Part 1: What Fearless Authenticity Really Looks Like (with Jeanne Sparrow)

Ready for a serious dose of inspiration? In this episode, Tracy sits down with Jeanne Sparrow—seven-time Emmy winner, powerhouse TV and radio host, and all-around amazing soul.

They dive into Jeanne’s new book Fearless Authenticity: Lead Better, Sell More, and Speak Sensationally, her incredible career journey, and the real stories behind the mic. Jeanne shares what it was like working with legends like Steve Harvey and Bernie Mac, how she found the courage to walk away from comfort zones, and the life lessons that helped her embrace her full, fearless self.

This conversation is packed with wisdom, laughter, and real talk about trusting yourself, following non-linear paths, and saying ‘yes’ to the life that’s calling you. Plus, Jeanne opens up about the impact of her late parents’ love and guidance—and how those roots still ground her today.

It’s soulful, it’s powerful, and it’s the reminder we all need: You don’t have to fit a mold to be extraordinary. 

00:00 Introduction to Jean Sparrow

02:06 A Personal Connection

04:39 Bookstore Nostalgia

07:02 Interview with Buck Brown

15:29 Comedy Legends and Lessons

28:22 The Journey to Writing a Book

32:14 The Book Proposal Journey

33:21 Finding Your Purpose

35:16 The Power of Saying Yes

36:56 Embracing Non-Linear Paths

43:01 Authenticity and Belonging

46:24 A Mother's Wisdom

55:33 Fearless Authenticity 

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Transcript

Part 1: What Fearless Authenticity Really Looks Like (with Jeanne Sparrow)

I am honored to welcome a true powerhouse and the world of media and communication. Jeanne Sparrow is a seven time Emmy winning television host, reporter, and radio personality with a career spanning over three decades.

She's co-hosted daily morning radio shows [00:01:00] alongside comedic legends such as Steve Harvey, George Wallace, Danny Bon Duche, Tom Joyner, and Doug Banks, and has interviewed Hollywood icons including Kevin Costner, Halle Berry, Jamie Fox, and Susan Sarandon. Jeanne is also a graduate faculty instructor at Northwestern University School of Communication, where she mentors the next generation of speakers and storytellers, and now she's taken her wisdom from the mic to the page with her new book.

Fearless, authenticity, lead better, sell More, and Speak. Sensationally, a powerful guide to showing up fully using your voice with purpose and owning your story. It's an absolute joy to welcome her to a beautiful fix. Jeanne, thank you for being here, Tracy. Thank you for having me. I'm writing that down from the mic to the page.

Yes. I gotta [00:02:00] use that. That is a beautiful turn of phrase, my dear. Thank you so much for that. That was a gift. Of course. Well, you are a gift, and I have to tell you, Jeanne, I feel like there's a little bit of an unfair advantage here because I feel like we're besties. I feel like I know you. I grew, I mean. I have been watching you and listening to you on the radio and tv, and now I have devoured your book, and I just, I just feel like I know you and we have so much in common.

When you talked about growing up in an orange themed home, I just started laughing because my childhood home, we had orange Shaq carpet, we had orange kitchen countertops. So, and then you mentioned little golden books. I was like, okay, come on. I don't know how we missed this, but we're, we're there. I love it.

I love it. Okay. A, it warms my heart to c all those little flags in your book, because I use them [00:03:00] too. These are my favorite. Hold on, let me find, they're, they sit right next to me in my desk because I have them wait. Oh, here they are. Okay, so this is, these are my favorites, these little tabs. Right here. Oh yes, because they're kind of hard.

If you can hear them, they're kind of hard. So I actually write things on the outsides of here, so I remember what, what I flagged it for. That's the part I'm missing because I get to the end and I'm, I try to color coordinate. I'm like, I don't remember what the green was. So that is, I never remember the colors.

I did the same thing, but this is, and I, and I, and I can't find these in a smaller thing, so sometimes I just cut 'em and then I'll just write like one word, something to like trigger a memory or something like that. And I, oh, it, it has made a world of difference. And sometimes when I'm feeling extra, uh, extra organizationally spicy, I do it in my journal too.

[00:04:00] Like to take me back to places that I wanna go, or like, if I write down something that somebody said that I wanna remember, a prayer that, you know, or a quote or something, I, I put it in there and then I just put the little, the little flag in there for it. Yeah. That is such a good idea. I, well, first of all, I love that I'm not the only one who nerds out who does this.

No. Okay. There's a whole group of us and I've been finding them like it's, it, I think, I don't know if it's a certain personality type, I don't know. I don't know what it is, but we are there and you are not alone. That's, you know. Um, so I'm just gonna, I'm a huge nerd. I was so sad when Amazon took away all of the bookstores.

I used to hang out in bookstores. Like that was my hangout. And then they kind of went away, but they just recently opened up one not far from me. And when I went there, my heart was so full, it was just filled with introverts kind of wandering around by themselves. Just [00:05:00] look, I just thought, oh my God, it's back.

It's back. The bookstores, they're back. I. Indie bookstores, um, have had a time, but I am grateful for the ones that that lasted and grateful. And that's part of the reason why on my, um, on my page where my book is, I make sure I have a bookshop.org link so that people can support independent bookstores.

It's like a, um, you know, almost a, um, a, I don't know if it's an association or how people belong to it, but you can find all the independent bookstores in your area if you'd like to support a small business. I don't know, um, how well they do the descriptions of being able to search by black owned or anything like that.

But it is a way for us to support, you know, people who love books. Yeah. Which is, you know, I love the de democratization of, of, of reading that Amazon has brought and other technology, I shouldn't even say Amazon, that technology has [00:06:00] brought, because I think eBooks have made, uh. Easier for people to access reading.

