Knocked Down, Not Knocked Out: Finding Strength After Life Disrupts Everything (with Pam Sandrock)

What does real strength look like when life knocks you down?

In this powerful conversation, Tracy sits down with Pam Sandrock to talk about resilience, identity, and what it truly means to rise after hardship. After navigating a cancer diagnosis and life-altering decisions, Pam shares how acceptance, self-trust, and honoring your truth can become the foundation for healing and growth.

Together, they explore what it means to be “knocked down, not knocked out,” why midlife is not a crisis but a turning point, and how letting go of obligation and “shoulds” creates space for clarity, peace, and alignment. Pam reflects on redefining strength, embracing both weakness and resilience, and trusting that there is always something on the other side of the hardest seasons.

This episode is for anyone who feels down, stuck, or overwhelmed by change and needs a reminder that even when life disrupts everything, there is still more life to be lived, more joy to be found, and more truth waiting to emerge.

In this episode, we cover:

• What “knocked down, not knocked out” really means in hard seasons
• Healing, resilience, and acceptance after cancer
• Letting go of guilt, obligation, and the pressure to be everything
• Why midlife is a moment of curiosity, not crisis
• Finding strength, peace, and clarity through self-trust
• How stillness, journaling, and presence support emotional healing
• Becoming an elder, guide, or source of wisdom for the next generation

Connect with Pam Sandrock:

• Instagram & Facebook: @noknockouts
• Podcast: No Knockouts Podcast (available on Apple, Spotify, and all major platforms)
• Website: noknockouts.com
• Book Club: Do Midlife Well (links available via her Instagram bio)

If you’re walking through a season that feels heavy, uncertain, or disruptive, this conversation is a reminder that you are not done yet. You may be down, but you are not knocked out.

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Transcript

Knocked Down, Not Knocked Out: Finding Strength When Life Disrupts Everything with Pam Sandrock

[00:00:00] Welcome back to a Beautiful Fix. My guest today is Pam Sandrock. Pam is a life coach, the creator of No Knockouts and the voice behind the No Knockouts Podcast. A space dedicated to resilience, transformation, and rising strong after life throws its hardest punches. She believes that while pain and hardship are inevitable, staying down is optional.

Pam helps women in midlife navigate reinvention, rebuild strength, and rediscover purpose. And in human design, Pam is a three five emotional projector, which means she's here to guide others by invitation. And through the lessons she's learned from real life experience and with emotional authority, she's designed to take her time when making decisions, kind of feeling things over time instead of just rushing into yeses.

So, Pam, I'm so glad you're here today. Let's jump on in. How are you? I am wonderful. Thanks for having me, Tracy. This is such an honor. I'm really looking forward to this. [00:01:00] I'm so excited. I'm so excited. Um, so Pam, let's just jump right in with the podcast you created No Knockouts, which is a brand and podcast that helps women rise after hardship.

What brought that vision to life? It comes from hardship, honestly. Um, I in. I was 37 years old and I was diagnosed with breast cancer. I was really blindsided by it, and I really struggled with the word cancer. Uh, I didn't think I deserved it. I was ha I had a lot of shame around it. I struggled with it. I had hard decisions to make.

But then years afterwards I was still in emotional suffering 'cause I couldn't accept what. I couldn't accept the diagnosis. I sat in a shame and blame loop and struggled, and even though I was physically better, I was physically a hundred percent capable. I struggled emotionally and one day I just [00:02:00] said to myself, you are not not out.

You are not knocked out. Basically, I had to draw a line in the sand and say, get back in the game. You've got a life to live and stop. Stop pitching yourself your own pity party. And back in those days, I was, I just call it seriously sad. I was seriously sad because I wanted to find something to blame this diagnosis on.

Sure. I felt like I was a healthy, young human and I didn't have any reason to have it. You know, we did diag uh, we did genetic testing and it hadn't run in my family at all. I lived a healthy lifestyle. I checked all the boxes for healthy. Yet, I still got this. And because I couldn't find anything to blame it on, I realized, I guess this is just some hardship I have to experience.

It's just something I get to have. I get to put it on my letter jacket of life. I [00:03:00] get to put this on my life's resume. And I had to really shift my perspective and I had to shift from being a victim into, and I don't, we don't wanna call it a survivor. But I had to live life fully because so many women don't get to live life fully after they get a diagnosis.

And I did. So no knockouts was born from hardship. It was born from the depths of my own suffering, which was really created in my own mind because I was physically capable and physically fine. And I realized you can be knocked down in life. But you are not knocked out. And that is where the name no knockouts has come from, but it's turned into more than that.

It's really a commitment to rise no matter what. And that's the message I put forth is you, you must commit to rise. You have to be willing to climb, and you need to be hungry to [00:04:00] thrive because you only get one life. And although that's a kind of a c cliche phrase. Even though you do get one life, I think you should reinvent yourself over and over and live many lives within that one life.

And so, although I had this hardship, it has grown me and expanded me into something I didn't even know I was capable of. And I intend to live life fully and help other, and want to help other women do the same thing. Not just commit to rise, not just commit to come back from rock bottom. It's about going as high and loud and strong as you wanna go.

So that's where no knockouts came from. I, I just need a minute, Pam. Like you, um, I wasn't ready for that. I, so for those of you listening, I know Pam, and, you know, we've had several beautiful conversations [00:05:00] and I was recently on your podcast and I don't know you, I, I don't know, I just did not see that one coming.

Um, I, I thought, you know, that you were going to share a story similar to what, you know, we hear so much on the show that I was in a place in my life, or I didn't like it. I didn't write that kind of thing. I, I don't know why. I just, you are so vibrant, so full of life. I did not see that coming, but, um, so I just had, I just had to take that in and I just wanna.

