Radio Front Desk

One patient, three referrals: The ripple effect of patient communication | Dr. Kellen Scantlebury of Fit Club New York

• Jane.app • Episode 12

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In this episode, we’re back with Dr. Kellen Scantlebury, founder of Fit Club NY. Dr. Kellen has always done things a little differently — and his clinic is a testament to that. This time around, we tackle big topics like keeping patients accountable, growing your network, and rebooking strategies that actually work.


What You’ll Learn

  • How to create a clinic environment that encourages rebooking
  • What it means to “drive the bus” as a practitioner—and why it matters
  • How to creatively expand your services


Guest Bio

Dr. Kellen Scantlebury is the founder of Fit Club NY, a cutting-edge physical therapy clinic in New York specializing in sports rehab, injury prevention, and performance training. With a background in strength training and a passion for redefining clinic culture, Kellen helps active individuals stay at the top of their game.

Resources mentioned


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Radio Front Desk is Brought to You by Jane

Ever wish patient follow-ups could take care of themselves? Jane’s rebooking reminders do just that! They’re like a gentle nudge for your patients to come back, so you don’t have to chase them down (or even think about it). If today’s chat got you wondering how to boost retention without coming across as pushy, this is totally worth checking out. Learn more about Jane’s Rebooking Reminders.

Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional medical, legal, or financial advice.

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast host or its affiliates.


Speaker 1:

How does that make you feel as a patient? I'm the patient. I'm coming to see you. Aren't you supposed to tell me what to do? And that is tragic. That is a travesty. No physical therapist should be, in my opinion, should be letting the patient drive the bus when it comes to treatments. The physical therapist should come prepared with a plan every single time.

Speaker 2:

Welcome back to Radio Front Desk by GNAP. I'm your host, denzel Ford. In today's episode, we're back with a familiar face and a friend of the show, dr Kellen Scantabury, founder of Fit Club New York. Dr Kellen has always done things a little differently, and his clinic is living proof. Things a little differently, and his clinic is living proof. This time around we're tackling big topics like keeping patients accountable, growing your network and rebooking strategies that actually work. Okay, let's get into it, kellen. Welcome back to Radio Front Desk. How are you today?

Speaker 1:

I'm amazing, super excited to be here. How are you?

Speaker 2:

I'm good. So the first time we chatted we were virtual and you were in New York City and I was here in North Van, and now you're here with me.

Speaker 1:

Canada's been amazing so far. Very much looking forward to exploring Vancouver the rest of the day as well.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think you're going to have some fun. So last time you were here we were talking about your clinic, Fit Club New York, and this time I want to kind of do something a little different.

Speaker 2:

And then I'm thinking of it as like a special topic, if you will, and specifically I'm hoping to talk about how do you keep clients engaged and coming back. So let me say a little more on that. It's a conversation I was having with our co-founder and co-CEO, Allie, and her thought was that if you put more energy into actually rebooking the people that are in your clinic, it can be more powerful in those early days than marketing. My first question for you is what do you think about when you're first getting started? Is it marketing or is it rebooking?

Speaker 1:

I agree it is. For me and how I built my business was a thousand percent rebooking. It's much easier to work with what you have versus always trying to go out and find new potential patients or clients. Someone said it to me it was like the best way to get new work is the current work that's on your desk right. Having great experiences with the people who are already your patients, already your clients, already in your community is super important.

Speaker 1:

I think when the pressure is on and it's like I have to like see patients and clients to pay the bills, it can be more stressful than fun, and a lot of new physical therapists who might be starting practices feel that pressure. Everything is all good and sweet when you work for someone else. You don't really care if you see two patients or if you see 20 patients because you're getting paid a salary right. So maybe there's incentives if you see more people, but there's not a lot of skin in the game. But when it's your business and your baby and you see two patients, you can grow or pay your bills or pay yourself on just that amount of value.

