Part 2: What Fearless Authenticity Really Looks Like (with Jeanne Sparrow)

In Part 2 of this soulful conversation, seven-time Emmy winner and beloved Chicago host Jeanne Sparrow gets real about imposter syndrome, perfectionism, and what fearless authenticity actually looks like.

We talk about the tiny choices that pull us off course—and the braver ones that bring us back home. Jeanne shares powerful stories on navigating pivots, showing up as your full self, and why vulnerability is a leadership superpower.

If you’ve been craving permission to exhale, this one’s for you.

00:00 Introduction and Recap

00:54 Jean Sparrow on Fearless Authenticity

01:57 The Importance of Personal Impact

06:57 Navigating Imposter Syndrome

11:01 Perfectionism and Its Pitfalls

19:01 The Power of Vulnerability in Leadership

25:26 Setting Boundaries and Avoiding Burnout

29:44 Recognizing When to Recharge

29:53 Foundations for Success: Live It, Tell It, Sell It

30:56 The Power of Storytelling

31:33 Understanding Your Audience

33:29 The Essence of Sales as Service

35:52 The Art of Pivoting in Midlife

39:24 Speed Round: Fun and Favorites

51:31 Conclusion and Book Promotion

Want more Jeanne? Grab your copy of Fearless Authenticity and explore all the ways to connect with her at fearlessauthenticity.com/book. From audiobooks to signed copies, she’s got you covered.

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Transcript

Part 2: What Fearless Authenticity Really Looks Like (with Jeanne Sparrow)

[00:00:00] 

If this is your first time tuning into my conversation with Jeanne Sparrow, you might wanna pause and go catch part one first. It sets the stage for everything we're about to dive into, and honestly, Jeanne is just too good to miss. But if you're already caught up, let's keep going.

In this part of our convo, we're getting into the messy middle imposter syndrome, perfectionism, pivoting in midlife, and what it really means to take the mask off and show up as yourself. Let's drop back in.

So Jean, for someone who's listening, thinking she's Jean Sparrow, [00:01:00] she's won seven Emmys, she's hosted. All of these shows. Of course she has fearless authenticity. But me, I had to, I had to fight for it too. I had to fight for it too. Um,

I think because of what I've done, it looks exceptional, right? Because I'm in a career that few people are in, in a city that, you know, has a certain amount of notoriety. Um, but I'm not as famous as the people that I've worked with. You know, I, I've, I've, I've been able to learn from them the same way any of us can learn from them.

I've just been close enough to see it, be shown it, and, and have conversations about it, but. Every single person can make an [00:02:00] impact where they are. Every single person can amplify what they are doing, amplifying their impact, amplify, amplifying their own voice. That's what I've done my whole life, right?

Like literally everything I've done on a radio, everything I've done on television is to tell other people's stories to, you know, take a phone call and, and do something. All of us can do that. It's just because I have these 50,000 watt megaphones, these broadcasting access to these broadcasting tools that get it out to a lot of people.

But you can do that every day wherever you live. I'll tell you a little story. It's true. No matter what it is you do. I think you would agree that there's probably thousands upon hundreds of thousands of CPAs in the world, correct? Correct. Lots of people who do taxes, lots of people who help people manage their books and things like that.

I had one. That I didn't care for very much, not because I disliked [00:03:00] the person, but it was, I was starting my business and I didn't understand what I was being told because it was being communicated above my head and I was getting frustrat and, and, and I realized, I was like, oh, this isn't the right CPA for me.

I was introduced to another person who specializes in working with new, you know, first time entrepreneurs and she was also a woman who was an entrepreneur herself. I. The way she explained to me the things I, I, you know, she helped me understand how to read my, you know, p and l statements, how to make decisions that are sound, financial decisions for my business because she was able to relate to me as a woman who had never, like, who was completely capable of balancing her checkbook, paying her own taxes and things like that.

But when it came to the things that I needed to do for my business, I didn't have any, [00:04:00] you know, frame of reference for that. And she taught me to do that. She told, she shared her own story to me and she shared with me from her perspective that she knew, I shared that's how she was true to herself in a moment that helped me.

That's how she's able every day to do that for the people she serves. And here's the thing, the CPA, that didn't work out for me. He had done some things that did work out. Really, he helped me set up my business in a way, because when I went to the next cp, she was like, oh, this is great. This is this and this and this and this.

So he was the one to help me do that. She was the one to help me do this the way he did stuff. And, and you know what? And now I could probably have those conversations with him. Yes. Right. Because that was his special sauce. That was what he did. It was work. It worked for him. [00:05:00] And the people who were at that level, I wasn't there yet, and he couldn't get me to that level.