Love on you for a second because that is, I was just on a call earlier today where someone mentioned that they were going through something like this similar, and it, there's a whole nother level of strength that comes with this kind of battle. Um, and I completely can identify with what you're saying, that I can only imagine that you would sit back and think, why me?

And start to go backwards and, you know, I lived a healthy life. It's not in my family. Like you we're always searching for that [00:06:00] reason and pity party of course. But for you to get to a point where it didn't knock you down. 'cause that would be so understandable for something like this that kind of diagnose to do that.

But for you to, to kind of brush yourself off and say, no, Uhuh, this, this is not the end of my story. And. To come on the other side and have this appreciation for life that I'm sure you probably didn't actually have before. It's that gratitude thing we talked about when I was on your podcast. I'm, I'm curious though, can you tell us a little bit about where did that strength come from?

Where did that, um, shift and perspective come from? Was it kind of an overnight thing? Was, did something you woke up one day or was it like time, was it hard work to do or. There's a lot there. You said you didn't see this coming. Neither did I, Tracy, I didn't see this coming. I was a fit, healthy person with no reason to get it, no reason on paper.

Right. Um, and, and then you [00:07:00] said something along the lines of, you know, I'm more grateful now. I, it changed me the day I was diagnosed. Within an hour of my diagnosis, I was on my knees on the floor in front of my husband saying. I don't want my life to change. I'm already grateful for what I have. I love my life, and this is changing me.

I know it right now. I'm already changed. Just hearing those words throws you into a surreal state. It did for me. I'm not gonna speak for everyone else, but it threw me into a surreal state. I could no longer feel my body, even though I was fully functional and I lived that way for. While, um, wait. PP Pam, I don't mean to, I don't, I don't wanna cut you off, but when you, when you were saying that you did not wanna change.

I didn't, what, what do you mean? And you said you could feel that you were changing. Mm-hmm. So you were ch you didn't wanna change in a bad way or a like, what? What do you mean? What did you mean by that? I, I already [00:08:00] loved my life. I had two young children. I was a stay at home mom. We had a beautiful home.

We lived a stable life that I loved. There's, there was nothing, I'm gonna, I'm gonna use air quotes here. There was nothing wrong with life. It was normal, right? That we had normal problems, but no big deals. I loved the life we were that we had grown. We meaning my husband and our family, we had grown this beautiful life and I was very appreciative for the space we were in.

And so a lot of times you hear, oh, you have to have something bad happen to you to teach you how to appreciate. That wasn't true for me. I already lived with gratitude. So I didn't know what I was supposed to be getting from this. It was like a massive punch in the face. Like I didn't understand. I'm already full of gratitude.

I already love my life. I go to church. I praise the Lord. I have wonderful people around me by choice. You know, we, we lived a life of intention. I wasn't taking [00:09:00] life for granted at that point in any way, but I knew in those moments, I, I wasn't gonna ever be. The same again, it's this immediate shift because you're gonna have to make hard decisions and now you have a diagnosis.

You have this label on you. You have what your identity is going to be forced to change. And I didn't know what that looked like because I had lived my life from intention for so long. I was happy with it. And so I didn't know what I was supposed to learn from this, and I immediately was trying to find those answers.

Why is this happening? Why did I get this lesson? What am I supposed to get from this? So I struggled from the very beginning because I, I don't wanna say refused. I fought with reality. I didn't want to go in the direction cancer was going to take me in. And so I was trying to find meaning. I was [00:10:00] trying to find a reason why I had it and I could not find that.

And that's also a big lesson in this. We don't always know the reason why crap happens to us. And I'm sorry to put that bluntly, but we don't always know why this stuff happens to us. We don't have all the why's. We don't have all the answers. So to take, take it back to your question of how did I get out of this?

It was not immediate. It was. Months and years of me mentally battling with it, trying to justify, figuring out how I should live life differently going forward. I had this wonderful team of people around me. I kept this very quiet for years. My little tiny circle knew this was not something that was public.

Even in my, even in my close family and friends, there was only a select few people that knew this for many years. And I battled with it, with having that identity change. [00:11:00] And there was a point where I had to draw a line in the sand. I remember standing in the mirror one morning, I had taken my kids to school.

I was standing, came back home and I was standing in the mirror realizing I was living this Groundhog Day. Sadness, you know, was living in this funk. Yes. Still progressing through life from the outside, looking completely normal. But my insights weren't whole. And I just remember thinking, I don't have to feel like this anymore.

I'm physically fine. I am not going to live my life upset. And I truly made a commitment to not live my life upset. And it was a, it was a decision. It was a conscious choice. It wasn't something that I fell into. I didn't read it. It was like, this is it. I'm done with this BS and I'm gonna move forward, and I am going to live the absolute best life I can.

What is in my control for the rest of my life, [00:12:00] not only to the life that I have, but for the people who don't get to do that. Yes, to honor the people who aren't, who didn't get it as good as I got it, because there's plenty of people out there. Who have worst case scenarios, and I want to honor that. I love that you said it was a conscious choice because.

We all have choice in everything that we do, and I don't think we always choose consciously. We just sometimes get into situations and we let the situation take over and lead us or the sadness that you were feeling. But for you to say that, I made a conscious choice to just decide this is it. Um, I was wondering though, you mentioned how.

Private you were with this diagnosis and what you were battling even with close friends and, and some family. Why, why, why were you keeping it so kind of close to your vest and, and secretive and now you have a podcast that it was born from it where you're talking about it, [00:13:00] what changed at the time? I'm a silent fighter.

I'm pretty quiet. I keep my, I keep the hard stuff right at my core. Because I feel like the outside noise is distracting to me. And so in the very beginning I told my mom and my dad and my sisters and it stayed that way for a really long time. And my husband of course, but it stayed that way for a really long time because I knew I was gonna, I, after the first.

