The Wise Mind Happy Hour
Two therapists musing about the idea of an inner wise mind and how to connect with this psychic space in different contexts.
The Wise Mind Happy Hour
Welcome!
Welcome to the Wise Mind Happy Hour podcast. This episode covers the concept of the wise mind, its background in Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT), some meandering associations to it (including the Back to the Future musical and NBA basketball), and more. Enjoy!
- featuring music by blanket forts -
Okay, so welcome to the Wise Mind. Happy Hour everyone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, everyone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, welcome. We'd like to thank DJ Blanketforts for gifting us some intro music 100%.
Speaker 2:And, of course, our lovely producer, yes, josh.
Speaker 1:Baer King, josh Baer In the house yes. Thank you so much for editing and producing and helping us.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much. Yes, 100%. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So yeah, the purpose of this episode. We're going to intro our concept here. So I mean, maybe we should start with happy hour. What do you know happy hour to be?
Speaker 2:Happy hour is a place where friends gather after work. Yeah, maybe two hours. Maybe appetizers, a lot of drinks, yeah, specials. Discount rate, discount rate yeah, just a place to gather, have fun, decompress, yeah, relax.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, the reason we're using this term is because we're going to be obviously talking about clinical topics.
Speaker 2:Yes, boring.
Speaker 1:Boring snooze. Who cares? No, we care. Even if you don't care, we care, you'll see that. But we also don't want it to be too stuffy, too formal. We do enough of that, right. So, yeah, we want it to be too stuffy, too formal. We do enough of that, right. So, yeah, we wanted to be like talking about clinical concepts at a happy hour, with drinks, with coffee, I don't know if coffee happy hour is a thing, but if it isn't, depends on when it depends on when the happy hour, yeah, yeah yeah, any hour can be happy and this one's going to be, yes, okay, so that's the happy art piece, the wise mind piece, basically the core clinical concept we're going to explore in this podcast.
Speaker 1:So, and we, john and I, well, maybe we'll back up and go into our intros, yeah, and talk a little bit about ourselves. Yeah, do you want to tell everyone?
Speaker 2:yeah, your background yes, background john therapist counselor. Um yeah, I've been doing this for 20 years. Wow, which is wild, isn't that wild, wow?
Speaker 2:I know it's weird, but yeah, my path has kind of taken me into a lot of different directions community mental health, group, group therapy, counseling there I was in management for a while managing like residential facilities for people with more chronic mental illness, private practice. But my main focus in the last 10 years has been group therapy, intensive group therapy, how we met, how we met, yes, and so you know group therapy is really my passion, and certainly doing it from a DBT lens. So dialectical behavior therapy lens and acceptance and commitment therapy lens, those are my two kind of passions. So just a lot of group therapy is really what I'm passionate about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and that is how we met.
Speaker 2:Which? How long have we known each other?
Speaker 1:Yeah, we, I'm trying, I was trying to think of that that must have been 2017.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was after. I remember it was after Trump got elected, because I was in Northbrook.
Speaker 2:True, working in Northbrook, and now is where we go political.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now we're starting to become an extremely political podcast. That was the big thing.
Speaker 2:People came to our podcast thinking they were going to be like. You know, this is going to be actually like nice decompressing happy hour. No, we're going straight politics. No, no, no, no 2017, right, yes, 2017.
Speaker 1:You came, I was working in Chicago, you came over, came over, yeah, and then we, we were like a three person team, yep, and yeah, doing a lot, yeah, a lot of DBT and act style therapy groups. Um, and yeah, like talking a ton about this constant wise mind. I, I'm big into oh, I might've just rustled my mic there Okay, I, um, I love group therapy and have done that for so long. Also, do individual therapy, not doing as much group therapy now, and man, do I miss it.
Speaker 2:Well, we miss you in the group therapy space. For sure, I just always remember that story of you being like when I came to the chicago location and you, and what did I say to you?
Speaker 1:I said something like I was like it feels like you've been here for so much shorter than you've been here for, or no, or so much like it feels so different than other people who join the team like join the team yeah and you were like, and I was like well, it's because you don't have to train my ass like I have experience killed me. I was like I don't have to train my ass, which is true.
Speaker 2:That's why I was like so not that I knew everything, but it was. But at that moment it was kind of like yeah, I had experience, so let's just get right into it.
Speaker 1:What I loved, which you know this, you had your own like point of view, style, like voice in the therapy room, which not every therapist that joins a team has, that like, like a relationship to the material yourself, you know. Yes.
Speaker 1:And we'll keep going and keep keep complimenting more, more, for sure, more um, but you know, like, go on like this is obviously with the concept, like wise mind or any therapy concept. To really be able to be like a good individual therapist, a good group therapist, you have to really like relate to the material and use it in your own life and have a relationship to it. 100 you can like get by I. I would maybe argue, if you just kind of like know it more like intellectually, then you really do.
Speaker 1:You really can like connect with your clients and really like make the material come alive, well, near and wide.
Speaker 2:I feel like the difference between knowledge and wisdom, because you can know this stuff from an almost like encyclopedic, almost like understanding of the therapy material, but if you're not doing your own work, if you're not thinking about yourself how it relates to you in therapy right, clinicians need to be in therapy to experience it and also just to work on themselves, because we're not perfect either. So I think that that is the difference, like the wisdom is, in order to be the most effective therapist right, or trying to be the most effective therapist. There's the knowledge, but then there's also right. How does it relate to me? What am I working on? What are my growth edges? And then that does make us more relatable in the space that makes us more.
Speaker 2:We're just like in, like in it with them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and hopefully we'll be in it with all of you who are listening. Yes, but yeah, yeah, exactly, we're going to talk a lot about this concept of wise mind. We're going to, in this episode, intro it, define it and then also intro the podcast in general, like what we plan to have in terms of, like, different types of content around wise mind. The wise mind, how to get there, how different therapy modalities get at this concept, because really every type of therapy out there has some version of this pretty much, and they label it different things, but really it's there in some way. So we're going to talk a bit about that. We're going to have some guests on Guests absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, segments, segments about wisdom, wise mind culture.
Speaker 2:Are things wise? Are they not wise? Yeah, yeah, what does that?
Speaker 1:mean and we're going to hold the concept lightly right, we're going to be open to like different ways of viewing it Absolutely.
Speaker 2:We want to approach this with curiosity.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally. So I can go into my background a little bit. I am a I'm Kelly, I'm a licensed clinical social worker and right now I have a private practice and I see individuals. But, yeah, I have a long history of group therapy. I've been a therapist now for 10 years. Because I Wow, yeah, yeah, because at 2014 is when I graduated grad school.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but we met before we worked together. Yes, because we met at a different location. Yeah, we weren't on the same team, right? So we knew each other.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But then we went to a different location, or you went to a different location than I. Came to that location, yes. And then we worked on the same team yes then we worked on the same team.