She could. So that's how him using his expertise mm-hmm. Serves the people that it's right for him. And that's how her using hers. And it's at a job that you could argue is commoditized. Right. Exactly. That you could go to an HR block or a, you know, what's the, uh, Jackson Hewitt or, you know, any number of CPAs or accountants or tax preparation places to get that same work done.

But even commodities mm-hmm. Have people, my daddy always told me, spend your money with people you like. Mm-hmm. The like, part of it is what I'm talking about is the thing that connects us. So being yourself, bringing your [00:06:00] experiences to your work, whatever that work is, whether it's work you get paid for or work you do because you love it.

'cause a lot of us have many different work. That we work, types of work that we include in our lives. Sometimes you're just working to be able to afford the lifestyle you have and you do the things you just love. Like people who sing but have never sung professionally, but they in that choir killing it every Sunday.

Yes. They go to karaoke and killing it. They're taking voice lessons. 'cause it makes them happy. They're, you know. Yes. Um, people who will never be professional athletes, but run that marathon every year for their favorite charity. Mm. Those are the choices. I mean, when I say be fearless, to make those choices, be authentic.

Be bring yourself to the things you do because it will make a difference to somebody who is on the other side of that. Mm, yeah. That's that authenticity piece. So, um, from a fearless [00:07:00] standpoint, you also mentioned in your book The Voice, the Voice telling you, you know, who am I to write this book? Um, do you have any.

Anything that you would share on? How do you overcome that voice, girl? Um, sometimes I think that voice is necessary. Mm. For you. Because you know that which isn't questioned is often taken for granted. Oh. So sometimes you need to be challenged on something. The problem is, is when you listen to it. Yes.

Right? Yes. If, because if it's because you know how, you know how we always, everybody has that friend or that kid. Like there's always a kid. If you've been a teacher, you got that kid in the class. But why? Why Miss Farrow? Why? Yeah. And so, you know, any parent knows it, but why? That's that same voice, you know?

Are you really [00:08:00] qualified for this? Yes. Damnit. I am. Okay. I'm working on it. Oh, okay. Cool. I think, you know, 'cause like imposter syndrome is some, like, they just did a survey that, you know, at one point in time, I guess maybe 10 years ago or something like that, I might be getting it wrong. Um, 60% of American executives said that some point in time they doubted why they got hired for the position they were in.

Sure. Now it's like a hundred percent. Wow. You know, ju Justin Bieber just talked about like mm-hmm. Doubts in his own ability and that that young man has a beautiful voice. Yes. His personal choices have been whatever, but that boy could s say yes. Okay. And no doubt about it. He's even looked at himself like, how did I get here?

Sure. And I. It's probably more even more common than we realize that we've, but we, but because we look at people based on external [00:09:00] stuff, we don't think they ever doubt things. Everybody doubts stuff. Is this the right decision? Think about how many times in a day you question what you've done. Mm. Or you question what you're about to do.

Yes. Um, I think you have to examine things to know that they're, you know, worth it. But you also have to realize when that's not your voice. Asking you that. That's like some kind of external, I don't know, quality control or something. I don't know. But it wasn't that, I don't think it's meant for us to listen to, to do what it's saying.

No, no. It's just asking you, who are you to write this book? You know what? Damn it. I'm James. Ll like, thank you for asking. Now have a seat. Exactly. Yes. Now what other questions you got? Yes. You gonna help me write this book, right? Whatcha gonna do? Like, is that, is that what you're here for? Like I think conversation that has to happen because what do you do [00:10:00] when when your child asks you, well, why mama, baby?

Oh, figure it out together. Mm. Or baby, this is my experience. I'm not sure why, but this is what I believe and you're teaching 'em what you value and you're teaching 'em how to make that decision for themselves.

I love it. Well, yeah, I, I've named my voice, Mr. No, I think I've mentioned that before in my podcast, Mr. No, 'cause that's his job. I mean, it's right there in his name. He's there to tell me, no, let's play small. Let's be safe. And no, but once you realize that's not you, you know, it's easier to, to override that, that voice.

Talking about that voice, um, you talk about perfectionism in, in the book a little bit and.

I don't know if you have thoughts on why you feel so many of us battle this, this, this need to feel like we have to be perfect, do things perfectly. It's, it's soul crushing. I wish I knew, I wish I knew, um, because I've had it myself. Um, my dad used to say, especially toward the end of his life when he, because my dad, for those who don't know, has had dementia and he had frontal temporal lobe dementia, which affected his speech center.

