Walking the Camino: What is it and why is everyone doing it? (with Karen Richter)

Have you been hearing about the Camino de Santiago and wondering what it actually is and why so many people seem drawn to walk it?

Karen Richter of Confident by Nature walked the most popular route across northern Spain. Six weeks. Roughly 500 miles. Almost no reservations. Everything on her back. Most of it alone.

What she came home with was not what she expected.

In this conversation we get into what the Camino actually is, what drew Karen there, and what happens to a person when they spend six weeks putting one foot in front of the other with nowhere to be and no one who knows them.

Karen is also a certified forest bathing guide and she is gifting listeners a free remotely guided mini nature immersion. Register at https://www.forestbathingfinder.com/guide-profile/karenrichter/, click the My Walks tab, and use coupon code JiIHJc.

She is also launching Weekly Whispers, a free Wednesday email designed to help you feel a little more alive in the middle of everyday life. Find it at confidentbynature.com.

Connect with Karen:
 Website: confidentbynature.com
 Instagram: instagram.com/cohesiveoutcomes
 Facebook: Karen Stanley Richter
 LinkedIn: Karen S. Richter

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Transcript

Walking the Camino: What is it and why is everyone doing it? (with Karen Richter) | A Beautiful Fix

I was in a situation where I was walking completely by myself with nobody who knew me, so I was able to let go of all of these roles and identities and expectations that I had picked up over the years or had placed upon me over the years, and I was able to, to let all of that go and be me.

And what I found out is that's not very different, that I came home not feeling different, but more like myself, more in touch with, with me, my true nature 

Welcome to A Beautiful Fix. I'm Tracy Hill. Each week we'll dive into the latest thought gem, recharging and reconnecting with what lights you up and makes you feel alive. Let's discover your next beautiful fix together.

Hey, real quick before we dive in, you're powerful, and sometimes you just need someone to remind you what's already in you. That's what human design does. It's the difference between guessing and knowing. So you can stop searching outside yourself and start trusting the answers within. I promise you they're there.

Grab your free chart at abeautifulfix.com, and when you're ready to go deeper, book a one-to-one session with me. All right, let's get into the episode

Today's guest is Karen Richter, founder of Confident by Nature and returning guest on A Beautiful Fix. Karen helps people reconnect with themselves through nature, mindfulness, and intentional experiences that create clarity, confidence, and lasting transformation. After years of helping others navigate change professionally, she found herself drawn to a different kind of journey, one that led her to walk the Camino de Santiago.

Along the way, Karen discovered lessons about trust, slowing down, self-discovery, and the surprising peace that comes from simply putting one foot in front of the other. Today, she's passionate about helping other women experience those same life-changing insights, whether they're walking across Spain or simply learning to reconnect with themselves right where they are.

Karen is also an emotional generator like me with a 1/3 profile in human design. She's designed to trust what genuinely lights her up, allow time for emotional clarity before making important decisions, and learn through direct lived experience, a theme that feels especially fitting for someone whose greatest lessons came one step at a time on the Camino.

Karen, welcome back to A Beautiful Fix. So excited to be here. Thank you for asking me back. Karen, I'm so excited. I have been watching you creepily from, you know, social media, and, and I'm like, "I have been meaning to call you, catch up," and I'm like, "Let's do it on the podcast." So for those of you listening, Karen was my second guest on A Beautiful Fix, and she came on and talked to us about forest bathing.

It's one of my favorite episodes. And Karen and I met on the retreat that I did, um, in Teotihuacan, which is... Honestly, it's, it is my most listened to, my most downloaded episode today. Um, and when I met Karen in Teotihuacan, which was just such an amazing experience, that was the first time I heard about the Camino.

I had never heard of it before. One of the women there mentioned she had just finished walking the Camino, and I was like, "What is that?" And then I think someone else mentioned it, and since then, I have met so many people that have either walked it or thinking about walking it. So I thought I wanted to bring this conversation to A Beautiful Fix, 'cause I love introducing people to new things.

And so Karen, let's just take it back. For those who have never heard of this, what is the Camino? So the Camino de Santiago is a network of trails across Europe that have existed for a thousand years, more than a thousand years, and it was initiated as a Catholic pil- pilgrimage, um, in the year 900-something.

Uh, they discovered what they believe to be the bones of St. James, the apostle- Mm ... of Jesus Christ, and they, uh, created a cathedral around this burial spot. And pilgrims from across Europe would travel for, looking for miracles as they walked, and they would come walking across Europe to come to this, uh, place in northwestern Spain, which is, uh, Santiago, Santiago de Compostela.

And so over these thousand plus years, there's been an infrastructure that's been built. So it started out with churches, churches being built to give housing to these pilgrimages or pilgrims, to give food, uh, to support them along this very treacherous, dangerous journey. And that has, over the years, built up and there's now an infrastructure to support modern-day pilgrims, which sometimes are still doing it for a very religious reason, and often doing it for a more spiritual reason.

