll talk about that in a minute all the things that people say when someone dies that they might want to rethink, but they really are uncomfortable and it sounds like you, from an early age, just found a deep respect for the process and also, conversely, really a respect for life. They really get it.
Speaker 2:It's very affirming, you know to, to be able to end one's life. I mean cause? You said it spot on that's the only thing that we are all going to do. You know they joke about the only, the only two things were death and taxes. Well, there are a lot of people that get out of paying their taxes. Nobody gets out of death. We all are going to experience it and that's the.
Speaker 2:That's the thing that always bounces around in my head is like why did this? Isn't a shared experience that we all are going to go through, either with a loved one, but definitely for ourselves, and we just don't talk about it. You know, we just don't share with each other and you're right, there are. We're not given the tools. There are a lot of things that we don't teach our kids that are kind of life lessons, and this is this is still one of them. I mean, there are still families that shield children from funeral rites or rituals or whatever that kids just aren't allowed to be a part of. And kids are so intuitive and kids are so necessary for that journey, you know, and we just don't communicate it to them and it really stunts us as adults you know, yeah, so important.
Speaker 1:And when you were talking about the children, I think you're so right that there's this instinct for parents to want to protect their kids from a lot of things. Right, we don't. We don't want them to have too much social media, we don't want them to have too much, too much. But death, too, is one of those things that people do shield their children from, and yet they may lose a grandparent, they may lose a parent, they may lose a child at school. They didn't even really know, but now everybody's talking about this, this child that has left us. So what do you do? You work with children, kim, or how do you handle that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, primarily my practice is really built around adults, usually people in I call it the stage three of life. You know, 60 and above kind of thing is those are the people that usually are losing a spouse or have lost a child or, definitely, you know, parents and stuff. I only deal with kids that are bereaved. I don't deal with kids in any other capacity in my practice, but if a child has lost a grandparent or a parent or a pet, then I will see them in my practice and it's more of a creative arts kind of thing. We do a lot of drawing, we do a lot of talking. I let them tell their story about the loved one that passed and just kind of let them Really it's all just kind of about normalizing and it's just like, wow, you know, grandpa sounds really special, tell me about him. I didn't get a chance to meet him before he died and it's just the chance because they're getting a message, a very hushed message, usually at the kindest, you know.
Speaker 2:Sometimes kids are told well, we're not talking about it, you know, or whatever. It's very abrupt, but at the very even, in its kindest moments, it's just like we don't want to hear about it. They see their parent getting sad because they're bringing up grandpa, because that may be the parent's father, and you know they don't want to make parents sad, they don't want to make anybody sad, and so they pick up on this notion that it's something we don't talk about. So usually if we have a like a support group for kiddos, or if if I just see a kiddo that's having a tough time with it, it's more of just letting them tell their story and making it. You know, this is what happens. Stuff happens. This is one of the things that happens.
Speaker 1:I think it's so important that you're doing that, kim, because just creating that safe space that's just for them, because, having lost a grandson in 2015, we were all adults and so if there had been a child in the house, I can't imagine, you know, the five adults that were grieving and then having a child there. We were not healthy Like we. Just we were all going through our own pain in very different ways, and so I think what you're giving children, or anyone that comes to your space, is their own space for grief, because it's such a. It's a lonely journey for me, as was.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we're, and we you know. Parents just don't sometimes know what to do. They see their child grieving. They don't know what grief looks like. They don't know I guess it's different for everyone and they just don't know what to do with it. We're not open about it.
Speaker 1:Are you familiar with the book Tear Soup?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's a great book. We use Tear Soup. We read Fall of Freddy the Leaf. There's a lot of great material out there. There's a lot of really nice. You know, every little kiddo usually gets a journal book that they can write in and, depending on their age, and just a place to put their thoughts.
