Get Over It: The Truth About Healing, Mindset, and Betrayal

 In this powerful episode of Mental Health Bytes, Dr. Tash and Rah (MrTraumaTalks) sit down with the incredible Dr. Jennifer Paweleck‑Bellingrodt — “Dr. Jen” — a licensed clinical psychologist, former Army psychologist, author, speaker, and unapologetic truth‑teller.

With over 20 years of experience, Dr. Jen has helped thousands of people break through trauma, betrayal, indecision, marriage struggles, and the self‑limiting beliefs that keep us stuck. She brings her signature no‑nonsense approach to this conversation, blending psychology, mindset, humor, and raw honesty.

Together, we dive into:
The trauma people hide behind “I’m fine”
Why mindset and attitude determine everything
How betrayal pain transforms into personal power
The truth about marriage, communication, and emotional survival
Why so many people stay stuck in indecision
The seven self‑limiting beliefs that block success
Her journey from Army psychologist to bestselling author
How to “get over yourself” and finally move forward
Dr. Jen is the author of:
Fix Your Freaking Marriage 
You’re Not Crazy: The Perimenopause Survival Guide 
Get Over It: The No‑Nonsense Guide to Transforming Betrayal Pain into Lasting Power 


You are not alone.

#MentalHealthBytes
#MrTraumaTalks
#DrTashReddy
#DrJen
#JenniferBellingrodt
#TraumaHealing
#MindsetMatters
#FixYourFreakingMarriage
#YouAreNotCrazy
#GetOverIt
#MentalHealthPodcast
#TraumaRecovery
#HealingJourney
#PsychologistTalks
#BetrayalTrauma

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Good morning everyone. Welcome to Mental Health Fights. And whoa, we have an amazing show lined up for you guys today. You know, it's Wednesday. It's the middle of the week. Most of us, by the time it's Wednesday, you're burnt out. By the time it's Monday, a lot of people hate the word Mondays. They hate getting up on mornings on a Monday. But if you look at it on the bright side, as I say every single time, every day is a new day. Don't matter how burnt out you get, you have to keep doing it. And you have to keep doing it for you. It's mental health bytes, and we're about to have an amazing conversation here today with two amazing therapists, doctors, psychologists. They and listen, they bring it. And when I tell you to bring it, they bring it real for you. Raw. The way it happens, it unfolds every single day. But before we bring them up, I want to do this like I always do. Because I don't want to interrupt them today. So I want to tell all of you for coming from last week, from yesterday to today. Give yourself a pat on the back. Yes. And you tell yourself, hey you, thank you. Thank you for bringing me from yesterday. Because yesterday was tough. You know, when you reflect, and this is a part of healing, reflecting, when you reflect on those moments where you thought you couldn't go on anymore, and you come back to the reality of today, you would realize that it was all temporary. So if you could have overcome that, your first step is telling yourself, thank you. I love you, I love you for bringing me from yesterday today. This is Ra, Mr. Trauma Talks, and I'm here with these two amazing guests. And I want to bring on my uh beautiful and amazing talented co-host who we want to share some love with. Send her some love and some prayer and healing because she just came out to the hospital. And look how beautiful and bright she's looking. Everyone, welcome, Dr. Tash Reddy. Hi, Dr. Tash. How are you?

SPEAKER_00 2:22

Hi, everyone. Thank you for joining us today. I know I missed last week. I had a health scare, but I'm here today to be with you. And uh, we have an amazing guest, Dr. Jen. So Ra and I get to be, I think, guests today and uh share our experiences and allow Dr. Jen to um educate us about it. So we're talking about relationships, marriage, uh, getting over situations that were meant to break up, uh break us in relationships. And uh we're very excited because Ra and I have many, many experiences with relationships of all sorts. So um I'm very excited to hear what she has to say, and very excited for what's going to happen next for our show to bring up before we bring up Dr.

SPEAKER_01 3:13

Jen, and and and you know it's amazing with all these praises because she's an author of three books, and she listen the first video she had on Instagram caught me, and she never have ceased like making me like go beyond my mind and my thinking. But with you, you you went on. But please tell us how are you feeling? Are you okay?

SPEAKER_00 3:39

Ra, I um it caught me by surprise, I have to say. You know, I had a quad heart by parts last year in June, and then I had a minor one heart attack in uh on Sunday, uh, which caught me by surprise. But one of the um problems was that the one of the arteries they they put into my heart uh collapsed. So they had to put in a stent and two balloons, and uh yeah, it was it was a learning experience for me as well. So um uh it, you know, sometimes we take so many things for granted. And I uh in that moment in hospital last week just realized what's important to me and what I need to focus on and not focus on, what I need to give attention to and not give attention to. And um I have to tell you, thank you for your love. You every single day, you gave me so much love, and it just meant the world to me. So I thank you so much from the bottom of my heart because you made a very lonely experience, incredibly um filled with love and hope. So, and you gave me something to look forward to, so you didn't give up on me, you came back for me. So I um thank you so much from the bottom of my heart. But I'm resting, I'm well, I'm doing this from my bed today. My legs are elevated and uh ready to go.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

Well, I think uh doing it from your bed is a very nice place because uh I wouldn't like to tell you. Actually, you have great reception, we could see you better, you have great lighting, you have everything. So I think you should do it from your bed every week. I know you said about giving up.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

Yeah, I'm gonna have to for um the next two weeks, but it is very difficult for me to give up on people.

SPEAKER_01 5:32

Like, I I give people a lot of chances starting this January. I realized I gave someone a chance from two years ago who um actually really screwed me up, but they owed me money. And um, and uh Freddie and I give them a chance to come back and and do some stuff. And this is mental health we speak about when it is you make promises, especially things are recording now. It's on Zoom, it's on you have you have breakdowns of messages and emails and stuff, and you're coming on there, and then you're not you're not performing or saying what you will do, or you're not producing it, it is mentally challenging. So, and and up to now, I would not tell that person off or just leave that exactly where it is, but now my eyes are open into a different level. That means to say that okay, probably there was a uh some sort of fault at that time two years ago, and you couldn't help, or there was reasons beyond, but now I realize it's not it, it's off my chest that I feel really good, that it's not my fault, or I didn't do something wrong. And this is some things that happen to people a lot of times in life, they blame themselves for a lot of things that other people cause, as I say, the unnecessary stress we cause in other people's lives at times. Human beings destroy other human beings and they don't understand what they do, and this is why I'm so happy that we have Dr. Jen. And I will give you the screen. I would love for you to read her bio and introduce her for everyone.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

