Radio Front Desk

Why year-end accounting feels so heavy for clinic owners (and how to turn it into a process you actually enjoy)

• Jane.app • Season 2 • Episode 27

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What is it about tax season that makes us feel like we’re falling behind?

In this episode, Denzil sits down with Andrew Riesen, co-founder of Heard, to talk about the financial side of running a clinic.

Andrew gets real about the emotions behind money management and why so many clinicians struggle to stay on top of it. But he also talks about how to replace that overwhelm with confidence. 

This conversation is raw and open, and teaches you simple habits that make your numbers feel less intimidating and your decisions a little clearer.

🇺🇸 Quick note: Some details in this episode reference the U.S. tax structure, but many of the ideas apply broadly. 


What You’ll Learn:

  • Why “good enough” bookkeeping beats a perfect system you’ll never stick to
  • Simple first steps to separate business and personal finances
  • What counts as a deduction (and what most clinic owners miss)
  • How to build financial habits that make time off (and tax time) possible
  • When it’s time to call in a professional

Guest Bio


Andrew Riesen is a mission-driven entrepreneur, financial accountant, and CEO of Heard, the financial back-office for therapists in private practice. Prior to Heard, Andrew worked at PWC, where he worked as a financial accountant, helped build an internal software incubator, and co-founded an affordable sales tax solution for small to medium-sized businesses

When not supporting mental health professionals in private practice, Andrew can be found exploring the nooks and crannies of the Pacific Northwest trail-running, cycling, or snowboarding, or at home with his nose in a book or journal.


Resources mentioned


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We talk a lot about feeling prepared for year-end in this episode. And Jane knows this is true for your account as well. 


That’s why the team put together Jane's Tips for Year-End: a guide that breaks down everything you might want to consider for a smooth rollover into the new year. You can even find a printable year-end checklist to help you stay on track with your tasks. 


Learn more about Jane's Tips for Year-End


Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional medical, legal, or financial advice.


The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the guests and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast host or its affiliates.


SPEAKER_01:

If the words year-end tax prep make your eyes glaze over, I get it. There's just something about this season that can make us feel like we're behind before we even get started.

SPEAKER_02:

Thank you to everybody that's listening in and wanting to learn about accounting. You're incredibly nerdy, but I'm also very grateful for you.

SPEAKER_01:

Our guest today, Andrew Reason, knows that feeling well. He's the co-founder of an accounting platform called Herd. And in this episode, he shares small habits you can start doing today for a smoother tax season. This is Radio Front Desk by Jane App. And I'm Denzel Ford. Let's get into it. Andrew, welcome to Radio Front Dusk. How's it going?

SPEAKER_02:

Good. Excited to be here.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, glad you're here. Before we dive in, I wanted to set a quick scene because I think this one is going to feel familiar to our listeners. So it's mid-December. Your clients are trying to squeeze in those last appointments before the holidays. Your inbox is overflowing. And somewhere probably under a half-empty coffee mug, there's a sticky note that says due 2025 taxes. And maybe you glance at it every day. And every day you tell yourself, I'll get to it after the holidays. And we all know this scene. We've all been there. But Andrew, from what I understand, you want to flip that story. And I remember reading something on your website where you described tax planning as a kind of delayed gift. Would you tell me more? Where did that idea come from and why is it important?

SPEAKER_02:

So let me reframe that maybe in a different way. I think it's a proactive opportunity, would be the right way to think about that. And accounting is something that you can take a step back and look at as a whole and be like, holy smokes, there's all of this SHIT that I like have to figure out. There's a perfect way to do a process. And if I do that process perfectly, then I'm going to get to the end of the year and it's going to be really, really easy. And then like it's all good. And then you think about all those things. And then you're like, SHIT again, like, I don't have the time to do that because I'm a clinic owner. And so my goal today is to hopefully debunk some of these things and some of the like easiest steps that we can take to make uh when we get into the holiday season, taxes and accounting to feel like a gift.

SPEAKER_01:

What does it look like to actually start building those new habits?

SPEAKER_02:

I think the first thing that I want to say is like just jumping in and starting to work on something like this is just a lot and is incredibly overwhelming. And you shouldn't have the expectations that like you've listened to this podcast with Andrew and Zell, and then like all of a sudden I'm an accounting expert, and like I'm gonna do all of these things tomorrow. And if there's one small takeaway from this, go and learn about a new topic and figure out if it's something that you can apply into your life. But the best thing that you can do before you do anything else is just starting to track and starting to look at your finances on a very regular basis.

