Trauma Talks : With Russ Tellup
Hi, I’m Russ Tellup, a Trauma-Informed Somatic Coach and Level 1 Brainspotting practitioner. In my podcast "Trauma Talks," I dive into the neuroscience of trauma, exploring somatic healing practices, Polyvagal Theory, and IFS (Internal Family Systems) parts work. I also occasionally address the complexities of narcissistic abuse, offering insights and tools for healing. Join me each week as we navigate the journey of recovery, resilience, and self-discovery together.
Trauma Talks : With Russ Tellup
Healing Deep Wounds: Exploring Trauma Recovery with Nat Jovanovic
What if the answers to healing deep emotional wounds lie within ourselves? Join us as Nat Jovanovic, a trauma therapist and owner of Bright Horizons Therapies, shares their poignant journey from surviving childhood abuse to becoming a beacon of hope for others seeking the same healing. Nat bravely discusses the challenges she faced, from cultural stigmas around therapy to navigating complex family dynamics, and how these experiences propelled them into a career dedicated to trauma recovery. Discover how parts work therapy, combined with somatic approaches and systemic constellations, has empowered Nat to develop assertiveness and set healthy boundaries, ultimately changing their life and the lives of their clients.
In this enlightening conversation, we unlock the synergy between EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing) and a trauma-informed model, with Nat guiding us through the intricacies of integrating memory processing and parts work. They highlight the significance of preparation in EMDR therapy, ensuring clients maintain dual awareness and stay within their window of tolerance. This episode offers a fascinating look at systemic constellations, a therapeutic approach that externalizes elements of our inner world, aiding in the exploration and healing of traumatic memories.
Together, we navigate the landscape of trauma therapy, discussing the value of understanding and integrating different parts of the self, as well as the essential principles of polyvagal theory in trauma recovery. Nat provides insightful commentary on the complexities of PTSD and complex PTSD, advocating for the validation of all trauma experiences. With a focus on individualized healing journeys, Nat emphasizes the need for tailor-made support, sharing resources and contacts for those in pursuit of recovery. Tune in to learn about the transformative power of trauma therapy and how to embark on your own path to healing.
Hello, welcome to Trauma Talks. My name is Russ Tellup. I am your host. Today we are talking to Nat Jovanovic. Nat is a trauma therapist and the owner of BrightHorizonsTherapiescom. Let me correct that it's BrightHorizonTherapiescom. She is also the host of Trauma Demystified, a podcast all about trauma. She works in EMDR parts work, polyvagal systemic constellation man, you name it, and she's into it. So let's get right into it and we'll see you guys after. Thanks, welcome to Trauma Talks. My name is Russ. I'm the host. Today we have Nat Jovanovic. Is it my spelling? Am I pronouncing that correctly? It's Jovanovic, but it's okay Jovanovic. Is it my spelling? Am I pronouncing that correctly? It's Jovanovic, but it's okay, jovanovic. Okay, cool, she is the owner of Bright Horizons Therapies and she is a trauma therapist. Nat, why don't you tell us your story, kind of how you got into the space and take it away?
Speaker 2:Sure, I became a trauma therapist mainly due to my own recovery journey from childhood abuse. I have experienced all forms of childhood abuse so I started a very intense healing journey when I was in my mid thirties and so at this stage of my life I was living in Spain, so I'm originally German creation and I now live in Canada. So I really went into like how can I heal from it and how can I become healthy? I think my main motivation was how can I create healthy relationships? And like I had symptoms like self-injury. It was really like when the conflict got too intense I would dissociate so many elements where I was fairly functional and there were elements where I really had all the symptoms of trauma, like a dysregulated nervous system, like my nervous system tended to go far more in hypoarousal and it's still my preferred state.
