Manhood Matters Podcast
Conversations around challenges dominating a man's journey through life. These topics are explored by real, everyday friends, with a lot of experience... And we have the occasional expert guest.
Manhood Matters Podcast
Taking Questions From Women 30 & Under (Chapter 2)
Can accepting infidelity change the very fabric of our relationships? We tackle this contentious question head-on, diving into societal double standards that often judge men and women differently when it comes to promiscuity. Through an exploration of traditional gender roles and biological differences, we question how these perceptions impact the perceived value and fidelity within partnerships. Our conversation challenges listeners to reflect on the ways in which men and women are valued differently, with a particular focus on societal expectations and historical norms.
Setting the stage for successful relationships begins with clear standards and intentions. We discuss the necessity of having these early conversations, especially if marriage is on the horizon, to align relationship dynamics with long-term goals. In our dialogue, we emphasize the critical role of self-awareness in attracting partners who value commitment and the power of communication in forming meaningful connections. Join us as we emphasize the importance of self-worth, underlining how understanding one's own desires can prevent the pitfalls of casual relationships that don't align with one's true objectives.
We're thrilled to have Leon Cohen, Delva Michel, and Justin ‘The Mentor” Bradford join us as we navigate the intricacies of recognizing relationship potential and emotional healing. Through personal stories, we explore the journey of identifying a life partner and the necessity of discussing trust and emotional vulnerability early on. We debate the complex interplay of personal responsibility and fault, especially in cases of infidelity, and deliberate how maturity and self-awareness can guide responses to relationship challenges. This episode invites you to ponder the essence of loyalty and integrity, encouraging you to create a safe emotional space in your own relationships.
Disclaimer: If you are dealing with a mental or medical issue please consult a professional. We are your friends, uncles, brothers, but not licensed therapists.
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Host: StéphaneAlexandre
IG: @stephanealexandreofficial
Music by Liam Weisner
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Action. So I will tell all women it's the first time you give a man license to cheat. You've given him license to cheat for a lifetime, so if you accept that, then know that it's going to be accepted. Ongoing. It's a new foundation you created, right, because you moved the bar, correct, agreed. The next part of it is, though, even if it quote-unquote is your fault you have to make the decision on whether or not you're going to stay in that relationship, because now you've moved the bar on it right maturity aspect.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so is he the man for you? Maybe, maybe not sure.
Speaker 3:Next last question what's going on everyone. I am your host, stefan. Thanks for joining us again this week. We are answering questions from the ladies under 30 years old. We are ready to dive into it and just help you out as much as possible. I am joined today by one of the most traditional, smart individuals I've ever met, leon Cohen, who is not only successful in business, but also in his marriage going strong 18 years. Also, delva Michelle, my little brother from forever ago, is here with me, who has not only a strong marriage of 19 years, but his wife is his business partner, which is really, really cool. And lastly, we have a man whose stoicism is only surpassed by his intellect Justin DeMantor, one of my personal business partners, who has an incredible IQ and EQ. Remember, this is part two of maybe a three or four part series giving you our feedback on the things that matter the most to you.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Manhood Matters.
Speaker 3:Let's get right to it next question is good.
Speaker 2:I definitely want to start it off. It says why do you think it's tolerated for men to sleep around, but if women do it, they're looked at as promiscuous? Do you have your water bottle?
Speaker 3:I do.
Speaker 2:Have you opened it? Not yet. Let me see it.
Speaker 3:Watch this you know it's not a video, right.
Speaker 2:Did you hear that though?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I heard you open the bottle.
Speaker 2:Good. Seal got broken. Right, nobody's drank this water. Right, it's pure, it's clean. Why do you think, biologically, women have something called their cherry gets popped but men don't? How can you tell if a man's a virgin?
Speaker 3:Anybody.
Speaker 2:You can't.
Speaker 3:I don't know if you can, but I don't know. He's going to bust in 30 seconds.
Speaker 2:That's a good one, but not all the time Hopefully you'll never find that out. I mean he asked me how do I know? That's funny. I'm taking that off. That's funny. That's funny.
Speaker 1:I'm taking that off, cut that.
Speaker 4:Oh, you're going to cut that. That's the viral clip.
Speaker 2:No, that's the viral clip.
Speaker 4:I could say no, ditty, so cut that.
Speaker 2:That's what goes viral. Cut that shit too. I thought it was open dialogue, my bad to that very point of of like, just the biological indifference. As men there is not as much emotion in sexual intercourse just because we are not the ones getting penetrated.
Speaker 3:Hopefully, right right these days, these days men are we're talking the traditional sense.
Speaker 2:Yes, this is a traditional-based conversation with OGs and the young Gs.
Speaker 2:So biggest thing there is like God created us for a certain reason. He was very intentional. He said he made no mistakes. Everything was purposeful. There was hunters, there was gatherers. Everybody is assigned a role and for a woman, what is she valued as, or valued for, I should say her past? Cause what is a man valued for his future? These girls don't want a bum, a lazy man, a broken down vehicle that's not going to take them very far, cause we know that they want an ambitious man, a man with goals, a man with a brighter future than his past. We don't want the woman that's been with the whole football team and now she's been with the basketball team and now she's still at the club and now she's all trauma, but now she wants to settle down with the good man.