Speaker 1:I used to work more with young adults. That's right, yes, which I did like, but I also really like working with adults, like a larger range of big kids, as you might say Big kids yeah, well, the interesting thing is, as I said, 20 years, the further. I get away from the young adults the more unrelatable, I feel like I am.
Speaker 2:Well, they do keep you, young they do they well? To me it's like I know the lingo. I think they keep me feeling old, it's like both. I don't know if they keep me young as much as they keep me feeling like, wow, I have no idea what they're talking about what is this? What is a?
Speaker 1:twitter. Why are his pants so short? Why are they cut that way? I was like because he's cool, right yeah like why are they wearing such odd clothing? Yeah, it's like it's not odd, that's what people wear now.
Speaker 2:That's how you fit that's how you fit in, yeah, so just yeah, adults is kind of more of my jam now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's nice's nice Young adults.
Speaker 2:In my practice I see more adults but there's definitely a different energy and feel to the young adults, which is nice. That energy can feel really nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and they can be like, sometimes, more open to change.
Speaker 2:Yes, and sometimes it's amazing when you like introduce something to them that you've maybe thought of for such a long period of time, but then they've never thought of it and there's, so it's almost like mind blown right, like you see that look in their eyes and that's like that is a very satisfying thing. Where it's like they're like Whoa, like I've never thought about it like that way before. Yeah, they're like so the changes? Yeah, like I can change myself in this way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's wild, no, it's great, so yeah. So then, yeah, we met in group therapy and then I did a little individual therapy on the side and now I do that full time pretty much. But, yeah, we missed our coworker relationship, or at least I can speak for myself Absolutely I missed that For sure. And we figured this is a great form to reopen it.
Speaker 2:And yeah like, and if anybody wants to know what the dynamic was in the office because Kelly and I shared an office the dynamic was I would come in or she would come in and it would be hello, that's the Kelly, hello. And then, pretty much within five minutes it was so. I was listening to a podcast, john, and so you know Kelly has a huge repertoire of podcasts that she's listened to.
Speaker 2:I'm going to add it was always a great nugget and that was one of the things I really liked about our working relationship is you were so well-versed in so many different things. Oh, that's nice and I feel like I was, but there was always like a like. Whenever we would talk. There was always like oh, did you read this book or did you do this? And I feel like that really was like oh, I need to like. I need to like do some more research.
Speaker 1:Well, but you always have a take and a really interesting perspective on things, because I would say this, because you're very connected to yourself and you really do know yourself and I would say like, in a lot of ways, are great at accepting yourself, foibles and all.
Speaker 1:I mean, but that's really to me, and, speaking of wise mind, a huge piece of access in your wise mind is self-acceptance. Yes, that's that getting to that place of wholeness. And you, really you like you can do it, even like come hell or high water, in situations where I would like fully abandon myself and just be like anything. I'm scared, you know like especially work situations where you're being like pressured by a boss or something. Yeah, you know, you're very good at like no, I'm standing firm in who I am, my perspective, and even when we would like shoot the shit about a podcast or about like a bernie brown video or something you like, bring your own self to the conversation which always makes for like a really good actual dialogueirm.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like to be firm on a take.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you are firm on a take, passionate on a take. And I'm passionate too, sometimes like to a fault myself. I'm like so much passionate, I'm like not listening to anyone but myself. Well, that's all right, but that's maybe the foible.
Speaker 2:They're wrong in those situations.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, sometimes with a more timid coworker I can steamroll them a little bit. But yeah, but hopefully eventually we invite them back in. Yeah, repair.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a little rupture and repair, that's okay. A little rupture and repair, we're therapists, we know how to do that. Yeah, totally talk about it yeah, so okay.
Speaker 1:So that's us, that. Those are our background that's us.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, and we're also real people. I have a family.
Speaker 1:Yeah, tell us about your fam uh, you know they're okay.
Speaker 2:No, I um beautiful wife, lovely wife who's also in the field which is great that we can talk about these concepts as well social worker. And then my two, my two boys one just turned nine, my oldest and then my youngest, I know, and my youngest is going to be seven in October. Wow, which is wise, yeah, really wise.
Speaker 1:That's the wisest age one could be. That's the wisest age.
Speaker 2:Number seven. It's just such a balance, biblically perfect. Yeah, I mean there's no really issues with them. Average my life is yeah so. Yeah. So my family life, which is great, it's always changing, which is fun and really keeps you on your toes, yeah, so in a struggle, I mean it is, you're working every day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I imagine like finding your wise mind as a dad.
Speaker 2:Yes, I'm shaking my head. Yeah, I'm shaking my head. Nobody can see this, but it's so hard. Yeah, I can imagine there's so many emotions and you're drafting off so many emotions and the children are much more at times in their emotion mind which like pulls you into that emotional place and for me at least, personally, that more like I want to react then and it's like really hard to be like okay, level.
Speaker 2:Sarah was telling me, my wife was telling me that there's this idea of like the pilot on the plane, right, and like you're as a parent, you're like the pilot, right, you're like taking the family in a direction. You don't want the pilot to like come back into the cabin and be like, oh my God, you know, like what are you doing? You know that type of thing because it's like then they're going to be panicked. Yeah, there's turbulence, it's turbulence, right, and that's not my wife's concept, but you know, from a lot of the books and literature we've read, but like the idea is like you've got to come in with that wiseness. You've got to come in with that, yes, the emotion, but also like let's, because even if we're in turbulence, they're going to draft off you right, which is hard for me to not draft off them in those moments, right, yeah, no, and you're using terms we'll get into like emotion mind, right, which is a big piece of it.
Speaker 1:But yeah, you know what's funny that you say this about kids and their emotion mind? Yesterday, out of nowhere, my fiancé, josh and I this is some of my background. I have a fian, josh, who's doubling as our podcast producer, essentially an editor.
Speaker 2:Man of all trades.
Speaker 1:Man of all trades and a wonderful guy. He and I hosted my nieces, my brother's three daughters and the eldest niece, who just turned four. She all of a sudden, out of nowhere, recited something she learned at school, which was like squeeze yourself nice and slow, Take a deep breath, Let it go.
Speaker 1:Which is like I think, almost like a way that they teach her at daycare to like reset and like maybe find her wise mind. She kind of said it out of nowhere and I was like, oh, I wonder if she's like overwhelmed in this moment. You know, like something is like it was loud in here. The other two were like running around screaming, but it was cute it was like take me to a happy place. Yeah, yeah, take me out of this moment she also.
Speaker 1:This is a total sidebar. What I'm going to say anyway. She also she's vegan, the whole family's vegan. I don't know why, because they believe in not harming animals, which is great. But sometimes her mom, my sister-in-law, lets her eat cheese Like, lets her sometimes eat like vegetarian instead of vegan. They're kids and like they're going to get stuff at school and whatever, and she wants them to make that choice more voluntarily. But I gave her a piece of cheese and I said don't tell daddy, because he's a little bit less into them just being vegetarian.