Speaker 1:I really love that, Kim. So when we think about grief, we typically think about death. You talk about grief and how you see it in other areas of your practice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I approach I probably side on the other side of it. To me, any kind of loss is an opportunity for grief. So, as you know, we have a lot of people that come to this beautiful space from their life, wherever they are coming from, and they think that they're moving to the beach and they're retiring and they're having this lovely life and it, for the most part, that works. But they're also leaving a lifetime of friends. They're leaving a job that they may have had for 30 years. They're leaving their family and friends and everything, and that's a loss and that has to be grieved and any type of loss needs to have the space for you to process the emotions that come with grief. Like I didn't know this would hit me so hard and I didn't know that I would miss my friends so much or my whatever group, and those are losses and any kind of loss needs to be grief.
Speaker 2:I see folks that have gone through divorce. That's the loss of a marriage. I see folks that have lost either a part of their identity. I see a lot of people that have lost their ability to do the things that they used to do. I mean, if you're walking with a walker now, you've lost that ability to just up and go and pop in the car and go to Target and so it's a whole thing of how to assimilate that loss into your life.
Speaker 2:I don't think, I think a lot of people don't think about that. They think they think of the positive stuff, which there is a lot of positive stuff that goes along, but there is this, this underlying sense of grief, of mourning the things that need the attention, that they need to mourn what they're walking away from.
Speaker 1:I think what you're saying. I really hope our listeners are really taking this in, because what you've described I mean we started with end of life but what you're describing is really all stages of life that we grieve. You know, I have a dear friend who's all three of her kids will be in college this year and the empty nest, and so the grief is heavy around you know, who am I now without kids at home and that stage of life. And then what you were talking about was retirement and you know that loss of identity too, that yes, I'm going to this beautiful place or I don't have to work anymore, and there is that, that relief for a lot of people. But there's also I had a client the other day who has such an exciting adventure ahead of her for her retirement. I mean involves Europe and I mean amazing things and yet the fear is, when I give up my job, who will I be? So that's really an important part of the journey.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And that brings up the fact that you know we're a capitalist society, you know we're tied, and nobody says, you know. When somebody says, well, what do you do? A lot of people start that sentence in response I am, you know, I'm a therapist, I am, whatever you know, and so it's, it's tied into that identity because of our, of our culture and our society. It's not like, oh, I do therapy, it's not anything I do, it's I am, it's an identity and that's just cultural, you know, and every culture has its way of dealing with loss and grief and that we set ourselves up for. Oh, I'm not that anymore.
Speaker 1:What am?
Speaker 2:I. You make a good point of you know I'm not this anymore. Now, what am I?
Speaker 1:Yes, and I love the question because what you just said is how most people in our culture think what am I? But instead of who am I?
Speaker 1:you know, and it is. It is our culture and it requires a shift because, hopefully, we have built lives that were not only our career, but those people who are professionals and have had, I think, a lot of, maybe accolades, positive reinforcement about the work they do, for example, your work is so important. And then if, for some reason, you couldn't do that anymore, you know it is a big transition. So will I still be accepted, will I still be admired? Who will I be?
Speaker 1:And we live in a community where I've played golf poorly, but I've played golf with people and I'm like, oh my gosh, they've had such exciting lives, like when you ask off with people and I'm like, oh my gosh, they've had such exciting lives. Like when you ask, what did you do before you came here? And? And they have these amazing careers and yet you know you would never know it all their stories that they have to share. And I think that's also part of the grieving processes. You know I want to tell my story of. You know, if you have older parents, they want to keep telling stories of their parents and experiences they had. And I think that you know our culture isn't so patient with that process when we need to listen to them and their stories.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's all that people want is to just be heard. That's the basic of anything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and valued right. Yeah, you also really talked about people going through divorce and I think this is a big grief journey, uh, and could you tell us more about the people that you've worked with that are going through divorce? How do they react when you tell them they might be grieving?