SPEAKER_01:

Are there any kind of check-ins or routines that make the process feel a little less stressful or sustainable?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, let me provide like two separate examples that might be helpful here. So the person that's just getting started and newer to their practice or their clinic, and then the person that probably has like a booming clinic earning$150,000 to$200,000. And let's talk about those two separate examples. So if you are the person that is just getting started, let's say you're earning, you started your practice in September or October. You anticipate earning, you know,$10,000 or$15,000 this year. It doesn't behoove you to set up super complex accounting systems to pay an accountant at the end of the year. Like you're not going to save time and save money by doing that. The best way to get going in that circumstance is set up a simple spreadsheet, track your income on a month-over-month basis, track your expenses as they're happening throughout the year, keep track of your receipts. The push for using accounting software is like you can attach those receipts to the transaction and it makes your life a lot easier. But that's going to be the simplest way to just get started. And then on a month-over-month basis, you're going to be able to start thinking, okay, I'm taking home this much money after my expenses are paid out. I have this concept of what's called profit. Okay, I'm going to calculate what's 25 or 30% of that. I'm going to start setting that aside for taxes. Hey, maybe I didn't pay my quarterly taxes this year, but at least I've set aside a little bit of money to be prepared for that tax liability when tax season comes around. And hey, I'm going to get a pat on the back from my accountant if I take this to an accountant, or I'm going to feel really good when I go into turbo tax or whatever tax system you use at the end of the year and just have everything in one place. It's not perfect. It's not the perfect system, but it's going to teach you a lot about the income and expenses throughout the year as you're keeping track of them. And my big push around that is if it looks like a business expense, if it smells like one, and if it feels like one, just put it in there and let somebody like me or another accountant tell you that it is or isn't something that you can take advantage of.

SPEAKER_01:

Can I just ask one question? Please, yeah. When you say tracking receipts, do you mean like stuff them all in a shoebox? Or do you mean photo them and keep that somewhere and then list how much you spent in a spreadsheet? What is the most effective way?

SPEAKER_02:

What is the most effective way? So there are receipt tracking apps, there's accounting software to where, like I said, you can attach, you know, with photos, the receipt to the individual transaction. And then there's people like my mom that like a paper checkbook and like to keep all of the receipts like literally in a shoebox. Like you said it, but I'm not kidding. And so the best thing is like the best way that you're gonna do it and keep track of it. Taking my accountant hat off, there's no such thing as like keeping track of literally like every transaction. And so, like, be very reasonable with yourself. If it's over$75, keep track of it. If it's related to meals and entertainment, if it's related to business travel, if it's related to vehicle use, those are areas that are a little bit more gray and nuanced in the eyes of the IRS or the taxation department, and probably where they're gonna look closer. Nine times out of 10, like your transaction, the amount that you pay for Jane app, it's gonna be like accessible through the internet. And so, like, if the government ever comes and says, hey, like you didn't pay taxes or we need to look at this specific thing, you'll be able to find it online. So$75, those specific areas, business travel, meals and entertainment, vehicle use for business, and then just being able to know that you can like access that information when you need it if something does come up.

SPEAKER_01:

Love it.

SPEAKER_02:

Let me talk about a bigger clinic as well. So let's say that you are running a clinic and you have five practitioners in your clinic, right? You're running a chiropractic clinic, it's growing, you have a very limited amount of time. Maybe you have an office admin as well who's taking on some of the administrative tasks, whether it's you know, billing or otherwise. You don't have time to like be spending a lot of time in the spreadsheet, nor is that like the highest value or like best place that you can put your energy in the business to continue growing the business or supporting your teammates. And so, in the case that you're in this circumstance and you're like, I'm doing nothing right now, I haven't looked at my finances, it's probably a mess. That's cool. But in that case, my recommendation would be work with a professional. And the professional is going to be able to step in and say, Hey, is your business entity or how you're taxed, is that appropriate for you? Is that the right way? Should you be a disregarded entity or should you be an S-corp? Hey, you don't have bookkeeping systems. Let me help you set some of these things up and like let's walk through together and like look at these records. And in the case where you have a higher order of income, let's say it's this practice that's 150 or 200 or 500,000, whatever it might be, you have the energy and you have the resources to invest in this. And there's probably a lot of good that's going to come from doing that and a lot that you'll learn about the business. And so building a relationship with a professional at that point makes a lot more sense to me.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I get that. Hey there, Christina here. Just a quick moment to share that this episode is brought to you by Jane. We know how much heart you put into building a practice you're proud of, and that's why we're here. To make things like scheduling, charting, and payments run a little smoother. If you'd like to take a peek, head to jane.app forward slash pricing. Because we love a good bonus, don't forget to use the code RadioFrontdesk for a one-month grace period. Okay, I'll keep it short and sweet. Back to the episode.

