Your Partner Is Your Best Teacher When You Let Differences In, with Dr. Raluca Anton

Love rarely breaks on differences; it breaks on our inability to make space for them. We sit down with Dr. Raluca Anton—psychologist, author, and Imago faculty member—to unpack why couples often share the same core needs but use opposite coping styles to get there. One partner finds safety in structure and planning, the other in freedom and exploration. When those worlds collide, fights about schools, money, or schedules are rarely about the topic. They’re about nervous systems, history, and the parts of ourselves we exiled to survive.

Raluca shares a candid story from her own marriage—rules versus freedom—and how they learned to see the shared need beneath the clash. We map the power struggle’s hidden agenda (“I’ll love you once you change”) and offer a practical way out: create room for two truths without erasing yourself. Using Imago Dialogue, mirroring, validation, and empathy, couples can slow reactivity and start solving the real problem. You’ll hear why the traits you’re most annoyed by are often the ones your nervous system secretly craves, and how partners become unlikely teachers who help us reclaim lost parts like risk taking, play, or tenderness.

This conversation is a field guide for building secure connection in a polarized world. Expect concrete takeaways: how to locate the shared need under any argument, craft “both-and” solutions that serve two nervous systems, and treat mistakes as essential data. Growth is not instant; brains learn through trial and error and repetition. When we honor effort, repair quickly, and repeat what works, we move from symbiosis to mature connection—two full selves choosing one life. Listen, reflect, and ask yourself: what do I lose when I refuse to accept difference, and what might I gain by making space for it?

If this resonates, follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a review to help more couples find their way back to each other.

Transcript

Welcome Back & Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Hi, everybody, and welcome back to the Relationship Blueprint where you unlock your power of connection. And I've taken a hiatus for about six weeks. And so to start 2026 off, I've invited someone that I've only met once in person, but struck me with her brilliance and her kindness and her real dedication to the work of healing. Today I'm honored to welcome Dr. Reluca Anton to the Relationship Blueprint. Dr. Anton is a prominent psychologist, psychotherapist based in Romania, and a leading voice in relational attachment focused work across Eastern Europe. She is the founder of the Imago Therapy Academy in Romania, as well as the instructor with the Imago International Training Institute, a faculty member that we cherish. Reluca is also the author of some best-selling books and a regular contributor with publications that bring depth and clarity and compassion to the field of mental health. Her work bridges clinical excellence, relational wisdom, and cultural insight. And I'm so grateful to have you with us today. Welcome, Roluca. Thank you so much, Goku. I'm so happy to be here. Is there anything at all that I left out in that intro that you'd like to tell the audience about you and your work? I really love working with relationships.

SPEAKER_02 1:29

So yeah. This sums up what you said that I really love working with relationships. And even if I was trained in individual psychology and psychotherapy, actually, the minute I started to understand how relationships work and the fact that we don't exist without our relationships, everything switched inside. And I really love my work and training and working with our trainees.

unknown 1:56

Yeah.

Why Couples Work Changes Everything

SPEAKER_01 1:57

What what brought you to this work specifically? Because I feel like I too was just drawn into the couples' work. I had worked with children for many years, and I was so tired of trying to put a band-aid on bigger problems with families by only working with the children. And I found parents not really engaging with that process as much as I hoped. And I thought, okay, if I can work with families, couples in particular, then maybe I'll have a bigger impact on that family. And that's what brought me to the couple's work. How did you arrive here?

SPEAKER_02 2:31

Well, while working in individual therapy, two things happened. One of them was the fact that most of our sessions, my sessions with my clients, were about relationships and relational dynamics. And the second reason was that I wanted to try to work with a couple. And I I remember that I think 20 years ago or something like that, I translated a cognitive behavioral handbook for couples in Romania, in Romania. And it was very interesting. Interesting what I what I have uh uh read, what I read there. And I thought it's interesting, I would like to work with couples. And uh I had the luck to work with uh I I called them very difficult couple. Of course, everything made sense. And after working with them, actually for a few sessions, because nothing that I read in that book really worked. Because I I didn't know how to use all that information, not that the book was not good. And then uh my my colleague Gaspar Gerg, who who brought uh Harville and Helen in Romania, invited me to attend to Rebecca's trainings. This is how things were 10 years ago.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

