Manhood Matters Podcast
Conversations around challenges dominating a man's journey through life. These topics are explored by real, everyday friends, with a lot of experience... And we have the occasional expert guest.
Manhood Matters Podcast
Dads Under the Microscope: What Our Sons Really Think
Vulnerability isn't something we often associate with fathers and sons, but in this raw, emotional episode, two dads and their 20-year-old sons break down those barriers completely. What happens when fathers ask their sons to grade their parenting performance, with nothing held back?
Jean-Jacques (JJ) and Stéphane (our host), who are cousins of the same age, both have sons born in April 2005 – Christian "Kiki" and Julien. Despite their parallel journeys, their paths diverged through divorce and different parenting arrangements. This conversation reveals the profound impact these circumstances had on their father-son relationships.
The young men don't hold back. They discuss what they wish had been different – from the desire for more emotional connection to wishing their fathers had pushed them harder in sports. Particularly moving is Julien's revelation about growing up primarily without his father after divorce, and how this created both appreciation for the time they did have and regret for what was missed. Kiki opens up about the communication difficulties that led him to feel isolated despite living with both parents.
What makes this conversation extraordinary isn't just the honesty, but the grace with which these young men view their fathers' imperfections. They acknowledge that their dads were navigating parenthood without a roadmap, often trying to break cycles from their own Haitian upbringing while figuring out the delicate balance between pushing their sons toward excellence and nurturing their emotional well-being.
The conversation culminates with both sons expressing how they envision their relationships evolving as they move deeper into adulthood – with hopes for friendship, mentorship, and continued growth together. Their insights offer a powerful template for how father-son relationships can mature and heal with honest communication.
Ready to examine your own parenting journey or understand your relationship with your father in a new light? This episode will inspire you to have the difficult, necessary conversations that lead to deeper connection and healing. Subscribe now and join us on this journey of authentic manhood.
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Host: StéphaneAlexandre
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Music by Liam Weisner
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I won't say he wasn't emotional, but he wasn't kind of receptive to having those emotional conversations.
Speaker 2:Because I didn't have those with my dad.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a learned skill. Now I understand, obviously, hopefully, as all people do, you grow and you start to understand these things. But as a kid it was like well, shit, I got all these people in the house, yet it feels like I can't speak to none of them, can't talk to my mom, them can't talk to my mom, can't talk to him. My outlet was just myself. So one thing I do want to reject is, I guess, just that mindset that he had just kind of neglecting. He was just kind of looking, thanks for tuning in.
Speaker 3:Guys, if you're a parent, I'm throwing down the gauntlet because this is a hell of a challenge. There is this old saying never ask a question unless you're ready for the answer, no matter how harsh. Now there is no playbook for parenting and we're all trying to figure it out. We're also just trying to figure out the least amount of ways to cause damage to another human being. If I had to compare it to a sport, honestly I don't play it, but it would be baseball, where the goal is to fail 70% of the time. So my cousin, jean-jacques, better known as John John, has a son named Christian, born in April of 2005. I have a son named Julian, also born in April 2005. My cousin and I are exactly the same age, so there are a lot of parallels.
Speaker 3:It was his idea to sit with our boys and have a real, honest conversation. We wanted to know, as fathers, what we did right, what we could have done better, while we did flat out wrong, in fact be graded on our performance as dads. For me it was a little heartbreaking to hear the time missed with my son that I can never get back. The honesty from these boys at times cut a little deep. But again, why ask if you don't really want to know? I can't begin to tell you how proud we are of these young men, for who they are and what they're becoming. Initially, john John and I thought we were being brave for opening this door and possibly be faced with our own inadequacies and failures, but it turns out it was the boys that had to show even more courage by being vulnerable, truthful and showing an enormous amount of grace and maturity.
Speaker 3:You will definitely enjoy this conversation. It's not for the weak. Welcome to Manhood Matters. Let's get to it. Thanks for doing this, guys. I appreciate you, of course. So we're sitting down with my cousin, john John. Dude, we have so much in common. We are the same age. Your mom and my dad are brother and sister. Our kids have the same names. Yeah, born on the same month, they're the same age. So it's crazy how many things that we have that are pretty much parallels.
Speaker 2:All right. Well, my real name is Jean-Jacques Gregoire Jr, but everybody calls me JJ. I'm a coach, I was a teacher what else? Exciting. Father of Three boys. Oldest one, his name is Noah, middle son, julien, and youngest is Christian, but he goes by Kiki, and that's what we have with us here today my youngest yep.
Speaker 3:That leads us to your introduction.
Speaker 1:I am Christian Gregoire. I'm 20 years old. I play soccer professionally. That is the occupation I have chosen.
Speaker 3:Love it, you ready for this conversation? I am. What's up, julian? That leads me my almost youngest, except I started over again. You were the youngest for the longest. How dare you? I know my bad bro.
Speaker 5:Took my title away. Yeah, but yeah, I am Julian Alexandre, son of the host. I am also 20. Currently I work full time with a small side business in car detailing.
Speaker 3:And you guys are like two weeks apart, 17 days. You're eighth, right? Yes, sir, I'm 25th. So 17 days apart. 17 days apart, same age. So two fathers, two sons. Yeah, man, jon, jon, yes, sir, I got a question for you. Brother, what is one thing that you are proud of as a dad?
Speaker 2:How he's grown up to be a man. He's more mature than I was. I was more of a happy-go-lucky kid very naive, into friends, talented, but life lucky kid very naive, into friends, talented.
Speaker 2:But life was just one big happy party for me. Yeah, I had a really good upbringing nice, comfortable, wasn't too hard, thought everybody was nice. I didn't really understand life, yeah. But as I got older I started to realize that that was very delusional on my side and he has not followed my path. Where do you think that comes from? I want to say that really comes from me being with his mother. Sometimes I might say some things like spirits, but I feel like she came into our life to make him who he is. So I give a lot of credit to his mom because she woke me up too.
Speaker 3:So, really, the thing that you're most proud of is who he is as a man. How do you respond to that? How do you receive that?
Speaker 1:Over the years I have honestly given them a lot of shit for I guess the backhand of trauma that you receive, that all kids receive. I've gotten to the point where I realize everybody has their own fair share. But I would say in response to that I have to give a lot of grace to both of them for just the people that they are, because obviously I didn't become who I am on my own. You know you're nurtured by your parents, if you're lucky enough to have parents, so from what they've given me, I wouldn't be who I am now without either of them.
