we are NOT the SAME
We Are Not the Same: Join our comedic journey as Bodybuilder Barbie flexes her muscles against Daria’s dry wit! Dive into the hilarity of life’s twists and turns through the eyes of two contrasting besties who prove that different perspectives lead to the best stories. Tune in for laughs, randomness, and a sprinkle of chaos!
we are NOT the SAME
When Mind and Memory Collide: The Trauma-ADHD Connection
"Is my brain actually broken, or is it just responding to something?" This question haunts millions of people trying to understand why they struggle with focus, emotional regulation, and executive function.
In this raw and revealing conversation, we dive into the complex overlap between trauma responses and ADHD symptoms—a confusing territory where even mental health professionals sometimes struggle to make accurate diagnoses. Drawing from our personal experiences (including Lacey’s recent ADHD diagnosis at age 39), we unpack why symptoms like difficulty concentrating, emotional dysregulation, and sleep disturbances can stem from dramatically different origins but look nearly identical on the surface.
The key differences emerge when we examine triggers. Trauma-related symptoms typically arise in response to specific triggers or reminders of past experiences, while ADHD symptoms tend to be more pervasive regardless of environment. We share vulnerable moments from our lives—like failing classes despite being in honors programs, struggling with everyday tasks like grocery shopping, or being unable to cry for months after losing someone—to illustrate how these conditions manifest and often amplify each other.
Most powerfully, we discuss how both conditions create a sense of playing life on "hard mode" without knowing it, and how proper diagnosis and treatment finally provide some tools to navigate the challenges. Whether you're questioning your own diagnosis, supporting someone who struggles with these issues, or simply curious about the intersection of trauma and neurodevelopmental conditions, this episode offers clarity, validation, and hope for finding effective support.
Have you experienced symptoms that could be either trauma or ADHD? We'd love to hear your story and what's helped you distinguish between them in your own journey.
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back. Hello, hello, welcome to. We are not the same I'm heather I'm lacy, oh, we never do that we never do.
Speaker 2:I think you're like every once in a while, because sometimes our co-host ai can't distinguish yeah and it fucks it up and I have to go and correct it. I'm like that wasn't me, that was lacy that's funny. So heather gardner, your ifbb wellness pro, and lacy Gardner, your IFBB wellness pro, woo, woo and.
Speaker 1:Lacey. Oh my God, that's how we have to introduce ourselves to everybody going forward, like anytime we're together and we meet new people. Can we please introduce ourselves like that, because that was fucking hilarious. And Lacey and Lacey.
Speaker 2:That's fair, that's fine, I am a background person. No, I am the sun, you are the moon, you are the tigger, I am the eater. No truer statements were ever made um. So today we have a really great, uh informative topic that we also have a lot of personal experience with wow go figure shocking, um so is it trauma or adhd? We're gonna dive deep and figure it out, or is it?
Speaker 1:or are we gonna figure it out, or are we?
Speaker 2:gonna be just as confused as ever are we gonna make it through to our topic. Are we gonna go down a rabbit hole or we call them?
Speaker 1:we call them cul-de-sacs around here because eventually we get back around eventually depends how big the cul-de-sac is sometimes there's a cul-de-sac within a cul-de-sac sometimes there's side quests inside the cul-de-sac I like the side quest all right, so easier than the main one um trauma can manifest with symptoms that closer closely resemble those of adhd, leading to diagnosis.
Speaker 2:But trauma, in particular childhood trauma, can impact attention, focus and executive function, which mirrors adhd's core symptoms, such as inattentive hyperactivity, impulsivity, impulsivity.
Speaker 1:Let me just say that does it say how you're supposed to tell the difference? Because if it mimics, which is like almost identical.
Speaker 2:I'm getting there.
Speaker 1:Yes, it is almost identical.
Speaker 2:However, trauma's effects are often tied to specific triggers and past experiences, unlike ADHD which is generally considered a neurodevelopment condition. So if one is constant and one only occurs, so one is more like all the time and one is brought on by trigger, trigger, oh, my god, can I not talk? What was that? I don't know, because I had a rice cake and so my mouth was like dry and my lip that was what it was.
Speaker 2:Oh, it was. I swear was it. My lip just got like stuck. Anyways, it's what it is. Um. So the trauma triggers can bring it up. We'll go more into it. But here's the thing, like in your case and possibly mine too, we're just fucked from both angles, like this way and that way we got both of them, so it's like double um. So the similarities, attention and difficulty concentrating both trauma and adhd can cause problems with focus and concentration. We just talked about this. I dissociate, you dissociate um. In trauma this might be due to intrusive thoughts, flashbacks or hypervigilance, while in adhd it's often linked to difficulties with executive function, so just not being able.
Speaker 1:But you can have both yeah, then it's like, so you could have both, or one or the other, which is interesting because, like now that you said that, like I can clearly distinguish in my brain, like I can go back to certain events where like I was having moments and like I could tell you which one was causing it in the moment, because sometimes you get triggered and then you're and then your trauma and your ptsd.
Speaker 1:I feel like I know my trigger's pretty good. Yes, um, sometimes a new random one will come and hit me and like, those ones are really hard because I feel like I'm not prepared for it yes um, but then there.
Speaker 1:so then there are moments where I like I'm in the middle of the store and I know it's executive dysfunction, because my brain is just in a million places and I'm thinking of so many things at one time, and I'm thinking of all the things I need to grab and where I need to go and I just literally fucking spaz out in the middle of an aisle. Thank God for my child, because he's like mom, come to earth, but I know that's executive dysfunction because I can't make.
