Are You Tired of Carrying All the Feelings? With Andrea DIndinger

We explore the hidden costs of emotional labor and how unspoken expectations drain couples, then map simple ways to share the load with clarity, compassion, and practice. Andrea Dindinger returns with practical scripts, the “emotional leader” idea, and her Loop Breaker course on ending repeat fights.

• defining emotional labor and why it’s exhausting
• naming transitions and creating simple homecoming contracts
• turning complaints into wishes and using soft startups
• avoiding mind reading with clear weekly check‑ins
• perfection pressure, comparison, and self‑talk that reduces resentment
• walking on eggshells with kids and modeling repair
• handling withdrawal and loud silence with explicit timeouts
• rotating “emotional leader” roles for small wins and relief
• early repairs versus costly avoidance and roof‑leak metaphor
• choosing one next step and building confidence through practice

“It's called The Loop Breaker... a really short digestible course that helps couples move out of the dynamics where they're having that same fight again and again... Find it at therapywithandrea.love or follow me on socials at Andrea Dindinger.”

Chapters

• 0:00 Emotional Labor Comes Into Focus
• 1:07 Meet Andrea + The Loop Breaker
• 3:56 Invisible Tasks And The Cost Of Return-The-Shirt Energy
• 6:46 Defining Emotional Labor: EggshelLS And Exhaustion
• 10:01 Transitions Home: Needs, Caves, And New Contracts
• 14:55 Fairness When Both Partners Work
• 18:40 From Rigid Plans To Fluid Teamwork
• 22:05 Perfection Traps, Comparison, And Resentment
• 27:00 Self-Check: Stories We Tell Ourselves
• 31:45 Don’t Swallow It: Negotiate The Real Needs
• 35:45 Undercommunication And The “You Should Know” Myth
• 40:35 Behind Every Complaint Is A Wish
• 44:05 Bids For Connection, Travel Stress, And Repair

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:01

Hello everybody and welcome back to the Relationship Blueprint where you unlock your power of connection. You ever feel like the thermostat in your relationship, like you're always adjusting the emotional temperature, or like a crystal ball predicting what your partner needs before they even know it? Maybe you're stuck on the seesaw doing the heavy lifting just to keep things balanced. That's emotional labor. And in this episode, I'm joined by Andrea Dindinger to explore why it is often invisible and how couples can share it more evenly. Andrea has been with us before and I so enjoyed being with you. I wanted you to come back. I love what you have to share about the invisible labor that we talked about. And there's so much more to share. Tell us a little bit more about the uh the program that you're selling because I was really, you talked about it briefly, and I want our listeners to know about it. And you may come back and tell us more, but just briefly tell us what it's about and where they can find that.

SPEAKER_01: 1:07

It's so good to be here with you today. Thank you so much. It's called The Loop Breaker. It is a um a really short digestible course that helps couples move out of the dynamics where they're having that same fight again and again, again, with some really actionable scripts and ways of thinking about that fight that everybody has. Everybody has that same dance. And so it's it's super digestible. People have been raving about it, and um, it's it's been helpful.

SPEAKER_00: 1:37

People have been raving about your podcast too. The loop breaker. Where do they find it?

SPEAKER_01: 1:42

They can go to my website and it's therapywithandrea.com, it's dot love, or they can follow me on socials at Andrea Dindinger.

SPEAKER_00: 1:54

Okay, wonderful. Thanks for that. And I can't wait to hear more about that. So these patterns, right? And we're talking about that today, these patterns of having this emotional labor that we're using some metaphors today about, you know, are we the thermostat in the house? Are we feeling like the crystal ball? Are we trying to always be on the right side of that seesaw? Let's give our listeners just a brief understanding of the we've talked about the invisible labor, like I'll do the birthday cards. And I just, this is a great story. So it's my daughter-in-law's birthday, and um I had bought her a couple things to wear, and one of them she didn't like or didn't fit, and I went to return it, but it was after 15 days, so then I went back and they wouldn't accept it, and then I had to call the manager, and then the manager was out of town, and then I finally got a hold of her two weeks later, and then the receipt wasn't there. So then there was a whole thing, right? And I thought about this un thing in life that I was responsible for among all of the things that many women are carrying. And it was all around a beautiful gift for an amazing daughter-in-law. Caleb, you're listening, I love you. And how much um, you know, just labor it was to just return a shirt. And that certainly isn't Kevin's fault or there's no blame here, but just the energy. And I think that's what we're talking about here today, Andrea, right? Is the energy that it takes. So we've we've talked about that labor, that invisible labor, but really focusing today more on that emotional labor. And I I'd love to hear what you're thinking about this right now. Tell us where you are.