Doctor visits, I knew I was gonna have choice in my treatment or I thought I was going to, it looked like I was gonna have choice in what I did with my body, what type of surgery I was gonna have. There was probably gonna be choices in the treatment, and those were gonna be some really hard decisions, and I needed to not have external influence.

I needed clarity. And that needed to be my decision and not anybody else's. I really didn't want outside [00:14:00] influence because I needed to own this. This was my body and out outside of my husband and my doctors, my caretakers. I needed to fully own it because no one else was gonna be affected the way I was.

Yes. And so I needed to block out any potential noise and the only way for me to do that was not share it. That's part one, part two. And I'm not sure this is fully the best way to do it, but it's how I did it. I did it to protect everybody else, not just my kids. They were eight and nine. They, I'm sorry, they were nine and 10 years old.

I didn't want their friends finding out and their friends asking them about their mom. Is your mom okay? They were too young to understand fully. I didn't want them fearful because we had just had a very close friend a couple years prior who had gone through breast cancer and they got to witness that for a long time and it was a hard struggle for this friend of ours.

And I didn't know if I was gonna be traveling that same path or a different one. So I didn't want to [00:15:00] induce fear when it may not be necessary. Okay. So I was protecting my kids, but I also needed, this was selfish, but I needed my husband and my mom and dad for me. I'm a cry. I needed them there for me not to answer everybody else's questions.

I needed them to not be distracted because I needed them, and that was selfish. And so I didn't want other friends and family coming to them with phone calls, text messages, emails that they felt like they had to answer, that they may not even know the answer to. And I didn't want them having to lie or to lead on a story that wasn't truthful.

Or even to answer any unknowns. And I selfishly just needed them for me. 'cause I could, I knew I couldn't do this by myself. So even though I had previously defined myself as a really strong person, I was not to my knees and I was weak and I couldn't [00:16:00] function without assistance for a little while. And so it was selfish.

It was a selfish decision. My cancer wasn't for anybody else. I didn't wanna be a source of gossip. Yeah, I didn't wanna be a source of, um, entertainment 'cause I don't feel like that's healthy. So I protected myself in my small circle of people around me. I don't regret it. If I had to do it all over again, knowing what I'd know the way I did it, I would do it again the same way.

'cause that's how I rooted in power. I rooted in power in my small firm circle as opposed to spreading it all out. Pam, I love it. I see. I don't see it as selfish at all. I, I'm listening to an incredibly strong woman who is aware of her needs and put herself first at a time where you needed that. Um, it, it's a whole nother level of strength because I feel like I'm the opposite.

If I was going through something like that, I think I would. [00:17:00] Wanna just, part of the pity party that I would have is just woe is me and I, I don't know, I think I would've needed as many people to, I don't know who you can't say, but the fact that you chose to do it exactly how you needed it to be done, I think is wonderful.

I, I just think it's wonderful. Um, so, but then you. I'm just curious not to go down this too much, but when, when you did decide, when, I guess, did it come with healing or when was the moment where you said, where you let people in and you told people what you went through? Um, after I finished my last surgery.

Okay. Which was a few months down the road, I told my close friends. I told my close friends I needed to do most of it after the fact because I knew they were so genuine and would care so deeply. I needed to let them know I was okay and gonna be fine. I [00:18:00] didn't want them to go through the hurt with me because I knew they would.

I knew they genuinely cared about me and I them hurting. Wasn't going to do them or me any favors. Yes. So I needed, I needed my outside world to be normal. I needed to know I had, I would be able to go back to them and life would continue on as usual, even though I had been changed and I had that, had the, I had the response of Why didn't you tell me?

What, what do you mean yes. What in the hell? How did I not know? Yes. You know, what the heck? You know, I had all of that. But I also had the respect of, of course you did it this way, you know, we dove into, of course, this is how you're gonna do it, because my, my closest people know me. Yes. You know, so we, I lived like that for years.

I didn't come out publicly with, in, with no [00:19:00] knockouts until 2025. Mm. You know, I had, I had, there was some, some trickling of things before then, but my podcast didn't start until 2025. And so it took some warming up for me to do. It's hard to have something so close to you and then put it out there, but it's not going out there for me.

I actually don't have a need to put that out there. It's more to help someone else who might need to hear it. Because I don't know what if someone is similar to this? What if someone is knocked down and all they have to hear is I'm committed to rise? And that helps them take one step up the rung of the ladder that they have to climb.

So it's out there as a service to someone who just maybe, just maybe needs to hear it. That's what convinced me to really move forward with no knockouts. Because at the end of the day, [00:20:00] let's say I'm on my deathbed and I'm looking back, I don't wanna die with that secret. What if it could have held somebody, I mean not held?

What if it could have helped someone be held? Mm-hmm. What if it could help them find strength? If they don't have the strength, I'm gonna let them borrow some of mine. I know when I didn't have it, I had to borrow it from my close friend, from my mom and dad and my husband and my sisters. And so if they're not getting it from the sources they need it from, please borrow my strength.

Please borrow my brave because you can have it for a little while. So that's where this comes from, from my depths. I love it. And it also makes me think of, I was on a podcast recently where we talked about shame and, um, and not to say that there's any shame associated with this, but there's something about secrets and holding things in it.

I feel like it festers and it grows and it, I I, I, I'm hoping that you being able to just openly talk about this, especially from the place of my [00:21:00] story, can heal someone else. That it just releases anything versus if you were walking around feeling like you still, you know, couldn't or didn't wanna share it.

I have to believe that you being able to talk about it not only is going to help others, but also will continue to help you heal from, from all of this. Yeah, I think that I had a lot of shame for years be before I drew the line in the sand and said, I'm not gonna suffer any longer about this emotionally.