Um, okay, so now we have a very important guest with us today, and I think I shared her bio on my Facebook page. And if you un uh joining us on my Facebook and on YouTube, I want to say hello and thank you for uh being on the stream with us. Um, we love having you, and we hope that you um you participate and uh take notice because today is a show that will really um focus on many of the challenges many of us have with uh mental health, trauma, and relationships. So um we have today we it's called uh get over it, the truth about healing, mindset, and betrayal. In this powerful episode today, uh we sit with the incredible Dr. Jennifer Pawlek-Bellingrotz. She's Polish and she's a licensed clinical psychologist, former army psychologist, author, speaker, and unapologetic truth teller. I have to tell you, when I read that, it uh reminded me a lot of me. Um, with over 20 years of experience, Dr. Jen has helped thousands of people break through trauma, betrayal, indecision, uh, marriage struggles, and the self-limiting beliefs that keep us stuck. Okay, so she brings um her signature um no-nonsense approach to this conversation, blending psychology, mindset, humor, and raw honesty. Today we together we will dive into the trauma people hide behind I am fine, um, why mindset and attitude determine everything, um, how betrayal pain transforms into personal power, the truth about marriage, communication, and emotional survival, why so many people stay stuck in indecision, the seventh self-limiting beliefs that block out success, and her journey from army psychologist to best-selling author. How to get over yourself and finally move forward. Dr. Jen is the author of Fix Your Freaking Marriage, you are not crazy, the Perimenopause Survival Guide. Get over it, the no nonsense guide to transforming betrayal pain into lasting power, with two more books on the way. This episode is real, raw, and filled with the kind of truth that wakes us up. Um, if you've ever struggled with trauma, relationships, self-doubt, the weight of your own mind, this conversation is for you. You are not alone. Your healing matters and your mindset can change absolutely everything. Welcome, Dr. Jen. I'm so looking forward to this.

SPEAKER_02 10:13

Hi, thank you so much for having me. Unapologetic truth telling. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

I love that. Um, thank you so much for being here. I'm so I'm looking forward to. Um, I know you and I do similar kind of work, but I want to just uh get therapy from a therapist today. So we can always learn from each other. So I'm looking forward to that. And um, if you could just uh please introduce yourself to introduce yourself to the audience and and let us get to know you.

SPEAKER_02 10:48

Well, you gave such a lovely introduction. Thank you for that. Um, as you said, I've been a psychologist for over 20 years, first in the army, um, some of the best years of my life, and then in the civilian sector right after that. Um, I love writing. Um, I my specialties are couples and personality disorders, specifically borderline personality disorder. People with BPD are my favorite. Um, a lot of people ask me why, because those cases can be very challenging. And my response to that is just that I have seen people go from such a place of devastation and even not wanting to live anymore to understanding that there's hope and that as one of my patients put it, it doesn't have to be this way. Like it still gives me chills to say that. It doesn't have to be this way. We're on a planet of nearly eight, or over actually now, over eight billion people. There is hope and help available. There's a reason that you're here. Um, and so watching people with BPD transform from people who are living in pain and trauma and reactivity to people who have worked through their trauma and can respond versus react. It's one of the most rewarding things that I've ever done in my life. So that's what keeps me coming back to working with people with BPD. Um, so those are my specialties. As you said, um, I've written three books: one on marriage, one on perimenopause, one on betrayal, two more coming. Um, love writing. Um, I have a podcast, I have all of the things, all of these ways that I'm trying to reach more people. Um, thank you, COVID. Um, honestly, that brought me home to working virtually, and also helped me realize that I just really need to find ways to reach more people than the seven people I can see in my office every day. So that's my story.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

Wow. And you know one of the things you said that stands out? Thank you, COVID. Everything happens for a reason, every change you have to take it and make something great of it. I have so many questions I put together after reading your bio and listening to you, right? So, one of the things I want to come into, as we know you have an army background, and and I know you can connect with this one really well. You have spent over 20 years helping people to get out of their own way, right? What's the first thing you want people to understand about mindset, especially coming out of the army background? There's lots of vets. We had a couple um vets as well. Tamara Lee Patrick, she's a speaker on here. She she does, she does it, she has this book about rising out of the phoenix, a phoenix rising out of the fire, and she tells her story about her truck being bombed and flying over. So I know you're like the the perfect person for that question for people.

SPEAKER_02 13:52

So, mindset, honestly, mindset is everything. Um, it it dictates our attitude, it dictates our motivation, it drives everything. And I think the most important thing that I would tell people, potential patients, just anyone in general, is um it's very difficult to change your personal narrative, the way you talk to yourself, the way you think, the what your mindset is, if you don't even understand how it was written in the first place. So that's why whenever someone comes into my office, we do a deep dive. We begin at the beginning, I call it. So we do a deep dive into history. I want to understand everything that's happened to you up until the point you sit in front of me, because whether we like it or not, everything that happens to us influences who we are. Um, so making sure that you have a good understanding of how you got to be the way you are is crucial to changing the mindset that that has created for you. And mindset, an important distinction is mindset is a conscious concept. So those are the things, the thoughts that I think. Whereas paradigm, someone's paradigm is a subconscious um thing, it's a subconscious pursuit or endeavor. So your paradigm is what drives your mindset, your subconscious beliefs drive your conscious thoughts. So helping people see that distinction, beginning at the beginning to really unpack it, those are the things that I think are crucial to um changing mindset, which again, I believe, drives everything.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

Dr. Jen, where do you draw the line with uh mindset work and like emotional avoidance? Um, many people um, you know, we know trauma distorts your reality, right? Uh it distorts what's happened. And then mindset is how you you work towards healing from it and uh um changing your perspective of it. Um and it's very hard to get patients to understand the difference between the two. Um, so how do you draw the line with the emotional avoidance they bring into it in terms of mindset?