Speaker 1:I know I have to. I have to when I don't. It's a shit show at the grocery store and takes me twice as long as at bare minimum. I'm surprised that you don don't do like grocery pickup, because that saves my life if I don't have the capacity to go to the store. Um, so I did for a while I I would order groceries from walmart and I would pick them up. But now I specifically shop at winco and they don't have, they don't have that.
Speaker 1:So and I I financially have to shop at winco because let's be weird it's, it is cheaper than walmart I've never been to winco, I've never shopped at Winco. Walmart is more convenient because you can get everything that you need in one spot, and I specifically only go to Winco for groceries, like I don't buy non grocery items.
Speaker 2:I do Walmart or Costco, just depends.
Speaker 1:But I have three children so it's more economic for me to do the yeah, and I don't have my kids all the time, so like I buy a week at a time.
Speaker 2:And I eat a lot of chicken, broccoli and rice Because you prep.
Speaker 1:Yes, so it's easier for you to buy shit in bulk. Yes, but in those moments, like I know, that has nothing to do with trauma, that's literally I'm just so overwhelmed by the amount of things that I need to do in that moment that my body shuts down and I don't do anything. Yes, okay.
Speaker 2:I can yeah, I definitely same. I can yeah, I definitely same.
Speaker 1:I can tell which one's which which is weird, because I literally would have never thought about that prior to you making that statement.
Speaker 2:I never thought about that before okay, I didn't think about these because remember when I used to say one heightens the other, like I don't know if it's my trauma or my ADHD, but I swear my trauma brings it out more yeah, you said that multiple times, you've said that and now, like when I was reading this, that's when I just and I was like, oh yeah, podcast topic we have to talk about. Um, I was like that hits so hard. It was like which came first, the chicken or the egg?
Speaker 1:yeah, that's fucking the trauma which came first I don't know, because I don't remember my childhood same and do I like which? One. Is that Too right?
Speaker 2:Okay, no.
Speaker 1:I know, I just I literally just got diagnosed with ADHD on Thursday of last week. Like I'm going to turn 39 in days you guys.
Speaker 2:So why do I think it's? Oh yeah, I'm 39. I'm already there.
Speaker 1:No, I know, but I'm just there. No, I know, but I'm just saying, like how, how it's?
Speaker 2:not bad, you have it, you don't develop it.
Speaker 1:No, like the doctor even said he's like the only way, but you can harness it for good.
Speaker 2:I feel like I've heard it described as having a Ferrari brain, but with like broken brakes. Right, so being able to like use the brakes, like learning to harness the brain power. I see what you're trying to say you know like it's just difficult to maneuver, yes, but like once you figure out how to harness the power for good see, I don't look at it that way.
Speaker 1:I look I okay, because me miss silver lining over here.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly, also I hate doctors and I just don't want to get diagnosed because I read a thing that said that having adhd or any neurodivergency right, but anything that affects your brain is like playing a video game on hard without knowing that it's on hard and then, once you get a diagnosis or a treatment or something to help you cope, coping mechanisms, whatever. Whatever helps you, it's not. It's not like you're no longer on hard, You're still on hard, but now you have like helper stuff.
Speaker 1:Yes, you know what I mean like now you have like cheat codes to like help you be able to manage, but life is always still. It's on level hard and it's never not going to be hard so that is how I look at it, because I feel that I like that in my soul, because it's like I can do life, but it's fucking hard yeah, no, I like that analogy are not simple for me no, I get that.
Speaker 2:We can talk about how that restitution paperwork took me months for months fucking I was.
Speaker 1:I was like heather, you have to do that, you have to do that. But yeah, I finally did I get it.
Speaker 2:I kept doing parts of it and then it took a long time to get like a lot of receipts I had to like because they don't keep shit after several years, and he like sold shit and got rid of stuff that was like over three years old so like luke's phone had to go back the most I could. So yeah, it took a second, but yes, I finally got it done.
Speaker 1:That was me making more excuses because it could have taken a lot less time, but it took me that long I get it, but yeah, like it is, and that was part trauma part one of the things when, when I was talking to the doctor about getting diagnosed and again saying like, if he's like normally before we give it to like an older woman, he wasn't trying to offend me, but like ouch um he's like we need to pre-establish that you had ADHD when you were a child.
Speaker 1:And it just wasn't diagnosed. And he's like so what kind of symptoms or whatever do you feel like would explain that you had ADHD as a child? And my response to him was I was in honors classes and summer school at the same time, in the same school year. And he's like oh yeah, you have ADHD. I failed English I think it was 11th grade at the same time in the same school year. And he's like oh yeah, you have adhd. I failed english um, I think it was 11th grade uh, first semester within 45 days because I didn't turn in a single assignment.
Speaker 1:And she's like even if you turn in every other assignment, you already can't get higher than a 50. So you've already failed this class. So she's like you can just do, you know literally anything else. I just work on art in that class. But like, because and it's not because I wasn't smart, and it's not because I cause I was in honors class because I am smart I'm just not capable of sitting down and writing a fucking paper and having it do in this Like if I, if it doesn't interest me, it is like pulling teeth to force myself to do it and I can't. There's nothing I can do to make that better now.
Speaker 1:Or cleaning your house and you clean this bit, and then you're like, okay, so I'm going to do the dishes, right. And then while I'm doing the dishes I notice that out of the corner of my eye or something needs to go in the pantry. So then I'll pick, I'll stop doing the dishes and I'll pick that up and I'll go to the pantry and I'll open the pantry and I'll notice the kids left something in the pantry. So then, instead of putting the thing back, I don't even put the thing back. I'm still holding the thing that goes in the pantry. And then in my other hand I've now picked up the thing that goes in my know.