Speaker 3:That's interesting, because it's crazy that I'm hearing it from someone so young, because I've never heard that perspective. Men are valued for their future. Women are evaluated, appreciated, I would say, based on their past. Absolutely Interesting concept, yeah.
Speaker 2:Because also, it doesn't just come with the physical penetration of sexual, and of course it's more so the mental penetration that comes from that relationship, that comes from that trauma, that comes from that abuse. All those things factor in and they build a character, strong, that's not constantly jumping ship. We're talking about all these good qualities, but a woman that slept around with all these different men. She becomes more manly because now she's the hunter, Now she's all these things that we as men are taught to be and are forged to be. But as a woman she's supposed to feel protected, feel peaceful. The more times that she slept around, the more relationships that she's been in it's, the more damage the goods are. No man wants to go onto the lot, pay $100,000 for a Lamborghini, drive it off the lot, turn it on. It's a new car and that thing got 140,000 miles on it. I think that no, go ahead.
Speaker 3:No, no. I'm dying to hear what that sigh was about.
Speaker 4:I agree with your point. I'm just going to go another step. I don't think a lot of women understand, because let's just ask the question who holds the access to sex? The woman. So which means we hold you to that standard. If you just give it away for everybody, you lose value. Okay, 100%, we hold access to relationship. So which means when we're looking for a partner, that's a criteria we look at. I'm not saying it's really tolerated, we just frown upon. When you have so many by, the count is high. Because you hold access to it, we can't take it legally.
Speaker 3:Okay, yeah, we're all good dudes here, man Okay.
Speaker 4:We can't take it, we can't have it if you don't give it to us. So when you open it up to everybody, you decreasing your value.
Speaker 2:There's such a good saying for that to interject real quick.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:They say a lock that can be opened by every key. It's a horrible lock Absolutely. But a key that can open every lock as a master key, yeah man.
Speaker 4:So if you go around doing it with everybody, and some men are okay with that.
Speaker 3:Born stars get married, you know right and the guy knows. But what are you looking for? Essentially Because you're going to have to one day look at that dude that you absolutely want to be with, and whether or not that person is going to want to be with you is going to depend, like you said, on your past.
Speaker 2:And his point's good because it's the dynamic right. Our perception is we want the woman that no man has had, Right? That's our perception Almost impossible, but the least that's what we want. And then what a woman wants is the man that everybody wants. They want what everybody wants. We want what nobody's had, because we know intrinsically that women have sex with who they want. Men have sex with who they can because, it takes more value.
Speaker 2:So if you're having sex with all these people, as a man, I mean you got to be more valuable. You got to have the place, you got to have the character, you got to have the game, you got to have the social status. All these things get built up from the ground. Why does a woman get had sex or have sex? Because something she's naturally born with her beauty. That's why it's much harder for a man's journey to the hero story than it is a woman, because a woman you can be born, be pretty just because you're pretty. But as a man you got to accomplish a whole lot. I think I look good. I've never been on a yacht.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you took who talked about the biology of it. Was it I? Was it Steph? That is so true in our country, right? And there's a thing If you've had many partners right and you've been being proposed to, usually the women go see another elder in the community, especially where I'm from, to know how do I keep myself healthy, close to being a virgin-like as possible? For the first time, I'm with my husband, because you understand the dynamic. It's not this society today. That's the way it's been for millennia.
Speaker 1:That was going to be my point. I'm sorry I stole your point. No, no, not completely, gotcha you. Actually, it's a good segue for me because the answer to that question is as old as the Bible. It's funny how society wants to hold on to certain traditions but totally reject others. Where I'm going with this is that women have a problem with men being able to do certain things that they can't and try to make an equal footing. It was never intended to be equal, so to try to view yourself in the same prism of a man, is the, was the? Is the false concept from the beginning. Right? There's an emotional connection with every man that you sleep, everyone, and I don't care what a woman says, oh, it was just casual sex no, it's emotional, it's also spiritual.
Speaker 2:There's there's energy exchange it is that's really good that's good, it's the emotional and logical debate because, like we both have different grounds, it's like a and logical debate because, like we both have different grounds, it's like a woman's more gifted, emotionally, right. They have more of an eq than men typically have, a more of an iq. So, like a woman being emotional, wait wait, hang on.
Speaker 3:I know what that means, but I'm emotional. Sure do you say we have more of an iq? Typically we lean towards it. Yeah, the logic side of us. I don't want it to be misinterpreted as before yeah, we didn't say we're smarter.
Speaker 1:We're saying that we lean towards it in the heat of the moment, right gotcha, we're gonna lean into our intelligence, meaning men are pragmatic and women are emotional.
Speaker 2:That's just, that's yes because the biggest thing here is like a man's gonna operate in the moment because logic is present. To a woman's point, it's like the second she has sex with one person. Well, now that past is going to be remembered, the future is going to be created. And it wasn't just in the present moment where she released and then she was like okay, now I'm done onto the next. It's a lot harder for a woman to actually be promiscuous but not have the damage that gets built up in that process. Good point. Next question, number seven, is what are some reasons why a man wouldn't see you as a wife, or wife material, but will still spend a lot of time with you?