I carried a lot of shame and embarrassment around it because I felt like I was going to be judged. People were gonna wonder what did she do to get this, you know, I didn't want the judgment that came associated with it. Um, but I really released that shame through the process, and I don't feel like I've carried it for quite some time.

I will say that each time I do get to talk about it, it is slightly freeing, but not to the magnitude that you would expect It feels, um, like I've already released the grip on [00:22:00] it. You know, it's kind of, it was kind of like a tug of war for so long. I was pulling one way and I was just going back and forth, just tugging, and as soon as I let that grip go, the shame was gone.

The embarrassment was gone. I feel like I've embraced a new identity. I got to be someone who lived for 37 years without cancer, and now I get to be the rest of my life. Someone who has had cancer, it was about an identity shift for me. I could release the shame, but I had to accept the person who everybody kind of doesn't wanna be.

No one says I wanna get cancer, but I did. So I had to embrace. The person that most people try to avoid being, I had to look at it as a badge of survival or a badge of honor, not just bad luck. And so now that you're on the other side, and you think about that moment when you were kneeling in front of your husband saying, I don't want to change, what are your thoughts on it now?

Now that you see Pam, [00:23:00] the survivor, Pam, the woman who has gone on to create this podcast, what do you think about the change now feels so expanded. I don't know if another experience would've happened to me if I didn't have that. There's no way to know those things, but I know this somehow forced me through years of shame, through years of embarrassment, through years of mental struggle, I somehow overcame that and that overcoming pushed me into growth and expansion that I don't know if was possible if I didn't have this diagnosis.

So I am incredibly grateful for being forced into something and, and no one forced me there. It's just how I learned to overcome. And so I am grateful for having had it because I got to live something that hopefully most people don't mine. My experience comes with gratitude and respect. [00:24:00] I get to honor what happened to me.

I don't wanna look at it as this horrible thing that's in the past. Why do I need to relive that? My choice is to look forward. My choice is to live right now in this moment. 'cause this is the only moment I have. Yes. And on my gazes forward, not backwards. So I wanna bring up a word that you use.

Resilience. Mm-hmm. What does resilience look like to you now compared to your earlier life? So I look at this different, many. I can answer this in many ways. I used to think you can always come back. You can always come back. You're gonna bounce back, right? You hear that you're gonna bounce back. But I disagree with that.

And here's why. I just alter it in my mind. You can't always go back to the person you were. Sometimes you have to bounce in a different direction, and in my case, that was true. I could never go back to the person who had, who didn't have cancer. I can't go back to that [00:25:00] person. I had to change, so I had to bounce forward.

So you're not always gonna bounce back. Sometimes you have to bounce forward, and that doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad thing. You can make it a good thing. So resilience isn't always bouncing back, sometimes it's bouncing forward. So there's that. But to me, I always associated resilience with strength and I still do.

You have to have an inner strength to get through life. We just have to, we have, we're we, we're all resilient. We all struggle with something from time to time. But that doesn't mean you're also not weak. There are times where you are down and out. You are laying in bed crying or in the shower crying or just exhausted, and that doesn't mean you're not resilient and you're not strong.

That means you need to recover. That means you need to rest. That means you need to reset. That may mean you need to get in alignment. With your heart and soul, your heart, your mind and your soul may not be in balance. And you know what I'm [00:26:00] talking about Tracy here, 'cause I know you are on my podcast. When you're not in alignment, when you're not who you're meant to be, you're exhausted, you're tired, they life doesn't feel right.

And you have to get in alignment to be in your most powerful state. And when you're in your most powerful state, you are resilient. So alignment and resilience go together for me. So when I say yes to something, and this is what I encourage anybody to do, say yes what's to what's right for you? And say no to what's not right for you.

Because that's how you're going to be most powerful and most resilient. Yes. And, and your body is always, always trying to get your attention, is always trying to talk to you. We have to just honor that more. And it's interesting 'cause I'm just thinking about your human design. Um, just being a three, five, you know, the three is all about experimentation.

It's all about trial and errors. It's about living life and not getting it wrong, getting messy. [00:27:00] You're either winning or you're learning and you know, is what I always like to, to say. I just think about how you've lived your life from your lived experiences. That is how you are able to impact others. And you certainly, certainly are doing that.

Yeah, I think so. I don't think I can see life through another lens at this point. Mm. I think it's hard for me to see life without having had cancer. I can remember what that looked like, but my viewpoint is so different. You know, for example, I think a lot of people don't want to age women especially, they fight with the wrinkles and the gray hair and the sagging, whatever, right?

Yeah. My goals are different. I wanna grow old. I wanna grow gray, I wanna grow wrinkly, I wanna go grow, whatever comes with that. Because if I grow to be old, that's a true win. That means I've lived a long life. Now, I don't want to advance into that in any way, but my goals are [00:28:00] to live what I say. I wanna live long and strong.

And so I think because I, I, I don't see women run around saying, I can't wait to grow old. I can't wait to get gray. I can't wait for that either, but that's what I hope and strive for because that means I've lived a long time, even with having had a cancer threat in my thirties. So I wanna grow old, I wanna grow gray, and I wanna grow wrinkly and wise because the other option of not doing that I'm not interested in.

I want the longevity and whatever comes with that because that's the gift. I'll take it, I'll take it. I embrace the age I'm, I am currently 48 years old and you know, people approach 50 or they approach 60 or 40 or whatever the big milestone birthday birthdays are. A lot of people go at that with fear or it's a time to reset.