But there is something about picking up a physical book that feels so good. So I agree with you. I, um, there's a bookstore I've been seeing on Instagram that I wanna go, go to, and I hate that I was in Fort Lauderdale but didn't get a chance to go. It's called, I think, the old Florida bookstore. And it looks so magical.

It looks like something from Hogwarts or like some, like they, there's shelves all the way up to the ceiling and the ceilings look like they're eight, 10 feet tall. Oh, I think I've seen that post. I don't know. I didn't know there was in Florida. 'cause it looks magical. It looks like from a land far, far away.

I think I know what you're talking about. Jeanne, what was, what was the site again? You said book shop.org. bookshop.org? Yes. Okay. Okay. That's, yeah, that's where you find all the independent bookstores. Okay. [00:07:00] Well I will look into that and I'll even put that in the show notes. Um, well, so Jeanne, before we dive in to your book mm-hmm.

Um, I wanted to start with something personal. So I had the gift of meeting Jeanne, um, a couple of months ago, I think, at your fireside chat and your, your book signing. And it was wonderful. And you mentioned to me that you had actually interviewed my father and that you would share that story with me on the podcast.

I was wondering if we could start with that, but before you do that, for those that are listening, um, just a little bit of background. So my father, uh, excuse me. His name was Buck Brown and he was a famous cartoonist and illustrator and drew for magazines like Ebony and Jet, um, and worked for companies like Scott Forman, but his biggest client for sure was Playboy Magazine, where he was, um, uh, cartoonist for them for over 40 years.

And his most infamous character was a character by [00:08:00] the name of Granny who had the spirit of a 20-year-old and could, uh, make a, a construction worker cry over her taunting. So she was, she was awesome. But Jeanne, yes, I would love it if you would share the story about your interview with him. There's a couple of kind of overlapping things with your father that I realized after we saw each other at the event.

Um, so I was on a show on PBS, on the, it was on the PBS station that was part of the City college. It was called WYCC, and I did a show called Absolute Artistry, and I just, you know, interviewed different people and, uh, whether, and, and it depended on kind of what was going on. Sometimes it was just about a profile.

Sometimes it was about something that was coming to town, you know, like a, a, you know, a dance company or something like that. So, um, I interviewed your father, and I [00:09:00] could not find it in time for this, but he did a caricature drawing. It was in like, okay. Behind your house there was like a, his studio, right?

Like it was a like a little building behind. It was, it was actually in our home. His studio was in our home. It was okay. Yes. Mm-hmm. So did we enter through the back? Is that what it was? I can't remember how we came. It seemed like it was a separate space that we came into to shoot, but my memory girl, this was literally like, I, I get it.

25 years ago you came out to the house. You were out. Yeah. Oh, oh my God. Where was I? He had us, yeah, he had us in your studio. Okay. And he actually, I have a picture, I have a, a character drawing that he did of me and my, my cameraman. Oh my gosh. And he just talked about, you know, art being, you know, being an artist and talked about how Playboy, you know, kind of helped him, um, [00:10:00] you know, be able to do all of his other work, which I realized.

In the interview that I actually owned some prints that he had done because when I was working at WGCI, this was, so I was, I think I was still working at GCI at this time, but we used to do for Black History Month a uh, uh, an art calendar of, and it was almost all Chicago artists. We would do the calendar that would have the artwork in every month, and we would always have a reception where the artists would bring, you know, prints or sign prints, limited edition prints.

Of their work. And I have two of your father's, prince. I have the one with, um, the miracle worker. Yes. The woman walking down the street and, uh, 'cause don't we all want to be that miracle worker? Totally. And I have the one with the, [00:11:00] uh, go get me a switch. I can't remember what the name of it is. I don't know if that's the name of it.

That's, that's it. Go get me a switch. So, and when I literally tell you that was my childhood, like that woman could have been my grandmother, except my grandmother was much smaller. But that house, the house that she's sitting in on the porch, uh, looks like the house my grandmother grew up in, that my, her older sister actually lived in when I was a child and had added onto or whatever.

But that was what the front of the house looked like. And when I tell you that on that side of the family, the, the, the, the, the urge to you, the moment you did something, go get me a. I mean, and like we had to pick our own switch Yes. Off the f, off of a fig tree. Oh. And when I tell you that it spoke to me and when, and your father signed it to me and he reminded me of [00:12:00] that when.

Because I didn't realize when I had gotten those prints. And that was, that was some of the first artwork I had ever bought in my whole life. I was like, maybe 25, 26 when the, when we were doing those, and this was several years later and I didn't realize that the same person who did that also did those playboy things.

What? And so when the opportunity came up to interview him, I was like, oh, a brother who's an artist, yay. And I didn't make the connection, even though I had those prints framed in my house, that it was him and he had signed them, you know, in his typical, humorous way. Yes. And, uh, those are, those are packed away in storage right now.

'cause I sold my place a few months ago and I haven't pulled them out to redecorate. But when I tell you those, get the, the most interesting responses, because one of them I used to have in my, in my hall bathroom. And the, you'll get me a switch I had in my hall bathroom and the way people would come when they first [00:13:00] time had come to my house, they, and, and where it was, you couldn't avoid it.

Like it was above the towels by the sink. So if you sat on the commode and you looked to the right, that was what you were looking at. And I can't tell you the number of people at a dinner party would go to the bathroom, come back and completely change the conversation. 'cause they wanted to talk about that, that piece of art.

So that is my story about Buck Brown. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that warms my heart. It just sounds like my father drawing the characters of this, the whole thing. That's, that is beautiful. And yes. Your relationship with your father, uh, you had me in tears in, in the book just reading about how close you were with your father, what he meant to you.