Speaker 1:

So rebooking patients is key and one of the ways that I was able to do that was by having fun, like creating an environment, a culture inside the clinic where people have a good time, our clients, they share stories with each other. It's not just like all in a private room where it's just like very isolated and only you're talking with the therapist who's working with you, so you're talking to other patients, other clients who might be going through similar things, might be going through similar experiences in life. Our patients, our clients. They don't go home and talk about oh, you know, dr Kells did this mobilization technique on my ankle or my neck. They go and say, oh, I had a great time today, I had fun and I was able to share certain experiences with other people who are going through similar situations. And that, I think, is just as valuable as the skills of being a physical therapist.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, what about? I'm just thinking of my own experience and, like there's also certain treatments physical therapy, for example, isn't always the most, I don't know. Sometimes it's painful is what I'm trying to say. The treatment is actually painful sometimes but if you can put the fun in there with that, that takes away some of the pain, takes away some of the hurt.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, when you can share some of that pain with others, it also helps on the mental side. A lot of what we do is, yes, it's physical therapy, but there's so much that we do for our patients mentally as well. I can tell you hundreds of guys, girls, kids who've cried on our table because of us releasing things that not just affect their musculoskeletal system, but also what's going on mentally for them trauma. So, yeah, it's definitely important to tap into that and know that again, things may be painful. How can we ease that pain for our patients and our clients and community?

Speaker 2:

What makes a practitioner that is good at what you're talking about making that environment fun, offering the treatment, but also getting people back in the door.

Speaker 1:

I think that's a great question and it's funny that you asked this because I was actually going to put a poll on Instagram about it, so I'm going to do it on this podcast live Awesome. So for any physical therapist listening, I need you to answer this question who is the better physical therapist? Physical therapist A you have a patient with shoulder pain. You get them better in five visits. They leave the office and never come back. They had a great experience, they're healed and they have positive things to say about their time there. That's physical therapist A. Physical therapist B same issue. That person stays with you for 25 visits. They also have an awesome experience. Their plan of care was a lot longer. It may have taken a little bit longer to get there, but they were able to 5X the amount of visits that that person came into the office. Who do most people think is the better physical therapist? So I want to get that answer.

Speaker 2:

Can I guess?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I would love for you to guess.

Speaker 2:

All right, and why I'm really stepping into the dark here. Answer. Can I guess? Yeah, I would love for you to guess all right.

Speaker 1:

So, and, and why?

Speaker 2:

and why right? I'm really stepping in the dark here, kevin but I'm gonna do it.

Speaker 2:

I'm gonna do it, take a leap of faith I think the the most obvious answer might be the b, the, the 25, because if you just think about it from a business perspective, like just money, you got 25 visits versus five visits. So maybe that's the way you're thinking about it, that you're going to get more revenue with 25 visits. But I'm actually going to say a because I think a is gonna and I think I'm a in the clinics that I go to, because what I do is they fix my problem, and then I won't shut up about it.

Speaker 2:

I tell everybody you have to go to this clinic, you have to go visit whoever. I thought like they totally fixed my shoulder. So that's my, that's my non-clinic owner, non-practitioner, just sort of in your world as I am. Answer. What do you think?

Speaker 1:

So I'm inclined to choose physical therapist B, and for a multitude of reasons. So the classic answer in our world is it depends, right? So that's the classic physical therapy answer. But for, as a practice owner, building equity with people over time is so valuable. And not to say that you can't build some equity in five visits, but the personal connection that you have over 25 visits at that point you're friends, you know, and you're like homies. You know you want to get drinks with your physical therapist after I don't indulge that, please, anyone don't do that but the equity that you built with them.