Speaker 1:Me I wouldn't be who I am now without either of them. You know they're both kind of a yin and yang. Yeah, you know they. They both are opposites in a lots of ways, but that they both complement each other and that I feel like kind of was a perfect blend for me yeah, so he got to see the yin and yang version of us and now he's getting to see a different version of the yin and yang, the balance.
Speaker 3:I'm more unified yeah, yeah, because, uh, yeah, I agree, we don't yin and yang that much anymore. No, not at all.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like we can't really get upset. I'm softer to her reactions. When she gets to a point where she gets fired up the scorpio in her it cools quickly by my response. He gets to see it too, and we're different now.
Speaker 3:That's awesome, yeah. So for me, I can't take credit for it. I think he's the best human that I know in general. I don't know someone with a bigger heart. I don't know someone who's more selfless. I don't know someone who's just more willing to do for others and overall a good person. I cannot take any credit for it. I've grown to become that, or I'm still striving to become that, but that's not I don't know what it is.
Speaker 5:honestly, I don't know why it gives me that drive to want to help people. You know, as a kid my all-time goal was to become a doctor.
Speaker 4:Now I'm like that's too much school.
Speaker 5:I don't want to be a doctor, but I wanted to help people. It's always been like they don't want to be a therapist, they don't make that much money, but still I always try to help out my friends. I try to help out my parents, try to help out my siblings, anyone that I can. And even though at a young age my dad wasn't like that, him growing to be that person inspired me. Never said it outwardly to him, but all of his kids see who he's turning into, how he's growing as a person, because we all grow. It never stops. But yeah, him growing inspires me currently.
Speaker 2:And you still think he's growing now, of course, and what changes do you see?
Speaker 5:I think he's more calm.
Speaker 4:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 5:I think that's the main thing that we all see. I think your temper is still there, but I think it's longer than it was before. It takes a lot more to get me there. Right, I'd say you're more compassionate.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 5:I think that's what really inspires me.
Speaker 3:I have another question. We're going to start with you, Kiki, and then Julian. You can answer the question. Yes, sir, when do you think your dad's strength lies?
Speaker 1:I would like to use a more sophisticated word than just control but his ability to maintain his peace, his energy, is a very important quality that I've realized not a lot of people have. It allows him to make good decisions for himself, maintain his quality of person. It allows him to at least stay true to his character, and I think that's helped him throughout life. And you know, just allow good energy and good blessings to come his way. Well, there are a lot of people who have, I would say, done this man wrong, but I can't think of any people that have done damage too much damage.
Speaker 3:That's a very profound statement. It's awesome. Same question, Julian.
Speaker 5:Definitely your drive, no matter what, if my dad wants to do something, he's going to do it. He's going to get there, no matter what's in his way. You definitely see that you know in sales, if he has a goal, if he wants to do something, there is nothing stopping him from getting to that point. I think that's his biggest strength.
Speaker 1:Has that inspired? You personally? Do you feel like you can do that as well?
Speaker 5:I'm always learning from it, but I'm a huge procrastinator, so it looks like I'm not getting anything from that, but I see it.
Speaker 1:I feel like that's just kind of a common quality in our generation.
Speaker 2:So let me ask you a question with your procrastination so I don't use that word. What word do you use? I don't really have a word for it. Okay, because if I have something that needs to be done, I do wait for the last minute to get it done, and I guess that's procrastination, right, but I know that I'm going to get it done. It always gets done well.
Speaker 3:So you operate better under pressure. Yes, with a tight deadline, with a very tight deadline. Yeah, sometimes talent works against us. Yes, knowing that we are capable of doing that Is that how it is for you, 100%.
Speaker 3:I think I work very well under pressure in that is is that how it is for you 100 okay, I think I work very well under pressure, so I definitely wait till last minute for a lot of things. Okay, I want to ask a tougher question. Hit me what do you wish we could have done differently, better, as fathers?
Speaker 1:I have one. Go ahead, kiki. This is one that, like I've just been thinking about, or I, I've kind of accepted it because now it's it's become my own thing. But there was a certain point that I wish you, instead of taking your foot off the gas, pushed a little bit harder with football and just everybody's clear we're talking about international football here, meaning soccer yes, sorry, yeah sorry, I hate to call it that too.
Speaker 3:Trust me, but like our audience not gonna know what the hell you're talking about, you're right, you're right, it's important to clarify.
Speaker 1:But yeah, we had actually just talked about this recently. You were, you were telling me how hard your dad was on you with football and you realized at a very early age that you were starting to do that a little bit with me. I don't remember. You said like 7, 8, 9, around that age, yep, and you said you had stepped off, which I obviously as a kid definitely appreciated because I was definitely a lot softer as a kid, more emotional, and that was hard for me at the time.
Speaker 1:When I got a little bit older now, looking at it, from that 11 to 13, 14 years old age, I had wished we had spent a little bit more time and you had pushed a little bit harder. Pushed you harder, yeah, to train, because at that time period it was kind of like the similar thing. It was just the talent, you know, passing by. I wasn't really training too hard. If he wasn't going to train me, I wasn't going to train, I was just playing, just to play. It was something that I was good at and I realized at that point I wasn't really in love with the game to a point where I had thought about becoming a professional footballer, you know, making that my career. It was more so I thought that was just something that I enjoyed doing.
Speaker 2:It was just fun. I was good at it. It's always fun. It was like a game. It wasn't until 15, 16, I started to realize I kind of like this, I like this shit you know I actually love this game.
Speaker 1:There's a path here. Yeah, this matters to me, and that's when I started to push myself. That's when I went on my own self learning journey.
Speaker 5:Pushing yourself is already a great thing that that's not. You don't see that a lot in our generation. No, you want to push yourself to do that, but do you think you'd be in a different spot had he stepped on the gas right now?
Speaker 1:that is a good question, you know, I also, I ponder that as well. I don't know, I don't know if, if he, if he, had pushed harder, would I had, you know, fallen out of love with the game, thinking that it was more for him than it was for me, because there was a point where I, you know, that thought had crossed my mind, right, but I don't know. All you can really do is, you know, imagine the possibilities. And for me now, just wondering what I could have been, maybe I could be a little bit better. Now, right, you know, just thinking, maybe my right foot could be a little bit better or I'd be more confident in my shooting.
Speaker 1:My shooting would would just be perfect. These are just imaginary situations. You know hypotheticals you know what's crazy.
Speaker 3:Oh my God, if I could bottle what you just said and take it back to every eight-year-old, because you can't push it on the kids Some can. All of the greats have always been pushed to the point where it was almost unreasonable, almost like abuse. Tiger Woods' dad not abusive, but you're going to practice until your knuckles bleed. You don't have a choice, You're beaten into them. Yeah, you know, you're waking up at a certain time. Michael Jordan's dad like all these people who become the greatest, they have this story. Look at the Williams sisters. What was his name? It was a King Richard. He wasn't playing. This is what's happening. You're going to practice right now. You're doing this and this is what you're going to become. You will become the greatest right, or there's a shot at it.
