How to Countdown to Your Empty Nest with Guest Dr Clare Roberts-Molloy

Are you dreading that empty bedroom? That empty place at the dinner table? That empty feeling in your heart?

Are you trying to stay positive a your bird launching journey begins?

Well, you're not alone. I know just how you are feeling, and so does my Guest Midlife Mindset Action and Speaker Coach Dr Clare Roberts-Molloy.

As Clare prepares for her third child - and only daughter - to head to university, we reveal first-hand insights from our own Empty Nest experiences that will help you navigate the coming days, weeks and months. 

And thanks again to Clare for lifting the lid on an form of empty nesting that we just don't talk about enough - when it's not planned or expected. Clare shares shame it can make you feel as a Mum, and the lessons she has learned from living through this emotionally charged time. 

Connect with Clare

https://www.clarerobertsmolloy.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/clare-roberts-molloy/

https://www.instagram.com/midlife.magic.maker/

https://www.facebook.com/cecroberts

https://x.com/cecroberts

Transcript

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SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to Midlife Unlimited, the podcast for women who want more. I'm your host, Kate Porter, the Midlife Metamorphosis coach, and I know what it's like to feel stuck navigating the midlife maze. I've looked in the mirror and thought, who is that woman? So Midlife Unlimited is here to let you know you are not alone. You don't have to put on a brave face and put up with it. You don't have to play it safe. Midlife Unlimited is all about ripping off that mask and telling midlife how it really is. Nothing is off limits, because together there's no limit to what we can achieve. So welcome to today's episode. Now, are you dreading that empty bedroom? That empty place at the dinner table? Just that empty feeling. Well, with exam season over and the summer holidays looming, are you trying to stay positive as your bird launching journey begins? Well, you're not alone. I know exactly how you're feeling, and so does my guest today. Because I'm delighted to be joined by Dr. Claire Roberts Malloy, midlife mindset, action and speaker coach, to talk about how to count down to your empty nest. So welcome, Claire. It's fabulous to have you here.

SPEAKER_01 1:26

Hi, Kate. Thank you for inviting me. I've been wanting to get on your podcast for ages.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

Well, I don't know how it's taken so long. For goodness sake, it's almost 18 months old. It is wonderful to have you here, and I'm so excited. You're going to be in Midlife Unlimited, the book as well. But enough about, we're not going to talk about that now. We're here to talk about empty blinking nesting. And do you know, reading that intro, and yes, viewers, I write the intro, I read it, because if I tried to remember that, I'd just who knows where I'd go with it. I've got a lump in my throat just reading that. That has brought back, and my boy's 24 now, he's been through university, he's living in London now. Gulp. That was like a big wrench again. But these feelings, people gloss over it, they don't, and it is real. Some for some women and men, it's a breeze. Great. But it is something that needs talking about, I think, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 2:18

Absolutely. Yeah, I think I'm in that position now. Um where my my my daughter, she's just in the very last few weeks of college, and and it's not that far away September. No, it's really not, but in my head, I've pushed it really far away because I don't think I want to sort of accept it.

SPEAKER_02 2:39

Yeah, but it's it it is a matter of weeks, and um I think for you as well, because she's your baby, for want of a better word. You you you're now mummed three adults, so you've had the 18th celebration, you've had your birthday as well, so you're doing your own countdown to 50. You're everything's just been busy, busy, busy, hasn't it? And now it's that kind of like, ooh, okay, it's getting very real. Not in a bad way, because we wouldn't change it, even if we could.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

No, no, well, this is what we this is what we want for you know for our kids, isn't it? Yeah um, and I always say I've you know, I've always thought that I've done a really good job as a parent if I've helped them grow the wings so that they can fly. Um, you know, that and that's what we want, you know, and we'll come on to, you know, as you say, I've got three adult children, it's not completely new to me, but it's you know, the last that last uh the last one.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

I say I I only had one, but I did it because he did a year in industry, so he was home for a bit, then he went back to university and then he came back again home. So it feels like I've been through it at least twice. Yeah, but also something that I think people gloss over as well. Not only is I say I've only got one child, adult child, you've got three, and I'm sure the relationship with each child and the experience of them moving away, and it's not just going off to college or university or whatever, they could just just generally moving out, even if it's a split move out, perhaps they're moving away to a different town for work, but still every situation is different, is it? That's why there's no sticking plaster, there's no solution. It's all about talking about how you're gonna feel and letting the feelings come.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

Yeah, yeah. And you know, obviously, we've we've had pre-chats before before we've recorded this today. And you know, I've got three adult children, and I feel like my sons, they didn't follow that traditional route of A levels and then uni, um, you know, because we had that wonderful thing called COVID in between that sort of stops and plans and delay things. And then with them, their sort of leaving of the nest has felt like it's a bit of a dress rehearsal because it has been that stop, start, stop, start, stop, start. Um, so that hasn't felt so impactful. We'll come on to talk about my middle son, I'm sure, which has been a slightly different journey um and painful in different ways in it in its in its own right. But with my daughter, I think because she has been following that traditional path, and as you say, she is my youngest. Um, we've always had this incredibly close bond. Um, you know, she's she's mini, mini you, you said she is, she's always been like my shadow, you know. So we've always been really close, and I wanted to go away. I wanted to go, you know. We said to her, please don't choose a local university, please go away. We want you to get a experience. Yeah, it's part of it's you know, it's it it for me, my own journey through university was just it, it it made me, and I think it's so important for them to go through that sort of journey. But yeah, at the moment I'm like, Yeah, it's gonna be fine, you know, it's not gonna be a problem. But yeah, when she's not there um on an evening going, Mom, yeah, you know, or we're not having those conversations, or she's not asking me for a lift somewhere, or um, you know, we're not popping off for a coffee together, or or any of that. Um, I think that's when it will it will hit. And I think you I've got a very busy diary, I've got lots of things planned, and I've got you know events and all sorts of things going on post-her move out day.

