Manhood Matters Podcast
Conversations around challenges dominating a man's journey through life. These topics are explored by real, everyday friends, with a lot of experience... And we have the occasional expert guest.
Manhood Matters Podcast
Femininity and Masculinity: A Deep Dive into Self-Discovery (Chapter 1)
Answering questions from ladies under 30.
Imagine navigating the complex maze of modern relationships with a blend of traditional wisdom and fresh perspectives. Join me and my long-time friends, Leon Cohen and Delva Michel, along with the remarkably insightful Justin Bradford, as we tackle pressing questions from young women exploring romance, relationships, and family building. From dissecting societal norms and personal insecurities that shape our perceptions of control, to redefining gender roles in pursuit of balanced partnerships, we aim to offer you a nuanced guide through the intricate landscapes of personal connections.
What truly defines the success of a relationship? Is it love, financial stability, or something more intangible like character and values? We embark on a candid discussion surrounding these themes, emphasizing the importance of authenticity and respect over conventional notions of love. Delve into the complexities of expectations, financial independence, and the dynamics of joint finances in marriage, as we share personal anecdotes and hard-won insights. Our narrative threads through the cultural taboos of seeking therapy and the journey of healing generational traumas, offering a compelling reflection on the power of empathy and communication.
Discover the vital role of mentorship and self-reflection in personal growth, particularly for women embracing femininity and its deeper qualities beyond the surface. Our conversation also kicks off the Manhood Matters series, where we unravel the intricacies of masculinity with valuable insights from our guests. Join us in this thought-provoking episode as we strive to inspire, challenge, and guide you through the multifaceted journey of relationships, personal growth, and family dynamics.
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Host: StéphaneAlexandre
IG: @stephanealexandreofficial
Music by Liam Weisner
Sponsored by www.OnsiteLabs.net
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but then also, it's how you're going about it. Is there even a high button to touch? Because, if not, maybe you're projecting your own insecurity. Like what if a woman came up to me and said, or came up to me was like you need therapy because you're too controlling? But she thinks I'm controlling because she tries to go out to the clubs with her friends every single weekend and wear a little mini skirt and I'm like I'm not gonna take you serious. You go out with that, the doors lock. When you come back, find a new one Right, and then she's like well, no, now you're controlling, now you're too opinionated.
Speaker 2:Thank you for joining us this week, man. I am excited. This is part one of a three-part series that we have dedicated to answering questions from young women, all under the age of 30. Some have children, some are in committed relationships, some aren't, but all of their questions have to do with life, romance, relationship building, a family, a foundation, etc. I am joined by my longtime friend, one of the most traditional, methodical, pragmatic, intelligent men that I have ever known, leon Cohen, also joining me. We have my forever friend, delva Michelle, a wonderful family man, friend, brother, mentor to some and, quite honestly, someone that I look up to, even though he's younger than I am. And, lastly, we are also joined. This is a twist. We were going to have older guys answering questions, but because this young man is so mature I'm not going to say for his age, he's just mature period A stoic, a very logical and intellectual person, and he is guided by a solid foundation through the word as a follower of Christ. Justin Bradford joins us in the living room today and I think it's exciting that we'll have someone who is in that same age bracket with these young women.
Speaker 2:This episode is proudly sponsored by OnsiteLabsnet, that's, o-n-s-i-t-e labsnet. Whether you're seeking a paternity test or a DNA confirmation for either immigration or legal of any other family reasons, or even genetic testing onsitelabsnet. If you are anywhere in the metro Atlanta area, you want to reach out to them and the best part is they come to you. So they've got you covered. Welcome to Manhood Matters. Let's get right to it. What's going on? Everyone? I am Stefan, your host. I am here with my boy from man. How long have we known each other? Leon, ooh uh 2008?
Speaker 3:2000,.
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah it's been a while. Yeah, yeah, bro, known you forever man.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it seems like it anyway.
Speaker 2:It's been a good ride. Brother Appreciate you. So Leon Cohen is in the house about to impart his wisdom, and we also have my boy, delva, michelle. Yes, sir, dude, I've known you the longest.
Speaker 4:I believe. So yeah, because.
Speaker 2:I've known you. I think we met when you were like 16. How old are you now? 48. Jesus Christ, that's a long time. Yeah, you looked at him right.
Speaker 3:Because, like, how old do you think he was? I didn't know but it gave me a whole different perspective now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how old do you think he was, say mid 30s? Mid 30s yeah just cause a little gray on the beard or whatever. It's incredible, but I've known just do it a long time. So what happened with him? He was, he's a musician and he was a drummer. Now he's a bass player. He probably plays every instrument, but back then he was primarily a drummer and I remember we would have gigs and he was not allowed in the clubs.
Speaker 4:Facts.
Speaker 2:Because he was too young. You think he looks young now. Imagine what he looked like when he was 16. He looked 10, right, but yeah, it's been a good ride, man. And how long you been married 19 years now. That's beautiful. And, Leon, I forgot to ask you how long you been married Since 2007.
Speaker 3:Don't make me do math, brother, I'm sorry. So it's 18 years.
Speaker 4:It was easy for me, just in six 18 years.
Speaker 2:All right, that's awesome. And we have Justin the mentor, Justin Bradford what's up, brother?
Speaker 3:Nothing have.
Speaker 2:Justin, the mentor, justin Bradford what's up, brother? Nothing much, man. Good to have you here, absolutely Now. Justin and I we've known each other about a year, just about, and it's been amazing because we just, you know, we are business partners, work together. We worked together for a little bit and now we're business partners, and he's someone that this is going to sound weird to say because he's so much younger than me, he's younger than my kids, but I look up to you, your wisdom your intelligence is something that I'm proud to watch.