SPEAKER_01: 3:36

You know, when I think about this emotional labor, I think about people walking on eggshells in their relationship, like I don't want to say the wrong thing, or else I'll be yelled at, or I'll get the cold shoulder, or they won't talk to me for a couple of days. And how in our relationships, that that place of just being trying to be so careful to not upset the person. Um and it's amazing how much emotional labor that takes, just the energy it takes to make certain your tone is in alignment. So to make sure that you're really, really paying attention and you're really there so that, or you avoid a topic. Um, you know, there's so many things that that come into that emotional labor so that you don't set somebody off. It's exhausting.

SPEAKER_00: 4:28

It is exhausting. And it I think it's important to mention that that doesn't mean we have to have, yes, there are abusive partners, but we're just really kind of talking about the normal relationships that most of us are in, that we really have to weigh our words, weigh our tone, choose times to talk about things, anticipate the person's mood. And it it's often it's so unspoken, but it's so, as you said, it's exhausting and it requires so much energy. So let's focus on kind of one at a time, I think. So this part where we are trying to anticipate the person's mood or what they need. You know, do they need space to listen? Are they really looking for feedback? Are they looking for space away from us because of a tough day? Like, what are your suggestions around how to manage that? What do you think?

SPEAKER_01: 5:21

I'm instantly brought back to that old book from the 90s, Men A from Mars, Women Are from Venus. Did you ever read that? I did, yes. Um, and I it you know, it's been a zillion years since I read it. But just remembering how in that book they talked about the man needing to come home and be go to his cave and then then emerge, and how the woman, you know, this is 1990s, but the woman really wanted that connection when that, you know, when that man came home, when her husband came home. And I think about that in terms of how we work with each other. And it's not necessarily that a woman doesn't need time before she engages in family life. Or um, I do think there's a conversation that says, what do you need when you come home? What do you need at the end of the day? And with so many people working from home since COVID, like that transition from work into family into household, that gap isn't there, even with like a drive or a or a commute. So it has to be a very intentional conversation. Um, and it really requires the person who's coming home to be able to say, Hey, I know I need to jump in and do dinner, but I need to change my clothes. I need to go lay down for five minutes. I need to not be spoken to for just I can set a timer for 10 minutes. I just need to, but if you don't speak about those needs that you need, that's when you are requiring the other person to hold the emotional labor in the relationship.

SPEAKER_00: 6:53

I think what you're saying is so important that if there's no discussion around it, it's all you know, we use the word contracts, you know, we need a new contract in the relationship around this transition because now I'm not going to the office anymore. I don't have the 30-minute drive, and that was my time to sort of transition from, you know, the work mind into the home, kids, dinner, whatever that looks like for you. But I love what you're saying about, you know, someone really being clear about their needs and then, you know, making an agreement around it. The part I often hear in my office is that they have talked about it and one partner, what they need really then requires the other partner that then to bathe the kids, get the ditter on. And with now that we're not in the 90s, we're 2025, the other partner, typically both parties are working. The other partner has to come home and have a transition too. So this this kind of mutual discussion about what do you need, what do I need, and then getting really clear about it, you know, whatever that can look like, even if it's odd days, even days, so that they can still feed the kids, get their needs met, change their clothes so that they can really show up for each other.

SPEAKER_01: 8:09

And I think what's interesting is when couples are really kind of firing on all cylinders, they can veer away from that contract, right? They don't have to stick to, I've got Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and you've got Tuesday, Thursday, Sunday. Um, they don't because they there's a little bit more fluidity in their connection and the ways that they're coming together. But when you're disconnected in a significant way, that's where that Monday, Wednesday, Friday contract is super duper important. And I even think that having the contract helps people find that fluidity so that they can have some flexibility if on a on a Wednesday when it's my turn to be on and I don't have it, that there's, you know, the you know, just that good natured feeling towards each other.

SPEAKER_00: 8:58

Yeah. So that I can say tonight's my night, but you know what, somebody got fired at work today and I just don't have it in me. Could you take today? You know, that kind of yes. But you're so it's so important to say this when you're not having the you don't have it right now. You're finding the really big imbalance that finding a way, whether it's every other day or whatever, the couple comes up with, but having some a plan in place can really kind of interrupt the pattern you're in, because I think what we're hearing, I know I'm hearing from a lot of women, is the world has changed, but really nothing's changed. And that then, of course, goes back to what we talked about with the invisible labor, this kind of exhaustion that then the other partner is surprised with the snarky comments or, you know, the sort of subtle and maybe not so subtle responses that they really aren't anticipating. It's kind of like, whoa, you know, I just walked in the door. Well, so did I. Yeah. Yeah. It's a really big imbalance. So I think what you're saying is if you're already doing that great energy and it's really not a problem, there can be a lot of synergy around that and that that's a goal to create. That if you're not there, let's have a real conversation about both of our needs at the end of the day and how can we do this together? How can we problem solve as a couple?