SPEAKER_02 16:16

So I think if if you're going to dig in and you want to change your mindset that's gonna drive your behavior, you can't be emotionally avoidant. You you just can't. You have to dig in and get there and figure it out. Now, an important distinction that I make for people is um the way it proceeds in the brain is thoughts, feelings, behavior. So the thoughts drive the feelings, which then drive our subsequent choices, actions, behaviors. So what we do is we want to intervene at a thought level. We're not gonna ignore your feelings, but we're gonna figure out where they're coming from. And again, to me, that's where the family of origin work comes in because how did I get to this place where this is how I think, this is how I process information. How did this happen? The information processing errors that we have, we don't just buy those off the shelf at the grocery store, right? Nobody goes around looking for these negative uh mindset ideas or negative thoughts. There's a reason we think that way. So you dig in and you figure that out, and then you reprocess and then compartmentalize in a healthy way so that those things don't drive your feelings. I feel like once people understand from whence they come, they're more likely to engage in the feelings because the feelings don't feel weird, strange, crazy, or abnormal. Like, well, geez, no wonder I feel this way. No wonder I react that way when my spouse does X, Y, and Z, or my child does this, or my friend says this. Like, this is what I'm coming from. And then it it empowers them. That understanding I find empowers them to then do something different.

SPEAKER_00 18:07

So I I love um delving into childhood trauma, right? Um, and because I've myself experienced a lot of trauma in my life as a child, and it's amazing to me that we make many promises to ourselves in our childhood that defines who we are later on in our lives, right? And we don't under realize that the choices we made was based on the little choice uh decisions and promises we made to ourselves when we were little. So, like if you come from a bro home with divorced parents, I hate saying broken home, home with the divorced parents, you make a promise that you will never get divorced. So you stay in a marriage for as long as you can and and push you know the the the red flags or warning signs aside. And I find that many people do that. Um, whatever promise they made or trauma they had in their childhood, they bring it back into their adulthood and uh it defines really their identity. So um how do how do you um at what point does trauma stop being uh the wound and start uh changing uh to becoming the identity of, you know, it's no longer your wound, but uh you work through it and process it to become your identity?

SPEAKER_02 19:35

Yeah, great question. So in psychology, there's this tendency called repetition compulsion. And what that means is that we are often, not always, nothing is an absolute, but we are often compelled psychologically, subconsciously, usually to repeat patterns from the past. Another phrase that I use is recapitulation and mastery, which means we're recreating a situation from the past because we have this intent to master it, this goal to master it and have a different outcome than the one that we had that we don't like. So a lot of times once people understand in in in layman's terms, is the phenomenon that we marry a parent. So, like if you're in your example, your parents were divorced, you vowed never to be divorced. That's great. That's a wonderful idea in theory, right? The problem is if you have unresolved issues, trauma, junk, stuff, whatever, you may be subconsciously compelled to marry someone who helps you work those things out. Again, at least you think. So if you marry a parent, then you're gonna end up in that same situation. The the best thing to do is to get some therapy before you get married, or and or once you find someone, you do premarital counseling to figure those things out. Um, I mean, I I think everyone should be in therapy. I'm a little biased, right? But I think that you know, we weren't designed to go it alone on this planet. So we can all benefit from kind of talking through things, hashing things out, understanding things, getting help with trauma. So this phenomenon of repetition compulsion, I think, is what lands people in those types of situations. And it's unrealistic, and again, when we're kids, we don't know this, but it's unrealistic to make these promises to ourselves because what we don't know is that there's that missing piece where we have to figure out how to do differently. We we can make a promise. I'm gonna do differently, I'm not gonna get divorced. But if you don't figure out that missing piece, you're destined to repeat the patterns in a lot of cases, and so then you land yourself in a situation that you feel like, oh, divorce is absolutely off the table, it can't happen, and then you're Stuck and unhappy and depressed and anxious and you know plethora of other things. But I think it's it's if you come from brokenness in however you define that, whether it's a family of divorce or trauma or however you define that for yourself. We all define our brokenness in different ways. You have to first figure that out before you go on to a relationship. I think that's the that's the main piece is again, we're not buying these ideas and things off the shelf at the grocery store. So you've got to figure out where this comes from and then decide how and why to do differently.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

Okay, which, you know, we uh in South Africa, I'm in South Africa, right? And we have one of the highest, I think the highest uh level of GBV. And uh just in the past week alone, we've had many women being killed and um and uh as a result of GBV. And uh I work with many people, patients of mine who are going through GBV, and I know they're watching now, and I want you to tell them what is the the one belief they have uh or people have that you've seen is the most destroying belief, and why?

SPEAKER_02 23:21

So, what is this particular type of violence? I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with that acronym.

SPEAKER_00 23:25

Oh, a gender-based violence. Sorry, sorry, gender-based violence violence.

SPEAKER_02 23:29

No, no, thank you. Um, so the most destructive belief that they have coming out of that, or that keeps them staying in that, or what what uh specifically staying in that, staying in that.

SPEAKER_00 23:42

Um you know, there's uh they tell me they stuck, they don't know what to do. Um, I mean, I I just want to hear from you as another therapist. How do you deal with people who feel stuck? Because you know, you've written a book about marriage, um, people who feel stuck in their marriages, who don't want to, but still don't want to leave, and yet remain uh miserable and then have are dealing with a lot of violence, gender-based violence, right? So uh we have a high number of femicide in South Africa, and uh people are uh women are just dying all the time. So I wanna how how I'd love to hear your thoughts on what is the belief they have or they staying with that's keeping them that's destroying them. That's this um what's the most destructive belief they have? Um that's actually destroying them.