Speaker 3:So Julian and I have a slightly different story. You've been with your dad your whole life. His mom and I divorced when he was about three years old, so then he'd spend the summer with me and that was in a whole different state. So he spent the summer with me. I'd see him all the time, but I wasn't around as much, and this is kind of fucked up. But I want to fix everything when I have him for two months. So he wasn't playing soccer and I asked him one time he's eight years old. I remember this exactly. He was eight years old and I'm going what do you want to be? He's a professional soccer player. I said, well, shit, you're going to play against. They've been practicing since they were three. You're eight, you haven't touched the ball, so let's go.
Speaker 3:So I have him in the garage and I'm pushing him and he's not, you know, hitting the ball against coming back to him and he's not trapping it. And I keep pushing and pushing and then he starts crying and I felt like absolute piece of shit. I felt bad. His sister came out because she heard me. I'm talking to him like a coach, the way I imagine any coach would be, yelling at their students. At least I thought so.
Speaker 3:But she comes out, she looks at me, she goes really Like you're not going to ease off, Right, and I was like I guess I am. Then I look at Julian and Julian's in tears. I'm like I'm so sorry, I was on 10, bring this shit down to five, but you don't give up. You know, in my mind I was like I don't want to live vicariously through you because I missed my shot, so all parents overall have it. How much do you push to where they don't become resentful? You know, I don't want you to feel like this is not for me, it's for you dad and stuff like that. And I don't know if you remember that incident. I don't.
Speaker 5:Thank God. But that would have been and that is my answer to your question pushing me harder to where there is no giving up, pretty much Because you tried to get me into golf and I was into golf for a little bit, I was taking lessons. I could totally see that, you can see me as a golfer.
Speaker 1:I could totally see that you should see his swing.
Speaker 5:I'm so jealous because he naturally has an amazing ability, but I didn't want to do it to where I was playing as a sport. I just wanted to do it for fun. But when I realized that it was, I'm taking it seriously.
Speaker 3:I was like him, like did you take a hundred swings today? Because every golfer you got to go out take a hundred swings every single day. I got him this weighted club, so you just go in the yard swing it a hundred times, and he'd be honest. He'd just like, okay, do it tomorrow, son, do it tomorrow. And then one day he calls me, he goes dad, I don't want to play golf. I was like all right.
Speaker 5:That was one of the most disappointing phone calls I've ever had with him. I never liked to know that I disappointed somebody.
Speaker 3:Even to this day. I don't know if that's an issue or if that's something that I need to work on, but I hate people being disappointed in me because I feel like I could have done better. I will tell you right now fuck that. No, that's a weakness. No, you want to do what's right by people. Forget being your dad. I will tell anyone this you do what's best for you a hundred percent of the time. Don't worry about people being disappointed. Now, if someone's giving you advice and they're pouring into you, you have a mentor, someone's trying to push you and get you somewhere. Yes, sure, try not to disappoint that person, but don't think about overall not disappointing people, because that will hurt you more than anything else.
Speaker 2:Yep, they will take advantage?
Speaker 5:Just to answer to that question, just the heart of push. There is no giving up, because I do think well. I mean, like Kiki said, you don't know where you're going to be had this been different. But I do think I would have been in a better spot had I been pushed for either soccer or golf.
Speaker 3:So if the choice is push your son and the risk is, yeah, but he might resent the game. Hate me, be mad at me, but he's going to be great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean because when the kid gets older and that talent is refined, it's up to them if they want to use it.
Speaker 4:Exactly. At least you help them build it and prepare them Build character.
Speaker 3:I mean exactly.
Speaker 1:At least you help them build it and prepare them build character.
Speaker 3:I mean pushing sons anything. Man, a pianist, a great pianist. They practice eight hours a day like these kids. Don't just become what they are because they just like mess around with it I got the blueprint now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, if I had another one, the next one would be great as parents, that's all we want.
Speaker 3:And someone said parenting is about finding the the least amount of way to fuck up another person. This person is going to be messed up, but you're trying to find do the least amount of damage to that person. And like you said earlier, Kiki, there's so much trauma. Everyone grows up with trauma.
Speaker 2:You know, we grew up with Haitian parents.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that was fun, yeah, you know how that is.
Speaker 2:So with Kiki, which was different, I got him when he was young. There was a time that me and his mom weren't together, okay. So I kind of had to be the dad and the mom. So I had this real sensitive side. Then I had the dad side, but the dad side was from what I knew from my dad, yeah, which was not too much talking, very cold, yeah, this way no other way.
Speaker 2:And I was battling with the sensitive side because he needed that nurturing. Yeah, right, and it wasn't too long. When it came to me working with him with football, the hardness was there. And I remember when I too hard on him, one time I was like I don't want to be like my dad with him, because I want him to continue, yeah, play the game. I remember it, I was in the car and I was like I gotta stop. So when we had conversations with his mom, she was like you know, you gotta keep working with him. And I'm like, well, I don't know if I want to do that, because that hardness and that softness already merged together. So if he didn't want to train, I wasn't going to train, I wasn't going to push it, because if I pushed it I knew where it was going to go. At least you thought it was going to go to where he was.
Speaker 2:It was going to. I remember one practice we had. It was bad in the garage.
Speaker 1:You know it was going to go somewhere.
Speaker 3:And he's old at that point.
Speaker 1:How old are you when that's happening? I don, yeah, so I just remember that. Are you talking about the one where I was hitting the ball a little hard?
Speaker 2:Oh my God, yeah, so we were passing the ball and he wasn't doing something right and he was getting upset, I would pass him the ball and he would do it. Then he kept sending the ball back to me with a little more pepper. So I said this little guy is trying to challenge me. So he played one. I said I didn't say anything to him. So he played it. Really, he played back to me. I hit him with a one-touch shot. Boom, the thing hit the wall behind him. He was so shocked. I was shocked. I did it. So I said, okay, that's enough, because I had to calm down, because that ball would have gone through him. Yeah, if it hit him, it was going to destroy him. So I was like, okay, I got to stop this. And then I was like, okay, no, I can't, I cannot do this. I got to. How old is he? Then?
Speaker 3:Like 10?, no younger. Yeah, oh wow, oh my God. Yeah, you're going to kill this kid.
