Trauma Talks : With Russ Tellup
Hi, I’m Russ Tellup, a Trauma-Informed Somatic Coach and Level 1 Brainspotting practitioner. In my podcast "Trauma Talks," I dive into the neuroscience of trauma, exploring somatic healing practices, Polyvagal Theory, and IFS (Internal Family Systems) parts work. I also occasionally address the complexities of narcissistic abuse, offering insights and tools for healing. Join me each week as we navigate the journey of recovery, resilience, and self-discovery together.
Trauma Talks : With Russ Tellup
Juggling Your Way Out of Trauma
When grief and trauma threaten to pull you under, what if the most effective medicine wasn't sitting still, but moving with purpose? Kevin Howely discovered this truth firsthand after losing his sister, father, and mother in rapid succession between 2017 and 2020. Drawing on his unique background as both a professional clown and neuromuscular massage therapist, Kevin developed "Toss Catch Heal" – a therapeutic juggling method that transforms simple rhythmic movement into profound nervous system regulation.
The science behind this approach is fascinating. Juggling creates bilateral stimulation (similar to EMDR therapy), activates both brain hemispheres, and releases neurochemicals that counteract depression and anxiety. For those stuck in trauma responses, the practice demands presence – you simply can't juggle while lost in rumination about the past or anxiety about the future. This forced presence, combined with gentle movement, creates what Kevin calls "medicine in motion."
What makes this approach particularly valuable is its accessibility, especially for those who struggle with traditional talk therapy. "For men especially, this can be your starting place," Kevin explains. "I know how hard it can be to sit down and talk, but what if healing came through motion? What if taking action was the first therapy that finally worked for you?"
Perhaps most surprising is how the therapeutic benefit extends beyond the successful catches to include the inevitable drops. Learning to drop objects without self-judgment becomes a powerful metaphor for releasing perfectionism and developing resilience. Starting with colorful scarves that slow movement and reduce fear, practitioners gradually build confidence while simultaneously calming their nervous systems.
Whether you're working through grief, anxiety, depression, or simply feeling disconnected from your body, this innovative approach offers a playful yet powerful path toward healing. Visit Kevin's website or connect with him on Instagram to discover how something as simple as tossing and catching might become your unexpected pathway back to wholeness.
Hey Kevin, Thanks for joining us, man.
Speaker 2:Thank you, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So, excuse me. So, just so everybody knows who you are, do you mind? Just giving us a quick introduction at the age of 17 and became a professional clown by age 18.
Speaker 2:A clown. In many ways is kind of like a psychologist with a red nose. Okay, we learn how to connect with our audience read emotion, respond with presence and, just you know, caring individuals overall.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would imagine having to connect at that level with so many people probably makes you pretty empathetic or means you need to be pretty empathetic.
Speaker 2:Right, right, and knowing you, you know who and when to approach. Yeah, uh, you know, uh, with all of the scary movies and such of that, and you know, uh, you just have to be aware gotcha go ahead, nope, okay, so, um, uh, yeah, so uh, what, uh? What I didn't know back then was that juggling would eventually become a way out, way out of darkness. I often say I used the force, the force of gravity, to juggle my way out of grief, anxiety, you know, maybe a little bit of depression, and I need a way of. You know, if juggling worked back then, where I was able to develop my body and mind, maybe this can happen again. Sure, that makes sense develop the toss.
Speaker 2:So, you toss one apple, then another, and then another, and then until it becomes motion, becomes medicine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would imagine it really brings a sense of presence too. You can't be off in la-la land and juggling apples.
Speaker 2:Right, right, exactly. You have to be present in where you're at and you know how your uh, uh, your posture and everything. So, uh, you're breathing and you have to be really at one with your objects, otherwise you're going to mess up. Sure, and um, so and so, but it didn't happen overnight. You know, it took a while. You know, so many years later, after I learned how to juggle and I was dealing with my grief and everything and all the turmoil that I was going through, I discovered that juggling was more than a skill. It was a healing art.
Speaker 2:And over the next three years, or the past three years from this point, I developed Toss Catch Heal, a somatic, rhythmic and therapeutic method that blends play, pattern and presence. Okay, and I want to emphasize the play. Uh, we're not doing uh reps here. This, this isn't physical therapy with the clipboard, right? Uh, this is uh, uh, you know, play a purpose, healing through movement. That feels good. Yeah, if for anyone who struggles to sit, still doesn't feel safe talking or just needs a way to reconnect with their body and nervous system through action, sure, nervous system through action.