Speaker 2:yeah, it, it might be yeah, well, I usually start out very because it's such an emotional topic in our culture grief hits right to the heart, you know. So I kind of because I've just met these folks and they don't know me from Adam is I kind of do a little. You know the knowledge bombs. You know it's like okay, well, you know the knowledge bombs. You know it's like okay, well, you know the conventional wisdom or the research shows, or blah, blah, blah, that you are in the midst of a loss. You know the person is still walking the earth, but you know this is a loss of your X amount of years of being with this person. Let's process that. And then I very rudimentarily go through.
Speaker 2:There's a you know there's the stages of grieving, and not that they're linear and or or that everybody goes through them, but I'll kind of touch base. Like you know, one of the stages is anger. You know, are you angry? Some people are, some people aren't. You know, one of the stages is, you know, depressed Is this. Is this sad for you? Are you depressed by this? One of the stages is depressed. Is this sad for you? Are you depressed by this? One of the stages is bargaining, if you're like, well, if I had only blah, blah, blah and we talk about it more on the intellectual level. That's the way I handle it is. I kind of get into the grief part more from like what's your head telling you? This marriage, for whatever reasons, it's breaking up and there's a myriad of reasons why you know what's your reason and what are the emotions that are caught up with it. And I kind of do it intellectually first because that's easier for them.
Speaker 2:And yet at the heart, of it it's just like it's hard to wake up and either be in a different house or not have that person next to you anymore, whatever what's that like for you. And then we kind of touch on that and stuff like that because divorce is a loss. They still walk the earth, but it's a whole different shift in a lifestyle, as a death is. It's a whole different shift in how we view ourselves. Again, the loss of I was a wife or I was a husband, now what am I? I was a partner to this person, for I was somebody's significant other. What do I do now? Kind of thing.
Speaker 1:And who gets custody of the friends Because of the couples work that I do. Sadly, part of my journey with couples is that sometimes they decide, or one decides, that they still they want to leave.
Speaker 1:They've done their work, but they don't have the energy anymore to invest in the relationship and the person that is being left behind or the person that leaves. They're both grieving and I like to look at it as the unlived life. We thought that we'd retire together. We talked about I don't know, moving to Augusta and we were going to have a cottage that was simple, where the grandchildren could come. Like all these dreams, it's the loss of the dream. So I think what you're really doing as far as the service is so important and I hope our listeners, especially those in our region and anybody in South Carolina because do you do virtual I do do virtual.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, ideally it's because it's such a raw topic you know, I'm so sure there aren't.
Speaker 2:I mean, there's a lot of counseling work that gets done. That isn't raw, but this is very raw, and so usually the first couple, I like to kind of be in the same space with people. But yeah, I do do telehealth for this and, like I said, one of the things too is to try and make this more of. We used to just go like she has cancer, we used to not talk about so, but now cancer is out of the shadows and we talk about it. And what kind of what are? What treatment are you getting? And I really kind of.
Speaker 2:You know, 45 years ago, when I started this work, I really thought that it would progress a lot more quickly, that people would be more open to talk about death, dying, what, what your thoughts were, blah, blah. It hasn't progressed since then, right, but I have hopes for it that we will be able to, you know, walk into spaces and be and be more comfortable about being around people who have had a loss, whether it's a divorce or whether it's, you know, I don't know I had to. I had to sell my mother's grand piano.
Speaker 2:There's just loss in everything. I get it that that's my bias. I kind of see the world through that lens. But you know, everything comes with a loss. It may be a great gain, but sometimes you have to lose something in order to gain something. Like your friend is going off to Europe, I mean that's a fabulous thing. Lose something in order to gain something. Like your friend is going off to Europe, I mean that's a fabulous thing. But if they were still in a marriage and they are still had those kind of commitments that wouldn't be happening.
Speaker 2:So it's kind of thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and they, you know, grieving the children that will be in the US and my being a bad parent because I'm leaving the country, even though they're in their 20s. But you know, it's all. It's all. As you said, it's such a big deal to change. Change is hard. Change is so hard. And when you said you have a bias around this, I I totally agree with you. I think that it the problem is not seeing these things as losses and then expecting us to just get over them. Like he was an awful guy. Thank God you're divorcing him.
