Manhood Matters Podcast
Conversations around challenges dominating a man's journey through life. These topics are explored by real, everyday friends, with a lot of experience... And we have the occasional expert guest.
Manhood Matters Podcast
Challenging Stereotypes: A Journey Through Sports, Family, and Society
Imagine navigating a world where assumptions follow you at every turn, often reducing your identity to a handful of stereotypes. Drawing from personal stories of being pigeonholed as "naturally athletic" or perceived as a threat, we unravel how these stereotypes are deeply rooted in history, particularly the era of slavery, and continue to cast a long shadow over the Black community today. Our discussion sheds light on the insidious nature of these stereotypes and explores actionable steps we can take to dismantle them.
The narrative then shifts to the arena of sports and intellect, particularly in the realm of the NFL. Despite a significant presence of Black players, the lack of Black coaches stands as a stark reminder of enduring stereotypes that question both physical and intellectual capabilities. We highlight trailblazers like Myron Rolle and Shaquille O'Neal, whose multifaceted talents defy narrow expectations, while also addressing stereotypes such as the "angry black woman" that often overshadow individual achievements. By celebrating the resilience and strength of Black women, we aim to challenge these pervasive narratives.
Finally, we confront the stereotype of absentee Black fathers and the systemic issues that have fueled these misconceptions. By dissecting the myths with data and personal anecdotes, we emphasize the importance of family unity for societal prosperity. With insights from thought leaders such as Dr. George C. Frazier and Nikki Giovanni, we explore the crucial link between family stability and economic success. Our episode wraps up with a heartfelt thank you to our listeners, encouraging a community dialogue that fosters understanding and change.
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Host: StéphaneAlexandre
IG: @stephanealexandreofficial
Music by Liam Weisner
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I show up at the park. When I was a kid and they're going to play basketball and white kids want to pick me. I'm like no, no, you're making a mistake.
Speaker 3:I promise you you want to pick Tyler first. You're not going to do that. I'm not that guy, you know. Because I don't want to disappoint you, I don't want you guys to get mad at me because you think you're counting on this guy.
Speaker 1:You know I'm not going to be that dude, You're just going to be the token right, token, exactly. No matter the culture, there's always going to be a stereotype associated to that culture. In this episode, we try our hand at debunking some of the stereotypes that plague the black community. Some are funny, some not so funny, some ignorant, some plain hateful. Welcome to Manhood Matters, where we have the experience to have impactful conversations with real people. Real talk. Let's get to it. It what's up, fellas, what's up, what's up, what's up? We got a super interesting one today.
Speaker 2:This should be fun as hell. We're gonna talk about black stereotypes oh, how they came to be.
Speaker 1:No such thing. How they came to be, um, how, if at all, they are harmful and if there's anything we can do about it. We talked about this in the last podcast. You know, about each person doing whatever they can do how, maybe, we dispel some of these things. I've got a few here, by the way. I can't cover them all because there are so many. I just picked like six and I was like that should be enough to keep us busy for a little while. Right, what's the one you love to hate the most, willie?
Speaker 5:Man, the one that you know. Black men don't take care of their children.
Speaker 1:So that's actually on here. We're going to talk about that, so we're not going to discuss it right now.
Speaker 5:That's actually on here. Okay, all right. Well, that's what my mind is at.
Speaker 1:Jabari, which one do you hate, to love, to hate the most?
Speaker 4:Probably that we're thugs. Right the clutching of the purse when you get in the elevator.
Speaker 1:But if only she would let it go. Why she gotta hold it so tight? Why she holding it so tight?
Speaker 5:I'm trying to grab it Like just let it go.
Speaker 4:This way you don't have to Keep playing tug of war. What are we doing? It's really. That's why I hate it. You know I'm gonna get it.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to be funny Every time I get in the elevator and I see that I go. Ah, you got me.
Speaker 1:Almost.
Speaker 3:I almost had a victim.
Speaker 1:There was one time where it normally doesn't bother me because you get so used to it. You know it's fucked up, but it's like you become desensitized. It's always offensive but it's whatever right. But I'm at work. I forgot what I was, that I needed, but I was running to like Kroger or whatever right. So oh notice, I didn't say Kroger's.
Speaker 1:So I was running to Kroger and you know I'm I'm dressed professionally, I got a suit on and I'm walking into, you know, and into the store, and this lady was in front of me she's about 10 feet ahead of me and she heard me walking fast. She looked back, she saw me and she started clutching it. I'm like in the Kroger parking lot, the guy with the suit that's what you worried about. I was like oh man, it never fails. So the first one I have on here black people are naturally athletic.
Speaker 4:Well, there's a reason behind that.
Speaker 1:What's your reason behind that, Jabari? So first of all, can we talk about where it comes from. Is that what you're going?
