Divergent States
Divergent States cuts through psychedelic hype with grounded, curious conversations about what these substances actually do.
Hosted by 3L1T3, founder of r/Psychonaut, the world’s largest psychedelic harm-reduction community, and co-hosted by Bryan, a USMC veteran and advocate for psychedelic healing, the show brings together lived experience, science, and culture without losing its sense of humor.
This isn’t a spiritual podcast.
This isn’t a marketing platform.
No mysticism. No sales pitch. Just real conversations, harm reduction, and honest questions.
We explore how psychedelics shape mental health, creativity, and society, from underground use and peer-support communities to clinical trials, therapy rooms, and shifting public attitudes. Some episodes get serious. Some get weird. All of them are grounded in respect for the people actually taking these substances and living with the outcomes.
Guests include Rick Doblin, Reggie Watts, Leonard Pickard, Anne Wagner, Hamilton Morris, and Rick Strassman.
Divergent States is built on the same principles that made r/Psychonaut work at scale: curiosity without gullibility, openness without losing your footing, and safety without killing the joy.
If you’re looking for guru worship, this isn’t your show.
If you’re looking for thoughtful, funny, and grounded conversations about psychedelics and the lives they touch, welcome to Divergent States.
New episodes every two weeks.
Divergent States
Naked Out Loud: Machan Taylor on Memory, Music, and MDMA Therapy
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Machan Taylor has spent a lifetime using her voice. As a singer, songwriter, performer, and author of Naked Out Loud, she has worked with artists including Pink Floyd, Pat Benatar, George Benson, Hiroshima, Foreigner, and more. But this conversation is not about the glamorous parts of a music career.
It is about memory, trauma, identity, and the parts of ourselves we leave behind.
Machan joins 3L1T3 and Bryan for a grounded conversation about her memoir, her childhood in Japan, the grief of leaving her grandmother and first home behind, and the MDMA-assisted therapy session that helped her reconnect with the little girl she had carried inside for decades.
Together, they discuss what psychedelic therapy can reveal, why integration matters, how performance can become both protection and belonging, and what it means to stop being defined by an old wound without erasing the story that shaped you.
No hype. No miracle claims. Just a deeply human conversation about music, memory, healing, and the courage to be naked out loud.
Music by Sndbagz - Days Gone
Key Points:
- Machan Taylor discusses why she opened Naked Out Loud with MDMA-assisted therapy instead of her work with major artists.
- She describes the childhood trauma of leaving Japan, her grandmother, and her first sense of home behind.
- The conversation explores the whale image from her MDMA session as a guide back into memory and grief.
- Machan explains how MDMA therapy helped her emotionally understand pain she had only intellectually known before.
- The episode looks at trauma as an “operating system” that can quietly shape identity, belonging, and self-worth.
- Machan talks about the difference between changing the facts of a story and changing one’s relationship to those facts.
- The discussion emphasizes integration as the essential work after psychedelic-assisted therapy.
- Machan reflects on performance, applause, imposter syndrome, and the way music became both healing and protection.
- The Patreon section goes deeper into what actually happens inside a guided MDMA therapy session.
- The episode keeps a harm-reduction frame: psychedelic therapy can be powerful, but it is not casual, simple, or one-and-done.
Chapters
00:00 Cold Open: The Journey Back
01:42 Introducing Machon Taylor
05:28 From Pink Floyd to Personal Healing
07:19 Why Begin the Book with MDMA?
09:23 The Whale That Led Her Home
14:12 MDMA Therapy and Childhood Trauma
19:42 The Body Keeps the Score
22:09 Going Deeper Than Talk Therapy
27:06 The Meaning of the Whale
29:09 Speaking to the Child Left Behind
31:40 Your Story Without Being Defined by It
34:36 Trauma as an Operating System
40:31 Performing, Identity, and Belonging
43:13 Healing the Younger Self
46:25 Naked Out Loud and Human Vulnerability
49:02 It's Never Too Late to Heal
50:37 Where to Find Machon's Book
51:34 Patreon Preview & Zendo Project
54:39 Post-Interview Reflections
Download the app or text/call 62-FIRESIDE
Our listeners get 10% off the Zendo Project SIT Program with the code DIVERGENTS10
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Special Thanks to our Macrodosers, Super D and Mike, and our Thumbprint Tier member, Angie on Patreon!
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