Speaker 2:I'm proud to watch that develop, so that's why you're here, even though you're young enough to be on.
Speaker 4:Everyone's kid.
Speaker 1:Everyone's kid in here.
Speaker 2:We're about your dad's age, so this particular episode is really gonna be cool. So what happens is young ladies they're all under 30, I believe. So these are all young women in their twenties and they sent in their questions and they wanted to get our perspective as you know, the OGs, the young G over here and just get the male perspective. Like, what is it that we're thinking?
Speaker 2:And what I find is, a lot of times where people are in it, it's hard to see it right, you cannot give yourself advice. You know the answer, you just want to act on it and you haven't noticed that how, when someone else comes to you, you just seem to be like the most wise person in the world. You have all the answers but you can't solve your own shit. So I think that you know we're going to show them some grace and just be able to kind of answer their questions, because they're going through some things, and I think that we're maybe going to come across as more of a sounding board to those guys, to these ladies, rather than anything else. I think they know the answers, but they need to hear it. This is unfiltered, this is raw, this is real.
Speaker 1:So, justin, you're going to read the questions and, yeah, let's get to it, man, awesome so question number one ask what does a man expect to hear or what is the appropriate answer for when a man asked me, what do I bring to the table?
Speaker 2:We hear that a lot these days right. We hear that a lot these days, these days yes, yeah, what do you think, leon?
Speaker 3:So that dynamic has changed since I was in the dating market, because it wasn't quote, unquote, I would say expectation, it was something you kind of got around to. But we have a younger generation of men that think differently than our generation did in the way we were brought up. So I go back to my father's generation.
Speaker 3:My father expected to take care of a woman. It was not what was she bringing to the table as far as income or whatever. It was like OK, can you come home, can you fix a meal, make sure everything is good around here, since I'm going out to make the money. As I grew up in my generation, of course women were working and it still wasn't 50-50. But you know, it was one of those things where it was like OK I know I got to carry most of this weight here the answer that I think these young men you know are looking for, just in talking to them from you know, mentoring, you know they're looking for what you'll have Basically, you know.
Speaker 3:All right, everybody talks about marriage as a partnership. Well, partners, 50-50. Let's you know what you got. Yeah, if you ain't bringing at least that, then you know I can do this by myself. Right, you know, figure it out. So I think the biggest thing with that question for women is you need to decide what your role is going to be in the house and establish that early. So, or establish if this is a person you're going to even be with, and that's a consideration for you, because I don't need to tell you what I'm bringing to the table if I don't plan on being with you for you because I don't need to tell you what I'm bringing to the table if I don't plan on being with you?
Speaker 3:that's and I think that that's where the disconnect is is that, if I'm dating you, why do I have to tell you what I'm bringing to the table? We're just trying to figure out if we even gonna be together, right get to know each other first.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a feel. It's a filling out process. So if we filling each other out that's irrelevant. Now, as we progress and figure out that we want to go further than now, we want to be in a relationship and take that relationship further, then I think that question is more appropriate. I think that people skip steps in relationships.
Speaker 2:So let's say you're there, let's say there's been five, six dates. The woman I mean the man rather asks that very question.
Speaker 1:That's good and I can give a good perspective just from like being in the dating pool. As far as what he said, it's very true, cause there's a lot of feminized men in my generation that look for a partner rather than a helper, like the whole Adam and Eve dynamic. So the thing I actually ask is not what do you bring to the table? Cause I would add onto that that you have never given to another man. Cause now when they hear that you have never given to another man, because now, when they hear that you have to dive into character, you have to dive into your values, you have to dive into the principles that your parents maybe gave you. So, as far as the appropriate answer, I think it's intangible things, something that nobody can take away from you. Maybe that's your purity, maybe it's your innocence, maybe it's your intelligence, maybe it's your ability to just be submissive, because that's a very lost art today with the women that I have to encounter. So that's a dirty word.
Speaker 3:You got to be careful with that submissive thing that's going to be controversial.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So be it.
Speaker 1:But it's very true If you're a man worth submitting to, if you're a man of high character and you're not just some financial provider say that again If you're a man worth submitting to right, Because a lot of men, at least in my generation, we're.
Speaker 1:Because a lot of men, at least in my generation, were striving to be financial providers rather than true leaders, Meaning you can provide, but you also know how to protect. You also know how to prevail. You also know how to establish a good foundation for the family unit to come on to. So I think a lot of the answers that they probably give are more so well, I like to party, and that's not what people want to hear. It's like you're bringing fun to the table. I'm looking for fulfillment being brought to the table. Excellent answer.
Speaker 4:It's crazy because this question is pretty wide, right Broad. Yeah, it's broad because the thing is nothing you guys say is wrong. And, not to confuse the ladies, I have a different spin on it. Go for it. You don't want this to be a cookie cutter answer, right? So what do men want to hear?
Speaker 4:you you really just want to talk to the person you're asking the question to? What does he want to hear? What do you expect to hear from you? Okay, because myself, all I want you to bring is respect. You don't even have to love me damn.
Speaker 3:Wow, what the hell, absolutely.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, bro, break that shit down absolutely.
Speaker 4:I will take respect over love anytime but that wait, wait, I'm confused.
Speaker 2:I agree to that oh, do you agree?