Uh, and even some people are just doing it for the, the exercise or the, the, the experience, the adventure. But it's, um, an opportunity. It took me... So there's a network, and there's different places you can start. It took me six weeks. I started in Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port in France, which is in the foothills of the Pyrenees Mountains, and I went up and over the Pyrenees and then across northern Spain, and that took me six weeks.

And there are... It's just this lovely experience of this path being supported by what are now often little villages, you know, that have grown up around the church that was built a thousand years ago. Uh, and sometimes you're going through some major cities, but with other pilgrims, you know, all walking in this westerly direction with their sights on Santiago Six weeks of straight walking, is that what we're saying?

Yes, every day. Uh, there, I had a couple of what we call rest days, um, where I was in a larger city and chose to stay an extra day and just did some sightseeing. Uh, but for the most part, it was walking every, s- every single day. Okay. So I'm just gonna forget about my notes, 'cause there's just so much I want to...

Just hearing you, I, I didn't realize that that was the background of it. Um, I always wondered what drew people to do this, and I think you're right, just from the people that I've met. I think it is so many different reasons. I always thought of it being kind of a spiritual thing of people going to have that kind of time to think and challenge themselves, because my understand...

Is it 500 miles, or is, does it depend the path you take? Yeah, it depends on which path you take. The one that I did, which is the Camino Francés, starting in France, uh, is the most popular. Okay. So if you've ever seen, uh, the movie The Way with Martin Sheen and Emilio Estevez, um, that's the path that they walked in that movie.

And that one is about 500 miles. And I have heard that it's brutal. Like, I've heard that even, even, doesn't even matter if, if you are an athletic person and you do this all the time, that there are blisters involved, and bleeding, and changing of shoes. And is, was that true for you? Not one blister. What?

Not one. So I think some people are more prone to blisters than others. Okay. But I also was very proactive, and I would stop every few hours and put my feet up and take my shoes off and, uh, put on dry socks, air my feet out a little bit. Uh, and I didn't get any blisters. Okay. And the reason I was so careful is because blisters is probably one of the number one reasons why people are not able to complete their, their journey, because their blisters just get so bad.

Yes. And I, I didn't want that to happen. Okay. Quick side note. I have to ask what kind of shoes you had on, because I've recently started just walking six, seven miles in my neighborhood and, um, the left side of my foot is starting to hurt. Not on the bottom, but j- it's almost like my shoe's ... like something's rubbing.

Hmm. But I thought about you and thought, "Well, what kind of shoes was Karen wearing?" So I wore, uh, trail runners. Okay. Uh, Altra Lone Peaks, which are, um, I guess you'd call them minimalist shoes. They're not barefoot shoes, but they're minimalist. Zero drop. Yes. Um, so ... And I have been wearing them for years, so they're very comfortable to me, and I'm a big believer in barefoot or minimalist shoes because I think one of the reasons I didn't have problems with my feet and my ankles is because my feet and ankles are so strong because they're not being supported by these more cushiony, structured sneakers or boots.

Um- But I also would say that's not something to start the day before you do the Camino. Like, you need to get used to wearing that kind of a shoe. But I've heard... 'Cause I have the big Hokas, which are so comfortable when you first put them on, but for the six, seven miles, I've learned that the zero drop, not having all that cushion, is actually better.

S- anyway, it's a whole nother episode. Yeah. But, so that's, that's very interesting. So, all right, so Karen, the other thing that I'm starting to hear, and I think this was true for you as well, is that people don't do this amazing journey just once. They tend to go back several times. It... Do I have that right?

Have you done it a second time already? So I didn't walk it a second time. I went back this spring, uh, to volunteer at- Okay ... the albergue, which an albergue is like a, a hostel, one of the accommodation types. Um, and I stayed there in France the night before I started my Camino, you know, a little over a year ago.

So I went back this spring to volunteer there for, uh, a month, and it's interesting because it was so fun to meet all these different pilgrims as they're starting or finishing their journey. Um, but one woman told a story as she's introducing herself, and she said, "You know, everybody said that I would wanna do it again, and the whole time I was walking it, I was like, 'I'm enjoying this, but I'm never doing this again.

Never.' And then I got home and I said, 'I am never doing that again. Like, I'm proud of myself for doing it, but I am never doing that again.'" And she said, "And here I am, ready to start-" Doing it again ... "my second Camino." She said, "It just-" Why? ... pulls you. It draws you. It's an experience. I get chills just thinking about it.

It's an experience like no other. Um, and it's different for every person, and I, what I'm hearing from people who've done it multiple times is it's different for them each time. Yes. It's whatever they need in that moment. That's exactly right. You're not the same person. You're not walking with the same people.

