Manhood Matters Podcast
Conversations around challenges dominating a man's journey through life. These topics are explored by real, everyday friends, with a lot of experience... And we have the occasional expert guest.
Manhood Matters Podcast
The Five-Point Principle: Rebuilding Black Love From Scratch
Have you ever considered what a relationship truly means, beyond the obvious trappings of romance and attraction? The answer might surprise you, challenge you, and ultimately transform how you approach your partnerships.
In this eye-opening conversation, we dive deep with an author who's about to release his provocative book, "Who Took My Manhood and Left Me All Alone With Her." Drawing from his extensive background in holistic psychology and behavioral science, he breaks down what's happening in Black relationships today and why so many partnerships fail despite good intentions.
The distinction between a relationship and companionship forms the heart of this discussion. A true relationship, our guest explains, requires mutual commitment to MENTAL, PHYSICAL, SPIRITUAL, SEXUAL, and FINANCIAL growth – not just someone to spend time with or enjoy experiences alongside. This ***FIVE-POINT PRINCIPLE*** creates the foundation for meaningful partnerships that transcend superficial connections.
Most thought-provoking is his perspective on wants versus needs. This insight invites listeners to reconsider their own criteria for selecting partners.
We also explore why America stands as one of the few countries without a universal understanding of marriage, how historical trauma continues to affect Black relationships, and what it means to operate from a place of knowledge rather than uncertainty and fear.
Whether you're struggling in your current relationship, questioning your approach to dating, or simply curious about deeper human connections, this conversation offers wisdom that cuts through cultural noise to reveal timeless principles that might just save your next – or current – relationship.
Contact David at the3zupan@proton.me for more information about his upcoming book, with a tentative release in September 2025.
Email us at manhoodmatterspodcast@gmail.com
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Host: StéphaneAlexandre
IG: @stephanealexandreofficial
Music by Liam Weisner
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I said because with you, every time I talk to you, you're always pursuing some cat, based on what it is about, the things about him that make you want him. And within 90 days to six months nine months tops you all disgruntled and you all discombobulated. Why? Because nine months into the relationship, your needs have not been met. And the reason why your needs are not being met is because becoming a union with him was not predicated on your needs. It was predicated on everything about him that you wanted. I said women use their needs as a measuring stick. It doesn't matter how tall, dark or handsome he is, how big his penis is, how much money he got or nothing. If you got a list of needs and if you take out a certain amount of time to acquire understanding, this man can supply those needs. When you discover that he cannot it doesn't matter what he looks like or what he got going on you vacate that situation.
Speaker 2:Have you ever considered what it means to be in a relationship Other than the very obvious? I mean, really considered what it means, what the expectations are, what roles each person is supposed to embody? My friend, david, is writing a book where he dives into just that. What exactly is a relationship as opposed to a companionship? Now, that's a term I never even heard or considered. Which one are you in, relationship or companionship? Which one are you searching for? Now, the author's views are entirely his own. Some I agree with and some I don't, but regardless of my personal opinion, this conversation is educational, thought-provoking and very much needed. Be sure to hit that follow button and share this episode with a friend. That's how we grow. We really appreciate it, as always. Thank you for joining us today. Welcome to Manhood Matters. Let's get to it. Welcome back to the pod. Yes, sir, yeah, yes sir, yeah. So in conversations with you in the past, you mentioned a book that you're either are in the process of writing or it's done.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm 68% in.
Speaker 2:Okay, cool, tell us about the book man. What's it called, and tell us about it.
Speaker 1:Well, the name of the book is called. Who Took my Manhood and Left Me All Alone With Her.
Speaker 2:It's a mouthful man.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's definitely a mouthful. I can't wait to hear this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, break down the title for me.
Speaker 1:man, Tell me what's going on and it's one type of situation where you know people always go straight in for the kill on the title, but it's about the systematic destruction of the black family, how the government manipulated our African-American sisters into getting the man, the black man, out of the house. One thing about me I have a very extensive background in holistic psychology, behavioral science, social science and mental illness. So, growing up in a spiritual, metaphysical, holistic, organic centered home and family lifestyle, I was always raised to not look at the symptom but the cause.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Meaning like if I ever met a man or a woman, a child, that acted a certain kind of way, I didn't write them off on the symptom, the reaction, you went back to find out what the reason is.
Speaker 1:I wanted to find out why this child wasn't born like this, why this child was acting like this, even when it comes down to relationships. I spent nine months in the Congo, three months with the pygmy tribe, and one of the things that blew me away being around this pygmy tribe is, you know, when you go out to these countries, especially like you smack dead in the middle of one of the most dangerous geographical jungles in the world all the bullshit fades away. Everything that is in our society is now gone. It's not in this society. I'm like, literally like.
Speaker 1:For instance, right now, as we speak, there's over 7,000 actively spoken languages on the planet. Now, the overwhelming majority of those 7,000 languages spoken don't have the words belief, love or faith. What was the word? Before it became a word, it was a thought and then it came to action. When I came to the realization that words were thoughts and they became materialized as actions, then I start learning and understanding that every real word solidifies itself. And how does that real word solidify itself? Through action. If I say to you sit. In order for you to execute the word sit, you have to take the action of sitting down. All real words are solidified by action. If I say to my woman or to a woman or to you that I care for you. In order for me to care for you, I got to provide, I got to. It has to be reinforced with action.
Speaker 2:That's what you're talking about when you said the word love itself doesn't have action behind it.
Speaker 1:Exactly Because it's a four-letter word, a cliche in a holiday, it actually materialized around the time of St Valentine's Day. You know, Cupid, the heart, everything. People don't do no research.
Speaker 3:So when did it get infused into the Bible then?