Yeah, that was 10 years ago. We started maybe close to the same time. Uh yeah, it's so interesting how the before amago therapy training and after amago therapy training, it's like who I am and what I do and how I am in relationships has totally changed.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

And also the question, what I did in my private practice before images, you know, because oh my god, I talked about relationships without knowing all these things. Yeah. It's interesting to it was interesting to meet some of my clients, the before imago clients that came into my uh practice after a few years with different problems that they had. And they they told me that I'm so I'm a different therapist and I work differently. And of course, maybe the years that passed also helped me with that. But I think that really Imago changed the way I work with my clients and also changed my life. I I always say that.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

It is, it's true about the transformation and what many therapists I don't think they just as you said, I didn't know what I didn't know. And that the framework, the theory, the framework, the structure has brought such depth to my work as well. So I completely connect with what you're saying. Today you have been so willing to talk about something I think that in this world right now is so very important about accepting our differences. And we're gonna be focusing on those differences in couplehood, but we can see that's a microcosm for the bigger world about accepting differences. But we're gonna focus today on couplehood. Then also, I think what's also really important is the idea of connecting with parts of us that we've lost or maybe denied. Um, I'm really especially interested in this right now because I feel like it is at the heart of what we do with couples and helping them do both of those things. We're helping them accept differences and then also reclaim parts of themselves that they've lost. I know that you chose that topic for a reason. So tell us why that's so important to you.

Discovering Imago And Its Impact

SPEAKER_02 6:03

I chose the topic for two reasons now that I'm thinking about it. Of course, the first one was my difficulty with accepting differences and with understanding the whole thing with lost parts in my relationships and in my couple relationship, because I I was I was raised in an environment where I had to do things because this is how things are done. You have to behave, you have to speak in a certain manner, you have to stand in a certain way, you have to always smile. And all these information that girls receive from from their mothers and their families. And of course, it was very difficult for me to understand why people act differently. I entered a relationship that pushed all my buttons by being so different.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

Of course we do.

SPEAKER_02 6:51

And the second reason hearing is speak, and of course, I anchor in in our conversation before you pushed uh record because we were discussing about how things go worldwide and how difficult it is for each of us to understand how is this possible, but at the same time we know in our work that it's about accepting differences and it's about accepting the fact that people in the same situation see things differently, and they might, and of course, they have the same need.

SPEAKER_00 7:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

Of course. And when we started our conversation about this podcast was a period in in Romania when we had elections, and as you can imagine, things went the same as did in the US with two sides and people not accepting the other. And one of the things that I things that I did during that period was that I promised to myself that I will speak about accepting differences as many times as I can. And the second thing that I did is that I've really tried to understand people that had have different opinions than mine.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

Can we just pause there for a second? Because what you're saying is so important. You are in Eastern Europe and I'm in the United States, and the world is in a very tough place. And when your election happened, it went, it was very similar to our election, where you're either this way or that way, but you made a commitment, as difficult as that may have been, to talk about accepting differences whenever you have the opportunity. I want to hear more. You made this commitment around accepting differences in your political world and then also in your practice. So, how does accepting differences with couples, you know, if we really laser in on that, tell us more about why accepting the difference? You said you and your partner are different. I have lots of differences with Kevin, right? We are the Imago matches. And um, why is accepting the difference so critical to healing in your relationship?

Accepting Differences As A Healing Path

SPEAKER_02 9:02

You know, we have this image in our in our mind when we enter a relationship, we have this idea, this hidden idea, maybe conscious, maybe unconscious, that after we commit, I will do everything that it takes in order for you to change. Yes. Then you will see things the way I see things, you will think the way I think, you will behave, you will do things the way I do things. So I think each one of us has this secret idea in our mind before really committing to a relationship. And then reality strikes, and we we see that that's not possible, and that's not fair, and that's not even ethical to convince you that my reality is the truth, and you also have to commit to my truth. I think that it's so important to understand that we all enter our relationships with these unconscious ideas about how things will go after we commit and after we say yes, or after we have children, or or whatever. And the first idea is that this is not ethical. Because when we commit, I commit with you as you are.