Speaker 3:and sleep with you? Oh, she actually answered that question in her question, right? Because he's sleeping with you and spends time with you. He already has the goods. He doesn't need to see you as wife material. You've made yourself into non-wife material by accepting certain things.
Speaker 4:And if you move one question up just because you're giving me access to it. I'm not saying it's easy, but it's access.
Speaker 1:I'm just going to say I'm sorry, I'm just going to say simply for me it is the what is required. If you don't require anything of me as a man, just easy for me to be able to sleep with you, then you're going to get the bareness of what you're asking for. But if you're not requiring anything of me, why would I see you as anything other than a partner for sex? And then you know, like I said, my wife, in order for us to go to husband and wife status, there were certain requirements of me, which is she set those standards?
Speaker 3:and she set the bar and you had to right, you had to, you had to meet that yeah.
Speaker 1:And any woman that does not set a standard for herself and then for her mate is is fooling herself to think that this man is going to be with her. Men, by nature, are rule followers. Right, and what I mean by that is is that if there are parameters set for us, then we're going to work within within those parameters, whatever they may be, but if you don't set parameters, we'll go rogue. That's just. That's just what we are. I like that point, yeah you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:But if you don't have your own standards and rules, so yeah, I, I'll just do whatever.
Speaker 1:I'll do whatever, right? So you know, if there are boundaries, like don't call me after 10 o'clock because I ain't no booty call. Okay, cool, I know not to call her. Yeah, versus the woman who's like oh, you can call me anytime, guess what? Hey, it's two o'clock in. Oh better.
Speaker 3:Yet I'm downstairs. Come open the door.
Speaker 4:Right, it's going back to the point of conversations. Right, if you are looking for a husband, you realize you may not be looking for a wife, but you live together and he's sleeping with you. By the way, you're sleeping with him too. Well, you have the conversation and close access Problem solved. But if you continue to let it happen and you know he doesn't see you as a wife, I'm sorry. So who's?
Speaker 3:You're delusional, right, because are you looking for a husband? If you are looking for a husband, see, this is what I say. This shit drives me crazy because I don't understand. It seems simple now. I guess you know we've all been there, we've all made the mistakes, but you know I shouldn't say all, because this dude's younger than my kids and he's not making a stupid ass mistake.
Speaker 3:So it really is a question of maturity. It's a question of have you thought this shit through? Because if you are dating, what is your intention? If I'm dating to have fun, then cool, that's what I'm doing. If you're a woman and your intention is I want to be married, then you have those conversations. You gotta know At date one or two, and not to say, hey, as soon as you sit down with a guy, date one at Sizzlers, you're going, you know you won't be married. No, that's, don't scare anybody off like that. But what is your intention? The intention should be hey, this is what I eventually want in the future, this is what I'm trying to accomplish at some point, right, let's see where this day goes. But do you need to understand that? This is what my goals are?
Speaker 3:And if the man is being honest, then you have to be able to tell who that person is from those conversations. That's what dating is for. It's not just to go around and sleeping with people just like. Figure this shit out by talking to people, have conversations, have several conversations, meet several times, have a walk at the park with the person, see that person in different settings, different environments right, go to a play, go to a movie, do different things and then figure out what this person really is, and it's totally okay. You're not wasting your time. I think it's better. I think we're not putting enough of an emphasis on that phase of the relationship. That's where you can afford to miss, not after you shacked up with someone and now you're pregnant by this fool and now he's a loser, he's all these kind of.
Speaker 1:But I want to ask something of what you just said, right? So the biggest thing is this women, I'm gonna newsflash you, okay, a mature man knows early if your wife material or not and first five minutes and what his intentions see.
Speaker 3:I was gonna say first, you know, first week, first couple of dates, and he said first five minutes and I, and I agree 100%.
Speaker 1:If a man if a man, if I'll even go a step further, and it's a different timetable for every man. If a man in the first six months doesn't know your wife material or doesn't feel like your wife material, you'll know it by the way that he's treating you, where it becomes more casual than intentional when you're sleeping with this dude like you think you're.
Speaker 3:You know you're going to change something. You're not. You're giving up a piece of yourself, right? If you understand how precious you are, right, how powerful you are, how strong you are as a woman, and that's why I use as the term I just use because you obviously don't know this and you don't know this because no one told you, because you're not doing the work on yourself, you're not reading, you're not following the right people, but you're sleeping with this person. You're wondering why he doesn't think your wife material. I'm sorry if you could cut that out if you want.
Speaker 4:It's playing the victim, even just the question itself. He's sleeping with me. You're sleeping with him too, right? So I'm sorry, just like your point, justin. In five minutes we know quick story my wife. I met my wife in 2001, first date.
Speaker 3:I told her you're gonna be my wife. Dude, I hear that so much from a lot of dudes. It doesn't scare women away. Because it's like you, I love it. Because you were just like yeah, that's the man, that's the woman I want to marry. Well, you know what? I got, I got, I'm sorry no, go ahead.
Speaker 4:Go ahead with the. But we had a conversation. I said I have trust issue because my two previous relationship after three and four years that she did on me. I'm like you're going to give me some time. I need four years from you. If you agree with it, let's rock out. If you don't, that could be our last date. Guess what? After four years, I proposed she allowed me that time. We had conversation, we said it I'm like I'm not moving for my four years. It's not because I'm headstrong or I'm hard-headed.