Your life situation has changed. So Karen, why did you do it? What, what drew you to the Camino? And that, I get asked that a lot, and it's hard for me to answer. Um, I will say it probably started in my childhood with... You know, I grew up on the East Coast, so I had always wanted to through-hike the Appalachian Trail, which is much more, um, rugged, and, uh, it's hiking and camping.

And life got in the way, and now I just... And it's also much longer, so I was thinking, you know, I, I, I'm not up for a six-month backpacking experience. And then I heard about the Camino, and I thought, "This is fabulous." Like, you, you get to hike and walk every day, but then you can choose to be in a bed and to have dinner brought to you.

Um, that sounds more palatable. And, uh, so I, I did it. And so when people say, "But why?" I'm like, "I don't really know." I just had this, this calling that I wanted to do it. I just thought it sounded interesting and wanted to see what it was all about, and I didn't go with any real expectations, but I just felt drawn.

Okay, so I'm getting chills because in your human design, there are a couple of things. You are... And I've only looked at your chart for a few minutes before I hopped on, but you are a generator like me, and with generators, we're simply built to respond, to let life come to us, and then we trust that we c- we, we trust the response that we have to it.

So it's not about chasing or forcing. And when you tell that story about the Camino and what led you there, it called to you. It was literally life brought it, and you responded like, "That sounds interesting." That's, that's exactly how it's supposed to work. But your profile is you are a 1/3, and 1/3s are meant to learn through lived experience.

It's not the same as, you know, textbook and hearing from others. Like, you as a 1/3, you have to get out there and do it yourself, and you can't fail as a 1/3. You're either learning... You're either, you're either winning or you're learning. There's no, there's no, there's no failure. And through your lived experience, then you come back and teach others and, um, and, and others benefit from your lived experience.

So when you think about the Camino, it's literally like your human design coming to life. Well, and that gives me the chills because I am not super familiar with my human design, so this is new information, but it just ties in so neatly with the experience that I had. Because the two things that I really took away from the Camino, and I will say it's been over a year, and I think I'm still integrating the experience and the lessons that I learned.

But one of them was trust, and that's a word I use now all the time, about I learned to trust the universe, whatever you wanna call it, uh To, th- there's a saying on the Camino, "The Camino will provide," and that just sort of is that, that trusting that whatev- whatever happens next, whatever I come across today, like you said, there's a, there's a reason, there's a learning, there's an opportunity, and just trust that.

Maybe it's not what you expected today, but, but trust that it's all happening for a reason. I learned to trust the people around me, because it's an amazing community that is wanting to experience this, and there's, there's, um, everyone's equal. Mm. Everyone... There's, there's sayings about, you know, the sun shines just as hot on everyone on the Camino.

The rain falls just as wet on everyone on the Camino. So, and, and we are all helping each other. If there's someone with blisters, there's someone else handing out, uh, plasters is what's coming to mind. That's the British word. Um, Band-Aids. Um- And then I also came to trust myself and to trust my body, my physical body, first of all, and I'm not in the greatest of shape, and I was...

my body was capable of doing this, and I was just so impressed with my body, and I, I trusted my ability to problem solve and my ability to, to navigate and decide what was important that day. So there was a lot of trust. And the second piece is, you know, people said, "Oh..." Before I went, people said, "Oh, you're gonna come back s- such, such a changed person.

You're gonna be so different." And then when I came back, everybody said, "So how, how are you different now?" And I, I thought about that for a long time, and then I realized I was in a situation where I was walking completely by myself with nobody who knew me, so I was able to let go of all of these roles and identities and expectations that I had picked up over the years or had placed upon me over the years, and I was able to, to let all of that go and be me.

And what I found out is that's not very different, that I came home not feeling different, but more like myself, more in touch with, with me, my true nature And when you returned, did your family notice a difference in you?

Yes, but probably more than my family would be people who I know a little less well. And they, they did say, you know, "You have a, a calmness now," and, uh, which I've always had a calm demeanor, but it's a serene, trusting

It gives me chills because from what I understand, and please correct me, is that when you walk the Camino, you have a couple of options. You can carry everything, like, on your back, everything that you're gonna need, and then you walk to the point where you get to, I guess, a little town. That may not be the correct term.

And you can choose to spend the night there or eat, or you can have people take your backpack and kind of they'll go ahead of you, and then when you reach a set destination, your, your things are there. Which one did you do, or did you do a little bit of- I carried everything on my back. Okay. Um, that was my goal, and I also allowed myself grace if I wasn't capable of doing that.

Yes. If I found myself with blisters or my back hurts or whatever, I was going to... You know, there's some people who are real purists that say, you know, uh, "You're not really doing the Camino. You're not a true pilgrim if, you know, you're, you're not carrying everything on your back." And I said, "I'm not gonna fall into that trap."