Bring it on. Let me have it, let me [00:29:00] have the 50, let me have the 55. Let me have the 60, the 70, the 80, the 90, and whatever it comes with. It's gonna come with a ton of hardship in between. 'cause that's what life is. It's gonna come with a lot of good and a lot of hard. But if I get to experience that, that means I win.

That means to me, living is winning. So, back to no knockouts a little bit. I feel as if a lot of times people want to avoid hardship and struggle. That's natural. Nobody likes it. I can't stand it. I'm a, I'm a. I'm a weenie. I mean, I don't like it either, but we all have it. And the more you fight with it, the harder it is.

If you can just accept it as, Hey, it's my turn. I guess it's my turn to have this problem or this hardship right now, you're gonna get through it much faster if you can accept reality. And that's what I struggled with for so long. I had to accept a cancer diagnosis and what I chose to do with my body. If you can [00:30:00] accept it, life just gets better.

You can at least take steps forward if you've accepted what's true. And that's true for Tracy. That's true for our own alignment. If we can accept what's true for ourselves and then act upon that, we are, we are more resilient that way when we're living our truth, we're gonna get knocked out and knocked down a lot less.

Easier. You know, we're, we're, we're tougher that way. You've learned so many amazing lessons. 'cause Yes, it's, so everything you just said was beautiful. The whole concept behind aging, you know, if you go on social media for more than two seconds, at least in my feed, there's a cream for this. There's a, you know, there's people fighting it constantly, but what a beautiful reframe to see that.

No, it's, I tend to think of it, of aging in that way as well, because often I will think of the friends that I had that. Died at 18, some kind of [00:31:00] horrible, horrific accident. And every once in a while I will stop and think about them and think about all of the things that they didn't get a chance to experience or enjoy.

So when I see the gray hairs, or you know, when I see another birthday on the calendar, I realize it truly is, it's a gift. It really is. Um, wow. I, again, I'm just still kind of taken back. Um, so. What are your thoughts on shifting just a little bit on this idea of, you mentioned, you know, it felt selfish. Um, it, have you, is there something that you've had to kind of unlearn to become the woman that you are right now?

The first thing that comes to mind is yeses and nos. I can now feel. What I wanna do or don't wanna do, pretty quick and pretty strong. You know, a lot of times people get stuck in their maybes, do I wanna do [00:32:00] this? Do I not wanna do this? I feel like my discernment muscle has really strengthened after the fact.

I didn't feel so obligated. I erased the word. I didn't erase the word. Should I still say it all the time? But. When I hear the word should, it's a trigger word for me that immediately says, wait a second, who said you should and do? Does does there? Is there a want in there? So I kind of release a lot of obligation and shoulds and live more in the I want to or I don't want to.

'cause why not? Because why not? You know, we still have plenty of obligations in our life, but. I think if you look at life as I get to do many of the things that we have to do, that shifts your perspective. Instead of saying, I have to list the things, I have to pay the bills, I have to put away the dishes.

I have to go to work. I have to take so and so to the doctor. I have to take care of the aging [00:33:00] parents. If you can shift that to I get to do these things, your life automatically improves. You automatically feel less bad. I think I'm very conscious of my words or I'm more conscious of my words. After this, I am more intentional and I shape my actions and my words to match what's really going on in my soul.

And I'm human. I still make plenty of mistakes and get off kilter, but I wouldn't say that's a drastic improvement for me is I am able to discern between. What I want and what I don't want a lot faster than I used to. Could hopefully you do it unapologetically. No guilt. It's like, Nope. I know what I want.

I know what I don't want. Yeah. I think that the guilt, and I think that's normal. I think we all get guilt, but if I assess it and I realize I'm staying true to myself and I'm honoring myself and I'm not sacrificing myself, [00:34:00] then I can let that guilt go. My intentions are good behind whatever I'm deciding.

You know, it's, it's not out of deception or hurt or pain for someone else. My intent is good, including to keep myself elevated, including to keep myself in a good place, and so. It's just honoring life. It's honoring the life that I get to have or anybody else's. It's if I say no to something, it's not a necessarily against what I'm turning down.

It might be in favor of me, yes. Not out of selfishness, but so I can serve others in a way that I'm aligned with. What would you say to someone who's listening to this right now who might be going through a similar hardship or something different, but. But maybe she feels kind of knocked out at this moment.

Would you have any advice for her? I know everybody goes through different things in different situations, but if you can [00:35:00] embrace the, I'm knocked down, but I'm not knocked out Verbiage. When you're at your depths, when you're laying in your closet crying or in your car crying, and you realize how crappy your situation is right now, if you can come back to the present.

Just realize you are just fine. You might be living a living hell, but you are gonna come back, commit to rise live, whatever you're going through. But there is something on the other side. There is something on the other side. And just because you're taking these breath, this breath and having these thoughts, you are not knocked out.

You're just down and out right now. So you're gonna come back when? When every door, what is the phrase? When one door closes, another opens, you might have a door closing for you. You maybe didn't choose that this door is closing for you. You maybe don't want this door to close for you. Maybe you do. That doesn't matter.

If a door is closing, you're gonna walk through [00:36:00] another open door and there is something in that new room. There is something on the other side of that new door. Jam that threshold. As soon as you cross, you're in a new ball game. The one that you left, isn't the end game something that just came to mind?

Remember when we were back in school and you'd le, you know, you'd get outta school in Maine, you'd have June, July, part of August, and then you go back to school. I remember. I don't know what grade it was, sixth or seventh grade. I remember thinking this was the best year ever. I'm never gonna have another year as good as this one.

And I didn't want the school year to end. Right. Because I was having fun with my friends and then we were all gonna like part ways for the summer. You don't see each other as much. Yes. And I was sad for those first few weeks. With, you know, like that was the best nothing's ever gonna live up to that year.