Speaker 1:The word love itself has no indigenous or ancient origin. So when you sit back and look at the concept of the Bible not take it away from anything but when you sit back and look at the whole concept of writing 40,000 years ago, putting stuff in the book form, that's another evolution. We're less than 500 years removed from the continent, so nothing has been lost. Even when you go to Africa, african elders call America an infant child still suckling at his mother's breast. We are already a derailed society. 248 years in, we already are in a free fall of demoralization. Facts don't even rule no more. And even looking at the relationships between the men and the women let's go back to slavery.
Speaker 1:There have been scenarios that have been playing out on this planet due to colonization, putting our people in positions that they was never, ever supposed to be put in. A black woman was never supposed to be put in the position to be shown and proven and reinforced the understanding that her man can't protect her. Well, we don't take into consideration. We're dealing with about 400 and some change years of resentment, right, and then, on top of that, we find ourselves making a transition into a society that, as that society, grows and evolves while at the same time simultaneously still reinforcing the notion in black women's minds that your man cannot protect you.
Speaker 3:At the same time, they're glorifying another man, that was the whole purpose of them raping the woman in front of you exactly so that your man cannot.
Speaker 1:Exactly. Right now, as we speak, we dealing with three decades. We're dealing with the collateral damage and fallout of over three decades of mass incarceration and single black women parented homes. That in itself is a pandemic. That's a societal disruption within a culture. That's almost genocide in a certain sense. Now, as things continue, it's not almost genocide, it is exactly exactly, and as things still continue to progress. Look at the fact like, for instance, it's 2025, america just so happens to be one of the few countries that does not possess a universal understanding of what a relationship or marriage is.
Speaker 2:All right, stop, hang on a second, I agree. So I want to start from what you just said and then just go from there for me, okay.
Speaker 1:People don't take into consideration that America just so happens to be one of the few countries in the world that does not possess a universal understanding of what a relationship or a marriage is and what do you mean by that?
Speaker 2:for instance, or describe it the way the rest of the world sees it, in the way you see it okay.
Speaker 1:Well, like, for instance this is the best way I can explain it. I'll use the slavery situation. Only a fraction of people were enslaved. You got a lot of people out here think all of the continent was hit by slavery. It wasn't now. Prior to slavery, 355,000 years of mental, physical, spiritual, economical growth and evolution on that continent. First, colleges and universities in Africa that's prior to slavery. Then our ancestors get illegally abducted, shackledled, enslaved and falsely brought to the shores of this country, america. Now, when they get here, the whole entire paradigm now has now changed, because these people are being stripped. They've been stripped of land, language, culture, tradition. They've been stripped. Now you have them over here in this foreign territory and you now start the whole process of reconditioning the mind. If we go to Korea, korean men and women know what to expect from one another. Chinese men and women know what to expect from one another, because these cultures around the world are hundreds of thousands of years old in their growth and evolution.
Speaker 2:Would you describe for us what the universal understanding of marriage is?
Speaker 1:Okay, us what? The universal understanding of marriage is okay. In a nutshell, no matter where I've ever gone in the world, the inhabitants of that land know what to expect from their men. They know what to expect from their women. Okay, so much so to the point that even here in america, what they call us the great melting pot, this, this country, is not integrated. No, it's integrated in the fact that in this geographical region of the world, we have a lot of different, diverse cultures living here. Right, but still the overwhelming majority of cultures.
Speaker 3:They don't mix, you know um, we went from a society that was communal, like you grew up, exactly, to everybody got to get their own, you know, and so that was the start of that fracturing that you talk about. I mean, I still look at the Asian culture, the Hispanic culture. One of the reasons, in my opinion, that they do thrive is that they are still communal. Right, they come over here and they bring the communal aspect and instead of just being in those little small house, they come over here, pool their money together and get a big house, and then it's comfortable for everybody.
Speaker 1:Same playbook divide and conquer. You turn around and you find a way to get the black woman to put the black man out of the house. I hate it when black men and women in fight try to compare their plights, because there ain't supposed to be any plights to compare. It's supposed to be the black plight. It's supposed to be the black plight. People don't take into consideration that, even without women and I try to explain this to black women you still cannot compare not downplaying anything that has happened to black women historically and still continues to happen to this day. You still can't compare it to what black men go through.
Speaker 1:It pissed me off to the highest of positivity when I went to the World Medical Conference in Moscow, russia, in 2018. Festivity when I went to the World Medical Conference in Moscow, russia, in 2018. Some of the greatest minds on the planet coming out, even though they was dropping facts. It just wrecked me to my core to hear that African-American women in America have had aborted more babies than the whole entire international abortion community. I sit back today, in 2025, and say one of the reasons why African-icans got the highest rate of divorce, separation and domestic violence is because the fact of this, when there is no universal understanding. You don't. Your average black woman don't know what to expect from a black man unless she goes towards something negative.
Speaker 2:Okay, question what is it that they should expect?
Speaker 3:certain principles that you think should be okay, or what, or what do you feel like it was so, so you didn't define our race.
Speaker 1:Okay, there has to be a universal understanding of certain things. What I mean by universal understanding? No one would ever dispute that water's wet right, that fire is hot, that we need to drink water for hydration, that we need to eat to live. These are all universal factors. When you have cultures that are hundreds of thousands of years old, they were able to give the room and space to grow and understand, grow and evolve into these universal understandings, right down to how all these different cultures deal and interact between the sexes, the genders. Now, here in America, your average black man, your average black woman, they're not even relationship or marriage orientated individuals. You may possess the desire to be in a relationship. You may possess the desire to be married. America is the most mentally, physically, spiritually, sexually and financially dysfunctional society on the planet by grand design, and african americans, unfortunately, are the greatest inheritors of america's dysfunction. And I'll tell you why america is so dysfunctional because american culture has very to little to no oversight, intervention nor accountability over a period of time that it becomes internalized and normalized.