Speaker 4:I agree to that absolutely, because the thing is on the same page. I like wait okay, if you could be feminine and soft and and and know yourself, bring yourself, don't hide who you are. Okay, that's respecting me from from the get-go. Okay, I know I'm dealing with. We could build on love later. We have to like each other.
Speaker 2:Obviously they're not bringing. They're not bringing that, that, that performance, they're bringing their authenticity.
Speaker 4:That's not your representative.
Speaker 2:That's you.
Speaker 4:There you go.
Speaker 3:So can I answer her question? If that was asked of me, what do I bring to the table? I would ask that person in turn, what do you need? Because I could be bringing something to the table that could not be relevant to your need. I mean, is it emotional, is it physical, is it monetary, what is it? And then they'll go back to. Well, I just need to know what you bring to the table.
Speaker 2:No, no, they're asking the other, no, it's the other way around. They're asking what is it that we are expecting to hear? We ask them that question Right.
Speaker 3:And so what do we say to that? That would be my response if I was the young lady, that definitely ties into what he said.
Speaker 1:As far as it depends on the person, right? Like you don't want to try to throw something on the wall and hope it sticks or be a cookie cutter. Answer Each person's different. He may want respect, you may want love, I may want submission. He may want a counterpart, right? We don't know what each other wants, and neither does that woman, until she asks questions and gets to learn that exact man.
Speaker 4:So when Delva asks what do you bring to the table to you, I want to hear exactly what you bring to the table, not what you expect me to hear. You understand what I'm saying. Be like, hey, I'm the person when you come home, you could just feel like, okay, you want to come home too. Okay, but you have to be that person, because once you tell me that that's what I have to go by, because once you tell me that that's what I have to go by. So don't tell me what you think I expect to hear. Be yourself. So that's respect to me. So, which means, if you could have respect, you respect me as a man, which is I've been married 19 years, bro. Nothing is super smooth, right, but I have to say I am good, I'm happily married because my wife respects me. And it's crazy, when we met, I didn't bring much to the table. She had it all.
Speaker 2:When you say you didn't bring much to the table, you mean the things that are stereotypically expected Money you know.
Speaker 4:But I brought myself my genuine self. She accepted, she bought in. She was like, yeah, that's what I want. And then I was looking for somebody just like her, somebody that expect me for who I was.
Speaker 4:I was a musician yeah I was making money, but in our culture, you know, I mean, once you were a musician you're like, hey, you're a bum, you're a bum, right. And then her father was a engineer working for the government. Oh you, even more of a bum, exactly. And mom was a college dean. Oh, you're even more of a bum, exactly, and mom was a college dean.
Speaker 1:Oh, you're a super bum. Okay, levels to it, yeah.
Speaker 3:What is?
Speaker 2:he doing? He's doing what? How much is he? How do you want to live on that? He's on a bass Okay, in a Haitian band. Exactly, that's even worse.
Speaker 4:So that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:And she respected me for who I was. So say yeah. So just be authentic in that way, absolutely. That's what I'm trying to say. So it sounds to me like we, you know they would need to go a step back and think about do they even know themselves who they are and what their identity is as a woman? So if you know that when the question is asked, you can answer it honestly, absolutely, because there's nothing more to it. So find out who you're talking to. I guess in a way, right, if you're dating this person, like you said, leon, you're getting to know this person. Find out who that person is, don't rush to anything. So by the time this question is asked, you'd know what type of man is asking you a question.
Speaker 4:Check this out, steph, because I've heard this. I don't want to take credit for this. There was a woman who asked that question to a man, right, I mean a man? Right, I mean a man asked a question to a woman what do you bring to the table? And then she said oh, you guys don't even know what you want because you asked for somebody who had their shit together and then when you get one, you you leave them for a lesser uh woman by her standard. So somebody okay. And then the guy said you know what's funny having your shit together doesn't disqualify you from being a horrible person, because you could have your shit together. But I can't live with you and the lesser person to you by your standard, I feel welcome, I feel wanted, I feel respected. So who has the shit together?
Speaker 1:I'll tie in a good one-liner for that right. That I just thought about in my head. I thought about if they qualify from the internal, you know it's something true. If they qualify from the external, you know trouble will brew. Goddamn, you know what.
Speaker 3:Because, it's complete, stop it. There you go, there you go, justin. That's what's up.
Speaker 2:They're going to have to pause the podcast on this one and write it down because that's a good one right there.
Speaker 4:Okay.
Speaker 2:Thank you. That should just be authentic self answer the question honestly and if that's the right person for that person, then then so be it. There, you go All right. What's the next question, Justin?
Speaker 1:Second question is when is the right time to have joint finances? If ever, never? Or do you have an alternative option?
Speaker 2:Yes, I got a good yeah, I got a good yeah, I got a good alternative. I got a good alternative. Leon is the okay brother. You've, you've, you've, you've been successful.
Speaker 3:You have investments, your real estate, do so what's your answer? So if I'm ever asked to advise people on what has made my marriage successful, the first thing I tell them is that I have never co-mingled finances with my spouse.
Speaker 2:Really.
Speaker 3:Or spouses, ever Spouses. So I'm on my second. Okay, all right, and we'll get into that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but this one's lasted like 18, 19 years, so okay.
Speaker 3:So the reason for that is because most marriages end because of Money Finances. So the biggest problem I had is that if I'm the primary breadwinner and we're mingling finances and I want to go spend $500 of money that I made and you telling me, no, I can't spend it, it's going to be a large problem for me. Right, where I came to a medium is is that okay, we're going to decide who take care of what bill? Whatever you make and you want to spend, you make. Whatever I make and I want to spend, I make. So that way. That way we don't have an argument on if I want to spend extra, go hang out with the fellas or this, that and the other, you can't tell me we don't have money.