SPEAKER_01: 10:22

Because we're a team. And it's probably not to have that conversation at the end of the day. That's probably the conversation to have on a Saturday afternoon when you've got a little bit of space, not to say that you will, but, you know, or a Sunday after brunch kind of feeling, like when there's just a little bit of space to think about the week ahead and what each person is going to have on their plate to um, you know, really have an idea of like what are each each member of this couple going to really need? And that those needs really increase um and become more complex when children are involved. But even when you don't have children um and it's less complex, it's still so, so important for people to sit down and really start thinking about what do what do we need here for this week?

SPEAKER_00: 11:14

Yeah, you know, I we have um, you know that we have grandchildren. So we're we get to watch three beautiful couples trying to navigate this whole thing with daycare and all the things that um that younger parents are are really juggling. And, you know, it I think it's also important to just normalize for every couple out there. This isn't easy. There is no bad guy, bad girl in this story. This is just really a hard time because by the time you get home from work, you might only have a couple hours with your kids. And then what do you two both want that to look like before they go to bed? What has to be done and how can you do that in a more connected way so that neither party feels overwhelmed, right? Not easy.

SPEAKER_01: 11:58

I was just thinking about how, you know, as a young mother, you have this idea of it's supposed to be this kind of picture perfect way, and you know, we see that with Instagram and Pinterest and all that. Oh, yeah. Um, I remember my kids were, I don't know how old they were pretty young, and we went to this like outdoor Shakespeare performance, like, you know, the the auditorium was like, you know, sandstone steps, and you know, everybody's having picnics, and there's this one family that is everybody in the family is wearing white, like white, white. There's like dirt and food and drinks everywhere, and they're dressed so perfectly, tucked in shirts and their hair perfect. And I remember looking at that family and being like, What's wrong with us? Right? Like, like, why aren't we perfect like they are? Um, you know, and it's just a momentary thought. But that even that thought translates into my marriage, where then I can have that very judgmental thought, like, why aren't we like this? If you would only um, you know, want to have us all wear white too. Yeah. You know, this Shakespeare performance, then we could be like that, you know? And that like then the then that emotional labor that's happening inside that mom, or that was happening inside of me was like, okay, Andrea, perfection doesn't exist, and you know that, okay, in a little snarky voice, like, I can't wait to see what the first person who gets dirty in that family. Nobody did. Nobody did. Nobody did. And then I thought, how awful it must be to live in a family where you're outside with dirt and food and wearing white and cannot, cannot make a mistake. So then I had some compassion. But it's, you know, all of that was emotional labor that I was kind of doing for myself, but also for the relationship with my husband. Because had I not been doing that, what would have happened is I would have put this invisible expectation, this invisible like mood, judgment onto the family, onto the marriage that he would have had no idea about. And then there's that tension. You can feel it, like, whoa, what just happened?

SPEAKER_00: 14:17

Yeah. And the point that you're bringing up too is that while this is going on in your head, you know, I'm just trying to imagine your husband, I don't know him, but he may have a whole different picture, right? Of he might not even notice the people in white, you know, and and I had this experience the other day. I was alone, my husband had gone to uh funeral in Philadelphia, and uh, so I was changing the fall clothes into the closet and I was redoing his side and hanging the shirts, like the right sides of hangers all lined up, and I was resentful, and I had to say to myself, this is important to you, this is not important to him. So how can you be mad at someone for something that is truthfully so unimportant, period, while means something to me with my stuff, that I can let his stuff be alone and not judge him for it, because that's some energy that we don't need. But it's that it goes back to that same kind of experience that you're describing where our picture feels right at the time. And then we can either get conscious about, you know, wow, like this is really my issue, not his. And then I could go on about my business and kind of just do it with joy, really. I I did, versus hanging them up like and really coming at it from a whole different energetic place, you know, just yeah, let it go. Not important because this differentiation thing that I think a lot of couples may or may not really be conscious of is that believe it or not, they might not see it the way you see it. Right. It would be amazing. Yeah. I mean, that's really like every couple comes in and says, Hey, if you can fix him, I'll be a lot happier. Meaning, I want him to be just like me and think like me, which we really don't want. We know that. We don't, but it is sort of an unconscious desire because we think that would make us happy.