Speaker 2:So on my healing journey I really learned the different tools and I was lucky enough at one stage to really find trauma-focused professionals which and this was in Spain like I was always skeptical about therapy, mainly because in my family it was really stigmatized, like you're crazy if you go to therapy, and also, on the other hand, there were parts of me that really didn't believe that healing was possible and I had no framework how my healing looked like. So because I was so used to different forms of abuse so it was hard to imagine how does a healthy work look like? And so this kind of influenced me and it took a while for me until I had the courage to start my healing and I had a couple of therapists who were really pathologizing and it didn't work for me and at one stage I found those who were really helpful, who were aware how to navigate their power and also not pathologizing my symptoms but really also seeing my strength and helping me to find healthier, adjusted skills to go through conflict.
Speaker 1:Sure, now, when you say there was some stigma around therapy, was that you said you were German descent.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Was that a cultural thing, or is that more just within your family?
Speaker 2:I don't know. I think to some degree. I think it's still cultural. I would say even here in canada there are certain cultural aspects. In my own experience at this stage, this was more my family, so like there was a lot of stigma around it and my parents. They both lived through the second world war so they had their own trauma that they didn't look at. So there was like things going on that at this stage I didn't fully understand.
Speaker 1:But my primarily influence was my family and I assume, their own fear to look at what has happened to them right, and you grew up in spain, or you grew up in Spain, or you grew up in Germany and then moved to Spain later.
Speaker 2:I grew up in Germany. My father has Croatian roots.
Speaker 2:My mother was fully German, my family dynamics were really complicated, like my parents separated, but they were really united in hatred. My mother was discriminative against my father and so he was violent with her, so my father had really violent behavior. My mother was more on submissive, not doing anything, and she later remarried and this my stepfather was physically violent, mainly with my sibling, but for me it was a constant threat of physical violence and so I had. My coping skill was to freeze. My sibling's coping skill was to go into a fight response, I think. Like to some degree I think it was helpful for me to freeze because there was less trouble, but later on in life it got really complicated because learning to stand up and be assertive was a journey sure.
Speaker 1:So when you were going through your, your different healing modalities, as you were kind of tackling these things, what did you find helped you most?
Speaker 2:I did a lot of the combination of parts work therapy, like with a somatic approach. Like when I speak from parts work therapy, it always needs to integrate the body. So I worked with a mortality which is called systemic constellation in Spain. So I worked with a mortality which is called systemic constellation in Spain. I now can see elements of IFS. You know, now that I learned about IFS, I can see that there are similarities and differences. So constellation work goes really deep down into your body and it's like you can work with these dynamics and really process the emotions.
Speaker 2:Then I did a lot of things around coaching. I found coaching helpful because it was less pathologizing than traditional talk therapy. Yeah, so things like assertiveness, my values, setting healthy boundaries I really got it from a more coaching style, though I also need to say coaching for me was a lot of around doing parts work, though I also need to say coaching for me was a lot of around doing parts work, and so I think for me mainly it was parts work, working with my emotions, but also skill building. How can I be assertive, how can I be in my body when somebody is in conflict with me?
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:How long ago did you start your healing journey?
Speaker 1:If I look back now, let me check, I think probably about 18 years ago. Okay, and how long have you been coaching and a therapist yourself?
Speaker 2:11 years ago, like I now do this type of work since 11 years. Okay.
Speaker 1:So that's a great segue, because it sounds like you do quite a bit of stuff. Emdr, parts work, polyvagal. Can you speak to some of the different modalities that you've learned over the course of the last 10 years or so and what you value from each?
Speaker 2:Yes, okay, here's the thing. I think we need to be mindful that working with trauma is a bit different than generic talk therapy. So the first phase of trauma treatment is stabilization and inner safety, and so, depending on the modalities, so I find, in this stage, parts work therapy and polyvagal approach really useful, because people need to learn on, recognize the states of the nervous system and find tools on how they can go back into their window of tolerance. And I find that parts work and putting out the different parts can really help us to connect with our inner self. And so when we go through trauma, what can happen is that we feel more fragmented in different parts. So I was really fragmented and so for me, the concept of parts made a lot of sense.
Speaker 2:And so being able to talk to parts is now what I do with clients in the stabilization and safety phase and it's really to some degree it may also look at the relationships in their lives.