Speaker 3:No, the bills are paid. Now. If you want to go hang out with your girls and you don't have the money to do that, that's on you. Now. If you want to come back and ask me hey, can I? You know, can you give? That's a whole nother question. But to tell me how to spend money that I made, that's not, that's a deal breaker.
Speaker 2:Are you the primary and have you always been the primary breadwinner? You make the most, okay, so do you think that it makes her uncomfortable if she doesn't have enough to ever ask you?
Speaker 3:Absolutely not. My wife can come and ask me for anything, and that's, and that's the agreement we have. You know, I don't. It's not what's mine is mine and what's his is mine, or what's hers is mine, it's you know can she ever? Grab the card or she always have to ask. I mean, from the standpoint of it being in my wallet, yeah, you probably need to ask me, but if you, say hey, babe I need, then I'm just gonna go ahead grab it out here go go, do what you need to do, yeah you're very traditional in traditional in that sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, like I said, I've known you a while. You're very traditional in that sense. D what's your take on it?
Speaker 4:Well, the right time is the right time for you guys, have conversations, build a foundation, how you want to run your lives. The right time for me and my wife. I met my wife in 2001. We got married in 2006. I got engaged in 2005. The first day we got engaged we opened a joint account and we never have a separate account ever since.
Speaker 2:Okay, so one account.
Speaker 4:One account. Well, now we have several Right, but we just kind of pocket them right. This is for entertainment, this is for my daughter's dance studio, whatever extracurricular activities, and these are for the bills, savings, investment, this, whatever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you have your business account as well.
Speaker 4:Absolutely. We have a business account as well. And then I'm like, hey, I want spending money. I have 12 bases, I might want a 13. That's my Guitar bases.
Speaker 2:Bass guitars, baby Bass guitars, that's right, yeses bass guitars, baby, yeah, basses, that's right, you have 12 yes, sir and they're not cheap. What's it now?
Speaker 4:most expensive one is $5,500. Okay, least expensive is $300.
Speaker 3:So there's no, really if it sounds good if it sounds good
Speaker 4:it's good to go. Yeah, but we had an understanding right. We don't live above our means. We like to shop, we like to look good, we like to go out to eat, but at the same time we had a foundation in 2005. That's the way it's going to be. We never had a problem and I don't think that's a wrong answer. But you guys have to figure out what you guys want to do. I don't know I could live any other way right now because actually my wife keeps me honest when it comes to finances.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Only thing I would say is I think there is a wrong time, and the wrong time is when you're just casually dating or you like each other enough and you're all infatuated. There's lust, there's love, there's whatever. There's those butterflies, shit is early and you go and open an account. Now, if your goal is not to get married because you don't believe in marriage, whatever, it's a different story, right, but we're talking about the traditional person is going to get married at some point.
Speaker 2:I don't think that you should do anything until you either engage, like you said, or I would even say, officially married. It worked out for you really well. From you know you were married one year after your engagement, so it worked out really really well. But I think that some people are a little, they jump the gun and it gets messy. But if you decide to have a life together and you're going to have this marriage, then at that point I think it's the prudent time to move forward and join finances, but not before.
Speaker 1:I'm very similar to you just in the way like my father was, like the NFL player. My grandfather was a highly successful businessman, traditional breadwinner, stay at home, wife, a lot of kids. That was it. Now, in saying that, though, I've also come to terms with, like a alternative option to where I think it's best that there's yours, mine, ours, right, because ours is going to be for our kids, ours is going to be for our dates, our trips, our things. But then there's also mine, because two different aspects go into that.
Speaker 1:The first one is surprise, right, because imagine if your wife she comes and surprises you with a $5,000 vacation and you're like where did $5,000 come from? My account, so, or our account in this case. But the second thing is the underlying motive that will be revealed when that conversation gets had, because conversation and transparency eliminates all ego. So the second you have that conversation, you go well, listen, I don't want to have a joint account, or I'm going to have my money, you're going to have yours. And the second she goes well, why can't I get access to your money? And your answer should always be you got access to me. You shouldn't worry about the money you got me. The second you need it, I'm going to provide. I'm going to stay true to my word. No-transcript, you didn't already sign any agreements or do anything. That's going to stab you in the back dropping gems over here, brother hey, back to question number one.
Speaker 4:What do you bring to the table? Right yeah, so that's whenever? Was that you? You know what I mean. Was that what you expect me to hear? That's what you were telling me when we asked me that, when I asked you that question, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Next question, brother number three is how do I explain to a man the importance of therapy when he's uncomfortable with telling a stranger his business?
Speaker 4:Oh brother.
Speaker 3:This one is up.
Speaker 2:Oh boy All right, so I'll take it on. I'll take it on. So therapy is very important, right? It's not the only solution, it's definitely very important. I think that his mindset is definitely wrong by him thinking that he's giving telling somebody his business, that person's professional, it's no different. You go to the doctor, right, you got to tell your doctor your business, because otherwise you're going to get hemorrhoid cream for a headache and that doesn't work, wow.
Speaker 1:It's a good analogy, though, but yeah, so you got to be able to share that.
Speaker 3:That's because you don't know your ass from the whole graph Exactly so you have to be able to tell someone for sure.
Speaker 2:But the thing is this, the thing is this right? So think about it this way there are sites where you can go and get therapy where you're not even being seen, you're not sitting on a couch with the peppermint, You're just basically doing it virtually. You know, I did therapy. I did it virtually, I did it in person. And if you're uncomfortable with that particular therapist and not working out for you, you could just get rid of that one and just get another one, and so it's done that way.