SPEAKER_01: 16:08

I think you're gonna have to take a photo of that closet because I want to see what it looks like and celebrate with you. But you know, what you did with that closet is you did the emo, your own emotional labor. You didn't hold on to this tension, this resentment, this anger, and then put it on your husband when he came home. You process that energy, those thoughts, those feelings, that the physicalness of it all, right? It's exhausting to, you know, go through your closet. And that is, I think, where the opportunity is, is for all of our couples out there, is to really take a moment and do that self-reflection. And, you know, I love how Brene Brown asks, like, what are the stories you're telling yourself? And once you start recognizing that your thoughts are neither true nor untrue, they are truly thoughts. And a thought is going to make you feel one way or another way. But once you start recognizing, like, this is a story I'm telling myself, this is just something I'm thinking. If I thought something totally opposite, you know, kind of in the Byron Cady way, uh, you know, is this true? You're like, no, it's not true, you know, or if it's not true, then I feel totally different in my system. And so that that process is, I think, the answer to this emotional labor imbalance. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 17:34

The the Byron Katie, for our listeners, there's the four questions. Please Google it. It's great work. I mean, if you could do these four questions, you'd really have a lot more freedom in your life. But in my circumstances, the last question would be who would I be without this thought? Right. I'd be in the closet just on my merry way, getting the job done and moving on with my day and doing my neurotic stuff, like putting all the plaids together, which is highly atypical. Okay. Doesn't make me bad, but it's kind of the way I like it. It's the need to control it or make him do it, is the problem. Right. Yeah. I love the Bayern Katie work. But I think you're so right about this, checking in with ourselves. But then the second part of that is, and the closet's a terrible example, and the people in white, but sometimes the need is like, for example, if my husband his idea of a transition when he gets home is to go up and work on his computer or play video games for an hour, and I do the bath and the food and the pajamas, that would be something I'd have to look at. And then instead of weighing my words and carrying all that invisible um emotional labor, then, you know, figuring out what we talked about, like how do we negotiate this together to make it work for both of us, right? And that is is the important part too. We're not saying swallow your feelings. No, absolutely not. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 19:03

I think in fact, people under communicate versus over-communicate in general.

SPEAKER_00: 19:08

Uh, more about that. I think that's a really good point. Let's hear more about that.

SPEAKER_01: 19:11

Well, how I see it show up is, you know, when you're a baby, a newborn, and your mother is holding you and looking down at you, and she's she's watching to see, like, oh, why are you crying? Do you have gas? Do you need a burp? Are you hungry? Do you need your diaper changed? Um, are you tired? Right. And so, you know, and none of us do it perfectly, hopefully good enough. And some people actually don't get any any of that, uh, and very, very unfortunately. So this, this, you know, this new mother is trying to figure out your signals. And for the most part, you know, they get most of the signals right some of the time. You know, make mistakes here and there. But when then we come into our marriages, I believe that we have this assumption, you love me, you've known me for 26 years, for 16 years. You should know. You should know why I am upset when I walk into the kitchen and it looks like this. You should know what's happening for me if the dishwasher doesn't get run at night because you've been married to me for so long. You should know this. And while maybe some of that is true, there could be a little bit more um conscious attention to what your partner really what really matters to your partner. There's the other side of it that says, Hey, I'm walk I walk into the kitchen and it's really a mess. And I feel like you're leaving this mess for me. And I I really need to come home after a long day with clients and having had this work dinner to not having this work to do after this.

SPEAKER_00: 20:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 20:51

And it's that place of like really communicating what it is you need, whether it's like on Mother's sake, this is what I need on Mother's Day, or this is how I like my birthday to be celebrated. And that is that's that place people say, like, if I have to tell them, does it even matter? If I say, like, I want you to bring me flowers home once a week, does it count if they bring me flowers home? And that's where I'm like, it counts even more. But I think we so often undercommunicate, like, oh, they know to bring me flowers.

SPEAKER_00: 21:21

Yeah. I love that, Andrea. You know, I often tell my couples before they go on vacation, talk about your picture of what the vacation's gonna look like. Because you may see yourself sitting on a beach with a Mai tie, and I might see myself touring every historical site, not true for me, but you know, they're really taking it all in and go, go, go, go, go. And then we get there, we're so excited to be there, and we have a fight first day because we have a different picture. But your point about even just coming home from work and what the kitchen looks like, I like to suggest to my couples that behind every complaint is a wish in disguise.

SPEAKER_01: 21:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 21:59

That what they can hear from us is, you know, you know, honey, I know that you may not have had time to do these dishes, but I mean, I have I have such a fantasy of when I come home that there aren't any dishes in the sink, could you help me with that? We also have to get responsible for our tone and our messaging, asking for what we need, because so many of us have grown up with critical parents that when we tell our partner, you know, I need you to do the dishes, they're not even hearing us. They're really hearing a nagging, we're critical parent, and then it's the fight because it's really not about even the dishes in the sink anymore. Right.