Speaker 1:There's dog toys on in the middle of the hallway. So then I set down the two things that I picked up that I now have not put away in either of their actual locations, and then I start picking up the dog toys and then I go to put those where those are supposed to go. And then I'll notice the bed isn't made. And then I'm like, oh, I'm working on my mental health, I need to make sure that my bed is made. So then I'm like and then by the end of it, nothing is fucking done. I have accomplished nothing. My house doesn't look any better. The only thing that's different is things are now in new places, and then I can't find them because I don't know where the fuck I put them on my cleaning journey. I hate cleaning.
Speaker 2:You need a house cleaner. That would help your mental health.
Speaker 1:I tried, and then I paid like 270 and only got half of my kitchen clean, and so I'm like, no, not doing that again.
Speaker 2:So I think you need a different cleaning service.
Speaker 1:I would love to have somebody, just like once a week, just fucking for my sanity, help me out. I am bad at it and it stresses me out, or I'll think about all the things that I need to do and it's too many things, so I'll just sit there and not do anything and I'll just be yelling at myself in my brain and be like you, fucking piece of shit.
Speaker 1:Like just just fucking do one thing, just like get up, get up, get up, get up, get up, and the other part is me, no, and there's no fucking arguing with that side. Can't I be that decisive? In every other fucking aspect of my life, no, just when I need to do shit so you'll have to keep us updated on how the um medication goes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm excited to try it. I'm really hoping and it's weird because of all the things I've done, I've never tried it. I've never once in my life ever tried Adderall or Ritalin or any of that, so I have no idea how it's going to affect me, but I really I'm excited to try it. That would be super cool to like do the dishes and just do the dishes.
Speaker 2:I want you're gonna be like cleaning your entire house.
Speaker 1:I'm not gonna hear from you for a week oh my god, I hope I would be so stoked. I was always all like why did I have to get the weird kind of ocd where, like, weird shit bothers me? Why couldn't I get the cleaning ocd? You're like, I want that mental disorder I know I mean, let's be real, I'm gonna have to have a mental disorder.
Speaker 2:Look at me like not necessarily, not necessarily okay. So hyperactivity, impulse and impulsivity. So trauma leads to restlessness, agitation and difficulty regulating emotions, guilty um, which appear similar to hyperactivity.
Speaker 1:So hypervigilance is a hallmark of ptsd and it can look like hyperactivity and distractibility, so it's hard to distinguish the two yeah, and I can see how, but that's the difference, okay, so trauma, so like from a brain perspective, in the moment, in the moment you're irritable, how do you, because of determine.
Speaker 2:So restless because of your flashbacks, whatever you're not getting good enough sleep, agitation and difficulty regulating emotions. I experienced that that after Luke passed, and the trauma because you're in a fight or flight when you get pulled out of that or like little things that would normally be little things you're going to blow up at because you're already at a state of agitation because your body and your central nervous system are stuck, I get irritable.
Speaker 1:Quick yes, fucking quick. It's like a zero to 100 in two seconds. It sucks. I hate it. That was loud, I heard that that was my hip.
Speaker 2:That's not great.
Speaker 1:I was stretching, I'm like I felt that for like days it felt like it doesn't feel better now yeah, that was loud but I heard that from here we're literally like complete opposite of each other, and I heard that that was my hip.
Speaker 2:I'm like oh, that felt better.
Speaker 1:I'm glad that felt better interesting okay, wow well and I think that's okay.
Speaker 1:So that's a big difference between the two. Is trauma, the way that it um sorry I wasn't in the microphone um, the way that it uh, can affect your body? I feel like ADHD affects your body, but in a very different way, because I feel like trauma is like specific pain in certain areas of your body and it just can get re-aggravated in that same area without having to have injury Because your body is having a traumatic response. I feel like ADHD, you won't really get injured because you're clumsy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, isn't that a sign of ADHDhd yeah, well, distractibility, yeah, and because I run into shit all the time because I'm not paying attention to what I'm doing, because your body is or your?
Speaker 2:your brain is scanning it onto the next, onto the next, you're not, you're not present in what you're doing in the moment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you get it for both ends. If I'm not actively paying attention to something, I will forget it like fucking not.
Speaker 2:You're just fucked because, like your trauma and your ADHD is just like you're a clumsy bitch, I'm covered.
Speaker 1:I know I am dude, dude. Yes. How many times have I had to wear that goddamn boot?
Speaker 2:Oh, I know my favorite story about when we weren't talking and then I saw you and you were in a boot and I'm like, yeah, of course nothing's changed.
Speaker 1:I know and I thought it too, I was like, fuck, I feel like she's gonna be a right fucking bitch. No, I didn't do that.
Speaker 2:I was just like, some things never change.
Speaker 1:I literally look at my hand. I stabbed myself in the hand yesterday. I cut my other finger open this morning trying to open a perfume bottle. Like I am so accident prone. It's fucking insane. I'm constantly injuring myself, but remember when my hip I literally thought I was gonna have to have hip surgery because it was so bad and it was in so much pain and I turns out it was a lemon turns out, I just needed some ketamine and to get rid of him, boy and then, my hips stopped hurting, but because it was somehow he was triggering me, like subconsciously, because literally it went away, my hip doesn't hurt anymore.
Speaker 1:Do you want to hear something messed?
Speaker 2:up what that? This whole executive function challenge thing that we're talking about, how we both have this, so both conditions affect these areas, oh great, such as planning, organization and time management, which, yeah time management.