SPEAKER_01:

So you work with a lot of different people, different clinic sizes, as you have these examples. So is there something that you notice when people are finally getting down to their numbers and facing them? What is happening, I guess I'm saying, emotionally within people? Are you feeling like they're ready to go? Are you feeling like generally there's a resistance? What's something that is a common thread with everybody?

SPEAKER_02:

That's a great question. There's probably a couple different lenses for this one. So most clinicians, practitioners, providers, like they don't go to school to become a business owner. And so it's really freaking scary when it comes to figuring out how to be a business owner. And I think there's like a general limitation of thought in okay, I know nothing about this thing. So I don't have the fundamental like I don't know what I don't know dialed in so that I can figure out what I do need to know. And so that typically leads to folks just like stopping, right? And so there's like so much friction at the front door to even open the front door and be like, okay, well, I can like tiptoe my way inside and see that there's a table and a chair and all of these other things inside the house. But this is like a great starting point. You're listening to a conversation of us talking about like high-level fundamental concepts, and I think just putting yourself in front of these concepts and being comfortable with not knowing them, but excited about learning more is amazing. And do you need to become like a CPA or an enrolled agent? A hundred percent no. That's not going to like enable you to be a better, better business owner, but there is a threshold of learning that's going to make you feel really confident. And once you get to that fundamental understanding of like, what are the systems? What are the reports that I need to know? What's the cadence that I should look at these things? Then it becomes the same thing as you finishing a session and needing to do your notes at the end of the week. And it becomes just a part of your like habit and process. And that's when it becomes comfortable. But the best way to do it is just try.

SPEAKER_01:

Where's the inspiration inside of you come from to help people with this?

SPEAKER_02:

That's a good question. I think I've spent my entire career like trying to escape accounting, if I'm like being most honest with myself. But for me, I we started hurt and we were talking about this before the episode. You know, I've dealt with my own mental health issues since I was a little kid, and I happened to go to school to become an accountant and ended up, you know, building accounting software and helping small business owners. And I have a family full of health and wellness entrepreneurs. And to be able to like marry the two things that I like care most about and like am like pretty knowledgeable about, whether or not I want to be super knowledgeable about at this point in time, yeah, is like honestly the best thing ever. Like, I don't ever feel like I'm working and I love what I do. And so an example of this, like one client had a like tough onboarding experience to herd because he had so many different accounts and he was like so deep in debt and couldn't figure it out. And so I've been spending the last gosh, like three months, four months, like chatting with him on a bi-weekly basis and like helping him build a plan to get out of debt. It's just like it brings me so much joy to be able to help people. So I appreciate you asking that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. What happens when they see the other side?

SPEAKER_02:

There is a I think the the question that you're asking, is there hope for me? Is there hope for me, Andrew? If you haven't started yet, yes, there is hope. People have seen the light, they've been to the other side. No, I think just like there's a sense of like real empowerment as a like an entrepreneur, like it's a transformation from being like a clinic owner or a private practitioner, like a therapist, like largely the community that I come from, and into this concept of like being an entrepreneur. And like when you build those financial systems, you just like make fundamentally better decisions in your practice, and your life also gets better because then you know, hey, I can take time off at this point in the year because I've budgeted well enough, or I can go on this vacation and be confident, you know, taking a week away from sessions and that feels really good. Or, you know, I've finally invested, I've paid down debt and I've finally started investing in my own retirement or like got healthcare that makes sense for me. You are all Canadian and don't have to deal with the perils of healthcare in the same way. But there's all these like small fundamental things that impact your business positively, but also just start to show up in your real life as well.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that's really tangible, especially to this group of people listening to this, where you know you can reach a place where you can take a vacation and feel good about it. It sounds so simple, but I know that a lot of small business owners are are striving for that position in life. Yeah. Let's talk about the systems that you mentioned. Uh bookkeeping makes my eyes glaze over. I imagine everyone listening maybe the same. Can you walk us through what good bookkeeping is for a small practice?

SPEAKER_02:

What is good bookkeeping for a small practice? Um, setting up the system so you don't have to like think about bookkeeping and then your eyes can glaze over again. Okay. A couple quick things. So you have separate business and personal bank accounts. And so if you're a sole proprietor, that could even mean tomorrow going to your personal checking account and setting up a separate checking account within that, and that is your business account. Income goes in there, expenses go out of there.