So he had primary progressive aphasia, which means is the same thing that Bruce, Bruce Willis, uh, the same type of dementia Bruce Willis has. So you lose the facility for language and you end up repeating the same words over and over again. But my [00:12:00] dad used to say, good enough, good enough. And he said that even when I was a kid, but like toward the end of his life, like.

How, how was that daddy? Good enough? Hmm. I think we don't say that enough. Enough because I think somehow, and, and I also had, now that I'm in a position of teaching young people, most of my students are right outta undergrad in their first year of their job maybe, or looking for an internship, you know, so they're in that 23 to 28 range, most of them, some of them are older.

At one point in time I did teach more adult learners, um, who are returning to school after a bigger gap. But this is what the, the program I'm teaching in, um, mainly has at this point. And what I have learned from them is that, um, our educational [00:13:00] system teaches high achievers that getting the A is the important thing.

And so I think. Perfectionism gets baked into the way we teach our young people the way they learn. And so it's an embedded lesson that might not be intended, but I've had to have conversations with them. I was like, okay, when you're in a graduate program, your grade really doesn't matter. Like as long as you reach a certain threshold, do you have like, it's called a master degree because you're supposed to get mastery of this topic, so you're to get mastery of something.

Like especially if you think about the old school apprentice math model. You learn underneath a master, you make mistakes, you go back, you correct it, you bring it back to the master who says, and I'm not talking about, you know, just somebody who has mastery. Mm-hmm. You bring it back to that [00:14:00] person like, ugh, okay.

The craftsmanship isn't what it should be. That's not perfection. As much as it is about creating quality. And I think we've equated that as the same thing the way our educational system is set up now. Because what I realized when I was first teaching these young people, when, when the demographic shifted to that age group post pandemic, I realized I couldn't teach them the same way I could teach somebody who had been working in their job for 10 years, somebody in their thirties, you know, or mm-hmm.

Or beyond, because they had already achieved a certain mastery and had a certain confidence. Whereas I can't expect somebody who has been doing work for grades for, for their entire educational career to all of a sudden shift and say, I don't care about the grade anymore. I care about Right. Tackling the, the, the topic and possibly failing in front of my colleagues.

And lemme tell you something, there is [00:15:00] nothing more nerve wracking to get up in front of an audience of your peers. Strangers, completely easy. I could stand up in front of the, I've been on the stage at the United Center introducing people and not felt a way other than excited. I've gotten in front of a room of a hundred.

I was just at a speaker's conference of last week. I was nervous as hell, getting in front of other people who speak for a living, to tell a story I've told a million times. I can get on the radio and do stuff. I know my listeners, I know what I'm doing. But when you're around your peers, the risk of failure is much higher because this is a group that you treasure.

The reason why people have so much, there's an anthropologist who has a wonderful TED talk on why we have such a fear of public speaking and it's because ingroup of ingroup outgroup consequences. When we [00:16:00] were, you know, in our caves hunting for, you know, brono sos burgers, if we were, if we were kicked out of the group, we died.

That was death. That was death. Yes. Right. Nowadays we don't have the same sort of risk except the feeling of embarrassment in front of our peers and being kicked out of a group we want to belong to. And it's funny 'cause that's how we started this conversation about belonging. Yes, yes. And so it's like when you stand up in front of people.

That you respect, that you consider to be the group you are in. The last thing you want is to get kicked out of that group. And embarrassment makes you feel like your life is at stake with that. And our brains actually believe that. And so I realized as an instructor, as a lecturer, as somebody who was sharing what I knew with these young people, I had to help them make that shift.

[00:17:00] Like, because it's not gonna happen on its own perfectionism, I think is kind of beat into us. Mm-hmm. And especially if you've achieved a certain level of, you know, accolades, you know, gotten good grades, done what you were supposed to do, you keep doing it because it's reinforcing that behavior. So, but what that, what that looks like in the real world is very different and it can stymie you because in the real world it's much more about.

Being able to work with your team, being able to get results together, being able to do what my dad said good enough, because sometimes you need to get it to the client at a particular time, and you don't have time to make it perfect. You have time to make it good enough and good enough on time will beat perfection every time.

Every time. Ooh, you said so much and that that was, there were so many. First of all, [00:18:00] you are an amazing professor and teacher to have that conversation with your students to allow them to say. Get messy. Learn the mastery by learning and doing and, and making mistakes. You know? 'cause I think it starts from there.

Someone in your position has to tell them, not only is it okay, but I'm encouraging you to put that down for a second. And the other thing is what you were saying about peers. I, I could not stop shaking my head. I agree completely. But can we just agree that when we see someone who's standing before us or who's doing the thing and they make a mistake, that there's something beautiful in that moment, there's something that so endearing that, that is almost sometimes more powerful than the perfection of the speech that you just saw.