Speaker 1:Sure, sure, I would imagine. Yeah too, if you were stuck in like a fight, flight type trauma response and that energy has got to get out of your body. You got to get it out somehow.
Speaker 2:It's usually light exercise or movement is what we, as somatic coaches, tell people to try to help get rid of some of that energy and some of that charge, to help help heal that and so, uh, one thing that I uh didn't mention was that, uh, after I became, uh, after I did clowning for about 10 years, I became a neuromuscular massage therapist, and uh, so that, uh, I've been connected with health basically my whole life, like the natural forms of health, and so I wanted to kind of learn about the human body for myself, for my own sake, as well as others, you know, helping other people. Sure, those two connections together really, you know, while I was in school I was able to massage school, I was able to use juggling to learn how learn the different, say, the joint movements, how the different joints move Right, and so, mechanics of the body.
Speaker 1:Basically right.
Speaker 2:Exactly, Exactly the mechanics of. And so, coming back more into the present, you know it's a. It brings awareness to your posture. If you're slumped or rigid, your juggling will reflect that it's going to be sloppy. But that's okay at first, right, You're just practicing, You're trying to learn it and you know things happen when you're in an emotional and mental slump. You're going to slump over for a while. Sure, that's just how the body works, right, and so we're going to. But eventually you're going to want to be successful with the juggling, so the body is going to naturally bring itself into a more proper position in order to relax and be able to do the motion of juggling.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure, and posture can be greatly affected by the type of trauma response you can be in. For example, like in a freeze response, you might slump and pull your body in and have that really slumpy kind of posture like you're talking about, and then, as that you move up through that nervous system, become more safe and present.
Speaker 2:you're automatically going to open up a little bit in the chest and straight out as a mt uh, neuromuscular therapy therapist um, in my office what I did was I I would take pictures of people's posture to show them exactly what was going on with their posture, and sometimes they would be leaning this way, sometimes this way or that way and a bunch of different ways, and it can really affect the person's mental and emotional state as well. So it goes both ways. You know the the injury or the, the injury to the nervous system, will affect your mood and vice versa.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean by the feedback loop between your body and your brain, right?
Speaker 2:Right, absolutely yeah. Yeah, I mean by the feedback loop between your body and your brain right Right.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, can you tell me about any, any success stories you've had, maybe just your own, with juggling and kind of how?
Speaker 2:it helps, aside from my own. I once I started working with myself, I I kind of figured, well, I, I need to find somebody. And so what I did was I uh actually went to a physical therapist, uh, uh, place a clinic, and but it wasn't really up their alley. So I moved on and I said, okay, well, I need to really buckle down here and start to do more research to figure out, okay, where is this going? Exactly Because I didn't have all my ducks in a row at that point, exactly because I didn't have all my ducks in a row at that point.
Speaker 2:And so I eventually I met a friend of mine now We've developed a friendship. But this man came on to a clone Facebook group and he said he was looking to become a clown. And I said you're already a clown, you just haven't had the proper training yet. And he just really grabbed on to that and I told him what I do and what I could probably help him do, and I told him about the juggling. And it turns out that he was a CPA, and we all know how CPAs are stressed out.
Speaker 1:Especially during tax season. Right.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and so we were figuring out okay, well, this is how we can work this out.
Speaker 2:We weren't quite sure at the time, but we worked it out to where we would do like an online correspondence where I sent him videos and he would send me videos back on his progress, and he did very well. Um, he's still working at it today because he doesn't uh, maybe he practiced every single day, but, uh, he does it often enough and he's working on it and he's gotten uh better at it and I think it has helped him with his you know stress levels in his job, and so I think that was a pretty good success. Um, and sorry, my screen went out um, so my uh, so I felt that was a pretty good success over uh, probably I've I'm still working with him today, but not as much on the juggling part. Uh, he's kind of working on his own for the most part. He's gotten the basics down, yeah, and every so often I'll interject and give them some pointers, um, but, um, we're working on some other uh factors. That's another story for another time. Sure.
Speaker 1:Uh, can you tell us a little bit about what led you to doing that? I mean, obviously you had already had some experience clowning, juggling and all of this stuff as a kid, so it was already a skill that you had. But what made you make the connection between? Well, first of all, what was the trauma that you went through? So, and then, how did you make the connection to juggling with that trauma?
Speaker 2:So in the in 2017, I had lost my sister. Uh, the two in 2017, I had lost my sister.