Speaker 3:So part of what you're saying, I think and you can correct me if I'm wrong is that you can get married and there's no penalty for not staying married.
Speaker 1:No, even before that it don't even get that close. What has escaped us as individuals is, if I'm interacting with a woman to say that I'm ready to be in a relationship, to say I want to be married, I'm saying I have succumbed to a place in my life where I am ready to positively impact and motivate another human being on a mental, physical, spiritual, sexual and financial level. Those are the five principles in which men and women deal and interact. Now guess what Does everybody make? The football team.
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 1:Everybody make the basketball team? No. Does everybody get to graduate from MIT? No, everybody get to work for NASA.
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 1:But when you sit up here talking about what a relationship is, that's harder than any of those assignments. What exactly is a real relationship? A real relationship is when a man and woman of mutual attraction and of like minds comes together and formulates a committable bond, a union in which the man and the woman makes a mental, physical, spiritual, sexual and financial contribution to that union and growing it into a power couple that hopefully leads to marriage. When I sit back and look at into a power couple that hopefully leads to marriage, when I sit back and look at all these indigenous societies that I've studied and visited over the years. When those kids grow up, they're raised through rites of passage.
Speaker 1:The boys come to a place where they're no longer being boys and they're acknowledged as men in the eyes of their whole society, family and village. Same thing with the girls. And then, after they come, become adults, young adults, they go out into a society. They have a uniformed mental, physical and spiritual society that holds those children accountable to the teachings of the parent or parents. When here in America we raise our children to the very best of our ability, which I did, my kids was on the straight and narrow the whole time. They was under my roof. But guess what? I underestimated the power of the internet. I underestimated the power of society.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and its influence.
Speaker 1:That's a huge influence I'm saying it is because you got a man and a woman over here. They're coming together with the intent of wanting to be in a relationship. They try to predicate this relationship on sex and money too. Too many negative influences. All these influences pertain to relationships as things that people are trying to emulate through music, movies, reality shows. There's nothing of substance there that has laid a foundational and structural understanding of what a man's role is as a man in relation to himself, who he is to be for the woman and, if children come into place as the man, how he is to evolve into a father and the position he wants to play.
Speaker 2:So, having heard that you're right right Because I look at society, I look at certain influences and all these different things and even as adults, we are being coached, trained and subjugated to all these different things that we're seeing. So what principles are you bringing in your teachings to remediate that particular situation, since men don't exactly know what they're supposed to be bringing?
Speaker 1:We as a culture, we're left to have to fend for ourselves across the board. When you listen to us articulate, every other word out of our mouths is what we think, feel, believe or have faith in. Now, what do all those words have in common? They're all predicated on a foundation of uncertainty. Explain that, I think. Yeah, that's a good point I feel, I believe, I have faith in it's from your perspective. All four of them are predicated on. No, I'm not giving a perspective, that's a fact.
Speaker 2:Well, you don't know Right. No, no, no. What I'm saying is that they're coming from your perspective of truly not knowing Right, so you don't know for certain. So then, this is how you feel about it versus.
Speaker 3:No, I'm actually talking about in the word.
Speaker 1:I feel that I have faith in this. That's what their lead is. See, when I go outside the United States, life is not predicated on what you think, feel, believe or have faith in. Life out there is predicated on what you know, what you don't know, what you can do and what you can manifest, because at the end of the day, you can't do what you don't know. Say, is IJ home, and I say I believe he's down at the playground. That means I am uncertain to his whereabouts.
Speaker 1:The word believe is rumors, hearsay, conjecture, not facts. If you look at the word knowledge, the first word in knowledge is no, not n-o, but k-n-o-w, a literary marker, an indication that those who have acquired knowledge know. So when you sit back and look at people who articulate on a consistent and constant basis the whole lifespan and I think I feel I believe I have faith in when you sit down and have a conversation with them and you ask them what it is that they actually and factually know, can do and manifest, you get crickets. And one of the things that I notice is this what reinforces is one thing that reinforces uncertainty and that's fear. So when you sit back and look at our people over the past 248 years, and you see this lack of unity. You see this lack of mental, physical, spiritual, sexual and financial growth and evolution. How are we supposed to grow and evolve like everybody else when you occupy in a consistent and constant state of uncertainty and fear?
Speaker 1:But it's very easy to put instill fear in a person that doesn't know. If you know something, check it out, like check out this. You say he had a big dog. You walk in here. You know that dog don't bite, right, you don't fear it. I walk in behind you. I see the dog. I have no knowledge that that dog don't bark but don't don't bite it. I walk in behind you. I see the dog. I have no knowledge that that dog don't bark but don't bite. Now I got fear. You don't have it because you have the knowledge of knowing the dog don't bite.
Speaker 1:And it's the same thing out within our society. The more a person learns, one of the things that has empowered me, and as a, as a man of color, is my ability to learn, grow and evolve, and it's the same thing. What's going on with these relationships? I'm sitting up here asking couples that are trying to come together questions that nobody has ever even asked them before. I sit there and I interview the woman by herself, man by herself, both together, and I ask the woman let me ask you a question how were you raised? Have you actually and factually been raised, to be anybody's husband? Have you been raised?
Speaker 3:to be anybody's mother. So I got a theory on that Right. So this is my second marriage, right. Me and my wife have been together total 20 years. We celebrate our 18th year of marriage next month. So intentionally Right, I started to after my first marriage. Just going back through my history, my dad's been married five times. My mom's been married three. You said five times. My dad was married five times. My dad passed at 97.