Speaker 4:to say yeah. Slavery.
Speaker 1:I mean, mean it all boils down?
Speaker 4:to slavery. So you're basically saying we were in the gym for 400 years. Pretty much, think about, think about this way. Okay, we were shipped from africa to america, right? Not everybody made it, only the what was like a third only a third survived only the strongest survived, so you had to be strong just to make it here in the first place. And it's not like when we got here we had office jobs right, we didn't work on the inside.
Speaker 4:No, no, no, no we weren't in the house, right, so we had manual labor jobs. So, once again, the strongest were bred to make other, stronger slaves. Right, because you want to return on your investment. Right, because that's how it was looked. We weren't people, we were property that's right good point for hundreds of years, right? So if that's trying to think of the best way, to say this say it, man let's do it.
Speaker 4:So I mean that's. I mean, if we're being real about it. That's what happened, right? The stronger survive, the stronger we're bred to be, stronger until we were no longer property anymore. Then we were people, or two-thirds of a person, three-fifths, three-fifths of a person. I'm sorry, right. So then it's like okay, now we're start to do physical things for fun and entertainment, and then now we're better than others for some strange, unknown reason. Well, I think we all know.
Speaker 1:What the reason is is whether or not you want to admit it to yourself and I think some people hear that and immediately they go to some of the arguments that some idiots made how slavery made us better as a people right because that's the argument that some people have run away like thank god for slavery, look how much better you guys are off because of it.
Speaker 4:I mean better off physically, not better off mentally educationally, psychologically, emotionally spiritually correct.
Speaker 2:We can stop there yeah yeah, yeah, exactly so what do you?
Speaker 1:think so. We talked about the origin of this right. I mean, I have a couple of facts here. I mean some of those things that they go back to, you know, black dominance in sports going all the way back to 1936 with Jesse Owens.
Speaker 4:What's the extra leg muscle? Sorry, we have an extra leg muscle. Oh, that's funny, you haven't heard that one. No, really yeah.
Speaker 1:I've not.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, See, that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:There's so many things that you know, I haven't heard and I'll explain why in a second, but like you know the whole point of the Aryan nation, the Nazis were trying to prove that they are the superior race intellectually physically and everything else.
Speaker 1:And then, of course, jesse Owens shows up, gets four gold medals in front of Hitler and pisses him off. But they couldn't negate the fact that this happened. It's right here, it happened. So now they have to flip it and go. Well, it's because they are superior in that sense, only Right, but what harm does that cause?
Speaker 2:I would say, harking back to our previous conversations, that shut up and dribble. I think that's associated with that. You're good at being physical and jumping and running. Don't do anything else. You don't have the capacity to talk on anything. You know you. That's where I believe there's some harm. It's like you're so good at this that I can't see you doing anything else.
Speaker 1:So that's what you are and that's your job, that's your function in life, as that's your contribution to society.
Speaker 2:Give us entertainment, shut up and travel exactly that entertainment make us laugh or make us go, oh, or you know, but no, nothing more than that so it reduces black people to just physical attributes I would agree.
Speaker 2:I'll take it a step further. Not seen as a human being. Honestly, I do believe it goes that far to only see you for what you do and that's the only thing that you are. It's a lot further than that it's like. So you are a thing. You are not a person who is good at something. You are a thing. So that's how I feel.
Speaker 1:So something, for example, that came to my attention. I was looking at this stat the other day, when it comes to the physical attribute versus the intellectual capacity, right? So you look at the NFL, it is 71% black, but I think it's 32. How many coaches? How many black coaches? No, you can't look it up.
Speaker 5:I want to google you as of today.
Speaker 2:I think, it's as of today, I think it's two okay, jabari.
Speaker 1:I three sounds good yeah, yeah, you guys are dead on it's three. Okay, it's three. I thought someone got fired.
Speaker 2:That's why I was like you know Seriously, Because there's been some fires in the past couple of weeks and I'm like eh.
Speaker 1:And that says a lot. And when I did watch some football, I remember at some point I would watch football and I remember not seeing black quarterbacks. It that's a strategist and you didn't see too many, you know.
Speaker 4:And then it started becoming more and more popular and you know what else and I didn't realize because I didn't know a lot about football growing up. The d line and the o line the d lines are typically black and the o lines are typically white because you had to be smart enough to protect your quarterback so for not everybody on here is a sports fan so d D-line is defensive always offensive, defensive versus offensive. So if you look back in the day, o-line was always white, d-line was always black.
Speaker 1:Yeah, interesting man, check that out. So the truth about it is obviously athletic abilities. Everything you guys are saying is dead on. But athleticism is determined by genetics, environment, support, training. There's a whole lot that goes into it. So it's not just you're black, you're going to be a good athlete. I can't tell you how many times I've showed up at the park when I was a kid. And they're going to play basketball and white kids want to pick me. I'm like no, no, you're making a mistake, I promise you.