SPEAKER_01 10:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 10:18

And this means accepting the way you are and I love, and accepting the way you are, and I don't agree with. Otherwise, I'm fighting a fight, I'm going through a battle with not only with you, but also with myself.

SPEAKER_00 10:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

And I think, yeah, so what what I'm hearing you say is that we have this unconscious agenda that we're not even aware of, that once we get together and you realize that I'm right, that you're going, then my way of seeing the world is right, that somehow if I can get you to change, then I'll be happy.

SPEAKER_02 10:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:55

And in that, we just have this power struggle where I'm pushing, pulling, you're pushing, pulling, because my partner has that same unconscious agenda too. I think what is so interesting about that is that even when we know that, even when we go to therapy and we have this awareness, oh, so this is what I'm doing, how challenging it is to actually do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:20

Because we have to make space for the other inside ourselves. I make space for you only if you see things the way I see things. So now I have to learn how to make space inside myself with you seeing things differently. Am I able to do that? And this is self-practice in relationship. But this is my this is my growth. One of my growing points is to create space inside myself for you as you are.

SPEAKER_00 11:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:55

One of the questions that I'm I'm asking my couples is do you want, first of all, to make space for the other inside yourself? And they always say yes. Yes, that's why we're here. That's why we we pay for these sessions, that's why we invest in these sessions, because I want to make space. But what's happening then that you don't have the ability, or you you you can't make space because I don't feel safe. Because I think that the way I see things, even if I know conscience, I I know that the way I see things might be wrong. That's my reality. And the next thing is see maybe just you don't have to to give up your reality. By making space for the other doesn't mean that your reality is wrong. Doesn't mean that you don't have space for yourself in yourself.

SPEAKER_01 12:53

That's so important, isn't it, Roluca? That people think if I make space for you, then I don't I lose me in you, that somehow my values, my integrity, my ethics, my worldview has to change to be yours. So it's this black and white either-or sort of thinking.

SPEAKER_02 13:12

Yeah. And then we have to connect and to see that I see things my way and you see things your way, but our main and basic need is the same. As you said earlier, it's safety, it's belonging. So we know that in in our work that people come together because they have the same need but different coping mechanisms. Can we accept that we both want to belong? That we both want to be seen, to be heard, to be loved, to be accepted, to be validated, to be soothed. We both want the same thing. But the way we ask for that thing is different because we have different life history.

SPEAKER_01 13:54

I love this part about how we ask for that thing. So can you elaborate a little bit more on how people typically will ask for that thing in relationship before they really get the skills that they need to be able to ask for it in a way that they can get their needs met?

Politics, Polarization, And Relationship Mirrors

SPEAKER_02 14:11

I think the easiest way is to speak about my relationship in in our case, because I was raised with um rules and things that we have to do because this is how we do things. Um I I entered my relationship with so many rigid ideas about conflict, about the way we uh talk about things, about if we speak or not after a conflict, for example. So so many ideas about how things work. And I entered this relationship with all these rigid ideas, but I wanted to belong. I wanted to feel that I'm loved. My partner on the other side came from an environment where he learned that freedom is safety. When he has the freedom to do as he wants, as he thinks, as he feels, then he can create a safe environment for himself. So these two people met and they had different ideas about what belonging means and what safety means. I felt safe while having rules. He felt safe while not respecting.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

Because freedom was his value, right? So he needed freedom, and you were like, you needed the rigidity because you know it's how each of you grew up and what you knew and what worked in your your family of origin. It worked. Very good coping mechanisms for each of us. Most relationships end up right here after the you know, romantic, I'm in love, which is really such an interesting period of time and so powerful, right? That falling in love period where we can't eat, can't sleep, we want to be together all the time. Sex is great. We talk, we're so undefended. And then we end up here in this place where you need freedom and I need my safety, is all around the rules. So what happens? What does that usually look like in a relationship?