When they can just do that thing, catch themselves, laugh at it, move on, have that moment of vulnerability, that sometimes is most the most impactful thing. [00:19:00] That's the reason why I encourage leaders. That's the reason why I use for fearless authenticity in my leadership development workshops and, and training sessions and things.

Because when you choose to do that, to be fearless and authentic, which includes making those mistakes and, and, and moving on, you actually give permission to other people to do the same. Yes. And when you are vulnerable as a leader in a certain way, you are giving your team the opportunity to, to be vulnerable and to let you know when stuff is about to go left.

Because a lot of times, managers don't know what's going on because their team is afraid to admit that something is going on until it's already a shit show. Mm-hmm. Right. How many times in your career have you had a team that did not work well together because they were so afraid? [00:20:00] Of saying the thing.

And, and I would even suggest that nowadays, especially when we talk about how AI is going to affect how we do our work, and, and I'm not saying it's going to replace things I'm saying I see it as a tool. I know a lot of people don't agree with me, and it's okay. We will see. That's right. But at the end of the day, if everybody's got this mask on, this mask of perfection, this mask of whatever, and as one of my colleagues that I talked this through with last week, said, he was just like, I got on my mask.

You got on your mask. I know that you, I know that you know that I have on my mask and you know that I know that you have on the mask. Why aren't we taking it down? Because do that when we take that mask down, the chance of somebody really seeing us is there. That's a risk, but it also gives us an opportunity to innovate.

'cause when we're being [00:21:00] real and the mask comes down, then we're able to talk about the problem in an honest way. And the way we see this problem or this challenge from our perspective, which may be different than the way you see it, and between the two of us, our perspectives may spark the very answer we've been fighting to do.

But we've been in these little masked silos where we're not talking about, we're like, we're gonna go away, we're gonna do our thing. Bring back something perfect. Right? Right. You really think that's how this got created. You really think that's how this got created. Right? You really think that's how this got created?

It didn't. It took somebody saying, now granted, I use this as a water bottle, but it is for wine. You really think that somebody saw, somebody saw a water bottle and was like, you know what? I wish I had one of those for wine. So I could take it to a picnic and it would stay cold.[00:22:00] 

But it took somebody admitting that they wanted to take a whole bottle of wine to a picnic. To the picnic. Right. Oh, and, and Jean, when you, when you said picnic, it made me think of the analogy in your book about people taking a picnic on your lawn, showing up on your lawn with all their stuff, and I just thought that was wonderful.

Can you talk about that a little bit? Oh, gosh. Um, I, I think, I think about it in terms of hospitality, right? You invite people to your life, but you invite them for a particular thing, and you make people comfortable, but then they get so comfortable that they've decided to take up space, and you give people this space, like, you know, it's, it's like letting somebody in your head and you hear that voice, but if that voice isn't.

In alignment with you, then all you're doing is listening to somebody. They're taking up real estate [00:23:00] that isn't theirs. They're taking, like people, if you, you give them an inch, they'll take, you know, they'll take a foot. You give 'em a foot, they'll give, they'll take a mile. Yes. So you have to be really careful about who you let in and how you let them in.

Because people will take up residence and you've given them permission to, you've gi Yes. You've invited them to set up a whole buffet. Not not a buffet. That's what my dad used to, that buffet set up a whole buffet yard and they eating and you keep putting things in the chafing dishes. Why, why are you that?

Because that's what that, that's where that perfection monster gets big. Yes. Because you keep feeding it with more perfection. So it's gonna keep requiring more of it from you. Yes. Anything. It can proliferate and then they start having babies.

[00:24:00] And because there's always an offshoot of it, right? Perfection goes with procrastination. Perfection has a baby. Yes. With with fear and creates procrastination. Oh my gosh. And in that, and then that baby has a whole play set yard. So your front yard is full of, full of perfectionism. Your backyard's full of procrastination and there's a cloud of fear over in what you invited all of that stuff to your house.

Quick little side note before we dive into the next part. If you're in that space where you know something needs to shift, but you're not sure just where to start, I created something for you that just might help. It's a handful of the tiniest micro shifts that helped me go from completely burned out to actually feeling like myself again.

They're simple, but they're sneaky, powerful. [00:25:00] And honestly, the fourth one ended up being the biggest catalyst for me once I finally embraced it. If you want it, it's totally free. Just head to a beautiful fix.com. Click on the your free gift tab, or find the link right in the show notes.

Alright. Back to the good stuff.