Speaker 2:Now her question is how do I explain it to him? And I would say this measure your words and know what you're going to say. So approach it from a place of love and empathy, and if you do it that way, a person should not take it the wrong way. If they do, then you've got the wrong person. But if you approach it from a place of compassion and your approach is hey, we all have things we need to work through, I'm working through them.
Speaker 2:I don't think there's a place where I'll ever heal, because it's not a destination, it's more of a journey. I'm going to have the wound, but if it's capped over, at least I can continue and I can progress. I think that there are some things that you need to work through, that I want to be here for you, but I don't think I'm a professional. I can't fix it. I can't. I can support you. There are things that you need to work through to for us to progress and get to a place where we're both happy and not have to take it out on each other and explain that there are avenues to do it in a way where he's comfortable and he should be okay with that. It sounds a little ignorant to me when someone says I don't want to tell somebody my business. I'm not even sure what the hell that means. Who are you talking to Pick it back?
Speaker 4:on what you said. I think you're correct, but I think there's a hot button for everything right? Myself, I didn't even know I had trauma because I didn't think my dad, I didn't think my dad loved me at all, Just being a culture.
Speaker 2:Wow yeah.
Speaker 4:I will tell you the biggest whooping that I got. It's crazy and I remember because when I was in school I was kind of smart. It was me and this one girl. If she doesn't get first place.
Speaker 2:I get first place back and forth and I want to go ahead and explain this to people who are not Haitian, and I talked about this on another podcast. In Haiti, they rank the kids in school. So there are 30 kids in school. The person with the highest cumulative average is going to be number one and number two, and number three and number four, and so you know who the best in class is and who the worst in class, and your parents know as well. So when you go home with a report card and you're number 29 out of 30, they don't even care if everybody got A's. You know, hypothetically you could have a class where everyone's done well, but this guy's a genius, he's going to beat me. He's going to do A+++.
Speaker 4:I was going from primary school to secondary school and my dad told me I understand you and Cecil that was the girl who was taking one when I didn't take it she was like, well, you better be number one. I'm like okay, well, I got to get on it right. Bam, I was number one. Got home happy, showed my dad my report card First time I see this guy smile in a long time and he was like go away from me. My mom was happy. I think it was. She think I was going to get a gift, a son, whatever man my dad pulled up in there.
Speaker 2:Whooped you, whooped me. You were number one, number one, he smiled.
Speaker 4:My mom pulled. It was like why. It was like he's got to realize what it would be like if he wasn't number one. Oh, my God, he wanted to show you what it would be like, because he already made up his mind.
Speaker 2:That he was going to whoop your ass, so he doesn't want to miss the opportunity.
Speaker 4:It wouldn't feel good for him. That is beyond abuse. So just to tell you, I have trauma. Yeah, so, and that's when I went to therapy, because I realized every time I had to make a call to Haiti. If I hear this guy voice in the background, I tremble. I was in my 30s. I couldn't speak to my dad on the phone yeah.
Speaker 2:And he's in a whole different country.
Speaker 4:Oh, that's a dude that I love, and I know he loves me because of what he does for us, but when it comes to stuff like that'm like man. I question it. So I had to go to therapy, uh, but I had to be really led to that right, because I didn't know what therapy was broken, hating none of.
Speaker 2:Well, you know what it is, but that's right. Traditionally it's not something we do, we're tough, and if we do it we're wusses.
Speaker 4:So yeah it was my wife, because every time I would be on the phone she was're wusses. So, yeah, it was my wife, because every time I would be on the phone she was like that was your dad, right? It was like yeah, you. She was like you only spoke to him for 30 seconds, but you speak to your sisters and cousin like. And I broke down and told her I'm like this, I just can't my body tense up, yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and she was like you know what you have to work through, that you could speak to people you know, because I understand it's trauma.
Speaker 1:Yeah a lot.
Speaker 4:And then I had to go through that. Now I feel free. Yeah, I could speak about it. But also I have something in me that I regret, because when my dad passed on before I made peace, so now I'm like, wow, I could have, I could have been in a better place with my dad if I knew about therapy before that, because I was holding onto all that trauma I didn't know how to release. So I would tell that person please find a way, choose your words wisely and make sure it's coming from a place of love. Find a hot button to realize maybe the smallest trauma, something he doesn't really think that's important, maybe that's what you use. Be like, hey, you know, like me it was the whooping, which is something that's a regular in my culture.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:You know what I mean, but that's what my wife used. She was like, hey, it wasn't your fault and it wasn't your dad's fault either. That's the culture. That's just that's what they know. Maybe that's what he went through.
Speaker 2:And then he never got help for it. I talked about this, too, before I talked about the fact that my dad had a lot of challenges, you know. So, yeah, I heard that.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So the shit that I dealt with was pretty crazy, but he dealt with some crazy shit himself and that shit is generational. And so, to answer this young woman, man, we, you have to find that place, like you said, find the hot button and maybe you don't know what the hot button is, but you know there's something there absolutely, and just get him to understand that you care enough about him, to say this to him and, and hopefully he'll take heed and go for it. Men, in general, we've been through some shit. We deal with it, everyone has but the problem is that we've always been trained to not emote right, we've always been trained to just kind of keep the shit and bottle it and be a certain way or whatever.
Speaker 2:You got to be strong, we just need to be human, and we're not always allowed to be human, so there needs to be a place where you need to unpack that, yes, and that often is going to be best served when you see a professional.