Speaker 1:He kind of wants to only feed them vegan stuff. And she turned to Josh and I and she said we choose not to eat animals. And I was like what? I had such a chill down my spine. I was like, oh, such a chill down my spine. I was like, oh, wow, like it made me feel a little bit guilty.
Speaker 2:I wish you looked at me dead in the eye. We choose not to eat animals.
Speaker 1:Yeah and I was like okay, like maybe I should think about my own choices, my own wise mind in this, because, you know, sometimes I will say, sometimes like the eating mindlessly. You know that's how you have to be. If you're going to consume certain things like meat or whatever, you kind of have to like tune out your wise mind. We'll even get into that. Like are there moments where it's like being more in touch with your emotion mind is more valuable if you're running out of a burning building or whatever, right, and you can be leaning in one direction right, so you can be leaning more emotional and still in that wise place.
Speaker 2:I think that's a thing that gets lost in the discussion when we talk through and again we'll get into more of the like nuts and bolts of the wise mind, but like it's this, like Venn diagram, right, and these two circles that are overlapping, and then there's this middle section, but it's not like a sliver of like wise where, where it's perfectly balanced, it's like, no, I can be more in an emotional place and still be making wise decisions, or I can be more in a in a rational place and still be making wise decisions. I'm not completely like void of my emotional experience well, yeah, and that's.
Speaker 1:We'll get into this too. That's a big distinction between cbt and dbt, right? It's like really embracing of the emotional side and integrating it. So maybe we can get into that kind of like DBT definition.
Speaker 2:Yes, the DBT definition.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so yeah. The term wise mind originates in DBT dialectical behavior therapy, yes which is Developed by Marshall.
Speaker 2:Linehan, yeah, right, and Marshall Linehan came out with, I think, three manuals. Yeah, maybe two.
Speaker 1:I think her first one was actually called CBT yeah.
Speaker 2:I think you're right. And then the next one was 93.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right, and that was for treating specifically borderline personality disorder.
Speaker 2:Which she has a diagnosis of yes, so history of you know, mental health struggles, but also a clinician herself. And then 2015 was when the second skills manual and that was yeah, so there was a long period there and I think that in that period there was just a lot of research being done, that this is trans diagnostic, so it doesn't really matter, not for just borderline, just really like life skills overall, and really we want to create a rich and kind of meaningful life, right, that life worth living. That's what she says, that create that life worth living alongside of our struggles. So it's not that we have to get rid of our struggles, it's can we have our struggles and still create a life worth living, which really that's all about the holding the dialectic right, that idea that like two things that are opposed or opposites, or you know that we feel like they can't like coexist they actually can coexist within the same space.
Speaker 2:And so yeah wise mind is the core concept, and can I get?
Speaker 1:can I get clinical for it? I think we need the like clinical. We need a little clinicalness here, okay well, let's get stuffy so wise mind is a core concept in dialectical behavior therapy.
Speaker 2:It represents a balance between the emotional mind and the reasonable mind. So understanding the three minds emotion mind is driven by feelings and, at the same time, intuition. Reasonable mind is based on logic, facts and analysis. And then wise mind is a harmonious blend of emotion and reason leading to balanced decisions.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you can almost picture like a classic diagram, right?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, there's two circles overlapping that middle place. Is that wise? Yeah, definitely. Yeah, is it always? This is a sidebar. I feel like I've seen clinicians write rational money that?
Speaker 1:is it really reasonable?
Speaker 2:I don't have the I don't have the textbook in front of me right here which maybe I should have brought I think in the newer text she does write reasonable mind, so we can use those interchangeably in the podcast.
Speaker 1:Reasonable and rational okay, for some reason, in my lingo it's motion mind, emotion mind and rational mind, yeah, but we could say reasonable mind.
Speaker 2:I've heard some people say logical mind too oh, for the rational piece, yeah, or the real, oh, but maybe that was just like someone who was, like confused um somebody who doesn't have our training.
Speaker 1:No, not quite, as I'm like saying the wrong thing. Um same with self-compassion, which I'm sure we'll get into a bunch on this podcast, but um, the reign of self-compassion is an acronym and the last letter is like up for debate Is it nourish, is it nurture?
Speaker 2:You know what's the. But I think, defining this from the DBT perspective, this gives us like that kind of like base criterion, right, Because I think we'll always come back Not that this is the only concept and they're all so valuable, but this is a very quick way to kind of like okay, is it wise? We're referring back maybe, to like this. It also says here ooh, the benefits of wise mind, Do we want to think about those? Yeah, let's talk about it. Improved in decision-making. Ooh, by considering both emotions and logic.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Enhanced problem solving, finding solutions that are both practical and emotionally satisfying. Yeah, enhanced problem solving, finding solutions that are both practical and emotionally satisfying. Yeah, increased self-awareness, which I think that probably speaks to. Well, I guess I'll speak for myself, that kind of speaks to me. Yeah, like the decision making and problem solving great. But the self-awareness is recognizing when you're in emotional or reasonable mind and striving for balance, right. So that idea of like if we want to move towards effectiveness, or like life worth living or just happiness, I feel like it's that self-awareness. And then better relationships, communicating effectively by understanding your own and others' perspectives.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally, that resonates for me. All of that stuff, yeah, because well, and a big, big, I think a big idea in the transition of the field from cbt to like these third wave cbt which would be dbt and act. Um, the transition had to do with recognizing, like the emotion mind is there, it's valid, yes, to just try to tune it out and make all your choices from there. It does leave something to be desired. A lot of like even almost spiritual fulfillment is less prioritized when you're just in that reasonable mind and really that like what do you want? That question does matter and does kind of come from a little bit of emotion mind yes what do you enjoy?
Speaker 1:what makes your life feel full? Yes, and that needs to kind of be embraced I think I just personally full disclosure yeah I am not a therapist, actually.
Speaker 2:No, I'm kidding, I am a therapist. That was a joke.
Speaker 2:Um, I don't have a license I actually am not qualified to be on this podcast. No, I think, just overall in my life, I do lean into the reasonable and rational I just am. And so I think that for me, though I am what I feel is a pretty empathic, emotionally aware person, I just think at a base level I do lean more towards that logic, I lean more towards that reasonable, and so I think that's just always going to be, not that it can't change, but always a growth edge for me. That's just me, I think. I don't know when do you think you like.
Speaker 1:But that's funny that you say that, because and Josh is my fiance sitting right here but you know, I'm an incredibly to a fault emotional person. Like when I'm worried about something or maybe more poignantly, angry about something, the whole room can feel it. Sure, and I really can like go. If something is like bothering me or I'm worried about something, I mean I can go from zero to like the world is crumbling and I'm like on my knees in excruciating emotional pain. I really think that I my growth edge for me is to like be with my emotion mind and not let it overwhelm me Truly. And that's a big piece of accepting myself is like this is never going away. Yes, and you can think of it from so many perspectives, like I'm a Pisces, notoriously extremely emotional.