Speaker 3:You want to pick Tyler first. You don't want to do that. I'm not that guy. You know. Because I don't want to disappoint you, I don't want you guys to get mad at me because you think you're counting on this guy.
Speaker 5:You know I'm not going to be that dude, You're just going to be the token, right Token exactly how do we dispel the stereotype that, first of all we want to dispel it?
Speaker 2:do we want to be like, well, that's not the case.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we're not gonna go out and start tanking games, just I need to just slow down for the culture, but it's not so much that so to me so to me, like one of the great examples is you have a guy like um, have you guys heard of myron Roll?
Speaker 1:Myron Roll NFL player. Oh no, he turned neurosurgeon oh yeah, I did hear about him. So he's one of those guys that you know. We look at that. The guy was an athlete and post-sports this is what he becomes. He's always had the intellectual capacity right. Obviously, he decided to not nurture that and to get to the next level. But you know who I respect a lot and people don't talk about enough when it comes to an athlete, is Shaquille O'Neal. I was just thinking that Dr Shaquille.
Speaker 1:O'Neal Cause, you got to think about it, man, that brother. I remember one story that I heard um, they were interviewing him and he was saying that he sat around and he was on in these meetings and all these guys were talking. His manager was there and he wasn't part of the conversation. He was like no, no, no, you just be big and dunk the ball. That's kind of your job. And he hated that. And he said well, he felt like he didn't know enough about business, so he went and wanted to go get his master's. He wanted to go get his MBA. But when he went they were like well, we don't have the program right now. You need at least 12 people before he can, since it wasn't like the season or whatever it was. But he needed to at least have 12 people in the class and it was just him. So he went and got 12 friends and he said I'll pay for you guys to get your MBAs. You just come with me. How amazing is that story.
Speaker 2:And he just keeps getting better and better and better as a human being.
Speaker 1:As a business owner, he had like 155, like five guys sold that business. He had a great exit, you know. So you look at the intellectual capacity, you look at the education. It's obviously there and to me I think the harm that this particular stereotype does, it minimizes that and it doesn't highlight it. Because if you ask anyone Shaquille O'Neal what's he famous for, we're going to say big dude, he was a center and he was the most powerful, dominant player in the game and you know, at his position and this is what he did. No one's going to say Dr Shaquille O'Neal, very educated man who's accomplished all these different things and continues to thrive in business, right man who's accomplished all these different things and continues to thrive in business.
Speaker 1:Right, because you know little kids want to grow up and dunk on people. Dunk on people, that's right. How about this one? I really wish I had a woman on the show. You know we haven't yet had one. I can't wait to get their perspective as well. But this one, the angry black woman.
Speaker 2:You heard that one obviously.
Speaker 5:Yeah, we've heard that quite often.
Speaker 1:All right, what do you think the origin is, as from First, let me give it up to the black woman.
Speaker 5:I mean, my mother was a strong, strong black woman and I'm married to a strong black woman. I think that they had to always fight. You know, you think about the black woman in slavery days. They took care of the white children. You know they was always taking care of people and nurturing people and I think that during that process that's all that they were good for or known for. Then they were fighting for acceptance of being no. I'm not just someone here to change a diaper and clean a kitchen. You know, I have something uh vital that I can bring and I can contribute to society. So I think that black women have that that came from them. Always having to fight to be heard and fight to be understood.
Speaker 1:Feel like that was kind of like the origin of that uh, pre and during the whole jim crow, it was a common thing, and there's a caricature called the Sapphire.
Speaker 2:Caricature oh, I get where you're going there.
Speaker 1:Okay. So you have to realize something right Today there's literally a thousand shows on TV, on not just TV, but all the platforms. Very little is going to influence people in the way they think, going forward, when it comes to that. Back then, and even the 80s and 90s, if you think about it, because it wasn't so abundantly available, any show kind of like sculpted a generation. We all talk like coming to america. We've said certain things. We'll we'll have movie references all day long. Right Now, if I make a movie reference from a show that I watch on Netflix, you have no clue what I'm talking about, because you're watching the 600 other shows that are available to you. So back then these things shaped people's lives and it shaped generations to come, and the black woman was portrayed as angry, loud and domineering. What didn't help is, even when the more modern era came about, you had other shows, regular sitcoms, doing the exact same thing.