Speaker 2:Okay, and then, uh, in 19, I lost my uh dad. And then, in uh 2020, I lost my mom. And then, uh, I was dealing with uh basically having to sell my house, which I didn't really want to do. Um, yeah, it sounds like everything kind of fell apart on you. Yeah, it was falling apart on me and, uh, I didn't like I said, I didn't really. I felt like I was losing some control over what was going on, and so I felt, okay, well, um, I need to feel like I have a little bit of control, a little bit of more confidence in myself. Bring that back. And so I decided I practiced a little bit during the winter, but where I was located at that time, I was renting in someone's home and the ceiling was very low, so I couldn't really juggle clubs and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:Sure, you know, indoors no flaming bowling ball pins, huh.
Speaker 2:Right. And so during the spring, it was nice out. I said, okay, I'm going outside to see how this works and see if this brings back something. And so I started doing some club juggling and some other props, you know, juggling the three apples I have beanbags that look like apples, sure and so I was doing the club juggling. I was doing different tricks that I never tried before. I wanted to see how well I could do this and where where it will take me, and so I said, ok, I'm, I'm pushing forward, I'm trying new stuff, I'm pushing forward, I'm trying new stuff.
Speaker 2:And, lo and behold, I had a few successes. They weren't huge successes, they were a little bit success, but it felt big. And that's the key point. Right, there is that it felt big, and that was where the dopamine rush came, sure. And so, uh, that just felt really good, and so I kept doing it, and so that was the reward, uh, center of the brain, right, and uh.
Speaker 2:So I decided, uh, okay, I'm, I'm gonna, and it's sort of like a video game. You know, you land a different level of you know within the game and you get that reward of the dopamine rush. And so now I'm trying to do it more and more and more, and it's feeling good and you're feeling better about yourself, you're feeling confident. Oh, yeah, yeah, I'm doing it right, and so, uh, then the next step was, um, I was still dealing with some, uh, rumination of my thoughts, of what had gone on, still, and so I just kept practicing and I noticed that when I was actually doing the juggling, I was not thinking about all my past issues, I was thinking about the juggling. I was being centered, I was being grounded in the present moment. I was being centered, I was being grounded in the present moment. And so that was the next step. I noticed that rumination was quietly shifting away, and it wasn't gone completely, but it was just being shifted and being put on pause for a while.
Speaker 1:Yeah, are you familiar with polyvagal theory?
Speaker 2:I believe, so A little bit of it, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So basically it's. It's the concept that your nervous system is like a ladder.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And up here you're connected.
Speaker 2:Right, you're in your right, all up, you're in your safe connected space.
Speaker 1:This is where you're at when you're juggling Right. Right Down here is your freeze state. This is where you're at when you're sitting on the couch and can't get up Right. And then right here is your fight or flight. This is where you're fighting or running away, and the idea is to get any from anywhere on this ladder back to here takes mobilizing energy, which can be feel really uncomfortable. You know, when you're, when you're in that frozen state and you can't, there is no safety, right, right. What I love about this is it's it's creating safety because you're present. You have to be present in order to juggle. You know you're not gonna be much of a juggler if you're thinking about other stuff when you're trying to do it, so it forces you to be present. And it's also movement. So it's it's toning your vagal, your vagal nerve right, your ventral vagal nerve, while also mobilizing energy and help to process some of that stuck energy. I love it, man.
Speaker 2:It's cool and it's play, and so when you're playing you're not really thinking about all your troubles. You're playing and yeah, and so that play gives you that safe space to be yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, to be authentic and be present. Yeah, which is? I mean, that's the, that's the goal, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Now you said you were you did some studying into it and why it helps and that sort of thing. Would you mind telling us a little bit about that?
Speaker 2:so, um, let me bring up uh, let's see here. Uh, so we worked on. Uh, let's see, so the science. Uh, with toss, catch heel. The movement activates the bilateral stimulation, sinking both brain hemispheres, just like in emdr and brain spotting yeah, I didn't even think of that.
Speaker 2:That's, that's great uh, it helps regulate emotions by keeping the body moving while the brain processes safely. Uh, studies show motor learning boosts dopamine, as we just talked about uh neuroplasticity in the b bdnf that's the brain's fertilizer for growth and healing. Uh, it also reduces cortisol, our stress hormone. Uh, physiology, uh, physiologically, uh, it enhances balance proprioception.
Speaker 1:Can I interrupt you real quick? Yeah, the cortisol is super important. That's something I talk about a lot with my uh, with my followers is cortisol is the stress hormone that gets released when you're in that fight or flight situation and the only way to get out of it is to burn that energy. That cortisol is the energy that's what's to get out of. It is to burn that energy. That cortisol is the energy that's what's creating that sympathetic energy?