And I think again, it goes back once again to your need to belong. You, you, you say yes to everybody 'cause you don't wanna hurt. And I, you mentioned burnout in the book and I wanted to talk about that a little bit. 'cause I think that's huge for people. That's what happened with me and my career. And one of the ways to, I think, to start to move back to you is starting to say no.

Starting to put those boundaries up, those those, and, and, and not feeling guilt because people, you will look up and there's a lot of people on your lawn picnicking telling you, here's what I need you to do and here's what I need from you. And it's, it can be too [00:26:00] much. Girl. I told one of my friends, don't ever let nobody get let know you have free time because they will fill it for you.

The minute people find out you don't have a job, they think you got all the time in the world for them. Yeah. And next thing you know, you'll be running everybody else's life and don't have time for the things that you stop working for. Trust me, when I tell you fences make good neighbors for a reason. Oh, that's what boundaries are for.

I'm not saying you can't be a good neighbor. I'm not saying you can't be a good friend. You absolutely can't. The only you know, and I say this in the book, you cannot pour from an empty cup. You cannot, if you are not filling your cup first. If you are not solid in your foundation, everything you pour out of that cup is going to set, set off something else in you.

And we as women have a bad habit of doing that because that's how we're raised, especially women of a certain age. I think, you know, elder, millennials, [00:27:00] gen X on up and depending on how you grew up, maybe even younger, because I think traditionally the way our world is set up is that way. So, and I'm not saying that what you choose to do is incorrect if, if you are able to give, have at it.

But if you are at the edge of your capacity and you are constantly filling everybody else's cup, eventually your cup will run dry. Yes. And, and you can't get any of that back. Not that you should want to, if you, my mother said, give with a cheerful heart. Giving with a cheerful heart comes from having a full cup to begin with.

And yes, and I would add to it recently I heard that your cup should actually be overflowing. You should fill your cup up so much [00:28:00] that it's overflowing and then that excess overflow is what then you can give to other people. Yes. Yes. So that's, and actually when you overfill your cup, the abundance of it just splashes out for other people and people just get it.

Yes. It's a different way of thinking about it. Because I know for me, when I was working, the one thing I could cross off my to-do list was me doctor's appointment. Nope. Working out. Nope. And I felt like I was winning because, oh, I just look, my list is a lot shorter. Well, no, because I liken it to these amazing iPhones.

They're amazing. You have to charge them in. I charge them, you know, for, for them to do. I would never let it run down and then be like, well, why aren't you? You have to, you have to recharge yourself. And when I have the panic, you have. Yes. When you realize it says low power mode, you're like, okay, conserve energy.

Yes. Yes. You get home. Let me order that Uber now before it [00:29:00] dies. This was me last night. I saw 10% was like, the hell did I do the hell did I do to myself? That's the scariest panic, anxiety ridden moment. Yes. You're like this, lemme just leave the tip before my phone dies. Right. Ordered the, ordered the ordered it.

Remember, remember the, uh, memorize the, uh, first couple letters of the license plate, so I'm getting the right card. The name Moham. Right. How you doing? I already pressed the tip, got in the car, phone died. Whew. Woo. The relief. The relief. The relief. You heard me? Yes. The relief. Yes. But you immediately stopped and took care of that phone.

You realize, okay. It's not playing. It's the same with us. We need to recognize when we're running our battery down as well. Um, well Jean, the last part that I wanted to talk to you about was, and this is probably the framework that, [00:30:00] um, your coach told you to write down. Is it the whole live it, tell it, sell it, tell it, sell it.

Mm-hmm. Okay. Can you can walk us through that a little bit? Okay. So the, the process, the process of it, live it, tell it, sell it, live. It is about you. Um, and I call these my foundations for success because Ibel, I, even though I apply them to communicating and constructing how we connect with other people over ideas, it can apply to anything.

So live it is about you making sure that you have yourself, um, prepared and or, and aware of how you impact other people. So it's about your nonverbal body language. It's about, um, how you carry yourself. It's about how you are aware of how things affect you and what you need to do to be able to show up in a way.

Tell it is about is the method by which we [00:31:00] connect with each other. We connect with each other as humans through stories. It is easier to get an idea across through a story, an analogy, and, and a story doesn't necessarily have to be a chronological story. It can be a, this is where we are, here's how we got here.

It can be process oriented. It can be a lot of things, but it's anything that puts information into context. So it's creating meaning. That's what we do when we tell stories. We create meaning. And when we create meaning, we also create connection. Context creates connection, and then sell. It is about the person you are interacting with, talking to, leading, speaking to, uh, telling a story to whatever it is.