Speaker 1:If it is not on my google calendar, I'm not going. And that's not like on purpose, that's just. I literally will forget me and you apparently I bring.
Speaker 2:I after it was on your calendar, so I don't care, because we had already.
Speaker 1:I remember us talking about it, but then I didn't get a pop-up which the universe is probably like.
Speaker 2:You guys are fine anyways, because once I went back we had enough episodes recorded, so we were good. But yeah, no, you have to.
Speaker 1:I and I have to set the alarm for these events an hour before the event. It has to be an hour. It has to be an hour because one day I accidentally forgot and it um for a doctor's appointment and it was only set for 10 minutes before because that, for some reason, that's the default and it won't let me change the default and I always have to change it to 60. And I forgot to change it to 60 so that fucking alarm didn't tell me I need to be at the doctor until 10 minutes before I need to be a doctor who was 25 minutes away from me. I was like fuck, it's bad, like I can't manage myself without someone, without intervention. I have to have something to keep me managed, because my brain can't do it on its own I mean, I feel the same.
Speaker 2:I definitely get that everything.
Speaker 1:The difference between me and you is mine is an electronic calendar and yours is like a paper calendar that you literally it's a giant fucking calendar yeah, it's a. You literally planner you write it out by hand. Yep, which is crazy to me, because I'm like how do you make adjustments to it?
Speaker 2:because there's a month. That gives me anxiety because there's a month, and then by the week, so then I have the day, so like you flip the month one and then there's like the week, there's day ones. So it's like I can just I in the month I like things that are not going to change, and then the day ones I can just so you have to look potentially in three different places.
Speaker 2:I look every day well if I need to look, I mean every day I just check and see what I need done it's too many steps. See, I like it because it just makes me feel more. It works for me. I've tried doing that. Maybe I need a different app.
Speaker 1:I've tried no, electronic, that's not one fits all. You know what it is.
Speaker 2:It's the like, the administrative assistant in me, the um, the one that's like doing all the, you know, all the admin. It's the admin in me. Yeah, I've always had like paper, you know, I've always had the calendars, I've written everything down, and so for me to go away from like I hate.
Speaker 1:I hate having to do anything with pen and paper I really enjoy it.
Speaker 2:I love it and I also love real books because I love the smell.
Speaker 1:I do prefer. That's fair. I do prefer a real book. I like having something tangible that I can hold. I do enjoy the convenience of uh, my kindle on my phone, but I'm not gonna buy a device individually to read books on. I don't understand that. You can do it on your phone, but I'm not going to buy a device individually to read books on. I don't understand that. You can do it on your phone or buy a real fucking book. I prefer to buy the real book, but I get a free e-book every month from Amazon Prime. It's fucking amazing. I love it. So I do both, but I do prefer I don't know what it is, which is also weird because because I don't like the feeling of wood, even though I love trees Like I can't walk barefoot on a desk.
Speaker 2:Is your doctor listening there? Right there with all the proof you need.
Speaker 1:Bears or ADHD. I like wood.
Speaker 2:Or I don't like wood.
Speaker 1:I don't like the feeling of wood, but I think it's beautiful, okay.
Speaker 2:Like I was lost and see, there's mine too. You got mine All right. Next, self-diagnosed uh, emotional regulation difficulties. Trauma can cause significant emotional dysregulation, including irritability, anxiety and mood swings, which can also be seen in adhd. But so they, they're parallel I will say so.
Speaker 1:I think that, like when it comes to my adhd, I feel more of like the mood swings, but like when my mom died, I didn't cry ever, like I stopped like my ability to cry as a person like shut the fuck down. It was weird because I didn't feel like I was that connected to it, because, right right, it's not on the surface.
Speaker 2:Bury it up.
Speaker 1:I don't know why it's having such an impact on me, but I literally didn't cry from before my mom passed until my third ketamine treatment was the first time I was able to cry. So that was from like October to July or no, to June. Yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 2:It's a long, long time I haven't cried in a long, long, long.
Speaker 1:I feel like so but I feel like that's your. For you that's also trauma. So I think to me that's the difference is like adhd makes it fluctuate and then I feel like trauma shuts it down.
Speaker 2:But that's my personal experience but that's also your personal experience um, yeah, and I also feel like the trauma that I experienced, like as a child and throughout the teenage years and through the death of I just I shut, I've just so from a young. From a young age, I was taught not to cry and also, like you just don't, or you get like yelled at and like screamed it feels not safe exactly and so also I just kept quiet and took care of myself.
Speaker 1:So, no matter what you just like, deal with it, because there's what is crying going to do and what's the other option.
Speaker 2:There's no other choice. No, you just like shove it down, yeah, and you just don't think about it and you just move forward.
Speaker 1:And I think that's why, like my fight, flight, freeze response. I freeze because, like I don't, it doesn't feel safe to show that emotion at all, so I'm like I'm not gonna you know what emotion I do show, you know what emotion I like to show anger.
Speaker 2:Yes, I do you bitch that's like the only one that ever comes out. I know your fight is definitely fucking fight I have to say before million percent fight like before, like definitely now. It's not that I don't feel like I definitely control things, but like anger is my default, yeah, but yeah, when after luke passed oh fuck I would. I think I'd be like I was angry yeah, well, yeah, it's fair to be angry and I like cut people out, burn that fucking bridge lit them on fire.
Speaker 1:I'm not gonna lie, that was a very interesting time but everybody who deserved it.