SPEAKER_02 24:42

That that's that's multi-layered. I feel like you know, there are a lot of potentially in that situation, there are a lot of cultural influences and pressures. Um, and I'm not fully attuned to what those are, so I don't want to speak out of ignorance, but I imagine there are some cultural and societal pressures for them to stay in that relationship. Outside of that, if there's an opportunity for them to leave or to get out and they don't, maybe that's more of what I can speak to. Um, okay. I think um it's gosh, oh wow, that there are so many things that I think run through a woman's head, a person's head, but especially for women when they are when they feel stuck in a relationship. If there's if there for a lot of people there are financial pressures, so they don't feel like they can get out, they don't have the financial resources to get out. And I don't know what resources they have access to where you are, um, but that's something to educate them about if there are any kind of resources or um help or shelters or different things that they can be um a part of. Again, that's I'm ignorant of those things. So um, but I think in in general, it's you know, a lot of women believe they they've been raised to believe, or they've come to believe, or they've been told by the abusive spouse to believe that they can't do any better. No one's gonna want you, right? You can't do any better. I'm as good as it gets. You need to just stick it out, and you know what, or we're married and that's forever, that's a covenant under God, etc. etc. That's probably a discussion into itself, but covenant marriages are very different than regular marriages. So if they're if there's a belief that it's a covenant marriage, abuse is a violation of the covenant. So that's a again, probably a separate discussion. At the end of the day, what I tell people in this situation is they usually come into me because they feel a lot of anxiety, most likely some depression, um, a lot of angst, a lot of personal struggle. And I say this I say the antidote for anxiety is control. Let me say that again. The antidote for anxiety is control. So whatever it is that you can do within the confines of your situation, financially, socially, culturally, whatever it is, find ways that you can take control and feel more positive. Now, again, I'm saying this without a full understanding of all of the things that people are dealing with where you are. Um, so I don't, I'm not trying to minimize anyone's experience, but any little thing that you can do to help you feel more control of your situation. And I don't mean controlling other people, I mean controlling yourself and your environment. So for some people that's self-care. For some people, that's socializing, getting some social support. For some people, that's cleaning, literally cleaning up their environment so that the brain sees that it has more control, things are more organized. There are lots of ways to get control in one's environment. Theoretically, hopefully, what that does is that helps someone to feel just a modicum of more, a modicum of confidence. So just a little more confidence. And then success breeds confidence, breeds success. So then maybe that next step is that gives them the strength to look into local resources to help them get out of their situation, or um look into finding work if that's a possibility. Um, whatever it is, we want to decrease the anxiety in the environment so that they feel more control and more confidence so they can move forward, whatever that looks like for them, again, within the confines of their situation. So, again, I don't know all of the parameters, so hopefully that doesn't sound ignorant, but that's just what what I generally tell people is about getting some control in an anxious environment.

SPEAKER_00 28:52

Okay, thank you for that. I think Ra has some a question to ask you.

SPEAKER_01 28:57

Well, I have so many things to add to that. Like, I love what Dr. Chan said, where she said, like, you know, I don't know the scenario, I don't know the situation. You see, because I'm from Trinidad and Tobago, my mom was domestically violently abused for years. We were living in that. And like, you know, I always tell the story that you wake up every single morning, you see the newspaper with someone be killed, domestic violence and and stuff like that. And yeah, this is something that lived inside you that you have to think, oh my god, I hope this doesn't happen on you. Pray that this doesn't happen to your mom. Now, you're coming from a country like Trinidad and Tobago. Only yesterday she was telling me, she's like, rah, you need to somehow get to the prime minister because there's so many suicides, there's so many domestic violent cases that's happening that women are running away and stuff like that. Now, when you are in that scenario, and I have spoken to her about this, and this happened in the 90s, 80s. So we're coming forward now in 2026, and you said the things that you can control, the things it has so many things that Dr. Jen is on social media with all these beautiful videos. Dr. Tash is doing it, we're doing it on mental health bites, and there are other million people like us out there doing this. But at the end of the day, in 2026, we see so many people going through these abuses, so many people stuck in relationships. We ask ourselves why. And I want to know the reason that you think in depth of why. Why do you know something and allow it to keep happening?

SPEAKER_02 30:28

I think it's uh it's a mindset situation that that again, the cultural pressures, the societal pressures, the personal pressures, so whatever situation you grew up in, all of that feeds into your train of thought, your thinking, and you have this idea that you can't escape, you can't do any better, you can't support yourself, you would never make it. Now, some of these are again personal beliefs that maybe someone even came into the relationship with. Other beliefs are brought on by the abusive spouse. Many, many spouses who are abusive, a lot of them are um, they have either they have some personality features along maybe the narcissistic continuum or the antisocial personality continuum, maybe full-blown personality disorder, but they're they're somewhere on that continuum in a lot of cases, because the whole idea behind narcissism and and um antisocial personality, even psychopathy, it's violating the rules, the rights of other people without really giving a care. And so if they think it's okay to do that, they're gonna be pulling out all of the stops to try and control this person and keep them in that situation. There's a lot of brainwashing, um, a lot of manipulation, uh that so much of the abuse is is physical, but so much of it is psychological as well, manipulating someone, gaslighting them into believing they can't do any better. So I think a person becomes persuaded, for lack of a better word, that that they can't do any better. And again, if they came into the marriage with these ideas about, I don't know, women as second-class citizens or women as needing to be homemakers, so don't get a job and you know, let your spouse bring in the money. I again, I don't know. People people have all kinds of ideas coming into marriage. I've seen this over 20 plus years, but they get themselves in this situation where they feel like there's nothing they can do differently, so they feel very inept, they feel very um hopeless or helpless, and that's why I say start small, just start with finding something that gives you just a tiny bit of control, and then we pray that that just builds on itself, and then maybe you you know come across some resources or seek out some support or what have you, depending on what's available in your area.

SPEAKER_01 33:01

Just to add into the air a little bit before Dr. Tash take over. Um what did you know, like what did the army teach you about human behavior that civilians understand when it comes to like this same entire attitude and thinking that I'm stuck and stuff like this?

SPEAKER_02 33:22

I'd have to, I'd have to probably think on that. It's been a long time since I was in the military. I got out a long time ago. Um, but one of the things that comes to mind is even in that situation, a couple of things. So, my own experience, and then what I noticed in other people. So my own experience was that the army taught me that what I was truly capable of in the best way. So, physically for me, um, it was a challenge, and it taught me what I was capable of and how I had to shift my attitude and my mindset into this place of just just do it. Get Nike about it, right? And just do it. Just try the thing, just do it. Worst case scenario, you fail, you've got people who are gonna help you, you try again. So just realizing what I was capable of because I told myself, you just have to do this. Like you literally don't have a choice, you have to do this, so figure it out. Um, so that was kind of my battle with myself. For other people um coming into my office, so I worked um at Fort Wachuca, which is a military intelligence um post in southern Arizona, and I had a lot of people who were so they were there for their first level training, some of them. The ones who came specifically um for military intelligence, uh, I mean, sometimes I was getting them right when they got there, and sometimes they were already like more in an advanced level, and they were trying to narrow their focus. So a couple of different groups of people, but um, a lot of the newbies um would struggle with the power and control that other people were exercising over them because you know, in the military they're they're training you, they're breaking you down to build you up, they're they're they're indoctrinating you into their way of doing things and into some self-belief. Again, that was the beautiful part for me. Um, and a lot of people just felt like they just couldn't do it, they couldn't hack it. I saw people who, in a lot of cases, they they had every, they they they wanted to be there, they were excited to be there, but their trauma was being triggered by the training.