SPEAKER_01:

I love this because I didn't learn this until quite late in life that like it's okay to have multiple accounts for multiple different purposes.

SPEAKER_02:

A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_01:

I didn't, no one ever told me that. So it just like once you realize that you're like, whoa, this is so much easier.

SPEAKER_02:

And this the commingling just like makes things so messy and so hard. Yeah. Not just for like you won't have just like an upset accountant, but you're also gonna be upset yourself when you have to like try to figure out how to sort through all this at the end of the year. The second recommendation would be a separate savings account. And so this is where your tax money goes. We can talk about like profit first, there's like complex methodologies, but like the easiest way to do it is like set up a separate checking account, set up a separate savings account, move money into that savings account on a month-over-month basis. That'll start to set you up for success when it comes to quarterly taxes or annual tax filings. And so you have your separate account set up. Of course, if you like have a formal business entity, like please get a business bank account, same setup, business checking.

SPEAKER_01:

Would you put that in the same bank or does it matter?

SPEAKER_02:

It's funny because I just like with that customer that I was talking about, we just like went through this process and he was like, I really want to like go to a local credit union and like support this like local business. And I'm like, Great, go to the local credit union, support the business. And so, like, wherever you feel good about is like wherever you should bank. I don't have strong perspectives on like density of income in one place. I would say like FDIC insur, like insurance is like a very real thing. And so, like, for sure, like get a bank that has that. Most banks that are real should. And also, like, in the case that there's ever an economic crisis, like the big banks are probably gonna be bailed out. Um, and so set up your separate bank account. Once you do that, that's time for the spreadsheet that we've talked about, or the accounting software. And if you have the separate accounts, just set up accounting software, like by far my recommendation. That's gonna enable you to get into the habits of okay, my financial accounts are connected to software, all that information is flowing into one place. I'm able to categorize different types of income or different types of expenses. I'm able to then start to like visualize some of these financial statements and reports that we're talking about in one place, and that can be good bookkeeping. Separating the accounts and then like bringing in into a spreadsheet or bringing it into accounting software or working with a bookkeeper if you want to do that. Um check it once a week. Oh, once a week. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_02:

Whatever you think.

SPEAKER_01:

Is this because they're business owners, or do you think everyone should check everything once a week?

SPEAKER_02:

I think it's just like fundamentally like whatever you will do that. Like if you're if you like one of my friends, Trent, he's also a clinical psychologist. He's like one of my best friends, and he like wants to do it all himself, and so like he uses her just because he like loves me. But like he also still has like a spreadsheet where he does calculations and like he has accounting software separately set up, and I'm like, this is awesome, this is great. And he makes a lot of money and he does really well, but he like wants to do that, and he spends like every single day in there looking at that because him and his partner are like planning for how they can retire by 50. And so, like, if that's your vibe for sure. But if you're like, I just want to like make sure that I'm ready for taxes, pay my quarterly taxes, and like not get arrested by the IRS, which is like something that like people say to us, that's not gonna happen. But do it on a weekly, do it on a monthly basis, whatever's easiest for you, and like whatever will allow you to like show up and like not give up on it.

SPEAKER_01:

So talk to me about bookkeepers. How do you find a good one? What are you looking for?

SPEAKER_02:

I would say, like, in the same way that you find uh a good like clinic, like clinician to work with or practitioner to work with, of like you gel with that person, you connect with them. The like requisite of prerequisite, of course, would be like they have a reason to be a bookkeeper and they like have been trained as an accountant and a bookkeeper, but I think figure out the person that you like gel with. And I don't know, a signal that I would look for is more qualitative, like what is their like orientation of curiosity, and then what is their structure around how they want to like connect with you and interact with you? Because if they're like, we're never gonna talk, and I'm just gonna do this and like send you these reports, like that's probably not gonna be super helpful for you. But if they're like, tell me like all about your practice, why you got into your practice or why you opened your clinic, what's important for you, what's your goals, you know, what are the things that you're freaking out about right now? What are like budgeting challenges that you're facing? Like, those are like probably green flags that they're gonna be a good person to work with.

SPEAKER_01:

I love that. I also will add in just anecdotally, take it or leave it with a grain of salt or like 10 grains of salt. But when I'm personally looking for an accountant, I it's hard. I'm I do word and story. So it's not my cup of tea. And I have to go off of when they explain things to me, do I understand better or do I come out of the conversation more confused? It's really like one of the biggest like checkpoints for me. Is do they explain things in a way that I feel more confident and more knowledgeable, or do I feel like, oh my gosh, I have no idea what they just said? Yeah, I feel like they'd be the same thing.

