Standards Or Control

The fastest way to start a relationship fight is to call a demand a “boundary” and hope nobody notices. We go straight at the question most couples dance around: where’s the real line between having standards and being high maintenance, and when does a “healthy boundary” slide into control?

We break down the difference in plain language: boundaries are about what we will tolerate and what we will do next, not rules we enforce on another adult. From there, we get into the modern stuff that makes this so confusing: social media boundaries, following exes, Snapchat “secret conversations,” liking other people’s photos, and what it means when a partner won’t post you. We also talk about why feeling hidden can trigger real insecurity, especially if you’ve lived through emotional abuse, cheating, or being treated like someone’s secret.

Then we move into the gray areas: location sharing for safety versus tracking for reassurance, password access versus phone searches, and how “therapy speak” can be weaponized to justify toxic behavior. Finally, we play High Maintenance Or Healthy Boundaries and argue through daily communication, splitting bills, opposite-sex best friends, and more, with plenty of “it depends” and a few hard no’s.

If you’ve been wondering whether you’re asking for respect or asking for control, this one will hit. Subscribe, share with a friend who needs it, and leave a review. What’s one boundary you refuse to compromise on?

-

Transcript

ERR

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Two we are not the same. I am Lacey. My name's Heather. Hi. Hey. Long time no talk. Um, we did just break for like a little five minutes with a little five-minute intermission and a little new beverage, and now because we are beverage goblins. Today we're talking about where the line actually is between having standards and being high maintenance. So is asking your partner to unfollow their ex and healthy boundary, or is it being controlling? Those are questions we will ponder. We will get around to them. Don't look at me like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Well, I was like, am I supposed to answer? Is this your blurp?

SPEAKER_01 1:13

That's our yes, no, that's our lead-in. So that's what we're getting into. Yes. Um if you listened to us last week, you know our catch up because nothing new has really happened in the last minutes since we an hour and five minutes, yes. So yep. Same thing. Same thing. Same thing. Maybe we shouldn't have gardened that five minutes in between. That was awkward. Like I am. Okay, anyways, we're going straight in today. So, where is the line between boundaries and controlling behavior? Um, what is a boundary? Setting something you set for yourself, um, and about what you'll tolerate.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

So I'm not great at boundaries. You are not. I'm actively working on it in therapy.

SPEAKER_01 2:02

It's one of my goals are um example of a healthy boundary that neither one of us have set in the past. Um I won't stay in a relationship where someone disrespects me. I okay Raise your hand if you've stayed after someone's disrespected you. Ugh. All the hell. This is like in the past, though.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Yeah, because if we think about like I broke up with lemon because I don't know if it's necessarily disrespecting, but like if it's the moment, no, it was because he pointed out and said, You are the problem. And I was instantly, I was like, Nope, done. Boom. And that's that was a huge step for me.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

And taking the mushrooms recreationally, those weren't even recreational mushrooms, those are daily mushrooms. I've never known anybody.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

Yeah, no, but it still took me a week and a half.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

No, that means because he could not raw dog life, that's a problem. Red flag. Yes. Yes, if you have to take psychedelic mushrooms to get through the day.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

Well, and it it's hard, I think, uh in the current atmosphere, because like it's been made like socially acceptable to disrespect people.

SPEAKER_01 3:13

You know what I mean? I think there's different levels. I also think that there is like manipulation and certain things that come into play. Again, just like our last episode, we have varying opinions. We cover and experiences, and we're gonna just like at the end have a nice little like this is what you should do. I don't know. Like, ooh, no, even if no, not on us. Like, we'll share our experience.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

We say not as we do.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

But like what the research says that you should go do. We're just gonna then share our varying opinions, and then we'll tell you what like mental like the experts say, mental health therapists. We are not.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

No, no, we are the things. We are the patients.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

We are the patients.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

Lifers.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

Why did someone give us a podcast?

SPEAKER_00 4:05

We did. We gave it to everyone.

SPEAKER_01 4:07

Why do people listen to us? We love you. Keep listening.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

Thank you for doing that.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

Yes, it's been growing exponentially, and we love you for it. Um, yes.

SPEAKER_00 4:17

Yeah, it's it's hard because is the disrespect. See, this is this is the problem is I will I will question it. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

And we will get back around to that. So that was like, what is a boundary? Something you set for yourself, and then what is controlling behavior? So trying to dictate someone else's behavior. So we're gonna like go back and forth between the two. So like it can't be used against you, yeah. Well, and that's the thing.