SPEAKER_02 16:15

The veil disappears from our prefrontal cortex, then we see the other and we don't project so many good things on him, then reality strikes. And we see that, yeah, we we are different because we have different coping mechanisms. We learn that we will be loved if we do or we do not do something else. And of course, all these things happen during conflictual situations. For example, when we have to decide where our child should go to school, then this conversation might appear. So I want to do research. I studied so many schools in our town. I went to see them, I went to meet the teachers, and then he came and said, okay, but we have to let the child explore. And let's go to with her to see all these schools, and maybe she will know how. She's seven years old. So, you know.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

So he was he was really putting a lot of trust in your daughter to make that decision based on her needs because of his need for freedom. And here you are with all this education, and you're thinking, well, if you do all the research, you're gonna find the right match.

SPEAKER_02 17:30

And not on not only the right match, but the perfect match.

SPEAKER_01 17:34

The perfect match.

SPEAKER_02 17:36

Yeah, one of my stories.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

Yeah, yeah, I I share that story. I share that story. It's kind of hard, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. So then what do you do with that? Tell me where where how did you and your husband navigate that?

SPEAKER_02 17:50

We we navigate it by working a lot with with ourselves and with our relationships. But one thing that I do while working uh with my clients is that I always try to dive and to find their need and to help them express to each other and to be aware of the fact that they both have the same need.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:13

For example, for for the kid to be happy or for the kid to feel safe in the environment. They both have the same need, but they have different ways to express that need. So while communicating, these differences they are there.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

Yeah.

The Hidden Agenda To Change Your Partner

SPEAKER_02 18:30

One of them will always have the need to be free and to feel free, and one of them will always have the need to have rules and to try to make things perfect. But at the same time, they have common topics and they need to navigate these topics together. So they have to hear each other while speaking about, while sharing about the fact that we are here in this conversation because we want the same thing. But the way we ask for that thing is different.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

Yeah, and how easy it would be to stay stuck in the, well, you just want her to make a decision, and I'm doing the right thing by researching, and you know, my my way is better, right? And and I what I find so interesting about our work is that it takes this problem up here, which is what school will she go to? I'm right, you're right, to a deeper level for ourselves, even in the decision making, and without going deeper to find out what's driving my need to have her in the right school and what's driving your need to let her explore in that we're really operating about us, and maybe unconsciously forgetting, like, well, this is this is our daughter's education, and she's an individual and she has these needs. But if we can do what you've talked about earlier, which is like to be safe and feel like we belong as a couple, then we have the freedom, as you said, to make that space for each other so we can explore all of the options without judgment.

SPEAKER_02 20:14

Yeah. Because it's rarely about the school, it's rarely about a vacation, it's rarely about the furniture that we buy.

SPEAKER_00 20:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:26

It's about the philosophy behind it, it's about the emotional reaction, it's about something that gets triggered inside of us.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 20:35

So we have to understand that.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

Well, and while we're talking about, I mean, I love the example that you've used with you and your husband because Kevin and I have many of those same experiences. Like I had decided that unconsciously that risk taking was bad. I had labeled that as bad. So that was absolutely a conscious decision to disown that part of myself. I didn't have those, that language then, but that was the truth. I would stay in a job if I was even mildly happy because it was predictable, safe. I knew what I was making every week. That was my my safety. So not very much in risk taking, exploring, paying attention to my needs, safety. And Kevin is an entrepreneur, which, you know, he has had restaurants and different businesses. And, you know, he we would have a fight like he wanted to open a new office. And I was so, you know, negative about it. And so what he heard was a critic. And what I was actually feeling was unsafe because I didn't understand it and I was afraid. So here we were in that dance for a pretty long time before we did our Imago work. And and because of accepting those differences and then the ability to connect with my lost parts, I was able to say, Wow, I'll take a little risk here. I didn't jump. Right in. But I was able to do that. And really, if you if I think about it, it's why I'm able to do this podcast today, because I wouldn't have taken any kind of risk like this. You know, so the growth that you're talking about today is yes, we have to accept these differences before we can really delve into seeing the gold in the other person. And I think it's really like a place where I find with my clients it's really difficult for them to start saying, I have these lost parts. Can you tell us a little bit more? How does a couple or an individual who might be listening to our podcast, how do they begin to explore their lost parts? If they're not in couples therapy, if they don't have an Imago therapist, how would you maybe suggest that they would begin that journey?