SPEAKER_01: 22:37

And like when you think about your couples who go on vacation and the first day they get into a fight, I don't even think it's about like the misalignment on the vacation. I think it's about how they're trying to get connected and either push away connection or actually come into connection and almost like kind of burn through kind of the stress that it takes to de-stress to go into the vacation. And traveling is stressful. I mean, it's getting even more and more stressful. And so I think part of it is like, hey, we start this con this holiday with a conflict with fight. And if we recognize that, and that's part of the one of the things in the loop breaker that I teach people is recognizing that that conflict isn't necessarily a problem or something bad, but that it is actually somebody saying, like, hey, I really need a hug. I need to connect. I need, um, I want us to like not even unpack for a moment and just go and get a margarita and so guacamole. And then I want to have that commitment that we're gonna come back and do this. But I think that that that conflict is really, really about trying to, you know, connect and have a some bid for connection.

SPEAKER_00: 23:52

The bids for connection. I was thinking of Gottman as you were talking about the whole idea of transitions being such difficult things for human beings. You know, I often think about when I, again, watching grandchildren, you could have hot, delicious pizza in the kitchen, but if they're intensely playing with something they're enjoying, and you say, come get your pizza, they're not maybe going to come right away. And it's not because they don't want the pizza, it's just because transitions are hard. So they're just as hard on us. And what you said about vacations is so true. Like all you have to do to get ready to even leave, forget, you know, like the packing and did you have the passport and the millions of things that have to be done? And then to expect that you're just going to arrive somewhere and it will all be magical right away when you haven't even really been able to wind down. So I think that that is really helpful. And again, we go back to your loop breaker. Such an important opportunity for couples to take. And you said it doesn't how long is the webinar or class? Oh, I think it's like 30 minutes.

SPEAKER_01: 24:57

It's really short. So it's something like you can listen to and listen to and listen to and really get some of these ideas and scripts embodied so that they're yours, not just, you know, my my words, but like they're become yours. So how you can respond in those different situations. I kind of want to go back to what we were saying with the walking on eggshells.

SPEAKER_00: 25:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 25:18

Because I think that's um, I think that's something everybody's done in their marriage. It doesn't matter which side of the gender you are on. Like you, everybody has that, like, this is a a conversation, a dynamic that's tricky. And so I'm gonna walk on eggshells. And where I find it gets even exasperated is when you bring children into the loop, right? Because they're like the emotional thermometers, right? You know, when they start acting like lunatics, I always go like, okay, what's happening for me? What's happening for him? Like, what's happening around us? Like how much stress is in the room? Because they they feel it and they don't necessarily always have the skills to articulate what it is. Even, you know, with help and time, they they can. But that's where I find it's super important when a conflict happens, because it's just tension that somebody's releasing at dinner. You know, in our family, I will say, like, hey, um, I think dad's just really tired and he needs to go take a take a time out. Like, that wasn't actually about you to the kids. And then as I'm saying that to them, I'm actually saying that to myself as well. Like, that actually isn't about me. There was nothing inappropriate that was asked for. That's just somebody who's having a lot of feelings and maybe needs to go to the bathroom, wash their hands, take an exhale. So that naming that dynamic that happens when it happens is a way of like not walking on eggshells and helping people take recognize what their responsibility is versus what somebody else's responsibility is. And that just because someone has a bit of a, you know, a mini tantrum, whatever, that it's not because of something we've done wrong, but that somebody else is just having an experience. And that means that people don't have to be so anxious about somebody getting upset about something. Even like somebody getting upset about like milk being spilled at the dinner table, right?

SPEAKER_00: 27:13

Yeah. It's so important what you're saying. And I love because we gotta model this for our children, because I just did a couples workshop a couple of weeks ago, Kevin and I. And one of the things that we often talk about is that a lot of the couples either saw a lot of fighting, which was really very difficult for them in their childhood, or they never saw fighting because the parents did it privately. And I don't mean that what you're describing as a fight, but someone, a parent say, has a difficult moment, being able to, first of all, as you said, not make it about the kids so that they're reassured that they haven't done something wrong, but also modeling how normal it is and how, like when you said dad needs a timeout, like that adults need time away too, and that it's okay to say, I need a timeout, because I'm not gonna react well to what's going on because my nervous system is hijacked, right? So I think that's so important for our listeners to hear. It's like what great permission it is to make mistakes and then also having the tools to repair the mistakes, because that's really life. We're not gonna live, we're not gonna do any of this perfectly, nor should we.