They're your audience. Everybody has an audience. People often don't treat people like they're the audience, whether it's just one person or thousands or millions. You have. An audience you're speaking to, and you should know three things about them, who they are, why they care, or why they should care about what you're talking about and how can you serve them.[00:32:00] 

Service is a big part of how I see all work. When work is done in service of others, then it has, it has a, a, a purpose. It has a, it's a fulfillment. It's a fulfillment. It is using what you have, who you are, your gifts, your talents, your live it, how you live in it, how you're transmuting that value. 'cause that's another part of it.

It's about under understanding that you bring value. Everywhere you go and knowing what that value is and knowing that you can stand on that and then transferring that value to somebody else because that's when it actually means something and it's a fulfillment of our purpose and also a fulfillment of what they need.

Um, so that's how I see the framework of, of how, how it started off with how we communicate. But then I realized because communication is part of so [00:33:00] many things, it's about how we move through this world, how we get things done. So whether that's leading, whether that's communicating, whether that's getting work done, um, whether that's, you know, you know, trying to get a team organized, whatever the case is, however it is that we're transferring our value to somebody else, that's the process by which you can express it and do it.

Hmm. I love that. And I think you also mentioned that. Sometimes we don't think of ourselves as selling. I'm not in sales, I'm not selling anything. But I think you explained that we all are at all times in all conversations and percent, even if it's just what we're gonna have for dinner, right? Right. Baby, we got ground beef.

I really want some spaghetti. But if you want meat loaf, I would be willing to make that you've given choices. 'cause you know you got ground beef, tomato [00:34:00] sauce, right. Some green peppers, some onions and some garlic powder and some ries and things. You know what you can make, but you gotta convince the people that this is what they want to eat.

That's right. You're selling it. So, I mean, but it is, and I think when we shift our perspective to selling. Somebody on something, we are actually trying to give them something. They want a service. It's a service. Mm-hmm. Sales as service. Mm-hmm. Right. Um, I think too often sales has gotten a bad rap. Yes. But in essence, that's what it is.

It's, I mean, cu it's, you know, customer service is what they used to call, you know, what is it they call it now? I can't remember. Customer satisfaction, customer, whatever. But it's, it's customer service. Yes. What it is, it's service. Yes. You're serving the [00:35:00] customer. Come on.

It's the same thing. And I think we make things so complicated sometimes, but we do. That's, that, that's what it is. Like at the end of the day. We have something we have to offer other people, we have to know what that is. We have to know the ways in which that it, it serves other people and sometimes we have to convince them of it.

And if they're not buying, then move on to the next. But understanding how people connect to each other and how we can be of service to each other, I think is how we all move forward. When we all shift to that mindset, then it becomes about how can I use my gifts to make this a better place? And everybody has the same perspective,

I hope. Thank you. Yeah. Well, gee, I feel like I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you to talk just a little bit about pivoting. Is if there, I know that there are a lot of women that are listening [00:36:00] that are considering pivoting in their careers. You walked away from, I think a full-time tv. Role in Chicago. And you mentioned I was invited, I was invited to find more success elsewhere, yes.

Oh, okay. Okay. To pursue, uh, what did, what do they always say? Pursue your pet or pursue other, pursue, pursue my success elsewhere? Yes. Okay, okay. Okay. All right. That's how I choose to see it. I was, I was politely invited to see the door. Uh, I was, I was politely invited to find my success elsewhere. And did, and did, and it worked out again.

It, it was in your best interest. And you mentioned Bella Gandhi's story as well. I think she, yes. She had a pivot from corporate to, to love coach. So could you talk a little bit about what that's like, especially midlife? I don't, you know, I don't know if midlife is almost, it seems like it might be the magic sauce or the magic time in life to consider these types of things.

Some people may think of it in the reverse, but [00:37:00] what are your thoughts on all of that pivoting? So, uh, it's weird because I, you know, somebody told me one time, you always reinvent yourself. I was like, no, I'm just doing the same thing with different packaging. You, you think it's a reinvention? I don't, I don't see a lot of difference.

I just see myself as applying what I know to something new, to a new problem, to a new challenge, to a new thing. I think the power of a pivot is giving you a fresh perspective on how you can. Use what, you know, transfer your value in a new way. That's really what it comes down. What did I learn here? What do I know here?

What did I bring to this? And then how can I bring it here? And, and just paying attention to where those opportunities are popping up, paying attention. 'cause like, that's the, in the story you rec, you, you mentioned about Bella, that's really what it [00:38:00] was. It's like how, how did she see what she did that she loved in one place and thought she excelled in?