SPEAKER_00 35:39

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 35:40

So the drill sergeants and the um commanders and all these different people in power, they weren't necessarily doing anything abusive or or terrible, but it was just a trigger for them, this authority figure telling them what to do, how to do it, when to do it, where to do it, right, how often to do it, whatever. Like all these rules, everything had a regulation and a rule that went with it. So a lot of them were being triggered by those um experiences. And so just helping them with two things. One, gain control over what you can, and two, figure out what in your history is trigging triggering this so that you can shift your paradigm and then change your mindset and make it through the experience. So I think it it just really taught me a lot about the the human capacity, and then a lot about triggers, and honestly, you know, as I look back, the importance of understanding family of origin in terms of why I'm having a hard time right now.

SPEAKER_00 36:46

Right. I think it's so important what you said because uh you know, sometimes discipline uh can be a trauma for for many uh people because the discipline and the way of discipline was distorted, you know, um, or it was um it wasn't conventional, it was different. It was so even someone screaming at you would uh come at a uh would be a trigger and make you feel like you're unloved and invalidated and not um not accepted. And then you you were talking about uh the human capacity, right? And I think that's so uh that is what uh people don't understand. It's resilience. Uh many people talk to me and say, How did you overcome so much? And uh there's a there's a difference between resilience and uh which I feel comes through processing what happened to you. So you come to a point where you say, This hurt me, this really, really hurt me, right? And um I'm you know, and then I'm going to work with it, and then what am I going to do with this now? How am I going to uh move forward with it? And I think people are still stuck in the middle where they're saying, Okay, this hurt me, but I don't know what where to go or how to do this um going forward. So they so resilience becomes almost where you say I'm fine. It's a hyper activity of I'm fine, and everyone sees this hyper performance and thinks you're fine because you've just become conditioned to be that. So um, yeah, I think that's a great point.

SPEAKER_02 38:40

I the the looking at it from a discipline um angle and and how you know as parents, we're we're supposed to discipline our kids and lead them down the right path. But a lot of parents miss the mark or even become abusive in that process, and so um then, yes, when this discipline comes from a you know someone in military authority, it it's it's uh it's a trigger. That's a great way of explaining it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:08

Yeah, um, I have two kids, one's 21, and my baby's 12. And um, so just to to to give you, they say kids are extremely resilient, right? Um, and just to give you, uh, my so my son, his dad died when he was a baby, he was two, and my daughter, uh, she is um well, her dad and I are going through a divorce, but he chose to not have anything to do with her, and he put us through a paternity test, and he put it through saying that he doesn't want her, and he he um whenever she tried reached out to him, he just cut her off. So he's not spoken to her, seen her or had anything to do with her in the past uh three years. Um, and he lives two minutes away, okay? So I when I look at my son, right? He had a uh he was extremely resilient, but then uh, but he's he he he handled it in where uh in a in a situation where he lost his dad and he wanted to fill that position immediately. You know, he needed to have a daddy. Now I have a 12-year-old whose dad is alive but wants nothing to do with her, and so she's come to a point where it's not even resilience. I I see in her a way of survival in that she has now not replaced him, but chosen herself in everything. She's chosen herself instead of chosen to be some, you know, his daughter. So she she's now replaced all those things with art and music and drama and um you know just just filling her life with it. And like you said, find the things that you can control. So I'm seeing a 12-year-old actually with the maturity of someone in their 20s, and then I have a 21-year-old with the maturity of someone who's a lot younger. But with the big one, if uh the little one, if I say, mommy's gonna whack you, and I and I say it in a very joking way, I tell this to Ra all the time as well, and she immediately thinks, why, mom, did I do something wrong? Uh, because I'm her only constant and stable uh person. So that's what happens. You you you try to stay as safe as possible, and you get stuck in your comfort zone of um chaos. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:40

Um I think it, I think it's great that she's I mean, it sounds like she's um, I mean, the the the situation with her dad, I mean, I think in in a state, I don't obviously I don't know your daughter, but generally in a situation like that, it calls your identity into question. Like if this person doesn't want anything to do with me and I came from their genetic material 50%, literally, um, then what does that mean? And who am I and what does that say about me? And of course, we want to teach our children it says nothing about you and everything about them. Um, but for her to pursue these aspects of her identity, I think is beautiful. The thing we don't want to miss is, and I'm sure you you've got this, but I'll just say it for listeners who might be going through this.

SPEAKER_00 42:22

That's what I want you to do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:24

Okay. Is we it and it goes back to your point, honestly, that that resilience comes, I love that. Resilience comes out of processing and making sense of and then compartmentalizing in a healthy way, and then separate the wheat from the chaff and move forward with the lessons. And so I think it's great that she's pursuing all of these things, she's occupying her mind, she's diversifying, she's establishing an identity at such a young age, which is lovely. I think the thing we don't want to miss is making sure that she does process and and just inviting her, like, how are you doing? And you know, um, or even just telling her, hey, I read something today about someone who's going through, or I talked with someone today, you know, about this similar situation. I just want to make sure you're okay. And I just want to make sure you understand that we live on a planet of over eight billion people. One person who decides not to be in your life, genetic material contribution or not, doesn't define you, sweetheart. And I want you to know that. And I and I am so proud of you. We don't say this often to our children in love. I am so proud of you for pursuing all of these things. I also want to make sure that you're okay. And can we talk about how you're feeling about this situation and you know what kind of thoughts you're having about your dad? Like, let's just directly talk truth. You know, so so allowing her that freedom to to have some control and establish an identity, God bless her, and then also. You know, just making sure that she's okay and helping her build the resilience through processing, like you mentioned. I love that idea.