Speaker 1:

Another saying that I always tell my team is for every one patient that you have, that should lead to two or three more patients just from giving them a great experience, right? Yeah, and I think, specifically, a lot of newer physical therapists associate physical therapy with pain relief. And yes, we can reduce pain in the first four to five visits. But we're not just pain relief doctors, right, you can get that through Tylenol, you can get that through medicine. What we're trying to help people do is move more efficiently, build strength, build endurance and reduce the rate of re-injury, and I just think it's very hard to achieve that as a clinician in only five visits. I think we can definitely get rid of pain in five visits. But then doing the other things, I think that takes a little bit more time and a little bit more equity.

Speaker 2:

I'm going to keep on this and caveat my answer.

Speaker 3:

Let's do it.

Speaker 2:

Let's do it I don't like to not get a good grade, but I notice when I'm hearing you talk about the 25 sessions that I'm maybe somewhere in the middle because I'll do the five or whatever, where I get better for that issue or that round, and then I go back because it gets aggravated again or because I push a little too hard and whatever happens happens Right. So I think it might be like some version of a hybrid between those two, where I am getting my problem solved and then I do get back, problem solved and then I do get back in the gym and I do get back into my activities.

Speaker 1:

Um, but then life happens and then I need to go back but but what you hit on something there you said, things pop up and they come back, right. So that, I think, goes a little bit to my point where we want to help people to get to the point where these things don't come back. I think we leave a lot on the table when we discharge five visits because, again, building the strength, building their endurance, building the mobility patterns, teaching people how to, basically relearning how to move, so that these things don't come back, right? I think that is a key piece and it just it doesn't get spoken about to patients enough from physical therapists.

Speaker 1:

I think owners think about that, or maybe not every owner thinks about it, but I would envision people who've been practicing for a longer time think about that because they have had patients who they've seen in five visits who've come back for the same injuries. So it's like, hey, listen, I know your pain is diminished, you have zero pain right now, but I'm still seeing these one or two factors that for me, as a skilled clinician, I think can lead to re-injury. Let's work another five to six sessions specifically on this so that these things don't come back, and then maybe if you need to come back, you know, once a month, once every three weeks, as a little check-in to make sure that these things aren't coming back. We can do that. It's having those conversations with patients. That I think is super helpful, super fruitful, and I just don't think enough physical therapists are actually having this sit down right at the end of a session. There's a lot of hidden gems in just communication with our patients and our communities.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think it applies to all the disciplines that would be listening to this as well, hey there, christina, here Just a quick moment to share that this episode is brought to you by Jane.

Speaker 3:

We know how much heart you put into building a practice you're proud of, and that's why we're here to make things like scheduling, charting and payments run a little smoother. If you'd like to take a peek head to janeapp forward, slash pricing, because we love a good bonus don't forget to use the code radiofrontdask for a one-month grace period. Okay, I'll keep it short and sweet.

Speaker 2:

Back to the episode. This sort of brings me to thinking about the resource that you created for us your playbook, if you will. I just love it so much. There's so many great tips that you gave to people and we'll link that in the show notes for everybody who's listening. But the thing I want to talk about that's related to this conversation is in it you say realize that you drive the bus, and this is something that I talked to our co-founder and co-CEO, allie. A lot about is like how that's what makes a good practitioner is realizing and having strategies for actually driving the bus with patients. In her case, she feels it because she has three kids and you know she's like if you give me exercises to take home, I'm not going to do them.

Speaker 2:

If you rebook me, I'll come and we'll do them. So she's making a pretty provocative point that like, literally the course of like, finding the health that you're seeking is only through rebooking in some cases. But I wonder what you think about that. Can you say more on what you put into the playbook about the practitioner really driving the bus?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so I'll give another. For instance, let's just say you're a patient and you go to a physical therapist and you have low back pain.

Speaker 2:

I do have that you do Most people do.

Speaker 1:

And you're like. The therapist asks well, what do you want to do today? Yeah, how does that make you feel as a patient? Like I'm the patient I'm coming to see you. Aren't you supposed to tell me what to do? And that is tragic, that is a travesty.