Speaker 3:I need to do the work trust issues, yeah, which allow you to be a better man essentially for her, because you're not going to bring the bullshit and the baggage into the relationship right okay it just made sense. I just want to know. It's not me, yeah, but the conversation, though, was had and you knew it. But back to your point, you knew on date number one.
Speaker 4:Oh, five minutes.
Speaker 2:Same thing with my listen with my wife.
Speaker 3:I knew like we had a conversation, we talked and after, really, I'm going to say on her end, she ended up telling me later she was just like I think it was like the third or fourth conversation where she she got off the phone with me and she basically was talking to her daughter and she was just like I met my husband. She knew right, but I knew him before. She did right, you know, and I told her the same thing. I was like, of course I knew I was like this is the type of woman I want in my life. You know, if she had just allowed me to have all kinds of access in certain things you know, including sex, so just expose me to everything, Maybe I would have, you know, I would have seen her very, very differently.
Speaker 4:And I'm sorry. I don't want people to think I just saw her and I'm like you're going to be my wife. I I knew her before.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:You know we worked together. I've seen her, I watch her a little bit, a little bit. That sounds a little creepy, bro, no hey guess what it's.
Speaker 2:Sometimes that's what we do for what we want, right? It's 22 years later. Come on, he's a hunter, not a gatherer man.
Speaker 3:He's a hunter to all the stalkers out here. There's old man. Hey, let me tell you I would. She used to watch it for months. She used to work.
Speaker 4:But that's what, that's what the old, old time used to be you, you know you caught I know what you mean.
Speaker 4:Watch him a little bit she used to work at this leather store that has this big glass window. I used to just walk by just to see if she's. I'm like one thing I found about her that I like, going back to the what I like about her being so sexy all covered up. She used to wear tights all the time, turtleneck, I mean. She always cold. She was wearing glove in the store. Yeah, I didn't see much as far as like the physical right thing. You know what I mean. But I'm like, wow, there was you still.
Speaker 4:She was so sexy, I'm like yeah, yeah, I want that in my life, but I had to do the work to bring what she may want in a guy yeah, men know, in five minutes and put you in the category of increased association maintenance.
Speaker 2:Decreased association, because some relationships are on fun, some are on faith. Faith is like I'm gonna water. Of increased association maintenance. Decreased association, because some relationships are on fun, some are on faith. Faith is like I'm going to water the seed every day and I know the guard's not going to go overnight. I know we're going to be in here for four years. I know I'm not going to have the access that I would desire because I know the race I'm running, but with fun. Dude, I had a girl that spoke straight Spanish. No habla espanol, but after 53 days of Duolingo, I could, because she would want to go out and dance, she would want to do this, she would want to do that.
Speaker 2:This woman didn't speak a lick of English, but I'd be like you're going to be my wife Could never, but at the end of the day, you know, the thing that did not get done, that I would advise women to do is audit your interactions, not just your taxes, not just your finances. Audit your interactions. Like, hey, when we go on our date nights, where is he taking me? Are we just going to the bar getting drunk and back to his place? When we're going on date nights, is he bringing me to the church in the morning, then brunch with his Bible study? Then it's a different type of man. If you want to weigh the caliber, audit the interactions.
Speaker 1:Look at how he treats you, how he talks about you to his friends, though. So before we end that, it goes back to what I was saying about the creatures of comfort. You get comfortable in a relationship because you're comfortable with the man, but he has no intention of marrying you. That's how you end up at 10 years absolutely because you're just comfortable and you don't want to move on and you think something's going to change.
Speaker 2:Great point it's not going to happen. It's a definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting a different outcome. This question number eight is how long should you take from one relationship to starting another? Oh, that's individual. Yeah, so that's subjective.
Speaker 3:And it also depends on what happened in the last relationship. Well, let's say so. I want to create a scenario here. So let's say it was a long-term relationship, we're not talking. You dated someone for a year, you know, six months, whatever, and now you're single. How long should you wait? Cause maybe there wasn't a lot there?
Speaker 3:But let's say you had a long relationship with someone, three plus years. Let's say, in those three plus years there was joint finances, for example. There were some things that you had done and there was a lot there. Maybe you have a kid together, maybe you don't, but there was enough that connected you in more than a very superficial way, right? So let's say it was that relationship. So now the questions I ask how long should you take before you move into another one? I don't think that I have a number. I want to say you do need to work through the issues. You need to work through closure on yourself. You don't have to go grab the guy and be like, hey, we need to have an exit interview, but you do need to work through certain things. Right, I could have just said until you're ready, same answer Until you're ready?
Speaker 2:yeah, Even in short-term relationships.
Speaker 1:But how do you know, though? So, like Delvon, delvon said he needed four years, he knew what time he needed. Well, you go yeah and you know yourself and for me I needed. When I got divorced I said I wasn't going to get married again till I was 35. When that happened, I was we separated when I was 29 and I actually did get married at 35, so it was like a six-year window and there was a relationship in there and it was like that person wanted to press me and change me and try to, you know, surpass the timeline.