Um- And I didn't need to have it transported ahead for me, because I was capable of it. And I found that I loved that experience of being totally self-sufficient, and that everything I need is right here with me. And, and I, I compare it to, you know, even if I, if it's chilly at home and I'm out at a restaurant, maybe I have a sweater but it's in the car and I need to go get my sweater, where with the Camino, everything I need is right with me all the time.

And that was such a unique experience, and I just, I just loved that. And it also helps you see you don't need that much to be sufficient and to be happy, and, you know, I don't need all these bells and whistles. So I really appreciated carrying everything myself. I also- For the most part, did not make reservations of where I was going to stay- Okay

until the day before maybe, or maybe even the day I walk into town. Um, I was concerned about being tied to I have to walk this far to get to the next place. Or what if I get to that next place and I'm feeling fantastic, and I wanna go- Yes ... somewhere farther. Or what if I am walking along and there's this adorable little village, and y- sometimes it's a town, sometimes it's a village, sometimes it's a city, sometimes it's one building.

Um, but what if it's, it's so adorable and I wanna stay and check it out? Um, so I didn't wanna be tied to reservations anywhere. And how did that work out for you? 'Cause I've heard that if you don't do the reservations, you might get to the point where you see a town coming up, and you stop, and they're like, "Sorry, we just don't have any more beds for tonight."

So did it just kinda work out for you, where the place you decided to stop had a place for you to s- sleep? I've heard a lot of stories of people having problems finding. Uh, I did not at all. Karen. Now, there's a, there's a couple of things that I think played into that. Okay. One is- It, it's become a bit touristy over the years, and there's plenty of books that you can buy that say, you know, "Here's the guide."

And so they have what, what they're calling stages. So, you know, you wanna go from this stage to this stage. You wanna go from town A to town B. So most of the people are following that guidance and staying in town B. I chose to stay in town C, uh, D. You know, like

And then I did reserve ahead of time at the very end. It, it does get a bit more crowded. Um, there's some rules about it. There's a beautiful certificate that you get that shows that you've walked the Camino, but you have to have walked, um, 100 kilometers to qualify for that. And I think they've changed it this year, but it used to be you had to walk the final 100 kilometers.

So there's a city called Sarria, and a lot of people would start in Sarria and just walk the last 100 kilometers.

You're cheating yourself I would agree, and everyone's Camino is their own, and they can all do however they want. Um, but that does make it much more crowded at the end, and so I did make reservations then. So Karen, can you help us understand what it was like? Were you walking alone? 'Cause I thought originally your husband was gonna try to join you, or a niece came in for a little pe- Like, were you walking in silence thinking your thoughts?

Were you meeting people and walking with them? Yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes. Okay. Um, my husband originally, w- it's interesting, he didn't want to walk it at all. Okay. And then I had him watch the movie The Way, and he said, "Oh my goodness, this is so cool." And he started calling... His, his family is origin- is from Spain.

His mother's the only one who came to the United States. Um, so, so he's fluent in Spanish. Uh, he's comfortable in Spain. He's calling his relatives in Spain, he's calling his family in the US, he's calling our friends from wherever and saying, "We all have to get together and walk this Camino. Like, this is gonna be amazing."

Turns out he had a job situation that wouldn't allow him to take more than two weeks. So he came for the first two weeks, and then my niece from LA did come and overlap with him a little bit, and then was able to stay about a week. So there was- Probably two weeks and two days where I was starting off with other people, and I look back on that and it was a wonderful way to start- Yes

because I had the support of someone, even though they knew less about the Camino than I did. It's just somebody to giggle with and say, like, "Now what do we do?" And- Yeah ... "What's the etiquette here?" And, you know, "Do we just pick a bed or do we," you know- Yes ... "What, what do we do?" And then by the time they left, um, I had fallen into the routine, I had figured it out.

I had figured out what my body could handle, and so better estimation of how far I'd go the next day. Um, and then I walked the rest of it by myself. But there's another saying on the Camino that says, "You never are truly alone on a Camino." And you can choose to walk with, with another group that stays together all day.

Uh, I enjoyed walking by myself, but I did develop what's called a Camino family. You know, we, we... After a week or two, you realize you're seeing the same faces over and over, and you're walking the same pace. Um, and so I enjoyed catching up with them and, um, stopping and having lunch with them, and then maybe talking about where you're gonna stay tonight, and then walking alone in the afternoon until we got to the place where we were gonna stay that night.

And so it was a nice mix of walking on my own, but also having a, a family around me nearby. And they say, you know, "You're never truly alone," and it's true because you could see for miles, and there's nobody in front of you, there's nobody behind you, and it's just you and nature, which of course as a- Yes

certified forest bathing person- ... um, was amazing. But if you chose to stop and sit on a rock under a tree for a little while, it would probably be 10 or 15 minutes before somebody else comes walking by. Like, you were never really desolate alone. See, I was picturing just so many people walking this with you.