SPEAKER_00 4:39

So there's a boundary and controlling a boundary is controlling what you will accept or what you will do, versus controlling is trying to force your boundary onto another person. I think that's fair. Yes, you know what I mean? Like, perfect example, like you can't tell another person what they can and cannot do. You can just say what I will or will not accept.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

Right. Like in our example, not talking to your ex. Like someone saying you're not allowed to, that's not like communicated effectively. There's like another root issue, which we'll go back to. So we're just trying to like, you know, yeah, like differentiate between the two. Okay, like things like sharing our locations now, um, posting your partner, following exes, password access, things like that. Um, and these can be respect issues or insecurity issues and be seen either way. I think it's just how you use it. So let's talk about like why it's confusing, the different topics like social media boundaries. We were just talking about like following. Um, how what is your stance on following exes? And does it it depends on like I guess the o he's dead. It depends he's dead. Stop.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

So it depends on what that relationship meant. Right.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

I think because I was like the one person I will never unfollow. I'm like, oh he's dead. I feel like I'm in this in in a weird little niche over here because like widowed. It's just different.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

But that's not your only ex, though.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

No, but that was like the long stand, you know what I mean? Like that is out of the way. There is no jealousy to be had over a dead guy.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

I don't think that's necessarily true. I think I think it's an unhealthy jealousy to have over a gay guy, but I guess you could but sometimes people can get jealous of the way that you memorialize somebody else, you know what I mean? Because then they think that you are trying to hold them to like an unrealist unrealistic expectation, but it's not because you really had it, and it's really it's just their insecurity of not being able to live up to being the person that they should be. But I do think that that in turn makes them feel a jealousy of the way that you look at that person, you know what I mean? Yeah, so not saying that that's a healthy thing to do.

SPEAKER_01 7:13

No, but I see that that's like that person needs to do some inner work, correct?

SPEAKER_00 7:17

Because you're not in competition with a dead guy. Yes, no, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 7:22

Um, okay, so are you friends with any of your exes? Yes. Ones that you liked. You you see you've dated people and then like ended amicably, though.

SPEAKER_00 7:31

Yeah, so like I'm still friends with one of my high school boyfriends. In fact, he just added me on Snapchat last week and started sending me photos. Oh my gosh, you have Snapchat. That's weird. I did I don't actively like use it really.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

I mean I have it, but Lily takes it. Yeah, I don't actively use it. It's because our memories are still.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

I use it to send ugly photos of myself to my sister.

SPEAKER_01 7:51

I can see that. I can see this. Lily takes her pictures of her as a man.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

Yeah, I've seen that.

SPEAKER_01 7:58

Then leans them on my phone.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

Yeah, I've seen that. No, but like, so I think there's a lot of factors that go into it. Like the people that I am friends with still, like on a social media aspect, we're not long-term partners. I am not actively friends with any long-term partner.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

Yeah, I think that's just a difference.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

It's like these are the people who didn't make it on my permanent record anyway, because they didn't last 90 days. So like I don't feel like like they're obviously not a threat because I am the most forgiving person ever. And if you can't last 90 days with me, like you know what I mean, you are not a threat to anybody new.

SPEAKER_01 8:31

And maybe while I'm why I'm just like not a jealous person, anyways, really like that. Like, if that person could take, you know, like to be, I guess I don't set a lot of boundaries and things like that. Um, or like you can't do XYZ, because like if it's that easy to like get you to sway like that person or whoever can just have you, like I feel like that's just getting it out of my way.

SPEAKER_00 8:52

Um well I've never been like, oh, you can't follow you what you can and cannot do. You like if you're committed into a relationship with me, you should just do the things that you think that you should do. Yes, I do think social media blurs things nowadays, not like especially apps like Snapchat, because that's almost like you can have a secret conversation on that app, and that's a dangerous thing. So I think I think what you are friends with them on can play a part in it. Like, is it Facebook? Is it Instagram? Is it Snapchat? You know what I mean? Like what level? Because people use different systems for different things. Let's be real. Um, I also think like what level your relationship with them was. Were you like in this fully intertwined, fully committed relationship? Because that's gonna, I'm gonna be way more sensitive to you being friends with that person than I'm going to be if, oh, I went on a couple of dates with this person. You know what I mean? Like, I think that matters. If you were had a fully engulfed relationship with another person, it would bother me if you were still actively friends with them on social media. It would bother me. Because I've already I've removed them before I even met you. You know what I mean? Like the soon as soon as I ended that relationship, that was done. I removed that per not only did I remove that person, I removed that in person's entire family and any friends that I met through specifically only you that I don't think I would have had a sustained relationship with outside of you. Like I fucking I wipe it.

SPEAKER_01 10:27

We both know um my cutoff game, how like once I'm done, it's you're gone.

SPEAKER_00 10:32

You don't exist.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

I've actually forgotten people's full fucking names.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

I do that all the time. I'm really, especially horse teeth. I have the hardest time remembering it.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

I don't know his name. I just know horse teeth.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

But yeah, like that's how gone you are, though. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 10:48

So, like But no for you.

SPEAKER_00 10:49

I'm like, I don't even have to do it for you. I'm gonna do that for me anyway. So, like, it's already weird to me that you haven't chosen that for yourself. I feel like that might be a red flag.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

I think that's probably the biggest one on this list. So if we are gonna go down the list, we'll talk about are they respect issues or insecurity, in your opinion? Social media boundaries.