Speaker 3:During my bachelor party at my first marriage, my brother was like dad, why don't you tell him you know what it's like to be successful or have a successful marriage? And my dad looked at my brother like he was crazy. He was like I can't tell him how to be successful. He's like I was married five times. I can't tell him how to be. I can't tell him how to keep her. I can tell him how to get rid of her.
Speaker 3:And everybody in the car just started laughing, right, and so you know I broke the ice. He was like why? Why, you say that? I said because you were married five times. He said well, why would that make me lucky? He was perplexed. I said because you found five women that you actually loved enough to marry. I can't even find five I like. And the look on his face, I mean I'm telling you and he laughed at it but I was dead serious. I mean, still to this day I can't tell you of five women that I will have loved or thought enough of to marry, besides the two that I married and the first one. I wouldn't call it quote unquote a mistake, but it just didn't work out. You know it wasn't like the most amicable. I mean, what I'm saying is not like most situations where it was a disharmonious breakup, right, it just circumstances just took us apart.
Speaker 1:And that's why I'm hoping that this book you know who Took my Manhood and Left Me All Alone With Her Tell us about the book. Well, like I said, the book basically gets some. It puts things in perspective and give people something to sit with. Okay, when you're in survival mode 24, 7, 365, it's just reactionary, reactionary, reactionary. Then, on top of it, you live in a villageless society.
Speaker 3:There's no more speaking strength to power. So I want to go back to my point in telling y'all that story. The point is my second marriage with my second wife. Her parents were married 30 years. My first wife, her parents were like mine, so we were both from homes where we never saw a successful marriage and I think and I don't even think I feel like the reason why me and my wife are successful is because she came from a household where her parents were married for a long time.
Speaker 1:The book to me is so important because it gives generations time to sit with it, all this whole work. Who took my manhood and left me all alone with her? That's exactly where we are. You got a lot of broken men now that are in relationships. He's now left alone with the woman the woman People don't take.
Speaker 3:So who's left alone? With the woman, the man?
Speaker 1:Like right now. Look at how many, as time progressed to our culture, this is what I've seen. I see sisters that got the degrees. The sister's pretty, she got a nice body, she's gainfully employed, she's got a house or apartment, a car, some material treatments. She's got a bank account, savings account, 401k. She had all that my whole entire life. I've seen good girls with bad boys. Yeah, she had all that my whole entire life. I've seen good girls with bad boys. Yeah, the girl is out there going to Spelman College, this, this, this, that and third but her boyfriend, he in them streets. He's a dope boy. It coupled up Right, but he don't. He, but his car is in her name Going through that mass incarceration, coming out of that mass incarceration.
Speaker 1:If you needed to find a black man, he was always entrenched underneath a black woman. And even now, in 2025, look how they didn't broke that up. I see brothers now coming home from jail. They don't have no woman to go slide up on the. Now the drugs is pharmaceutical. Now the cars you can't steal them hard to get your hands on the gun. Some people's families have passed away. You got men out here on these streets.
Speaker 3:They out here fending for themselves well, we don't even have the number of children that we used to have no so that kind of forced the family dynamic together because you had to have some help in raising your kids right. Also, you had the one parent household. One parent would work and one parent would be at home raising kids. Now, the way the economic system is, it forces both parents to work but now 43 percent of black women don't even want kids right, because they don't have time, they're working they want a career in a body right.
Speaker 3:It ain't even the music videos, no more. It's just the fact that I can go on instagram and this person is is uh, got you know a brazilian butt lift, or she's got breast, or everything is about looks, but look at how our women have become totally and virtually disconnect from the. The reason it's but it's. It goes back to even when yeah, but when I'm saying it's 40s and 50s where they were seeing these white women and they went from a natural hair to-. No, but I'm not even talking about that I'm talking about.
Speaker 1:how can, in only 248 years, how can any black woman mentally detached from the understanding of why black men are in the mental, physical, spiritual and financial situation they're in?
Speaker 2:Question. So one of the principles that you touched on in the book is taking the men and their power away. What's another principle and what's a positive outlook that you touched on in the book is taking the men and their power away. What's another principle and what's a positive outlook that you have on the book?
Speaker 1:The economic side of it. No one has gone above and beyond the call of duty to make sure that black men were properly educated. No one has gone above and beyond to make sure that there was a transition from a boy to a man and what it means to be a man and how you will be held accountable as a man. See, what makes a teacher a teacher is that a teacher can assess a student and be clear in that teacher's mind of what that student knows, what that student does not know, what that student needs to know in real time. You know I'm saying and how to prioritize what that student needs to know in real time. You know what I'm saying and how to prioritize what that student needs to know.
Speaker 1:I investigated 217 grassroots organizations when I came to Georgia in 2016, and I was disappointed when only seven of them was really doing the work. You have a lot of individuals out here cloud chasing. You have a lot of individuals out here putting themselves in positions. But see, the thing about it is I sit back and I look at the fundamentals. As soon as I encounter a man, a young man or a young woman, the three phases of life pop up in my head. The three phases of life is self-identity, self-empowerment and the longest running phase of a being's life, self-mastery. We have so many good kids out here, girls and boys, but they don't have no foundation, no structure, no agenda. See what? What I've learned? What breaks a person out of survival mode?
Speaker 3:survival mode goes bye-bye once they acquire an agenda when I started to have a purpose, right when I started teaching men and women about the five point principle lifestyle.