Speaker 1:They were snappy, they were witty, they were funny, they were clownish, they were sassy you know, sassy, right, you had that going on and they were like always snapping their fingers and rolling their necks. That's what was put on TV and I would watch this. Well, it could just well. It started from that's what I'm saying from that Sapphire caricature that existed way back in the day and it sold and it got ratings, and that's what. That's what worked. Even as black people, when we put those shows together, we did the same thing. We just like ran with that. Um, so that's the origin of it. That's what made it so popular. That's what made it so propagated, because, don't forget, what these idiots saw on tv to them was reality. The women around me weren't like that but who is somebody?
Speaker 5:somebody just didn't draw a black woman and put this image of a black woman out there.
Speaker 1:Um, someone did made it.
Speaker 5:So someone made this a black person up to be that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:The whole blackface thing that was back in the day that's how they they made the whole man they created the image right, they created the image right this stereotype oh, you're still he created this. They created this stereotype right, exactly it was white women in blackface, it was black men and white men in blackface. It wasn't us playing those roles gotcha okay.
Speaker 5:Okay, that's what I was trying to get it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because you're like who's the actress who fucked it all up? Right, who really?
Speaker 3:who did this?
Speaker 1:yeah, so it didn't come from a person exactly now later on, you have actors who will sell out. We talked about this before. You have had actors who did sell out to where, like hey, that's what you want me to play, I'll play that.
Speaker 5:That's the. That just the last podcast. I said this. What uh dl healy said? That the worst place for a black person to be is in a white person's imagination yeah, that goes to that right, you know, because they they drew that it.
Speaker 1:And they think they know who we are based on what they saw on a television show a long, long time ago. That's why, when they meet a black person, they'll say something like oh, you're not like the other black people.
Speaker 5:You don't know any other black people.
Speaker 1:You just know what you saw on TV or what you heard Right uh, creating the black woman, black women adapted to that. No, just no, no, do you? Know them like that they're not like that in real life. I know a lot of them not, but some are but.
Speaker 5:But I'm saying what did they get? So they didn't have to be what was drew up, the ones? That's like that, I feel like the.
Speaker 1:Don't forget that the. The question is are black women loud and angry?
Speaker 5:I was dissecting it, I was going into it, yeah.
Speaker 1:We're doing a good thing, right, but I'm not saying are there some people that act ratchet or whatever. I'm not saying that because that's in every race anyway, but we're talking about the whole stereotype where our women black women are not even allowed to express how they feel and what they go through because that's going to be misinterpreted as anger.
Speaker 5:So now they have to be silenced, right and so we think about the people for a woman to be on here talking. Oh man, are they gonna?
Speaker 1:get mad at me because I'm like why don't you invite me? Because I know my wife's gonna get on my ass about it's like mass should have been here I can hear my wife, she'll be all on this.
Speaker 5:Yeah, well, here's, here's a thing.
Speaker 1:Here's another stat right. So, um, in 2018 they did a study right and they found that 77 I could be off over 70 percent of black women in the workplace experience microaggressions. They deal with that on a daily basis and then, when they finally speak up because of that frustration they have to deal with every day, they are typically silenced and they have to keep it inside. When they finally express something, it's they're not even see they're not even angry.
Speaker 1:They're finally frustrated, finally saying something where they're perceived as they're angry and they are overreacting self-fulfilling prophecy, like you said before.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the second. They do the normal thing. It's like see, I knew you were going to do that.
Speaker 2:You're the angry black woman. It's like, no, I am someone who is expressing frustration, correct, nope, you're an angry black woman. But, like you were saying and I'm glad you brought up the Sapphire thing, the biggest problem and that's what stereotypes do it made the exception the rule. We know that there's at least one woman walking this planet that does some of the things that we you know, but somehow or another it's been put out there and people hold on to that and love to say it, that that's every black woman. That's every black woman. And the exception is the quote unquote Claire Huxtable, who is the lawyer who speaks eloquently and monotone, and all this other. No, she's the exception. The rule is I was getting ready to call out a rapper's name, so I'm not going to do it. Do it, do it, do it. She says body parts of hers are different colors. That rapper.
Speaker 1:I don't even know what the hell you're talking about. I'm glad you don't. I'm glad you don't Booty pink. Booty pink, booty brown, there you go, there you go.
Speaker 5:You might want to cut that part.
Speaker 1:Is that Glorella? Because I love her.
Speaker 3:No, I just discovered her Red. No, that's sexy red Sexy run. I don't know what that is Should.
Speaker 5:I know what that is. Nah, you shouldn't. Nah, you shouldn't, alright cool. What if you know who Glow is? You know Glow's from.
Speaker 1:Memphis. Bro, how do I not know who Glow is Like? I'm exposed to Glow no matter what my daughter called me the other day.
Speaker 5:She was like I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:I like that sound.
Speaker 3:Not from you so much.
Speaker 2:You sound different when it comes to you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that was a little scary.