Speaker 2:So it makes total sense that it would help Seems probably help with that Right and from a neuromuscular therapist point of view, that's getting entrapped into your soft tissues, your, your fascia, your muscles, your connective tissues, all your ligaments and everything it's yeah, and it causes inflammation, causes down the road, can cause autoimmune disease, can cause all kinds of just wrecks, wreaks, havoc on your body, to mention. You know like they usually show the belly fat and all that stuff, right?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, who would have thought that juggling could help you lose weight?
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly All right man.
Speaker 1:Sorry for the interruption, I just needed to point that out.
Speaker 2:That's okay. So let's see. Like I said, physiologically, proprioception calms the nervous system through rhythmic breathing and posture awareness. We've kind of covered that. Psychologically, we tap into flow states and build self-efficacy, which Bandura showed is key to resilience, right? So what is a flow?
Speaker 1:state Kevin, so what?
Speaker 2:is a flow state, kevin. A flow state is when you are so zoned into something that you're not thinking about really anything else, right? And it's just flowing naturally to you in what's happening with you. And so I'm sure you're you're familiar with, uh, some of that as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so almost like an autonomic uh movement is what you're kind of talking about, right, like it becomes like second nature muscle memory, not right, exactly something you're thinking about yeah, right, and so, uh, you know.
Speaker 2:so we're not just juggling objects, we're juggling energy, emotion and even trauma in a structured, embodied way. It really is medicine in motion.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome, man man.
Speaker 2:So first of all say somebody wants to try this out or get in touch with you to learn more. How would they do that? So they can go to my website. It's coachhealthavenuescom with an S dot com. Forward, slash, toss, catch heal, and each beginning word, beginning letter, is a capital.
Speaker 1:You said you had a Facebook group as well, right?
Speaker 2:I have one. I don't work much with it, but I can do something once because I'm just really getting started into working with people, yeah, and what I'm here is to bring this to the masses and let them decide if that's something that they want to get involved with. So a good way for me to for people to get in, uh, get in contact with me, is probably uh, Instagram, which is uh, my uh name on Instagram is avenues health, so it's opposite.
Speaker 1:Gotcha, gotcha. Um, you know, from my perspective as a like a somatic coach, trauma-informed somatic coach, polyvagal theory, informed you know some people might look at this like this is crazy. Why would somebody try to do juggling to recover from trauma or being stuck in a trauma response? But it ticks all the boxes from a somatic perspective, you know it's. You've got the movement in there to discharge some of that sympathetic energy. It's pulling you into the present by forcing you to be present, because you're doing something manually with your hands and you have to use eye-hand-eye coordination, at least until you learn it right, at least until it becomes second nature. So these are both like the vagal toning.
Speaker 1:Like I was saying, the more time you can spend present, the more you are toning that vagus nerve. It's just like a muscle. You got to work it out and the more you work out, you know a lot of us who've been stuck in trauma responses for a lot of our lives I just realized we're just staring at you. A lot of us that have been Hold on one second I just lost my screen A lot of us that have been stuck in a trauma response for most of our lives. That part of our nervous system is really strong because it's it's done it. You know, that's where you've been, that's the muscles you've been using. So doing something like this that forces you to use those different mental muscles, it just makes perfect sense from a from a somatic standpoint.
Speaker 2:Here's a little note about myself that I didn't really share in the beginning. When I was born, my the doctors told my mom that I may never walk or talk, and so just, I've done a whole lot more than walk or talk. Yeah, I mean, I've ridden on unicycles and I don't do that anymore, but I have done it and uh, so I, I, I uh, do a lot of um, I just so, in the beginning of my juggling career, I had trouble spinning plates and so I just, um, bought myself a spinning plate not too long ago, maybe, I'll say about a month ago. Yeah, and I, uh, I learned the spinning plate and just like within I would say, three to four days, uh, where I got it down pretty decent, and I've been improving ever since then, but sure, so it was like boom, you know, and it was like wow, that didn't really take that long at all, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Cool, uh cool, so yeah. So what? What is your ideal clientele? I mean, who's, who is it that you're you're really reaching out to to help?
Speaker 2:well, I'd like to start with some people from the US, and the reason for that is what I do is I actually will uh send, uh, I'll have shipped to them uh equipment, uh that they need to get started with and what kind of equipment is that?