Speaker 2:I just maybe blew it a lot of out of proportion, maybe not, I don't know. Some people deserved everything. I think you were just like harsh about it but it was like, I was like yeah, you didn't give a flying fuck no, and I think that like I needed to do that, to stop wasting time on people that were like using me or I feel that I very much feel like I have narrowed, like as I've gotten older, I talk to less people.
Speaker 2:Yes, it was funny. I was just talking to ashley and felina like they are like the only friends that have been with me through everything, like a lot of people say that they know me but no one really knows me and ashley's like, yeah, if they fuck out of me?
Speaker 1:well, no, they're not talking about you. It was like a handful of people that I actually had no idea who they were yeah, I actually, if I get really pissed off when um people try to talk to me like they know you I, it really makes me mad because I'm like you fucking don't. You absolutely. I don't even know your fucking name, so there is no way that you know my girl the way that I know my girl so you can shut your fucking mouth right now, like you may know what's on social media right that you don't know her.
Speaker 1:Shut up, shut up. Stop telling people your friends you aren't. Stop, did you? I even posted that thing.
Speaker 2:I was like I hate to think that my best friend had a best friend before me, I know it pisses me off, like when you ever say you're like with your friends, I'm like, or you'd post pictures, I'm like, whatever it's, because I wasn't available, you're only there because I'm not available.
Speaker 1:You're only there because I'm not available as soon as they don't act like I didn't know I didn't finish the ci exactly um the just because I wasn't available.
Speaker 2:Otherwise we are going to chase rice together.
Speaker 1:Which I'm really proud of us. I have no idea who this fucking person is. I only bought tickets because we have tried to go to concerts together so many times and it never works out. Either you end up getting back together with someone you shouldn't and then go with them, or concerts got cancelled.
Speaker 2:Johnny Bravo never stands a chance, ever again. So that will never happen.
Speaker 1:I know that makes me really happy. I'm very, very, very, very. But so I know I'm just really excited because then we're actually gonna go.
Speaker 2:I literally have no idea who this person is.
Speaker 1:I know it's country. I know that much um. I didn't even know what his name was when I bought the ticket I know I was like here. You just jumped in, that's fine just sent me a link and you're like buy this and I was like on it I gotta plan an outfit do I, I don't no you, I will not dress you, you can wear whatever you want.
Speaker 2:Um, okay, so next thing that both present in is sleep disturbances, and this is still a huge thing. This is one reason that I think I started drinking. So much is like after luke. The trauma of it.
Speaker 2:Going to bed was the worst for me yeah, because your brain, yes, it would not shut off yes, and that was when the intrusive thoughts and all the things and the spirals and it's quiet and normally I had my person with me and it's like that, when it was quiet the kids were asleep, like that was when it was the fucking worst yeah and I would not sleep I pretty much the majority of my life.
Speaker 1:Up until about six months ago, I had to fall asleep with the television on I still do and it had to be something that I had already seen, because I, if it's something new, I'm going to try to pay attention to it and I'm obviously I need to sleep or whatever, but I could not, for any reason, fall asleep in silence because my brain it's the worst, at least during the day. You're trying to actively do activities, so you, like, are trying to find something to focus your thought on. Like I'm focusing my thought on you, I'm focusing on the fact that we're doing the podcast you know what I mean. Like, but when you're just laying there, you don't have a specific thing to focus on, so your brain goes fucking everywhere and it's like the worst moments of your life. Do you want to see a fucking photo reel of the worst moments of your life?
Speaker 2:I have that readily available for you all the worst moments of your life. I have that readily available for you and I'm gonna highlight all the worst ones.
Speaker 1:Oh, and that one is gonna remind you of something else and then we're gonna, we're gonna subjugate over here to a new reel.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes and then your heart is racing. It's just awful.
Speaker 1:Yes, that happens, um yeah so is that the drama, or is that the adhd? Or does it matter? On what your brain is focusing on both how, how, I don't see they both can.
Speaker 2:It's interesting, yeah, so those are those, uh, executive. Well, that's probably why people don't? Get diagnosed. That's okay. That's the main thing. So it does talk about that. So the key difference is to consider trauma triggers. Trauma related symptoms are often tied to specific triggers or reminders of a traumatic event, while adhd symptoms are generally more pervasive which they just happen whenever yes yeah, and then intrusive thoughts and flashbacks, intrusive thoughts, memories or flashbacks and truth of thoughts.
Speaker 2:Memories or flashbacks are characteristics of ptsd and trauma, but not of adhd okay, because I I have nightmares, essentially okay but that caught that. It's both of them for nightmares nightmares is under both of them. But if they're tied to specific events, not just random, then it's more.
Speaker 2:But we think mine's more tied to specific people. Ok, and you want to hear something really funny? I don't dream at all, ever, ever anymore, and I have not since like Luke died, and I have not had dreams like here. They're random, like fucking crazy, bizarre ones, like random here, there, maybe twice Total. Yes, that's crazy, and I don't know if it's my, I don't know if my traumatized brain is not letting me get into a state because I'm afraid could be because I'm so like it could be a trauma.
Speaker 2:I was not even that's what I'm like. I want to dive more into that, but yeah, I don't dream anymore so I will have dreams around specific people, but I have sleep. I have rest, like my. I don't get to a state yeah, yeah, my sleep sucks.
Speaker 1:Um, mine are mainly about, uh, fat roger, but it's always in an environment that never really happened. It's a weird thing and it's usually like it. It's mean to me. It's like me, um him like chasing after me in the beginning of it and me not being interested, and then somehow like him wearing me down and then like me being like, okay, whatever, I'll talk to you, and then he's no longer interested and now I'm chasing after him. But the environment's always different, but it's like the same common theme and it's just like fucking rude, rude.