SPEAKER_02 22:48

I was just thinking while you were sharing about Kevin and his risk taking, I was just thinking, what an entrepreneur without risk taking.

SPEAKER_01 22:56

Absolutely.

Making Space For Two Realities

SPEAKER_02 22:57

Entrepreneur means that that person has the ability to take risks in different situations. And it makes sense why he married someone that is so aversive to risk taking, right? We know that in in in Imago. But one question that I was thinking about while listening to you is this this idea that if I I don't take risks, of course I win my safety. If I don't take risks, I win my safety. The way I see safety.

SPEAKER_01 23:28

The way I see safety.

SPEAKER_02 23:29

At the same time, I'm losing things. What am I losing when I don't take risks?

SPEAKER_01 23:36

So much, so much, Raluca. And I think that's a great question to for anyone to sit and think, you know, I'm holding on to this in my relationship. And it and I'm holding on to it for good reason. You know, my I I had a mom who was a big risk taker, and it never looked very safe. I didn't experience any safety in risk taking. However, as you said, I I never really asked myself the other side of that. What am I losing staying in this very rigid, safe place by not exploring, you know, this possibility? So it's a great it's a really great question, Raluca. What am I losing holding on to this?

SPEAKER_02 24:18

This was, I think, one of the main questions that I asked myself during so many years in my relationship. My relationship and my relationships. What am I losing if I I don't feel safe while exploring, as you said. What am I losing when I don't let my kid explore, for example, because I need him to know that I'm taking care of everything in order for her to feel safe.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 24:55

What the relationship is losing.

SPEAKER_01 24:57

Yeah, yeah. So such a good point from a parenting point of view that when we're locked in, what kind of message are we giving our children about what is safe? What is why is exploration so important? What are we limiting in them that could really grow and that they may have to go to therapy and find later? So they'll be reclaiming parts.

SPEAKER_02 25:22

So I think that connecting with our last parts at the beginning means asking ourselves, what are the things that we don't feel safe doing? I don't feel safe exploring, I don't feel safe going to the mountains, I don't feel safe. And just try to ask ourselves why. Why is this fear of doing all these things inside of me? And as you said, this fear was inside of you because you had this risk-taking mother that that sended this idea that the world is not safe, the relationships are not safe if you take risks. So of course, then when you see some possibility of some risks in front of you, then you are activated. And what you do is that no, the world and me and you, we have to do this and this and this. Because if we take risks, then we are not safe.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

And what's also interesting, Raluca, is that my first husband was um an entrepreneur. I didn't have a Mago then. And so why this is so interesting is to marry two entrepreneurs for a woman who was risk adverse. It's that unconscious desire to reclaim those parts, but we don't have language for that. We don't know. I mean, without information that is is out there now, how we can live a whole life unconsciously and blame the other person and divorce them and marry somebody else with the same stuff.

SPEAKER_02 26:52

And we are attracted to something that we then don't like.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

Yeah. Yes. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 27:01

And and I always tell my couples that our nervous system will never want something that already has. Say that again. I love that. Our nervous system will not want for something that already has. If I have rules and I'm I have this way of doing things, I don't want that. I hate that. Yes. I want something that I don't have. So of course I want freedom. And of course I want to explore. Of course I want to take risks, but I don't have an inner language for it. But someone has, and I sleep with that man. So that's how our nervous systems reclaim the whole. I like to call it the nervous system closes the circle.