Your whole family just really shaped you. I, I, in fact, last night I saw a thing on social media that you posted. I should have wrote it down. You called it s spo, spo spam spross Spross. So, so my [00:14:00] dad, my dad of course, last name, Sparrow. And you know, the tendency of, of especially old black men to call each other by their last names Yes.

Is universal. But my dad had a friend that he worked at with, who could not say Sparrow to save his life. Like, I don't know if he had a speech impediment, I don't know what it was, but every time he said my daddy's name, it would come out Spro, not Sparrow. Spro. Okay. That became my dad's nickname to the point where that's what all of my cousins called my dad.

You know, if you know the, the guy, the boy cousins would be like Unc sometimes, you know, um, sometimes Uncle Allen, but almost always Pro West. Pro at West Pro. And my dad always used to have. Sayings. And so we called them Spro iss because he would repeat them and, and he would say it in response to something that was happening in the moment and just let it sit there for us to figure it [00:15:00] out.

And we would be like, and one, and then one time you go, oh, that's what he meant. Ugh. I love it. I, yeah, my father, we would call him Bism. So it's very, very, he, he had sayings for everything. He did not refer to anything in the way it was meant to be. He would, instead of saying, I'm gonna take a nap, I'm gonna go repair my body.

I mean, just nothing was, you know. So I love that. Well, Jeanne, one thing that I'm curious about, I swear we're gonna get into the book, but you as, as I mentioned in the intro, you've worked with some of the greats, I mean Steve Harvey, Cedric, and the, the Kings of Comedy in general. What was it like working with like George Wallace and what, can you share a little bit about that?

So, um, wow. I was surrounded by greatness and didn't even realize it. 'cause when you're in your twenties Yeah, you don't have a sense of [00:16:00] what it is. And two, at that time, black comedy was still very much ours. Like the Kings of Comedy did Elevate dl, Cedric, Steve, and Bernie to a different stratosphere 'cause of how that film captured, I think audience's imaginations.

But this was a time when, you know, all jokes aside Yes. Was in the South Loop and you know, these comedians, even though they were top billing comedians at the time, they weren't doing arenas. They were doing clubs and they, or they may have been doing smaller venues and things like that. And so, because I, I feel like comedy in general was more club-based then regardless of, of where it was.

'cause that was the time when Zanies and the Improv had several different locations in Chicago. And in addition to that, you know, all jokes aside and the, and, and, you know, other clubs that [00:17:00] had that were specialties. Right. And what, what it was like for me. Looking back on it, I cannot say I had this awareness when I was in it, but I felt like the little sister who was always kind of there poking at 'em, prodding at 'em, asking him questions.

But you know, I was learning while I was doing and they were teaching while they were doing because we learn, I think, best by being shown things and be, and seeing that something is possible. Right. I think I always wonder when, um, I talk to people about the things that they love. If they had, if they had known that that was something they could make money at, would and, and had been exposed to, just seeing somebody who looked like them doing it when they were younger, would it have been something they [00:18:00] pursued as a career?

You know, when you talk about pe you know, like I, you know, you meet people traveling and you're like, oh, why do you like doing this? Oh, I've always loved the water and, and stuff. But, you know, and then you meet people who make their livings on the water. But yes. You know, if you didn't see that growing up, how would you know about it?

And, you know, and I think the same thing comes from comedy. Um, even though I am not a comedian and would never try that, um, I learned a lot about how to use comedy. How to use humor. Humor. I think that's probably a better way of putting it to use humor, um, in my work, uh, in how I relate to other people.

Because it was also how I grew up. Like, so I saw similarities in those men that I saw, I growing up with my dad, and because they approached it with such discipline, you know, like all of them, I. Prepared in different ways, but I got to see how they got to their, their [00:19:00] comedy and how hard it was. Like, I remember Steve, you know, talking about one time, 'cause he used to do a top 10 and he was like, do y'all know how hard this, and he had many expletives to go with it.

This is, he was like, Letterman got a whole goddamn staff to do this, you know, I'm doing this. And he would be sitting there with a thing just every day. And then he would bounce stuff off of us or whatever. George walks around with a, with a legal pad everywhere he goes. Um, the same way you see Dion. Cole, like Dion, when you see him, he makes a bit out of it.

But Dion has been doing that since he was, uh, when, because we're around the same age. And I, you know, I was in clubs, you know, seeing him and, and his contemporaries perform or what have you. He would have a little notebook and he would be like this. To see how that joke went or whatever. And he still does it as a bit in his specials.

I can, and [00:20:00] so I feel like, I feel like when you see somebody who works at their craft, it makes you work at yours in a different way. So I think that's what it was like for me. It was like going to school for performance without realizing that's what I was doing. 'cause, 'cause a lot of times you can do things by the seat of your pants.

Mm-hmm. And that's not, there's nothing wrong with that, but to turn it into a career, I think you have to, you have to treat it like a craft, like a skill that you continually hone. I, I agree. And I don't think people realize how much of a skill in a craft being a comedian is. I mean, they make it look so easy and effortless, but they have tried those jokes out and tweaked them and studied people and the timing and the whole thing.

It's, well, it's, it's amazing. And what a wonderful opportunity you had to work. Um, and I, I dunno if it was in your book or someplace else that I [00:21:00] read that you were sitting in for, um, one of the hosts, I dunno if it was Steve Harvey and Bernie Mack, I think was going to be, and he said, no, which seat? You know, he, he made you move seats into like the primary seat.

He was like, you are running this. I thought that was a wonderful gesture. Bernie was one of. If not the, well, no. Yeah. I, I would, I would count Bernie and George as two of the people, like while they all contributed, uh, to where I am now and helped me in different ways. Bernie and George are two of the most generous performers I've ever met in my entire life.