Speaker 2:uh, so it would be a set of scarves just like this, okay, and also a set of uh bean bags that will be custom embroidered with their name on it. Oh, very cool. That's so that they kind of know that they have something for themselves that nobody else has For them. If they want to share it, that's fine, that's up to them.
Speaker 1:So what about type of person Like who's going to benefit from this the most?
Speaker 2:So someone that has, you know, been through some grief, maybe narcissistic abuse, someone that's, uh, highly anxious, um, really anybody's just having a hard time being present, right?
Speaker 1:right dissociative disorders and right, depression, uh.
Speaker 2:Those are the main factors of uh that are in the studies for uh juggling exposure therapy and uh. So those are probably the key ones that I would like to start off with, but I'm actually open to others, such as adhd maybe. Uh, you know some people with uh, some uh mild autism. Um, you know some maybe a little more functional but you could just benefit from therapeutic movement. Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And uh. So yeah, those would be the, uh, the top ones. And then I have sort of another layer where I kind of feel like maybe down the line that I can start doing, uh, some work with people with, um, uh, parkinson's MS, stuff like that more neurological disorders exactly yeah, that's all, because it does help with neural pathways and absolutely yeah, and this is really cool.
Speaker 1:Okay cool anything else you need everybody to know, or?
Speaker 2:oh, I want to just talk to the audience at the moment.
Speaker 1:Sure, let me get you pinned up on screen so that my mug doesn't get in your way.
Speaker 2:I'm going to move my screen here, okay. So I want to speak to anyone listening who needs to hear this right now. You do not have to go back. You don't have to go back into your trauma today. You don't have to dive headfirst into your shadow to begin healing. That work will come later and should, but only after you have enough calm and strength to hold it Toss, catch.
Speaker 2:Heal is a tool. It's a flashlight and a map. It's a way to move you out of crisis mode first, so when you're ready, you can begin deeper healing work with more strength, clarity and calmness. And for men especially, this can be your starting place. I know how hard it can be to sit down and talk, but what if the healing came through motion and talk? But what if the healing came through motion? What if taking action was the first therapy that finally worked for you? I have another little message here.
Speaker 2:I want to share a personal story. My GP doctor, who sadly passed away last year, was a rare kind of integrative osteopath. He would geek out over this kind of material. He understood the mind-body connection very deeply and before he passed he actually told me I've always wanted to learn to juggle. I wish I could have taught him, but in some way, his curiosity helped me fuel my mission. This is for people like him too, the professionals like yourself, and you know other therapists coaches, different kinds of therapists, physical therapists. You know other therapists. Coaches, different kinds of therapists, physical therapists. You know occupational therapists, recreational therapists. They would all benefit from learning this particular type of method in order to help their clients. So yeah, clients.
Speaker 1:So, uh, yeah, cool, well, well, thanks. Uh, kevin, I really appreciate you coming on this once again. It's kevin halley. Um throw, you want to do a demonstration? Would that be something you could do? Just kind of show us what you're doing, yeah absolutely so.
Speaker 2:Uh, I want to uh just bring this up here. So we'll do the scarf demo, not to show off, but to kind of show how simple movements can unlock deep responses in the nervous system. Scarves are a great place to start. They slow things down, they remove the fear down. They slow things down, they remove the fear. They create an instant dopamine boost when you succeed, like we talked about before. That confidence builds fast and from there we add complexity, just like we build capacity.
Speaker 2:The scarves I use are color-coded for therapeutic benefit, each chosen intentionally to support mental and emotional healing Blue is for calm and nervous system regulation, green is for the growth and renewal, and purple for spiritual clarity, emotional transformation and inner wisdom. And so, like I said, I have these scarves here, I got that, and so we'll put this here. And so what we're going to do is we'll take the green one, and what we want to do is we want to kind of just stand, spread our legs out at shoulder length, shoulder width, and do our breathing in through the nose, out through the mouth, you know the drill. In through the nose, out through the mouth, you know the drill. And so now what we're going to do is, we're going to bring our arm up and we want it straight, but we don't want it rigid, like we were talking before. We don't want it rigid and we're going to bring it up from our side and up and we're going to flick our wrist up at the top and we'll let it go.
Speaker 2:And now, as we're doing that, we're tracking where the scarf ends up and, like I said, the scarf, it slows things down, so we don't have to worry about it hurting us or anybody, and it's just slowing it down and we can watch it. It's, it's relaxing in itself. Um, yeah, it really is. So we just want to kind of keep doing that for a few times, because what we're doing is we're actually training, training our muscle memory for this particular action, and this is leading up to other parts of the training. And we don't worry about dropping it. Dropping is a very important part of the learning process and it's also important to just let it go. We're letting go of the perfection that a lot of people hold within themselves oh, I got to be perfect, I got to. Oh, oh, I didn't catch it. Oh, darn, what's going to happen now?