SPEAKER_00 11:11

I think that's a respect thing. Like it goes back to we've talked about this before. Like, I need to know and feel like I'm your number one priority when it comes to the females in your life. And so, like, it's a respect thing. If you're going around and you're liking other girls' photos and things like that, and you're not actively portraying me, like that's a red flag to me because I'm all like now I'm now I don't know where I stand because I don't feel special or I don't feel like it's equal or even less than, right? Because why are you actively liking that girl's stuff but not mine or not posting about me or whatever, you know what I mean? So yeah, it's a respect thing to these questions. I would 100% agree with you on that.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

No, I think it yeah, definitely could if you yes, depending on the behavior. There's no more milk. The 30 ounces of milk.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

Oh switching to my monster.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

They missed it. If they didn't join last week, they do not realize. We don't need to go into it. I drank a lot of milk. She drinks 30 ounces of milk and not shame you. I'm just impressed.

SPEAKER_02 12:20

Thoroughly delicious.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

Um, sharing locations. Okay, I like this because I don't have anything to hide, and I just like the fact that you know where I'm at. It makes it easier.

SPEAKER_00 12:32

I I don't see any reason why you shouldn't share your location.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

And yeah, like it's like, sorry, I get coffee a lot. It's gonna be weird. It's gonna be weird to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

I mean, sometimes it's easier to just be like, let me see where they are instead of asking them where are you?

SPEAKER_01 12:48

I know that's how I think of it.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

As and that's like especially because like if you're someplace where I know you're busy, I know not to message you.

SPEAKER_01 12:55

Yeah. I just it's less like another layer of like intimacy. Like, I want you to know where I'm at at all times. That sounds weird. I want you to know where I'm at.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

Well, and it's also helpful. Like, I have my kids' locations. They have my location, I have your location, you have my location. Like, if I break down on the side of the road and I don't know where the fuck I am, if she goes missing, I will find her. No, it's more of a safety thing at this point. I am actively single, so yeah, you need to know where my location is.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

Yes, I do because you never know where you'll and like why are you at hand prints? You don't know where he lives. Figure it out. Figure it out. I'm like, you're not at one.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

I told you I was invited over and I said no. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

But I would be like, you're not at home and you're not out getting food, and you're not at a weird random venue where there's an event. So whose house is and it's at night. You always go at night. You never do like a during the day trip. It's like a nighttime, like you're so obvious.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

You could figure it out.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

You're so obvious.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

I didn't go. I know. No, I'm just kidding. But in a relationship, I d I've I guess I don't know what the argument would be to not share your location, just that it's not necessary. I've never had anyone ask. I've just been like, hey. I've never been in a relationship where that's even been a topic of conversation. Like if they were brought it up, I'd be like, Yeah, but I don't even think I would think to bring it up.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

I yeah, I I just started and then we both do. So it just makes it easier, makes life easier. Yep. But yeah, because then it's like, oh, you're here. Or also like if you're coming, like if I know you're on the way, like and see where you're like, but I I guess I can see where it could be used inappropriately, though.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:40

Well, and it depends your motives behind it. Yeah. Yeah. Like it was different. Like I shared mine because I was like, and then it just like I didn't ask for reciprocation, but then it was. Um, but it was just like, and that was a long time ago.

SPEAKER_00 14:53

But it was like just because But when there are people who are using it to track you down and be like why like messaging you or calling you and being like, why are you here? You shouldn't be there. That's very different. So it can I think it's innocent enough to start the sharing. It's just whether or not you use it appropriately or not, is when it becomes controlling.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

Definitely. Again, sometimes I'm like, yes, I'm getting coffee again if everybody sees me. Because like a lot of people have my location.

SPEAKER_00 15:18

I'm like, that's funny that a lot of people have your location. I am the extra stuff.

SPEAKER_01 15:23

You know who I forgot? Sydney has my location still the other day. It was on here. Bree has my location. I was like, oh, I never stopped sharing like four years ago when I let them have share indefinitely. Why not? That's all people. I'm like, sure. One more person to know. Sydney would be like, oh, I have her location if I ever went missing. And I'm never gonna go missing. It's fine. Fight my way out of that one. Okay, uh, posting your partner. I have been all over the board with this. Um, I don't think it's an insecurity, I don't think it's a boundary either. I don't think I'd ever be like, post me.

SPEAKER_00 15:54

No, in that way. I think that it's meaningful for me if my partner posts me because I want to feel claimed and I want, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 16:04

I 100% agree, but it would have to be on its own. Like I would only ever want it to come 100% like announced. Organically.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

Like I want you to want to post about me and not me asking you to post about me. Exactly. I think it becomes a concern when if you don't post about me at all, like if it if it feels like I'm hidden, then I get then it builds the insecurity part. But initially it's not an insecurity thing. It's just over time because you would think naturally, or more so if I go to like tag you in a photo and you either don't accept the tag or you remove the tag after the fact, then it becomes an insecurity thing. Where now I'm like, why are you trying to hide me? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

So that kind of like goes the like relationship statuses.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

Yeah, yeah. Like, do people know? It's and I'm allowed, like, the reason why I bring that up specifically is like I spent two and a half years with Fat Roger, where I was essentially a secret on his end. Like everybody in my life knew that I was with him, but he actively would tell me how embarrassed he was to be with me. And so he didn't want to share that with his side of the world. It turned out it was just because he wanted to continue to date every person that he spoke to.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

But you're the only one that didn't see that.