Whether you were walking by yourself or not, I just pictured it being just droves of people, or at least, you know, a good amount of people walk. But you actually had stretches where you did not see anyone in front of you or behind you, it was just you? Wow. And that, I, I chose that. So if there was a big group that's walking kind of my pace, and I was not wanting to walk with them, I would choose to s- to sit on a rock and let them get far enough ahead so that I could have my, my quiet time again.

Um That is the most introverted thing I've ever heard, and I love it. I'm here for it. I do introverted driving. I take all the back roads. I would absolutely do exactly- Yeah ... I would do introverted walking. But it's the perfect combination because then if it does start to feel a little bit lonely- Yeah

then you just stop at a, they're called bars, but they're not like our US bars, but they're little cafes. Um, and you wait for other people to show up, and then you can have some sim- interaction with people. So you've got- Yeah ... the best of both worlds The both worlds. And what was the terrain like? You mentioned when you first started us off, I think you said mountains.

I think you said- Yes ... you went over some mountains. So I, again- But- ... I pictured it just flat, just like prairie. I don't know why, but you're, you're saying you were going over mountains? So it s- started out going up and over the Pyrenees Mountains in France and into Spain. Uh, very wooded, very rocky. Um, definitely hiking.

And then there were long, long stretches of like prairie. Um, there were also stretches, and this is a surprise to a lot of people, that it's walking on sidewalks. So you're not always... It's not, I don't call it a hike. There were a couple of days where we were hiking, but for the most part, it's a walk, and it might be on a dirt road, it might be on a sidewalk.

Um, when you're going in and out of cities, you're on, you know, walking next to highways and, uh, getting into the city, and then you're walking around the, the streets of the city. Um, so the terrain was very varied. There was another set of mountains, uh, h- little more than halfway through. Uh, and then you're in a different part of Spain.

So there's a, a part called the Meseta, which is very flat, very agricultural. It's a lot of what you've seen pictures of probably, of just this little trail that just keeps going and going and going into the distance. Unfortunately, a lot of people skip that section because they say it's boring, um, and that it's, that's where you, a lot of people say you struggle with- The getting inside of your head.

Like, it's a very mental walk because for days and days you're not seeing the landscape change. It's just you and it's quiet. Um, and they say it's very mentally challenging. I found it to be one of the most beautiful places because along with these agricultural fields, you've got 900 years' worth of people planting flowers along the path.

And there's... So now it's just wildflowers of just beautiful, amazing flowers and butterflies. Um, it was stunning. It was stunning. And then western Spain is very green, very lush. So you've just left this arid, dry, hot, there's no shade, you're walking, you know, with no trees for over a week, but then you go up into the mountains and then you're in this lush, green, very vibrant area.

So it's, it's fun. It keeps changing. What did you do with all your thoughts? Because I can only imagine you're experiencing all of this, and we're so used to turning to the person next to us and, for me at least, you know, when I experience something, I wanna tell someone. So what did you do with all of that?

Did you start talking to yourself? Were you taking notes? Were you journaling? Like, what did you do with all of that? Um, probably not talking to myself out loud. Okay. But having conversations in my head and, and acknowledging things, recognizing what I'm experiencing. And then that's probably why I enjoyed reconnecting with people at the end of the day.

So there'd always be a, a nice cold drink and some Spanish food and some friends and, and you're all sort of comparing notes of how did your day go? What, what did you experience? What did you see? And so that was a great way to process what I was experiencing. Did you have to train for this? If I signed up and said, "Next week I'm going," do you, or do you have to, it's like, was it like a marathon where you have to kinda train I am a walker to begin with, so I had some training in me anyway.

Yes. But as I said, I'm not in great shape. Uh, I probably would have done better if I had been in shape. I think all sorts of people with sorts, all sorts of abilities are able to do this and, and if you're not trained for it, then you just don't walk as quickly or you don't walk as far. I would say the most important training, which I did do a little bit of, was having a, a pack on my back.

So that's hard to get used to. Um, and I'm, I'm a walker, I'm a hiker, but I'm a typical, you know, one day on the weekend, and I could go 10 miles, which sounds good, but could I do 10 miles every single day? Like, that's when it gets to be different to, and your body gets tired of, "We're doing this again?" Yeah.

Right. Did you ever get to the point where you're like, "Why did I do this?" Like, "I maybe made a mistake." No. No. I, as I was getting close to the end, I found myself getting very sad Mm. Like, I don't want this to be over. I don't wanna go back to real life. I

And that's probably one of the reasons why I went back and volunteered. Yes. And why I am thinking of ways to support women who are also interested in doing this. Um, and what I'm excited about... W- when I went a year ago, I had in the back of my head, you know, would this be a good retreat to take women on?