And how could that parlay itself into a business for her? Because she was using things she had always done in a corporate sense. And when you see how she was able to turn that value into value in a very different venue, she was able to go back to it and make it a business, a viable business. Um, so I think that's, that's how I would see it is knowing your value, building on that and being open to seeing how it applies and how you've actually used it.

Because I think a lot of times we don't examine where we've been. Right? Yes. We've always been good at x and then when you start to pay attention, you see X popping up in every little thing. There are people who are connectors, right? They don't get paid to be connectors, but that is the reason why they got the job they got.

Yes. And the reason why they keep it right. [00:39:00] They've just found a way to be connectors in that position. Our friend Rob is a great example of that. Totally. And my husband. My husband is the biggest connector. Mm-hmm. That's all he does naturally. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. And I'm so grateful to Rob for connecting us.

Um mm-hmm. Me too. Jean, I'm gonna move on to the final speed round. Oh, speed. Which is never speed. It's the slowest speed round you've ever seen, but um, it's just meant to be fun. No overthinking. Just whatever comes to your mind. What makes you come alive? Mm. Talking to other people and the beach and the mountains.

Oof. Together. Like I only have specific places where Hawaii is one of them. California's another one. I keep looking for places that have beaches and mountains and mountains together. [00:40:00] Totally. We were in, um, California last summer and I literally started tearing up. At one point we were driving kind of in the central part of California and we went through the mountain.

We were just by the beach, and then we drove a little bit further. We were into the mountains and I was so overwhelmed by its beauty being from the, the Midwest and just everything's, you know, flat here. It was just, ugh, it was, nature was showing off. Favorite song? Oh girl.

That's impossible. It is to answer. It's, it's, it really is impossible. Impossible to answer. I mean, because what genre like it Totally Girl. You asking somebody who's been in radio their whole life, that's what their favorite song is. That's fam like, I,

I'm holding you down. I'm forcing you to just force rank it.[00:41:00] 

This is gonna sound weird, the Beethoven's fifth Symphony. Oh,

totally, totally. But then it has almost like a hip hop vibe after that. Yes. Um, it is one of the first pieces of music I heard my mother play and also play like, play on the piano and then play, um, on a record that made me feel something. It's a powerful piece of music. See, I'm telling you, we are the same.

I love classical music. Yes, yes. Yeah. Have you seen John Baptiste reimagine classical music and put blues, like, ugh. 'cause that's how I feel about Moonlight Sonata, that piece. I don't know what it is. It just makes me feel that's another pretty one's, another pretty one. Also, the, if I'm gonna [00:42:00] give a, if, if I'm gonna stay in that genre and give a, a backup, the Aria and Carmen.

Oh, okay. I'm gonna have to write this one down. Look it up. It's beautiful. Oh, yes.

You just wanna get your cast. Totally, totally. Girl, listen. And it's got a vibe. It's got a vibe. You can dance to it. Yes. Like you can't tell me they wasn't juing in, in the, in the 17 hundreds. You can't tell me. See, and I, I can just see Dorothy Dandridge and Heli Harry Belafonte and Mm. Love that. You almost got me saying it, but you are not See what people don't know.

What they don't see is, before this I ask people to do a virtual dance party and you all did not see Jade and Sparrow dancing to She's a Bad Ma Ma jamma. That was because I'm a Bad Ma Maja. Right. Okay. Favorite book [00:43:00] besides Fearless Authenticity? Favorite book? Mm.

I'm going to,

oh, this is so hard. If you just asked me favorite author, it'd been so much easier. All right. Who's your favorite? Who's your favorite author? I, I have two favorite authors. Octavia Butler and, um, Walter Mosley. Oh, science Fiction and Mystery. I know it's completely unhinged. Um,

oh God. And there's so many books that have impacted me along the way. Um, but yeah, I would have to say, oh, 'cause it's series like they both write, wrote in series, write in series. [00:44:00] 'cause Walter Mosley's still putting books out, like I love his, um, easy Rollins Series Devil in a Blue Dress. Mm-hmm. All of those.

But just the arc of that whole journey and the way he crafts is just beautiful. It's Chef's Kiss. Mm. Um, Octavia Butler's Pattern Master series. Um. It imagines basically a world in a not too distant future from where we are now. And she, her, she's, she's basically the foundation of, at Afro Fu futurism, like seeing ourselves in the future.

And, um, a lot of the things she saw coming are happening now. And it's why, like, if you read Par, the Parable of the Sower, a Parable of the Talents, I'm scared to go back and read 'em right now. People are rereading them now and freaking out.

Pattern Master is, was was her first series and it, it [00:45:00] envisioned, um, it just, I like people who look at how the world could be Mm. And. See it and create something different. Walter Mosley does something similar, except he's talking about the past. But seeing how we could navigate that in a way that was powerful for us at a time when we didn't have much power.