SPEAKER_02 6:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:27

And in my diary, it's just kind of a let's not look at that yet.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

No, I say we will be going into our well, not not necessarily top tips, but insights, lessons learned that we're going to be sharing. And I'm delighted that you're gonna be sharing yours as well. But before we go into that, there was a wonderful, we both literally said the similar thing. That moment of realization now that they are going. And as you just said, you have wonderful, you know, you go out for coffee with your daughter, all sorts, go out for meals, and it is that moment of hang on a minute, how are they actually going now? Because surely we're only in about our late 20s anyway, ourselves, aren't we? Well, I'm 25. I don't know about you, Kate. I mean, you're a little bit younger than me, but absolutely. And we said, you know, when you're out with them and you're having a great time, maybe even having a little boogie and you nip to the loo and you catch sight of is they who on earth? Who who's that grey-haired woman in the queue of the loo? Oh my god, that's me. And it is a it's a wake-up call, isn't it? I think the first thing is they're going, oh now what? This is who, what, where, how, why?

SPEAKER_01 7:34

Yeah. And she came. I mean, I don't know about you know your listeners' um experiences with their kids, but my daughter absolutely loves it. As soon as I've gone to bed, she likes to come for a chat before she goes to bed. Does she sit on the bed? One more drink. You know, it's that sort of a one more story. It's sort of she um she ends the day by she has to just come and sort of check in with me. And it was a few evenings ago, and she came, she came into my room. I was I was reading, and she said, Um, will my bedroom still be my bedroom? That is such a big question.

unknown 8:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:13

Because like Finney now lives in London, but it's still his room, even though he's only gonna be coming home a couple of times a year just for a night or so. Yeah, I still call it Finney's bedroom.

SPEAKER_01 8:23

Yeah, well, I was like, of course it would, it will be. It hadn't entered my head that it wouldn't be. Um, and I think the other thing is obviously for a young person leaving home, it's a fundamental shift for them. It's absolutely huge. You know, they can't even sort of comprehend what that's gonna be for them yet. But three years isn't that long in the grand scheme of things. Yeah, you know, for us, the years race by as we get older, and so for them it probably seems like forever. But I'm like, of course your bedroom's gonna be here because we just don't know what's going to, you know, might be coming back. Lots of lots of kids do move back, uh whether on a temporary or a more permanent basis. So yeah, but that made me think, oh gosh, this feels more final when she was asking.

SPEAKER_02 9:11

No, absolutely. I mean, you just reminded me of that moment of goodbye in the I mean, Finley was in halls at Birmingham, and that that last hug in the veil car park, I I can feel it now, I can visualize it. And he was a COVID A-level baby, I almost said then, no teenager. And had I known, because the longest we'd been apart probably was a week or so when he did World Challenge, you know, or Duke of Edinburgh, that kind of thing. Had I known at that hug, when I was bawling my eyes out anyway, saying goodbye, in my head it was like be a couple of weeks. I didn't want him to come home or see him too quickly. I wanted him to settle in, but I thought maybe a month or something, we'll pop up and see him. Had I known it was going to be three months due to the wonderful COVID until we saw each other, ha ah, I think I I don't think I'd have got in the car. I think I'd have found I'd have gone and stayed with the caretaker or something in the halls of residence.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

It is that yeah, that gulp moment. That's the bit that I'm sort of locking away and not focusing on too. No, because I think I like to think I'm compart can compartmentalize quite easily, I'm quite resilient, keep on keep going as we tend to do. Um, and I'm not putting my focus on that yet because I think that will be the bit, that will be the realization. Oh, aren't you doing two on the same day or the same weekend? Yeah, so we drop so my daughter moves into her university halls. Well, it's a house um on campus at Lipper in Liverpool on the 5th of September, I believe it is. And then on the 6th, we move my son into his second-year university accommodation.

SPEAKER_02 10:58

So, yeah, so it's going to be um yeah, lots of coffee on the road, yeah, road trip. Oh my goodness. So, have you got something nice planned for you and Dee for the Sunday night?

SPEAKER_01 11:13

Yeah, well, originally before we um before we realized the clashroom might with my son's accommodation, we were going to stay in Liverpool. So we were going to sort of because I love Liverpool, you know, city. Uh I'm so pleased Sophia's going there. But we were going to leave her to get settled in and you know to you know, find out who her housemates are and and all of that. And then we were going to go and stay in Liverpool and have a night at ourselves and not interfere with her. Um but yeah, that's what we've got. But now we've got to get back, we've got to get back to Wolverhampton and um get ready to transport our son the next day. So it's going to be a very busy weekend. But have we got anything planned? I'm sure I'm sure we will. I'm sure we will get something.

SPEAKER_02 12:01

Um that that's it. I mean, we're not we're not trying, as I say, we're not trying to put sticky plasters on, and we will go into our tips in a bit. We're not trying to put sticky plasters on, but it is all I found really helpful, and I still do, I still do, because I still like he he phones me most mornings on his way to East Putney tube. We have a little chat, which I love because it's it's the same as when we used to do the school run, you know, the little the chats in the car then, because my my guest Jeanette and I, the episode 83, we were both saying some of the best chats are those little car journeys to school, etc., aren't they? Because you're not dish dashing in and out. And we put the world to right, and he tells me about, you know, oh, this, you know, this is happening today. And now I've had the the change in me that now I can say, Oh, I'm doing this or I'm doing that. You know, I told him I was recording with you this morning, and he was like, Oh, brilliant, you know, and he's heard me talk about you before, and he and empty goes, Oh god, mum, you're talking about emptinessing, don't cry. No, because the episode I did last year with Sheena, we I think I'm willing up now. We we recorded it. I think it was March time because no one talks about it in March. And that's how raw listeners, it's when we're saying it's a natural emotion, and maybe I'm a bit not, I won't say pathetic. I'm quite an emotional person, but I think bottling it up is probably the worst thing that would for me personally. We say, you know, don't put on the brave face. I don't I'm not saying bore everyone to tease about it, going on, oh god, here comes K. But it's finding that balance, isn't it? Yeah, and it's finding people that you can talk to about it.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, my kids they they tease me a little bit, and um, because they you know, they say to me, they went, Oh, if you could, you'd keep us all with you forever, wouldn't you? And I would like, well, well, yeah, I do want you to go and have adventures, I want you to go and explore, but yeah, I don't want to sort of, you know, that's temporary. Go off and do that and then come back. Um, and my wife just shakes her head at me.