Speaker 1:We said glora, I was like a gorilla so you know, but there's something the black woman does that has that, that takes care of us and nurturing.
Speaker 4:I swear to God.
Speaker 2:That's what I was saying give it up for the black woman to the next level, bro. That the next level, bro, that's next level. You're going to have a good night tonight.
Speaker 3:I'm just I'm telling you, or when this comes out In three weeks, maybe y'all sent her that clip.
Speaker 2:King of the neighborhood. At that point that's right.
Speaker 4:It's funny, you talked about that because, uh, you think about stacy abrams, when she took that l and she just kind of felt like she disappeared. But what it? What a thing really happened was she was in the background just building up, right, the next generation, because I was like why doesn't she run again? Why is she running?
Speaker 1:it's like she's making it better for everybody else stacy's phenomenal man and you know it's funny, I have her in my notes here. I was gonna say to you know, one of the ways we dispel this stupid ass stereotype is we need to spend more time highlighting people like stacy abrams. You know all the women who are doing some amazing things and taking this beating with grace and impact. To some extent, what we can do ourselves is highlight, like willie's been doing here for the past 10 minutes right, I love you boo.
Speaker 1:Highlight the strong women in our lives, because they have to deal with the bullshit. My wife is in a corporate environment and she deals with this microaggression. Some of them are not so micro, they are very overt. But that's what we need to do is to highlight the magnificence in these particular women to make sure that we're do our part.
Speaker 2:Right, totally agree with that.
Speaker 4:Shout out to my wife for putting up with my BS on a daily basis.
Speaker 1:That's why she's angry.
Speaker 3:All right so.
Speaker 1:Willie, here's your favorite ones, the one you brought up earlier, brother. Now you know what I'll do this one last. Let's do a fun one. Black people love watermelon and chicken, fried chicken specifically so, so delicious a bird don't stand a chance around.
Speaker 3:So origin is, is what like, do we know?
Speaker 2:I don't understand. I thought it was southern based, but it is it is so.
Speaker 1:it is propagated from the jim crow era. So it was like it's not so much that what they're saying is offensive, it's how they're saying it and it's also to always put you down. Not growing up here, I wasn't exposed to the racism. I can't tell you, even almost to this day, how many times people have been overtly racist and I totally missed it. And someone else would be like that was fucked up.
Speaker 4:dude, I'm like what, what happened? What happened? And?
Speaker 3:I'm like I missed it to me wasn't because I was black, I didn't.
Speaker 1:Oh shit, I didn't know, because I've missed a lot of things. At 16, me and my cousin, we had to do this job for this guy. So a neighbor he was, he got a new apartment and he was like, hey, you boys want to paint my apartment. You know, I'll give you $20. I don't know, this is 89. I'm like, yeah, shit, $20.
Speaker 2:You know that I've been to $20.
Speaker 1:A couple of rooms, yeah, I was like yeah, and he got my cousin. He was like $20 each. I was like that sounds great. Reggie, call my boy and we, we go out there and we start painting or whatever. Now, my cousin is also haitian, but he was born and raised here, grew up here, so he knows all this shit, um, and he's dealt with it a lot. It's always funny when I watch, like when I talk to my friends who are whose parents are from a different country but they grew up here, because they teach me so much, like how it is and what I've missed on, uh, what I've missed out on. So I, we were painting this room and this was summer and he goes I need a second coat. And I was like I didn't know I needed a second coat for because I didn't even know you need to do it twice, kind of sucks but I was like, oh my god, I have to do double the work or whatever.
Speaker 1:And I was like it's hot. And he was like, don't worry, I've got some watermelon so I was like oh, that sounds like great idea.
Speaker 3:I think so so I go, yes, please. I was like that's wonderful.
Speaker 1:So the side of prejudice my, my cousin like he, he backhands me, you know, and I'm like, I'm like on my chest, I'm like what the guy leaves, right, he's like, dude, that was racist. I was like, no, that was generous. What do you mean?
Speaker 1:I like watermelon Fucking racist. He asked me if I want some watermelon and I do right Give so. Then he explains to me who's just like no. He didn't have time to go through the whole thing and even know it. You know he didn't even know where that whole thing came from, but it was just like no. When white people say that to you, they're being racist because there's a stereotype about you know, black people love watermelon. Did you eat the watermelon? No, reggie, wouldn't let me.
Speaker 3:I ain't gonna lie, he wanted it, I wanted it yeah.
Speaker 1:Cause I wasn't sold.
Speaker 2:That was like he did it for the culture.
Speaker 1:But Reggie was like when I came, when he came, he's like we're not taking this shit bro, we're not doing it. And so guy came back with some watermelon. I was like uh remember, right, right, you know so the truth is um, it has obviously has nothing to do with, you know, your race. It's a matter of taste. It has nothing to do with genetics, it has nothing to do with the culture where you're from, or whatever it is. You know, if we're gonna say, should we dispel that one? Uh, do we care?