Speaker 2:What is the level of health in their relationships Like, for example, we don't do intense trauma work in general, if somebody is right now in an unsafe situation because bringing all that up wouldn't be safe for them, so first step is really, I would say, working with the nervous system, working with the connection with one's body, but also start to connect with one's inner parts and understand oneself better and understand when maybe one goes into a trauma response, but also understand what might be coping skills to work with that.
Speaker 2:And then I use EMDR on a trauma-informed model. So it really aligns a lot with parts work because you need to have a preparation phase. But I mainly use the iMovement part of EMDR to integrate traumatic experiences and in this stage the individual needs to have a certain degree of awareness of the state of the nervous system and the capacity to go back into their window of tolerance if they dysregulate. So, for example, if somebody has experienced an accident, it might be far quicker to work with EMDR if they have already the capacity to be in their window of tolerance. If somebody has a lot of symptoms of dissociations, we first need to work with the parts that dissociate and understand them better before we can move forward into memory integration with EMDR. I also use EMDR and parts for combined so we can work with a part that has intense emotions.
Speaker 1:We don't need to go to the past okay, so you will access the part and then do emdr with the part.
Speaker 2:Yes, oh, okay, that's very interesting yes, so it may not fully resolve all the impact of the memory, but it may, in the moment, give a lot of relief for the part, so that the part can release anger, that the part can release sadness. However, we can only do it if the client is in dual awareness, so they need to be connected in their body and in the present moment to be able to get the part and work with it.
Speaker 1:So for those because I'm sure there's going to be a lot of people listening that aren't familiar with parts work or EMDR, could you just, at a high level, explain what EMDR is, how that works and then how it relates to the parts work? Piece.
Speaker 2:Yes, okay, emdr is known for the bilateral eye movements to integrate traumatic memory. So in the end, we would work with the memory directly. I think what is not very often talked about. Even EMDR has a preparation phase, and so this is a bit like where I think parts work and EMDR connects. And so in an EMDR session I would ask a client, like we would have a list of the worst things that happened to them and we would then start working with the memories.
Speaker 2:We would install them, like we would install the memory and the negative, the beliefs they have learned about themselves. We look, would look for a positive belief, and then we would really allow the person the space to integrate the memory, go through their body sensations while we do the different EMDR sets. So an EMDR set is that the client focus on the memory and what comes up for them and I move my fingers and they follow my fingers with their eyes, and so there is no right or wrong way to do it, and I think sometimes clients get a bit scared because whatever shows up is right. What needs to show up for them in the moment, however, it's really very individual, and then, like we would work with that until the emotional intensity is zero, and then we would install the positive belief, and then we would just do a final body scan to see whether everything is integrated and so you're doing a little bit of uh neuro linguistic programming in there as well like the standard emDR process.
Speaker 2:Yes, like in EMDR you always have in a final phase where you install the positive belief on the memory that has happened to the individual. Like, for example, if I've learned I'm unlovable, like the belief needs to resonate with the client, but like I could install a belief like I'm lovable, I'm worthy, I'm okay as I am, and like personally and maybe that's easy like I used a lot of EMDR to work on experiences of systemic violence, and so the belief that came up for me was just like I'm OK as I am, and that gave me a lot of freedom to just do my own like live my own life.
Speaker 1:Now you mentioned systemic consolation. Can you, can you explain a little bit what that means?
Speaker 2:Yes, systemic consol constellation is something that was introduced by a German person who's called Bert Hellinger. It is a little bit of a combination between parts work. It's based on some pseudo practices. So you can do systemic constellation and individual counseling with just the person. So it's a bit like externalize the different parts and go into the position of the different parts and feel how it feels in your body. And you can do systemic constellation in a huge group setting where you use representative to represent different aspects of your family, different aspects of your inner world, and so a lot of what comes up in systemic constellation is related to in a child's work.
Speaker 1:So when I did my systemic constellation we also did a lot of inner child work okay, okay, and it sounds like all of this kind of ties into polyvagal theory as well yes, like it is all about how to create safety and connection.