SPEAKER_02 14:02

She's like, Claire, really, you need to uh well I I don't I don't know what I've obviously liked a post in the last week or so on Instagram, and now my feed is full of all these mums doing similar videos. It's like a flashback to them driving along with the car full of screaming kids, shouting and punching and uh music blaring, and then it flashes to her looking wistful on her own in the car, looking really sad, and I'm like, oh god, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:34

I think but those car journeys that you mentioned are are so so foundational, really. Um, you know, we've had some terrible car journeys when Sophia, you know, really didn't get on well with school. I, you know, was making a go-in, and I was the evil mother for making a go to school. You know, we've been through all of that trauma and but then we've had the best times in cars as well. We have our we sing together, we have our own little discos, we've you know, we've always created songs, so we have our own song for um to get the the traffic lights to change colour that we've sang since she was little, and even now when when we were in a road.

SPEAKER_02 15:10

Should I ask you to sing it?

SPEAKER_01 15:12

Uh well, I I might do, I might give Sarah an AG. Um it might be your midlife anthem, it might be, it might be it. But it basically goes, lights, lights, please turn green, the most wonderful colour that we ever have seen. Please let us through and on our way, and we will have a wonderful day. And that oh, I love that. Yeah, and that's we've we've sang it. Well, I created it when she was tiny. We've sang we we sing it all the time. And if we're in a rush, and you know, you hit every red light. Oh come on, let's sing our song, and we both just we're both in the car singing it. So it's all these little memories, you know. Um, we'll still have it. It's not like we'll never have that again, it's just it'll be less frequent.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

Well, I think I mean, I've got obviously another book that I'm working on that it's called Your Empty Nest Epiphany, and it will come out. It started as a little freebie, and it was so popular that I thought, no, I'm gonna turn it into something and actually bring you know more stories and everything into it. But it is so many times that you say those moments, and they will come, they will come as you go through the whole process. But believe me when I say, and Claire, you'll know this, that what will start with the lump in the throat when when you start singing that song to yourself, there will come a time, it's almost like a grief process. There will come a time when you start singing it and you're laughing, you're blinking head off, and you're like, and it's as if she's there next to you. But it is that transition period, and it is like a grief process, really.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

It is, yeah. And I think and I mean, like you have your conversations with your son each day. My daughter, she she likes to communicate with me, she will be messaging a lot. It's you know, it's not like when I went to uni, and possibly when you went to uni, we had a 10 peas. We had to queue for 10 pieces, yeah. Um, so you might phone your your parents, you might phone home like once a week, maybe Sunday night. Yeah, and you know, they they had to take a chance and phone the house that that phone and hope there was somebody around to answer it, and maybe you were actually there to speak to them, which was very unlikely. Yeah, you know, so at least we do have that now. The technology is there that we can stay in touch, we can always keep those conversations going and that communication going. So I'm thankful for that.

SPEAKER_02 17:34

Yeah. No, I say communication is key. And I I mentioned grief, and I just wanted to say that the the actual emptiness syndrome, I hate the word syndrome, but the three stages are grief, relief, and joy. And I find joy such a weird word, which is why I use epiphany. But we'll we'll touch on that later because we're not here to be scientific, we're here as two mums chewing the grass, saying this is how it is. Now we mentioned earlier, and obviously, and we are going to go into our insights later on, but we mentioned earlier that not every journey is the same, and obviously Sophia is following the more traditional route, as Finley did, um, with with COVID, etc. Because I think am I right saying Sophia was GCSE type? No.

SPEAKER_01 18:18

She'd she'd uh she'd started secondary school uh in the September as uh I think as we went into lockdown.

SPEAKER_02 18:25

Oh god, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:26

Finley was A levels, so that was just so it was um yeah, because her older brother, Ethan, I think he's a set similar age to Finley, he's 25. So yeah, exactly, yeah, 24. So he he was just finishing or just finished sort of A-level time. Um, and you know, he'd got plans to go travelling and all these wonderful things that obviously then couldn't happen.

SPEAKER_02 18:49

But yeah, it's not and I know I know people died, and I I know that is horrendous, but I do think our kids, it's just the silly things like the the prom and things like that. And I know it I'm I know it sorry I'm listeners if you f think I'm sound frivolous, but those are the things that really upset me, the fact they missed out like your son going travelling, and it's like time is precious, isn't it? Which is why we're gonna be talking about magical moments, but yeah, your your middle son though, his the empty nesting process for you and him was very different.