SPEAKER_00 17:30

I know because I didn't want to, but like that he was not attractive or anything.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

He was just really good at emotional abuse.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

Emotional damage.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

Are you singing about your life?

SPEAKER_00 17:48

That's a bit.

SPEAKER_01 17:49

Oh, I'm like, that was definitely the tizza, but it was not.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

You've never seen that.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

Nope.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

It's an Asian guy. It's fine. Just move on. There will be people who listen to this who know what that's from.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

Do they also drink 30 ounces of milk in one sitting? We're not how much milk do you go through? So much. Like, do you buy the Costco size?

SPEAKER_00 18:18

I mean, we always buy at least two gallons of milk.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

Do you boys drink milk too? Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

Yeah, we'll see.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

You're passing on the drinking of the milk.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

I know. I'm gonna have to apologize to any future wives they have because them drinking directly from the carton is a hundred percent my fault. I'm aware. You're the only person that I know and pass it down.

SPEAKER_01 18:36

You went straight into your sister's house. We were like thirsty. You go straight into.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

We were trick-or-treating, and we stopped at her house.

SPEAKER_01 18:44

And you went in for the biggest glass of milk that she had. You're like the biggest glass poor. You went, I didn't know what you were grabbing out of the fridge. I was like, I'm thinking water or soda we were drinking then, so maybe a beer. No. Nope. Straight up milk. And I think we drank later too, which is really gross. You're like, you know it was settled. What were we drinking now?

SPEAKER_00 19:08

Oh god, the worst night ever. There was okay, this is so off topic, but anyway, we were talking about milk. There was one time for my sister's birthday, we went to the bowling alley and they would only they only had a beer and wine license, so you couldn't get hard drinks. So we were drinking beer all night. And then when we got home, you drank milk. I fucking chugged the milk, and then you know what happened? If you take nothing from the podcast for 24 hours. And then we went to brunch the next day, and I threw up in their bathroom, in their parking lot. It was I literally threw up for 24 hours. It was awful. And you know what I learned from that? Don't drink beer.

SPEAKER_01 19:49

All right. Okay, we kind of already hit this one. Um, respect issues or insecurity following exes. I think it's respect. Um, only if they make it past the 90 days in certain circumstances. I just think it's like, well, I don't know. I just think that's just there's there's always the lines to be had. I just don't think open lines of communication with anyone who you you've had that intimate relationship with when you're in a relationship I don't know.

unknown 20:11

Why?

SPEAKER_00 20:13

Exactly. That's that's ultimately what it comes down to.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

Because why do you leave doors open? Right. That doesn't I am not a door lever opener. It's a weird way to word that. I know as it came out, I'm like, I don't do that. Like, I will close the door, like bolt deadbolt it shut, like then cement over it, like then color over it.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

Because I will there will be and the time where people from my past will all of a sudden message me and my dumbass will entertain it. And I don't know why it's like because I feel bad.

SPEAKER_01 20:51

Yeah, you're really bad. I'm like, because I will block and then you'll just never have access to me ever again. Yeah, you're much better at that than I am.

SPEAKER_00 20:59

I do that with the right people. Like, fat Roger cannot get a hold of me. There's no possible way he doesn't know where I live, he doesn't have he's blocking everyone. Don't don't do that to me because now I'm gonna fucking night. No, he would not. He would ask for presents. He would ask me, I would get a letter in the mail being like, Can I borrow money?

SPEAKER_01 21:20

Yeah. And you would give it. So I'm glad he had.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

He would not now.

SPEAKER_01 21:24

What if he like catfished you as somebody else?

SPEAKER_00 21:27

Stop. I worry about that sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 21:28

I worry about that for you on our next episode.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

And the only reason why I worry about that is because the one time that he did email me before I blocked his email, um he knew information that he shouldn't have known. It's because he talks to everybody and everybody knows you. Not everybody knows.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

Well, if there's a spy.

SPEAKER_00 21:47

There's people that think that they know there's moles.

SPEAKER_01 21:49

Yeah. Mole, mole, moles. There is that one too. I forgot about that one. Another one of your unfortunate dating histories.

SPEAKER_00 21:59

Which uh it's a per okay, I'm gonna throw myself under the bus because that's a perfect example of why you should not be friends with your exes on social media because he married Mole married the girl after me, and as far as I know, they are still married. But there have been they all get married after you leave. I know. I'm basically good luck, Chuck. I that's a whole episode on its own. But um him and I had tried to be social media friends a couple of times throughout the years after we had broken up. Like, I think there were two separate occasions where we tried to be Facebook friends and both. Times ended with him asking me for nudes. And I sent them. Why? Because I was young and stupid. You have to think this I I mean him split when I was 17 years old. So, like him reaching out years later, I'm still 1920. I'm deep in my alcoholism and going through all the crap with Carrie and feeling like a horrible human being.

SPEAKER_01 22:56

My trauma keeps me like really walled off from people, and yours makes you really like people pleasing.