Speaker 2:a lot of I think of about recovery, which is part of parts work, which is part of emdr, is also using our imagination to really create more safety, um, to really create also positive pictures, because if you have experienced trauma, our mind tends to go to worst case scenarios and and worst case pictures and so we can retrain us on. How can we maybe give us a break and, for a couple of seconds, look at a positive picture? Does this make sense?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it does, so I'm just going to try to recap. So, when it comes to parts work, essentially what we're talking about is when someone experiences a trauma whether that be a childhood trauma or an accident, like you say there's a fragment right, the true self becomes fragmented, and then we have an exile wound that is over here that you're trying to protect your true self from, and that's where these parts come in as firefighters and protector parts.
Speaker 2:Yes, true self from, and that's where these parts come in as firefighters and protector parts. Yes, like I think, when trauma happens, what usually what happens is that we may disconnect from our core self and then the parts take over. So in general, we have protective parts and we have wounded parts, and what often happens is that we put the wounded parts, or the exiles and ifs, behind a wall and so they stay there and we have these very rational parts that just want to move forward with life and just cope with life and they want to avoid the trauma. Right, and so part of healing really is on. How can we create a relationship with all of the different parts? Because we can. We cannot be our true self if parts are excised and then over time it's also like how can we re-establish the connection with the core self so that the self can have a relationship with the parts?
Speaker 1:yeah, and then, and another big big part of it is that, no matter what those parts are doing, there is no such thing as a bad part, right they're, they're all parts of us, they're all trying to do a job and they're doing the best they can with what they have right.
Speaker 2:Yes, like I sometimes tell clients because they may have parts that go into a fight response, so they may have behavior that is socially not accepted, and so I say clients, like, can you please like remove the intention of the part from their behavior? Because the intention of the part is to protect the clients from something that is a boundary violation, from something that is a really huge conflict. And so this really helps us to have a more gentle or compassionate view on the part and really understanding what was the intention of the part and having a conversation with the part like what can we do differently or how can I protect you better? Like, if I have an angry question is okay. What do you want to tell me, what boundaries violated for you and how can I take care of this boundary?
Speaker 1:Yeah, kind of almost relieving them of of the duty that they've been holding down for so long, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then when you work EMDR in in there, essentially you've got bilateral eye movement, so you're moving eyes back and forth, accessing traumatic memories, and then time stamping those memories right so that, so that the mind can realize that they're in the past and no longer a threat yes, okay, and it's time stamping, but I but I think it helps us to release the emotions that are stuck in our body.
Speaker 2:So if trauma happens, some emotions are unprocessed and stuck in our body and so with EMDR a person can really process the emotions that they weren't able to express in the moment timeline. So they may see for example, some clients have experienced sexual abuse when they were young but they also see how has it impacted throughout their lifetime and they can make more sense out of their story. So it's not necessarily only working with the one specific memory, it's more like the memory and the impact it had on them, on their lifetime.
Speaker 1:I was doing lifetime I was doing I gotta be careful of how I described this Cause it was with a client. I won't obviously say their name, but I was working with a client who had a protector part that was addicted to sugar. It was this part that was just just needed constant sugar. So when we were talking to this person, um, she identified this part as a dark figure. Um, a figure that was kind of maleficent, kind of kind of uh, negative, negative and kind of frightening and scary.
Speaker 1:Um, and essentially all we did was she identified the part, she thanked the part for all the work that they had been doing and then asked the part if they knew how old she was, and, and the part said yes, and then asked if they would mind if they took over, and, and when they did that, the part step, step back and then her child, her inner child, was there and she got to interact with her little, with her little little self and her inner child, and it was one of the most impactful, most powerful coaching sessions I've ever witnessed. It was amazing, absolutely amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like it is amazing and it like I find parts were very effective and also I think it is a very respectful way to work with our past, but also very respectful because in the end, the client has the power. Like for me, if there is a part that is protective, it's really how can we talk to it and find a way that it steps down but really respect their concerns, respect what comes up and respect their pacing.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah, it's one of those majorly transformational modalities that if if you guys have ever considered working in parts work, it is. It is something else. Now you've got quite a bit of experience in polyvagal theory and somatic coaching as well. Could you talk about that a little bit?