SPEAKER_01 44:08

You know, like a lot of things I heard, and some of the things that we know from the past, and I love how you said, Dr. Jen, that you you separate some of those things moving forward, and that's like I always say we let go. And most of the time, I think, and this is my personal way of seeing it is acceptance. Accepting the things and the scenarios, how it go on, that you learn from it, you move forward. And as I bring in acceptance, I want to say, Dr. Jen, everyone, look out for her. On April 25th is our 10th mental health conference, virtually called Acceptance. And this will bring out the stories of all of our motivational speakers that will tell you their lived experience and how they have accepted to move forward. You know, we talk about your mental health, your mental stress. Think about it. You have a I'm 48 years old. I would not be sitting here with these amazing souls to help you to let go. Because if I had held on to 48 years of baggage, of being living in an abusive home, domestic violent home, it goes on and on with my life story. And if I had kept that, think about the Titanic's anchor. I've been pulling that on the seashore. And while I pull that, it's gathering more garbage. Because guess what? You know that thing they said, hurt people, hurt people. That's what's that's a hurt. You're bringing the hurt and you're tossing it out there. So here's what my garbage that I'm accumulating was going on there. But guess what? When you learn that, hey, rah, it happened, Mr. Trauma Talks, drop it, let's move forward. But you always move forward, and this is my way of seeing it. You move forward, but you bring the things that is necessary that taught you the lessons as you go forward. And this is the thing, let go, but accept. And I love, love the two powerful people we have on here today. I want every one of you on iHat Radio, on Spotify, on Amazon Music, wherever you're listening to this podcast from, show Dr. Jen some love when she tells you where you can find her on Instagram. I want you to follow her, follow Dr. Tash and listen to them. Because listen, you see, most of the changes that happen with you, someone else has lived it. And if you listen to them, trust me, you would find some sort of feeling inside to say, hey, if they can do it, I can do it too. And remember, what is meant for you shall never pass you by, and what passes you by was never meant for you. Just as there once was a man who had the blues because he had no shoes down the street. He met a man who had no feet. You know, Dr. Jen, fun happens so fast, and when I say fun, we are here to help, we are here to let others understand they are not alone. But time is ticking, and we are so happy that you took the time out to come over here and be part of our community on mental health bites. So, my last question for you is why do so many people stay in stuck emotional patterns? And this is the word, right? Patterns where it has pain and identity, and it continues to confuse both of them, but yet they do not accept that.

SPEAKER_02 47:43

So they stay stuck in emotional patterns, they don't like it or it's confusing, but they they choose to accept it and stay stuck. Is that okay? So honestly, it comes down to ignorance. And ignorance does not mean stupidity, ignorance simply means a lack of awareness, right? So if if I how can I get better if I don't know that I can be better, that I can think differently, and then how the heck to get there? So it's it the way we do that is we expose ourselves to resources like these, you know, um formats and podcasts and um social media and videos and classes and books, and you have to really dig in. I think the the problem is you first have to acknowledge that there's a problem, right? And so people stay stuck and they accept it because they don't know any better. Or, andor they don't believe that it can be any different. Again, that's what makes working with BPD so rewarding to me is that these people come from, in most cases, long histories of trauma, and they're like, this is just my lot in life, and this is how I process it, and then I react to the world in this way, and it causes a lot of problems. Well, I'm here to tell you that there's so much that you can do differently. You know, that you can dig into your past and understand those origins, and then we have this beautiful therapeutic modality that we can use that helps you do things differently. And so I think people just resign themselves to certain things because they don't know any better. And then I think another piece is related to self-esteem. So whatever they have been through, it's damaged their self-esteem, their self-image, um, their confidence. And so they don't feel like they can, even if you present them with information a lot of times, they don't feel like they can do any better or do any differently. And that's why I always tell people start small. Like the second half of my marriage book, it's called Fix Your Freaking Marriage, but it's called Practical Tips to Just Start Somewhere. That's the idea. Whether we're talking about marriage, a personality disorder, betrayal, whatever it is, just start somewhere. Just pick a place, pick something small, find some sort of semblance of control in your environment and start there. So I think it comes down to those two things self-esteem and then ignorance of options.

SPEAKER_00 50:16

I love that you said that, uh, Dr. Jen, because a lot of people I find uh there's still so much stigma with mental health awareness and so much uh ignorance, as you said, which doesn't mean stupidity, but uh a lack of awareness of how deeply trauma affects your life and uh you know and the choices you make and your identity and who you are. But people don't want to invest in themselves in that aspect. They will go and rather, you know, um spend thousands on something else, but they don't want to invest in in themselves and then still tell you that they stuck, they don't know what to do and how to go forward. So, like I was saying, is that this happened to me and it hurt me, but I don't know how to go forward. So they're stuck in the middle on the fence, and and and then they don't want to be a um uh mental health patient, you know. Um they won't don't want to be told they are not in control of their emotions and their thoughts and their feelings. And I love the way you you said it. It's it's it's generally it's it's such a lack of ignorance, and it's it's uh I mean it's such a a point of ignorance, uh lack of awareness of how important it is to get to talk to someone to identify the trauma triggers to understand um where it comes from and how. And uh so it's it's just an eye-opener listening to you. I'm going to be following you, and I want to thank you so much for joining us. I know you have to go now, but I want to um thank you so much for joining us. If you can just give your handles, social media handles to uh the people looking in. You now just have a South African audience as well. So if you can uh share your um your handles with them. I know Rai is sharing your books with them right now, but yeah, as a as a parting uh yeah, tell us about you. Where can we find you? What what do you have available? Sure.

SPEAKER_02 52:25

So on Amazon you'll find all of the books. That's um Jennifer Bellingratt. You can just do a search for my author page. There's Fix Your Freaking Marriage, and then the menopause book is audio and ebook, and then get over it, the new the new uh book that I just came out with for overcoming betrayal. That's on Amazon. On um TikTok, that's probably the largest following over there. That's at shrink.think. And that's mostly it's all mental health content, mostly content for borderline personality disorder. Um, and then on Instagram, it's the at the psych with a mic, which is also the name of my podcast. The psych with a mic, you can find it on Spotify, Apple, all the platforms. Um Facebook is just my name. You can type in Jennifer Bellingrad. I have a unique enough last name that I'm pretty much the only one out there, so that should come up. You'll see my picture. Um, let's see. YouTube is um at is uh Shrink Think with Dr. Jen. So that's a growing platform, lots of uh mental health content over there as well. I believe that's everything.

SPEAKER_00 53:36

Oh, that's amazing. I I thank you so much for being on the show. Uh Ra. If you can come and just um uh you know uh while Ra is coming in, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:49

We still had like five minutes. I was gonna ask a question, but I think you guys are good.

SPEAKER_00 53:55

I've I've got time, I've got time. Okay, I think we're just stressing about that.