Speaker 2:It's rude, that was rude, that was really fucking rude also makes me think that a lot of my I mean I have cptsd from childhood, obviously, um, and I would escape watching movies and reading books, and I used to have such a vivid imagination and I always fell asleep with the tv on, partly because my dad would be drunk and then would blare his music downstairs as loud as possible, but god forbid you touch it as he's passed out or he would wake up and scream right so, or I would drown out the yelling and screaming because I would have to then feel like it was my, my job to monitor that my mom was not like yeah, I got it, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Like it was my job to monitor that my mom was not like yeah, I got it, you know what I mean? Like it was just so, I think, the TV always being on. I've never came out of that. I always have. I always fall asleep and it's so easy for me to fall asleep. I can also fall asleep within like any noise, like and I'm good, yeah, it takes me hours.
Speaker 1:Like, and it's weird because it's like I'm sure maybe if I just laid down and like tried, that maybe it wouldn't take as long. But like there's something in me that tells me that I'm not allowed to sleep until I have reached a level of an of exhaustion that I physically am able to.
Speaker 2:You know what I hear. It's something funny. Were you reading my fucking mind? I was just going to say no, I was not going to interrupt you. I was trying so hard not to um, I can only sleep now without and I still take, like over-the-counter sleeping meds sometimes. Um, but if I don't physically exhaust myself, if I don't get a hard lift in and I don't get my cardio in, things are not right, like my day is fucked if I don't get up and do cardio mentally clearing. I need that space, that alone time, that decompression to mentally check out, where I'm just like watching some bullshit show and getting my heart rate up and just feeling that coursing through me and then lifting. I have to be able to pour out and just be fucking exhausted to accomplish sleep or it's not there and people are like napping.
Speaker 2:I don't nap. It's like I'm up and I'm hypervigilant and then I'm out. Yeah, yeah, and I hope that like ceases one day, but maybe not. It's a lot better than it used to be and I don't have to take like medication. There was a point where they would prescribe me so many xanax and that would be the only way I would make it through the day with alcohol.
Speaker 1:Surprise, I'm not dead I still have um zolpidem sometimes to help me sleep, because it is way better now, but when I was a teenager specifically, I would go days without sleeping, like I just sleeping and I don't know why. So this is the hard part about trauma is lack of memory. I don't remember much of my childhood, but I have things that I do that are weird and I don't know why I do them. But when you talk to other people like they're like that sounds like it's a trauma response, but I don't know what trauma it's in response to. So that's, you know, makes life difficult.
Speaker 1:But like sleep doesn't feel like a safe place for me and I don't know why. But so like I literally try to avoid sleep at all costs, even though I need it so desperately and I want it so desperately. I'm like god, I just want to go to bed, I'm so tired, I'm so fucking tired. But literally I will stay up until the point where I'm almost I pass out. I don't even like fall asleep, I pass out because I'm my body is so exhausted, it physically can't keep my eyes open anymore and I will still stay on my phone and like, fight it and fight it and fight it, because sleep doesn't feel safe to me.
Speaker 1:We're going to explore that, so let's unpack that.
Speaker 2:So we're going to explore that.
Speaker 1:But I'm just like I wonder I love sleep too, but I will.
Speaker 2:if I even feel like I'm going to have a night of thought loops or things like that, I just medicate with over the counter and that does the trick.
Speaker 1:So I probably rely too heavily on that, but you know what it works for me and I get my sleep.
Speaker 2:So I mean, you know what there's also, it's called thc.
Speaker 1:We're like not touching on the one important thing here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it does it does, it really does, so get you a good Indica.
Speaker 1:I only partake in this sativus.
Speaker 2:That could be on a problem too.
Speaker 1:But I feel like it still makes me tired. I can still sleep on it when I allow myself to sleep.
Speaker 2:I feel like when I was educated Allison, she educated me on the different types of strains and the different things that would work for my PTSD and my anxiety.
Speaker 1:I'll send you over the info. It helped a lot more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they don't ever really talk to me about, because in idaho, right they can't they acknowledge that I do it? All of my doctors are fully aware because they're not going to educate you the way I was.
Speaker 1:They can't, no, because they can't be a proponent for it because, yeah, but they are all very aware and none of them told me to stop.
Speaker 2:Yeah no, the aims institute over in seattle was very. They changed a lot for me and she also educated me on the um psilocybin trips. We kind of talked about the macro dosing before.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because that's actually it's interesting because they're starting to look for more natural treatments for things.
Speaker 2:Yes, like depression she's people that have not followed up with me. Alice and drayson is my ptsd specialist out of the ames institute. She is the one that I did the ketamine journeys in the office with where I did intermuscular, where she sat with me, played a playlist um different things like that. She had her dog there with me so like I could have a little her little what natural remedies are there for adhd?
Speaker 1:because there's got to be right, there has to be. I'm gonna look that up well, you keep um.
Speaker 2:So then, after I did my three journeys with her, we she's one that prescribes the at-home trochees, and then she also I meet with her after I do intermuscular or not intermuscular um, the iv infusion. So we still have our sessions. But then she also discussed with how I could alleviate the anxiety symptoms with marijuana, um certain kinds of th, and then she helped me find the least pesticides and the certain strains.
Speaker 1:Well, and that's important because I feel like anxiety can also aggravate ADHD, so bad.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, and it causes itself again the chicken or the egg, which one came first?
