The Wise Mind Happy Hour
Two therapists musing about the idea of an inner wise mind and how to connect with this psychic space in different contexts.
The Wise Mind Happy Hour
Wise Mind in the Holiday Chaos
Did YOU feel overwhelmed by the last holiday season? Because we definitely did. Join us as we share personal stories and strategies to maintain balance and well-being during this festive yet chaotic time. By embracing our "inner Grinch," we explore the importance of setting boundaries and prioritizing self-care during the holiday season.
- music by blanket forts -
okay, welcome to the wise mind. Happy hour yes, welcome, it's john kelly once again yeah, we're back and yeah, today we're talking about finding your wise mind in the holiday season, in your holiday experience yes, we're approaching that season, we're actually in it. Yeah, so even if this doesn't come out right at the holiday, season which maybe it will. Maybe we'll reorder things a little bit, but we are approaching the holiday season. Yes, having just had one Thanksgiving and now we're approaching other holidays, a couple others Hanukkah, christmas, solstice, kwanzaa, I believe, is around now.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah anything else New Year's, new Year's, yeah.
Speaker 3:We also had Diwali.
Speaker 2:Diwali, yes, which passed as well, so just a very busy season. Yeah, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 3:Just a very busy season around here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, well, just just a very busy season around here. Yeah, yeah, well, yeah, so first maybe we'll just check in more generally with the vibes today. So yeah, how are you, how are you feeling today?
Speaker 3:pretty good. Uh, yeah, overwhelmed. I think I'm overwhelmed because we just came off the holiday and then we have other holidays coming up which I feel like are approaching very quickly yeah, what is your post-holiday overwhelm like? It is. I think it's getting to a new, or not a new, but just back to normal I think it's chaotic with kids and I've mentioned probably in every episode that I have children but having them be kind of out of sync and also kids now get off the entire week of Thanksgiving.
Speaker 1:I heard that. Yeah, I have a couple kinds of teachers, which that's just you know like did you have that? No, we, I remember, because I used to cherish time off so much in grade school we had, I believe, like maybe half day Tuesday.
Speaker 3:You had half day Tuesday. Well, you're younger than me.
Speaker 1:Maybe I made that up, I had.
Speaker 3:Thursday, Friday. I think and maybe Wednesday, I think. As I was getting older they were like trending into like a half day on Wednesday or something like that.
Speaker 1:Actually, I think you're right. I think I literally went to school all day Wednesday. No, I don't think I had a half day, I think I just made that. Yeah, full day.
Speaker 3:Now they're just like sure take the whole week.
Speaker 1:Why not Go to Bahamas?
Speaker 3:Which is again that's kind of like a scheduling thing, where it's like it's nice in the sense of like, oh great, you have this week off with your kids, but you also are a working person.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you have to figure out childcare, yeah, and childcare can be expensive and things like that. So I think it disrupts, um, you know, just the schedule. Overall. It's really nice to have that time off and we did a lot of fun stuff, but then getting back to the like the monday, yeah, was a little bit tough and getting them back into like integrated into like school and even just like the pickup schedules and all that yeah, did you end up taking the week?
Speaker 3:I took off monday, wednesday and then of course we were off thursday for thanksgiving, so I was working on tuesday and friday so friday yeah, so sarah and I kind of like flip-flopped a little bit with, like, the days off. Which was nice Monday, I took my boys volunteering, so we went and volunteered for a couple hours we were sorting clothes for people in need, which was really great.
Speaker 2:And then we went out and got lunch. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And then Tuesday, I worked. They went bowling with their grandparents, which they had a great time.
Speaker 1:Nice.
Speaker 3:Wednesday was a field museum day. It was a free day at the field museum, which was great, and it actually wasn't that busy. And then, uh, yeah, thursday was thanksgiving and sarah took them to wicked yeah, which they loved oh nice yeah and then friday they went to a DePaul basketball game.
Speaker 1:Oh fun, so they had like a week full of a lot of stuff, but it was also like exhausting yeah, totally. Fun and exhausting. That's so fun, I love that you took them volunteering, that's so something my mom would have had to do yes, the first time, I think Sarah took Wes, our oldest son, volunteering.