Like, I'd love to do this. And as I was doing it, I was like, "No way. This is too... The logistics and the everybody has a different expectation, and walk at different speeds, and are, have different capabilities, and I, I don't wanna get... I don't wanna do it." Since I've been home, and I've talked to more and more women who say, "I love that you did it on your own, and I would love to do that, but I'm afraid.

I don't know how to start. I don't know what to do." And I started thinking about those are the women I want to help. Because when I started researching, like, what, what programs are out there to help people who want to do this? And often what you find are lovely trips, but they're not what I experienced or what I want others to experience if it's what they wanna do.

You know, it would do more of what we talked about before. Um, have your baggage transported. Um, have every single night planned out. Um, you're gonna... Where you're gonna eat dinner is planned. Um, maybe there's the shuttle bus that's taking your luggage from one place to the other can also take you if you want to not walk that day, and it's very cushy.

Sounds absolutely lovely, but I want to help the woman who says, "No, I want to push myself a little bit, stretch myself a little bit, see what I like, try new things, travel differently, but I'm just afraid to get started." And so I want to do some coaching ahead of time, some prep, getting them... Answering a lot of your questions, and what do we do to prepare, and what do we...

How do we pack, and how do we do this? And then similar to my experience where I said it was so fun to have my husband and my niece with me at the beginning, we could have this group of women, for the start of it, work together, walk together. Um, I could be helping them see, giving them tips and tricks for how to do this on their own.

And then after five nights, now they're comfortable to continue going, and they're not tied to a program that I put together. So some women may say, "I'm loving this gritty pilgrimage. I want to sleep in the rooms with all the other pilgrims, and I wanna have a communal com- um, dinner with the other pilgrims."

And you might have someone else who said, "Okay, I tried that, and, and I would prefer to have a smaller room and just have dinner one-on-one with somebody." Um, what I found is a lot of us like to do a little of all of it. Like, "Yeah, I like the, the, the pilgrim experience, but maybe once a week I'd like to stop and, and go to a real hotel and have a private shower and a, a laundromat instead of washing my clothes by hand."

Uh, so this gives the, these women the freedom to, to continue on however they would like. And then there would be coaching afterwards to help with the integration, 'cause I said that was one of the hardest things for me, is so, so now what do you do with this experience? Yes. How do you allow this to, to seep into your every day?

And not just become a memory, something you did, but to live with you and to... Yes. Yeah. Karen, you have to do- And- ... this retreat. You ha- that is like- Well, I'm- No. Go ahead, no ... I'm looking at, uh, 2028. Yes. So I'm gonna start telling people about it now so they'll have o- over, over a year to plan for it. Uh, but it's, it's an amazing experience.

It's such a good idea- And- ... because I think you've hit on something. There's some people that are gonna be hearing about this for the very first time. They didn't even know this was a thing, and they might feel a little intrigued, especially the generators out there. They might be responding like, "Oh, there's something to that."

But s- for some, the idea of, I know some women who don't even like to travel alone period. Um- Yeah ... I don't mind that. But the, there's so much to that that is unknown that I think could make a lot of people pause, especially different ages. I remember the woman who did it who we met at Teotihuacan, she was, I can't remember h- her age, but she was 60s, 70s maybe.

I'm assuming you, there are all ages that you see there? I saw a gentleman from Texas, 92 years old, walking the entire Camino by himself Come on, Karen. W- what- 92 Do you know what his timeframe was? You did it in six weeks. Uh, do you know how long he had been walking or how long he was planning to walk his pace?

Well, I f- I met up with him at the very beginning. Okay. Um, so he hadn't been walking a long time. Um, but I think he was taking it slow. He was probably at least eight weeks planning to, to go across. He had done it before, so he knew what he was getting into. Okay. Um, and it's, it's just so interesting. You know, it was weeks later and there was people still talking about, "Did you meet that guy from Texas?"

"Yeah, that 92-year-old." So there were a lot of 70s and 80s-year-old people. Uh, and then there were young families with babies. Um, not as many of those. I'd say there's a lot more older people than, than babies, but they're all ages. Did you experience any health, um, ch- not challenges, changes? Like, did you ... After walking that long, for six weeks, did you notice anything different about your body or your health?

Definitely in better shape. Yes. Um, more, more capable, you know, good cardio, um, stronger legs. Uh, it just felt really good. Felt very strong, very young, very alive. Yes. And so Karen, um, my, my final question would be, when you started off, you were going there, you were drawn there for a particular reason, and then you experienced it.

Was it what you thought it would be, or was it ... Did it turn out being something completely differently than what you could have even imagined? So I went in with a very open slate, very... I didn't have any expectations. I didn't know what to expect. I didn't want to have any preconceived ideas. And so I, I told myself, "I just want to experience it.