Bernie would say, like, I, and I think Bernie was like this in, in the way he ran his business, in the way he, um, worked is when he saw something that he liked or that was good, he would encourage it. [00:22:00] You know, he used to have this night, uh, at this club called Mil Renes, and it was in the basement of a building that had a few studios in it on, um, was it St.

Clair, uh, or Fairbanks? I think it was on Fairbanks. Um, it was right across from where that double tree is. It's like down the street from Northwestern, but it was in an older building that has since been torn down, but it was in the basement of that building. And Milton near was a jazz musician from Chicago, I think it was.

He and his brother, um, you know, would gig around, but people would come there and, and play and stuff. Uh, after they did gigs at the Jazz Showcase and, and stuff like that. And Bernie on, was it Monday or Tuesday night? I think it might've been a Monday night. He would have a night there. And he, it was like a variety show.

He had the Mac Men, his band, he had the [00:23:00] Macaronis, his dancers. Um, and it was this tenancy little place. It was, I don't even know if you could fit. Legitimately 50, 60 people in there. It was like the little bitty tables. And it was a time, um, I saw Phyllis Hyman perform there, like she had been. And it was, and it was not long before she died.

It was like she had performed a show here or something. And so like, the same way that jazz musicians would go there to jam, you know, with Milt and his brothers, 'cause they would always have like a little setup in the corner and you would just, you know, people who had been gigging, they would come there late night 'cause it was like a four o'clock license so you could stay there all night basically.

And, um, so, but the same thing would happen with other artists. Like if they were in town and had been in town that weekend, they would stay and come and play with, uh, at Bernie's and, and he would do a little comedy, do stuff. One night Bernie was gonna be traveling, um, and he was like, okay, it is, yo you, you know, you've been here a few times.

You [00:24:00] go host. And I was like. I What? Huh? I was scared out of my mind. He was like, you better go get your ass up on that stage. Jeez. Um, you know, he was like, you're gonna be hosting shows and doing stuff or whatever. You need to learn how to do it, so go get up on there and do it. Did you do it? Of course I did.

Who? You, who you go. You, you. Would you be the one to have Bernie Mac now? No, I would not. I would cry, but I would get up on that stage. Right, exactly. Exactly. And so did, did you host the whole show or just like a, that whole night? That whole night. I was on that stage. And listen, I kept, and, and it was funny because the, the, the mackman was light.

I knew them from hanging out at clubs and things like that. It was, uh, God, what was his name? Was it Reginald was the band leader. But you know, they would come up and they had their whole thing. And so I would just plug in and bring people up and do stuff. It's not like I had to do jokes or anything, had just had to do, you know, what a host does?

And you [00:25:00] figure it out as the night goes on. They were like, here's the, like, Chuck was like, here's the lineup. This is who you gotta introduce next. This is what you gotta do. And I was just like, I would much rather be in the audience drinking than doing this. But after a while, you kind of figure it out and, but you don't learn unless you do.

And so I think when, you know, and that was one thing that George was really big on. Um, like he would, he would say stuff to me, I think, just to see how I would respond. And he does it to me, to this day. I'll get a crazy text from George and it would be like something, it would, and, and I don't even realize it's a joke and I'll just be like.

That's a, you know, and I'll say something to it, he was like, good. That made it better. You know? And it's, it, he showed me what, talk to people to understand how they're thinking, what makes them laugh, what keeps them engaged, and that sort of thing. But, you know, people who let [00:26:00] you shine or encourage you to shine, um, in your own way, realizing that it amplifies what they're doing.

That's what they taught me, Steve, too. Like, you know, Steve, Steve taught me more practical stuff too, you know, just like mechanics of things. Like how, how, how something is constructed. You know, like he was a stickler about that, about form. Um, and, you know, even, even personally, like he, he asked me one time, he was like, uh, what you doing with your money?

Spending it, paying my bills. He was like, call these people, these people will help you out with your money. And I was like, George, I mean, I was like, Steve, I don't have enough money for that. He was like, yep, this is exactly the time to go, go talk to them. And I've, I've been with the same financial planner since then.

Really? Yep. What I love about that is it's [00:27:00] somebody seeing in you what maybe you don't see. At the time when Bernie said, get up on that stage, he knew you could do it. He knew you could do it. Um, or die trying. Right? Exactly. Right. And you have to, you have to just get in there, you know, you have to. Um, which brings us to your, your book, this, that takes fearless authenticity.

Quick little side note before we dive into the next part. If you're in that space where you know something needs to shift, but you're not sure just where to start, I created something for you that just might help. It's a handful of the tiniest micro shifts that helped me go from completely burned out to actually feeling like myself again.

They're simple, but they're sneaky, powerful. And honestly, the fourth one ended up [00:28:00] being the biggest catalyst for me once I finally embraced it. If you want it, it's totally free. Just head to a beautiful fix.com. Click on the your free gift tab, or find the link right in the show notes.

Alright. Back to the good stuff. So Gina, I'm curious, was there a moment that you realized you had this book in you? Like what, what was, what led you to to write this? Girl, like so many things, it was a circuitous route. Um, so I know I did not know I had that book in me at all. I, um, when you and me this morning, the last TV show I hosted got canceled.

Um, I had always wanted to start a business of some sort, and I thought it was gonna be like a media training business and you know, that sort of thing. But then people started [00:29:00] calling me and people had always asked me to come and speak and, you know, ask me, you know, wanting, always wanting to pick my brain.

My brain's been picked so many times. I'm sure it has opened it. Um, but I ended up getting, um, a business coach because I realized fairly quickly into my entrepreneurial journey that I did not know what I was doing. I knew enough to get me in trouble. Yeah. And I met, I was introduced to this woman and she, you know, just started.