Speaker 2:Here we go, here we go. You know the first episode. I thought we could avoid the Zodiac, but okay, wait, we can't.
Speaker 1:We can't avoid it, let me get on my life chart right now. I think for me how much my type is my experience. I just I have to bring it in here and I know some people are going to fully tune out of the podcast if I go too far into this. We have a full season dedicated to charting our stars.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but so really like I am just extremely emotional, so I I'm in touch with my rational mind very much, but I really can get bogged down in emotional pain or sometimes even excitement and joy. Yeah, can really. I've had times in my life where it really makes me feel like I'm off the ground and spinning into oblivion, or even sometimes I'm very like if I have something I have to do and it's Friday afternoon, I'm being called to do only fun things, even if genuinely, you need to get this done before the end of today. I can feel myself pulled in this emotional way toward like something fun.
Speaker 2:Well, I even think that, and not that it was ever conflictual, but like even in our dynamic in the office, I feel like there were some tense moments where it would be like because I lean more rational logic, problem solving, and you were maybe in that place for whatever reason there was like this, like tension in the room because it was like I was trying to like what I thought was being effective fixer logic give me you know, give you the reasons, or whatever like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's the thing with my kids yeah like Sarah, my wife will tell me all the time. It's like you're like talking to them as if, like, they're gonna understand this logical like thing and it's like in this moment, I feel like that's so helpful for them because I'm like, oh my god, they're so emotional. Let me break it down for them from like a logic perspective. They can't hear any. I might as well be speaking another language, right, and so it's like I have to like catch that, because that again to a fault. It's like oh, like yeah, I just need be with them. I just need to be in these emotion places because I'm speaking to them as if they're even able to, one, understand what I'm saying, but two, able to even access that. They're like on 10 right now in that emotional place, you know, yeah that's so true.
Speaker 1:I almost think that's why Marsha Lynn was so uniquely able to like create this revolutionary new type of therapy, because she has such a powerful emotion, mind herself and in her own experiences of treatment, realized they're not like reaching me where I live, you know like they're all of these like thought, challenge and just like break it down in this rational way when she was like from the inside on fire.
Speaker 1:She needed someone to be able to say like this fire you have is okay. Yes, you feel it. It's, yes, it's hurting you and dragging you places you don't want to go. Yet it's valid that you feel this.
Speaker 2:You're human, you're extremely human and it's full stop see, because my mind's already going to, what do you follow up that sentence with?
Speaker 2:and it's like you don't need to follow up that sentence it's just kind of like whatever you're feeling right now is is valid and can we sit in? That right, because the problem solving or whatever can come later. So that's the. The wisdom right there is to like know when it's. When are we leaning more into the? Yeah, the problem solving, the fix it, the not you know, I hate the word or the, the idea of fixing, because you're not really fixing things but just more of like okay, what do we move? What's the next move? It's like let's just sit, let's just be what this feels like.
Speaker 1:Well, and also I like what you said. I think this is wisdom. This is even beyond, like the concept of wise mind, but I think wisdom is a lot of like knowing when to say less yes and do less and just kind of be in a moment. Right. It's like I almost feel like it's like a cliche that wisdom is like succinct.
Speaker 2:Well, you know what's interesting too, they bring that up a lot Like they talk about popular culture, but like when something like in sports happens, like epic, yeah, they kind of talk about like don't say anything, let the moment kind of like unfold right, like an, like an epic win or things like that, and they'll say that like broadcasters, kind of like. Not that they ruin it, that's a harsh word, but it's like just let it, let it sink in. Yeah, like choose your words or just don't say anything and just kind of let it, because like people like over, yeah, talk it, you know, and that type of thing.
Speaker 2:Yes, be like just be, just be, yeah, just like.
Speaker 1:Let this sink in yeah, totally well, I love how I brought up astrology.
Speaker 2:You brought up sports, listen this is going to turn into we're going to do a season on the nba and then we're going to do a season. I forgot I like the nba.
Speaker 1:I forgot I like the nba. How do you forget? You like the NBA I forgot.
Speaker 2:I'm the NBA's number one what a great season that we just had too, because then all of them went to go and play in the Olympics. You know what was weird? Wait, maybe you did not know this. Here's a tidbit, josh, check this out. So this was Steph Curry's first Olympics.
Speaker 1:I knew he wasn't in the last one because I like him a lot and and I remember not seeing him that's wild I had to look that up.
Speaker 2:as to reasons why, which I feel like there was injuries, there was things like this, and he's played so many post-seasons too that I feel like that's a hard stretch. But anyway, I digress how is he not?
Speaker 1:I know I think he chose not to go.
Speaker 2:the last one, the like covet olympics tokyo. Yeah, but kevin durant was like crazy in that one. Kevin durant now is the all-time leading scorer in united states men's basketball whoa, yeah, I might have to fact check that.
Speaker 1:Wait a second let me type that in and fact check that I don't want to give erroneous nba information I'm really I'm making it sound as though I truly am deeply a fan, and I know it's like if we tap too far. No, this is great.
Speaker 2:I remember you texting me a picture from the Bulls game. You were so proud of yourself. Wait, do people know that we live in Chicago?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, we should say this, we should say this we live in the Chicago area, the north side of Chicago, and, yeah, we live and work in this area.
Speaker 2:I'm from Chicago, I am not, and that will come up very probably clear on the podcast, because, though I've lived in Chicago for well, yeah, I moved down here like 20 years, like literally 20 years. I'm from Milwaukee, yeah, which is in Wisconsin, for those of you out there that don't know For those of you not in a flyover state, that is a city. And they do have an NBA team, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a pretty good one. So my not in a flyover. That is a city and they do have an nba team, um, yeah, so.
Speaker 2:So my accent has not lifted. I will still say things that are very wisconsin. People, though, will still ask me if I'm from minnesota as well, or like north dakota people from milwaukee, because we worked with another person from milwaukee.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sounded kind of like they're from minnesota yes, okay, fact checked here.
Speaker 2:Okay, kevin durant surpassed Lisa Leslie, amazing basketball player to become.
Speaker 1:I'm like I'd go off Lisa.
Speaker 2:Leslie, the all-time leading scorer for US basketball.
Speaker 1:Wow, it's wild. Right, that is wild.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's very, very good, unbelievable, I don't know much about him as a person, but I just know that he has some of the best nicknames the slim reaper that's weird his nicknames I love that is that and?
Speaker 1:tarantula, tarantula. Yeah, because he has long arms, I think yeah, there's a little bit as well with the name it's just all.
Speaker 2:I think it goes well, but also like, yeah, he's got very long limbs yeah, and things like that.
Speaker 1:so anyway, how coming in handy is that? How in handy does that come?
Speaker 2:How in handy, does it come? I think it comes very in handy yeah.