I just wanna be open to the experience." So I can't say it was different than I expected, 'cause I didn't expect anything. Um, I do think it's had a stronger impact on me than I anticipated. You know, I tend to be a pretty grounded, not easily excitable, you know. And I thought this would be lovely, and I thought I would enjoy it, but I didn't realize how much it was going to I don't like using words like this, but changed my life, you know?

Like, it was... And actually not change. I, I... People said, "Was it a life-changing experience?" And I've changed the word to say it's a life-affirming experience. It just And, you know, I went both last year and this year. There's a lot of scary negative things happening in the world right now, and I, I, I didn't put my head in the sand and pretend that they, these things aren't happening.

But I was reminded that there's also a lot of beautiful things happening in the world around us. And I, I refer to who I was on the Camino as Camino Karen, and so I always try to, to bring Camino Karen back, and s- and she reminds me that there's a lot of beautiful in this world. It was... So it was a beautiful fix.

That's the whole- Yes ... that's the whole thing behind my business is, is just reminding people how beautiful this world is, and s- seeking those experiences to remind you. And, um, it's fun, it's funny that hearing you say the Camino Karen because, you know, from us doing Teotihuacan, I try to remember that Tracy, what she experienced, what she learned, the growth that I experienced, because it's easy to come back and let it go.

I still have my jaguar on my desk to remind me. So yeah, you, you wanna hold onto these things. But- Yes ... Karen, just in the interest of time, because I mean, I could go on for absolutely ever, but I li- literally love your idea of the retreat because what I was saying earlier is it's so much uncertainty that it might make some people pause, but the idea of being coached and going with someone who has done it before, and I love the idea that you're doing it where it's a little bit of both.

You, you have a, you have a little bit of a guide and reassurance, but it's also you get there, and after a while, you get to experience it on your own, 'cause I think that's important for that, that growth, for you to realize I'm doing this. So I just think that's, that's magical, and, um, I'm really looking forward to you doing that in 2028.

But before I move on to this, the last part of our, um, discussion, is there anything that we haven't covered about the Camino that you would love for listeners to hear?

It was kind of not the Camino. You know, the Camino was this amazing experience and, and I want to continue to have opportunities to, to walk on the Camino and help others find their way to the Camino. And this whole idea fits in perfectly with A Beautiful Fix, is it doesn't have to be that big of a deal to have some of these return to our true nature, a return to what truly matters.

And so that's what I also want to take the time to, to remind myself and remind others, that sometimes it can be very small things that we can do to, to get that same feeling that walking 500 miles across Spain can do. I love that. I think that's so key for people to hear, because I can only imagine people are listening to this thinking, "What a privilege to have six weeks or eight weeks or, you know, six months to be able to do this."

So I love that you're reminding people that this is one way, but it does not... A lot of times it is the little things, it's the little moments, it's the little decisions that we make in our everyday life that can also lead to something as beautiful as what you experienced. So thank you for saying that.

Yeah. So- Well, and one of the things that was- Yes ... unique about the Camino for me walking alone, was for the first time in forever I was making decisions based on what I wanted to do or what my body was looking for. I didn't have to make sure the whole group was happy. I didn't have to make sure, you know, how does everybody else feel about spending a little more time at this museum, or how do other people feel about skipping that church.

You know, like, to do th- And, and I think so many of us It, that's been a long time. And so that's a reminder to me that, you know, Camino Karen can step into- ... everyday life and make decisions based on me every once in a while. Yes. I love Camino Karen, and for everyone listening, you keep hearing me say this, I'm bringing selfish back for that exact reason, especially in this season of our life- Yes

where it finally can, if we choose, be about us a little bit, where we can make decisions, where we can put ourselves first, and give from that place. So I love that. Well, Karen, before we head into the speed round, I just wanna share a love note with you from a previous guest. It's just something that I've started doing, just, you know, spreading the, spreading the love around, and this one comes from Kim Waller, and she's an executive advisor, transformation strategist, and founder of Meridian Path Consulting Group.

So Kim's note for you is this: "Know your power to overcome and stay focused on whatever your why is. Your purpose is your driver. Don't be dissuaded by anything, any external noise, because it does all work out in the end. Just stay on your path." What comes up for you when you hear that? I got the chills.

"Stay on your path." Yes. Yes. So- I mean, you can't make this stuff up ... Camino. Yes. And it, so you didn't choose this based on the topic we were gonna have today? No, at the end- Just ... I always ask whoever I, the guest is, if they have a little love note for the next person. They have no idea who it's going to be.

Well, it, it's so fitting because that's, you know, s- a reminder. It's a message that I got from the Camino about just staying focused and trust, trusting that this is happening for a reason, and maybe it's not what you expected, but just stay on your path and be true to, to yourself. It's beautiful. Well, Karen, what makes you come alive?