Speaker 1:They all exasperate each other. It's such an interesting concept to be like. Well, and that goes back to why things can be misdiagnosed is because that's one of the struggles that I have. Right, I keep getting put every time I go to a new doctor and I've tried and failed the medications 80 million times. They don't care, they always put me back.
Speaker 2:I always get put on antidepressants first before they will address my pain, because they are determined to believe that I'm just so depressed at life that it is manifesting itself as physical pain in my body and it boggles my mind how they they start there every single time well, I feel like now, with the whole pain pill crisis and all the stuff like that, they are so far removed to look at your pain as actual pain anymore that they do everything else like people that have legit, actual pain, are no longer being treated and their quality of life is going down because people, because they were so quick to prescribe it before yes, that it became such an issue yeah, that's fair.
Speaker 1:I have not once been prescribed. I actually do, though, have a note on my file that I am requesting to not have opioids, because I know that I have an addictive personality. You know, I'm alcoholic already. I don't want to actively put myself in a position to potentially get addicted to something like pain pills, so I do have it on my file to like. I don't want to do that, but also it's frustrating to be like what if that's the only option?
Speaker 2:like I think you still need to read the body keeps the score. You need to.
Speaker 1:I always, I can't remember, I'm going to send you the link right now. I can't remember anything, so the key difference is.
Speaker 2:So we did the intrusive thoughts and flashbacks, hyper vigilance, it or constantly being on guard, which I experience all the time, just for no reason. I'll tell you that too. I'm like I just am stuck in fight or flight and I can't get out. It's like the fucking worst. Um, the last, the last ivy ketamine, though, really helped for me. Um, so that one is common of ptsd and trauma, but not associated with adhd. The other one which is huge for me is avoidance behaviors. We just fucking talked about this. I am so bad and that one is of PTSD, not ADHD. So the avoidance behavior that makes sense Is very much PTSD. Fight or flight I'm really good at it.
Speaker 1:I've been in it my whole life, just now finally coming out of it, and let me tell you, it's uncomfortable to be not in fight or flight yeah, for me it's hard because, like, like I said, mine is freeze and so I just like I don't participate in what's happening, but I don't stop it, I just let it happen, like I just sit there and whatever happens happens, type of thing, and so, like for me to like force myself out of that, I have to participate in my own shit, and that's really fucking difficult for me to like force myself out of that.
Speaker 1:I have to participate in my own shit, and that's really fucking difficult for me to do like in the moment when I feel a feeling it sounds so stupid to say this out loud, but, like my therapist is like when you feel a feeling, you, I need you to just stop for like 30 seconds and just let yourself feel it and I was like how do I do that?
Speaker 2:I know, I was also gonna say how do you know, how do you do that, how do you?
Speaker 1:just feel a feeling I don't fucking understand.
Speaker 2:I don't even know I've gone 39 years avoiding every feeling. You, all of a sudden, are really out of tune with how you feel I don't know how to feel it like I don't even understand the feelings chart I'm only used to a pain chart like that is what I.
Speaker 1:That is my point of reference. I don't know what a fucking feelings chart like I'm saying would.
Speaker 1:We need one because I could yeah maybe, but then, but that's the whole thing, right? So the whole thing with women was I was trying to feel my feelings in the moment, and then I got yelled out for feeling my feelings. So then it's like but yeah, so then that. But so then you have something that like reinforces your negative thought about something. And then now, like you live there, you're like I have evidence, I, I did the thing and look what happened so looking up like the non-medication remedies yeah I have some stuff up here.
Speaker 1:It's like cognitive therapy, relaxation, training, shit that you can't do when you have adhd I like job coaching or monitoring, family education and therapy.
Speaker 1:So yeah, this is just keeping an agenda writing everything down, literally things that I want to do and I'm not capable of doing. I can't even keep a journal for, like any, I'm supposed to be keeping a pain journal can't do that. I'm supposed to also just be like writing down every day like a small snippet about my day Can't do that, haven't done it Not one fucking time. I've been in therapy for over a year. I haven't done it one fucking time Like the things that they think people with ADHD can do, naturally. That's the whole reason. That's the whole thing. We can't. Oh, my god, and lots of water, I can do that.
Speaker 2:yeah, strict, consistent sleep schedule, if I could do that.
Speaker 1:I would already be fucking doing that, like it's just so funny. Uh, one thing it said on here, though that is actually really helpful is exercise, so it says high intensity exercise.
Speaker 2:So yeah, at least you do that.
Speaker 1:Do you feel like it helps with your brain clarity? You were saying that like you were clearing your brain fog. It's foggy as fuck in here. It's like sleepy goddamn hollow in my brain. It's so foggy.
Speaker 2:I also consume lots of caffeine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't, which is a stimul stimulant, but I don't feel like caffeine. I don't feel anything when I drink caffeine. It doesn't do anything for me that's a sign of adhd.
Speaker 2:My dear, that's what the stimulants do. They even you out.
Speaker 2:I literally will drink an energy drink before bed, because I have a really funny story, and I will not name the friend who told me this, but she has a stepchild. Said stepchild was wild and crazy and she calls me and she's like Heather, how do I get him to drink coffee? And I'm like, what do you mean? And she's like you know, like the bad kids, how they take them downstairs and give them coffee at school to calm them down. And I'm like, no, but I know what you mean, like adhd, like what school did you go to, by the way?
Speaker 1:but yeah, who right like.
Speaker 2:That did not happen at my school I'm like we definitely put lots of sugar in it, but lots of sugar like give them a mountain dew but yes, that's a thing.