Speaker 1:And so there's this sort of I think reaction that you're supposed to then be happy about that, and so when you're not happy about it even though maybe you needed to get divorced, nobody knows you're grieving too, Right, Right.
Speaker 2:Because not everything's all bad.
Speaker 1:No, it's not. They're sharing children and they don't have their children 100% of the time when they go through divorce. So there's lots of grief around all of those topics. I feel like there should be a book the Things People Say and Shouldn't Say when Someone Dies, that uncomfortability that you've talked about, that people don't normalize death so easily. Will you talk a little bit more about that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's funny because whenever I start up a bereavement group, one of the icebreakers is telling me the most ridiculous thing that somebody has told you, walked up to you and said in this process and oh my gosh, they're such doozies but a lot of that you've got to kind of extend some grace. It's ignorant people do ignorant things. And if you're not educated or you're not cultured or you don't know what to say or how to say it, there really aren't any shoulds or shouldn'ts, but it's a hard thing to grapple. It is our biggest fear. You know, when somebody's spouse dies, if you are spoused, you know you're like oh my God, that's my biggest nightmare is that my spouse won't be here, like you know. So it's. It brings up a lot of emotions for people.
Speaker 2:I always tell people the best thing that you can say is just like. I have no words, just know I'm here for you. That's, that's the blanket. I have no words, just know I'm here for you. And because people do say some crazy stuff and they're mean, well, and they it comes from a place of wanting to help. But, like I said, ignorant people do ignorant things. And if you don't know and if you haven't been taught that or you haven't experienced it or you haven't say hey, you know, the most comforting thing that somebody said to me when my spouse died was this you know, but everybody's different. I always just kind of encourage people that they're like I don't know if I want to go to the calling hours because I never know what to say. I'll say well, you don't need to say anything, just go up and say I have no words, I'm just here for you and I love you.
Speaker 1:All people want it. You know, I have one of my mentors at Princeton. She's just one of the most amazing people and I was in some training and she was telling all of us you know, your presence is enough, Just your presence. Show up, yeah, show up, be there and you don't have to say much because they can feel your energy of wanting to be there. I think the anxiety of feeling like you have to say something is obviously a real thing for people. However, I love what you're sharing is you know, just I'm here for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're not a society that is good with silence. We always feel like we have to fill the space. And sometimes it's just like I'm here for you and if you just sit next to somebody and just hold their hand while they weep, or just stare off into space with them or go for a walk or you know, just be there, be present in this moment of grief, that's really all people need really is to just be walked with, journeyed with you know, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm thinking back to when our grandson died and the wonderful things that people did that like pop out in my head. One of our friends who's owned a restaurant on the island just showed up, rang the doorbell, had food from like two different other restaurants and didn't talk, just knew the house was filled with pain, brought the food and left. Someone else did flowers for the table at the service and someone said you know, coco would absolutely want flowers and I didn't. I wasn't thinking so. They did things that I would have wanted to do, but you're not in your right mind when you're. Well, I was not in my right mind. Maybe other people are, but just those simple gestures were so important and they didn't have to tell me anything. They said everything with their actions.
Speaker 2:And one of the wonderful things that has come out of COVID is that you can send groceries to somebody through Instacart. So there's this thing called grief groceries, where just the copious amounts of fat and sugar comfort food, you know just, you just Instacart, you deliver it to the house the Oreos, the mac and cheese, the you know, easy to throw in the oven or easy to throw in the microwave meals, and you just send it with a note that here's some grief groceries and that's like.
Speaker 1:everything has its upside, and that's one of the upsides of covid was, uh, we figured out how to send groceries to people I really love that, kim, especially when you're far away and you're yeah, I don't even they restaurant gift certificate like, so they don't have to cook, right, but this is a beautiful idea.
Speaker 2:Yeah, grief, groceries are having their moment. Right now they're having their moment.