And how old were you at that time? Like 12 or 13 or something. You think that that's the end game. That was your best year of your life, then you start school in August, or you're fixing to start school and you don't even want school to [00:37:00] start because you don't want summer to end. And then you start school and you realize, oh my gosh, it's even better.

Yeah, it's even better. And, and so we don't, as adults, we don't have the cycles of school anymore. Our school doesn't end. We get a little break from life and start all over again. But it's the same concept. Yes, you might be ending your school year and you're gonna start a new one, and it's just gonna be, it's gonna be just as good if not better.

It's gonna be what you make it to be. Yes. We're not all subject to the circumstances. You have plenty of choice in your life. Take it. It's not all happenstance. It's not all just what happens to you, it's what you make of it. So you may be down and out. Take that time, take those moments, take those hours, days, weeks, years, whatever you need.

But come out of that and walk through that threshold and make whatever room you're in the biggest, funnest, baddest, coolest room that you wanna make it in. Take your power [00:38:00] back. Take your power. Don't let it all go away from you. You may be powerless or you may feel powerless right now, but there's better days ahead.

Yes, there's more life to be had. Pam. I love it. I love the school analogy and the idea of when people are going through something to, if you can, maybe you can't do it right away, but at some point to try to think of what might be on the other side, what lesson. Um, am I supposed to learn or, or get from this?

Or how might my life look differently on the other end? Because yes, when you're in school, you can't possibly imagine that seventh grade is gonna be better than sixth grade. You haven't lived it, you have no perspective. Then you get into seventh grade and you're like, oh my gosh. So it's very similar.

It's can be so scary during these times. But the idea of, you know, I was gonna say with with schools, I think that was one of the things that got me a little sad when I was in corporate America was I kind of miss that. I'm in second grade, next year's third grade, I'm in sixth grade. Next year I'm gonna go to middle [00:39:00] school.

I'm in middle school. Next year I'm gonna go to high school and then I'm gonna go to college. Like I liked kind of seeing that thing that I was reaching for, and as you get older, it's like, well, next year I'm gonna be sitting at this desk doing the same thing, you know? So I think if you can try to just get excited about that.

There might be something around the corner that I can't see. This might be pushing me towards something that, you know, like you said on my own, I probably wouldn't have done it. I was just reading a book earlier today and it was saying how sometimes our children. Are here to really push us that we are able to do things that we would've never on our own done without having the, the love of our, you know, children like you see that they need certain things, they need, uh, you know, a home and, um, shelter and food.

And so you, there are these things that you kind of do just from that place of love that you might have not done if it was just, if life was just about you. And it feels kind of similar, that sometimes these [00:40:00] big things push us into something even bigger. Yeah. I think that's why, I think why I am so ingrained with no knockouts.

I don't think I would've come up with that. Yeah. I don't think I would've had it unless I went through cancer. You know, something else, when I was in my depths in those first few weeks, I couldn't even sometimes form sentences or words. I just had feelings and I would jot them down in a journal. And I didn't sit and do journal prompts.

I would just write down words or phrases that came to mind. They were meaningful to me, but I didn't know why I, I knew there was something to them and a lot of 'em would come back over and over again and I would just write down words and phrases. And I turned back to that journal when I came up with this no knockouts coaching and podcast brand.

And I think that's why I was jotting them down. They were seeds. They were seeds that have or will be developed into something for me. [00:41:00] And I mean, I've developed podcasts topics off of some of some of 'em and have plans for others. But I think when you're in your, when you're at rock bottom, write down things that come to mind.

Not because it's gonna be something like it was for me. But it does help just to let it out. I think we keep so much inside of us and it festers and we feel trapped and stuck, and it just sits in our hearts and in our souls and our gut. And if you can write that out, put pen to paper and just release some of it, you lighten your load and, and so just journaling is healthy.

We all know that. But do it. Yeah. Don't, don't just know it. Actually do it. Do it. And that was one of the things for me. You never know what's going to come out that may serve you going forward. It could be a seed for something. Pam, before we move into the speed round, is there anything else that you would like to share about your story that you haven't shared with us today?[00:42:00] 

Gosh, no. I, I can't not, it's so big. I can't just do one thing, right? There's so much that goes into it, but I think. I remember laying on the couch after one of my surgeries and just crying a few days afterwards, and I remember telling my sister, I'm so weak, I thought I was a strong person. And she, and she was like, you are strong.

You've just gone through this hellacious surgery and you're in pain and that doesn't make you not not strong. And I'm like, I know, but I was, I was so emotionally sad. I was so devastated in my mind that I was having to do this, and I don't, I think me just verbalizing that is, I thought I was strong, but I'm really weak.

That was such a defining moment for me because I can, I can look back [00:43:00] on it and realize we're not just one thing. I always, I had always labeled myself as strong, but we're not always strong. We're not always funny. We're not always kind. We're not always a great mom. Sometimes we're not those things as well, and I think if we allow ourselves to be.

And instead of either or, we open up our life. Sometimes we're a good mom and some days we're just not the best mom. We could have done better, but that doesn't mean we're not a good mom. And that's true with all things in life. Many, we may be a great spouse, but we have our moments where we're not. I think if we embrace the, and we're, we're this and we're this, and in that, in this, in this situation, I was strong and weak and I allowed for both of those in my life.

And so going forward when I have moments of weakness or periods of time where I, I'm something where I don't think I am, I just let it be [00:44:00] there and realize that will pass and I will come back to solid ground. Another time. And so I think it's important, important to embrace the and, and not just live or think that we're just one way, we're multifaceted, not just one thing.

And embrace the dynamics of life. Mm-hmm. Whether you choose it or it's thrown at you. Let it be dynamic. 'cause that's where we grow. We may be forced into it, but it, and it might hurt, but that puts you into the next evolution of yourself to embrace it. Thank you. I love that. Thank you. Uh, embrace the end always.