Asking me about my business and about different things. And she was like, have you ever considered speaking as part of your thing? And I was like, I speak all the time. Like, of course I have. She was like, no, no, no, no, no. Speaking, you know, in cor at corporate events and thing. I was like, yeah, only famous people do that.

And she, she looked at me, she was like, really? You're gonna have to have this conversation. She was like, again, so like, she's the one who's told, you know, who introduced me to the, there's this [00:30:00] whole world of, you know, events and things where people have speakers. I was like, you mean tell me I've been doing this shit for free?

She was like, broadcasters often have that experience because you do it for, you know, like nonprofits and things like that. So, um, but what she told me was she was, when I started explaining to her how I worked with my clients. 'cause at that point I had already had several clients and I was doing some speaking at, at different events, but I, I didn't.

I wasn't treating that part like a business. I was treating it as lead generation basically. And so she was just like, you've put together a system. She was like, you should write that down. It shouldn't just stay in your head. I was like, no, but I adapted to do. She was like, you're doing the same thing. She was like, when you're explaining it to me, I hear a system.

Even if you don't call it that, that's what it is. She was like, and I think writing a book will help you see it that way, and that will also help you with [00:31:00] speaking and with your business. I. And so I was like, yeah, yeah, no lady. Um, you, you, you know, you, you, you're incorrect. Like I literally have hired this woman to, at this point, like at that point we had, you know, before that we were just, you know, networking and things.

And then at this point I'd hired, I was like, nah, you're wrong lady. And she says, okay, okay, okay. She was like, do just do me a favor. She was like, just humor me. Write down, I want you to write down like all these stories. 'cause she was like, every time we talk, you have a story. So she was like, write down all these stories.

Don't have to write down the whole story, just write down the titles of things that have happened to you, significant things, things that have made you laugh, whatever. Wrote this whole document full of titles of story. And then she said, okay. She was like, oh, this. She was like, oh, tell me this one, you know, and whatever.

And then at the end of it, the homework she gave me was to write an outline for what I teach people. She was like, you know, pretend it's a book, but I want you to [00:32:00] write down what you know. So I wrote it down and um, then she was like, she, I, I gave her, she said, now bring both documents next time we meet up.

'cause this is when people were still meeting in person. So I brought both of the documents. She looked at them side by side. She was like, this is your book. And I was like, dammit, she got you. She got you good. She got me, she got me. And I was, she was like, it's already here. You may as well write it. She was like, but before you write it, she was like, you know, you need to, then she introduced me to the whole world of, you know, publishing and stuff.

She was like, you need to write a proposal. That's your business. You know your business plan for your book. And she was like, depending on how you decide you wanna publish it. I was like, who's saying I'm actually gonna publish a book now still. And she was just like, just humor me. She was like, if it's there, she was like, then that's something you can give.

She was like, even if only you only write something that you give to your [00:33:00] clients. Like a white paper that you give to your clients as preparatory material. She was like, at least you'll have that. When I tell you this woman tricked me into every step of the way. Her name is Sarah Victory, and I, I'll be forever.

Yeah. What a wonderful name Is that, is that really her name? Her last name? That is really her name. Okay. Well, wow. So if, if, you know, like, but here's, here's the theme though, and I think you see this in the book, that even when you are being true to who you are, you don't necessarily have to go looking for your purpose.

'cause your purpose finds you Yes. What you're supposed to do will surface. Right? Even if you have to be convinced of it. Um, if it wasn't for me, I wouldn't, because she was, she even asked me, she was like, how long did it take you to put this together? I was like, girl, I did. You know, she was like, exactly my point.

She was like, it was in your head and sometimes you need to get your ideas out of your head. She was like, you're so used to talking through [00:34:00] all your ideas that you know, because even though writing is a part of our job in television and to a certain degree in radio a little bit, if you just jot down your ideas or whatever it is, the expression of it, that's more important for us.

So we don't value, like we toss our scripts in the trash when we're done with them. Right. You know, it might be saved somewhere, you know, it's on, it's on, it's definitely on video somewhere, but that's what we value. So she was like, I need you to shift it. And she and I already love books. Yes. I didn't think I was a writer, even though she was like, you write every day of your life.

Are you kidding me? I was like, oh, but that's just short form. She was like, what is a book? But a whole bunch of short form thing put together. So sometimes it's about a mind shift, a mindset shift that other people help you see. But regardless of what it, of what it is, if it's not in you, it's not coming out of you.

[00:35:00] Mm-hmm. You've had some wonderful guides in your life. This is the second story of someone looking at you and seeing something in you and kind of pulling it out of you. I think all of us have that. Yes. I think all of us get those gifts. We don't always listen and we don't always say yes, and you say yes.

I say yes until it's a hard no. Hmm. That's the advice I used to give my interns all the time. You know? How do you know it? So you don't, you don't know it's the right opportunity. You say yes until it's a no. And sometimes that gets you into some, some jams or some interesting situations, and you get yourself out of it and you learn something, you learn.

I don't wanna go down that road. That road is not for me. But if you don't say yes, you're shutting off the possibility of anything happening. You know? That's why in improv, it's yes and yes. You always build on whatever [00:36:00] the person said before you agree to what's happening. There's, uh, there's another method of it I just read about called Plusing, where you add something to something like someone says this and, and you add to it.

You add onto it what you have to offer. But it's the same, it's the same concept. Yes. And will get you so far. Absolutely. Get you so far. Um, but if you say no, you can't create from a negative. You just can't. It's not possible. So if you're not saying yes, what are you saying? What do you know? If you're not saying yes, what are you saying no to?

You don't even know, you know, until you've experienced and, and are able to say, this is not for me. And I've done that as well, but yes, until it's a hard no. Mm. I love, I just had this conversation with one of my sons yesterday. I was saying, life is not linear. It's not you. [00:37:00] Something doesn't show up on your doorstep with a nice bow saying, this is that thing you've been waiting for.