Speaker 2:Yes, okay, I use it a lot to explain people on how trauma affects our autonomic nervous system. So in polyvagal theory it's like a letter. So are either in the state of safety and connection, or we are in the state of mobilization, which is fight and flight, or we are in the state of immobilization, where we are in freeze, or we are in the state of immobilization where we are in freeze, fawn or fault, and so the thing what we need to understand is if there is a queue of danger, we first go into fight and flight, and if we can't sustain it, we go into immobilization. And every person is different, so we may have very different responses. What's important to understand we need to if you go the letter down, we also need to go it up.
Speaker 2:So I often tell my clients if you are in immobilization, you need a little bit of fight and flight to get out of it, because otherwise it's hard to get out of it. And so sometimes I'm really also noticing that those extreme fight parts that are often very much judged they help the client to get out of immobilization, and so I use this model to create awareness within the client about their state, so I really guide them through an experience where they can notice oh, this is how it feels in me, oh, this is how this one feels in me. And then safety and connection oh, they now know how it feels in their bodies, and this helps us to just recognize the different parts, like I still, I see the different states then again as parts so that we can work with them. But first a person needs to recognize in the body what state they're in, otherwise we can't work with it, and so it is usually when I work with polyvagal informed therapy, it's more like creating awareness about the state but then also finding practices. And how can they get back to safety and connection, and I'm aware that people have experienced complex trauma.
Speaker 2:Safety and connection may be a state that is hardly ever accessible. So really, how can we increase the experiences of safety and connection?
Speaker 1:Yeah, one of the things I do with clients when we're doing kind of our discovery and when we're getting to know each other and getting to know ourselves frankly right is I'll have them do a nervous system mapping, so they'll sit down and they'll start writing out what triggers will trigger them into a fight or flight, what triggers will trigger them even further down into a freeze mode or freeze state, and then, with some positive psychology education, we kind of go through all that stuff and we get really get to know our nervous system a lot better.
Speaker 1:And when you know how those states feel you, it makes it makes things make sense a lot more and and you're able to be a lot more compassionate with yourself. I think too. And you know, when you're stuck in that free state you can't get off the couch and every time you want to go work out, you freak out because the last thing you want to do is get that sympathetic energy up because it just doesn't feel safe. But one of the parts of that mapping is they'll identify, based on a percentage, how much of their life they're spending in each of those states. And the first time that I did it I was blown away because I was like 60% of the time in freeze, like 30% of the time in fight flight and like 10% of the time in a safe, connected space, and it's amazing how much time we don't spend safe, connected and present.
Speaker 2:No, I agree. Like I was very much in immobilized state for a long, long time and safety and connection was hardly ever accessible, and so it is a journey to get there. Like I really want us invite people to have patience with it. I think, if you understand what state we are in, it's less crazy making because I think immobilization can feel. So crazy making because nothing seems to happen. But like now I just normalized to myself okay, just a state, and honestly the last thing I want to do is to move. But I also know the most effective thing for myself to get out of it is dancing.
Speaker 1:So it's really yeah pushing me out. Answer.
Speaker 2:I'm not a dancer. I'm very awkward just using and saying just enjoy dancing yes, like, I'm like, I enjoy it. I'm not, I'm really awkward, like, but on the other hand, I know it's. It's really so good to get me out of immobilization yeah, and I really like, and then it's when I push me gently, okay, you know what's best for you. You know you don't want to do it but just like motivate yourself to do a bit of it.
Speaker 1:Well being polyvagal informed. I'm sure that you're aware of how humming or vibrations in the throat can really pull you into that connected space. I'm the lead singer of a band, so that's one of the benefits for me is, every time I'm rehearsing and practicing I'm tonal, I'm vaguing, I am toning my vagal nerve right Every time I'm doing that. So music is a huge, huge outlet for me and definitely keeps me connected and present. So do you have any go-to polyvagal kind of exercises that you do with your clients to help them move through these different states?