SPEAKER_01: 28:23

And I think even so, you know, you have like the loud outburst, but then you have also in some families the withdrawal and the silent treatment where, you know, the parent is just really emotionally shut down, which it can be harder, actually, because at least somebody's shouting about, you know, stubbing their toe. Yeah. You kind of have some context around it. But when somebody is just emotionally vacant and quiet and withdrawn, like that's almost like that really loud silence that everybody feels. And I think it's a super important in that moment to say to the person who's being silent, like, hey, I can really I can really hear, you know, your your absence right now. I wonder if you need to go and take a break. Um and then saying to the kids, like, you know, mom is having a um is really kind of needing some is really shut down and really quiet. And so she needs to resource herself so that then the kids don't have to be walking on eggshells in that way, and the and the spouse doesn't have to. And it's just the more we can like over-communicate what is happening, the more like wisdom that is there and the more ease that is there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 29:33

And naming it, as you just described, I said, I really was one of those people. I had a mother who was very comfortable with expressing her anger. And so I had made a pretty conscious decision not to do that, not to be a yeller. And so what I didn't know is that when I would be triggered, it wasn't silent treatment as much as a trauma response of not being able to talk and also seeing it as a protective way. That I won't show my rage, although people could feel the rage. And what I wish I could have done then and that I do now is to be able to do what you've said is to say, I don't think I can talk about this right now, but I will eventually, because just reassuring your children and your husband, you're coming back. It's the absence and the sort of no-ending to this new feeling, because this mom who's always so happy-go-lucky and engaged and storytelling and is suddenly not there was just as damaging, not knowing at the time, but I certainly see it now. So I really think that's an important pro part you've brought up today, Andrea, that you can learn from my mistakes that you can you can actually you don't have to talk when you're really triggered like that, but you do need to reassure your family that I can't right now, but I'll be back.

SPEAKER_01: 30:51

I'll be back. And that's where it's like, hey, I need I just need a pause. I need to, you know, I need to tap out. I need to go just take a I need to go take a minute for myself.

SPEAKER_00: 31:01

Yeah. You know, I think what we're what we're also, you and I are talking about though, it also could sound to um, you know, I think if we can take our personal responsibility, yes, it's nice to be able to say dad needs this or mom needs this, but I also think that that's a lot of what's happening in the relationships that are on this seesaw of trying to like take the responsibility for somebody else's emotions and reactions that causes the resentment and the strain. So I think we're kind of in that dance of how much of that do we do for a partner rather than really having that private conversation with them and saying, you know, this is maybe what happened the other night and why Tom shut down, because when you did X, I watched that reaction. What can we do better with that? How could we have handled that better? Women, women generally, it's not only women, but someone is carrying too much of this emotional labor. Even the part with how are we doing as a couple? Yeah, for sure. Question is that's all emotional labor. I when we do the workshop, there's we introduce it with somebody here was the dragor and somebody was the drag ee. And don't worry about it because you both are important in the relationship. The drag, the drag or is usually the person who's carrying the emotional labor. And thank God they're there because they are willing to do that. And yet the other person that's the drage, I think often is carrying the same anxiety. They're just sort of doing their own way of protecting the relationship from making it worse.

unknown: 32:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 32:40

If I if we talk about it, if we unpack anything, like what will happen then? I don't know. So I'm I'm just gonna sort of pretend it's not a problem over here and let you carry that part of our relationship for us. And that can be really hard on people, I think.

SPEAKER_01: 32:54

Yeah, I love that you're either being dragged here or you're dragging somebody here. That's such a great way of looking at it. I I mean, I really love that. I'm gonna share that with my clients, my couples that come in, because it is somebody who's dragging the person there and being dragged. During COVID, when people when couples are really, really struggling, I would ask in session, I would say, which of you is willing to be the leader this week? Who's willing to be the emotional leader this week? Somebody has to be, which we all know. And who's gonna volunteer this week? You don't have to do it every week, but for this week, you are taking on, you're wearing the I'm the leader hat. And it was really like it's kind of back to like the contract of like who's on on Wednesdays and Wednesdays. Yeah, yeah. But it's kind of week by week. So you're saying, like, okay, this week I am stepping into the emotional leader position. I've got my admiral cap on and I'm like gonna lean in when something feels off. I'm gonna name when the mood changes, I'm gonna check in, I'm gonna be self-responsive to like what's happening on my end, I'm gonna be curious what's happening on their end. I'm gonna give a lot of grace to the other person because I know when somebody's irritated or less perfect that there's something emotionally happening for them that they can't articulate. And when couples start like taking roles in that position, you know, it's like I keep giving them different medals of honor and stars and like, but you gain confidence. Yes. And I think that's where we don't get enough practice around how do we gain confidence to be in this emotional leader role. Um, and it's just through practice. But when you know, like, okay, this week I'm on and the next week you're on, it becomes sort of like a game.