SPEAKER_01 19:24

Do you mind talking about it? No, no, no, no, because as I said before, I think it's important we don't we don't always address these things, you know, there's a level of shame attached to things sometimes. I think we it you know it it's not good for us, and it's not you know, sometimes things happen that aren't a direct reflection of us as parents. But we think they are that that's we think they are, and we we sort of internalize it and and feel this enormous sense of shil shame and guilt. But yeah, so just just to round off that that sort of COVID time, I had Ethan, who was you know missed out on going travelling, Caleb, my my middle child, he was he was the ch one of the children who didn't get to sit their GCSEs, so that's how that impacted him. So that was quite significant. The other way that um sort of my heart really broke for him was he was meant to go on a trip to Paris and they cancelled it. And you know, when you have you your heart just breaks for your child with their level of disappointment, so that was that was that was painful, but then the to rub salt in the wounds, they then posted him the hoodie that they should have had for the trip. Oh god, with his name and you know, parish trip, whatever on it. So and and to he's never actually accepted this hoodie. It's it's actually in my wardrobe, he won't even look at it. So there's you know trauma around that. But yeah, in terms of in terms of Caleb, um, yeah, his journey to leaving home was w was different in that he he had uh I don't know, it wasn't even really a falling out. He he was not he had a his mental health took a dip and he was not in a great place. And because of that, he uh assumed uh situations that weren't necessarily fact, although they were very real for him, and he decided that for whatever reason he was he was not welcome in our house or he didn't want to be in our house. Oh gosh. But rather than speaking to us about that, he while we were out moved out and uh you know his dad and I haven't been together for a very long time, so I thought he'd just gone to visit his dad, but he didn't come back and he had moved a lot of his things out. Um actually, I think got a taxi and moved his things out while we were out, uh, all because of a you know, because we challenged some of his behaviours, which at the time we didn't realise was this mental health spiral. So we We had a number of things at play there. We had the um the dawning realisation that this young man's mental health was not in a good place and he needed all of this support. But also I felt an enormous sense of rejection that I had done something wrong and that as a mother I'd failed him. And it was a really, really painful, tough grief process. Made worse by the fact that his father and I can't communicate. I can't, you know, I don't have any communication with him unless it's I mean, probably once every couple of years, maybe an email, if absolutely necessary. But other than that, we have no direct communication. So there was no way for me, once he was in his father's house, to force any communication if Caleb didn't want to. Um, and there was a period of time where trying to get anything out of him, he wouldn't answer phones, he wouldn't respond to messages for weeks. Um, it it was a really it was a really tough time. I just want to normalise that really, you know, that these things happen. Um, and I know I'm not in isolation here. I've known lots of friends and um other connections who have been through this painful separation with a child. I'm really, really um pleased that we now have the most fantastic relationship. As I, you know, he's been through a journey. We supported him through that, we've got him through all of that. He's come out the other side, an absolutely amazing young man who's strong, resilient. He's gone to uni, um, which he rejected originally, he wouldn't go, um, even though he had five offers. Um, but he's gone now and he's just living a he's he's living a great life. He's off travelling, having adventures, doing all of that. So, you know, that was a really painful separation. He's never ever come home. Wow. From that point, um, he's staying at night over Christmas, but he's never sort of come home fully.

SPEAKER_02 24:01

Um, the lack of being able to even uh prepare for it or you know, just that uh shock.

SPEAKER_01 24:10

Yeah, yeah. It was all consuming for weeks. I just could you know, for for me, it was it was it was a huge grief process, you know. When you you lose someone, you just can't see outside of that immediate situation because the grief is so intense in that moment, and that was that was for me that lasted weeks if if not if not months before we started to sort of unpick, you know, our way through it with him.

SPEAKER_02 24:35

Because I know if if you're anything like me, I I like to know the why. I want to know what you know what so that you can try and fix it. And I know you can't always fix everything, I know things are beyond your control, but I I'm very much that kind of person. I I need I need to get answers, and I so to not be able to must have been absolutely devastating, really.

SPEAKER_01 24:56

Yeah, it was it was painful.

SPEAKER_02 24:59

But it's joyous that now you're in this wonderful place and he he's going back to uni on that busy, busy, busy weekend.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So um, and that's what I say. Although he's been, you know, at uni, he's been at his dad's, he's all sorts of things, he's he's become a little bit of a nomad, I think, but he knows he's ultimately he has a home here. You know, he's always got that got that space. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:30

I love that because before before we go into our insights, that that word you just used, home, I think that's one of the words that basically underpinned so much of the whole empty nesting or bird launching. I think that's um I don't know where that phrase came from. I'm not sure where I heard it, but it's a slightly more empowering and and positive because it's like it is all about launching them, isn't it? Not throwing them out, but helping them fly, helping them fly. But I think a lot of the thoughts, particularly that I was feeling, was oh, this isn't his home anymore. Uh, you know, he he he's now moved on. This is now an area, not just the physical bricks and mortar, but the whole, will Christmas ever be the same? Will birthdays ever be the same? And you can go round and round and round and round and round in circles, can't you?

SPEAKER_01 26:19

Yeah, you can. And it seems really cliche, but you know, I always say to them, wherever I am, you know, I can't say that we'll stay in this house forever, but wherever we go, you will have a home. Wherever I am, you will have a home, you know. We'll even if it even if I for whatever reason ended up in a in a one-bed flat, I'd always make it because where I'm you know, because I think home, as you say, goes beyond that bricks and mortar piece. It's more of a it's more of a it's a feeling, isn't it? It's a feeling of of comfort and and uh where you belong and the people that you sort of belong with. And sometimes that's not your biological family. No, absolutely. Um, you know, as we as we get older, we tend to realise, well, who are the people who are important to us, who do create that sense of home for us. Um, and yeah, for a lot of people that's not their their immediate biological family. So yeah, you'll always have a home. And Christmases change, don't they? Birthdays change. That's been a big one for me because I'm a huge celebrator of birthdays. Not having my kids with me on their birthday has been something I've experienced for the first time this year.

SPEAKER_02 27:30

Yeah. Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_01 27:32

And I've had to say, but that's okay, Claire, because they're doing what they want to do on their birthday.

SPEAKER_02 27:37

And that's what that's exactly what I and even if they don't get a chance to phone or whatever, it's like there is a reason. They haven't forgotten you, but they're off doing their thing. Oh well, I think that that leads really nicely into what I would say was my biggest lesson that I learned, and it's something we've touched on already, but it is that whole idea of yes, it's happening, and we are feeling pretty shit about it, whatever our relationship is with our kid, and this is obviously in situations where we know it's coming, the countdown is on, as we say, but we wouldn't change it if we could, and so being proud is something that really helped me just to pause and go, actually, Kate, I may not have been the world's best mum. I know I wasn't the world's best mum, but I pulled myself together and I've helped my little man get to where he's going, and that in itself, you know.