Speaker 1:And we broke up. I said, look, I told you when this started I'm just getting out of a marriage, I'm not getting into another one. Yeah, and if that's what you're here for and that's going to be your, your, your deal breaker, then the deal is already broken, because there's nothing you're going to do to speed up my timetable to fit yours, because there's nothing you're going to do to speed up my timetable to fit yours. Right, you know. So I would say that number is based upon, you know, wherever you feel like you need it to be.
Speaker 4:Yeah, don't rush it, but know yourself and know what needs to happen. I mean, I'm so grateful for my wife because I really didn't want to go into another long-term relationship. Then I would be in close to my 30s. Then I'm still dating. I was ready, but I needed that time to find myself because I wanted the next one to be the one and then she allowed me that.
Speaker 3:So from a female perspective, who's asking how long should she wait? And so you've worked through your issues, and I'll use it myself as an example. When I got out of my first marriage, I felt like a kid in a candy store. I was free, I was going to date, I'm in Atlanta, I needed to work through some things and I will tell you, when I met my second wife, everything was good, but there was some work that I hadn't done on myself and I needed more time. I didn't realize it then because I was angry, not because it had ended, because I was there for so long. I was so mad.
Speaker 3:Delha remembers me from those days, man, when we were in the band together. I was always stressed, I was always mad, I was unhappy, worst time of my life, right. So when I got out of that, I still would be triggered by certain things, and a quick and easy telltale sign would be if I lost my temper dealing with my ex Right. So that means that even though I'm totally over that relationship, I'm not ready to be in another relationship because I'm still carrying emotions from that, my own trauma, I'm still upset, or whatever it is, because I'm just like I hate the fact that I wasted all my time. I can't believe I was with this person and blah, blah, blah. So even the thought of her even just having a conversation about her. If I'm on the phone with her, I'm over here, I'm just like lashing out Now she and I we could have good conversations. She's cool, she's actually a great person. She just wasn't the person for me, right? So it had nothing to do with her specifically. We were never meant to be together and we were both trying to force a square peg in a round hole, or however the saying goes right. It didn't make any sense. And then I got to a point where nothing would upset me.
Speaker 3:It all depends on how you're feeling when you're thinking about the last person and are you still triggered by some of the things that's happened in that old relationship. Once you're past all of that, then you're ready for the next one. For some people it's three days. For some people it's three days. For some people it's three years. Do the work?
Speaker 4:I would say do the work. Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1:Some of the stuff you're never going to get past. It's just lessons that you hold and you keep.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:And I pray that it never happens where me and my wife ever separated. But I don't know that I would have the same emotions and internal struggle as I had leaving the first one, because the first one was a cataclysmic failure for me, because I was a person that wasn't used to failure.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:As you grow older you learn to have a perspective about events and failures and things of that nature Correct, and you move through them, but at 28 years old it was the toughest thing that I've ever had to separate from in life is another age where you think you know everything too.
Speaker 1:You know which is why I set the parameter that my next one wouldn't be until I was 35, because I'm a staunch believer in I think it's darwin's theory where you evolve every seven years. So I knew I was coming to that next transition and I didn't want anybody as a mate while I was going through that transition.
Speaker 2:Good deal, Next one brother, I'm going to ask it, then I'm going to answer it immediately. There you go, go for it. It says. Is it ever the woman's fault if a man cheats? Hell yeah, no, it's not. Let me give you an example.
Speaker 3:I give you multiple examples. No, I totally disagree with you, but I'll start on the first one cause and effect. So you said ever is it ever okay, so so remove ever from it, but no it's an ever. It is, it is. She did ask is it ever? A woman's fault if a man cheese ever.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you're you saying yes to, and I disagree so not just yeah, hell yeah, that's what he said. Don't forget the emphasis.
Speaker 2:No, I'm not agreeing, but that's what he said because to the point I mean, um, there's, I can give almost like infinite hypotheticals of the cause, literally of the cause. There could be a promiscuous woman that settled down from her past and invites a threesome in. That's cheating. She was like no, we're just drunk, we're from the you have to this in my bed.
Speaker 1:What kind of circles you hanging?
Speaker 2:out hypotheticals, a bunch of hypotheticals he said he partied in nashville.
Speaker 3:Yeah, a lot that was nashville lived in, but no, yeah she just casually invited.
Speaker 1:Hey, honey, I want to have a threesome tonight. What?
Speaker 2:but no, the thing could be her forcing that. Obviously there's two sides of the coin when you talk about the woman cheats on him first and it's almost like the pity that he's taking out by going and doing the same thing. But yet again, that can also be considered the man's fault, right? You can say it's the cause and effect and she caused it, but then he acted on it. So there's two sides of that coin and I can play the advocate of both.
Speaker 1:I agree with justin that there are certain circumstances when it is her fault.
Speaker 4:When it is her fault of course it's gonna be always sometimes somebody's fault, but I don't think it's always the women's fault and never, never, always, absolutely so we're not saying always right.
Speaker 3:So so you're saying that there are times where she cheats and it's her fault. Oh, he cheats, he cheats, I'm sorry. There are times that she cheats and it's her fault. Oh, he cheats, I'm sorry. There are times that he cheats and it's the man's fault.