SPEAKER_00: 34:48

Well, I love that, the emotional leader. I I might steal that because I'll say who's gonna wear the big girl or big boy panties this week. Because, you know, what we did as children that worked as children to cope in the families that we lived in was very intelligent that navigated well to survive whatever that childhood was. Maybe being quiet was necessary. Rocking the boat was really important in that house as a child. And then bringing that to your adult relationships, just let's evaluate how it is working right now. And I'm thinking as you're saying this about a client who is not wearing the emotional leadership hat and um how much I believe that that person has that capacity. And yet it's so scary to stretch into something that you really an area where you just don't feel competent. And we all know that we spend the most time in the place that we feel the most competent. That's where our energy goes. So if uh if your relationship feels a little bit like I don't know how to be the uh admiral leading the ship in a relationship, it's so hard for me, you know. What are you gonna do? You're gonna pull back and and maybe not wear that hat. And what a shame to not have that opportunity. So I like the week, you know, just for a week, an experiment. Let's try it on.

SPEAKER_01: 36:07

And even if it's just one day that week that you've done it, right? That counts.

SPEAKER_00: 36:12

Yeah, small bites, small bites, small steps.

SPEAKER_01: 36:15

And what I think is interesting when somebody says, Okay, I'll be the emotional leader for this week, and they do it one day, that relief that the other person feels is gigantic. It's just gigantic. And then the love and the appreciation that comes out of that reinforces how good it feels to be that emotional leader. So it's just like the you know, it's like baby steps.

SPEAKER_00: 36:38

Yeah. Yeah. And I think what you're talking about, that relief, it's almost like, you know, uh my love language is to uh what's the word? Uh not quality. Well, quality time, but mostly it's acts of service. Because I'm a person who, you know, grew up having to do, you know, everything. And so, you know, and my husband's really good at giving me this gift, but each time it's like this this breath of like, ah, you did that. It's done. I didn't even have to ask for it. You just did it. Thank you. And it really is about how we receive love and how we feel loved and cared for. And it may make no sense to anybody else, but when your partner knows that that's a way that you feel loved and cared about, you're gonna wear the Admiral's hat today and kind of take on the role of how's the temperature doing here with us? Oh you know, just and you've heard me.

unknown: 37:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 37:32

He heard me. And you love me, right? And yes.

SPEAKER_01: 37:35

That's what you're saying. Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 37:38

Are there any parts of this that you think that we haven't explored together today?

SPEAKER_01: 37:42

I mean, there's probably a million parts of it that we haven't explored. It's the difficult conversations, initiating those, that's a big one. That's a huge one. And that's right, like that's a big load to carry. It's you know, it's it's always it's generally the same person who's initiating that conversation. And so I think it's important for a couple to recognize, like, okay, Andrew is gonna be the one who initiates these conversations. And we know that. Yeah. And so there's can be some lightheartedness to, okay, I'm initiating one of those conversations once again. But in this way that like both people are in on it. And then it can be like, hey, I really need to set some time aside to talk about this thing that happened yesterday morning. And I'm not quite ready to do it yet, but I I I'm wanting to like put a bookmark in this, like say, we are coming back to this moment, and really having both people recognize that when we when we say something like that, that it means that we love each other. And I think that having some kind of pre-conversation around when I say, hey, I need to talk about this, it actually means I'm saying, I love you. I love you, I love us, I love our marriage, I love our relationship, I love our family, I love our friends. And because of how much I love, that's why I want to talk about this. It's not because I hate you. It's not because you're in trouble. Yeah, you may have done something that pissed me off, but I wouldn't talk with anybody about anything if I didn't love them.

SPEAKER_00: 39:15

Right. Because we wouldn't expend the energy if you just really even think about friendships. If somebody has really, say, hurt you or some some rupture has happened, and if you love them, you're gonna find that that strength to say, hey, I want to repair this with you, and I'm not sure how to do it, but let's talk about it. If you're kind of like that's a big investment with someone that you're not really invested in.