Same Needs, Different Coping

SPEAKER_01 27:50

Beautiful. I've never heard that before. The nervous system closes the circle. I like that. Because it is so interesting, though, even when we know, like you've so beautifully described your husband as having this freedom and willingness to explore, and that's where his his safety lies. And you weren't attracted to a guy with like rigid perfectionism, you know. So you find this man who has the things you want, and then we fight against it because the nervous system doesn't want what it already has. I just I love that connection. That's beautiful.

unknown 28:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:31

And and then, and then that willingness, you know, to step into that. When you said we don't have anything inside of us, we don't have any really good, or I should say, I didn't have any good history really with risk taking until I started to look at it. You know, I found some areas where I really did take some big risks, but I was also really aware that the risks I took, like say skiing a black diamond, I knew I could do it. So that's not so much of a risk. When you know that you can do something and you have total fake. Yeah, yeah. I mean, and as I looked at like, I went to school in London and I left my family and my yeah, but I knew I could do that. So it's was that really a risk? So I think I could lie to myself and say, oh, I take risks, but not ones that I didn't know I could do. Yeah. And so that is the part that I love about our partners being able to teach us about those things rather than what we typically do is reject their ideas and criticize them and shame them for having them.

SPEAKER_02 29:36

And I always tell my couples that you don't have to do what he or she is doing. Reclaiming our lost parts. It's not always about doing what we lost or or or you know, it's about accepting the fact that this is something that I really don't understand inside myself. I cognitively understand it, but I don't feel it.

SPEAKER_01 29:59

Yes. Yes. Yes. And I think what you're saying is also really important, that we're not taught you and I have talked about for me, risk taking, for you, the desire to explore. And these were things that we wanted to move toward. But I think what you're highlighting is also really important that sometimes just understanding that that's the difference that we have, it doesn't mean necessarily that we have to do those things. So I think our listeners need to hear that piece too.

SPEAKER_02 30:28

Yes, it's it's not about integrating everything, it's about understanding, it's about how we were created because of our life history. To know that I have the ability to take risks, but only in this slice in my life. But for the others, I will let Kevin do it.

SPEAKER_00 30:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 30:50

I want to explore, but I don't want to hike and meet bears. We have so many.

SPEAKER_01 30:56

So you're saying you like the exploring, but like you're limiting it on the bears. Like you'll do some exploring, but that's for me, thank you. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 31:05

So it's about knowing my limits and just trying to expand a little bit my inner world, and at the same time accept the fact that I will feel whole if I accept you inside myself. And my nervous system will have this experience of wholeness because I know that you are different, but I accept that you are different. So could you say that one more time? My nervous system will have this experience of wholeness, not because I know that you are different, but because I accept that you are different.

Rules Versus Freedom: A Real Couple Story

SPEAKER_01 31:42

That's beautiful. And what it makes me think of is how much wasted energy there is in the power struggle. And I think about couples, I remember in early trainings, I think it might have been Wendy Patterson that said, one plus one can equal one. One plus one can be less than one, but one plus one can be greater than one, greater than two, rather. And that struck me so big because I thought in the power struggle, fighting about what we think is school, and it's not about schools or choices or risk taking and opening a new office. But in that energy of the power struggle, so much energy is put into that versus what we could be doing in the world, how we could be helping people, how we could be more attentive to our children, like live a full life. When you're in it though, you're not aware that you're in it because you don't realize everybody goes through it, too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:43

Yeah, we don't realize that we're there and we have so many, at least I, when I am am in different types of power struggle, I have this ability to rationalize everything. And and I'm also a psychologist and a couples therapist, you know, we have so many theories and we know so many things. Well, we don't see. We have so many blind spots, actually. Yes. And psychologists and so on. So yeah, we don't see when we are in a power struggle. But when we go, for example, to couples therapy, we have this third eye.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:20

That can see what we are not able to see. And of course we don't see because we are hurt, because we are in pain, because I want you to soothe my pain. I don't care about your perspective. It's about having this third eye, having someone that can guide us into this experience of understanding each other and accepting each other and expressing things that we are not able to express while we are in power struggle.

SPEAKER_01 33:47

Yeah, it's so true. And that third eye is so interesting because as an observer, if people even think about their friendships, when you're going through something and your friend can remind you of something that happened before or your strength you have, because they're not looking at it through your eyes. And so then when you have a trained therapist to help you navigate all this through workshops and and hopefully couple sessions, that you can really make a huge difference in your relationship in a very short period of time.

SPEAKER_02 34:21

Yeah. Because we are not symbiotic. A couple is symbiotic. While the couple is in love, while they are power in the power struggle, they are symbiotic. They see things the way they think the world is, and they cannot outgrow that situation.