Speaker 4:No, I'm really not agreeing with it, but I'm pretty sure, because what happened to maturity? We don't have to let somebody change who you are. I think we responsible for our own action Agreed, dude.
Speaker 3:That's what I was going to say. That's why I disagreed vehemently with what that? You know the answer? Because here's the thing, right, who I am is who I am. I'll give you a great example. I had my heart broken immediately when it happened. I said I'm going to be this kind of guy from this point on this I'm going to be, and whatever, whatever, right. And I was just ready to just like break hearts. That's why I was going to be, cause I was, you know, not happy with the way things had turned out for me. And then, through time and talking to the right people, and even just through meditation and realizing myself, but I'm not that way. That's not who I am. So what happened should not force me into being something that I'm not.
Speaker 4:But, seth, now I have some time to think about it. I have to agree with Justin because, yeah, you may not have the mental capacity to not let somebody make you do something sometimes, so a woman may cause you to cheat.
Speaker 1:It's going to be based off of cheating. How does a woman be cheated?
Speaker 3:Okay, so the 28-year-old me.
Speaker 1:If a woman cheated on me, I'm cheating on you back.
Speaker 3:No listen.
Speaker 2:I want to give the guy a reason. I know your point. I know, your point.
Speaker 3:So listen, you're talking to Steph today. Yes, right.
Speaker 2:It's a very different person.
Speaker 3:So to the ladies, listen to Uncle Steph.
Speaker 2:So here's what I'm saying right.
Speaker 3:And so today, and we all say this, we've all said this, youth is wasted on the young. If we can go back 20 years, 30 years, with what we know today, what kind of life we would have? We all say this so, with that knowledge, because the question is being asked of us at our age today is it ever her fault? If a man cheats? And I will tell you that I still hold on to the fact that it's not because I am who I am and you shouldn't govern what I do. Yeah, if you ask 20 year old Steph, this question of 25 is a very different reason. Right, I didn't need a reason, but the ever kind of.
Speaker 4:I'm going to give a good counter argument.
Speaker 2:The second he finishes. I know why you're agreeing with me, I'm going to wait till. He's finished with that, though.
Speaker 1:And I got it. Go for it. I'm good, okay.
Speaker 2:This is the reason why he agrees with me, because I know at first why he didn't. Also, because of what you said the responsibility. Responsibility and fault are two different things. It can sometimes be the woman's fault, but a man should always hold responsibility because a mature man is going to step out of the relationship because he got disrespected. Agreed, because you're a mature man, we're mature men, we know a boundary has been crossed that can never be built back up on. We get that. We move on and build a new foundation with a loyal woman, because loyalty comes from options and exercising faithfulness with said options. That's not a faithful woman if she had options and entertain them in any capacity. So that's a woman cheating. Now for a man to go back and cheat on her immature, yes, but does that change whose fault the cause was?
Speaker 3:because if I stood, stood up now, so the key word there, the operative word, was fault. Well, in that case I agree.
Speaker 1:I need you to go back and clarify what you mean by options, because that's going to get lost in this recording here.
Speaker 2:Options is great, because the more value you have, the more options you have. Right, because let me ask you a question, or I'll ask you two. A question about him. If he went into a store full of apples and every time he walked out with apples, will we go? Damn, that's a faithful man. We'd be like he got no access.
Speaker 3:Of course he's walking out with apples.
Speaker 2:There's no option Now if he walked down to the supermarket where they got apples, bananas and oranges and he still only came out with apples. That's a loyal man, yes. Why? Because he was tested? Why Because he had opportunity? Why Because, even with set options, he still choose the action of sticking to one set thing. If I was with the woman and I didn't have looks, money, status game, a good social circle, nice car, and I'm in Kansas, right, so I really don't got options and she's, like my baby's, so loyal. I love me some Justin and he loves him some me. Well, she don't know if I went down to Miami and I seen a Victoria.
Speaker 3:I may be a little different right, because now I got options.
Speaker 2:Now my money gets bigger and my looks get better, because now I can go to the gym and all of a sudden, now I start to get some game, because I learned from the OGs the way to navigate. Well then it's different. Well, the second that you went down to miami with him and he was your boyfriend, he cheated the first weekend. Why? Because now he got options. Now he went to the fruit market instead of just the?
Speaker 1:u market I like that, yeah, which is why ladies don't come to atlanta with me to the fall thing, because that was the question.
Speaker 2:It's like if I stood up and I tripped over your foot, I would say that's my responsibility. I should have looked for your foot and hit it, but it's your fault for sticking your foot out if you were.
Speaker 3:So the operative word again. She asked the question by saying is it ever a woman's fault, Correct? So then, in that case, the answer is yes.
Speaker 2:Maybe not responsibility.
Speaker 3:However, I will say to women to not take it upon themselves. Like, don't do dumb shit. But if you, if a man because it's not just a cheating right, because obviously it's, in that case you don't have the leg to stand on. But let's say the man cheats because of something else. Let's say he says I don't have enough sex with you, that's why I cheated. That's good, that's not your fault, right, there's a discussion to be had and we talk about how often yeah, what's worked, what works in our relationship, not so much what the status quo is, but what works in our relationship and that discussion is then keep to that. But if he says, well, I know we talk about three times a week, but I kind of needed a fourth and I stepped out because you're not willing to, oh, you don't dress this way, you don't do this, that's not your fault. I don't want a young woman to think that we're going out and we're looking for excuses and shit like that, because it doesn't forgive the action we're given a hypothetical extremities.