SPEAKER_00 23:02

I know. Yeah. Yeah. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

Why is it different?

SPEAKER_00 23:05

I don't know, but I'd rather have your kind.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

No, because apparently I'm not very nice.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

No, not always. But still, it's better than being too fucking nice.

SPEAKER_01 23:14

Yeah, you're right. Because I would not want to find myself in these situations.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

So, like, we we We would not.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

We need you need more of me in your life. I know.

SPEAKER_00 23:21

We both like got to the realization, like, obviously, we can't just be friends. Like, that we just can't. And like it goes back to why why leave that door open? There's no reason to. We're so far removed, and yet we still went back there just from like the comfortability level of it. Just from like because you're familiar. Correct. And I didn't have I didn't have any feelings towards that person. And I feel bad. I was like, I made bad decisions because I was young and stupid and an alcoholic, and I regret those decisions. And like I wouldn't, I would not make that same decision now because I'm you know more aware of myself. Yes, thank you. Growth.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

We have a clap button, but I don't want to push all of them to get to there.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

But it's a good because we don't know which button it is.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

Should I try? No, don't I think I know which one it is. Don't do it. I'm pretty sure.

SPEAKER_00 24:08

Don't don't do it. I think I do. Nope.

unknown 24:09

No.

SPEAKER_00 24:10

I think I do. Stop. But I my point is like that's a good example that shows like there's no reason to leave that door open because it even if it starts innocently enough, it might go somewhere where you didn't intend it to go just from the familiarity of it. So yeah, I think it's important in that in those situations. When you have that level of a connection with somebody, you have to shut it down for also.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

Or you can't use your current partner. Trust your other side, you can trust your partner, but sometimes we've talked about some validation vultures, things like that. It's like the other person that you don't trust, and like why leave that door. Why give them the opportunity? Yes, to like even let your partner feel disrespected in any sort of way. Like that's I'm really big on that. Like, I'm fine. Like, I just don't want to I want to feel like yes, number one, like in the situation, like there should be no looking at it as an outsider. There should be no question that we are together. Like, that's that's it. Like, I there should just be a basic. I don't know why it's so hard. Because I guess you know what? If a man's gonna cheat, he's gonna cheat. It doesn't really matter. Yeah. So these are the red flags. Well, and that and that's the thing. Communication, we talked about this last time. It's always always coming down to the bottom. Okay, so we do need to finish this one before so we can go on to our next. Okay, so respect issues, following your exes, totally respect. Um, password access. I feel like that's ins okay, you can have my password. I'm totally fine. Like uh everybody knows that, but like if you're at this could go both ways. Like, I'm willing fine giving it, but if see, I've never had that because I've always just been really open with my butt roles were reversed. If I felt the need to be going through someone's phone, like it's already a problem, yes.

SPEAKER_00 26:05

Yeah, no, I I I get that. Um and I I don't care, people can go through my phone, you can go through my phone. I don't have anything to find.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

What about shifts or hiding things?

SPEAKER_00 26:16

So I was gonna say, so I've been on the other side of that, right? Because when me and prison Aaron Carter originally, like when I found out about the secret love child, I after I had my initial breakdown, and then I was like, Nope, that was five years ago. Am I allowed to be mad? We're in a better place now, we can make this work and all the things. And then I just had this inkling, and then I broke into his phone, and that's when ever that's what made everything fall apart. Not necessarily the secret love child, which I mean should have, should have. But it was me breaking into his phone and seeing him actively on dating sites. And he would go so far as he would change the spelling of his name on the dating site, so even if I did a search for him, I wouldn't find him. He would list his age as a different age so that I couldn't find him.

SPEAKER_01 26:58

So if I did my thing, question this has a this has me bringing something up. Okay. You have a conversation with someone, okay. They say they hear you. It's good, they're gonna change. What if you just notice they've gotten better at hiding?

SPEAKER_00 27:11

See, yeah. I I no, I get that because that's the thing. They like I mean I had caught him cheating on me in the past, and his his correction wasn't cheat better. Wasn't not cheating, it was cheat differently, cheat better, make it so it's harder for her to find out. It wasn't you just taught him, right? That's frustrating, but yeah, like he would he literally just spelled his name differently and put his age differently. Correct. He still lies about his age by 10 years now. He tells people he's ten years younger than he really is. That's gross. Yeah, it's false advertising by a lot. Yeah. So I I think I think demanding access to somebody else's phone, it it's past the point of a boundary.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

And that becomes a red fan. Like I think that's like you don't want control. That becomes controlling. So see, these can all go the other way too. They could also, it depends like motive intent and motive matter, and the way you communicate it. And is it like behind their back or right?

SPEAKER_00 28:16

Are you like being like, let me look at your phone while they're standing right there, or are you waiting until they're asleep or in the shower or whatever, and then going through their phone? Because that's very different too, you know.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

Okay, and on the controlling path, so like people using therapy language now. Oh my god, it's it's dangerous out there now justify controlling behavior and can be used to gaslight you. So things like boundaries that we talk about. So this like we're just kind of like and we just kind of touched on them, but learn like a fucking healthy boundary. If you are like us and did not learn these things growing up, learn what they are because they can be manipulated, manipulated and used, you know, against you.