Speaker 3:It was maybe a couple of years ago and he's done it a couple of times, but this is the first time I did it with him and Shane and it was good. It was really, really nice. There were a lot of other families there and, yeah, it was just important. I think they're at an age now where I feel like maybe there's a little bit better understanding of why that's's so important to like dedicate your time and things like that, and I haven't done it in a while.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I haven't done it forever.
Speaker 3:So it was nice to do that, especially around this season, I guess. Yeah, the things that you're trying to because they're going to be getting a lot and you know, a lot of things and also like what are we grateful for and you know a lot of things and also like what are we grateful?
Speaker 1:for and you know those types of things. Yeah, yeah, that's another like difficult wise mind dilemma yeah Like the commerciality receiving of gifts. And yeah, I know.
Speaker 3:Well, and I think we're trying to trend into we've talked about this before, but like the experience versus like the things. Yeah this before, but like the experience versus like the things, yeah, so like how can we maybe have, if people do want to give us or the children gifts? Like how can we get them to be a little bit more like experiences versus just like?
Speaker 3:yeah, items right so, yeah, just trying to recalibrate, but now it's like slam-packed at their school with like there's a holiday fair and yeah, there's going to be a band recital because my oldest is in band what does it play? Saxophone. I know it's great and uh cool, yeah, and so they had this.
Speaker 1:They have these, like you know, this holiday fair, and then they, they have the band and you know they have these different things going on, which is really fun, but it feels like it's not just school, it's like yeah, well, when kids get to your kid's age school is like this behemoth thing they're like always at for like random stuff. It's busy, I know yeah.
Speaker 3:And they're not even in as many things as like other kids, which is fine, but it's like whoa, like, and basketball's starting. It's basketball season as well, so like it's just going to be like very busy. But anyway, how are you feeling post? How are you reintegrating?
Speaker 1:Reintegrating.
Speaker 3:Reentry that's the word I was looking for reentry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, reentry into normal life? Yeah, that's a good question, I think. Well, it's funny, I've had some stressors recently that were not Thanksgiving-related or holiday-related, with like all the like restarting things of the new year, like my medical insurance, and like I had some stress with that and I'll go ahead and say didn't handle it so well at the beginning but I think it did actually lead me to which we'll talk about later like I consulted some like spiritual guidance on it and it did really help me and helped me like way beyond the issue itself kind of more in general. But, yeah, like I'm feeling, even going into the holiday I was telling Josh this like feeling really unsettled and like struggling to really know why. Like I'm thinking that there are a lot of things hanging over my head and this like planning of a wedding. I'm not doing well with the concept of all the things hanging over my head.
Speaker 1:It feels like very messy and like just like unclean and like there's like very mysterious, like guilt, all the time. And yeah, I was feeling a kind of going into the holiday and yeah, like going, I was going to stay with Josh's family and and yeah, just feeling worried about like an extended time of kind of like not being in control of my schedule and my routine and my you know, diva shower time that I love and like all the things that I like, really cherish, yeah, not.
Speaker 1:I felt a little like, oh no, I'm not'm going to feel a bit out of my element.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:Even though I really do love Josh's family and they're so great Kind of feeling. Like you know, I don't always wear it on my sleeve, but I really am kind of obsessed with control. Obsessed with control and do really like to feel like I have autonomy or really like to feel like I could fully be my most authentic self. And sometimes it's like I struggle when I'm like staying at someone's house to do that and really feel like the, the spaciousness of being myself, um so like, and and we had such a lovely time on the actual holiday. But yeah, it was like some of that that I was afraid of did come up and and yeah, just like I'm coming off of that and like I'm all you know, I'm always trying to like learn from it and kind of find what like, learn from it and kind of find what, what does it mean?
Speaker 1:Or like. In what way was I tested as a means of like, fortifying my self worth, my wise mind, and I think it was like you do think it was like a bit of a test of my self worth in terms of like. Can you be authentic, even though it's hard in this space, Can you go against the grain? Be more direct?