Speaker 2:So there's a kid that I train now. That has what I wish I could have done with Kiki that I'm doing with this kid now. He's with me all the time. He trains all the time. Yeah, and if I had to train Kiki like the way I'm training this kid, he would be further than he is now. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And that's the thing, right. I'm afraid to lose my son. Is it worth it that I keep pushing on this Because maybe he's going to be an accountant, maybe he's going to be a doctor?
Speaker 5:Has it ever crossed your mind before? I don't know if you could do math, but you just I'm pretty bad at it. Fuck up my taxes.
Speaker 3:But I mean, dude, I don't know, because I've always told you it's like there really is nothing you can't accomplish. Especially, anyone who takes themselves serious today will dominate this generation. But yeah, it did cross my mind in terms of whether or not I would lose you. I don't want to lose you to golf again. Keep in mind, I'm away from you, right, right, I have you for two months. There was a time where I drove six hours, whatever it was, to come get you, and I got real close and you were like, hey, I don't want to go. You called me to tell you I don't want to go. I just drove six hours to come get my son, and he's six years old, on the phone telling me, dad, is it okay if I don't come with you? My response was like, all right, bye, cause I was hurt. Now, that was not your doing, just to be clear.
Speaker 5:I obviously don't remember that.
Speaker 3:Trust me it wasn't your doing, so I'll just leave it at that. My point is if all I have with you is one and a half, two weeks at christmas, the last thing I want to do is force something on you, right? Because then you really don't want to come. It's like someone I get there. I'm just gonna make me work hard. All I want to play video games and chill and sit and eat my cereal, and if you have it in mind that when you show up I'm having you do drills at 6 am you're not looking forward to that?
Speaker 4:Right so.
Speaker 3:I think, like our situations, we have so many parallels, but you and I, jon, jon, this is where there's a huge difference, because I didn't have Julian with me, you had Kiki with you and I had to always balance that and navigate that, because I'm always afraid of that phone call coming hey Dad, I don't want to spend the summer with you, I'd be messed up. I'm like damn. So I got to be like no, when you come here, you're not going to do anything but eat cereal.
Speaker 1:It's going to be great.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you're going to watch Looney Tunes I got to give the flowers to Monique again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because at a very young age she was like boys need to be with their fathers. Wow, yeah, man, she got a big bouquet of flowers.
Speaker 3:Oh, man, I want to stop the show and go and give her some flowers right now. Because it's true, bro, it's true, it's not just hand your son over to some dude who's a bum, who's a loser. A there has to be the desire from the dad. The dad has to be like I want my son and I'd love to have him. Secondly, she has to understand that a woman cannot raise a man Now. They'll do their very best, but when you have someone like Monique, who would figure this out early and have that level of maturity to say this is what's best for him I mean, do you know mothers and their sons? But do you love him for you or do you love him for him? Because if you love him for him, you do what's best for him- you know I give credit to my mom.
Speaker 5:She did do the best that she can. She still does do the best that she can. But I do also wish that when I was younger there was a chance for me to go live with my dad and my mom bottom line just said, no, you're not going. But I do wish that she understood that the dad needs to raise his son. I think I would have grown as a person a lot had I had that opportunity it was about to happen.
Speaker 3:but then I was like, well, let's sign these papers, almost like she would lose her rights, and that's what spooked her. And she was just like nah, this ain't happening. And you know she deaded the whole thing. The only thing that should have mattered is you're coming with me. Hindsight is 2020, bro. Question for you guys. Again, this is mostly about you two. Tell me about a very specific moment that you believe altered.
Speaker 5:I'm going to tell you why I'm drawing a blank. Going back to the previous question, I didn't see him a lot so I didn't have a lot of moments to where it could have really altered. There were, I'm sure, times where I should have had like a core memory, but just the two months out of the year is hard to pinpoint.
Speaker 1:Well, you already know that I can't really remember much from before I was like eight years old.
Speaker 2:I was waiting for Julian to finish, because there's something that blocks him from remembering Really.
Speaker 1:Yes, Anything from prior, from before eight years old, so I'm going to explain it to you like this there's bits and pieces that I can remember from before, that it kind of seems like a slideshow in my head, certain pictures that I can remember from a certain memory, but to me it feels like my life started at Concord, which is how old I was, about seven years old. I remember the Georgia Express era, just that. I was there, but I can't remember anything about it.
Speaker 2:Which is what I think that might be when your mom came.
Speaker 1:There's a picture we have upstairs where you're holding me and I'm holding the toy gun. I don't remember anything about that except, like I said, a picture in my head that it's like a hallway. I mean the only thing that I can really say at around 11 years old he had an opportunity to take me again like as a player, but he didn't. It was the first time ever, actually, that I was not with him, right that was the first time, yeah yeah, first time he wasn't my coach.
Speaker 1:So at 11 years old I got sent to this program DA. Right, that was the first time Playing. Yeah, yeah, first time he wasn't my coach. So at 11 years old I got sent to this program DA, which at the time was the big hotshot league for the academy kids. You know that was the best thing to be in. He was in between jobs and he was switching to a new club, so he didn't have my age group. But then he got my age group and instantly, yo get me out of here. I'm ready, let me come play with you. Your team looks fire, let me come play with them. And he was like nah, man, just finish out the year, just finish out the year.
Speaker 1:Why was that why?
Speaker 3:did you want him to stay with the other coach instead of coming to you?
Speaker 2:Well, the reason why I didn't pull him out was because DA was the league Development Academy League, was the league development academy league. He was younger than everybody playing up, so for me I was like, okay, he's gonna be playing with good competition, right, he's supposed to get better. But it didn't happen. It did not happen because he was playing with bigger kids no well, no not necessarily bigger kids. They were supposed to be the the top kids of an age group above him okay so it's just like Atlanta United.
Speaker 2:So the best players go to these development academy clubs, right.
Speaker 1:So they were all just like top quality players and a year older than me, okay.
Speaker 2:I was like, okay, he's going to benefit out of that. But I also had an 05 team. That was really good. But I was like I don't want to pull him down to that. I don't know if he did you tell me directly that this was what you wanted to do. I said I want to leave.
Speaker 1:I said get me out. We had a conversation about it. I was like yo like cause I was really cool with a lot of the players on the team at the time. You know Cole and Nico.
Speaker 3:You were cool with his players, so you were like get me out of here, I want to play with you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was like man, I want to train with you, like I want to play with your players.
Speaker 2:This is the perfect ideal situation and that's funny because I don't remember this conversation and you know the reason why I think I might have just blocked him out like because I don't want to hit him you're not going to do it, but it's to fact, because if he did play for that team, the team would have been ridiculous. It would have changed the game.
Speaker 1:The team was phenomenal man.