Speaker 1:

No physical therapist should be, in my opinion, should be letting the patient drive the bus. When it comes to treatments, the physical therapist should come prepared with a plan every single time Eval, follow-up, progress note, discharge, visit every single time you should have a plan and the patient may come in and say oh well, I was coming in from my bag, but my knee hurts today, okay, revert, different plan, right. But always have something in mind and again, I think this is a lot with the newer physical therapists it's these patient-led treatments, asking the patient what they want to do today. And, yes, the patient should be involved. It's a team, but every team has a captain and the physical therapist needs to be that captain driving the bus. As skilled physical therapists, skilled medical professionals, we need to be captains of the plans of care and I think too many people are being bystanders to that plan of care versus driving that bus. But you also touched base on home exercises, and I think that that is also a very important topic.

Speaker 1:

A lot of people need accountability, and that again goes back to the five visits or the 25 visits. Everyone on earth can look up on YouTube exercises for low back pain. That information is there. Everyone on earth can look up exercises on YouTube for how to rehab an ankle injury. That information is there. Are they doing it? Is the question right? So humans need accountability, right? There's so many people who say I just need, I need to have it on my schedule, I need to show up and I need someone expecting me to be there for me to do that. There's so many people who fall into that category and those are the majority of people who are coming into the offices, the people who can do it on their own. They are. They're not coming into our offices, right? So I think understanding that is super vital. Like if someone's coming into your office looking for you, for your help, help them direct the bus, give them a full plan and if they want to deviate from that plan, educate them on why they shouldn't.

Speaker 2:

Is there anything else that's important to what you said at the beginning? Leveraging who's already with you, like tactical things, like how someone would set up their schedule. Or do you have to worry about that in New York City? Like offering appointments in the evenings and the weekends. Is there other things like that that matter?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, a thousand percent. There's some people who are currently on your schedule right now who are super connectors Right and those are people that can connect you to 10, 12 new patients Right. There's people on your schedule right now who are mild connectors, who can connect you to two to five new patients the patients that you have. That's your lifeline. It's so much harder and it takes so much more money and effort to get new patients in the door versus nurturing the patients that you currently have. Make them feel whole, make them feel at home, make them feel that they're the most important visit of the day and I guarantee you'll start to have more visits on your schedule. You mentioned marketing. Marketing is just a lot of spent money.

Speaker 1:

You know you got to spend money on a coordinator, you got to spend money on ads, you got to spend money on SEO, and that's a lot of resources out the door. So you want to make sure that home base is sort of fulfilled first and that's just by making sure that again you're giving a kick ass service to the people you already have, because your clinics aren't just physical therapy clinics.

Speaker 2:

You offer all kinds of services, so could you talk about the role of these additional services that you offer and how you think that plays into this idea of getting people back in?

Speaker 1:

So when I started Fit Club, it was never with the idea of just being a physical therapy clinic. I always wanted to help people bridge that gap between physical therapy and fitness. And as we started to grow and grow and grow again, I was tapping into my patients and the communities that we lived in. Being in the communities, being in the groups on Facebook hey, I really wish we had a pelvic floor physical therapist here in this neighborhood. Like, there's so many young families here Really wish that we had kids fitness classes right.

Speaker 1:

So being in tune to the communities is important, because then you hear certain people say the same things over and over and, over and over again and you just think like, hey, I have those skills, this is something that I'm passionate about, this is something that I like doing and this is a need for my community. Let's match that passion with the need. So that's how a lot of the services that we provide that's how they were born was by listening to our community and also understanding my innate strengths and the strengths of my team, which we outlined in that playbook. There it's not work, it's fun. And again, when you're having fun, so are your patients, because, yeah, physical therapy is a part of life. Not everyone's going to be hurt for their entire life, but people want to be fit and healthy for their entire life.

Speaker 1:

And again, I don't want to leave anything on the table by just offering them a portion of what I can really offer them in their full lifespan.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you also have a corporate wellness program. Can you describe that a little bit? Really offer them in their full lifespan? Yeah, you also have a corporate wellness program. Can you describe that a little bit? I think it's a little bit different than what we're talking about here. How did you decide on that one and what is it structured like?