Speaker 1:There's two different situations, right, you can tell a person that they need therapy and they're mature enough to not need it. Or you can tell a person they need therapy and they're too narcissistic to not need it. Because narcissism, which gets very falsely categorized, is more so the outweighing of their opinion versus the truth. Right, it's like saying, okay, well, that's blue, but I think it's green, so it has to be green for everybody. That's narcissism. So when a girl would tell you, hey, you need therapy, but you're mature enough to have worked through your problems with therapeutic ways, talking to your friends, playing a game, going to the golf course, that's you being mature enough to address the trauma or the therapy needs yourself on your own time. Because oftentimes a therapist can be who, what, why, when I'm paid by the hour, not by the solution. So now you're sitting there on the fifth session with the same problem, because I'm blessed to have great friends. I've only had one coach in my life and this coach great dude, amazing dude he had a session with me that he just DM'd me, said I want to do it for free. I get on the call with him, we're talking for an hour and I mean he tells me the supplies that I need was pen and paper, water and tissues. And I did not cry because instead we got to the end of the call and he said you don't need me, which I respected even more because the therapist is going to say you always need me. This was a difference in him. He said you don't need me because if you had my coaching and my inner work that I do, you would be adding a sixth Rolex to the collection of five. It's nice, but you don't need it because you're systematic, you're based on good principalities to where, if I come in and try to give you judgment without knowing your life plan and alignment, I may throw you off of that and that's not ordained from that point. That's my plan, not your plan and God's plan.
Speaker 1:So having those good people is what caused me to be in a situation of like if a woman tried to explain the importance of therapy to me. Why do I need to tell a stranger when I've already told my friend or I've already talked to myself, or I've already been through the Bible and figured out a verse that connect with me and convicted me to overcome that problem or that mountain? Because the big thing is, some people do need it. Some people have serious trauma. Ptsd is the highest example of that, because people's body tenses up when they encounter something. That's what needs to be addressed.
Speaker 1:And if a man denies that it's narcissism because he's like, nah, I don't need it, well, his opinion's overriding the truth of whenever that conversation happens, even across countries, he tenses up. That's narcissism. But for me I was like, oh, my trauma's my dad. Every time I'm with him I'm laughing, loving, training, doing all these good things, but I just don't see him, besides a couple of times a year. That's self-imposed. You should be able to achieve the maturity to work through that.
Speaker 1:So I think there's two different sides to her question. Right, it's the man in questioning, as far as who you're even suggesting the therapy to. But then also it's how you're going about it. Is there even a high button to touch? Because if not, maybe you're projecting your own insecurity. Like what if a woman came up to me and said, or came up to me and was like you need therapy because you're too controlling, but she thinks I'm controlling because she tries to go out to the clubs with her friends every single weekend and wear a little mini skirt and I'm like I'm not going to take you serious. You go out with that. The door's locked when you're controlling. Now you're too opinionated. I'm like no, I'm principle-based. I know my reputation is my repetition and if my girl is repetitively out looking for attention, that's not my girl, you're not the person I'm looking for, but you need therapy.
Speaker 3:You didn't tell me you brought that to the table Right.
Speaker 1:Hey now.
Speaker 3:You knew she brought it to the table because that's what you're attracted to.
Speaker 1:That's what she showed up as Absolutely. That's it, and that's an external thing, that she's bringing to the table. External appearance Like that's, so big it's the internal things where you can see the respect, which is what I value more than anything, Like the respect, the peace, the avoidance of problems. All that good stuff, Because in reality, life, this one guys. But how do I raise my children without traumatizing them?
Speaker 3:while still healing myself. I can start by all means. So, as I told you, my dad was an old school guy and, like I said, he shows up in me some way every day and I laugh at it, right? So one of his biggest things, and I can tell I think I had this conversation with you before, but the first time I heard my dad tell me he was proud of me was May 21st 1995. You know why I can remember that exact date. You may need therapy. You remember that. That's crazy. The reason why I remember that exact date is that's the day that I graduated from college. Wow, that was the first time I ever heard him tell me he was proud of me. What that did for me was it made me tell my daughter that I'm proud of her.
Speaker 3:Now, not for everything. Going back to background, my mom was a teacher, got her master's, did all her doctoral work straight A student in everything. She did my dad engineer straight A student, right, that wasn't me, I'll just say that. So I understood the perspective of where they come from, where it was. I'm not going to praise you for being average or for doing what's expected, because now it becomes. When I do praise you it doesn't mean anything because you've been. You know little. Jimmy always gets the ribbon just because he participated. That's not the household I grew up in. That's not the household my daughter grows up in. No, you have to show me the exceptionalism, because other than that, you won't know the difference between average and exceptional. Because of that, I have found a medium to where I let her know how proud of her I am. I let her know I think you're beautiful.
Speaker 2:Again, justin, I hope you'll be honest. Here was how do I raise my children?
Speaker 1:without traumatizing them, while still healing myself.
Speaker 3:So if I had to say so, where I was going with that, it was if I had to to say my trauma was my trauma was that I never knew or felt like my dad was proud of me, like I always had to do exceptionally well in order to get that right, in order to get, yeah, in order to kind of get that validation right, because I had gotten to a point in life where I told you know my parents, I mean well, I told myself I don't give a fuck what these two think, as long as I'm happy, that's all that matters. And I did that young because it was like oh, you got an A. I mean, you should have got an A plus. Oh, you got a, you got a B. It should have been an A.