Speaker 1:So let's get to the root of that question. That question was asked because men have always said why wouldn't have cheated on you if you hadn't done this?
Speaker 1:true and so they begin to feel like well, is it really my fault that he cheated on me, or and is that a valid excuse? And then is that enough for me to change the action? So I will tell all women this the first time you give a man license to cheat, you've given him license to cheat for a lifetime. So if you accept that, then know that it's going to be accepted, ongoing. It's a new foundation you create, right Because you moved the bar Boom. The next part of it is, though even if it quote unquote is your fault you have to make the decision on whether or not you're going to stay in that relationship, because now you've moved the bar on it. That's the maturity aspect.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so is he the man for you? Maybe, maybe, not For sure. Next question.
Speaker 2:Last question, it says long one. My partner says he isn't comfortable crying to me or breaking down period Because women don't really create that safe place and use a man's vulnerability against them. How can I create that safe space? I know I wouldn't use anything against him. Is there anything I can do to make him more comfortable, or is it just a man thing to not cry or break down in front of their other? First of all, that's bs this is.
Speaker 1:This is the thing you don't really want to see.
Speaker 2:You don't want to see your man crying ever the second, your man cries or gets knocked out in front of you. That's not your man, right? Right, you're gonna be, you're gonna be knocked out so I mean you.
Speaker 1:You think you want to see him cry, but you really don't know. If he's sitting up there crying up over bills, then you're gonna be like what's wrong with it. But I will give you guys a self-example. That just happened. Right seven months ago I was in an accident and I ruptured both my patella tendons so I couldn't walk. I was in a wheelchair, couldn't wipe my own ass. You know it was a difficult situation. Just standing up for me brought me to tears. But I'm 18 years in. Even if I was six months in, it probably would have still brought me to tears. That physical pain and suffering to bring you to tears is different from you being an emotional wreck and just crying at the drop of a dime that's good so what I would tell women it would be the matter or the manner in which this man spouse is is emoting, so to speak.
Speaker 1:So if he's just an emotional wreck where he cries at the drop of a dime this, that and the other, he might want to have some concerns. The fact that I could be vulnerable in that situation with my wife strengthened what was already a strong bond because I knew that she wouldn't judge me because I was physically unable to control this at this point because of the physical pain. I was physically unable to control this at this point because it was of the because of the physical pain I was enduring, versus just being an emotional wreck, yeah.
Speaker 2:I want to tie that into this because that was great. It's like the. The matter of why he's actually crying is such a big indicator of the man himself.
Speaker 3:Is it because the sunset is so beautiful and he's just like he's crying? He's at the dolphins.
Speaker 2:Come on man. Yeah, that would be crazy. But now it's the woman's question of how can I create that safe space, for when it's an emotional thing, he can feel comfortable crying, or even in the sense of it's a physical thing, how can he feel comfortable enough around me to cry? You touched on a great because you said it's the time it's like that.
Speaker 2:I think it's zig ziglar who said it people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. Well, you're going to know a lot about me if you see me that vulnerable, if you see me cry, if you see me weep, all those things. I don't feel comfortable with you knowing that side of me. Unless I know you care. How do you know if a person's care From love, which is sacrifice, and from trust, which is through time? So if you want your man to feel like you're the safe space you got to give him both love and trust. If he doesn't have those two things with you, it doesn't matter. He's not going to feel comfortable. He'll go into a closet or a bathroom or turn around from you because he doesn't feel comfortable or vulnerable enough for you to know that side of him.
Speaker 3:That's why we walk out. Yeah, that's why we storm out. We we may want to go cry, but we're not going to do it in front of you. So we storm out and maybe it's. Or we redirect the emotion and turn it from sadness to anger and something else. We mask it. The true emotion is not even what you're seeing. You're seeing something else and there's something much deeper. I don't know that we have evolved enough as a society. Women have, or are capable yet of creating that space where that man can feel that he can show these emotions and feelings. Women say they want that, they want that emotion. They say, hey, show me all of you, show me who you are, show me who you are naked. And the second you do. You are looked at differently, biologically, I think. What happens is, I think that they feel unsafe because you're still supposed to be this armor and this shield.
Speaker 1:And then the shield is not broken because look at you I don't understand that question from the standpoint of why women want to see their men cry.
Speaker 2:Either it's movies it's too much hallmark movies. That's what it is. It's too much fairy tales, because you said it great and then you added on to it to make it the best. It's like the second a woman does see you cry. You're not the same man. You don't have the same shield, you're not the same protector, and to your point, why are you crying? Right, yes, yes, a parent died. You're crying, that's normal, right, yes, but like, hey, you know, like crying over her yeah, over her.
Speaker 3:Crying over a situation, crying over this, crying over her will definitely not, not fucking work, bro.
Speaker 2:And this is like my thing, because like go ahead now, go ahead.