Speaker 1:I love that. Is there anything that we haven't touched on that you want to say to our listeners about grief? I think it's more of just.
Speaker 2:I've always been an advocate, since the very beginning, of including kids and making it because you know, as we progress through the life cycle and develop, you know, if you're exposed to this whole concept earlier, the earlier the better. They always used to say when we were doing stuff was like buy a kid, a goldfish Goldfish have a really limited lifespan. And then you know the goldfish is going to die and kind of go through that like, oh you know, goldie died. What does that say to you? You know what do you think? And kids will come up with some really great stuff and I'll just I'm all about making stuff normal.
Speaker 2:You know it's just what happens and kids kind of find their space in it, find how they feel about it. It brings up their fears. You know what do you mean. They go in the ground. You know questions will come out of it. Some questions you have that are out of left field. You're like, wow, I didn't even think about that. But just get to talk about it, because it's always easier to talk about things when it's not imminent. I'm also a huge advocate of people preparing for how they want their lives to end.
Speaker 2:Your life is going to end one way or the other. I joke my hubby once the Altman brothers played at his funeral. The Altman brothers, to me, will always be that. It will always be a thing. Let people know what is important to you at the end of your life.
Speaker 2:Some people want to have their heads cryogenically frozen so that they never die, and when they figure out how to bring us all back, they'll do that. That's great. Other people are like don't know, no means whatever to prolong my life. I don't want to live that kind of life. But have a say because I've seen too many times.
Speaker 2:Usually if somebody picks hospice, they're pretty, they're pretty reconciled and the family is pretty reconciled. But if it's, if it's not, if it's something that comes up suddenly, or mom declines really quickly. I've just also seen it where one kid wants mom to go on the respirator, one kid wants mom to just go peacefully and the other kid just wants them to stop fighting. So come to some sort of peace with it or at least know what your loved ones want. Have the discussion now, when it's not imminent, and so you can say hey, when mom was visiting me last summer, she really just said that she never wanted to be on a feeding tube and then you'd be like then the family can go. Oh God, we don't have to make that decision, because we know what mom wanted.
Speaker 1:Yeah that's really good.
Speaker 2:Kim, talk about it. That's my big thing is just talk about it. I mean, I used to use the joke that in college, if I wanted to continue a conversation with people, I told them I was a psychology major, and if I didn't want to continue a conversation with them, I told them I was a death and dying major. And it's still that way today. We don't want to talk about it, but we really kind of need to.
Speaker 1:And I think what you just shared. I was listening to NPR the other day and there was a man who talked about how he actually has everything written down from the scripture that he wanted and he said I want to make this easy on the people that I leave behind because I know they're going to miss me, and he really took this beautiful responsibility, not only for what he wanted for his service and the details, but he really helped the kids not have to make those decisions all of them. You know, as you just said, if you have more than one child, you probably are going to have more than one opinion about what should happen, and taking that off the table so that they can be in grief and not be, I guess, sideways about what to do, is so beautiful. What a gift to your children. I don't want to really end with this, but it really is a great idea that you brought to our book club. Do you want to talk about the knockbox?
Speaker 2:you brought to our book club. Do you want to talk about the knockbox? Sure, my shameless plug for knockbox. It's on that same thing, as there is a there's and, and I just have I'm not I'm not a paid representative, I just found you know that really helpful and since I see people, mostly people that are in the last stage of their lives, there is a thing out there it's called the knockbox, it's for the next of kin and okay, and it just walks you through everything that you need to let your person who's going to be around after you pass.
Speaker 2:What to do? Yeah, from nuts to bolts, just A to B, like everything when the deed to the house is, where the car keys are, where this that they can just walk into your house and it's in a box and it's straightforward. This is where everything is. This is who you contact at the bank, this is who you contact at the funeral home, because I've already prepaid for everything and it just makes it so much easier. So I always, when I'm dealing with my older folks and stuff in practices, I just throw it out there. So I always, you know, when I'm, when I'm dealing with my older folks and stuff in practices, I just I just throw it out there. A lot of them are already. They think they're organized enough. And I say this now no matter how organized you think you are, you've forgotten something.