Speaker 3:And so it was like well, damn okay, I'm doing the best I can, and if it's not good enough for y'all, okay, cool, because y'all ain't gonna drive me crazy and I don't know where. That was just an internal thing within me that I learned early. They're like fuck it, you don't know where the bar is, right, yeah? So it's like okay, I'm happy. So as long as I'm happy with it, that's all that I care about.
Speaker 2:You're going to create trauma, no matter what you do. To a degree yes, to a degree right, it's not necessarily trauma, right, because it's levels to it. But what you have to try to do is pull out the best out of them, because there's so much good in them, and pull out the best out of them and try to minimize the bad, because it's good and bad in all of us. Awareness matters. So if you're looking at it and saying, well, this is kind of what you said, leon, this is what happened with my life and I see my own father in me. So therefore I'm going to adjust to raise my kids a certain way, and it keeps getting better and better and better. But the first thing was awareness and you noticed it and you realize certain things. I've mentioned this before, where I learned how to raise my kids by watching my dad and learning what not to do. So that kind of helped me in that way. So there's no manual right for parenting. But I will say one thing is damn, wait, sometimes. Wait.
Speaker 2:I just think that a lot of young people are too eager to I don't hear. I want to get myself together. I want to get myself right. I want to fix things that are wrong with my life. I want to make sure I'm on the right path. Then I want to date, to get married, and then I'd like to start a family.
Speaker 2:What I hear often from young people, especially young women, is I want to have a baby and I'm like, well, that's that's. You're about to start trauma right there because your plans are backwards. Right, but if you already have the child and you already have you know you're, you're a young woman, you have, you have kids. Here's one thing you can absolutely do Be careful who you bring around your kids. So if you're going to start dating man, you got to be really, really careful. You got a young daughter. You're going to bring some men around that child.
Speaker 2:You need to be careful because a trauma is something that you could be inviting into your own home. So you have to discern what matters more to you. Is it the fun? Is it you need that companionship, or is it taking care of that kid and protecting that child? So be really, really careful with that.
Speaker 2:Bring someone around your kid, but take your time to do it. Make sure you understand, make sure you've gone through. As you said, delva, you know all of their representatives and you can never, never, never, really, truly, truly know a person. Right, because God knows what happens when they're, when they are in the elevator by themselves. Right, because we all do that little dance and no one's ever seen it, right. So you need to make sure you have done everything you possibly can and then when you bring that person around your child for the first time, for the second and third time they're obviously never alone, but you bring them together. You need to be watching without watching. You need to be watching the things that are not super obvious. You need to listen to the things that are not being said.
Speaker 1:Kind of like what you said, like I learned what not to do for my dad, but then also I like because I can't speak on it, but I can speak on what I've seen my father do, because he came from like the harshest of harsh, from Commerce City to where it was a spam. You're practicing football on a basketball court and you're pulling down the oven to get some, some heat, but like all of his siblings, bad in jail trying to stab each other with spoons.
Speaker 3:Stupid like, not even stupid as a compliment ignorant quite literally, but because if you don't know a spoonful, you got bigger problems, right but but this was the thing is like he.
Speaker 1:He grew up so underprivileged that he tried to overcompensate with the privilege that he gave to us to like as we're going up in the million dollar home, he thinks like that's it to where. Like he would be obviously not there for us and present for us. I didn't understand the concept of a provider that's obviously not having his time back to give to us but also, at the same time, every time he was around or if I ever spoke about my dad, he was Superman because he had come over. He would be doing backflips off our diving board and going with us in the lake and fishing or just playing football with us in the field. But he also had some of that trauma from his dad, who was in the military, of just like hard, hard, hard. So like the things that he would always tell me he can't just give me good, he would have to give me good. With the bad which I love because it's a competitive spirit in me and that's the fire that keeps me going is like he'd be like, okay, you're doing good, but then next week I'll do something bad. He'll be like I'll go send you back to that school and make you look like a pretender and I'm like, ooh, he got that fire in me Because this is the number one thing. It's like the competitiveness. Even my sophomore year we had come back from the bus. We just lost our playoff game. Everybody's going home emptying their lockers. I'm on the field with the DB coach, backpedaling, working on drills, and the field's muddy because I just had it in me. It's like the if factor.
Speaker 1:He created that intentionally, but he also tried to do the intentional stuff to not be like his dad, because he didn't just talk to me where I was at or where he was at. He spoke to me where he wanted me to be, where he wanted himself to be. So, like for anybody that's trying to raise their children without traumatizing them, while they're still healing from this stuff, while they're still stuck in the battle, it's like speak as if you overcome it. Speak as if you want that person to not go through the same battle, because the inverse brings gratitude. It's like if you suffer from being poor your whole life, well, don't talk to your child and always scare them with money words or with money conversations. It's like speak to the inverse. That's going to bring the gratitude.
Speaker 1:I always say that for everything, like if you're going from fat to skinny, you feel good. From poor to rich, you feel good. So if you're always traumatized by this, speak about that and watch how not only it makes them better, but it probably heals you as well, because you're taking the right actions. Oh, hell, yeah. Next one this is a good one, it says. As a young woman with not much guidance or good role models of the kind of woman I want to be around, how do you advise I stay feminine while doing the things I need to do to take care of me?
Speaker 4:The first good thing I could see in her question is that she realizes she needs a change. Right, because maybe she has to work what she does, she has to live what she lives. She has to operate what she does. If you know that it's not good for you when you leave there, change your circle. You know what I mean. Whatever that is, it's the opposite of where you are right now. If they're not feminine enough for you, get counseled by somebody you think is more feminine, and not even when you leave there.