Uh, being outdoors for sure, and what I've since realized or recently realized that it's new things in nature, exploring new places Seeing different things, variety There's so much to see. How about a song that instantly shifts your energy or makes you feel something? I would say almost every song. Okay.

I'm very, uh, impacted by music. But what popped into my head is, um, the Out of Africa soundtrack. Ah. And part of it's because the movie was so beautiful, and part of it is because I'd listened to that nonstop almost when I was pregnant with my first child, and I am one of the blessed people who felt fantastic when I was pregnant.

And so it was just such a lovely, miraculous time of my life, and so that music just brings back those feelings of amazement. Thank you for sharing that. And I mean, you, you gotta love Meryl Streep, but I am such a soundtrack, um, person. I love, especially musical scores, it's just one of my favorite things.

When I'm driving around I will just have the most dramatic music playing. Yeah. And it's, it's just my favorite thing. But how about a book that cracked you open or stayed with you long after the last page? So I don't, I'm not at the last page yet because I am listening to the Outlander series, and I have just loved it, loved it, loved it.

I love that time period. I have ties to Scotland. Uh, I have ties... You know, it was interesting, some of it takes place during the American Revolution, so here we are celebrating 250 years. It w- it's just got-

It's got my attention for sure I love that series so much. Um, but I had to stop because there was the villain... Well, there was just a scene in there that I just could not, and I thought, "Is it gonna, maybe it's gonna get better." But, but it was excellent up until that point. I don't remember how far I got into it, but it's just an amazing story, but it's also a little bit of my worst fear unlocked.

The idea of stepping through a portal and I step back in time is kind of terrifying to me, but- I think you should pick it back up at some point Do you, it- I'm, I'm guessing the s- the scene and- Mm ... there, there's not a whole lot of that. Okay. That, that's what I th- I think I'm going to. I think I am. Um, your favorite little indulgence or guilty pleasure

Can I say that Camino Karen doesn't feel guilty about things anymore?

I love Camino Karen. Really? Yeah. Life is meant to be enjoyed, so Okay. Well, what's your little indulgence that we're not feeling guilty about? Taking time for myself outside in nature, whether it's a walk or kayaking or just stepping out on the front porch and breathing in the spring rain. Like, they're all so worth doing.

Well, what's one thing that always reminds you how beautiful life really is?

It's a tie between babies, in particular my kids when they're babies, but more timely is the awesome things that I see in nature. You know? To s- to see a beautiful sunset or to see dolphins swimming along the coast or just these things that take your breath away and are just awesome right there with you.

Karen, how can people stay connected with you and learn abo- learn more about your work and know about when you release that 2028 Camino retreat? So I'm looking at my screen here and realize that my full company name didn't get typed in. So it's Confident by Nature. So confidentbynature.com is my website, and I would love, um...

I have coming up soon, starting maybe in the next week or two, what I'm calling Weekly Whispers, and it's, uh, what we were talking about, that, you know, it doesn't have to be a big deal to find something to bring us back to center, to bring us back to our, our true natures, return home. Uh, and so, uh, once a week, I'll be sending out just a little whisper reminding people what they could do.

It, it might be a, a quick little practice or it could be a question or a little experiment. Um, I'd love for people to, to take, take that opportunity, or to come join me. I do forest bathing, but as you know, I can do it, um, virtually and lead people from wherever they are. So that would be fun for people to sign up for, uh, for a virtual forest bathing experience.

Do it. Do it. I absolutely love it. You think, "How can you do that virtually?" But you do it so well, and even if you're in a familiar space, it just becomes this new magical place because of the invitations that you share and, and you're looking at it with fresh eyes. So I highly recommend people do that, and we'll, we'll put everything in the show notes.

Um- And I would love to give a, um, a coupon code for you to include in the show notes- Yay ... where people could do one of those for free. My gift for people to come and join on a, on a virtual experience. Oh my, Karen. Thank you so much. That is so generous. I'm t- guys, please take her up on this. It is a beautiful, beautiful experience.

Whether you are doing this in your backyard or you go to a local park or whatever, definitely do that. Well, Karen, thank you so much for coming back to A Beautiful Fix and for taking us on this beautiful journey with you. And to everyone listening, whether you ever walk the Camino, I hope today's conversation just reminds you that sometimes the most important step isn't the next mile, it's simply trusting yourself enough to take the next step.

So until next time, keep getting high on life one beautiful fix at a time. Thank you, Karen. Thank you.

Thanks for listening to A Beautiful Fix. If you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to subscribe and leave a quick review to help others find us. And if you'd like to share your own beautiful fix or join me as a guest, reach out anytime at tracy@abeautifulfix.com. Looking forward to next time