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So again, just knowing the nature of New York City, how many different businesses are in our quote unquote playground, and also knowing the macro environment specifically after COVID, businesses started to put a bigger emphasis on employee wellness, making sure that their employees were healthy, for me it was low hanging fruit to come up with different programs, whether it was on-site yoga, on-site health fairs, ergonomic setup, personal training in certain offices that have gyms. It was, again just knowing New York City and the amount of businesses that are there and the amount of profit that they have, and knowing how budgets work, I know they're allocating a certain amount of funds for the health and wellness of their employees. So once that became more apparent to me, it just made complete sense to also service that community. Another note is, again, these clients and employees are the ones with the health insurance right. So it's just like a lot of factors that just like made complete sense for me.

Speaker 1:

Again, I don't want to leave anything on the table. It is so hard to grow a business in New York City and the whole build it and they will come is dead Like no one's coming if you don't promote yourself, change, evolve. Mcdonald's would have been dead. Apple would have is dead, like no one's coming. If you don't promote yourself, change, evolve. Mcdonald's would have been dead. Apple would have been dead. All of these companies would have been dead if they didn't change and evolve with the times. So for me, it was again super important to be nimble and able to move where the trends were moving. So corporate wellness is a part of that. We've been able to work with some financial service companies and it's been really fruitful. They've gotten a ton of value from a wellness perspective, from a reduction in burnout and improving employee satisfaction, and we've been able to meet more people, help more people and get paid for the services that we've been able to provide Very cool.

Speaker 2:

So let's just get a little bit more broad, help more people and get paid for the services that we've been able to provide Very cool. So let's just get a little bit more broad and just talk about the industry in general. This is just like an open ended question. I don't have any idea where you're going to go with it, but I just wonder how do you see the industry evolving from here, and are there any trends just generally in healthcare that you think people would be interested in?

Speaker 1:

in healthcare that you think people would be interested in. I think we're in a unique time. I'll say it that way. I think there's a lot of big players out there who are at this point so big they're almost like unstoppable, and that is a good and bad thing for me. I'll explain why. I think that that's good because they're not going to be able to win in the customer service, the quality, the experience, because it's just manufactured at this point. It's cookie cutter. It's every patient with this point it's cookie cutter. It's every patient with this gets that. Every patient with this gets that. And it's patients are more of a number than an individual right, but there's a lot of money supporting them, a lot of private equity supporting these companies.

Speaker 1:

So a lot of smaller businesses are feeling that pressure of having to make rent, make payroll, and it's tough because those are the ones who are really trying to win at the quality game versus the quantity game. I unfortunately see the big guys just getting bigger and bigger and bigger because they can withstand losses for longer periods of time, other than the smaller mom-and-pop shops. So I think that will continue, but I do think the smaller mom and pop shops that can withstand this sort of turbulent time and make it through to the other side, will have a real, unique opportunity to grow to levels that they never thought was possible. My hope and dreams are that the smaller companies that are providing kick-ass services make it through this tough time For anyone listening who is feeling the pressure. My wish and hopes for you is just to keep going. Don't stop. You never know when you're right on the other side of a breakthrough.

Speaker 2:

Thank you so much for being here, Kellen, I mean this has been amazing. You've given us so many insights for our listeners, so it's been great having you. Thank you.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for having me and again check out that playbook. There's a bunch of free, helpful tips and tricks for all therapists out there. Make sure you check that out.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for the plug. I was supposed to do that. Do my job for me. I love it. Thanks for tuning in to Radio Front Desk. If you found this episode helpful, it would mean so much to me if you gave it a rating and leave a review letting me know what you think. And if you're a fan, you can subscribe to Radio Front Desk on Apple Music, spotify and wherever you get your podcasts.