Speaker 1:you know, be whole, you know like because I I think, I don't, I really can like try to like be a people pleaser, and then it's only very much on the surface and then when I'm by myself, I'm like why can't I be myself, you know?
Speaker 3:and I think, yeah, that was like tough, so like coming back, I was like happy to come back to work in some ways but then also feeling a little like out to sea at the beginning of this week well, I think there's so much that is, whether you're like hosting or traveling, it just doesn't feel like grounded, like it's just you're not, you're already. I feel like it's already like a level.
Speaker 1:You're leveled up and like for me, like of being heightened yeah like, even if it's only one notch, it's still like a notch where it's like that becomes your baseline, because if you're hosting let's say, people are in your space or you're having people over or you're preparing for that- yeah which that can be disorienting yeah and then if you're not in your space, certainly that creates also like a notch or a couple of notches of like I just I'm already heightened going into this because I'm not in my space, right now, yeah, right and like we like god bless, but we both josh and I, worked all day till six, then got in the car and drove five hours and got there at about one in the morning. There were seven people there to greet us at one in the morning.
Speaker 1:We're like bleary-eyed like I just want to go straight to bed and and it's like stuff like that, like I can kind of get to where I'm, like, literally, I can feel like a ringing in my ears, like I need to be alone.
Speaker 3:Yeah, unconscious in the bed, you know, but there's this excitement of your arriving, and so there's like it's all good.
Speaker 1:It's like welcoming it's warm, it's so great.
Speaker 3:So then there's an inner battle of like you're ungrateful, you're being not gracious.
Speaker 1:What's the matter with you? And then another part of me that's like you're exhausted, right, like you are exhausted, so it's like you need to be having fun, yeah but this is all fun and you're like all fun. Why doesn't it feel fun like? Why do I not?
Speaker 1:having fun right now like streaming tears yeah, it's like it's just a little bit tough and I think that that you kind of like nailed it where it's like I'm exhausted, I'm overwhelmed, I have these like personal needs and then everyone's like showering me with so much like welcome and kindness right so like to set a boundary around that feel you, feel shitty you feel like I'm a Grinch you know, like and I.
Speaker 1:I think it's like everybody probably has to embrace a bit of their inner Grinch and just like, let that go. And here's another thing that I'm going to sound so annoying when I say this, but like, maybe this is sort of a manifestor thing, because I like need to be the one who like guides the way of what we do, whatever as a manifestor. But sitting around watching football for hours is my version of the seventh circle of hell. I really hate football so much. And we not only had, like the Detroit lions play the bears, so also I'm surrounded by lions fans and like I you know I'm not a football fan, but like my family or bears fans like I was steeped in that.
Speaker 1:So, obviously like rooting for the bears, also not even liking football, so like, surrounded by like really intense football fans wanting to watch the whole time. And then was the Michigan, ohio state game.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah.
Speaker 1:Two. Was that two days in a row, josh or no? There was a day in the middle. I think we had a break. There was a day in the middle.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so this is good, because we're just going to disenfranchise all of our football fans that listen to our podcast because Kelly's a hater.
Speaker 1:My heart goes out. No, I'm sure there's things, and the way that the Bears lost was pretty epic. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but yeah, I forget what happened.
Speaker 3:Well, it's probably better that way. Yeah, no football. I mean, there's only so much of that which I can tolerate. That because I like it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you like football, but it.
Speaker 3:Also. There's a level of it where it's like we gotta get out of the house, like yeah like I can't do, we can't be in inside. It's like being cooped up for so long yeah like just not doing anything. Yeah, and there's a version of that. If you're watching something you like, that maybe is yeah enjoyable, but like especially. I can only imagine if it was like. I don't know for me if it was. I'm trying to think of something that, if it was on, do you like?
Speaker 1:golf. You would like that. No, I mean, that's a good, I guess, comparison, because I have uncles who will put that on for hours.