Mm-hmm. So, Pam, what makes you come alive? Hmm? Nature. Nature. I like to be outside. I don't like concrete buildings. I don't like cars all around me. I don't like noise. I like silence and stillness and green trees, water flowing. I feel [00:45:00] most at peace. I always say when I'm in nature I say, I can hear God better now.

Sure, absolutely. So nature is what makes I say come alive. I kind of associated come alive with peace there. That's where I feel most true. I'll say that is when I'm in nature. What's a song that instantly shifts your energy or makes you feel something

footloose? Do you remember the movie Footloose Like Back? Absolutely. I guess it was probably like the eighties, early nineties. The original. I love that song. I love that movie. I can't help but Shimmy and Shake as soon as I hear that song. You have to. You cannot not. Yeah. Dates me. Yeah, it dates me and I don't care.

Gimme a dance floor or not. I'm gonna dance, isn't it? Is that Kenny Logins? It is Kenny Loggins. Yes, Kenny Loggins. So good. Yeah. I love that song. What's a book that cracked you open or stayed with you long after the last page? The [00:46:00] Power of Now by Eckhart Tole. Yes. I would've never thought of myself as a spiritual person.

I would have because I am faithful. I do practice my religion. But in that sense, I would've never thought about that until I read The Power of Now, and it's been a few years since I read it, but that really changed my life being in the present moment. Is only the only place we can live. We can think about the past, but you have no control of it.

You can think about the future. You think you have control of it, you can plan for the future, but it's really out there. It's non-existent. The only present moment, the only moment you have is the present, and that totally changed how I live life. And so it, it, it diminishes my worry. 'cause when you're in worry, you're only thinking about the future.

You're anxious or worried. That is time spent in the moment. You can't control in the future. If you're ruminating about the past, you can't do anything about it. It's wasted energy. [00:47:00] Just live in the present moment. Do what you can do right now. Once I heard that, um, when you think about the pa, when you're depressed, you're thinking about the past and when you're anxious, you're thinking about the future.

It's like, why, why do either one of those? But when you're in the present moment, you're not either one of those things. You can't be, you're present. Yeah. That's where your joy lives. Yes. That's where your joy lives, right here, right now. And it's the only moment you have control over. Yes. It's a beautiful book.

I love it. It's been years since I've read it. It's on, it's, I'm looking at it right now. I need to dust it off. But, um, do you have, do you have books? What are, what are some books that you like to read? Pam, don't even start with me. I, okay. Same with me. I have books there. I probably read, I probably read three books at a time.

I have a bad habit with doing that, but I'm constantly ordering and I keep saying, Tracy, you need to go to the library and just check books out. But I like to have them and highlight them, and I have them all. I have 'em all. There's only been a couple of books that people have mentioned on this podcast, and I'm like, I've [00:48:00] never heard that, or I haven't read it, so I just guess, yeah.

Yeah. I'm a reader too. Same for me. I'm, anytime there's a book sold on Amazon, I'm scouring it. I'm like, oh, that's on my list. That's on my list, totally. What's your favorite little indulgence or guilty pleasure? Oh, okay. So Blue Bell, homemade vanilla ice cream. Blue Bell is a brand of ice cream. I'm in Texas.

And it's a brand that resides here. It's created here. The company is in Brenham, Texas, and it's in some of the other states now. But I love ice cream and their homemade vanilla is just the softest, simplest, most comforting food. And I don't get me wrong, I like all of, but I just want the simple vanilla, it soothes my soul.

I think homemade vanilla ice cream is highly underrated. There is something, oh my gosh, about it. That is just especially homemade. It is just, you don't need all the, as much as I love Ben and [00:49:00] Jerry's, I love having all the stuff in there, my cherries and bits of chocolate, but there's something about just homemade vanilla ice cream that is just, it's because it's simple.

Tracy. It's simple. It's because, I mean, I love the chewy chunks of all the other ice cream too. That's fun, right? But the simplicity of the vanilla takes me back to base. It, it, it centers me. I can hug a tree or eat ice cream, and I go into the same place. And why, why is it that you crave least me? I crave ice cream The later it gets at night.

What, what is that? Is that a thing? Is that, am I alone in this? No, you're not alone. What? I will do. We'll say, though, I could eat at any time of day, but I do like it mostly at night. It is. It calming our nerves. Is it our nervous system? I don't know. What's the science behind it? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know, but it's evil.

I have to just stop. So Blue Bell, homemade vanilla is probably my, my favorite indulgence. I do love a good latte though. I hot a hot la I don't, I'm not into [00:50:00] the cold coffee drinks. No. Um, I like the hot lattes and I like a mocha too, but they're a little heavier. They're a little creamier. And because I'm getting a latte, I feel like I'm getting fewer calories and it's healthier.

Sure. Right. I would say those are my indulgences. Those are good Indul, indulgences. Uh, what's one thing that always reminds you how beautiful life really is? Hmm, that's a good question. Oh, it, you know what, this isn't, this isn't profound nothingness. I like nothingness when I can release the noise, escape the noise, and sit in silence, whether that be in my home or in nature.

To me, that's. That's where I realize how beautiful everything is. When I can slow down and look at all the things that are in existence and quiet and stillness, that's where I really feel most solid. And so I know that's [00:51:00] not profound, but I really like the state of nothingness. See, Pam, I'm gonna, I'm gonna argue that I think that's incredibly profound because I think that stillness is where.

Everything truly lives, and I, I know that sounds just odd, but I really do believe that that when you can get still, which is not easy for someone like me, I have a defined head in Ajna in human design. It's constant thinking, constant noise. But when you can get still, that is where you hear the answers.