SPEAKER_01 28:44

Yeah, and that's what I've I've always said for for me to feel successful as a parent has always been one, getting them to 18.

SPEAKER_02 28:54

Yeah, you've done that.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

Something just felt like this this sort of landmark moment. Uh I remember when my my elders, when he was first born, I was only I'd just turned 24, literally a few weeks into being 24 when he was born. And you know, you you go through all this. I thought I was so grown up at the time. I now look at my kids who are that age, and I'm like, you cleverly at all. But you think you know the you think you know everything, don't you, when you in youth. And I remember, you know, visitors had gone home and everything else, and there I was with this tiny little thing. I was like, oh, and that that that dawning realization that I was now responsible for this human. And in my head, I just made a promise to him, I'll keep you safe and well, and I'll get you to 18. And it was this promise I made in that moment, and it kept and it stayed with me forever. And um, and you know, when I when I met my wife, I told her about it, and I was like, his 18th birthday's coming up, and it was like this thing, you know, every day one day closer, one day closer. And on his 18th birthday, actually, you know, went into his bedroom. I was like, I've done it, you're still alive.

SPEAKER_02 30:06

Give me, yeah, I want the celebration.

SPEAKER_01 30:09

Yeah, and and so it's been a bit of a sort of a a family joke. So um, so when you know, when it so once they get up to adulthood, it's always been a huge celebration, as it is, you know, for for uh for for most families. But yeah, it's just yeah, it makes me smile, and I think that's the thing I always said to them, I've done parenting well. If one you will get to 18, but also you can all shop for yourself, cook for yourself, do your own washing, look out, you know, and do all of that stuff, and you can leave this house as an independent, fully rounded person, as much as physically possible. Um, and I think all of my kids can do that, they're all going off, and they're just so you know, they're all excited for what's next, and that's the way it should be. And I think back to when I was their age because it's still really vivid in my memory, and I just wanted to go off and do my own thing, you know. I s you still love your you still love people behind. It's not like you're rejecting them, you're still loving them, they're still important to you, but your future and your adventures and everything you've got coming is also out there to be taken with both hands. And so talking about top tips, that's for me. I just just remember what it was like when you were their age. Absolutely. Pull yourself in their shoes. It doesn't mean that that leaving home is a rejection of you, it doesn't mean that leaving home means that you're any less of anything, it means you've done a really good job most of the time because you've equipped them.

SPEAKER_02 31:43

And as you say, you know, that cheesy song, you know, the you're the wind beneath their wings, so select I won't sing it, I won't sing it, but no, because I don't know if danger is the right word, but there is a danger when we're feeling, oh my god, my life's changing, my role as a mum is changing, to go down guilt trip alley, and we don't want them because I'm pretty sure that if we guilt treat them like well, what will I do? Will you know you need to phone me? The more pressure we put on them, the more guilt we put on them, they are likely. Well, most kids, adult, are likely to go, fuck that mum. And once they're at once they've gone, like, do I really want to phone mum? Because all she's gonna do is I miss you, I miss I mean, yes, tell them you miss them, great, but oh, it's a high it's a fine line, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 32:35

Yeah, yeah, it's and it is that messaging, it is the language you use around it. So yeah, I always try to be as supportive with my with what I say to them and be as positive. So I don't tell them to be safe. I don't say take care or be, you know, I'll say, or I might say be safe, but I won't say take care, because I think take care almost sounds like you don't trust them in a way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:02

So I no, that's a good point.

SPEAKER_01 33:04

So I always always say um I love you, go and have a fantastic time, and look after you, you know, take you know, um not take care, but like be safe, or or I'll just say, I'll see you later. Love you, have a fantastic day. You know, I always wrap it up like that. Um the only thing I ever say to them is if they do, you know, if they go away for a weekend or a week or two weeks or whatever, I'll just say, just remember, just let me know you're alive occasionally.

SPEAKER_02 33:33

No, I still do it, I still do it. So finish 24. And I it's like the three pips. I don't know if you ever did that, but my grandma, bless her, when I used to go back having come home for the weekend or whatever, go got back to university, give her three pips. We didn't wait, she didn't have to pick up, it just meant ring, so it goes three rings on the telephone, and that was just to let her know I'd got back three pips. Three pips. No, I do he's he's quite good. I say, Oh, just let me know you've got back. But yeah, I just when I've dropped him at the train, I learned it's only about five minutes' drive home, and I just text say or WhatsApp him saying safe travels or love to see you so safe travels. So it is safe, but I yeah, I'm putting I'm putting the emphasis on the train driver rather than Yeah, and I I do say that, like um, you know, when Caleb comes back and sees us, you know, for a weekend or or whatever it is, he, you know, he's got into the habit now of um he'll just he message me when he's on the train and he'll message me when he gets back, you know, to wherever he's going to.

SPEAKER_01 34:37

And he'll just go, you know, yeah, I'm back, I'm home, or whatever words he wants to use. And that's enough, isn't it? To uh to give me reassurance and peace of mind.

SPEAKER_02 34:49

Well, I think that's that's what it is, isn't it? Because you we're not we don't want to set, I mean, we'll perhaps talk about boundaries in a minute, but we we don't want to set too high a standard for them, A, because it's putting a shitload of pressure on them, which isn't fair, but also then if if we go, oh, he's gonna phone she is gonna phone me every day, da da da, if they don't, it's just gonna cause disappointment and upset to us. So I think as you say it, it's trying to be as flexible as possible, knowing that it'll come, we'll we'll get that confirmation or we'll get something. But uh what I'd like to do a minute now is kind of reel back because as we said, we're coming out end of June. They're still here, they haven't gone yet. And what can be tempting, and I know I probably did it, I won't say guilty because I don't use that word, is to not waste the few the weeks coming up, but kind of constantly have that countdown, oh X days to go, X days to go. So I think it's a good time just to pause now, and you don't have to be planning earth-shattering massively expensive holidays to the Caribbean and all that kind of thing, but just to try and build into your diary, everyone's busy, I know that. But some me and them time just to and and and but what what what feels not? I mean, if you never do anything together, it's gonna feel a bit weird if you suddenly go, right, we are going to go out for the day and spend all day together having fun. No, we don't want to be the fun place, but just try and carve some time, I think. Yeah, create some little memories, take photos as well. Take photos.