Speaker 3:I mean probably if it was just like a day-long thing of reality shows, I would probably be like that would be my hell would be like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'd be okay with that. A bunch of right, exactly to each their own right. But I, I guess I'm trying to like imagine like, yeah, I'd be like scratching my eyes out, like I would be like we need to take a break from this. I can't with this, yeah, I can't. It's just too much. Yeah, and like I really don't like it and I think it's like, yeah, it like bothers me. I I shouldn't. It's like it's not just boring, like it kind of bothers me.
Speaker 3:So I think Like it bothers you that it's like the culture of it.
Speaker 1:I don't like it.
Speaker 3:The competitive oh, like the aggro.
Speaker 1:The aggro?
Speaker 3:I really don't like that, the cheering, the high fiving.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I said to Josh like this is just not spiritually fulfilling, it's like it's not a point of it. But I literally was like it's not spiritually fulfilling.
Speaker 3:You know that's such a great comment about just football and sports in general.
Speaker 1:It's just not spiritually fulfilling for me, but sometimes it's like I'll watch the Olympics and it does feel spiritually fulfilling.
Speaker 3:No, you're right, there's something like there's different, that's a different thing. Yeah, it's like a different thing that's like countries, that's like yeah, there's just so much more, there's storylines there.
Speaker 2:Not that there aren't in football, but like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's had us a different ethos, totally yeah, and yeah, I think and it's like football's probably at the top of that like ultra aggro, competitive, misogynist, because I think also women never having an opportunity to play it. Not that we should, but like having this thing, that's so popular that women are walled out of.
Speaker 3:Why would I be so engaged in?
Speaker 1:something I've never played.
Speaker 3:Yeah, speaking of that, as I'm cutting you off, yeah, one of the things that kind of would drive me nuts, whether it be like even growing up or now, would be that idea of like, oh well, the men are going to watch the football over here and the women are going to like, prepare the food and do the women thing. Yeah, like, that always is just like. This is really like not OK.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like what is what is that into this?
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly Right, and.
Speaker 1:I guess I could respond to that by being like I'm going to invest myself in football, but it's like I do feel allergic.
Speaker 3:Or we could invest ourselves in just not watching it and watch something else, or just not watch TV and like, actually like engage with our family.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like do something different ways Engage with our family. Yeah, like do something Different ways.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, we had a football on that first game, but then that was it, like we turned it off for the second game because we were approaching dinner and stuff like that. But I also like put out a puzzle so that if people didn't want to like engage with it there was like a puzzle on a different floor that had no TV that was on. So, like if people wanted to go downstairs they could just like do a jigsaw puzzle or listen to music yeah, yeah, like try to open it up so that it wasn't.
Speaker 1:It didn't feel like yeah, I like that now as you guys watch, yeah are there people that are like living and dying for the game?
Speaker 3:well, it depends on who's playing.
Speaker 1:We're packer fans so yeah, if packers are playing, would it be?
Speaker 3:um, it depends on the yes. Yeah, if I was with my family of origin, yeah, probably a lot more cheering loud, yeah, you know, possibly swearing so, like if I had traveled, if I traveled this Thanksgiving, but we ended up staying and hosting a little bit If I had traveled to Milwaukee, I probably, yeah, there would have been a lot more of that, but you know it was. There's cheering and we're invested, but not to the point of it. All depends on, like, who you're around.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when it comes to that, I was curious, like as we were watching what my dad was like doing with like his Bears fan.
Speaker 3:It was also my dad's birthday, so part of me was like your dad's birthday was on thanksgiving, on thanksgiving, yeah sometimes it falls on thanksgiving um but did he like?
Speaker 1:that. Well, of course he like can't give you a serious answer about it, which I love, bless his heart. He was like it's so nice that the whole country decided to observe my birthday make me a turkey yeah, yeah, um, but I think he doesn't mind, I think it's not the same thing as a christmas birthday honestly I wouldn't mind if my birthday were on thanksgiving because, like I, I have like a weird relationship with my birthday. So it's like if there was something else distracting everyone.