Speaker 2:I have certain exercises where we really create a list of what are activities that bring you back to safety and connection, what are people who bring you back to safety and connection, what are places that bring you back then, what are memories? So I sometimes use emdr to install those, those memories that bring people back to safety and connection, so that they can really fully connect with them. Like I use a lot around, like also memories that brought you resilience, that can help you to go back to safety and connection, and so you can use the eye movement also to increase the intensity of these positive memories. So I often use this in Polyvega theory.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, when you're working with a client from, let's say, start to finish, and obviously it's different for everybody. But how long is your typical time that you're spending with a client from, let's say, start to finish, and obviously it's different for everybody, but how long is your typical time that you're spending with a client, like hour-long sessions?
Speaker 2:Oh yes, like, my sessions are normally like 60 minutes long, 55 to 60 minutes. It may depend on what we do, also what's going on for the client. So I have some clients who have experienced complex trauma where we may spend maybe 20 minutes for more intense work but then also a little bit of time for more gentle work with them, like like really finding the right balance, like how much of the time can we use for more intense work and how much do we maybe use also to organize daily living? And for some clients it's easy to have 60 minutes and do the intense work. So I like it's, there's no right or wrong way to do it.
Speaker 1:It's really about how to be adjusted to the needs of the client yeah, um, do you typically work with clients for long periods of time, multiple sessions, obviously, but I mean, do you find yours, find that you're working with clients for like years and years and years, or is this something where they're seeing benefits pretty quickly?
Speaker 2:okay, here's the thing. Um, it really depends on what has happened to the client, since trauma comes in a lot of intensity, like I sometimes work with clients who have, who have the idea I work with clients who have really profound, severe um trauma lists. So with these clients it may be a year long process, like it may be longer, like two years, three years or even longer.
Speaker 2:It may also end like, if a client in the present is in a situation where they are not fully safe, it's really difficult to start doing the trauma work. They just do the work on how can we get you in a safer situation. I have, for example, a client who had experienced a very toxic workplace and trauma due to a very toxic workplace. We had a process that was about five months, so we did stabilization and then we did the EMDR and then it was resolved and they later on told me also they met the person who had perpetuated the abuse towards them and and they didn't have any emotional response at all and it was really easy for them to be around them and they never imagined that it would ever be possible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow, yeah, and that's something else to point out is trauma. I mean a lot of people when they think of trauma or childhood trauma, they're thinking of trauma from their parents, but that could be trauma from school, trauma from religion, trauma from other family members, trauma from people who aren't part of your family, and then obviously there's trauma as adults too, right? Traumatic toxic relationships, work environments, all kinds of different things that and you mentioned complex trauma a couple of times some like complex PTSD. Could you talk about what complex PTSD versus just PTSD is?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I give a high level overview and I'm also like, for me, complex trauma like the diagnosis of PTSD is a little bit different than complex trauma, like just because diagnosing mean you fit in the diagnostic criteria. For me, complex trauma has usually an additional complexity because it is related to relational trauma because or developmental trauma, so to somebody you trusted in and betrayed you very deeply. So it can be domestic violence, it can be childhood abuse, it can be toxic workplaces, and so it is usually there is a part of us that really lost trust in our relationships, that may also lost a more global trust on, you know, in humanity in a way. And so I think for me there is just the aspect we need to work with attachment and we need to also be really mindful and respect those parts where the boundaries have been so extremely violated. And so, yeah, like for me, complex trauma always means we have a different level of severity just because we have the impact of society on us.
Speaker 2:Like complex trauma can happen also when people live through war, because they're just so in a yes on how we are affected by it yeah, and, and something else to note is trauma.
Speaker 1:You know you hear a lot about big t, little t and in my opinion there is no big t, little t. Trauma is trauma is trauma. You know it's.
Speaker 2:Whether your trauma is from a car accident or going to war, it's still trauma yes, and we need to be mindful like we have trauma due to events and we have trauma due to enduring conditions, and I think enduring conditions erode us more over time, like emotional abuse may not be as identifiable as sexual abuse, where it just erodes our sense of safety and our trust in humanity over time and we are living in a traumatic environment. So and this is a bit like complex trauma is usually if you are part of a traumatic environment or violent environment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I grew up in a pretty violent home. My father was pretty violent and other family members that were pretty violent and abusive abusive. So I can definitely relate to the complexity of of emotional and and physical and sexual and I mean just about every type of abuse you can think of, and it just piles on and piles on, and piles on and adds a lot of different layers yeah, like the one thing I want to say.