SPEAKER_01 54:01

No, no, no. I wanted to make sure I share all her stuff because I want people to follow her. It's it's like you know, all right. If someone comes across mental by to your trauma talks or trauma behind the glamour, people say so many amazing things that I want them to hear, you know what I mean? And it's simple, Mr. Trauma Talks. So with her, she every I would you believe while we are doing this, I'm checking on the live, right? So I I put my phone on an Instagram as I pull the phone, the first thing pop up is is Dr. Jen on one of her videos, and it's good, it's not something that you know you need this. When I say you, I mean you that listening, that's looking at the stream. Every one of us, something that she says will somehow line up perfectly. And when I say line up perfectly with your life, it would not be the same exact word-for-word scenario, but it is your story, and in order to fix your story, you need to actually follow, listen, and understand. This is the thing mindset starts with understanding, and understanding who you are that can only happen by you reflecting. You are not. I have my book sitting right here, and I tell this all the time. My book, Untold Stories, Hidden Truths, is a story about a woman, and she speaks about her brother. In the story, it's in the book, it's called Real Nightmares because she used to have her brother, he used to rape her and abuse her from small. She's married with two kids, is a story that goes on, and she has all these nightmares over and over. She allowed him to do this to her to save her sister, her little sister. So when you hear these things, but guess what? She overcame. She took it along very far until she came to a spot, a time in her life where she's sitting in a bathroom and her daughters is ponging on the door, talking to her mommy. Are you okay in there? Whatever. But here she is stuck, she's like in this nightmare or daytime, waking, but is in this nightmare that happened in the past. It is tough, it is hard, it is trauma. But listen, if you reflect and you realize it is not your fault, this is not your story. You're not you don't have to hold on to that. It happened. We are all here. We want you to know that. So listen, reflect, understand, love yourself. Dr.

SPEAKER_00 56:51

Jen, for that for that person sitting in bed at night crying and feeling like there is no way and all is lost. What would you say to them?

SPEAKER_01 57:02

Love this.

SPEAKER_02 57:08

Um, there's there's always hope. I mean, I've been doing this for over 20 years. The military sector, the civilian sector. I I I know I haven't seen it all, but I've seen a lot. I've seen people in like at the end of their rope, at their wit's end, whatever metaphor you want to use, just feeling so hopeless. And someone comes along, they they land in my path by no accident. I don't believe in accidents. So they land in my path. I can give them just an iota of hope, gets them to come to the next session, gets them to do the homework, and then come to the next. There is always hope. Sometimes that's the only thing you have is hope, but there is always hope. And so don't give up. Educate yourself, rail against the ignorance, fight the ignorance by reading a book, following us on social media, following other experts on social media. Um, take a course, go to therapy, look for a support group online if you want to be anonymous. You know, the the a lot of people we were talking about ignorance and and self-esteem. And to your point, Tash, it a lot of it's is is uh fear. They don't want to be they don't want to be seen as a mental health patient, as you said. But listen, we all have mental health issues. You can't have a brain in this world without some sort of issue. Maybe you don't have trauma, maybe you have so much trauma that you can't even see straight. But you know, whatever it is, you can't be in this world for more than a couple seconds and just have everything be glorious. I mean, there's gonna be stuff. So we we could all be mental health patients, we could all benefit from therapy. The other thing is fear of what's going to come out. So don't be afraid of that. You're with someone, if you're in therapy, you're with someone who's gonna support you and walk beside you as all of this stuff comes out. But if you don't bring that stuff into the light, out of the darkness, into the light, then you can't process it. You can't build resilience like we were talking about. You have to get some help. We're on a planet of over 8 billion people. I can't say that enough. There is a reason for that. We're not meant to go it alone. Let someone escort you, walk you through, hold your hand, guide you through getting better. A lot of us have been doing this for decades. We can help. Don't give up. No matter how desperate your situation feels, I guarantee you, you can make changes. It can get better. You can find hope. Again, sometimes hope is the only thing we have, but it's there. It's there. You just have to see it, and you just have to do something to help yourself, even if it's just buying a book, whatever it is, just start somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 59:56

I I I also recognized with a lot of people that they think as therapists and as uh psychologists, we are perfect, our lives are perfect, we have everything together, we don't go through anything, we don't, you know, so so they think oh, we'll never understand. And I I mean, Ra will tell you, I write every day and I let people know, hey, I understand, I've been through this, I've felt this, I've done this, I've gone through this. One of the things that uh I deal with a lot is betrayal, right? And I was betrayed uh after uh uh 15 years of marriage, 16 years of marriage, my husband left me for my best friend. So it it that was a double betrayal, right? But yes, it hurts, it stings, my God, it stings. Um, but I don't think I would have been able to get through that because it's one of the worst uh pains you can go through, right? Someone you you trusted for so many years of your life, you shared children with you, built a home with you, you loved immensely, right? Um betrayed you. So it's not something that um is easily um, it takes a long time to get over. But for me, it took me, I think, at least a year to process it, to to go through the different, you know, grief is not all always losing someone to death. Grief is you can grieve many things, right? Grieving my marriage was one of them, and and I tell people, you know, we have to go through the stages of grief, and it took me longer than I expected, but um, but each person works at their own pace, right? But I want you to to for those people who are stuff going through depression, um betrayal, um, the pain of betrayal. What advice would you give them?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:56

Oh, wait, Dr. Um Tash and Dr. Jen. Dr. Jen, you hold that thought right there. I'm not interrupting, I want to add on to what she said. Because here we have betrayal in that sort. Now, I have learned love and I I I love people, and that's me. I I I don't know why. You hurt me, and I still love you. And this is me. So coming moving forward with relationships. I learned, and this is my earlier years, I was in a 10-year relationship, and I speak about this all the time. Actually, when I did a few episodes back, we have four episodes with Ask Miss Emma, Dr. Emma Norfleet. And one of the things we did was make a music video with my song Wicked Game. And in the music video, she's dancing with me, and then you'll see she danced with Freddie. And in that sense, now I want to bring this in. This is this happens, and it happened with me. Think about you go to you're in love with someone, you don't want this is was my way of it. You don't want to share that person you love, and you are in a club, you're having a good time where people know you, and there you have the person you love is connected, sucking down the amount with another person, another person, and here you are, that person, it's just a kiss, and like it was not a kiss, and you love that person, that person's supposed to love you back in a way, and then you have to recognize this thing keeps happening, and it's always never a serious thing that when they use the words I love you, should mean I love you. So, with that, can you add with those two to bring in that betrayal, that type of betrayal? Sorry.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:37