Speaker 3:That would be kind of nice, you'd always get a day off too. Yeah, yeah, you always get your birthday off. Yeah, I was always curious about that with people that like have their birthdays like fall on like a a holiday yeah, well, my cousin's a christmas baby and yeah, I know a few people that are christmas babies. Yeah, my grandfather, and you know he's in. He's in good health, which is great.
Speaker 3:Uh, his birthday is the day after christ, so his name is William, but he goes by Bill, so we call it Bill, miss. So we celebrate Christmas and then the following day we all get together, usually you know the people that are still around after Christmas and we celebrate Bill miss.
Speaker 1:That's nice. I like that, yeah. But that's kind of a rough birthday Cause everyone's like partied out, partied out yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean he's in his 90s, so I think he's okay with that.
Speaker 2:He's not really looking to ramp it up. He's like we're in your age, yeah. You know, maybe the one old-fashioned that he'll have that one, brandy old-fashioned.
Speaker 3:I love it, seltzer. No fruit, but yeah, that is one for the road. Yeah, or. You'll have a bloody if it's a morning.
Speaker 1:A little bloody. It's Billmas. Come on, it's Billmas, let loose.
Speaker 3:You gotta let loose in the Billmas, no, but yeah, I mean I think it's. I think that level of getting back to the level of like your baseline is not your baseline around the holidays, right? So it's like for myself. I'm heightened already and so things that I feel like maybe I would handle, cope with a little bit more wisely, that's a little bit, it's just harder to access that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is like it genuinely isn't. Like I think that really like messes with my equilibrium. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And the holidays bring up so much for other people too. So then you're also navigating what it's bringing up for others. Yeah, right, because I have family members right Like there's a lot of still like grief that's coming like loss, you know like family members who aren't here which is just sad, and we all deal with that in different ways. It is collective in a way, but also just like it's sad, and so there's that vibe. I feel like that can be going on as well I know it's.
Speaker 1:I watched this eckhart tolle youtube and then also like a ram das youtube. That was like related and youtube fed it to me. But it honestly really like got me back to my like center and my wise mind and I've been trying to remember it since, like which it would just be all of today um but it.
Speaker 1:I really started to and I it's funny because, like I was telling josh about it and I always have to do the eckhart tolle accent when I like quote him because it's so good he has, like I think he's from like Belgium maybe, but he's like you confuse your life situation with your life, and which means like in the book, because his book, the Power of Now, is like your life situation is.
Speaker 1:You know your job, your even even like your partner, your what you're wearing, like the you know the car you drive, like all these things are your life situation and you you'll think that's your life, but you know he's like the truth is like you are life itself and all that stuff isn't real you know, it's just like what's the forms are not real like, almost like that platonian, like the formless is all that's real and actually like.
Speaker 1:In my own emdr, this kind of came up in some of my anxiety around the election processing, some of that in emdr. I kind of got this like deep sense of like, like like a force, like bigger, frankly, than Trump, and it helped me feel like peace, like there's something a lot bigger than this and I think that video, too it's like it helped me really think like, yeah, I'm like really fused with my life situation, like my worry about this medical insurance and whether, like the plan is going to be the same this next year that it was this year. Like I'm really attaching my entire like worth and safety and everything to that and that's not real.
Speaker 1:You know, it's like, whatever that is, I'll live through it, like, and something about that, I, you, are life itself. Really, I was like that's the wise mind. It's like beneath everything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, does that resonate with?
Speaker 1:you at all.
Speaker 3:I think you have to think about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Is it like more of just the intuitive, like?
Speaker 1:I well, his whole thing is like presence, Like the state of being instead of the state of doing, is like where your vitality is. So it's like, and he argues, like anytime you truly contact the present moment, like there is no issue, like because you're kind of in the presence of God, like he brings it there.
Speaker 3:So maybe that's like if we're getting back to the holidays because there's so much like prep, like there's so much like not being present yeah because you're always thinking of like the next. I get, not you, but like. My experience is like okay, well, like what?
Speaker 3:what's the next thing, what's the next meal, what's the next like you like the holidays can really like take me out of, like being more present and even before we started recording, like talking about how my kids can be a nice anchor for that, because, yeah, they are so present and just enjoying for the most part.