Speaker 1:In sports ball.
Speaker 2:It's probably in handy, yeah For sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, maybe this is giving me some ideas in terms of could sports come into this? When we talk about like wise mind in media, wise mind in sports? I actually find in basketball, when they interview the players after the game, they all have like phds in basketball. Like the way how eloquent they are, yeah, describing their like thought process in the game, the like intentions of the team and, more than other sports, like I've never heard a baseball player talk like well, but isn there?
Speaker 2:let's unpack that a little bit, because isn't when it, whether it be sports or anything, when you're truly in that flow state, aren't you just acting intuitively from your why?
Speaker 1:I mean, isn't?
Speaker 2:there that concept within wise mind where it's like you're literally going with the flow, you're, you're intuitively there's that almost like balance, that you're not like striving to get it, it's just because you're in it, you're living, you know it so well, you're so well like skilled in it, yeah, that you're automatically almost in your wise place. That it's like that intuitive nature of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and they say, because you're what you're talking about too is like how presence the presence yeah plays into the wise mind, which it does. It's like when you're connected to the present moment and you both sort of lose yourself and find yourself in the present moment. That's, that's synonymous with being connected to your wise mind. And yeah, I think in basketball, because it's like a unique combination of like skill and challenge, when they play they really are like just kind of emanating that wise mind, or they even say like I sometimes I think I think maybe marshall and hand made this analogy, but you can sometimes watch a dancer on stage and it might look like they're sort of following steps yeah, wasn't that?
Speaker 2:one of the examples was like the intuitive dancer on the, the skillful dancer on the dance floor.
Speaker 1:Yes, where they look like they're just dancing, like it's just happening. There's some dancers and then some where it looks a little more performed and you want to be the dancer who's just it's just happening to their body.
Speaker 2:Yes, this reminds me of a book I read a long time ago by Timothy Galloway. It's called the inner game of tennis.
Speaker 1:See, I've heard of that Now we're going sports yeah. Sportball.
Speaker 2:This is not a sports podcast. I'm glad I wore my jersey here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you're fully dressed as if you're about to like hit the court. Yes.
Speaker 2:Sweatpants. That's what I'm doing after this. No, timothy Galloway, there are these concepts in the Inner Game of Tennis that there's two selves. He introduces this idea of the self One is the conscious mind that creates anxiety and self-doubt, and self, too, is the subconscious mind that knows how to perform effortlessly. Yeah, so it kind of the book and this is a gross oversimplification of it Um, and I haven't read it in years, but the idea was kind of like your body almost knows what to do, just intuitively body and what we naturally know as, whether it be athletes or just people like there's just an intuitive nature that we maybe gravitate more towards effectiveness than not. Yeah, which I think could be maybe a ubiquitous thing for just life in general.
Speaker 1:But yeah, um, but you know what that? That's brilliant, because I've not read that book and I'm so on board with that. But let's comment on it. But, yeah, but I'm going to give it a review. I'm going to break it down immediately. Yeah, I'm going to speak with authority on it, but that makes me think of good, old-fashioned Freudian ego self.
Speaker 2:Although.
Speaker 1:I guess ego, self would be more Jungian, I think. But you know, like the ego being that kind of outer shell that deals with like anxieties of the world, and then that inner self, inner like, even almost like soul, that is like naturally kind of open and has mastery and is powerful, while also being like quiet and whole, and you know all of that, and even like internal family systems same deal. It would probably self one. It would probably split into a million pieces as different little selves, and then that, that, um, deeper self, is what you just want to calm the shell. The self one, yes, so that the other one can lead you. The wise mind can lead you.
Speaker 2:Oh, internal family systems Love it. Just got a training on it. Need to know way more about it. I was really confused. Well, we don't have to get into it, but I was confused about the idea of like the firefighters that like help with, like that type of thing. Yeah, anyway.
Speaker 1:Well, I can even compare that a little bit, because I use a little bit, I've been trained on it a little but, I, haven't had the official full training because actually you have to like get on a wait list for it now. Oh my god. Yeah, it's very popular at this moment. Um, and it's like kind of pricey, but um anyway, but basically not knocking it. Yeah, not knocking it, I mean. I'm sure it's worth every penny. For sure everyone on reddit is like worth every penny that people would do it.
Speaker 2:Well, the training I went the, just the little I got was like wow, this is like super interesting.
Speaker 1:I need, I need to know more but you know it's also like it is similar. It takes a lot from union psychotherapy because the ego it's basically just take the ego and you split it into different parts and some of those parts are proactively protective and some are reactively protective and the firefighters are reactive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, see, the thing about firefighters that I that I got confused about was like they put out fires, yeah, and they're helpful, but some of the behaviors they were listing as firefighters were not the most helpful behaviors, like drugs. So that was why I was like confused by it, because I always I am too fused with the idea that firefighters are always like helpful in the sense of like putting out a fire and like helpful hot they're putting out.
Speaker 1:A fire is like they're they're.
Speaker 2:They got the bods and yes of course, and obviously they're only men yeah, yeah um, they have a calendar, yeah, no, but like the idea that, like a firefighter puts out a fire, but sometimes they actually create fires as a distraction, totally so what you're experiencing so you put out the fire of your feelings see, this is my rational. I'm not in the wise place. There's too much rational where I'm too logical about that I need to like get out of my head about I actually should.
Speaker 1:I'll recommend a really good ifs podcast to you that you will like and it has pretty short episodes and they explain it incredibly well. I love it. I heard this is really therapist explaining her approach to it and I was like this clarified almost everything, um, but yeah, but it's similar like in IFS. The wise mind in that modality is called just the self with a capital S.
Speaker 1:they make sure to capital S and it's like in the center of the circle, right Center of the circle and really the self is naturally compassionate, curious, like open, um, and it's kind of like fearless in a lot of ways, which, like is interesting because, like we need fear, obviously and marshall and hand gets at this really well like it is so useful to like living in the world we actually live in yeah to To be able to fear threatening things, and, like Freud and Jung would say the same thing, like you need the ego to be in society, right, but you cannot be overtaken by it and live a vital, satisfying life. And that's, I think, what we're going to get at a bit. Yeah, we're going to get at a bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I also like that. If we bring in enough Freud and Young, we'll probably capture the 80 and 90 year olds that are listening to podcasts.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my main demo.
Speaker 2:Our main demo.
Speaker 1:No, we're spreading a wide net here of people that are still in analysis, but I also feel like I'm speaking with authority on things I'm not trained in, which would be Freudians, yeah, and let's just be clear, kelly and I are not trained in, which would be Freudian.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and let's just be clear, kelly and I are not an authority on everything, on almost anything, almost anything really yes, myself included, and so we just like throwing these concepts around.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is not like direct therapy, advice or medical advice on this podcast Sports advice.