SPEAKER_01 36:28

Yeah, I I mean I'm I'm a big, big believer in taking photos. I take photos all the time. I don't um to the point that my kids are like, Oh my god, we stopped taking pictures. I'm like, but that's I like that that's important. And just but the thing is, they come to me and they're like, when did we do such and such? And when was such and such? I was like, Well, let me have a look on my phone because I've got those memories, yeah. Um, and it's something I've tried to instill in them, but they're less, naturally less inclined to do it. So um Ethan and Caleb they went to uh to a concert. I'd bought it was part of Ethan's birthday tick present. I bought him tickets, um, he went with his brother, and um, you know, I was away in Port Marion, as we previously spoke about, and the next day I was like, How was it? Was it amazing? And they're like, Yeah, it was amazing. I was like, Oh, send me a picture, but didn't take any. Didn't take any. We were in the moment, which is wonderful. It's absolutely wonderful. I was like, but couldn't you just take one picture and then being in the moment?

SPEAKER_02 37:32

No, I do the same. Fin is quite good. I mean, it's funny with his friends, not so much now, obviously, because I don't see them as much, but if there was ever a photo op, I'd be like, go and get together. And a lot of them were like, and Finn's like, look, just do it because she won't, she won't shut up until you get together. He's like, he's there smiling. He never takes a well, very rarely takes a bad photo because he just stands there, smiles, photo done, mum happy, tick, right, get on with it. But when I'll say, Oh, did you take he's getting he's like, Yes, I did. I'm like, where is it? Oh, I didn't. I just told you I did. But it is, yeah. Yeah, he's like I was being mind, yeah, I was being mindful, mum, mum. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:12

Yeah, yeah, they throw it back at you, don't they? No, but my kids are like that, especially around Christmas and birthdays and celebrations. I'll like picture, they're like, oh, and then they just do it anyway. Because then the quicker they do it, the quicker it's over with.

SPEAKER_02 38:24

Yeah, grab the pets, grab the pets. But another thing, when we mentioned, say, boundaries just now and communication, etc. But one thing that it wasn't it didn't so much apply to me, but I know people that it has applied for, and I will I think it is important to talk about literally. If there's anything niggling, if there's anything that's been bubbling under the surface that you've been covering up or you've been pretending isn't there, while you still got them in front of you, I would say have that conversation that you've been putting off. Because once they are gone, whether it's forever, whether it's just till Christmas, that's still quite a lot. It's gonna make it harder to have that conversation. Whatever it is, it could be the most stupid little thing, but if it's niggling you, it's worth having the conversation.

SPEAKER_01 39:20

Do you think? Yeah, it's worth having the conversation. I think it's how you approach that conversation. I think um, you know, every every every child will be different, every young person's different, but it's it it's not starting that conversation where there's a defensiveness that can come about, or you know, like you're laying blame. You just yeah, just finding a way of openly exploring it um without it becoming a um because you don't but the the last thing you want to do is exacerbate the situation, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 39:54

No, absolutely I'm just thinking in in the same way as like you know, don't go to bed on an argument with a you know with a marry couple type thing. It's almost letting them go off for their new adventure with a clean slate, so to speak. So they're not taking any of your emotional crap with them. It's like, yeah, this we're in a good place, this is good. We're not gonna agree necessarily, but it's like a freeing of rather than you feeling you're holding on to stuff.

SPEAKER_01 40:21

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And I think for for the me, I the way I'm seeing it is this move to university for Sophia will be um incredibly exciting, it will also have a lot of worries attached to it because it's a change, and you know, and so it's making it a positive experience, and I'm really celebrating that with them. So, so we're looking at it, although you know, there's part of me that's like, what am I gonna, you know, that moment, as you say, that last hug, that trying not to let them see you cry or upset until you get in the car and and all of that kind of thing, but actually making it a really exciting journey and process over the summer. At the moment, she's very focused on right, I've got to get this assignment in, and I need to do this, and I need to do that. So that's her focus at the moment. And then once all that's over, it's creating all those memories over the summer. You know, we might be doing a garden project. Fine, sauce bons, yeah. And it's going on that IKEA trip, isn't it? It's going to do all of that stuff and that all that and she's already like, Oh, I can't wait to have my own things for her. That's she's a she's a natural little sort of homemaker, she's got that, she likes she's a very caring, nurturing person. That's her, that's just who she is, and so she can't wait to almost create her own nest. And so facilitating that with her and sharing in the excitement with it, not always being, but you're leaving me, you know, all of yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:52

I think that's one thing I didn't, and I don't know if it was even intentional. I didn't even say anything about feeling homesick or anything like that to Finley. I just thought, no, absolutely, he's off there to, you know, and he knew a couple of people from school that were there in the same um halls, but because COVID straight away kicked in, they weren't allowed to meet up with anyone. So he literally was thrust into a flat of I think eight of them and get on with it. So they they were making up games and doing bowling down the luckily they had a long inner hallway with all the road with all the rooms off it, so they were doing bowling, making bowling balls out of newspaper, and it was a creative time, it really was.

SPEAKER_01 42:40

Yeah, yeah. So yeah, but that's that's how um sort of I'm managing it, I think, in in my head is it it's it's an it's a celebration, it's um yeah, it's something to be yeah, I love that, I love that.