SPEAKER_01 34:39

And for our listeners, when we we say a lot of words in our work about symbiosis and things, but tell them what that really means in English.

SPEAKER_02 34:48

I think it's the ability, the lack of ability to see differences, because this is what they say that a couple grows or a couple exits the symbiotic phase when the couple trains the ability to see and accept differences.

SPEAKER_01 35:06

Yeah, and th what someone once said, and symbiosis is sort of like we are one and I am the one. You know, that that yes, we are one. And if we do everything my way, this is gonna go really well. And really survived. Right. Right. And that those coping mechanisms that we use, like I remember growing up and shutting down when my mother would be angry, and that worked for me then. It was very, it was the right thing to do. We all have these survival coping mechanisms. And then in my adult relationships, it didn't work. And so I had to find a new way, and that was hard. I mean, it's hard on your nervous system to try something new that actually is going to get you the love that you want. It's very hard to take that risk.

SPEAKER_02 35:54

It's very hard to take that risk, but you know that it's we have to do something new, but it's not that new because what we know in our work is that the partner is the best teacher for ourselves. So, yeah, it's new for ourselves, but we see it in front of us every day.

SPEAKER_01 36:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 36:15

What we have to learn to do. Freedom, risk taking is something that we see in our relationships because the other has it.

SPEAKER_00 36:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:25

It's not only about accepting differences, but also accepting the fact that the best teacher in your life is that man or that woman that pushes your buttons because he pushes your buttons.

SPEAKER_01 36:40

Absolutely, that's so true. And then I like when couples are doing their vision in the workshop to invite people to add that we are we are okay with mistakes because as we're navigating this journey, we're not gonna do it perfectly. But that support that the other person sees our efforts to reach across to their world and understand the way they're seeing things is a big step. But when it's when it's noticed, and my my uh partner will acknowledge that, wow, I see how hard you're trying to do this, I know it's difficult for you. Thank you for trying. That makes all the safety and the connection so much stronger. But if we say, oh, that I tried that and it didn't work one time after, you know, being involved in life for 30 years using the same strategies and coping mechanisms, and it doesn't work the first couple times, I think we're being so hard on ourselves and each other.

It’s Not About The School, It’s The Trigger

SPEAKER_02 37:42

I think that one of the most difficult things for me during the training, the basic training, was when I heard Rebecca saying about accepting mistakes and honoring mistakes. And she also said, and I know the moment and I know the place where we were when she said celebrating mistakes. And for a perfectionist, you can imagine how that's and I was like, okay, this this doesn't work in our culture, you know, Rebecca. This is this is not working here. You have to you have to teach us something else because this thing with accepting mistakes, this is not true. We're not gonna do it. We punish mistakes, we criticize mistakes, we humiliate people because they do mistakes, we don't accept and honor and celebrate. And after all these years of training, I really, really, really feel the fact that, and I know and I also feel that accepting mistakes and accepting the fact that I don't know how to do things, but I'm willing to try. And I know that there is no brain that learns without trial and error. None of us learn without trying and error. This is something that really, really works. But we have to understand the fact that the brain learns everything by using two mechanisms, trial and error and repetition. Nothing else works. So this is something that we have to do in our relationships. Accept the fact that we are going to try to accept the other, to understand the other, to accept differences, but it's not going to always work. And then we will fail and try again and fail and try again, but we have to stick with the process.

SPEAKER_01 39:24

Yes. What wise words? You know, I think you said trial and error and practice over and over again. Rehearsal. What was the other word you used? Repetition. Repetition. Oh, no, that's no, it's uh it's the perfect word. It's trial and error. This is how we learn trial and error and repetition. And I think that's so basic that if people can kind of put that in their minds about, you know, this whole exploration of it's okay to make mistakes, that I'm learning something new. If I was learning piano, I wouldn't be playing Chopin, I would be playing chopsticks or whatever it is, because I'm learning. I've got to try with baby steps, and and then I know that I'm gonna learn from my mistakes. And then when I repeat what works over time, that becomes a part of us. And there's the integration that you talked about.