Speaker 2:Sports advice? Well yeah, no sports advice either.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're doing a bit of like curiously dialoguing about this stuff. We are going to discover things ourselves and talking about it with each other and our guests 100%. And that's what we want to do. But yeah, we want to talk about the wise mind, we want to, you know, explore this concept from so many different angles kind of endless angles.
Speaker 2:Hopefully have fun with it and also just think about some nonsense out there.
Speaker 1:that's just fun to talk about so we're going to bring in like our day-to-day experiences and like, if wise mind came up there, we might just selfishly talk about them because we want to chit chat.
Speaker 2:Yes, all that kind of stuff, which again and we were talking about this before the cast was because recently I just went to Back to the Future, the musical yeah yes, which was amazing. I can't say enough about it. It's here in Chicago for two weeks and we had a little date night. It was great. What I wasn't expecting was that it was actually kind of long. That movie is kind of long.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's like a two-hour movie, yeah, for back then two-hour movie was long and they did such a great job with it and the special effects were great. But there's a there's a very strong part of me that wants to think that going back in time to like right wrongs is wise and yeah, everything about that musical is like it is absolutely an outline back in time because you're gonna.
Speaker 2:It's literally anxiety from jump street. When you get back in time, it's like I'm stuck here, yeah, I can't get back, yeah. And then you meet your family, yeah, and then your mom falls in love with you and it just is not talking about froy. It all comes full circle. But nothing about it is wise. But there's something I feel like in my mind that is like no, but you could write so many things or you could write wrongs or something, but it's just not that wise. No, it's just not a wise decision.
Speaker 1:I know everybody wants to or dreams of that, and then it's like you go back there and you're like I can't google anything you know. Like it's like oh, my mom fell in love with me, not good not great, yeah, not not what I was hoping my mom falls in love with me and she tries to get together with me what becomes of me.
Speaker 2:But is that it is the theme of back to the future, because Marty ends up cluing his mom into like don't drink anymore. He clues his dad into like you just have to, like try things and be a writer and you got to put your mind to it. So is it a thing of like we know better than our parents and he like reparented them and then their lives turned different. Is that what the theme of back to the future is, Other than don't ever go back?
Speaker 1:Yeah, don't ever do it.
Speaker 2:Because it's so. That's an interesting concept.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like, or is that just hindsight?
Speaker 2:Well, that's a thing, is it's like yeah?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I think that a lot. Yeah, it's like reparenting or is like is your wise mind basically an inner parent, a wise inner?
Speaker 2:parent, that's true, but not your parent.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely not your parent. Well, I think in the manifestation stuff they have you imagine what a magnetic parent they call. It would like do in a situation that your parent kind of like failed you, but then some people would call that just like a wise parent, what's a magnet.
Speaker 2:What does it mean by magnetic?
Speaker 1:It means like because magnetic, it's like if you're magnetic, it means like you're manifesting the things you want.
Speaker 2:Oh, you're attracting things. Yeah, exactly so it's like You're a magneto of a person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're a magneto person for all the things you want, but it's like your magnetic parent you could imagine is anyone. It's like what would they tell you? And your magnetic parent can even be like you. Imagine yourself in a younger place, but then your parent could be just like a current modern day version of you, going back in time to parent yourself, reparent. I guess there's back to the future in that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it could just be hindsight though.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it could be hindsight and ultimately it's like no one ever gets that.
Speaker 2:They didn't have to change the behavior, though, yeah.
Speaker 1:And I'm sure it would just generate all different kinds of problems. You know, like the second you fixed one, you'd have 80 other problems.
Speaker 2:I mean they made Back to the Future 2 and 3. I mean you can continue to make them of all of the ripples you make. Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know what's funny? I saw that movie young enough that it's like I have like just little scenes like burned in my mind, like when he's a peeping Tom.
Speaker 2:His dad.
Speaker 1:His dad burned in my mind, like when he's a peeping tom his dad, his dad, yes, yeah, that is like yes into my mind.
Speaker 2:and then that's what that actually what it what triggers? Right, because that's like crisping glover who's like? So the the actor. That's what triggers. Because instead of george mcfly getting hit by the car and then him meeting his eventual wife, marty mcly gets hit by the car, and then what do they call that? The Florence Nightingale effect, because she takes care of him and then falls in love with her patient, or something like that. Isn't that what it's called? Do we have to fact check that? Josh, get that? No, I'm kidding we need to fact check.
Speaker 1:I know it's like the butterfly effect, but that's embarrassing.
Speaker 2:We have all of these people, so she was the founder of modern nursing.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay.
Speaker 1:And so I think it was the idea that, like if you're taking care of a patient, you end up like kind of like falling in love with them. Well, they apply this to parenting these days too, where it's like part of your love for your kid is just the act of caring for them engenders a deeper and more intense feeling of love. So, like dads who are away, or moms who are away, or, or you know, caregivers who are away all the time, it is harder for them to access their love for their children.
Speaker 2:So this is often a trope that is in popular culture, often portrayed in movies and television shows. So it's a term often used to describe the development of romantic feelings by a caregiver towards the patient. So, freud, back to the Future, full Circle.
Speaker 1:It's all related, yeah, so Back to the Future, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's just not wise. Yeah, a mess with time travel is just not wise. I should know that, but there's a very strong part of me that thinks there's going to be something good that comes from this, or I need to get back there and change this.
Speaker 1:I need to get back there and change. I need to not have made that decision Right, yeah, which?
Speaker 2:how many people have we worked with clients, patients, whatever that they're stuck in, that Like, had I only made this decision, had I only done things differently, my life wouldn't be where it is right now. I mean, that's a huge stuck point for all of us as humans right, totally.
Speaker 1:But it's like how do we work within that Right? Well, but that then brings up another concept that I think is like a sister concept to wise mind, which is radical acceptance. Yes, which is like the present moment, turning of your mind to accept like what is right. That's what morning mcfly needed to radically accept. Yeah, I'm here. But you know what complicated. What was complicated for him was like christopher lloyd, as charismatic as he is getting you in that delorean, you're like where are we going? I'm getting in here.
Speaker 2:I love christopher, yeah he's great, he is amazing and he, you know, in the if there was one critique I had about the musical, it's not even a critique because the person who played doc brown was so great. Yeah, it's just. Christopher lloyd is just so next level amazing. I just want it to be him, you know, because he's just, oh, he's incredible embarrassing is that the?
Speaker 1:is that the dinner timer? No one my text wants it to. I'll turn it off, let me turn off that.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, he's just so. It's just amazing in that role. So many great lines, the way he delivers it, the energy is just. He's incredible. I mean, everybody was great in that movie, yeah that's a great movie.
Speaker 1:Someone else I think was supposed to be the michael j fox role yes, you're right, it was supposed to be, um, jason bateman.