Speaker 4:No, I was about to say I don't think I have that bone in my body to cry over somebody like that.
Speaker 2:No, and I've never had a girlfriend, so I've never been in that place of like yeah, but you're 12. Basically, wait a minute, wait a minute.
Speaker 1:Stop. Piece of tarpons.
Speaker 2:Never, what Never, I've had my dates and I've gone on dates with girls, meaning he's never given someone the title. Never given the title, never given the time, never given the attention, never because capacity, like I've always been busy doing.
Speaker 1:We can move on. Yeah, absolutely, we can come back to that, no, that and this next thing.
Speaker 2:We're going to come back to that. Okay, I'm emotional to an extent. People know me. I'm very futuristic, where I can reflect on the good memories, but I'm also beyond logical, like I'm just the hard ass, the person that's strict, static, and I know what's right from what's wrong, and I always try to be the righteous man we're called to be. That doesn't do anything. The only thing it does is put you in a weaker position as a man if you do that for the wrong reasoning, to tie all of our points in.
Speaker 1:What I will say, though as you get older, you are more in touch or vulnerable with your emotions. That's true, and the reasons I think it is for it has become that way for me is once my dad died, I was able to see perspective on mortality I don't even know if steph knows this. Like my dad passed away, he was 97 years old, so that means he had me when he was 50. So so the only gift I wanted for my 50th birthday was to spend my birthday with him, right, because we would have been the same age as when he had me, so he would have been 100.
Speaker 1:And my wife and my family understood the emotion that I had when my 50th birthday came and I didn't have a party, and they were like everybody celebrates their 50th, I don't want one. And they thought I would change my mind, and I did not. I didn't cry over it. It was another day. It came and it went, because the only present that I wanted I could not have it came and went, and they just still they kind of still talk about it.
Speaker 3:You know, like you know okay, I don't know, you know, I might but yeah you need to.
Speaker 3:I like parties, I like I need to come and I need to be over at the house. So that's what's up. But I, I definitely I agree with you. You know. You know I talked about this before I lost my dad, june of last year. Never had a chance to reconcile, never had a conversation, kind, kind of like what you said, delva. I just and I'm on the side of the highway, you know, not able to come home and tore up, you know, in ways that I never even thought possible, right. So, yeah, you, that showing that weakness of vulnerability and how you really feel, even in a space where you would think is safe, innately, we know not to do it and when we do do it, even though technically we're being told, yeah, you should, my experience and what I've seen with other dudes is, and even just talking to women, they'll tell you I'm not interested in seeing that shit. I don't know why I even asked for it.
Speaker 2:I want him to be soft. I want him to show something.
Speaker 3:I think what it is. This is what happens. I'll tell you what it is. What. What happens is this right, you take a guy like leon, for example. Leon is one of the most traditional, toughest dudes on the planet that I've ever met, does not waver, makes up his mind and I don't know who to change it. But if he says something's going to happen, I'm not even going to bother having a discussion with that dude because just forget it. Right, it's done.
Speaker 3:So when you have someone like that, who doesn't show emotion as a woman, you're going to try to pull that out of that person because he's too stoic, he's too strong, he's too hard, right, kind of like you just, and you're very stoic. In that sense, everything's logic, logic, logic. So you try to pull that out of that person. You're trying to find, as a woman, you're trying to find a way to communicate better and to connect better, or a vulnerability. Yeah, you think that's what you want, so you're pushing for it, and then that person releases and you realize, oh, I don't like that shit at all. Right, I don't like that. Who the hell is this? I don't know that there is a safe space that you can create for the, for that dude um, work on, you know, work on having those conversations, but, at the end of the day, understand that there is a reason. We as men are very, very, you know, hesitant to ever show you that side and a lot of time.
Speaker 4:The women are the number one reason why we're not like that, because they're always looking for somebody strong that side and a lot of time. The women are the number one reason why we're not like that, because they're always looking for somebody strong that could be a protector. If I'm crying every second, how the hell am I gonna protect you exactly?
Speaker 3:you know what I mean like, but at the same time, you know, what's really cool about these questions is each one could literally spark an hour-long discussion. We had so much more to say but had to kind of cut it down for the sake of time. We really appreciate you, ladies, sending in those questions and your thoughts so that we may offer our own expertise, wisdom and experience to kind of guide you through a lot of what you guys are going through. Please remember that this again is a three-part series. I'm saying three parts but honestly we still have 10 more questions to get through and we'll see. It might be a four-part series, but right now I'm going to say three and maybe we'll release a bonus episode middle of the week.
Speaker 3:If this has helped you in any way or if you have found it entertaining, even, or even if you just disagree, if you're just in your car listening to this and arguing and debating us, shoot me an email at manhoodmatterspodcast at gmailcom. Let me know why you agree or disagree, as your feedback is extremely critical and very, very important to us. And one more thing you can really do to help the show is share this episode with one person that this may speak to. You all know someone out there who is doing something that you might think is crazy and they might not listen to you, but another set of lips saying the exact same thing may go a very long way. Of lips saying the exact same thing may go a very long way. So make sure you guys check in next Monday and take part in the conversation, continuing our series on answering questions from women under 30. We love you, we appreciate you, we'll catch you next week. Peace.