Speaker 3:What like, whatever we're doing, because, they're just kids and they're like you know their world is like so many things are amazing to them that we've just gotten so used to that. That's like a refreshing way to kind of for me to get back to the present. But I feel like because the holidays are not for me sometimes just being because, it's always like, well then we got to do this. And what time do we? Are we eating and what's?
Speaker 3:got to get prepared and I feel like that is already set up. You're already like setting up roadblocks to being present or like stumbling blocks to being present totally, if I'm understanding that concept no, I think you're right.
Speaker 1:I actually think that's so true with the holidays, like, and even though we weren't hosting and it's also a time crunch too because, if you're traveling, it's like, well, we only have this amount of time, yeah Right.
Speaker 3:And so there's also like an internal, I feel like clock and pressure for certain people, where it's like we have to maximize, or even in the internal clock of like, when the fuck do I get to leave this?
Speaker 1:place.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes when the fuck do I get to leave this? Yes, yes, or you know when, you know, when you like.
Speaker 1:I feel like the internal clock of of that, like that could just add like pressure, anxiety, yeah or if you're like making a turkey anger and cooking, all these other timing the meal oh yeah, it really is like a recipe for not being present and I, I think we weren't hosting, we helped a bit with the prep, but like then I think it's like am I being that, like moving out of presence and like judging yourself, conceptualizing yourself. Like am I being helpful enough? Am I this like asshole who's just like eating and chilling?
Speaker 3:and Sitting around. Yeah like not Watching football.
Speaker 1:Watching football.
Speaker 2:That I love to do, kelly you're in your jersey with your face paint. I know you were foam finger I know you were yeah yeah it's like stop lying, really.
Speaker 1:yeah, like I secretly just love football. I like trying to throw everyone off the scent, um, but yeah, like I think it's really hard to find that. It's like so much. And even Josh has a ton of friends at home because he's from Michigan, yeah, and a lot of them still live there. I feel like my friends from here, I have, like Mia, like one friend, still living here.
Speaker 3:Wait, these are high school friends. High school friends yeah, summer middle school.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Michael, who we saw.
Speaker 3:He's elementary school.
Speaker 1:Or he's elementary school. Yeah, michael, who we saw, he's elementary school.
Speaker 3:This is not something that I ever engaged in, because I wasn't really that I think I know what you're going to ask.
Speaker 1:Do you Blackout Wednesday? No, no, no, blackout Wednesday, yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, no, of course, when you go home. Yeah, that's a big night to go out drinking. No, I feel like this was just something that just totally bypassed me. Was do your friends have like a turkey bowl football game?
Speaker 1:Oh, my cousins do that. Like a Friday morning or something like that my cousins do it on Thanksgiving Day or Thanksgiving Day. It's incredibly violent, even though it's touch.
Speaker 2:It's like all talk about aggro.
Speaker 3:It's crazy, but it's like a tradition of like high school or grade school friends that get together and then they play a football game.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:That's a that's a big thing. And the older they get, the more injured yeah, the more hamstrings are pulled. So that's not something that happened for you. No no turkey bowls. No turkey bowls, okay, because I feel like one was being played at my son's school, which is like two blocks from our house we which is like two blocks from our house.
Speaker 3:We like walked over on Thanksgiving yeah that's fun To just kind of like not watch them but just like get them out of the house and like people had, like you know, people came to watch this turkey bowl. That was happening.
Speaker 1:It was like young adults yeah.
Speaker 3:Like people are like drinking yeah and like, yeah, that was just something I just missed out on but. I was curious when you said high school friends, it was like wait, was this a turkey bowl situation?
Speaker 1:Well, we in our family now a lot of the people have gotten to they're like oh, there's so much pressure to play and I secretly hate playing. I'm afraid to get injured and I'm afraid to like both my brothers, like it's cold, everyone's too physical.
Speaker 3:It's like it sucks.
Speaker 2:And then when Josh came into, my life for the first thanksgiving.