Speaker 1:I live a five point principle lifestyle. The five point principle lifestyle is daily, cognizant mental, physical, spiritual, sexual and financial growth and evolution. Because I have that agenda, that's my routine every day. I have patterns what my mental is. I got certain books that I read. I got certain books that I read, certain audible books that I read, state of meditation and proper prayer, me myself. One of the reasons why I'm single right now is because, again, everything is so twisted. A lot of women say they want to be in a relationship, but how it figuratively plays out it's really you're looking for companionship because a relationship is too much work. When I say, when I say to people that a real relationship is when a man and woman of mutual attraction and of like minds comes together and formulates a committable bond, a union in which the man and the woman makes a mental, physical, spiritual, sexual and financial contribution to that union and growing it into a power couple that leads to marriage, they sit there looking at me like my head just split open.
Speaker 2:That's a great description, thank you, that's really good, but that's part of the 50%.
Speaker 3:Why 50% of them need to divorce? Because they only might get to the physical. They hardly ever get to the mental.
Speaker 2:Well, not just that, but I think that what he's-.
Speaker 3:They got physical and financial.
Speaker 2:I think what he's hit on that, I think, is impactful. Is you want something right? Right is impactful. Is you want something?
Speaker 2:right right, cool, what is it exactly like? You know the name of it you heard about. What is it? Because if you can't describe it, then are you sure you want it now if I prescribe it to you, which is what you're doing? It's like well, look, you don't have your own description and maybe they do. Right, not everyone has the same description. You do, but some people might, and it could be a profound, a very powerful one, but most people don't because they never think about it so do me a favor.
Speaker 3:I want you to break down the difference between companionship and a relationship right, to give people a foundation on the difference between the two right now how I've seen companionship play out in the united states.
Speaker 1:Here you got a brother and sister, maybe they in their late 40s. She didn't work hard, sacrificed and invested wisely. Now they you know they changing gears. She's got her 401k, you know, he got his, and they're seeking exactly that companionship Someone to spend some quality time, get some quality attention, to get out here and travel. You know what I'm saying. Their money situation is set. They got their. You know saying their money situation is set, they got they. You know their retirements and all that kind of stuff. That's all set.
Speaker 1:The only thing that's missing is a companion. So a companion for what purpose? Not do this shit alone? Exactly a companion to spend time with, to travel. You know saying to you know, have someone to be with. Now, when you talk about a relationship that's still work, we're still. Now you might have a man or a woman who just ain't where they want to be. They still got student loans on the table. Now we got to come together and lay the foundation and structure that's going to help us to grow and evolve in our time together, as well as take these student loans down, improve our mental health, maintain our physical health, work out exercise. See, that goes back to that universal understanding. If everybody knew that a relationship was all about mental, physical, spiritual, sexual and financial growth and evolution. If you grew up with that understanding and a woman goes out and she meets a man, and when she meets the man, that's all he's talking about. Now she knows, I got the right man.
Speaker 3:So I got a theory on some of what you're saying. So for me, if I ever had to get married again for whatever reason I know I'm not looking for a relationship Right, Because you're right, it's too much work. The biggest thing that I think people get into when they're dating is they always think that they have to be in a relationship and you can be cool with companionship, and a lot of people now are developing that or starting to figure that out, and that's why I think a lot of people aren't getting married. And then when they go from, let's say, for example, they dated somebody for five years but everybody pressures them into marriage and then the marriage falls apart because they were fine as companions but they weren't set up to have a relationship.
Speaker 1:Right, but then again it's also going back to words and words being energetic. You saying that brings my uncle to mind. My uncle was with one young lady for three years. Everything was fine I mean literally fine. He's a cool dude. They got married. They couldn't stay married 24 months. He turned around and got with another young lady. So what changed? Check it out around and got with another young lady. So what changed? Check it out. He got with another young lady. They was together for five years. Only thing that was missing was a ring on the finger. It's just something about A commitment. That's what it's. No, but see, the thing about it is it's almost like he's allergic to metal. No, but like it happened. Three times he got with three different women and all three of those relationships ended upon marriage. But now he's in the fourth relationship. Ok, now him and his girl been together 30 some years because he didn't get married.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if a man and woman commit to one another, living under the same roof, one another, they paying bills, they procreating, that's marriage.
Speaker 2:Do you feel that, based on what you just said, that marriage itself happens to be an external contract, whereas if you do it without the marriage, it's an internal contract between me and you? So we could last 30 years and be perfectly fine. But the second someone else puts the government society puts a strength on it or puts rules upon it.
Speaker 1:It falls apart because you're not built to do that Right, because now, here it comes, he has his life set up as a profit, non-profit and private family estate trust. Her name is on the roster.
Speaker 2:any event, something happens so she's taking care of. She's taking care of, so it's not.
Speaker 1:It's not a cop out to say well you know like I don't want her to get exactly whatever it just puts things in natural order and perspective without the outside interferences. You got a lot of people out here. They have pressure and anxiety when it comes down to marriage because if this doesn't work out under the umbrella of this form of marriage, this woman can take me for everything I got. I at least could have.
Speaker 3:Let's see that the thing that people don't understand about marriage and I've said this before on the podcast Marriage is a partnership.
Speaker 3:And to a certain extent in any partnership is like a business relationship. If you go into business with somebody, the minute we disagree and we want to go our separate ways. It's similar to a marriage. Is we got to figure out whose assets you know? What part are you taking, what part am I taking before we dissolve? And if people looked at marriage the same way, they would be more selective on who they went into a partnership with.
Speaker 1:Well, that's the whole versus. But that's. You just hit the situation on the head. See, the thing about it is people just throwing shit up against the wall to wait to see what sticks because they are involved with their emotions and love there's no foundation structure or agenda connected to their wants, needs and desires. Even look at the power of words. It's a world of difference between the mentality of a woman who sees a man as a want versus a woman who sees a man as a need.