Speaker 1:It's such a gift again, a way to take some of that pressure. They're going to have to go through your things and you know who gets this picture and all, all of the things that are not in a knock box. They have all that to do. So making the logistics simple is such a gift and, kim, you're such a gift.
Speaker 1:Oh thanks, coco. I learned more about you today. I really loved our discussion so much, so interesting, so interesting how your journey from such a young age has brought you to this point and being able to bring this to people and be able to help them heal through this very difficult process. I really I agree with you.
Speaker 2:Thank you. I'm so glad you're doing this too. It's been fun to listen to your podcasts and learn different stuff that I never knew, I didn't know.
Speaker 1:It is. I think. There's so many podcasts out there and this really came from my heart. I had a dream about doing something. How do we get this information out to more people? Therapy is not always accessible. It's not affordable.
Speaker 1:And yet my experience with my training and yours is that if we can share what we've learned in our journey and give that for free to people who don't have access or knowledge, then we can really make a big difference in their lives. And so that's the birthplace. But I was walking and Margie Smith, I was telling her about my dream that I had this podcast, and she held my feet to the fire and she did not let go of me until I said I did it. I did it. I didn't believe. Yeah, well, you have to have a friend that kind of sometimes holds your feet to the fire. So if you have a dream, be careful who you tell. So I'm not going to tell Margie. Tell Margie your dream. Well, this has been wonderful, Kim, and I hope that our listeners will learn more about you. So where do they find you? Let's talk about that. That's great.
Speaker 2:Thank you. I have a private practice here in Bluffton, south Carolina. The email is. The best way to probably get it to me is email, which is camp, my, just my initials, k A, p counseling at Gmail. That's the easiest way. I have the standard psychology today thing. They can go on psychology today and find me. That's about it.
Speaker 2:I kind of shy away from social media, even more so in the last few years. So I don't have an Insta, I don't have a, I don't have a, I don't have a website, mostly, you know, because of this topic. I really am a believer of the universe sends you the people that you need to see and when you need to see them. And I just get people who are word of mouth, people who I've helped them through their grief journey will say to a friend you know, hey, when I was grieving or when I went through the thing with my husband, blah, blah, blah. Then they tell a friend, and then they tell a friend, and that's usually how it goes, because then they're very you know, I'm just not getting somebody who's throwing a dart at the wall. It's somebody who's been been through the journey with me and they've, they've told somebody who's also going through the journey too, and they've told somebody who's also going through the journey too.
Speaker 1:Well, I hope that we can get this out in our area to many more people, and even if you're not in our area now, you may be thinking about how do I want to choose a therapist that's going to help me through my divorce or my father's death or whatever your grieving process is retirement, mother's death or whatever your grieving process is retirement and I think, kim, you've given us a great example of the kind of therapist that I would want to come see if I was going through a grieving process and you really want to find the right person, whatever is going on with you, so that you can actually move through your therapy and it isn't a forever process, it really isn't. I mean, sometimes people don't come to therapy because they think, oh my God, people in therapy stay there for life and ideally that's not the plan, ideally, that you come with something you want to share and process and you get to find someone like Kim who's going to help you do that. So thank you Kim, thank you Coco, have a great day. You have a great day too, and I want to say goodbye to our listeners and thank you so much for those of you who are listening.
Speaker 1:I think we had 2000 downloads for in 405 cities now and 36 countries, and I want to just thank everybody for sharing, because really we're just trying to educate everyone so that we all have the information that we need, that then we can decide what to do with our lives, and that feels so important that we all have an opportunity to have the information, because without information we're likely to make decisions that won't serve us. So thanks for being with us everybody. The Relationship Blueprint, where you unlock your power of connection. Have a great day.