SPEAKER_02:

If a lot of accountants, like I think struggle with the like interpersonal side of communication, then I think that's the important reason that you should figure that out.

SPEAKER_01:

Let's talk about deductions or write-offs or whatever you're gonna call them. What are some common ones that get missed throughout the year?

SPEAKER_02:

So, first thing, like we think business expense, tax write-off, deduction, these are all kind of like synonymous and all kind of the same thing. They're expenses, things that you're paying for in your practice that like at the end of the year will reduce your overall tax liability. Some may be deductible, some may not be deductible, some may only be partially deductible. What are some of like the best ones I would say? I would say there's like a startup deduction. So if you're in your first year and you didn't get paid until 2025, but in 2024 you had, you know, X amount of business expenses, there's a certain portion of business expenses that you can roll into the new year and associate with your practice in the given year that it's like actually incepted or started and you've received payment. The home office deduction is another great one that people don't often take advantage of. And there's a couple different methodologies to that, and I could go deeper into that. But a lot of folks coming coming out of kind of like the pandemic and COVID and when all that took place started operating in some capacity at their home. And so figuring out what percentage of use of your home is for your home office and how frequently you are operating out of that space, like that's a great one to take advantage of. And then if you have a physical space as well, like of course, take advantage of that. And then I talked about a couple of other areas, meals and entertainment. So, like, let's say you and I went out and like we were both clinic owners and we wanted to talk about what we were gonna say on the podcast, and we got you know dinner together, or we went and got like a coffee. A percentage of that is deductible. Or let's say you met one of your like business partners to do planning for 2026. Take advantage of all of those times that you're um, you know, meeting or working with someone, you know, separately and sharing a meal, or if like you're a clinic owner and you're supporting your team or celebrating your team, like take advantage of that. And then there's a lot of travel associated with being a clinician in a lot of capacities because clinicians are entrepreneurs, and so keep track of all of those travel expenses as well.

SPEAKER_01:

If you're traveling to like a professional conference and you're gonna do like CE credits, that's something that would count, right?

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Memberships, continuing education, any sort of software you're paying for advertising and marketing. So if like you and I went and got headshots right now to like update our photos on our websites because we wanted to like look great, uh, that would be something that's taxed.

SPEAKER_01:

I was gonna ask you about marketing, and then I didn't because I was in my head doing my own, you know, armchair accounting. And I was gonna say, is there anything about marketing that could be deducted? For instance, we often talk about uh the power of community for many clinics in terms of what works in marketing. And there's like this element of getting out into the community. Sometimes there's an event that you're hosting or you're going to coffee with people or whatever. Sounds like those things might qualify.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes. And this is like this goes back to like the if it looks like a business expense, smells like one, and feels like one, write it down. And so, like anytime you're doing any sort of like advertising, like let's say you're buying ads on Google, or you're like, I don't know, getting like a sign on the road to like promote your practice, or getting new signage outside of your practice, or setting up a new website and paying for a web developer or paying for software associated with that. Like everything associated with the ordinary operations of your practice is a hundred percent deductible. And so, like, think about all of those things. And maybe a good exercise here is like just carry like a little like notebook with you, or I guess you can like be in the 21st century and like use your phone. Like, yeah, we have a notebook in our pocket, but like start over the course of the week, like start recording down all of the things that could potentially like look or feel like a business expense, and that's like a great starting point to start thinking about what deductions are.

SPEAKER_01:

Love it. Okay, so as we wrap up here, for the folks who have that sticky note on their desk to your taxes, what can you say to inspire them to take action?

SPEAKER_02:

I would say you're not alone. There's many other providers or practitioners that are going through the same exact experience as you. And there's also people on the other side who have found the light, as we were talking about earlier. And so it is possible, but don't make it hard for yourself. Just take one small step. And so, like, even if one small step is like going to the bank tomorrow and setting up a separate checking account, and you know, that next step being starting to transition some of those expenses or connecting your Jane account back to that bank account to make sure that those deposits are coming into that bank account. Build the incremental steps towards that like outcome that you want to get to. Don't make it like a single day or like week-long teardown of like trying to accomplish all of these goals at once. It's just gonna lead to like burnout and lead to the sticky notes still sitting on your desk next year when you get to tax season.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, that's it for today's episode of Radio Front Desk. If it helped you at all, take a breath or take a first step. My hope is that you keep that momentum going. And if you're looking for some inspiration, you can always find Andrew's end of the year playbook linked in our show notes. It's packed with tips to help clinic owners get their finances in order and feel prepared for the new year. Thanks for tuning in, and we'll see you next time.