Speaker 1:Yes, Like for instance, I just told, one of my homegirls that's powerful.
Speaker 3:Say that one again In their needs A woman who sees a man as a want.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a world of difference between a woman who sees a man as a want than a need, correct? I'm saying like, for instance, one of my homegirls she's beautiful sister coming apart at the seams the other night because she don't understand why these relationships ain't working out. I said the reason why your relationships are not working out is because you pursue a man as a want. She said, well, yeah, he is a want. I said no, he's not. I said God doesn need each other.
Speaker 1:A man and a woman need to be on the same list with water, air and food. I said because with you, every time I talk to you, you're always pursuing some cat based on what it is about, the things about him that make you want him. And then you end up getting in a relationship with this dude and within 90 days to six months nine months tops, you all disgruntled, you all upset and you're all discombobulated. Why? Because nine months into the relationship, your needs have not been met. And the reason why your needs are not being met is because becoming a union with him was not predicated on your needs. It was predicated on everything about him that you wanted.
Speaker 1:I said if women use their needs as a measuring stick, it doesn't matter how tall, dark or is how big his penis is, how much money he got or nothing. If you got a list of needs and, after you take out a position, a certain amount of time to acquire understanding, this man can supply those needs. When you discover that he cannot, it doesn't matter what he looks like or what he got going on. You vacate that situation.
Speaker 2:David, do you think that, especially in today's norm climate, et cetera, with women being more self-sufficient, et cetera, you think that there is a part of them that doesn't allow them to say I need this or I need this person? You know what I mean, because what I'm saying is look, I could want him, but if I need him, it means I'm giving up a part of myself.
Speaker 3:And they're afraid.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, not just that, but they're afraid of becoming dependent on this person, or even vulnerable in that sense, because if that person stops, changes their mind, because they evolve in different ways, right, and they go their ways, or whatever it is then they feel that there is a part of them that is destroyed. Do you think that's why they are reluctant to give up that part of them, to say that they need a man rather than they want a man?
Speaker 1:Well, that's a part of it. But also you got to understand something. You have black women who automatically feel that they are superior to a black man, that they have more education than To be educated means you went to an institution or a college and you walk around with half a head of theory and you don't know if the theories that you have learned are even real until you apply them and witness their resolve.
Speaker 2:And most people won't.
Speaker 1:Exactly Now. When it comes down to knowledge, that means you have acquired an understanding, you have applied that understanding, you have witnesses, resolve, over and over enough to know that it works. We now live in a time where women see men with a certain level of disrespect and disdain, so I want to clarify that, because this is all.
Speaker 3:this has been my point and every time I bring it up to a black woman it's like a light bulb goes on in their head. I said I met white women, asian women, hispanic women. I never hear a Hispanic, white or Asian woman say I don't need a man, exactly. That is that. That is that African American African.
Speaker 1:American women are the first race of women on the planet to ever run that campaign so widespread that it's globally known Like. Right now here in the United States there's over 800 private colonies. I know about these colonies because I see these people come into these different hospitals and different clinics. Are they getting medical attention? I mean coming in there with three and four wives and they got a whole bushel of children. People have no understanding what's going on here.
Speaker 1:It's funny to me that even right here in Georgia there are 16 white men who went down to South Africa and came back with 16 South African girls. But you know what they did. They went out and they created an organization. They bought a piece of property and they built a community like this on that property. And those men, you know, late 40s, early 50s, got money, been working hard, sacrificing, wanted to procreate their legacy and they turned around and went to South Africa and got themselves some wives and came back over here. See, a lot of women don't understand. The man is the franchise. The man has the last name. He has the Y chromosome, he has X chromosome. The woman is supposed to come into into this union as being a helpmate, to lay the foundation and structure of this dynasty with offspring procreation.
Speaker 2:Is that the premise of what you're writing about and what you're teaching?
Speaker 1:well, it's one of them type of things is I'm trying to, as most delicately as possible, try to bring things back into perspective, into balance but can you see how the way that's phrased would not be potentially well received?
Speaker 1:I understand that. But see, the thing about it is what I also understand, though I don't jump through hoops anymore. Yeah, because back in the day, red Fox Dick Gregory was one of my mentors the people was unapologetic. They say what they want to say. Same thing with Louis Farrakhan. People say what they say. You know, no matter who, I can get anything from anybody. I take the meat and I spit out the bones. Right now we live in this society because people are not taken into the position, taken into the perspective how people are being cellularly victimized. You know I'm saying that's why you have all this hypersensitivity. You know, nobody can't, you can't have a conversation without somebody's feelings getting hurt. See this, we are in an agitated society, but it's very hard to navigate your daily life if you're not in the know so let me ask you a question when did you develop your theory for, I guess, pegging order for men and women?
Speaker 1:Okay, well, in Africa there's 36 African indigenous spiritual systems that make up the whole global spiritual pantheon, the whole body. In Nigeria they have something called Ifa. There's something called the 256 Odu, ifaah. We're going to call each one of those 256 odoo's an encyclopedia, okay, okay, each one of them 256 is a encyclopedia. Now, each one of the 256 odoo's are about 1500 telephone books thick. Each one of them, each one, is about 1500,500 telephone books.
Speaker 1:Ifa in its written form is 40,000 years old. So how do you get through that much information? You can't. And let me tell you how. God don't make no mistakes. The reason why you don't get through that much is because everyone born into Ifa receives a sign, receives an Odu. Just like you got a birthmark, you're born under a certain Odu. One of those 256 Odu's was pulled on your birth and then you are signed certain aspects of your own Odu to use that information to lay the foundation and structure of your life, mentally, physically and spiritually. And to be clear, these Odu's are books, they're writings. The first Odu is Ejiope. Ok, so Ejiope. They expounded on Ejiope. They said you can live a thousand lifetimes and still can't read all the Ejiope.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean not if it's 1,500 phone books.