Speaker 5:no, everybody in the southeast no but again, like you say, I don't give a shit, I like chicken watermelon, I mean it's like you said, bring it on yeah, it's all about the intent. Speaking of chicken where, the, where the chicken is lunch is coming well remember when uh tiger was winning and then it was baba
Speaker 2:and they're talking about.
Speaker 4:Yeah, like you know, what do you think he's gonna want for the? The dinner or the so?
Speaker 1:set that up right. People don't know what it is. So when you're, when, once you win the masters, the masters, you get to decide what the dinner is going to be. You, as a winner, you get to decide what it is, masters being the golf tournament, the most prestigious tournament in golf, which tigers won five times and he gets it yeah oh yeah, and then he. So he gets to decide. So, going on what people, what the dinner will be, what's going to be on the menu you can run with it.
Speaker 4:No, go ahead, you got it. So I think the guy's name is bubba watson. Hey, listeners.
Speaker 1:I wanted to jump in real quick here to say that that statement was not made by baba watson. We love baba, he's awesome. This statement was made by a gentleman named fuzzy zoller. Fuzzy zoller is the guy who made the racist statement so many years ago and he lives and died by it. So there, there you have it. Back to our show.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, bubba Watson. So then I guess a reporter asked Bubba Watson hey, you know, what do you think Tiger's going to, or what do you think we're going to be having for the dinner? And I think he said something like we're going to be having fried chicken or something along those lines.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he said they're going to have fried chicken. I think he actually said watermelon too, so what's? Another one Black people are always late, so what does?
Speaker 1:that? What does that CPT what?
Speaker 2:does that? What does that come from? Where, where we were in Africa, our clocks were set differently?
Speaker 4:One different time zone, one different time zone, so when?
Speaker 1:we would look at, so we would look at the sun and the steak on the ground.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the sun's closer to us Technically we're always early Our time. You just didn't catch up. That's what that was.
Speaker 1:That's funny, and I'm going to stay on that. So for me, for instance, anything that happened in my culture as a Haitian man, haitians blamed all Haitians. So, for instance, there's a saying you cannot pay a Haitian a compliment because the second you tell them they're doing something right, they're going to fuck it up.
Speaker 5:I got a cousin like that. Don't ever pay a.
Speaker 3:Haitian a compliment they're going to fuck it up. You're the jinxed.
Speaker 1:Another one that I grew up in Haiti hearing all the time was Haitians are always late. Now, think about this. The entire country, right? So what it is is when someone or people in your immediate circle do something, you're attributed to that group of people, but that's all the people you know. Because, think about it, right, if you're going to step outside of your culture, outside of home, it's professional, so work, maybe sports. If I have to be somewhere to give a speech or do, whatever I'm doing, I'm going to be on time for that.
Speaker 5:I was kind of taught that like for a family function like say, for instance, you was having barbecue at your house.
Speaker 2:I know what you're going to say.
Speaker 5:You know I'm going to come to your house late because if you get there too early you become part of the setup committee.
Speaker 1:So you have different strategies based on what it is, and you're not late, you just be strategic. Yeah, on what?
Speaker 4:it is. Yeah, you're not late, you just be strategic. Yeah, I hate to wait, I just hate to wait like if something's starting at eight, I'll be there, like I'm gonna try to get there at eight because I want to get there at 7 45 and I'm like, all right, so now we're just sitting around for 15. I could have been at the house getting stuff done for 15 minutes. Right, I got a lot of stuff. I gotta do.
Speaker 1:What's always bothered me is actually the jokes are funny. I'm not. It's. It's the fact that people will take comedians saying certain things and then run with it Like it's just the truth for everyone. But it's not just us listening to our own jokes. You know how. You can just joke inside your house and you can say things about the people you love, right. But then the second someone from the outside- starts saying it.
Speaker 1:So that's what's happened with that particular stereotype? We would take it, we would propagate it, we'd make fun of it, we'd laugh about it. But then, boom, someone else hears this and they go oh, black people, always late. Now it's serious and it changes the way they're seeing us. It changes anything. And lets you run into a meeting five seconds late. Oh, there you go. See, I told you, when it comes down to business and what we have to do, then that's not something that's real, it's just been taken.
Speaker 1:And then they run with you, they run with it and then they basically take it to say that we're unprofessional as a people, which is stupid yeah it's not true, a number of hpcus, the the motto is you know if you're on on time, you're late.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know. So you know. If we can get more of that in our system, the discipline, it it'll work itself out. You know. If somebody tried to say, well, you all are always late, like no, 85% of us are on time. That's just something you made up and you flip it on and make it a lie. You've been running with it, exactly.