SPEAKER_00 28:58

Yeah, one of the things that I've always said, I have a I now struggle with vulnerability because in my experience, people take my vulnerability, weaponize it, and use it against me, and then will use the the things that I've tried to heal about myself against me. Like, remember, we talked about um freaking the winky guy Johnny Bravo. He he I tried to break up with him and he convinced me that I was just because I was in a depressive episode. I still dated him for like two more weeks after that. Or when I was going through all the stuff with prison Aaron Carter, that's how Fat Roger got in. Was he there for me and he was comforting me and he was explaining to me all the different ways that Carrie was gaslighting me or manipulating me or whatever. He was doing the same thing, and he was doing the same thing, but he was better at it because you taught him.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

Learn from us, learn from us. This is where we are your um bad examples. Great, but we're the only ones you got to do.

SPEAKER_00 29:57

He literally learned of all the ways that Carrie got caught, he did and then made sure that he didn't get caught in the same way.

SPEAKER_01 30:04

Leads us directly into our next thing used to justify controlling behavior. Mm-hmm. Emotional safety. Yep. Okay, next toxic behavior.

SPEAKER_00 30:18

I feel called out on the city. And then triggers. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 30:21

Use yeah, that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 30:23

Yeah, emotional, that's that's a big one. And that's hard, especially when you've gone through like traumatic event with a previous relationship, and so this new person is like trying to be like, I understand what you've been through. I would never do that to you. Like this is it's like it's one of those you don't deserve to be hurt like that. You deserve to be hurt like this. Like, that's exactly what that is.

SPEAKER_01 30:48

Yeah, I feel like this episode might start a few fights too.

SPEAKER_00 30:51

I feel like this is like this is regrettably called out as all. It's fine. It's fine.

SPEAKER_01 31:00

I mean, in a in a good positive way, healthy communication is what we like. We want to push here. Okay, so we are gonna run into our fun little segment. Now let's just shift gears. Sorry on that. Um, okay, but that's good. We're gonna we're gonna play a little game called High Maintenance or Healthy Boundaries. Um so we are gonna read some behaviors and then we're gonna decide if they're reasonable or if someone is doing the absolute most fucking most. I love that I knew that's where that was going. And remember, we are not the same. So this is where it's so fun because like these last. So we were like, oh, we're kind of the same, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, no, we have varying different opinions on these things and also vast um experiences, which makes it so interesting. Like, we both have like lots of trauma in different ways, different, like lots of just different things, but the parallel. So it makes for great conversation as far as like I also learn more about you and you just fucking make me laugh too.

SPEAKER_00 32:01

So I'm glad that I make you laugh. Honestly, doing the questions is how you can learn the most about me because I'm an open book when it comes to like I will answer any question anybody asks me, and I won't answer it. Honestly, I just I have a harder time openly sharing information because I don't know what you want to know. But if you ask me a direct question, then I can, you know what I can give you a direct answer-ish. I mean the ADHD version of a direct answer.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

Speaking of direct answers, we have three options as I read one.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

Oh, perfect. That makes it easier.

SPEAKER_01 32:35

Healthy boundary, okay, high maintenance, okay depends. Okay. Okay. Depends. All right. Um scenario examples. We already talked about this one, but we will go into it. Expecting your partner to unfollow X's. Depends. It depends. Wanting daily communication, healthy boundary. Um well, depends on how far into the relationship you are. But if if you're in, if you're say you're in a relationship, we're in a committed control relationship.

SPEAKER_00 33:07

I think that that is a healthy boundary.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

I'm like telling you what's in the book.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

Even just to check in. Even just even this is the one thing that California, the gentleman that I'm talking to, everybody knows about at this point. Um, he will message me in the morning and be like, hey, good morning. I'm gonna have a super busy day today and I'm not gonna be available to message. That's all it takes. And then I'm like, awesome. And then I without thinking about it. I'm not worried about it. I the expectation is beset. I'm not reaching out and like patiently like being like, what's going on? Why is he not answering? Like, and that's all it's that fucking simple. It is that that's why it's mind-boggling to me that so many people have issues with communication when it's literally that simple.

SPEAKER_01 33:48

Literally.

SPEAKER_00 33:48

Oh god, yeah. Don't do that. You're gonna make me do that, and then we're both gonna cry. Don't say that either, because if you get me sick, I swear women. I'm sorry, we're almost done. Healthy boundary, don't get me sick.

SPEAKER_01 34:03

Splitting bills depends.

SPEAKER_00 34:06

So I this is difficult for me. Um, because I've never been in a relationship where we brought in like equal money and split things. Um, because like the only person that I really integrated was with Carrie, prisoner and Carter. And that was so bad that I've got to be a bit of a big thing. This is weird.