SPEAKER_02 42:57

So I think yeah, we're gonna leave it, listeners, on a really positive note. Because Claire, you mentioned obviously your diary is looking pretty busy, whether you filled it on purpose or whether these things are just happening, because sometimes things just do pop up. That now we've got a bit more time, ladies and gents. We can actually start saying yes to these things that we've been making excuses before. Oh, I can't I can't really do that because blah blah blah blah blah. No, the blah blah blah ain't there anymore. Yeah, the blah blah blah is off doing its own thing now. That that lift, you don't have to you don't have to go picking anyone up at midnight anymore.

SPEAKER_01 43:34

Yeah, exactly. Um I mean I I have a very full diary generally.

SPEAKER_02 43:40

But you are you are a very busy lady, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:43

But I think you know, having having things to look forward to and reaching out to people and in your network, your friends, your family who maybe you haven't had that as much time with and making plans with them. So with Sophia, I'll be saying, okay, so What are your plans? Or do you want to play it by ear? Let us know when you want to come back for a visit. Let us know when you want us to come and visit you. Or, you know, she's got a boyfriend. Um, so I know they've they've got their own plans for visiting each other, you know. But we're going to leave it for her because she doesn't know what she doesn't know yet. She doesn't know who she's going to meet, she doesn't know what it's going to be like. Um, so very much pressure off.

SPEAKER_02 44:25

Yeah. Because it's the whole thing now, you know, we are becoming one of their choices now. Do they want to and it's not a competition. That's that's one thing I really had to get my head around. You know, if they decide to do something else rather than see us, it's it's not, we really shouldn't think. Does that mean they love no, it doesn't. It just means that something rather exciting and sexy came up that was a slightly preferable choice to go in to see your old mum. But there'll be other options, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:54

Because but then with their foundation, with their constants, yeah, yeah, and there are so many new things, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:01

And I think now I'm very much of the thinking, way of thinking, mindset, whatever you want to call it. I actually say categorically to my boy, even if we've made a plan, and I'm not trying to get him into a flaky situation where he says he changes his mind at the last minute, it's not that at all. I always say to him, Look, I I'm looking forward to seeing you, we'll set a date a couple of weeks away. But, and I always say this because he's in London now and there's so much going on. I said, But if something fabulous comes up, if you suddenly get an opportunity to go to the theatre or to go to a rugby, do you know tell me we can rearrange because I do not want him missing out on something amazing, yeah, because he's like, Oh god, but I've told mum that I'll we'll find a way around it.

SPEAKER_01 45:48

Does does that sound absolutely agree because one of my biggest values is adventure? And I would never want my kids to miss out on an adventure out of a sense of obligation.

SPEAKER_02 46:03

That's it. I don't want to do it, and I'd hate, even worse, is afterwards if he told me, Oh, I had the opportunity, and I'd be like, What? Why did you not yeah?

SPEAKER_01 46:15

Yeah, that's a sliding doors moment, isn't it? They couldn't, you know, they could, oh well, I had the opportunity to to do this amazing thing or meet this amazing person, and I you know, I let the doors close because I was coming to see you.

SPEAKER_02 46:27

I'd be like, no. So there you go, folks. Those are our top tips. They will shift, they will evolve just like this whole wonderful journey revolve. But I think my my parting bit of advice is reach out, have conversations like this, and thank you, Claire, for joining me for this because we're gonna go into your three questions in a minute, but you've been blinking honest and open, and I think we don't have enough of that. We don't talk about it enough. So, listeners, however you're feeling about it, reach out, talk to people because there are people, you know, people do want to listen, they're probably feeling the same. Also, there are loads of little groups like on Facebook, etc. So have a look, you don't have to feel you don't have all reach out to Claire and me. All our contact details are in the show notes. You don't have to feel alone. That's the main thing, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 47:17

Yeah, yeah. And you know, post September the 5th. Um, I might have different feelings and a different viewpoint on all of this, so we might have to be busy the conversation.

SPEAKER_02 47:27

Well, I'm thinking, I don't know whether we've recorded this now, it might be worth doing our video podcast actually uh just after that weekend. Yeah, it's all there, and actually.

SPEAKER_01 47:37

The face will still be red and blotchy from what?

SPEAKER_02 47:39

Oh no, I'll be with you. I think we might do that. I think we'll do our video podcast a bit later. Into the next stage, into the next stage. Well, I think that's a natural flow, then, into your three questions that you know I ask each of my fabulous guests. So, Claire, I've got you here at last, and it's now your turn. So, drum roll, please. The first question is what is your midlife anthem? And is it the green light song?

SPEAKER_01 48:09

No, it's not. It is, and it's a song I've I've loved since I first ever heard it. Um, and it's sort of one of my go-to tunes. If I'm asked by organizers if I want walk-on music when I go on stage, I always have this. Um, I was actually very fortunate enough to be bought a studio session and I went and recorded my own version of this song. I'm not going to sing it to you now, but um it's quite a tough song to sing, to be fair. So when I did tell the studio my plan, they were like, Oh, really? But uh, I think I just went pulled it off. So it is four non blondes, what's up? So if you can think about it, what's going on?

unknown 48:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:52

I wake in the morning and I step outside and I take a deep breath and I get real high and I say to myself, What's going on? What's going on? Yeah, so it's that.

SPEAKER_02 49:02

That's what I'm a belter, and you are the first to choose that. I remember I had that on cassette tape, and I remember going to collect, meet an ex-boy. Well, he wasn't an ex-boyfriend at the time, he was my long-term boyfriend. Um, at Houston, can't remember, and I had it on repeat on my little war, it was Walkman cassette. I must have played it, and I just couldn't get enough of it. Absolutely loved it.

SPEAKER_01 49:26

Yeah, yeah. So, but the vocals are quite um challenging at points in it, but yeah. Um, but no, I just I just love it. I just and I think it stayed with me because yeah, most of the time I'm like, what's going on?

unknown 49:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:41

Oh, I like that. I like that. So does that link in with your midlife mantra at all?

SPEAKER_01 49:48

Well, my midlife mantra is um, you know, it it's the title of my own podcast, it's the thing I say to my clients, it's the thing I say.