Speaker 1:No yeah, but it's 40,000 years of writing. The crazy thing is you got 4 million human existing years on the planet. Right Before the 40,000 years, we lived in an oral society where individuals were so brilliant they used to work around with this information in their head. We live in a society that benefits off of the good, the bad, the right, the wrong, the ugly and the different. They got a way that they're going to profit from any situation or circumstance.
Speaker 1:When it comes down to these relationships, it's the same thing. These women are out here running recluse as well as the men are out here running recluse, operating at their lowest vibration. Because who's teaching them? Nothing from nothing leaves nothing. I see her, I want to be with her. The only thing he knows is OK, she likes sex and money. I like sex and money. Outside of sex and money, I'm going to try to inflict my will on her and she's gonna try to flick her will on me, and then it turns into this whole infighting type situation versus right now, here in, even right here in America. You ain't got to go outside the country. I got people telling me that the reason why I'm still single is because I'm waiting on a black woman. That's why you told me that recently.
Speaker 2:What is the reason you are still single?
Speaker 1:Well.
Speaker 2:I think that's a stupid question. By the way, I'm asking it knowing full well. It's a stupid question because I hate when I hear that, because I've heard women say this guy is this, this and that, still single.
Speaker 1:You know, knowing all this full well, I'm just going to ask you, if I may why are you single? It's very sad and disheartening that if I right now, in this moment, decided to date outside my race, I can get in a relationship like that. Problem is, I know I'm a good judge of character because from 2016 to present, anytime I'm moved to actually approach a woman in public, they always marry.
Speaker 2:So you approach the one that obviously but it doesn't happen.
Speaker 3:A lot value in.
Speaker 1:Basically she's a prize, right it doesn't happen a lot, but it has more than happened enough to substantiate that I am clear in my understanding of what a black woman is, of quality and substance, caliber, good character, family and career, because every time I approach one, oh thank you they all flattered.
Speaker 2:I'm married she wasn't wearing the ring, or you didn't look at her.
Speaker 1:A lot of times I wasn't looking.
Speaker 2:I just wasn't looking. Yeah, but would you date outside of your race?
Speaker 1:I'm tangling with that now. But now what's going on, which is really ironic that y'all brought this up. I got a little tour coming up soon, so I'm going to go down. One of my professors, one of my mentors this guy's like a father to me he told me straight up and down recently. He said look man. He said do like you wasn't meant to be by yourself. He said I'm supposed to be going to South Africa in July.
Speaker 2:You're going to get yourself 16 wives.
Speaker 3:No, no, no. So are you at that stage in your life where you cool with companionship or are you legitimately looking to be married?
Speaker 1:Well, no, I'm actually looking to be in a relationship. But see, the thing about it is you got to understand where you're at. If I'm going to stay here in America, it's going to be companionship. I meet more women here in America that are companionship oriented than relationship oriented, and abroad I meet more women who are relationship oriented than companionship oriented.
Speaker 2:I get the difference. We all agree I think all three of us especially when Leon a little earlier said no, like if you were to get to do it all over again he'd look for companionship. I would actually look for a relationship, because I get both, because in the relationship you also have companionship?
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:You do get both, and I feel like the companionship itself is very volatile, in the sense that they're there for a reason and I better not get sick that one's not gonna wipe your ass it's a companionship.
Speaker 2:So you know what I just went through yeah, yeah, yeah of course, that's what I'm saying like, so you have that relationship you're talking about in the future. But I'm saying like, for me, if I'm gonna, just like you know, lock it down with someone, it needs to be a relationship every single time. Oh, I don't need it. I'm cool with the casual encounters and just moving on with my world and not have the false sense of security with you when you're not really here. There's always this nagging thing where I feel like at the first sign of trouble you're gone.
Speaker 1:Let me give you an example. One of my best friends was in love with his children's mother. Remember when I told you, when you care more about somebody than they care about you, it equals resentment. Well, she resented him for no matter, you know, no matter how disrespectful she was, no matter what she did. She resented him for always seeing the better side of her and still wanting to pursue that right. Yeah, that's crazy. So she got to a point that she literally tried to destroy him.
Speaker 2:She's like what else do I have to do?
Speaker 1:Exactly, she literally tried to destroy him. So he got to a place with me. I was like bro, come on now, fat lady and son, bro, it's getting violent, it's getting really toxic. So he came out right. So I needed to change, came out of the relationship.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, he came out of the relationship. Yeah, he came out of the relationship.
Speaker 1:And he's a brilliant brother. You know what I'm saying. So this is what I did. I said I got to go travel. I want you to come with me Took that brother to Uganda and he met a Ugandan sister bro. And it was this beautiful sister bro. I even saw her. She was just out there, bro, the sun was shining and all the colors and pretty white teeth, and he just kept looking at her. She kept blushing and smiling, blushing and smiling, and it happened. Just that simple, yeah, that brother. They got together. He was going back and forth over there spending time with her. He put her through nursing school. They I just came out of nursing school, they turned around and started some kind of nursing home type situation, some kind of business with nursing.
Speaker 2:You know saying yeah they've been together now like 18 years that's beautiful, that is awesome and no hiccups. So I got to go back on one thing that I kind of want to challenge you a little bit, david, because there was a lot to pull from. I'm going to say 80% of it felt not preachy, not in a bad sense, but whether it's educational on a soapbox or whatever, it is educational on a soapbox or whatever it is where there was a whole lot of love for the black community being talked about. You want to grab everyone by the collar, it feels like, and wake everybody up and shake them up and go wake up right. You talked about the, the community. You talked about the village, you talked about our relationships and all these different things. But when I asked you a second ago, would you date outside your race, I expected a resounding hell.