A lot of times it's a conversation, it's exploring something, it's going on an adventure. It's maybe saying yes to something that does end up in a mess, but you realize or you get something from it. You've gotta get out there and do the thing. You just have to live life. You have to explore. I love that you said the word, it's non-linear because I think that the way we're educated, the way that we organize things.

Is often linear, right? And at least chronological, right? Mm-hmm. You think about how we learn history, you think about yes and yes, there are foundations we need to learn to build on. You know, you can't do algebra unless you know, basic math. You can't do calculus unless you know algebra. You know, you can't do, uh, trigonometry left unless you've had geometry.

There is a progression of things, but[00:38:00] 

the linear piece, I think makes us judge ourselves when we take tangents. Yes. Um, and we see those detours and we judge those detours as something that's not productive. And especially if you're in creative, uh, endeavors. And I would even venture to suggest that most cre most endeavors are creative on some level.

Absolutely right that no matter what you do, there is some level of creativity you need to bring to it. To be able to innovate, to be able to, to, to change and shift with adapting needs. And I think that, that as, as technology advances and as our world, uh, changes, uh, it, it appears on a dime every minute.

That creativity has to be accessible for you, for you to stay, for you to even just be treading water, much less get, go, move forward. So I'm glad that, that you shared that with your son because I think a lot of times we, [00:39:00] you have to get unstuck out of a linear mindset that I do this first, then I do that, then I do this.

That's the way it's supposed to go. And you know, there's, there's a fable about, um, how, how God sends you blessings, right? Mm-hmm. That it never comes exactly the way, you know, you think it will like that man. I think it's a man on a raft asking God to save him. And, you know, you send the, you know, you send the, the, the para, you know, the, uh, the Coast Guard and be like, no, no, no.

God's gonna save me. You send, you know the Marines? No, no, no. God's gonna save me. And then he dies. And the God is like, fam, I tried, okay. I sent you all this, I sent you the thing you asked for. Yes. But we get stuck in our head of what that solution is going to be so much that we just don't. Think that the answer is sitting right in front of us when it often is.

Yes. And it doesn't always look the way [00:40:00] you think it is. For instance, I was also mentioning if you ask for courage, God is gonna send you the thing you fear the most. He's gonna, for me, it's a spider. I mean, he's gonna send something that you, that's going to, you have to garner up that courage. So it's not always because girl, don't ask for patience.

'cause God will keep you waiting. Yeah. Amen. Amen. Exactly. I have, well, I remember, I can't remember if it was my grandmother or one. My auntie don't ever pray for patience. So ever pray for patience because, 'cause God will make you wait. He'll make you wait. He will make you wait because that's how you learn patience.

That's how you learn. Yes. Well, Gina, I wanna dig into this book. Okay. Yeah, I gotta put the glasses on 'cause I need to read a, a little bit. I see. Oh, I love those spectacles. Yes ma'am. Thank you. Um, okay. You had me from the intro. I was like, this is, this is getting silly. Like I'm not even an, I rarely even read intros, but I was like, I'm gonna read this intro.

And I started [00:41:00] highlight, I was like, okay, this is gonna be an expensive tabbed journey, but I wanted to share this. So you, you wrote, many of us have lost sight of the people. We are meant to be in a functional way, and in the process we abandon our true selves. So we end up changing something about ourselves or pretending to be somebody we're not just to fit in.

The more we make choices like that, the less happy and fulfilled we are as we go on in life. Only to wake up one day and wonder, wonder how we got here. So. I almost threw the book because I too throw things when they're true. Jane, you, you all, you get this agre. It's like I, 'cause I walked away from a 25 plus year career, wonderful career I talk about in some of my earlier [00:42:00] episodes.

Um, that looked great on paper. It had nothing to do with the career, the people, any of it. It was wonderful. It was me, which is even harder to realize. Um, but I couldn't, I couldn't explain. To people why I felt the way I felt. I didn't understand why the way, but when I read your words, I think it just, it summarized it.

I had been pretending for so long and showing up to work as someone I thought I needed to be. They weren't asking me to pretend, they weren't asking me to be anything but myself, but I felt like in order to be in this role, I need to show up in this way. And it was exhausting for me to keep it up, but also you do get to the point that you're so far removed from your authentic self.

You no longer even recognize. I literally would look myself in the mirror. I'm like, I don't even recognize this person, you know, anymore. So I just thought those words were just, were powerful. Thank [00:43:00] you. Thank you. It, it's interesting because I think we're taught to do that from such a young age, right? Mm.

You know, even though like, and I think I write this, I, this is one of the first things I write. You know, our mothers all tell us, you know, just be yourself. You'll find your people, you'll find your friends. You know, on the first day of school, that's the same thing. Maybe your father said it, you know, some auntie, grandmother, somebody who took care of you, said that to you before you went to school.

Yes. But somehow we don't believe it. And without instructions, we don't know how to do it. Because, you know, there is a lot of literature on, on human beings and belonging. Belonging is what we're here for. You know, in a lot of ways, connection, human connection is what we're here for. And so I think that that's the reason why we tend to do it at first, right, is because we doubt [00:44:00] ourselves.

But what we want is the belonging. So we'll do anything to get it and or to feel it. Whatever that is. And there's no easy way to it. Right. You know, anybody who's been in any kind of relationship knows the challenges of it, whether it's family, romantic, or friendship. Relationships are hard. You know, there are hard elements to it.

There are parts of it that are joyful and fun, but you belong to other people, right. And you choose. I don't think we realize how much we choose to belong to other people. Mm-hmm. But sometimes the choices we make are the ones that are not true to us, and we belong to ourselves first. And that's the only way that belonging is gonna be durable.