Speaker 3:I know that I've gotten this advice and I've given it. Talk to your kids, listen to them, especially if they're articulating exactly what they want. Was there a moment like that for you, where you were just like specific about something that you wanted? Not really, no, I was kind of afraid to speak your mind too, 100%. This was terrifying to me for no reason bro, Growing up I was.
Speaker 5:I have no idea why I was scared of my dad, but my mom was always a disciplinarian. I don't get whippings as a kid, but I was scared From your mom, From my mom.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I didn't touch her.
Speaker 5:I was your protector too. Yeah, I was your protector too. It was like frequent growing up. My last one was when I was 13. I mean, it was the day before my birthday.
Speaker 5:Again, none to do with me, so go ahead Explain Getting disciplined by my mom, gave me a fear that my dad would probably do the same thing if I did something wrong. So I was just scared to speak, because if I spoke out against my mom she would just think, oh, he's talking back. And then it would just lead more like fueling wanting to get worse?
Speaker 1:Did you have a fear that he was going to do it worse?
Speaker 5:I just had a fear that he would do it, period. I didn't want to get hit by both my parents. I'm already getting hit by one. Why don't I want a bell from the other one? But that was just my kid brain thinking oh, if I do something bad or if I speak out when I think I'm not supposed to, he's going to hit me too. And that was never the case. He always wanted to talk and wanted to hear me out, but I just never understood that as a kid.
Speaker 3:I remember this one incident, bro. We're playing at a gym where you were coaching all these kids. We're playing futsal and I'm standing next to you. I'm standing next to Jon Jon and I went hey, julian, he was running full speed, stopped on the dime, dropped to the ground, almost like waiting for the next command. And then John John looked at me and said what are you doing to him? And I was like nothing. What do you mean? I've done nothing. I was like hey, man, son, just come here. What's wrong with you? I don't know what that was and it kind of coached me to be even softer.
Speaker 5:I can't have him be afraid of me because I was afraid of my dad. It was my one of the first time, probably the only time I've heard you yell towards me.
Speaker 3:Calling you. Yes, how are you across the gym? I needed to get your attention. I've always been close.
Speaker 5:How else could I have?
Speaker 4:called you.
Speaker 2:I say the same thing to the kids. I said you're way over there. I said there's no way I can say hey, no, I have to yell yeah, I have to project my voice.
Speaker 3:Hey, julian, you're over there. You're like literally like 40 yards away from me inside the gym where 30 other kids are running and making noise because I was used to my mom.
Speaker 5:If my mom yelled my name I was in trouble. So when I heard my dad say Julian, I'm like oh shit wow.
Speaker 2:I'm done for. So you put all your fears from your mom onto your dad, that's exactly how I was as a kid.
Speaker 1:That's exactly the reason, so do you think the fact that you grew up with pretty much predominantly all women had an impact on that? There was only women in the house your sisters, both your sisters.
Speaker 3:You didn't have brothers, you didn't have your dad around and your sister's seven years older than you were and she's more like a mom. That is true.
Speaker 1:He's going to go like a mom, that is true. He's gonna go home and start relaxing. It's my time now I was just wondering like do you think that's had at least some impact?
Speaker 5:I think so. Where was the male role model?
Speaker 1:yeah, there's no one that lived eight hours away yeah, or when you would come hang out with us, like right and I would see things and I was like damn, yeah, that's what it's like, I guess.
Speaker 3:Kiki, do you want to have a family one day? Children, yes, julian, yes, okay. So what will you take from your dad's myself, john, john and say, hey, I want to emulate this as a father.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would just say I want to be for sure as close with my kids as he was with me. Our relationship. It's hard to consider it sometimes like a father-son relationship, because growing up we definitely just to me kind of just felt like homies yeah.
Speaker 2:But we were real close and the pictures. He doesn't remember, but they're in the pictures.
Speaker 1:We were always together yeah, yeah, like, yeah, I think that's. That's one thing, because I know I want two boys, I want two sons, and that's just because of a personal thing for me feeling like an only child, because my two brothers are basically damn near 10 years older than me, yeah and, like I said, I have no recollection really of when they were around. Yeah, I just kind of remember them being dickheads to me.
Speaker 3:That was it that's how it works, by the way. You just wish for two boys and you get them, just just so you know wow, okay, great, I'm sorry he's gonna have a daughter, that's fine no, I want three.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's come third, though, julia, you got one he's like ain't shit, you did no, no, you was a six to eight hours away I ain't got none I ain't got none, but he tried so you're gonna say I'm gonna try, I'm gonna try it's okay son, it's all right no, because you, you, you put in a lot of effort into all three of us, especially into me.
Speaker 5:You didn't stop trying. I don't want to stop trying. I don't know if that's a good answer, but we're not looking for a good answer, we're looking for your answer. It almost piggybacks off or completely piggybacks off of Kiki's answer to be close to my kid and to just keep making an effort, I guess, to maintain that relationship with them.
Speaker 1:Love that. Yeah, I think that's a good answer because, to be honest, in your situation you didn't have to try as hard as you did. You really didn't. I hear that a lot. I hear that a lot.
Speaker 5:That's what I'm grateful for, because you hear about it all the time that the dad was just never there but, he was always there. Even if he wasn't physically there, he was always there.
Speaker 3:I'm definitely grateful for that swells my heart a little bit to know that you recognize it, and I appreciate it 100. I have another question for you guys, which is the opposite of what I just asked. As fathers, what will you reject from what you've learned from your dads?
Speaker 5:I actually do not have an answer for this question.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he's like yeah that's good.
Speaker 1:Your turn, kiki, but I do.
Speaker 1:I know he does, but I do. I would say the only thing for me, the one critique I would have is it sounds like you kind of explained it, that hard side and soft side at one point kind of merged. But for me as a kid, like the dynamic with you and my mom was as we know, my mom was very hard on me, you know, very expressive, very emotional. So a lot of the times I couldn't really go talk to her about what was upsetting me or bothering me. I had to shelter that away from her and with him. I won't say he wasn't emotional, but he wasn't kind of receptive to having those emotional conversations.
Speaker 2:Because I didn't have those with my dad.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a learned skill. Eventually we learn to break from that. But I don't want to cut you off, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:No no, no, now I understand. Obviously, hopefully, as all people do, you grow and you start to understand these things, but as a kid it was like a little shit. I got all these people in the house. Yeah, it feels like I can't speak to none of them. Can't talk to my mom, can't talk to him.