Speaker 1:No, it seems like you're open to it. Explain that one. Well, it depends. Let me expound on it. Could I see myself when you say dating outside your race? Let's put it into perspective. I can go out there and date other melanated races.
Speaker 2:Okay. When I say outside your race, I don't mean outside of the nationality, when I think of black, I think of black. I think of black everywhere on the whole, okay, well, no right, no.
Speaker 1:Jamaican, haitian, ethiopian no you know I can't do yasamaris.
Speaker 1:That's why I haven't. Okay, that's why I'm 57 and single. Okay, because I can't. And the reason why I can't is too many things play back. I used to be involved in sporting programs where I see the overwhelming majority of these sporting prospects coming up and get completely burned to the ground and destroyed before they can even clear college dealing with them. You know what I'm saying. And then, on top of that, I come from a. I come from a very enriched culture family. The matriarchs of my family man. They poured into me. You know what I'm saying. They really dotted, I's crossed T's connected dots and really gave my life foundation, structure and purpose gave my life foundation, structure and purpose.
Speaker 3:My last question for you is so we're doing a podcast on relationships and you gave them five principles that they can follow in determining whether they're looking for a relationship versus companionship. What other suggestion or tool would you give generations that are coming behind and are just starting to date, that are just starting to look at companionship versus relationship?
Speaker 1:Well, I would tell any person to first self-reflect. If you don't possess the ability or the drive or the desire to possibly impact your significant other in a committed, a constant and committed effort to see them to be, help them to become a better person mentally, physically, spiritually, sexually and financially you're a companion, you're not a relationship person.
Speaker 2:I like that.
Speaker 1:Any individual who has succumbed to that deep, intimate, mental, physical, spiritual, sexual and financial side of themselves, to the point that they have put in the work and they see that their life is not perfect but their life is functional and it's progressive in those five areas and now you're ready to commit to someone. You are definitely a relationship-orientated individual.
Speaker 3:So what's the makeup of your children? You got five, you said.
Speaker 1:Yeah, three boys two girls.
Speaker 3:What do you tell your daughters?
Speaker 1:Well, my daughters, I'm hard on the girls. It's very easy to throw a defense to a society, the society's offense. I told him, any man who comes your way, that's, you know, saying just structured and sex, money and trying to control you or inflict his will or ideology way of thinking on you, that's not the man for you. Men and women deal and interact on five principles on a consistent and constant basis, consciously or subconsciously. Any individual who does not operate with a life's agenda that operates within the growth and progression of those five things are operating in a mental state of survival. You don't want to deal with people who are surviving, you want to deal with individuals who are living. And in order to live, one must grow and one must be progressive. And in the five areas in which we, as individuals deal and interact, is that mental, physical, spiritual, sexual and financial.
Speaker 1:And I told him straight up and down it doesn't start when you get into a relationship. You have to start dot nines, cross and T's on doing the work for yourself. Are you rational or irrational? Irrational, are you strong or weak? Ask yourself do you have common sense or do you not have common sense? See, one of the biggest issues I've seen in america is the whole concept of fake it till you make it and people not being able to be honest with themselves. Look, you know enough to think that you're right, but you just don't know enough to know that you're right, but you just don't know enough to know that you're wrong.
Speaker 1:You know what I'm saying we don't live in that realm, no more that lane of critical and constructive thinking, that lane of constructive criticism. It's not like that, no more. So many people, when you speak against anything, they think it's like a personal attack. They don't see it as a growing moment.
Speaker 2:When's the book coming out?
Speaker 1:Hopefully September.
Speaker 2:Okay, September this year, 2025.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I really need to. I don't maybe I don't know if you could help or not, but you know I need to really tap into, like the graphic artist community. I did a lot of research recently because I'm I'm at the place, I'm working on the cover of the book and I noticed by looking at a lot of the New York Times bestsellers, statement books got words, not pictures. So that whole who took my manhood and left me all along with her, that's like a statement.
Speaker 2:You know what? I'm saying it's a question but a hell of a statement.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, you know what I'm saying, but it would be on a book in written form. That would not be something that you put a graphic. So 27 different publishing companies came my way and they really didn't do anything but upset me for people to sit there very cool, calm and collectively and tell you they want 78% of your royalties For the book. I mean, yeah, I mean, the lowest amount of royalties somebody asked for was 40%.
Speaker 2:Why don't you self-publish?
Speaker 1:That's exactly where I'm at now.
Speaker 2:Okay, For people who want to reach out and work with you. How will they find you?
Speaker 1:Well, the best way to find me right now will be by way of email. My email address is the3zupan at protonme. That's protonme, that's the best way to get-N? Dot me. That's Proton. Okay, dot me. That's the best way to get in contact with me.
Speaker 2:Gotcha. Well, I have that. I'll make sure it's added to the show notes, yeah. I appreciate it. So anybody listening can just go ahead and check it out. So if someone maybe like a graphic designer or someone else wants to reach out or someone who just wants to challenge you, earlier today you volunteered to finish out the show and do the outro. Yeah, I did, and because you sound just a little bit to me like denzel, you can just go ahead and read that.
Speaker 1:I texted it to you already okay, everybody out there, please support us by following the show. Leave us a five-star review on apple podcast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll catch you next week when we share conversations surrounding real issues we deal with every day Manhood matters. We're out.
Speaker 2:I'll take your band on that, though you even drive. You're just ready A podcast for all but a point of view.