Right. Because I think all of us have been in toxic relationships and perhaps been the toxic person. [00:45:00] And realize that we needed to fix ourselves or fix something or get back in alignment. Maybe fix isn't the right word. Get back in alignment with ourselves because we were looking externally for something that should be happening internally.

And if, if you've ever had a relationship that has survived one of those things, you know how special it's, um, and I just, I feel like our work. Can take us out of ourselves because there are expectations and we don't necessarily take the time to see how we can meet those expectations while staying true to ourselves.

Or how those itty bitty decisions that are compromises of, Ooh, I shouldn't, uh, that every little decision we make, like that makes it easier to make the next one that takes us further away to the point where we don't even get that, ooh, feeling anymore. Right? It's just a general malaise of, uh, how [00:46:00] did I get here?

But it's, it's those little bitty choices that we know are not right. The minute we make them, if we don't correct it, it ends up putting us someplace that we have to have a map to find our way back. But. Perhaps that is part of the journey too. Mm, yeah. I've embraced that part of it. I'm, I never say to anybody that any choice you make is wrong.

Because like my mother wrote me, I told somebody this story recently, I don't think I mentioned it in the book, but when I was 21, when I turned 21, my mother wrote me this beautiful, beautiful letter. Um, and I still have it. And she was gone six years later. So it was, it was one of those things that. You know, it's kind of one of those once in a lifetime moments that you don't realize is once in a lifetime you realize it's special in the moment you, but you don't realize how special it is.

You know, like I still have something in my mother's [00:47:00] handwriting that Yes, you know, expresses some beautiful things. But in this, in this letter, she said to me, you know, she shared with me her hopes for me for the future, you know, 'cause I was about to graduate from college. Like I was, it was, so, yeah, it was Jan the January, so it was in winter quarter before I'm about to graduate from college.

And so she was just talking about all the things she was looking forward to for me in my life and how proud she was of me and, and all those things. And one of the things she said in there, which I thought took, especially now that I am the age she was, or, or a little bit older than she was when she wrote that letter, she said in it.

That she knew she had made mistakes in raising me. Like she was like, there's things I probably didn't need to do, um, and probably some things I should have done more of. Uh, and she was like, for that, if, [00:48:00] if, you know, I, I'm sure that there are things that I've done that if hurt you. And for all of that, I apologized.

She was like, I also want you to know at the same time, I would never take back anything I've done because of, of the person that you've become. And I don't know what things I would've taken away that would still lead to who you are now. And she was like, I hope that you do. You realize you see your life the same way as you go through that you're gonna make mistakes.

You're gonna hurt the people you love and you can always make it right. You may not be able to take it back though. Just understand that if you've done it with love. That it will be worth it and there will be things you will regret, and you're just gonna have to live with that. And so there's so much wisdom.

Yeah. In that letter that I could not appreciate at 21, but every now and then I pull it out and read [00:49:00] it and go, yeah girl you had, yep. You ain't never lied. You know what a beautiful gift. Wow. That's priceless. You. Priceless. Even if I didn't have that letter physically, the fact that my mother said all of that to me at 21, for me to think back on it.

Year after year? Yes. After year birthday. After birthday or, you know, because she gave it to me on my birthday. It's one of those things, like there was a time after she died that I read it every year on my birthday after she died, just because it was, that was such a difficult time, you know, losing a parent in your twenties is it's, I, it's nothing I would wish on anybody.

Um, but again, that's my journey. Yes. And I don't get here without [00:50:00] having made some bad choices there. Absolutely. And what you're, you're saying is making me think of, um, I was on a panel earlier this week or late last week, and there was a woman on there and I can't remember her name. I, her first name I think was Simbi and she shared a story, I think it's a Buddhist philosophy about the lotus flower.

And I'm probably gonna box this, but I just. Recorded in my last episode, the Lotus Flower. It only grows in murky, swampy, muddy ponds, um, bodies of water. And it's, its job is to purify, but literally the mud fuels its growth. And that's kind of what you were saying, what your mom was saying to you is those icky times, those mistakes, that's your mud and it fuels your growth.

It turns you into who you are today. So it's, yes, she was, she was spot on. Those, those moments can be just as important if not more than, [00:51:00] you know, the great moments. Mm-hmm. And, and or the right choices. Yes. And so that's why, you know, in my book, I don't, you know, while I would like all of us to make the choices that are good for us.

I also realized that even if you don't make the choice, that's good for you as long as you get back. You know, like you can't change that 25 years that, that you did. But you had, as you said yourself, a beautiful career that you loved, that you poured a lot into that. I'm sure you wouldn't change some of the outcomes that that came from that.

Right? So even if you were doing something that wasn't in alignment with, with who you were at on one level, on another level, you did create something to be proud of. So, and it got you to where you are right now. Absolutely. So is it, you [00:52:00] know, so I don't ever want anybody to ever judge what they've done.

Right, based on this book. But I do want people to think about the fact that, because, you know, I've, I've had conversations, especially, you know, once you get to middle age, your conversations start to change, right? Mm-hmm. And I had a friend who, who said, a colleague of mine who said, yeah, I don't know what my purpose is anymore.

You know, her kids are pretty much outta the house, like they're in college now. So she was like, yeah, you know, they come to me for advice every now and again or what have you. And she was just like, I, I'm, you know, I love my husband, I love my life, but I don't know what, is this, what my purpose is? And I was like, do you really need to know what your purpose is?

You know? And she was like, I would like to know that what I'm doing in life is having an impact. And I had this conversation prior to finishing the book. And that's when I realized, I was like, that's really what this is about. It's [00:53:00] about living in purpose. Living with purpose. 'cause you don't need to know like, why I'm here.