Speaker 2:Like trauma means that it overwhelms our capacity to integrate the emotional experience, and so it can happen. And this is a big t and small t.
Speaker 1:So trauma is really what has happened to you and how has it affected you, and it doesn't matter what the event it is really about, like how you experienced it yeah, the somatic experience, right, and your inability to to cope with the somatic experience, and it kind of leaves that imprint on us, on your body and on your nervous system. Yeah, yeah, uh, nat. If they wanted to work with you, how would they reach you to to work with you? Do you have a website?
Speaker 2:sure. I have a website which is bright horizon therapiescom so they can reach me through my website. They can also email me at not at Bright Horizon Therapies dot com If they're interested in. I have a podcast which is called Trauma Demystified, where I share more of my insights about trauma. I give some psychoeducation. I also give some tools that I hope help people to do their recovery.
Speaker 1:Awesome, and I'll include those in the show notes so people can check that out. And you said it's trauma, trauma, demystified. Yes, awesome. Would you mind, after the show, sending me an email with some links to that so I can include them in the show notes, so people can reach you and check out that podcast? Sure, cool. Is there anything else you'd like to share with the audience? Anything else that pops out in your head?
Speaker 2:Well, it pops out in my head. I know that it's sometimes really difficult to believe that healing is possible when people have experienced trauma. The one thing I say it is a journey, but I also believe it's possible. So I would really invite people to look at themselves and find some support that can help them to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would agree. And, and you know, if you go to one person and it just you just don't feel it, don't give up, try someone else. You know, I am living proof that that it can change your life and it is possible. If you met me two years ago, you'd be like what in the world is wrong with this guy? So it's, it's definitely possible. It's critical the world we live in. There's trauma around every corner and we're just about all dealing with trauma at some point at some level. So yeah, I would. I would definitely agree.
Speaker 2:Get there and and do what you can to to heal I agree, like I believe for myself, my recovery was worth it oh, 100.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my, my quality of life today, compared to two years ago, is night and day. Yeah well, thank you for coming on, nat. I really appreciate it. Uh, not nat jovenich Jovanich or Jovanich Jovanich Jovanich, okay. So it's very nice to meet you. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your expertise. If you want to check out Nat, you can go to brighthorizontherapiescom or check out her podcast, trauma Demystified, and we'll put links to both of those in the show notes. And then her email address is just natnat A T at bright horizon therapiescom and I'm sure she's got some plenty of information on her website that you guys can go check out and get some more information on her and the different things that she's doing in the trauma space. So thanks again for coming on. That I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me, Russ. I appreciated our conversation.
Speaker 1:My pleasure. We'll talk soon. Thank you, guys Once again, if you're interested in working with Nat, you can check her out at brighthorizontherapiescom or on her podcast, trauma demystified, or you can email her at Nat at brighthorizontherapiescom. And Nat, that's bright horizon with no S, correct?
Speaker 2:therapiescom and Nat. That's bright horizon with no S, correct? Let me check that Bright horizon therapies gets without an S.
Speaker 1:Okay, so bright horizon therapiescom. Nat at bright horizon therapiescom. Thanks again, nat really appreciate it. Guys, thanks so much for joining us and we'll see you next week. Thank you Enjoyed that as much as I did. Nat is is brilliant when it comes to trauma and how it affects us on a daily basis, and if you guys are interested in working with Nat, you can check her out at brighthorizontherapiescom. If you guys are interested in working with me, you can reach out to me on brainspottingcscom or you can just go to Facebook, send me a message there and I'll reach back out to you. We offer everything from one-on-one coaching to workshops, parenting classes, all kinds of stuff, so we'd love to chat with you about what your needs are. Anyway, thanks for joining us this week. Next week we will see you.