Yeah, I think um, you know, there a few things come to mind on that. I mean, uh, Ra, the example that you gave with that person, you know, doing these things and then sort of gaslighting you that it was nothing, and I mean, that's that's insanity, as you were right to point out. Like that's not just a kiss. And and oh, by the way, kissing someone else is still a violation of the of the relationship. Um, but yeah, yeah, I think betrayal, it it happens. It it absolutely happens, you know, we see it all the time, we experience it. And so it it happens so often that I, as I said, I wrote a book about it. So the way that that happened for me um is that I experienced a professional betrayal. And I write about the the story in the book, but the reader's digest version, I experienced another professional betrayal, and I was really up in my feelings, it really caught me off guard. So I needed a way to process that, right? To build my resilience, as we talked about. So I hopped on the treadmill, got on my laptop, and just started typing my thoughts and feelings. Before I knew it, I had 6,000 words, and I was like, oh, wow, I really felt some type of way about this, right? And and if I did, then certainly other people do. I mean, I've been dealing with people in the in the throes of betrayal for decades. And so that's when I decided to turn it into a book. Before you knew it, I had 32,000 words, and that's what you can now buy on Amazon. And the reason that that book was written is to teach people you can get over it. Now I use get over it loosely, but the the the reason the book has such a bold title is because of that unapologetic truth telling. Like you, you, you, you can you have a choice. You can stay stuck in this crap and what this person did to you, or you can move forward. Get over it doesn't mean forget. It may or may not mean forgiveness for you. Hopefully it does, because that's incredibly healing. But just finding a way to understand, going back to what you said earlier, Rob, about hurt people, hurt people. That I talked about that in the book. When you're living in your own pain, sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees, and you don't understand the ways that you're hurting people or the ways that you're, excuse me, sort of in your own way, which is what. Happened with this person is she was in her own way and she did this thing and she did it to other people too at the same time, and you know, we've all moved on, and and we're we're okay. But um just recognizing again, it helps if you believe there are no accidents, there's no such thing as coincidence. It also helps if you believe, even if you don't believe that, but you do believe that you know there's something that's put in my path and there's a lesson I can take. Again, separating the wheat from the chaff and taking those lessons and moving forward. Like, you know, in the example that you gave, Rob, like, okay, well, when I look for a partner in the future, what am I gonna do differently? What am I gonna make sure we both understand, right? Or, or let me make sure I've worked on my stuff because water seeks its own level. So the healthier we are, the healthier the partners we seek and allow in our environment. So let me make sure I get myself real healthy, let me make sure this person understands what the expectations are, et cetera, et cetera. So we can choose to take those lessons and move forward with resilience and choose to move through the betrayal and not let it define us. The thing, the thing that I tell people is, you know, a lot of times something bad happens and we want to act like it defines us. You know, we're talking about this earlier with your daughter, Tosh, that like that doesn't define her. That's not her identity that this person, you know, left and couldn't be bothered to be a father and and do the right thing. It doesn't, it doesn't have to define you. And I always tell people, like, look, do you think about good things that you've done in your life? Maybe you were successful at this or did a good job at that or had, you know, um got a lot of kudos for this thing that you did at work or with your family or whatever. Do you let those good things entirely define you? Well, hopefully not, right? Because we're all a combination of positive and negative. But if you don't let those good things define you, why in the heck are you gonna let the bad things define you? Like you can't have it both ways, right? This is the truth telling that the book is all about. Like you don't get to have it both ways. And so, what can you do differently? What can you learn? How can you change your behavior going forward? Um, all of those things are detailed in the betrayal book. I'm I'm really proud of that book, and I think part of it is because it's it's my story and it comes from a place of genuine um pain and overcoming. Um, and so it's just I I really just hope that it speaks to people. But the betrayal, any betrayal, you can move through that. You can move beyond it, you can get past it. You don't have when I say get over it, I mean don't get over this idea that it's gonna define you or define the rest of your life or define all of your future relationships or whatever. It absolutely does not have to do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:51

I think Jen, that it's because um your identity uh comes into question. And then you know, people are saying, I'm not good enough. I uh what did I do? Why am why am I not lovable? I don't um I'm not quite uh I'm uh you know I disqualify for true love or and they they start uh living in those false narratives about um what that one act of betrayal did for them. But people are like you said, they are different. They uh we come to realize that their patterns, they have patterns, and uh whether it takes one year or ten years or 15 years or 20 years, they still, if they don't process, they still follow the same pattern, which is what I realized about um my marriage, my husband at my marriage, is that he never processed, and so he just went back to, and it was not a definition of me, it was a definition of him. Because uh one of the things they told me in court, the first thing they told me in court was he broke the marriage contract, not you, right? So when you and with Raw as well, when you're in a in a relationship and you commit to it, if they break the the the promise, then really it's a definition of who they are, not you.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:17

Yes, so so I think I you know we we're we're all over the time, and I I I want people to want more of this. So I would love Dr. Chen. She said something in between when she was talking about her book, Get Over It, and she said it's part of my story as well. So we have Trauma Talk Thursdays. We would love to give you a spotlight uninterruptedly to tell us your story, and we can have a small conversation. Sure. So we'd love to have you back on the show, and you know what? I've been looking at some of the comments on YouTube, and one of them stands out it says, and Dr. Tashi would hear with this, it says, You can love someone, but you cannot accept expect someone to love you back. And just two days ago, I was speaking to someone else because I'm put, you know, I put some levels. I when I I I go back into something, I always leave the door fully open. You see, most people go into things with the wall up already, but you go with the door open, and when you go with the door open though, you put some steps in, and when those steps are gone, they call them boundaries. And when you find that, okay, hey, I I give 10 things I want to cross off the list, and if it happens, all right. So while I was speaking to someone two days ago, one thing that's what's shining, what he said to me is he says, Ra, you could never be in a relationship with someone who wants to be in a relationship with other people, and that that just stood out. And and I think everyone should understand that. So, Dr. Jen, I I we really need to cut this here, but it's so great. You are Dr. Tash. So we will have you back and we'll make the announcement and have you back on Trauma Talk Thursdays. But everyone, look out for her on April 25th, and she comes together with our amazing panel, and they all come together to share stories of acceptance. And as I say this, don't forget June 19th, June 11th, right here in New York City in person, is our mental health conference. A mental health conference happening on a stage on Broadway in a theater. Mind-blowing what happens on Broadway, drama, but we are bringing trauma. We have amazing Grammy award-winning artists like Jerry Wonder, Paul Anthony. We have the fifth president of Trinidad and Tobago, Anthony Camona. We have great, great speakers like Mr. Trauma Talks himself. Come out, listen, because someone out there will connect with you for you to understand you are not alone. This is Dr. Tash, Dr. Jen, and Ra signing off for mental health bites. Get over it. We love you all.