SPEAKER_01: 39:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 39:39

So I like that that that's more of a mindset a couple can develop because you're right. I think, you know, I'm I can be that person in our relationship too that will initiate it. And what I've experienced early on with that role is that it often felt though like Kevin was in trouble. And that goes that's past stuff, right? But I think that it's it's important to to really have that conversation around I wouldn't be so invested in this if I wasn't so invested in you. And if this is my role in the relationship, I hope you'll take your turn because I want to know when when I hurt you. Um, I hope you will will do the same and show me how much you love me by letting me know how I've impacted you, right?

unknown: 40:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 40:24

So it's uh it's it's hard to have those difficult conversations, but thank God if people don't have them, the consequences are bigger and worse by throwing them under the rug, right? And then they end up in all kinds of situations that the couples say at the end, like, how did we get here? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 40:41

Right. I think about it like when you postpone that conversation, it's kind of like a leak in your roof, you know. Oh, you saw a little bit of water, but you just kind of oh, it went away. And then it gets bigger and bigger. Eventually, like, you know, water's gushing in on your, you know, on your bedroom because there's been this leak and it's just gotten bigger and bigger and bigger over time. And the amount of damage that has been done is really, really expensive. Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 41:11

And the cost of what divorce really means for families is so huge. I mean, it's financial, emotional, spiritual, physical, and uh, so investing in this early, and it's just it's something that no one's taught us. I mean, some people may have gotten it, but as far as the people I know, not just my clients, but just people I love and care about, you know, I certainly didn't get a lot of modeling around how to make relationships work. What do you do with conflict? But you know, how how do we navigate this thing called relationship, which is pretty challenging, and yet I can't think of anything more valuable.

SPEAKER_01: 41:49

I mean, I think that's where like revolution happens, is when people step into their role as an emotionally mature adult in their relationship and are modeling that for their children, their community, that's when people really like take off and soar.

SPEAKER_00: 42:07

Andrea, we were talking about some really difficult things in relationships and this emotional labor, if you will. I I picture some couples, male, female, female, female, but somebody carrying too much of the weight. I'm picturing the big bag and that the other person may or may not even be aware of it. And so you and I have talked about uh relationship revolutions, right? Like when we're our listeners are listening to this podcast, let's talk about their next steps. How does this work now that they're doing by already listening to the relationship blueprint? How does this help them move forward? Let's talk about that before we close.

SPEAKER_01: 42:49

I think just as they're as our listeners are listening, they are already engaging in this emotional mature work that needs to be done across the board. And I think there's something about recognizing that there is progress happening. You are doing steps to move the needle. And then it can be a way of starting the conversation with your spouse or your partner by sending them the podcast and saying, like, hey, like, I'd love for you to just listen to this. Listen on two times speed if necessary. Listen, I'd love to have this conversation. I understand that that right then and there is emotional labor. And somebody, again, has to be the leader, but it might be a great, great way of um giving your partner an idea of like what it is you're really thinking about and wanting to practice or try on. The, you know, the like, I'll be the emotional leader this week, or uh what you're saying about the contract in terms of who's on Mondays and who's on Tuesdays. This might be just one of those steps forward to have some of those conversations.

SPEAKER_00: 43:51

And Andrea, I think what's also important is the way you just described that, that if we can show up for our partner in a way that says, I don't know how to do this either. And I want to do this with you. And I heard this podcast, and maybe there's something, little gold for us in this. We may not have all of this stuff that we need to work on, but even maybe the pictures of the vacation could help us to prepare for you know the conversations around transitions when we come home from work. If we just pick one thing uh that that maybe we can talk about together, because I I'm so invested in you. I'm invested in us. And I think when we when we present it in a way that's palatable versus, I think you really need to listen to this because we got issues, you know, that is not going to be well received. And without this, I think you talked about emotional maturity. The closet thing just happened to me last week, everybody.

unknown: 44:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 44:46

And it really is a growth, a growth gift to give to yourself, to really kind of get really responsible, responsible about our own reactivity. And then asking ourselves, you know, how do we want to show up in this relationship? That I can be responsible for. So I've loved our time together again. Me too, me too. Yeah. Here you are out in California doing what I'm doing. And it's so exciting to get to help people and and especially in the relationship blueprint because I feel like we have such an opportunity to reach so many more people. Yeah, for sure. Thank you for watching. Yeah, thanks for being with us again today. Is there anything you want to add before we close?

SPEAKER_01: 45:29

You know, just if people want more support, they could follow me on my uh socials, uh Andred, check out my website. There's always some information to check out and find out on ways of growing and maturing. I love that.

SPEAKER_00: 45:44

And the there's so much freedom in the growth. I think it feels like hard work, but on the other side of that is so much freedom and so much joy to have in your relationship because we all have this negativity bias that typically relationships 80% is going well. It's the 20% that isn't or or less, but you know, we focus on um what isn't going well because of our human nature of a negativity bias. But if we can focus on what's going right too, then then whatever we focus on will grow. And these other things we can manage. So thanks again for being with us.

SPEAKER_01: 46:18

So good to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_00: 46:20

And thanks everybody for listening. We're so fortunate to have Andrea with us and to keep learning and growing together. This is the Relationship Blueprint, unlocking your power of connection. And we will see you next time. Have a great day.