SPEAKER_02 40:13

Because this is how we learned life. This is how we learn how to live, this is how we learned everything. But being an adult, we have this illusion that we have to find another mechanism in order to learn new things. No, the brain needs the same mechanism.

SPEAKER_01 40:31

Just try and fail and try again. Yeah, beautiful. I so love that. And I think what's so important to me about this podcast is that many people will never get to our door. Many people will never get to a workshop. But this knowledge that many, many therapists all over the world have, if we can get this out to the masses, you know, it's just so makes us so human. And then when you said, even though I'm a psychotherapist, even though I've been practicing a long time, that I too, you know, struggled with this sometimes because we're human. And I think sometimes they think the therapists, you know, that because we know we just can do everything perfectly. And it's just not true. It's a challenge, it's a stretch, but it's certainly that stretching that really kind of has helped me embrace all of life. And uh, and that's something that's pretty exciting. Is there anything that you'd like to close with today that you want to tell our listeners that maybe we haven't said? I think we haven't said so many things about these subjects that it seems that we both like so much. Yes. Yes. Well, maybe you'll come back again and tell us more. You have so much to share. And do you have, I know that many of our listeners are not going to be studying in Romania, but I really would like to know what are your upcoming events in Romania? And if you could just tell us a little bit about what is coming up in your future.

SPEAKER_02 42:01

Well, we have a full, full year uh Imago year in Romania. We say that we have a full Imago year in Romania because we have two groups of training, of basic trainings ongoing. And then we're going to start a workshop presenter training in in March. And then I think we have scheduled three advanced classes for for our trainees. So we have so many things going on. And I think that one of the main things that I've really like to do is to teach. When people ask me what's my job, I say that I am a psychologist, but you know, I think I'm a teacher actually, because I really, really enjoy teaching and working with our trainees is something that really fills my heart because I know that I I I can work with my couples in my office, but while I'm teaching, I know that there are so many couples that will benefit. Yeah. Because we have so many trainees that we work with. So beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 43:02

And I I too would agree with you that my my favorite thing to do is teaching. And I think for the same reason that, you know, really making an impact, if we can teach other people about this work that we do, so many other couples will be healed and um and families will be happier and whole. And that that feels very complete for me.

SPEAKER_02 43:25

Yeah. And I'm thinking that we can close with with this question. Maybe our listeners can ask themselves, what am I losing when I'm not accepting?

Reclaiming Lost Parts Without Losing Yourself

SPEAKER_01 43:35

What am I losing when I'm not accepting? And what what will I might have to gain by accepting is what's possible for me to then embrace if I could accept these things. And you said it my partner is my best teacher. Relationships are the best teacher. And one last thing that you talked about early in our uh podcast was you got into this because in your individual session. That you found that everyone that came in was talking about relationships individually. And I too have come to the conclusion that every problem that we have is a relationship. It might be a relationship with food. It might be a relationship with alcohol. It might be a relationship with someone who's passed away. But if we really look through the lens of relationship and want healthy relationships with every aspect of our life, I think these are really important questions to explore. So thank you, Reluca. I'm so happy you did this with me today. I know it's the end of your workday in Romania. And so it's so kind of you to give your time. And I look forward to seeing you soon. And um maybe we'll have a follow-up because this is such important work that you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 44:49

Maybe we'll have a follow-up and can wait to see each other in April because we're going to see each other again in April.

SPEAKER_01 44:56

Oh yeah, I'm so excited you'll be in Costa Rica. I did not know that. So we have a faculty meeting every year and it's a different part of the world. And so I didn't know that you were going. I'm so excited that I'll get to see you there again. Again. Well, thank you for being with us and thank you all for listening today. This is the Relationship Blueprint where we unlock your power of connection. And we are going to be back to regular podcasts. So you can join us. And if you want to submit comments and ask for topics, we are happy to do that. We are happy to be back. And we wish everybody a joyful new year 2026. Although there are lots of things around us to bring us down, I think there are as many things to lift us up. And hopefully, really rebuilding or strengthening your relationships will be part of your plan. Thanks again, everybody. Have a good day.