Speaker 1:All right, here is your favorite one, willie Black fathers are absent. It's a gross misrepresentation of data. You just looked at that and didn't look at single family households and things like that, and that's what he ran with. It's just a gross misrepresentation. We talked about this in the last podcast when we talked about our dads and I highlighted the fact that we had four people in the room, you know, and we all had our dads in our lives. Also, a stereotype has been reinforced by things like policies like mass incarceration. So if I get caught with an ounce of weed I don't know is that a lot, because I've never smoked I should ask my brother. We're going to shout out to my brother right now.
Speaker 3:We'll know exactly what. It's not a lot. It's not a lot.
Speaker 1:So what is it? A bag.
Speaker 3:We're over here talking about drugs and how Right right, but whatever it is right, we'll talk to Ramon.
Speaker 1:But if I get caught with it, the punishment for me is a lot harsher than it would be for someone else.
Speaker 4:An ounce of cocaine, that's a lot. Well, no, the punishment's different.
Speaker 2:Yeah, crack versus cocaine a lot well.
Speaker 4:No, the punishment's different. Yeah, crack versus cocaine, and yeah, one drug is for one people.
Speaker 1:And the other jug is for other people gotcha, so the penalties are different.
Speaker 4:You would think cocaine, being a harder substance, would have a harder punishment, but no.
Speaker 1:So here's the truth. This is something that you can get from the cdc website. So I did the research and I looked at it. So the cdc shows that black fathers are more involved in their children's lives than fathers of other races. Not just as much more involved in terms of daily activities. This is things like as simple as bathing your child, reading to your kid, talking to your kid to bed. The CDC just looks at everything and has data on everything, so that's interesting. It has data on everything, so that's interesting. 70% of black fathers who don't live with their children are very active and see their kids regularly.
Speaker 5:That's the data, especially now I have seen the statistics that says, as a whole, we are spending more time and very active in our families' lives. You know, versus back in the day when, like when my granddaddy was living in the way he grew up, he was always at work. You know, my wife, not my wife, I was just thinking about my wife. I love you, man.
Speaker 2:You know, my grandmother she was.
Speaker 4:In the Nash household.
Speaker 3:When is this coming out again?
Speaker 5:You know, I mean he was a pastor at the church so he was doing a lot of running and my grandmother, she really took care of everything at home and household, so he didn't have to do it. You know, even with my dad, I mean, he was working a lot and my mom kind of took care of all the household things, was working a lot and my mom kind of took care of all the household things. But now the roles have reversed. It's not a gender specific type of situation anymore, like it used to be. Like, you know, I don't mind washing clothes, I don't mind making up the bed, I don't mind folding clothes, you know, putting clothes up and it different, those different type of things. And I think that, uh, the black man we're adapting to being more domesticated than our fathers were back then when we were coming up.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So to me it's not so much how the rules are reversed, but there's equity.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Which is different than equality? Right, we're not doing the exact same thing, but we're just as involved in the household. That's right. We're just as involved in certain things like she'll cook, I'll wash the dishes yeah, you know the things that we're gonna do.
Speaker 1:You know, um, you know you'll do some with the kids. I'll put them to bed, right, you know. So there's, there's definitely that's that involvement. And it has to do with the generation because, like you said, your granddad was super tough. Your dad was tough. You got a little softer, and not that it makes you any softer of a man that's not what I mean. Like, you still have all these strong qualities right as a person.
Speaker 1:We all do right but it makes you, where you can be, more emotionally connected, whereas before we weren't it was like now, my role was to be tough and to guard this castle, and that was really it, you know and you know. So now there's a certain way that we are where we like no, you know what I can kind of balance that. That's right. I'm I'm able to do all of these things I still need to be doing, but I still can, you know, be present and be soft with my family and and be available to them in that way. So, yes, I know that we're involved in our children's lives and kids, hot kids every day.
Speaker 5:Yeah, what's that?
Speaker 2:for you. Yeah, you want to say something? Yeah, Like you were saying, it is the stereotype. I'm glad that that's all that it is. I hate the fact that it's impacting, you know, other people the way that it does, Though you're going back to statistics that they have. Now most of the information I have on that is another stereotype. You know about men black men always got to have a bunch of women sexualized and everything like that. I think it stems back to slavery times. Sure, you know the whole idea. Why are you laughing, Willie?
Speaker 4:I forgot to give a shout out to a side piece. Yeah, he was like you're messing up all the stuff, all the credit, equity and credit. I done got talking about my wife.
Speaker 3:You just messed it all up, just whatever you about to say, man. So I'm training lightly, but the idea of slavery.