Speaker 2:And so we're just going to let it drop. We're letting it drop, let the ball drop. You know, uh, we're letting the ball drop. Yeah, not a big deal life's, you know, um, the world's not gonna end right, and so we're just gonna keep doing that. And then, um, we can do that, maybe, let's say, five to ten times, and then we can go, uh, and now we're gonna take a deep breath again and, as we're, I want you to also check in on yourself and see how you're feeling during this process too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and how do you feel letting it drop? How do you feel as you're standing there doing this action? That's, that's really part of my program. It's not just about the juggling, it's really about being present in the moment and doing this exercise that's going to help bring ourselves back from the edge. I, like you know, I kind of feel like when I was going through my turmoil and all the stuff that was going on, I was heading towards the dark side of the force right, and I didn't want to feel like so, and I felt like I didn't want to go. Darth Vader on it yeah sure.
Speaker 2:And so I just decided, yeah, this needs to start changing. So it's being present in the moment as we're doing this exercise, so we can actually bring it to the other side. Look at it, don't worry about the mechanics of it, just do it, do the action, and uh, everything will uh come out just how it needs to down the road which is kind of like life right absolutely.
Speaker 2:I say that juggling is really a metaphor for life. It really is. There's so much that I've really picked up from juggling and I'm getting a little emotional about it because it has really changed my life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. I would imagine, if it was that powerful for you, that it can be that powerful for someone else too.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and that's why I felt like you know, can I bring this to other people and will they do this? And so that's where I wanted to really nail it down. Where's the science of it? How is it going to benefit people in the long run, and who's it going to benefit as well?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and in a world filled with energy work and crystals and planet alignments and woo-woo stuff, stuff, this is something that is grounded in science. It right, it checks all the boxes. Yeah I love it man cool, I ordered scarves.
Speaker 2:They just didn't get here in time oh, your scarf didn't get here in time yeah, that's okay, they'll get here exactly, yeah, I'm gonna try it out, do you so?
Speaker 1:is there a um? Do you post like exercises on your facebook page, or how do you get this stuff out to people?
Speaker 2:so, uh, I've only really gotten started. I want to start doing something, uh, a little bit more. I'd really like to kind of do a one-on-one coaching with people, uh online. So, like I said, I uh when I worked with stan, uh, my friend, he um, we, we went back and forth.
Speaker 2:Uh, I'd probably prefer doing more of a live thing, um, but I can do like a more of a correspondence type uh, uh thing as well uh, that's would say where this is going to benefit someone where I'm talking one-on-one with them, even online, and so because then I can kind of see, make little suggestions for corrections or whatever needs to happen. Yeah, so they can find me on Instagram. I'm obviously also on Facebook. They can find me through Kevin Howie. There's a. I have a my little icon for you know. My picture actually says and let's see how does it go Find joy in your journey.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and if you can give me, get me links to your different social accounts and your, if you have a website or anything like that, I'll include them in the show notes so that people can find it a little easier or anything like that.
Speaker 2:I'll include them in the show notes so that people can find it a little easier. I'll start probably trying to post a few more things that might be able to give a few little more hints to what they can do for themselves. The juggling is just one little part of it, because I'm a neuromuscular therapist at you know, um uh, with my knowledge of it, I'm not. I'm not actually uh licensed as a massage therapist now, but I can now uh definitely give uh some tips of self-care.
Speaker 1:Sure, Um yeah, self-care is incredibly important too right so I can teach that.
Speaker 2:I know uh, you know, a variety of different uh corrective exercises, from um active, isolated stretching to um, also a few qigong motions, and so just bringing that all together in an intuitive sense.
Speaker 1:And where are you located? What's that? Where are you located?
Speaker 2:I'm in Michigan, southeast Michigan, between Ann Arbor and Detroit.
Speaker 1:Gotcha, okay, cool. Well, thanks so much for coming on, kevin. I really appreciate it. I'll get those things shared for you If you can give them over to me. We'll make sure that everybody can get in touch with you, and I mean I'd love to have you back on on maybe a Facebook live or something where we can do a demo with some people.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, I'd love to have you back on on maybe a Facebook Live or something where we can do a demo with some people.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely, I'd love to do that Cool Well, thanks so much for joining us, man.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me.