Speaker 1:Mountain dew is gross. Don't drink it. Has brominated vegetable oil in it. Anyway, go on. I was just, you know.
Speaker 2:I know, point of reference. Point of reference.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no it does nothing for me Like caffeine never has.
Speaker 1:I can drink coffee and go to bed. I can drink energy drink, go to bed, if I can go to bed. But like you know what I mean always fucking just crazy. I feel like it's normal right now. Let me check. It's because you're around me. It's only 98 right now because you're around me. That's like my resting heart rate because you're around me. Oh, that's so funny. But yeah, my heart rate does randomly like fucking spike for no reason. It's insane if I have, if I am anxious or irritable. My fitbit thinks that I worked out. I know mine because my heart rate goes so high so fast.
Speaker 2:I took mine off this morning and I've yet to put it back on. That's the first time in like ever I've done that weird um.
Speaker 1:Do you feel naked?
Speaker 2:yes, and I keep looking at it and it's not there. Um, my whoop tracks everything, so I do that every time.
Speaker 1:I don't know why it's that thing. It's just like when you hear what, what, and your brain goes in the butt.
Speaker 2:I said what, what you know like, yeah, it's the same.
Speaker 1:Anytime you say whoop, I'm always gonna go. Whoop, whoop, I can't. It's like an uncontrolled response I can't make myself not do it.
Speaker 2:I love it. Um, that's how my brain works. So, basically, you let us know. Is it adhd or trauma which came first it's insane, I feel like it's.
Speaker 1:It's basically that's the question 95 if it presents the same like 95, like how do you know? Because the key difference is basically no, I know, but I mean like triggers. Trigger is a provider triggers.
Speaker 2:Triggers is a huge one. That's basically what it's coming down to. Is it just something that's always there, or is it brought on by a certain event? Smell, place, thing, person, blah, blah, blah and people like need to.
Speaker 1:You can have both, which is also very valid. So many people say that like they have triggers or things are triggering. I'm like, I think people need to like sit down and really like like not everything's a trigger, if you, if everything is a trigger, that's not what. It is something.
Speaker 2:It's something different well, it can be, but then you need to work on yourself. If every single thing triggers you, maybe you know, that's what I'm saying. It's something different I think people like to say that, because if you speak, okay, if you say oh, you're triggering me. It instantly puts you like on the defense like, oh, I'm sorry yeah, you're trying to.
Speaker 1:You need to like you're trying to manipulate somebody else's behavior by calling everything a trigger. That's not what we're talking about.
Speaker 2:That's not the same thing.
Speaker 1:But if it's something, you smell something or you hear something, a word, a phrase, a sound like, sometimes if you have trauma.
Speaker 2:You know you have trauma, even if you don't want to admit it, like even if you haven't done anything about it.
Speaker 1:It's there. You know it's there.
Speaker 2:You can't bury it if you really sit and look at like the different patterns, you'll be able to pick them out. They'll be there and we're here for you.
Speaker 1:I bet you that I'm going to hyper focus on this now and every time I have like a moment.
Speaker 2:I'm going to like sit and think about it and be like where is this coming from? Yes.
Speaker 1:Cause.
Speaker 2:That's how like you dig it up?
Speaker 1:I do think that's good, that good I.
Speaker 2:that's how you fix shit and you grow and you progress yes, because if you don't know or you're not acknowledging, you can't change it. And then that way, when the, the behavior or the pattern comes up, you're like oh, I keep feeling like this, and every time it's because of this.
Speaker 2:That's why I like therapy every time and then you can start changing so how you react to it. When you know, like, say, situation a happens, you're like I know this is going to happen and this is how I always feel. You can either change it or, like you can alter your reaction based on the outcome like however, you need to, but self-awareness, and not only self-awareness, but then having the ability to change your behaviors and alter them for what's best for you, not necessarily what's most comfortable for yourself. The self-awareness.
Speaker 1:Listen that's easy the self-awareness is the easy we would win awards for that and I'm very self-aware.
Speaker 2:We can call ourselves up like, but I am not self-awareness capable, like I'm watching myself make the bad choice. I know it's the bad choice, I can explain like when I called you this morning and I said joy. When I called you this morning and I was like listen, so this is what I did and you're like heather, heather we both know but, but I speak real to you, so and I called you because I knew I had to get it out. It is what it is, but I'm still gonna be like.
Speaker 1:I saw a thing that said I needed this cracked me up because I saw a meme that said me and my best friend have played and we listen and we don't judge. Since the day we met and I thought about it and I was like we we listen, but we fucking judge. I was like that's what makes our friendship so strong. It's not that we don't judge each other, it's that we do judge each other and we'll still love each other through it.
Speaker 1:I feel like that's what makes it. If I didn't judge you on anything that you ever have done and you didn't judge me on anything that I've ever done, how are we making each?
Speaker 2:other better. It's not really judging. It's like holding accountable right but also holding a safe place to be. Like you can tell me anything.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna let you know regardless. But yeah, maybe that's a little maybe that's a little fucked up. It might be I think that's how you develop growth in relationships and friendships. It's like you are going to be a better person, because I judge you and I'm gonna be a better person because you judge me, because we do it from love and not hate yes, yeah, exactly but it did make me laugh. I was like that friendship's not gonna last no fucking judge your friends, guys.
Speaker 2:It's important it is constructive criticism all right, we're done for the day. Sweet, all right, let's go get our cards read. I'm so excited. Yes, next episode, janessa is going to live.
Speaker 1:Well, not live, but life.
Speaker 2:Yes yes, life for me. Read our cards. Yeah, it'll be great. All right till next time, besties.