Speaker 2:Put the situation where this one man to make sure that I get as much ROI, this one man has to breed in all these different households. So this one man is not tied to one household, one family, one set of children, and we're going to help him benefit from that. He may not get all the food, but he'll get better scraps than someone else. Having that, supporting that idea that black man, go be with as many women as you would like and just keep looking forward, I'm going to take care of you. I believe that whole idea of black men not being at home, black men not taking care of their children, I think it began there. Oh yeah, most definitely. It most definitely became a big deal and then it became policy, like you said.
Speaker 5:There was big money in that.
Speaker 2:Welfare and everything like that it's like. We want to make sure that that person that would be part of the lead of the household is not there. When times get hard financially, we'll give more money to your family. If he's not there, yep, we'll give more. The more children that are there, we'll give more money yep, we'll get more.
Speaker 2:The more children that are there, we'll get more money. You know so, and that all to me. That all stems back to to slavery times. Uh, here in the us at the least, somehow or another, the black man not being with his black family, the stereotype is that somehow another. That's what we want, and that's what we promote, and that's what it's in our nature to breed and walk away, and it's like no, it's never been that way, especially coming from an african-based you know that's what they use us for, right?
Speaker 2:yeah, that's what they use, but that's, like you said, what they, what they want to promote is that this is what it looks like and this is what it is, and unfortunately there's a small percentage and I'm hoping that percentage stays small. Some of our brothers buy into that and go oh yeah, that sounds about right.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I like that. I'm going to have a whole bunch of them and then listen to the music, right, that perpetuates it and it's like I'm applauding that. I'm applauding that. So the truth of the matter is and I'm glad you provided statistics, because one of the things that one of my favorite professors at Virginia Tech shout out to Nikki Giovanni, who just passed, she let it be known that sometimes the words out of our mouths, the four of us, won't matter to a person until we can tell them what book and what page it came from. So when you say statistics, people go yeah, all right, let me look that up on my phone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can. This way, everything's available now. So if I say something that you want to double check, go on the internet and double check it.
Speaker 1:Make sure the source is reputable, of course, because I'm going back to the CDC, I'm looking at stats that are available for everyone. Yeah, so for sure. Yeah, very powerful stuff, man. Well said, actually, you know, um, that's another thing. That's, that's the conversation. I'm looking forward to having the degradation or the loss of the. He was a speech being given by Dr. Oh, my goodness, hey, listeners, the gentleman's name is Dr George C Frazier, but he was saying that the culture overall, society, certain societies and cultures, they thrive when the families stay together, or at least when there's a foundation based on family right. Right, so you have. He talked about the, the income. It used to be that the highest paid people in america used to be white people. It's no longer the case. I don't know if you guys knew that yeah, I knew, I've always believed that, so it's no longer the case actually.
Speaker 1:So they are third now they're still higher than we are asian and there's a correlation. So it's indian, right, um, I'm so, so he's eastern indian, um, you have um asian chinese for the most, and white people are third. Now, each one of those people in the exact same order, have the highest marriage rate, starting with 90% with the Indians and it's around 70% of the Chinese. White people are right at around 30, 40% and I might need to correct that if I'm wrong and we're way below at like 30-some percent. That stuff matters.
Speaker 1:And I'm not saying that this is not the message, not to be misinterpreted. I'm not saying to my young daughter, who might want to be like I'm not interested in getting married. Go get married or else. I'm not saying to my son go get married or else. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that when there's a family bond, you have two incomes in one household.
Speaker 1:We team up to do this fucking thing called life and we say we're going to grow together cultures that got that shit figured out and they know what they're doing with it.
Speaker 1:They thrive right and the cultures that don't end up falling apart, and we all know that without a strong economic backbone, we don't really have much power in anything. You know, we could be running around just being renegades and individuals, we're doing our little thing, but as a whole, as a community, we're going to suffer unless we fix that. So again, that's another conversation that I want to go ahead and find the source and find the data before we can have an intelligent conversation about it. You guys listening to us we appreciate you guys greatly. Thank you for joining Manhood Matters, the podcast, where we have these real conversations. We encourage you to follow us on social media Instagram, manhood Matters Podcast or send us an email at manhoodmatterspodcast at gmailcom If there's a subject you want us to talk about or if you just have some feedback to help make us better as a whole. Tune in next week. We're going to have some good stuff for you guys, over and out.
Speaker 4:Hey Willie, can you pass me that fried chicken?
Speaker 5:I got a lot of it over here.
Speaker 3:You can't wait to see it.
Speaker 2:They got stereotypes too. They got stereotypes. You got to talk about my stereotypes, why?
Speaker 4:is that stereotype, right? Oh, you people are so funny, right? What do you mean, you people, what do you mean, you people, what do you mean?