In fact, I don't. I think it's kind of like the not knowing what help is coming your way and what it's gonna look like. Because I think, you know, God buries things in layers for us to discover. Like it's a puzzle. You gotta kind of figure it out. You gotta get your hands in the mud and you know, get things, get let things get messy, to put them back together again.

Or to figure out where the gold is. You, we always gotta dig for the good stuff. So I think that's on purpose, but I also think there is this weird conundrum of when you, you know, when you mind your own business yourself or whatever, then it's gonna find you like, you know, people talk a lot about manifestation and, and, and hacks for manifestation and tricks for it.

Never realizing. Or at least the people listening, never realizing that we manifest what our reality is every [00:54:00] single day. Yes. Like what we believe is what happens the way, like we, and I think we see this in, you know, in the world today, people are creating the reality that they have based on what they believe.

Right? Yes. You, you people say, oh, you gotta check your sources. Never realizing that they're only checking one source themselves. Yes. Why? 'cause it's the one that affirms what they already believe. It's the thing that catches their attention. And the only other thing that's gonna catch their attention is the exact opposite of that.

For them to reject without consideration. And that's how I feel about purpose. Like it's a slippery little eel, slipper little sucker. You know, all of those things, like realizing that we are creating it every day. It's gonna find us. We might not like it when we need it based on the choices that we make, but we are definitely here for [00:55:00] something and it's up to us to do that thing until we can't anymore.

Mm. Love it. Yes. We are creating, whether we believe it or not, we are, you know, you look around at your life and it shows you what you're focused on and what your thoughts are. And um, and sometimes that's very hard to accept. It is, of course, yes. What? Yes. But it's also very powerful because once you realize, oh, I'm doing this, then that means that you can also change it and you can shape it.

So, but, so Jeanne, what, what does fearless authenticity mean to you? And, and if, if you could answer that and talk a little bit about your mantra. Um, be brave, be free, be you like. What, what's behind those words? So fearless authenticity to me has two parts. The fearless part, the authentic part. The authenticity part [00:56:00] is my belief that who we are is the gift we have to share.

And it is the place we find our success, right? That no matter what we do, how, how we do it, and how we choose to do it, and how we infuse it with who we are, what our experiences are, that's what makes that unique. Even if 50 11 other people do that same exact thing, yep, the way we do it is going to be different than the next person.

And that's where we find our sliver of success in this life, however we choose to define it, um, I call it fearless because it takes courage. To choose to do things your way because you are going to find a point where you're going to have to defend it, where you're going to have to draw the line in the sand where you're going to have to say, trust me on this.

This is the way I'm gonna do it. This is the way it's gotta happen. Um, and sometimes you may choose not to do it your way and do it [00:57:00] somebody else's way and realize that doesn't work for you, and then you have another choice to make. Am I going to keep trying other people's ways of doing it? And sometimes you have to do that to get to where you are.

No bad choices, as long as it gets you back to something that isn't alignment with yourself. And that's the reason why I say be brave, be free, be you, because it does take courage to do that. So you gotta be brave every day. You have to make brave choices. You also have to be free because you have to be free to let things happen, right?

And it takes a certain amount of freedom to be able to choose. The path that may not be as commonly chosen, right. To strike out on your own and then being you is the essence of what authenticity is to me. You know, we come into this world a certain way. I have a lot of friends who are in early childhood development who will tell you who we are as human beings, is pretty [00:58:00] much set in stone.

By the time we're like two or three, I shouldn't say set in stone, but pretty much established by the time we're like two, three years old, we have some elasticity and plasticity in our brains and in our, you know, our ability to learn like that, our imprinting and all of that, but our personalities and our who we are as humans.

That's the reason why early childhood is so important, right? Because it helps us become that human being, right? That we were, we were placed here with, with the, the talents, the gifts, and all the things that we came here with, that is in us. I've been talking since I was nine months old. According to my mother, I've not stopped.

It's the only thing I know how to do. I mean, no full sentences, having full conversations. She was like, it was weird. She was like, she was like, they were simple sentences. She was like, but you understood everything. She, I've been ear hustling since I was a kid. Ear hustling baby. I was, [00:59:00] she said I would be sitting like when she was with like, I'm in everybody else.

Baby is in their little carrier while whatever they used to carry back in the day or sitting on the laps quiet and stuff like that. And I'm sitting there like this, looking at the people who are talking. She was like, and here's the thing. I have terrible eyesight from birth. Like I can't really see that well.

And she said, you, she said, when I realized you needed glasses later, she was like, you were really paying attention to the voices. 'cause you were sitting there on my lap,

nosy. Dossy. One of the first lessons my mother taught me was not to repeat what I heard, because one time I repeated something she said to one of her friends in church and she was like, I'm gonna need you never to do that again. And she never talked to Ms. Bessie on the phone with me in the room again, because they were talking about somebody who, she was like, they was talking about somebody who had [01:00:00] side children in the church congregation.

Oh. And they and, and my mama said something about, well, the Bible, they called that a concubine. And then it came up in a, in a Bible study lesson. And I was like, mama, is that what you,

that's just reporting though. That's reporting. I was gonna say, Jane, you were just doing what you're called to do. I was doing my job. I was just doing my job. I was just doing my job. I just had to learn what time and place it was appropriate. Right, ma'am. And my mama would be like, mm.

There were times when I'm sure she wanted to tear me a new one and she would, she couldn't. 'cause it was funny.

And I have stayed true. I have stayed true. Sometimes you can't help yourself, but, so that's what fearless authenticity means to me. That's what be brave, be free, be you reminds me of all the time, is that [01:01:00] when we make the brave choices that feel freeing to us, that leads us to being who we are. That's what being who we are is there is a freedom that we can find in any box we are put in if we are able to figure out how to be us inside that box.