Speaker 1:I don't even remember if my brothers were in the picture at this time, but definitely wouldn't have felt like I was going to be able to talk to them. So my outlet was just myself. So one thing I do want to reject is, I guess, just that mindset that he had of just kind of neglecting it was just kind of looking past it, because for me he would have been the one outlet, the person that I could talk to. And I feel like as a father, there will be those moments where you have to engage in that conversation with your son and kind of teach him the way. Luckily enough for me, I feel like I kind of learned after a certain point of how to handle these things, but with his guidance, or just a father's guidance, I feel like it'll definitely help a son throughout their path in life.
Speaker 4:Okay.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I may not have an answer for this question, but to the previous question of what I would do with my kid, the same your receptiveness. I could sit down and talk to my mom, but she was way more emotional and she would snap way quicker. So say one wrong thing and then the mood just shifts.
Speaker 5:Just like that, but with my dad. He always heard us out. You always listened to what we had to say, had a response and we actually had a conversation. I feel like I was an adult I'm five years old talking to him, so definitely want to have that with my future kid.
Speaker 3:Hopefully this conversation is a little eye-opening for you both. We're all being vulnerable. We're opening up about our shortcomings, etc. Are you hearing some of the difficulties to actually parent another human being and guide them through this universe For sure? Is it making you in the least bit apprehensive? Or is it making you feel like no, I'm excited, I can't wait to take on the challenge.
Speaker 1:I would say I'm a bit nervous to be a father, but I wouldn't say I fear it. I wouldn't say I look forward to it either, because I don't really want it to happen too soon.
Speaker 2:No, it's not happening anytime soon? I would hope not.
Speaker 3:My whole thing is son please.
Speaker 5:Right before you tap it. Thank you.
Speaker 3:Whatever, man, just do not let this happen. I'm telling you, I watch people who are further along in life and have accomplished things, even people who are married. They go a long time, they focus on their career, they accomplish certain things and they get to the point where they're financially super stable stable, because having a kid, being a parent, as you're hearing is already difficult enough. Imagine doing it like I did. I'm fighting financially, I'm struggling the entire time and I'm raising children. It should never do it that way.
Speaker 2:We weren't taught that anyway, Correct. So there's a way to do it. Did you have a mentor growing up?
Speaker 3:Jon, jon, I did not. Yeah, I talk about this all the time. I had people around me who are older than me, who looked up to me. So, instead of me having to pull from them, they're pulling from me, and I'm watching these guys who are older than me make horrible mistakes and those were my examples and I'm being honest to them. I'm still looking to them. And all these guys, two or three baby mamas yep, they got kids. You know, I'm just like, yeah, that's just the way it is. When they are in relationships, they are not monogamous. If a husband was had an affair, whatever, it's expected that when the wife finds out, she forgives him. She just moves on. If you go back to the earlier in the 60s, even 70s and 80s it's just what it was would you agree?
Speaker 3:no, no no, I'm saying yeah, totally, totally back back then. Right, and I think now there's more of a universal, worldly conscious effort for men to normalize being monogamous and not brag about the fact that they have two, three, four different women. That's sad, but even as I came up like in my generation, it was a badge of honor.
Speaker 5:Still is that way, um you'll see it a lot, even if, like, they're not in a relationship just saying I got hoes. That's like the biggest thing. We have multiple women lined up, you have a roster, some people would say um I'm starting five, sometimes starting five, that's a good
Speaker 1:one that's the slang right now. People would refer to women as their ball I'm glad you clarified.
Speaker 3:I would not know what someone's talking about exactly. Might Might be an unfair question, but I'll ask it anyway. How do you think your relationship with your dad ranks when you compare it to your dad's relationship with your other siblings?
Speaker 1:Okay, well, that's an easy one for me. We're definitely closer. I mean, we just spent more time together than he did with the other ones. It was just an unfortunate situation to the point where he wasn't able to be with them for as long as he was with me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what about you, julian? What do you think that ranks?
Speaker 5:I think, it shifted throughout the years. Now I think it's even you know. When you ask your mom or dad, you're like who's your favorite? And they're like I love you all equally. That's what I always hear when I know damn well as a favorite. I think there is the exact same amount of effort and attention that goes into all of us evenly.
Speaker 3:What about you, john john? What do you think like is if you had to put in your two cents in this, unless you have something to say right now?
Speaker 2:well, I do.
Speaker 2:I have a lot to say about by all means my brother about the first two, but I thought we weren't going to bring them in. That's why I didn't, you know, talk too much about them. The situation was completely different. Yeah, the mom, that was a tough time in my life, you know. And, uh, she poisoned those boys against me and for the longest time they were with her, I was pretty much 98 of the time. So she, they believed her, sure, and she just made me to be out the villain and it was hard for me to reprogram them.
Speaker 2:He's not my first, but he feels like my first. He actually had a relationship, yeah, like the other two, and it's still to this point. It's like they're grown men now. How do we become what we should have been long time ago?
Speaker 3:I think there's a point when that happens, and the reason I say that is because when I wanted that with my dad, no one poisoned me against my dad. I just saw what I saw. But there was always something in me as a grown man, I'm 30, 40 years old, longing for a relationship with my father, one that I wish I had, because I'm watching other grown men who are 30, 40, 50 years old having an amazing relationship with that. That's the best friend. You know.
Speaker 3:They're talking about their dad like that's my boy, you serious, I'm at my dad's house, like hanging out. Oh, he's at my house, he's. He's cutting my grass, like there's these connections, which is lovely. They're going to home people together because you know he just bought a house and dad over here fixing stuff. Like the connection was there. If he needs a shoulder to cry on, he calls his dad. Overall, as men, we all have our level of brokenness and you can't just put a bandaid on these things. Because it was too late for me, right? Because when my father passed we had not spoken in years.
Speaker 2:Oh no, I'm always open to them, but I just going to always see it as being difficult for them, right? Because of the relationship that I have with Kiki, because he's here, he's with me all the time, he's on the pathway that they wanted to be on.
Speaker 3:So it's a good segue to what Julian was just saying, because if you had asked me before, a long time ago, if I had a favorite child, I would have said yes, maybe not to my children. It changed over time. I have matured and also realized one thing I love my kids equally, but I love them all differently. I look for him to come to me and say hey, man, I'm dating this girl, this is issues I'm having. I look to see his kids and pour into them what I should have poured into him, all of these different things. But then I look at my girls and my relationship with each one is totally different, but every one of them there is a different relationship, meaning that there's a way that I love you and there's a way I'm going to love them, and those are not the same.
Speaker 2:So, like Kiki and I have gone through stages as far as who we are to each other, and I think right now is a really good because I'm communicating more, which I didn't before, because that used to be the thing. My dad doesn't talk.