That is where I think you feel. I think that's where gratitude comes from. I think that's where love, I think that's where just realness comes from, the noise. It's just a distraction. Oh yeah, the noise is a distraction. And secondly, this just came to me and I don't know if it's because it's, you know, it's December uh, right now, but a children's choir, a children's choir brings a sense of peace to me.

And I, I guess maybe that's in the back of my mind 'cause I'm thinking. Christmas, mass, Christmas Church, you know, maybe that's why it's coming to me, but a [00:52:00] good solid children's choir with those angelic voices. Yeah. Sitting in a very quiet church and that's all you hear, man. That is heavenly. I, I just find that just incredibly peaceful.

I find that beautiful. But again, that, that is, um, that is stillness. That's its own version of stillness. Yeah. So you're right. Well, and normally I end my speed round there, but I have a new question. Okay. Like, you'll be the first person I test this on. So I've been thinking a lot about how midlife it isn't a crisis.

It's actually a turning point. It's a chance to get curious. I like to coin it, midlife curiosity. So tell me. What's something you're genuinely curious about these days? Maybe something you're rethinking, exploring or waking up to in this season of your life. What are you curious, Pam? Wow. Okay. That's an excellent question and.

I know, [00:53:00] I don't wanna say I know a lot about midlife. I study midlife. I have a, a book club that is called Do Midlife Well, so we read books about midlife. So I have some background to this, however, I'm not gonna answer that based on anything I've ever read. This is just something that keeps coming back to me.

Lately. When I was growing up, I spent, I grew up around a large family. My mom, my grandfather, my mom's dad, he was one of nine siblings. Okay. And they all had kids. So my mom had a lot of cousins and then they all had kids and I had a lot of those families around me. We grew up together and my, my aunts it, and it's actually my mom's aunts, my great aunts and my grandmother, that generation, they would get together.

All the time and sit and talk and they called it coffee clutch. They were a German family. I think it's spelled K-L-A-T-S-C-H. I don't even really know what that means. But they would coffee clutch, they would sit around and drink coffee and talk and, and [00:54:00] sometimes we'd stop by my aunt's house or one of 'em and visit while they were there.

And that was exciting 'cause we got to go see our aunts or our granny or whoever it was. And I'm realizing they're all gone. My granny is still alive. Um. She's not living her best life, but she is still alive. But most of that generation has passed, and now I'm in midlife. And it makes me wonder what were they doing?

What were they talking about? Were, at the time I thought they were just gossiping about all of us, but I don't know, were they actually supporting each other through their life the way me and my girlfriends and my sisters do when we get together? Because it didn't look like that from the outside. Did that sisterhood exist between them decades ago?

The way I feel like I have that relationship with my sisters and my best friends now was that their sisterhood, and did they realize how much they were giving [00:55:00] back to me and all of the cousins in my generation who would show up and sit there and talk with them, and they'd invite us to the table to have a piece of cake with them.

We felt special being involved in this big adult discussion that will always sit with me. I don't think I ever heard anything profound. Nothing moved me. If so, I don't remember it. But those were special moments to me and now I have young nieces and so it has me sort of turning my mind going maybe, maybe I'm gonna be one of those people one day.

Maybe I already am. Maybe when I invite my nieces and the younger cousins and whoever is younger to the table, I'll just say in quotes to the table, maybe I'm having the same inclusion effect on the young people in my life that my elders had on me. And so let me, let me equate this to something. Am I becoming an [00:56:00] elder?

You know? Not in a, not in an old way right way, but in a way that gives back and that can provide wisdom and, and give comfort and inclusion to someone who might need it. Maybe it's not a youthful person who is in elementary school. Maybe it's to someone who's 20, you know? So does, does, is the tide turning?

Am I in the middle of the tide? And I once looked up to a lot of ladies. Am I eventually gonna be someone who people look, that I look up, that people look up to me. I don't know if that was clear. Does that make sense though? Yeah. I think you're already there. I think just from you sharing your story, you are already doing that for for many, but that's, oh, were you gonna say something?

I was just gonna say, that's what's been coming to me lately. I realize. That I'm different and I didn't even make that decision. You know, I don't go to coffee Clutch, but my [00:57:00] girlfriends and I do go to coffee, you know? Yeah. And so is that the same thing? Are we all eventually gonna become an elder full of wisdom that we help the younger generations that we invite in and share to the younger women and the younger ladies in our life and have an impact on them?

I think so. Yeah. I think we are. If we're lucky, we will all get that. Yeah, that change. Exactly. If we all grow old gray, wrinkled, and wise. That's right. Well, Pam, where's the best place for listeners to find you or follow along with your work and your podcast? I'm most, uh, active on Instagram, um, more than Facebook, but I'm at Nok knockouts on Instagram and Facebook.

My podcast is the Nok Knockouts podcast. I'm on Apple and Spotify and all the places. Um, and I have a book club do midlife. Well, if you wanna sign up for that, that there's links for that in my Instagram bio or on my website, no, knockouts.com. And then I, you know [00:58:00] what? I don't know when this is gonna come out, Tracy.

I created a meditation series for the holidays, and I've called it Silence the Noise because I feel like the noise of the holidays gets to us. Society tells us that we have to do all the things. There's all the parties, there's all the events, and so I created a meditation series that's available on Instagram in my bio if anyone's interested in doing a Silence, the Noise meditation.

I love that. Well, thank you. Thank you, Pam. Thank you so much for this conversation and showing what real strength looks like. And to those of you listening in, if life's knocked you out, down around, I hope that Pam's story reminded you that it's never too late to rise, reinvent, and reclaim your strength.

And until next time, keep getting high on life one beautiful fix at a time. Thanks for having.