I'm gonna have to, I'm gonna have to check those out. Yeah. Octavia Butler. I feel like I have, was she part of Oprah's? Did Oprah do some kind of, I don't remember. Okay. I don't remember. I don't know. She's amazing though. Favorite movie? Ooh, God. What is the name of it? There is a movie that I really like, oh [00:46:00] God, I can't think of the name of it.

Uh, it's about a kid who loses his mom and this tree. Comes and Liam Meson plays the tree. Let me see if I can find the name of it. Girl, it's wild. Hold up. Oh, it's so beautiful. Liam. Liam Meson.

Come on. Papa Tree movie. Let's see how Google does today. Yes, here we go. It is called A Monster Calls. A Monster Calls. I've never heard of that. Yes, it's about this little boy whose mother is sick and um, and he has to go live with his grandmother and his father's parents aren't together anymore. It's just about this thing, but it's such a beautiful metaphor.

My [00:47:00] therapist actually turned me onto it, and there's layers to that story. It's beautiful. Wow. Okay. I will, I will check that out as well. Um, favorite quote or affirmation? Ooh. All right. So my favorite, I have, uh, several favorite quotes. Okay. I'm going to give them all to you. Okay. Because I refuse to pick the first one.

Maya Angelou, people will forget what you did. They will forget what you said, but they will always remember how you made them feel. Make them feel Yes. Or something along those lines. Yes. I always misquote quotes. The other one is, and I always have to read it, but I always have it nearby because it is how I see the world, um, and how I see,

um, [00:48:00] life and. Stuff. Where did I put it? Hold on, I'm gonna find it. I'm gonna find it.

So, sorry. I know that came to mind. I will also say back to favorite song. Um, uh, I have to say that Kendrick Lamar's, GN X has been on repeat in my world. Like Kendrick is one of my like, top favorite artists right now. And, and not because of Super Bowl, just, and not because of the whole thing with Drake, whatever.

Although his petty is admirable. Um, so this, so here's another one from Charles Olson, a poet, I believe. He said, whatever you have to say, leave the roots on, let them dangle and the dirt, just to make clear where they come from. Oh. Mm-hmm. [00:49:00] Wow. Um, and then my last one I will share is, I believe it is Lao Say, who said, be careful what you think.

Because what you think becomes what you say. What you say becomes what you do. What you do becomes wait, hold up, becomes your habits. Yes. Your habits determine your character. And your character determines your destiny. Oh, it's so true. And again, these are all kind of misquotes, but no but powerful, favorite place to reset or recharge?

Hawaii. Honolulu. Mm. Oahu as an island. Love that. That is my happy. Girl, you gotta go. I know, I know. I don't know how I [00:50:00] It is, it is. God is one. That's where God vacations. Oh, I dare. I dare damn teeth. IG damn to you. I feel God there every like, close by, like he be on my shoulder like, Hey girl, when you been, he chilling.

It has the mountains and the beaches. It has the mountains and the beaches. Okay. In fact, one of my favorite beaches butts up against the mountain. Oh. The mountains is like literally you turn around the mountains there. Wow. Guilty pleasure. Guilty pleasure. Oh gosh. Um,

binge watching CSI.

You had me at binge watching. Yes. I've never watched CSI though. Between CSI, anything on Investigation Discovery, the IB [00:51:00] channel? Yes, baby. Listen. Dateline. Dateline. Um, dangerous Women, deadly Women, whatever. It don't matter. Right? Just girl. NCIS. Yes. Law and Order. Have you been watching Tracker Criminal intent tracker at all?

It comes on I think after 60 Minutes. Have not, but I'll write again. It's a good one. It's it's a good one. Um, well, Jean, thank you for being so open and so Jeannerous. This conversation is going to land, I'm sure, deeply. I hope so, so many women. Um, where can they connect with you and grab their copy of Fearless Authenticity, which I highly recommend.

Thank you dear Fearless authenticity.com/book. Is where all the things are. The audio book just came out on March 25th. It [00:52:00] is available on Amazon, Barnes and noble bookshop.org. Any place you get your book and or audio books, Libro fm on the library, networks of books. If you, if you're interested in audio in particular, apple, all of the places.

Uh, but you can find the link, uh, the links at my website, airless authenticity.com/book. Wonderful. And you are narrating your, your book. I am narrating it myself. That was a, that was a, a, a, a gift that I fought for and got. Wonderful. Well, thank you so, so much. Thank you, Tracy. You are a beautiful fix girl.

Oh, . Thank you.

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