Speaker 3:And.
Speaker 2:I used to always be like guys. What does that mean?
Speaker 3:What do you want to know? What do you?
Speaker 4:mean I don't talk.
Speaker 2:Did you ask me a question, did I not answer, and so it didn't, it didn't. I didn't understand what they were saying, because mom would say the same thing. Then my mom would be like y'all, you don't, don't talk what does that mean? Like I'm. I'm a quiet person.
Speaker 3:I'm always observing, yeah, and I'm taking things in right, yeah, but now I speak my mind, I talk, I even start a conversation yeah I feel like they don't want me to talk now because you have too much to say yeah, yeah, it's been bottled for years, bro, yeah, so here's what they don't realize. You've known him for 20 years. He's not that way with you guys. He's that way period. I'd come to you with some issues, but I tried not to because I was like he doesn't bring me his shit, like it's not fair to him that I start to, because I've had a lot more problems.
Speaker 2:I should say more problems, but when it was kind of settled down for you, I was going through it I'm a very good listener, so if you bring it to me I'll listen, I'll give some input, some feedback, but I'm not gonna come and be like hey there was something about you that always came across as stoicism.
Speaker 3:Maybe that's why I wouldn't even come to you, because I'd bring something to you and give me. He'd give me a super logical, simple answer. I'm like, well, it's logical, that's not. That's not what I need to hear, bro, that's not what you want to do. Yeah, so fuck it, I'm not going to bring shit up.
Speaker 1:I think, though, because of the way he was, it kind of helped me to automatically fix things on my own. You know, because, like I said, I couldn't go to him with certain problems and basically ask for his help or ask him to fix it for me. Just him being him, being the person that he is, it just obviously forced me to kind of sit down and take everything in and, you know, just, I guess, solve it all myself. And now it's kind of become a bad habit, because I don't really ask anybody for anything. I kind of just I'm going to go figure this out on my own, yeah.
Speaker 2:And now I'm just going to go learn. I'll be trying to call him and be like hey, you know, I'm willing to offer some advice here, now, and this guy is like, he's like, turned into me?
Speaker 1:yeah, and I'm good and then I'll tell him three months later that you know, the world burned down and everything was going. But I'm good now.
Speaker 3:I already fixed it, I already got it do you think it's something that you can kind of work on, because you see what it turns into, and you end up wasting a couple of decades before you where you realize, nah, maybe that's not the way I need to be. Yeah, allow people to be there for you, especially someone who loves you more than anybody else in the world loves you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know, there are definitely certain times where I can let them in. I just choose not to. I just choose to kind of do my lone wolf path. I guess it's kind of like an achievement thing. It's like kind of grinding out a video game and just beating the entire story mode by yourself and being like, yeah, I did that right that was me those two are probably my greatest mentors.
Speaker 1:Mom and dad. Yeah, just just by by watching them, because, like I said, you know, I didn't really talk to him I kind of grew up in his observer. So I kind of just watched them, learned and kind of soaked in and I guess I kind of created a blend of them, their own yin and yang it's amazing how much like him you are that you don't realize.
Speaker 3:So, speaking of that, because I was a lot like my father, I am a lot like my father and I try to denounce it as much as possible. So let me ask you both a question what do you see in yourself that you clearly see from your father? My temper, okay yeah, you got temper 100.
Speaker 5:Oh, I'm just like I've seen you mad, I'm just like junjun'm just like I don't like to talk. I like to say to myself so there was a point. It wasn't too long ago, dad tried calling me twice or three times. I didn't answer, I just didn't want to talk. And at some point he texted me. He was like are you okay? Like what are you? Did I do something? And I was like no, he didn't do anything, I just don't want to talk. And we went to go get something to eat. And then he just said I'm here to listen, just talk. And I think we sat there for like a good hour. Yeah, because I was at work, it was on a lunch break. For an hour I talked.
Speaker 1:This dude does have a temper. How many controllers have you been through now? Three, yeah, wow. So I started to put your business out there.
Speaker 5:But I I have a little temper that I get from my dad Because he used to tell me stories about how you had a short temper.
Speaker 3:I think you still do. No, it's controlled. It's controlled now Totally. People cut me off in traffic. I'm just like, eh, whatever.
Speaker 2:That's his release. You're blowing up, breaking the controllers 100%. But the thing about it is he's probably like me, where he takes a lot in. There's going to be something that is going to set it off.
Speaker 5:It can be something so small like a video game, yeah, and it will blow up.
Speaker 2:I don't know if I told you. Well, I'm sure I told him, but his mom knows that I'm afraid of the angry person inside me. He's just a very dangerous person. So I prefer to be fearful on the outside, because I know what's on the inside and it's come up a couple of times, yeah, in my life, and I had no control of it, damn, and I was really afraid of it.
Speaker 1:I'm not myself yeah, we've talked about that before, yeah mine was just pure rage, yeah like the hulk.
Speaker 4:Yeah, dumb hulk not smart smart.
Speaker 3:Green one, not the green one. What's the fondest memory that you guys have?
Speaker 5:I have plenty. I'm trying to narrow it down to a couple. I forgot what part of Memphis it was when I used to visit you in the one-story house, arlington, arlington, yeah, it would be like the last day of each summer that I would spend with him. We would always get ice cream. Listen to my favorite Haitian song at the time.
Speaker 3:Superstar, that's funny. I was like what's your favorite Haitian song? Okay, superstar, I got you.
Speaker 5:It was it was the same every summer, I don't know, for some reason. That's always like one of my favorite memories I had with him, just having that car ride to the ice cream shop coming back and I'd be like, let's listen to superstar. He'd put it on and we'd just sing it on the way back to the house. I really love that memory cool kiki you got one.
Speaker 1:I kind of want to put it more in broad terms.
Speaker 1:It's not really a specific memory per se it's kind of just like the idea back in the day, like the futsal days. I would say that's probably like my fondest memories, where and we were just in the gym and he would host futsal like it wasn't on tuesdays back at the, the warehouse, the little warehouse, yeah, yeah, I would say probably around that time because that was when, you know, like we would just go in there and we would just play, there was training. At that younger age I dreaded that part, but yeah, at the end of it, when it was time to play, that was always my happy time, that was my joyful space and that was always something that we shared together because he was running the sessions and I was always a part of it yeah but to me at that time I felt like the star of the show, because I was just in there, I was doing my thing, like as a kid, I felt like I was just cooking, everybody just having fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, big old smile on my face, just having a good time, nice, and that was just, you know, just a very joyful memory that he was always a part of something that we always shared and it lasted for a pretty good time fantastic.