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, you're right, it was supposed to be Jason Bateman. I'm pretty sure they started filming it. There's like images of him in that classic outfit, like the jean jacket with the life vest, and I'm pretty sure there's images of him Like they filmed some stuff, or at least, maybe like uh and Josh I don't know more about this Uh, maybe like principal photography or maybe something like that, where they like had him and they were going to have him be.
Speaker 1:I don't know what happened, obviously, but it was right on Michael J Fox's coattails because he was Teen Wolf 2 also, which?
Speaker 2:is crazy. Maybe not the best movie, I mean, I know, which is interesting, because who was in the first Teen Wolf? Michael J Fox.
Speaker 1:Michael J Fox yeah, he was clipping at his heels.
Speaker 2:What I didn't understand about Teen Wolf 2 is why was it about boxing, was it?
Speaker 1:I'll admit I haven't seen it, but I am aware that.
Speaker 2:Jason made it. See, that's going to be a lot. I admit I didn't read the article, but we're gonna talk about yeah, I admit that's gonna be my middle name no, that is my middle name, because I'll be like sarah.
Speaker 2:Did you my wife sarah? I'll be like, hey, did you see that article about this? And literally what I'm saying is did you see the title of that article? Because she'll be like oh, what did it say? I'll be like I don't know, I didn't read it, it was on my news yeah, yeah, like, yeah I just knew it's weird. No, but the second teen wolf, he's on the boxing team.
Speaker 1:Wow, because is it basketball in the first movie?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, was boxing? Did that become a like? Was that popular? Was this like the Mike Tyson of it all? Muhammad.
Speaker 1:Ali.
Speaker 2:No, it wasn't that long ago, I don't think it was that old, but yeah, I don't think it was Muhammad Ali. Is this just the portion where we name boxers yeah, we just name random. No, I think that was always something that stuck with me, even when I was a kid and saw Teen Wolf 2. I was like why?
Speaker 1:is this about boxing.
Speaker 2:This doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1:They just like took it in a new direction. They went somewhere. First pitch in the room. You know what the kids love boxing right now yeah. Well, so Jason Bateman podcast giant, right, he has one with his friends right, smartbox.
Speaker 2:He has one with his friends right yeah. Who are the people in the podcast?
Speaker 1:It's Jason Bateman.
Speaker 2:Will Arnett.
Speaker 1:Will Arnett. I love Will Arnett's voice.
Speaker 2:Sean Hayes, will Arnett has top three voices. I wish I had. Yeah, he's a voiceover actor too right, I know he was the Lego Batman, I think.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 2:I thought that when the Lego movies came out, the when the lego movies came out, he was the original one, and then batman did an offshoot. Wow, he just has such a great voice. Good for him. I love his voice. And who's the next?
Speaker 1:person. The third, sean hayes. Um is he chicago will and grace. Uh, I think he did a lot of like theater in chicago maybe okay maybe that's what it is. I also might be making this up, but I think, right, I think he's into theater, we don't have to fact check anything. Yeah, I mean, he might be like a new york guy, but, but the podcast is very good, is it? Um, yeah, I don't think we'll ever be able to like touch it with a 10-foot pole, but one can dream um they're our first guests?
Speaker 2:yeah, we are, we're gonna cross pollinate with them.
Speaker 1:Talk about t-wolf too, t-wolf.
Speaker 2:oh, I would love to understand the boxing yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm obsessed with it. I want to know Whose idea was that. It's like some producer who was like doing it as a workout. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And he was like let's get this in here. Jason Bateman's been around for a long time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he was a child actor.
Speaker 2:Teen actor yeah, and just has been great.
Speaker 1:Oh, he's aging like a fine wine, yeah well, maybe we can even I almost think like talk about why is mine even in podcasts? Maybe one episode will listen to one of their podcasts. Break it down, break it down, break it down. And then, as far as my pop culture, yeah, consumption. Lately, josh, my fiance and I our producer went to see um trap, the new m night shambhala movie with josh hartnett and where he playsa psychopath josh hartnett is a psycho, yeah, he plays.
Speaker 1:He's like a mix of like a dorky dad and a psychopath. Josh hartnett yeah, he's like back in movies. He's back. Well, josh and my josh and I were wondering why he's back. Side Sidebar Josh met Josh Hartman when he worked as a production assistant on one of his movies, and it's apparently lovely Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I made him laugh I had to go to the bathroom and I said something with regard to that. I wish I remember exactly what I said and he laughed. So welcome Josh to the podcast. Welcome Josh to. I said and he left yeah, so that's my. So welcome Josh to the podcast.
Speaker 1:Welcome, josh, to the pod, that's sweet yeah what I don't understand.
Speaker 2:So he's been like nowhere. I mean not that I have my finger on the pulse of like every actor, but like he's been nowhere.
Speaker 1:You know why I think he might be back in movies.
Speaker 2:Why we you back in?
Speaker 1:movies, why we just postulated this the other day. He has four kids, so I think his life might be getting expensive and he lives in la.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I think he's back it's funny because my mind went to oh, maybe his life is settling down, because maybe they're getting older and now he can be back in the movies or something possible.
Speaker 1:I think the oldest one is like 12 or something.
Speaker 2:He was talking about on an interview I remember I think I was in high school when, like all of most girls in high school at that point, most people were pretty gaga over him because he was in like a Halloween movie like H2O or something like that, Was he? They've made so many of those movies that it's like which one was that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it was like he had the hair like over his face a little bit and yeah, well, wait, wait so that not to ruin it, right, but did you feel like, whatever the I'm guessing the m night shamalan reveal, there's some reveal at the end? Yeah, did it feel forced? Did it feel?
Speaker 1:what's there?
Speaker 2:not. Why wise did it feel? Because isn't that his we like?
Speaker 1:it's his thing, so he well, if we think about his other movies, they're very like hit or miss as to whether people think they're like ridiculous or good Right, they're like polarizing. This one, weirdly, is I don't think it's going to be like polarizing, I think it's kind of like straight across the plate like a good movie. Okay, so there's not a reveal at the end really Not really Okay, no, Maybe he's getting away from that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, maybe he is. I feel like that was his calling card for a while and he almost played it too much. Or like Josh this Josh was saying he'll kind of sometimes like not land the ending so much, but maybe that's almost like over time we've realized that that's a meta choice. Like is everything like that.
Speaker 2:Or like the ending.
Speaker 1:More being dragged towards something is where the beauty is, versus, like any kind of perfect destination. What was the theater? Experience like it was good, yeah, seeing it in theater yeah, I love going to the theater. I go, but I try to go, I try to go by myself once a week. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Do you? I try to.
Speaker 1:That's so fun.
Speaker 2:That's like a self-care thing is because I got away from it. I've always loved movies. I got away from it when my kids were so young, just like it's hard, and so every once in a while we'd go to like a kid's movie. But I was like you know what? This? Probably for a year now. I was like this year I really want to like go back to the theater just by me. I love going to the movie by myself.