Speaker 1:When you're there, when you're at university, you got a bunch of feminine girls. You got a bunch of relationship therapists like just yeah, that's very true that's very true.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of women on on, you know, on social media, that actually just preach that. So if that's something that you'd like to emulate, just listen to them, because I've heard a few of them and very impressed and I'm just like, yeah, that's the kind of woman that you know a masculine man would want you don't have to wait till you change cities or change environments to change the product.
Speaker 1:You have all these tools and resources utilize your resourcefulness.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna say one more thing about that. You know, as a woman being around and you don't have role models. Here's something that I actually taught this way back when I had a sales team and I gave each one of my sales guys an assignment and I told them to go out and find a mentor, right? And they were like well, why do I find one? You know, do I have to pay for it? And you'd be surprised, right? Well, it all depends on the environment. So what they did is they all got a LinkedIn. They all had like 500, 600 connections because that's what they call them on LinkedIn. These are all professionals, right? No one's on there doing a little trendy dance, no one's doing stupid shit on there, right, it's all a professional environment. It's not fun, but that's why it's LinkedIn, right, so it's kind of boring, but Right so it's kind of boring. But if you go on there, you find other people that are at least from your perspective. They are already where you're trying to go.
Speaker 2:If you reach out to some of these people, all these guys, by the way, ended up finding a mentor for life. They ended up connecting with someone. All they did was you know, leon, tell me how you would react, right, if you received a message from a young man and you're super busy and I'm not sure if you have the time for this. Maybe you're one of 10 people they sent this message to. Hey, I've checked out your profile. You're very impressive. I like what you've accomplished. Maybe mention something in particular that they had an award, that they had won a speech, they had given a keynote, they had done whatever it may be, and they mentioned it. So these women should be doing that. Reach out to that person and just say I was wondering if you would have maybe 10 minutes a week where we can have a conversation. I'd like to learn from you and see if this is something they're willing to do. I will tell you, a lot of people will find that to be. I could find 10 minutes a week to talk to a young person who gives me a call.
Speaker 2:So if a woman is on LinkedIn and she's kind of doing her thing and she's killing it, then you young ladies are looking and you're seeing that person and saying, hey, let me reach out to her, let me send her a message, see if I can ask. And now you can discuss goals, you can discuss big picture. It's not going to get super granular, but you can talk about certain things that will be very beneficial for you. You can tell this person your goal and then next Wednesday because you talk each Wednesday for 10 minutes she's going to hold you accountable. Do you know how hard you're going to work to make sure you don't disappoint this person, to make sure you're there so you can find mentors? If you're really looking for one, it doesn't have to be your auntie or your mom or anyone in your environment. You know where you need to be going. Find that person.
Speaker 1:I was going to say make sure you want to swap lives with them. Like that's the end, all be all is like, if you're going to take advice, not with a grain of salt, but put your life on that, like you're going to be like, hey, I'm going to listen to what you say and actually apply it, correct, test it. It's like, okay, well, if I do what you did, am I happy if I became you? Am I happy if I had your relationship? There you go. That's the biggest thing when you're picking the seeds that you're going to put in your soil is what type of garden do they actually grow? There you go.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean it's different for this generation than ours because of the advent of social media, where I mean I don't like the term followers, but if you're going to follow somebody, follow somebody positive, right. Follow somebody that follows somebody that is living the life that you want to live For sure. That you know is living the life that you want to live, for sure. So I mean, that's what I've always been told is that you know, if you don't have the role models around you or in your circle that you want to be like, then you need to broaden your circle, correct?
Speaker 2:so change circles also go change them all together.
Speaker 3:So if I'm this young lady you know and you're into social media and then start following the feminine characters that you know you want to, that have characteristics that you want to incorporate, awesome To close it out.
Speaker 4:I would say just also be careful to that young lady, because the word feminine in the modern woman era it's taboo right.
Speaker 4:So if you want to be feminine, just know what comes with that, because being feminine, that's just because you're going to wear a dress as opposed to a pair of jeans. Okay, it's more than that. Okay, I'm not saying you're going to be a traditional woman, but being feminine means you're soft, you're agreeable, you listen and we listen to each other. But you understand, when you respect your man, you speak with a different tone than you speaking with your friends. It's being feminine. I don't know if they really understand what they're asking. Being feminine, it's not hard, but it's different than what it is, what it used to be, probably like 40, 50 years ago, than what it is now, and I will tell you, like the women, that I know a lot of them, most of them, in fact.
Speaker 2:they want to be feminine. We just have to create a space for them to be feminine.
Speaker 2:So that's our job to do so. But the women, as you understand to your point, they need to understand what that is and what it means. Right, you don't always have to just be that person. And here's the thing. It has nothing to do with weakness, because the women that I know who are feminine, including my wife. She is the strongest person I know, absolutely she is the strongest, literally the strongest person that I know. It has nothing to do with physicality. It has nothing to do with anything other than the fact that this is someone who has fortitude, she has intellect, she has a strong mindset, and yet she's feminine.
Speaker 4:Be strong minded, not hard headed there you go there, you go.
Speaker 1:Like you said, it's not hard but it's not easy.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for joining us this week. We appreciate you for sending it in your questions. I want to definitely thank my guests. They were both insightful, informative and if you feel that this has helped you in any way, do me a favor right now. Stop what you're doing, pause and go ahead and hit that follow button for me. Also, share the episode with at least one of your friends that you feel this would help as well. Keep in mind this is a three part series, so this was only part one. We'll come back soon with part two and three. We look forward to you joining us again. Manhood matters, baby. We out you.