SPEAKER_01 34:28

I know, but this is like I don't know how this really fits in because it's like healthy boundary high maintenance. I feel like splitting bills is like a conversation that's just to be had in any sort of like I guess so healthy boundary because you have a conversation about it. Yeah, and but there's so many factors that go into it. So do you believe it? Healthy boundary depends, healthy boundary.

SPEAKER_00 34:46

Do you believe in splitting 50-50 on bills or is it proportionate to income?

SPEAKER_01 34:52

Right, that's why there's so many variables, so it has to be depends, but it is a healthy boundary because it should be a conversation that you have before moving in together. Correct. You have to know. But this does not this does not count until you live together. Your bills are your bills, their bills are their bills, until like I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 35:11

I'm not that no, I think that I I am not the female that's sharing the bills, then you don't share the responsibility.

SPEAKER_01 35:18

It's not like, oh, I have bills, we're together. You put that's fucking weird.

SPEAKER_00 35:22

Yes. I and the weird thing is some girls do try to say, Oh, that's a boundary for me. That's not you don't understand what boundaries are.

SPEAKER_01 35:30

You're not your parent to take care of you.

SPEAKER_00 35:32

No, and it that's not what a boundary is.

SPEAKER_01 35:34

That's called a sugar daddy.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

That's you just that's something you want, but just because like that's not the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 35:41

Okay, I guess there are people in relationships because we are tr we like the traditional role, but like modern traditional, right? So we just but that to expect somebody to take care of you.

SPEAKER_00 35:51

Yeah. I'm really big on like if I'm if I'm if you're not living together, then that means you're not married, right? I feel like if I plan the date, I should be financially responsible for that date. Yes. So like if you are taking me out, then you should pay for that date. If I am taking you out, and I think that you should, in balance, take each other out. Like, I like planning dates as long as I get that in return. I don't like it when I'm the only one doing it.

SPEAKER_01 36:16

Yes, because then it fizzles out. You're like, I'm no longer.

SPEAKER_00 36:19

Yeah, but and I don't mind splitting things either, but it it goes back to as long as you have uh communication about expectations, healthy boundaries.

SPEAKER_01 36:31

We're getting really boring with our answers. That's okay. You're the one requiring therapy before dating.

SPEAKER_00 36:38

That's not healthy at all, actually.

SPEAKER_01 36:40

That is super knowing each other's phone passwords. I mean, I don't know. I guess depends. But if I feel like I have to have it, then I shouldn't be with you.

SPEAKER_00 36:52

If you feel like you need to have it just to be in a relationship with someone in general, I think you need therapy in that.

SPEAKER_01 36:59

Um sharing location depends. See, like I I am innocent on this one because I like like it just for the convenience and things, but again, it if you're demanding it, that's high maintenance. Um, expecting your partner to post you on social media. We talked about this. It has to come organically, or don't do it at all.

SPEAKER_00 37:15

Um, but yeah, at a certain point, yeah, I feel like anything we already talked about.

SPEAKER_01 37:20

But that's why we were supposed to like not go into them. We were supposed to just label.

SPEAKER_00 37:24

Oh, I don't like that.

SPEAKER_01 37:25

You you agreed to it when we started. Your ADHD already got you lost. Remember, you were supposed to say, as I ran through them again, healthy boundary, high maintenance or depends.

SPEAKER_00 37:34

I know, but I feel like we already talked about all of it.

SPEAKER_01 37:36

So it doesn't seem like we didn't actually say if they were healthy boundaries. Okay. We can just move on.

SPEAKER_00 37:42

I don't agree.

SPEAKER_01 37:43

So um lightning rounds we're gonna do the same thing. No long explanations, just quick responses. Um, opposite sex, best friends.

SPEAKER_02 37:56

Depends.

SPEAKER_01 38:00

It depends.

SPEAKER_00 38:01

But also, I don't know. It's hard to not have another conversation. How long? I struggle with it. Well, and what is the nature of that relationship?

SPEAKER_01 38:10

Are we all hanging out or is it just you two all the time?

SPEAKER_00 38:13

Does she make comments about me? You know what I mean? Like, if or does she joke about like, oh, we have to backstory. Okay, so we were gonna get married if we were both singing a blah blah blah. Quick reactions.

SPEAKER_01 38:26

No, quick reactions, it doesn't matter. Okay, um, quick reactions, no. I'm gonna say no. No, what? You have to just quick reaction, no depends. You have to say yes or no.

SPEAKER_00 38:34

No, I said depends.

SPEAKER_01 38:35

You can't. You have to say yes or no.

SPEAKER_00 38:37

Whether it's healthy or not, whether like in yours, like for you.

SPEAKER_01 38:41

For you, just like for you in your personal experience, like what would that would you be comfortable with that? Yes or no? No backstory. You just have to say yes or no. Are you gonna be more comfortable or lean?

SPEAKER_00 38:51

More towards no.

SPEAKER_01 38:52

Yeah, exactly. Me too. It's like more or less. Like, which way does your barometer go? I know we can we can make cases for either side.

SPEAKER_00 38:58

It's just that's a mental struggle for me.

SPEAKER_01 39:00

I know, but you just have to. Um couple sharing bank account, no.