Speaker 2:The only problem with it from my perspective is that you don't have anybody to process it with. Yeah, so what I find is that I'm almost creepily at the end of the movie maybe not wise hovering around, hovering around other people's hovering around, hovering around other people's conversations outside the theater, just so I can ear hustle a little bit to hear what they cause. I can't go home and like talk to anybody about it, you know, and as a therapist, obviously we want to process things to death. Um, so sometimes I'll just kind of be like pretending I'm like waiting for a phone call or I'm like a text, or like I'm waiting for my Uber, and then I'm like listening in on other people's conversations. That, to me, is the only downside of it, but I love being in a theater by myself, I know, I know I love it.
Speaker 1:What's the last thing you saw in theater?
Speaker 2:The last thing I saw in the theater was a movie about I can't think of the name of it right now, but it was a movie about um, a struggling standup who has an autistic son and he and his wife are divorced and so they're trying to co-parent and he ends up kind of like taking this son. It's kind of like he has this gig in California that he needs to get to. It's actually, I think, like the Kimmel show and he takes his son on this like road trip, and so it kind of had this flair of like Rain man a little bit. Have you ever seen Rain man? Yeah, where you know, tom Cruise, dustin Hoffman go on the road trip and they kind of connect in that way.
Speaker 2:So it kind of had to me that was kind of the flair of it. But um, yeah, he's struggling comedian and he's got to like take his son with him. He kind of like almost like kidnaps him a little bit, and so it's kind of like his relationship with his son while he's trying to like yeah I mean, it was like the name of the child and I can't think of it right now, but um, but yeah, it was good.
Speaker 2:That's fun, I know I was debating about going to deadpool and wolverine but I know my mom's trying to get us to go to that.
Speaker 1:I haven't gone yet but we haven't gone. I'm not super into the Marvel at all. I don't think I'm anti, but I'm not anti. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But you know I'll see one every once in a while. Right, I saw Iron man the original. Oh, that's a great movie. I mean Robert Downey Jr, an interesting person relative to the concept of a wise mind, for sure you know, and talking about somebody who's evolved it would appear from an outsider's perspective. Yeah, Like he's really gone through some evolution Totally as a person.
Speaker 1:You know, yeah, yeah. Well, this is good. I think we're going to have a lot of pop culture. If you're going to the movies, if you're trying to go once a week, we go a lot and we consume inordinate media.
Speaker 2:All right, Fact check it was. It's called Ezra 2023. Ezra Yep. The film follows a father and a son on a cross country road trip, delving into their complex relationship and the challenges of raising a child with autism wow, yes, and what theater was it playing? In, so I usually try to go to the century cinema oh, the landmark or the landmark. Yeah cool I love that one which is great, you know.
Speaker 2:What I really like, too, is like you can see how many people are in the theater now, because you can reserve your seats, yeah, so you can see how full it's gonna be yeah, how many people's combos you're gonna be able to eavesdrop? Because then it's like, if you can, see that, yeah, you can know how many people you creep out. Yeah, 100. No, you can see like, well, there's only one seat available and it's like a terrible seat, like I'll just wait for the next show.
Speaker 1:Oh my god, you know what I? I did that once. I went to see molly's.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, Molly's game. Wait, is that is that about? Like, what is that about?
Speaker 1:That's. It's an Aaron Sorkin movie. It's about Aaron Sorkin. Yeah, he's great. Um, sometimes he doesn't write female characters. Jessica Chastain is in it. Yeah, I love her yeah. She's great, but I was truly. You know, if you picture like the front row of a movie theater, yes, I was like the last seat of the front row, oh good.
Speaker 2:I mean my neck hurt for a week. Yeah, I couldn't sleep. Chiropractor, massage therapist.
Speaker 1:Because there were also those seats that recline. Yes, so it was like reclining and then kind of being like it was a nightmare, but the movie was very good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the movie was very good. Yeah, I don't like going to a movie feeling like I have to move my head to see everything on the screen. That's just tough. Yeah, yeah, that's a tough sell Totally.
Speaker 1:But so this is good. Okay, we're going to have a lot of media, we're going to have some guests. We've already thought of a couple people. We want to hear their relationship to Wise Mind in their practices.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And just to wise mind in their practices and just wisdom in general. Wisdom in general is what we're going to go for. So, yeah, I mean that's. That's really what we're going to cover in the podcast I love it and some of our segments that we've thought of, we may add to this or tweak this a bit but this idea of wise pairings, which is sort of your brain child.
Speaker 2:Just wise pairings in the idea that maybe there are things that we have been programmed or told that are like, yeah, these things just go together. It's a wise pairing. And is it really wise? Yeah, I don't know. We're gonna break it down and there might be some hot takes there yeah because some of us may feel like strongly it is a wise pairing, some of us may not. Yeah, hopefully we can get into it hopefully we disagree on.
Speaker 1:Some of us may feel like, strongly it is a wise pairing, some of us may not. Yeah, hopefully we can get into it. Hopefully we disagree on some of these, because I think it'll be interesting Well we're definitely going to disagree on some of these, there's no chance.
Speaker 2:Having shared an office with you, I know we are going to disagree on some of these wise pairings that we have For sure.
Speaker 1:So wise pairings and then just generally like certain things, like are they wise? Are they wise? You know decisions, maybe like events in you know the news. Whatever decisions, yes, things around us, yeah, is it wise um, I think also.
Speaker 2:I think there's the vulnerability that we want to be you, you know, human in this. We're therapists. We're humans, though, right, and we're trying to navigate this stuff just as much as anybody else. We have not cornered the market on knowing what's best for anybody. It's just kind of like we're human people struggling just as much as everybody we work with is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think we're raising more questions than we're answering a hundred percent. Yeah, yeah, and, like you know, we as speaking of us being human. You know we may check in and have a weekend, be like how often did you think about wise mind? Did it come up? Probably a lot of times I'm going to be like, oh, didn't think about it at all, did it? Didn't cross my mind one bit, yeah, so that's gonna happen.
Speaker 1:I was sailing in the emotion mind all week and it was raging and everyone I came across right, yeah, yeah. So yeah, that's really what we want to do with this I love it. This was fun kelly yeah, this was so fun. This is great. I think we're off to a good start and, yeah, if you want to find either of us, I have a website kkpsychotherapycom with just more info on me, and if you want to work with me, I'm there and John maybe has a website forthcoming.
Speaker 2:Forthcoming. I've never been. Well, maybe this could launch into the next episode. I've never been on social media my entire life. Wow, so I have nothing.
Speaker 1:I can't direct anybody to anything.
Speaker 2:I am a human, though, and I do exist in the world. Um, but yeah, that might be forthcoming.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I can see what you feel comfortable with, but yeah, so that's us and we'll see you all next week. Next week, yeah Bye. Next week, yeah Bye. The wise mind happy hour podcast is for entertainment purposes only, not to be treated as medical advice. If you are struggling with your mental health, please seek medical attention or counseling.