Speaker 3:Last question how do you see your relationship with your dad going forward, how do you see it developing and how would you like it to be? I see us growing more as best friends.
Speaker 5:We're hanging out more. We're going to the gym together, we're doing stuff now together.
Speaker 5:It's hanging out a lot more, especially now, now that you're closer. It's a 30-minute drive to your house and, honestly, just keep it that way, and that's something that I would work on as well just reaching out more, not just father and son, but like best friends. You'll be the first person I call if I'm thinking about something, if I'm going to do something in my life in the future, if I have kids, you'll be there for the kids as well you know, I love that, thank you.
Speaker 3:What about you, kiki?
Speaker 1:well, for us it's going to be a little bit different now because what we're used to is being together. You know we've pretty much spent all of my life together. I mean actually within the last six years, as you all know, like I've been in and out the house just going to Portugal, brazil, doing whatever the hell it is I'm doing for soccer yeah so we've already kind of had that separation, but now it's going to be a little bit different.
Speaker 1:He has a new business opportunity. He's taking his business elsewhere and now I'm a little bit older, so my career itself is also taking a turn. So I'll be even farther. You know, with my business you never really know where you're going to end up or for how long. So for us it's going to be, I guess, a new challenge, just a little bit harsher than what we've already been experiencing the last few years. So I guess for me it's going to be a little more difficult because, like we said, I'm not really that good at talking. I'm like him, but now I'm a little bit worse than him. Phone talking I'm like him, but now I'm a little bit worse than him. Phone calls really hard for me because I just, for whatever reason, don't like being on the phone. It's nothing personal.
Speaker 1:I'll just look at a phone call and be like no.
Speaker 5:I'm the same way, dude.
Speaker 3:I've given up. I literally have given up. I'll just text and be like I'm not going to be mad, because I've learned from my dad and both my mom If I go a few days without calling them, I dread calling because I know it's been three, four days. And when I call oh, now you know you have a father, now you know you have a mother. I'm like, oh my God, that's why I wasn't so. One week will turn into two months. Now it's a real problem.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. I think for me that's just going to be something that I have to work on, especially with the time difference and how far it's going to be.
Speaker 1:It's going to be important for me to work on that so we can actually keep in touch. But one thing that is going to be important for me in our relationship is I'm still going to be looking for his, his guidance, in our sport, because he's always been my teacher, from day one. So it's definitely easier for me to trust his guidance and his word in my profession and what I do than to trust somebody else's. I'm always going to be looking for his opinion.
Speaker 3:That's beautiful man. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it sounds to me like it's more than just the sport. He's a pro, he's been coaching for a long time, but it sounds like you're looking for guidance overall in life. Well, correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, for sure, because what football has become, it's definitely a big piece of my life. It's part of who I am and he has nurtured that both who I am and the part of the game in me. So JonJon.
Speaker 3:Any final words, brother?
Speaker 2:Yeah in me. So, jonjon, any final words, brother, yeah, I would say, for moving forward with our boys. I think this is a good time for them, a different time in our life. I think it's important that they do stay in touch because you and I, older, we're realizing time. Time is very important. Time doesn't stop. I don't know how much time we're going to have.
Speaker 4:Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'm trying to spend as much time as I can, give as much information as I can, trying to set everything up as quickly as I can. Yeah, you know, yeah, so that for me it's just that's the most important thing just to understand time. If you understand time, then that might help you with maybe being in wanting to be in touch with us. It doesn't have to be everybody just, but with us. It's not that I'm asking you to stay on the phone with me because you know, I don't. I'm not just going to sit there and talk, right, right, there's a reason why I'm calling. And then some, a lot of times his mom is like, did you get in touch with him? And I was like no, or like she'll say I sent him a text, did he text you? I said, yeah, he texted me. Why he text you? He text me. And I'm like I don't know, just give him some space, man, when he's ready to talk, he'll talk to you, you know. So there's like the balance that I have with mom.
Speaker 1:There's one thing I wanted to say is you know the unstoppable force and mov movable object? Yeah, that's me and monique, that was an interesting dynamic. Watching growing up to see that that was something that like, that's a challenge in itself that I had to process growing up because I had to do it by myself. There was no sibling that was there watching that experience with me and obviously they are themselves. I can't tell them how they being crazy or how they're acting.
Speaker 2:You know, I just had to watch it, so he gets to see all that and then you know, he knows. Hopefully that's not how it works, but I have a long staying power, like I can stay in the situation for a very long time, good or bad don't matter.
Speaker 3:And now you guys have an amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a really good, really good relationship yeah. Like when she leaves. I don't tell her this, though, but when she like leaves, I'm like man, I don't want her to go, but she'd be ready to go. But she complains the whole time that she's like I want to come back home, but he gets to see this.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah. They are not the traditional parenthood and relationship you see on TV.
Speaker 3:That's not real yeah.
Speaker 1:Everything you see on TV, or just all the other parents I would see in real life. I'd be like what these two are special for sure.
Speaker 3:None of it is real, bro. None of it is real. I think that's been part of my weakness too. Growing up is I believed TV too much. I was raised by those three channels I had growing up.
Speaker 5:So I believed all that bullshit.
Speaker 3:It was true to me. I was like, yeah, this is it. All right, guys. So we've reached the point in the conversation. Unless you guys have anything else to add, I'm going to hand you, whichever one of you loses, the coin toss. Unless someone wants to volunteer and do it, I'm leaving it up to fate, all right, so we're going to flip a coin. You don't want to do it because you're just being told to do it.
Speaker 5:No no.
Speaker 1:Is this people pleasing?
Speaker 5:we were talking about I was kind of looking forward to this moment. I'm not going to lie.
Speaker 1:He does do a killer.
Speaker 3:SpongeBob. Excuse me, Sounds like he's about to be SpongeBob bro, I don't when.
Speaker 1:What are you doing? No, I'm just kidding. He was a big SpongeBob boy when we were younger, so that's still my show man. I'm just.
Speaker 2:SpongeBob like that.
Speaker 5:I can try my best to do a Stitch impression, you know, like Lilo and Stitch. All right, go for it. Man. Jesus Christ, now it's pressure, fuck. Okay, quiet, is that nice?
Speaker 4:Please support us by following the show, leave us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts and share with your family, because Ohana means family. Thank you so much for listening and we will catch you what's that word? Next week when we share conversations surrounding real issues we deal with every day Manhood Matters. We're out.
Speaker 2:That was pretty good. Wait, wait I was like okay.
Speaker 1:That was pretty good.
Speaker 2:I didn't expect it to come out like that. Really, I don't even know what those things are. That's probably what those things are, thank you.