SPEAKER_02 49:58

I didn't mention your podcast in the intro, I'm very sorry. Well, make sure we can get new contact details.

SPEAKER_01 50:03

Yeah, so so it it's my mantra is it's never too late. Yeah. And because you know, we get to a certain age, and so many people, uh, women around me going, Oh, I'd love to do that, but I'm too old, or I'd love to do that, but I'm too this or to that. And I'm like, uh age shouldn't be a barrier, especially when the other side of looking at our emptying nest, our uh, you know, uh children spreading their wings and going off and doing their own thing and having all their own adventures, is it does give us more time to go and do the things that we haven't done because we've been focusing on on them and and and everything else around us. So, you know, I call them lingering dreams that we often have. Oh, yeah. You had all these ideals when you were the ages that your kids who are leaving home now, when you were that age, you would have had all these ideals, you would have had all these dreams, these ambitions, these aspirations. Some you will have done, some will have changed along the way, others will still be lingering in the back of your mind, going, Oh, one day, one day. But if you look in any diary, there is never a date labelled one day. No, you have to decide to make it today. Absolutely. That's what it's it's never too late. Maybe not to create the exact version, you know. Probably at the age of 49, I'm not going to make it on a NASA program to Mars, unlikely. But there are other ways you can be involved in these things. There are other ways you can do these things. So there's always a way. Um, that's my other thing. I always say where there's a will, there's a way, and it's never too late.

SPEAKER_02 51:41

No. Oh, I'm I love both of those. Absolutely. It's about reimagining, isn't it? And it's about as you as you correctly said, that sounds a bit bit pompous, as you correctly said, things that we we always thought, oh, I wanted to do. No, we don't necessarily want to do that exact same thing, but there is a different way of looking at it, thinking, well, actually, I do quite fancy learning Italian, and I might actually go to Italy and spend some time learning it there. And I don't know why that keeps coming into my head. I've obviously got this.

SPEAKER_01 52:10

It's this Epre love journey, you know. Oh God, yeah. Yeah, I love oh my god, I love Italy. I love the Italian language. I did start learning it in my twenties. It's something to pick up again, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:22

Well you gotta make time in that diary. Oh, I love so will your autobiography title have an Italian twist to it?

SPEAKER_01 52:30

Uh well, not necessarily, no. So, my um a title I've come up with is because and this is my so an espresso martini is my signature cocktail, it's my absolute go-to. If you follow me on any and any you will see me an espresso martini will feature at some point. And so the title of my auto my autobiography that I've come up with is The Espresso Martini Made Me Do It. Shaken, stirred, and starting again.

SPEAKER_02 53:00

Yes, you should apply because they're doing bond auditions. Don't be Jane Bond. Espresso Martini.

SPEAKER_01 53:10

Yeah, and the starting again comes from the fact that I went through sort of my own midlife catalyst and reinvention at the age of 39. So that's where that comes from. So, yeah, shake and stirred and starting again. Let me have to get you back on to talk about that.

SPEAKER_02 53:27

More about your metamorphosis journey. But it's been wonderful. I'm so glad I at last I've got you on, and we're both wearing stripes as well, listeners. So uh there's we're obviously on the same page very much, right? Talking about pages, your contact details are on the show notes for our episode. You have your guest profile on the Midlife Unlimited podcast website. But could you please share with listeners how they can connect with you? Mention your podcast as well. I can't believe I forgot to mention that in the intro. Anything you've got coming up as well, over to me.

SPEAKER_01 53:58

So so yeah, the podcast is called It It's Never Too Late. You can find on all the usual places. You can contact me via my webs website, claire Robertsmulloy.com. That's all one word, Claire Roberts Malloy, no hyphen. And you can find me on Instagram at midlife.magic.maker or over on LinkedIn as well. LinkedIn's one of my favourite places to hang out, so you'll uh you'll always find me over there. In terms of what I've I got coming up, so by the time this goes out live, I'll already be deep into my speaker coaching programme, probably be coming to the end of my speaker incubator by that point. What have I got coming up over the summer is going to be a wonderful time, you know, with Sophia with my family, and also ruminating and um focusing on on the future plans. But then in October, I've got my Alive Live event. Um, and Alive stands for authentic leadership, impact, voice and empowerment, and it's sort of a framework that I've come up with to help women in midlife to feel more alive. So I always say it's for women who've got more to say, more to do, and more life to live. And that's what the framework um encompasses. And I'm holding an event where we um spend the day going through that framework and doing lots of wonderful and beautiful things.

SPEAKER_02 55:31

Whereabouts is that going to be?

SPEAKER_01 55:32

That's going to be in Wolverhampton on the 2nd of October. You can find details of that on my website. There are more details coming coming out um as well as I you know get all the content.

SPEAKER_02 55:46

I'll make sure that the show notes and your guest profiles are all up to date with the latest links because obviously by the wonders of technology, I can update links and all sorts, she says. Amazing. Oh, well, here's two espresso martinis all round. Well, not for me. I'll have a virgin. Can you get a virginist expresso martini? I need some coffee. Yeah, I love I do like coffee. That's about the only thing left I haven't given up. Uh so listeners, I'd love your feedback on today's episode because as you can probably tell, it's a subject very close to my heart, very close to Claire's heart. So we can't talk about it enough. So it'd be fabulous if you could leave a review. You can email or text me via the link in the show notes. Um, come and join the podcast Facebook group. Again, the link's in the show notes, where you'll find the website with details of how you can work with me one-to-one, or come and join more my award-winning all-in-one coaching programme that combines one-to-one with group coaching, what's not to love, and it'll help you get more life in your years. That's what it's all about. So, thank you for joining me, Claire. It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you for listening. I look forward to you tuning in next week because don't forget, Midlife Unlimited has a new episode every Thursday available wherever you listen to your podcasts. So, here's to being fabulous and flourishing together and living Midlife Unlimited. Thanks, Claire. It's been brilliant. Bye bye.