SPEAKER_00 39:04

No.

unknown 39:05

We probably know.

SPEAKER_00 39:06

I don't even have to think on that one.

SPEAKER_01 39:08

Um, posting relationship fights online, no. No, don't do that. Tracking your partner's location for the fun of it and because you want to see where there are. Yes, for bad things. Yes, it's fine. Oh, we can't to give explanations. Yes, yes, but I'm just making sure that people know that I'm not psycho and I just because it's because I share mine. I'm like, here, follow me around. Sometimes I forget where I'm at. Sometimes you don't know where you're. This is for everyone's benefit. Hey, that hasn't happened in a very long time, you know. No, it hasn't.

SPEAKER_00 39:39

This whole like it's because we're we're kind of lame now, and I'm totally okay with it. Me too. Me too.

SPEAKER_01 39:48

All right. The end of the lightning, right? That was kind of it, yeah. That was it. So we just kind of wrapping it up. So, like, again, we just go back to what one person calls high maintenance and what one calls like boundaries. They're all over the place, depending on like your current circumstance.

SPEAKER_00 40:10

I think that's what makes boundaries hard. I think that is that I know I question myself when I'm like, is this a boundary? Like, is this me putting myself first or is this me putting a barrier? That's what's hard for me. A boundary versus currently. Yeah, I think we're we're up to I I stick with my boundaries 40% of the time, which is improvement.

SPEAKER_01 40:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 40:38

That's where I'm at.

SPEAKER_01 40:39

But like, I'm sure there's several listeners that are like honestly the same. Because a lot of us were programmed, I feel like, especially in the 90s, to just like 90s kids are just like, you just do what the fuck you're told. That's why there's a lot of like high functioning ADHD type A anxiety-ridden people in our age group, um, with high functioning anxiety. But um I honestly think it just boils down to learning your healthy boundaries and like what's healthy for you and sticking to them. And they can't.

SPEAKER_00 41:08

And not taking it too far because like the newer generation don't become high maintenance. The newer generation people, I'm I'm so grateful that like they're being brought up in a world where like these conversations take place. You know what I mean? It was much more taboo when we were younger to even talk about therapy in general, let alone like the specifics of therapy. Um, but I almost feel like it's an overcompensation for lack of boundaries from higher generations where now they think everything is a boundary when it's really just people use uh using that term or manipulating that term to try to get their way. And that's not that's not healthy. So that's why it's important to distinguish between a healthy boundary versus like you're literally just trying to manipulate people to get your way. That's not a boundary. A boundary is what what are you willing to accept? You're like, I'm I'm not willing to accept a man in my life who does these things versus nobody is allowed to do these things ever because it bothers me.

SPEAKER_01 42:06

So here's the thing like you, okay, this is a great one. You are allowed, like, so say something happens to you, like so to your partner, you are allowed to do XYZ. You do you, but I can't be with you when you do that. Yep. And either one is fine. But that's 100%.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

And I've that was like when uh I've had a cowardly lion, right? I was recently sober, he was forced sober due to course, and I told him from the beginning, like, I'm not gonna tell you you can't drink, but I am gonna tell you I don't want to be around you when you drink. So feel free to go hang out with the boys or whatever and do and go drink, have a good time. You're allowed to do that. I'm not telling you you don't. I'm just telling you for me, my boundary is I need to not be around alcohol. So I am choosing to not go with you when you do that. And then he would still drink in front of me. I'm like, that's now that's you disrespecting my boundary because I didn't tell you you couldn't drink, you're allowed to drink. I'm just saying, not around me.

SPEAKER_01 43:12

Right. And then that's why you're like, bye eventually. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:15

One of the reasons. There were multiple. But yeah, but see, I think that that's that was a good example for me of me trying to have a healthy boundary, being like, alcohol is hard for me. I'm choosing to not be around alcohol because I wasn't great at holding the boundary because he would break it and I wouldn't immediately leave, but I would just get frustrated and then you know it spiraled and it became so that's why it's also important to not not just identify your boundary, but hold your boundary because those are apparently two separate things. I'm learning.

SPEAKER_01 43:47

I want you to drop us a text, hit the little button, let us know some of your boundaries. These can also, they're anonymous, so remain anonymous. Um, you can tell us who you are if you want to. You do have to tell us unless you put your actual phone number in and one of us has it. I don't know. But um so these do come across anonymous.

SPEAKER_00 44:04

Some people think that we can tell it's them based off of what the message content is, but we can't because it doesn't tell us.

SPEAKER_01 44:10

And you don't have to, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:11

So if you want us to know it to you, please put it in the message.

SPEAKER_01 44:15

Because it comes across through our podcast platform. So it's not like, yeah. So please let us know. Um, we want to hear like your confessions. Your like you can tell us your boundary versus maybe maybe you have a controlling one or uh you have a boundary, either one. You can be on either side of us, you can be anonymous, you can give us your heart. Take on it, your opinion. We want to know. And we're gonna read some listeners interaction next time. Some feedback, some emails, all the things. Um, yeah. Till next time, guys. Bye. Bye.