Speaker 1:My cousin and I was like oh you have to meet my dad, so he's like the only question I have is is he coming to turkey bowl?
Speaker 3:I was like no he's not gonna be in turkey. Turkey bowl yeah, he's jewish. Yeah, he's jewish. Does the? And also too, now that I'm, because I'm looking at your christmas tree as we're recording like it's almost as if too, like the talk about being present. It's like thanksgiving is like you're already planning christmas like you're. The holidays are so like pre by the time, the holiday actual day is there yeah the, the commercial. Everything has just moved on already.
Speaker 1:Yeah well, black friday starts on like monday it's a week, it's not even it.
Speaker 3:That's another thing. Where it's like all of those are just a week Anyway we don't have to get into consumerism, but another way of not being present.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally yeah, I know it is a real challenge, I think, and it's like, here's the thing too, like Do we ever wait?
Speaker 3:do we ever talk about getting too rational?
Speaker 1:We're always talking about getting too emotional.
Speaker 3:I know, and I said at the beginning of this podcast that I feel like I lend myself more to that logical rational place you're kind of talking about that with like, focusing on like, do this organize?
Speaker 1:this plan this like that is a little of that concrete yeah, for sure, just execute.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, that makes, that makes sense. I gotta execute yeah yeah, like my family, I have to execute now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah by the end of it yeah yeah, yeah and I think, like, so I guess every once in a while I'll go there as a way to like cope with, like the intense emotions sure the control that you want. Yeah yeah, but it's hard to find that.
Speaker 3:Well, it's probably also context dependent, because if you're out of, the execution in your home is probably easier yeah because you're the one probably where I was, at least the one like this is the plan, this is the. So yeah, maybe I was leaning into that stuff when things were becoming a little bit chaotic. It was kind of like, okay, time for me to prep this or trying to be, you know like I needed to do something that felt productive, that felt like, um, there was a rhyme or reason to it.
Speaker 1:I guess yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, totally Sorry I cut you off, but I was just thinking to myself.
Speaker 1:I was like we're talking so emotional, yeah, around the holidays, which makes sense, yeah, but I was also thinking about a little bit more of like that rash. Well, I, I definitely have family where I can tell like that's how they relate to it it's like the rational yeah, it's like, cook the dishes, do the this like the right chairs or like the family member who's like you can't ever really like sit down and chat with them and connect.
Speaker 3:It's like they're just doing tasks they're doing tasks and like in a rational, I think I might be that family member sometimes yeah, my brother, yeah, like, I'm like straightening. Yeah, I'm like who needs what? Who exactly?
Speaker 2:who needs what Exactly? Who needs what yeah?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm constantly walking in the room, walking out of the room assessing folding blankets, even though Sarah's like, I'm using that. I'm using that.
Speaker 3:But you know what I'm asleep using that I'm literally under this blanket on our couch. I'm using it for warmth. Why are you folding it? Or she'll get up to go get get something and I'll fold it and she's like I'm coming right back and I'm like yeah, but it looks good for like two minutes. It'll like look really good folded like that I want it I don't want my home to be a disarray with blankets.
Speaker 1:but like that makes me think, like the folding of blankets someone's already using, it's like, is that rational or is that a deep emotional coping mechanism? Oh, it's deep, it's deep.
Speaker 3:My life.
Speaker 1:Sanity depends on the folding of this blanket.
Speaker 3:I got to fold it. I got to fold it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's kind of like no matter how much in disarray my room is, if I can just straighten out the comforter on my bed like my life would be better.
Speaker 1:Don't they say that in the army? It's like just make your bed.
Speaker 3:Oh, is that like the first thing they do in order to like motivate them? Yeah, they're sort of like feel like a piece of shit. Make your bed Because you're like accomplishing something.
Speaker 1:And I have to be like Josh made the bed already. Yeah, while I you really couldn't wait, you just had to do it. Yeah, the folding of the blanket is like I have to do it.
Speaker 2:That's like a metaphor for life it's like the folding of the blanket. You left this out. I don't care if you're coming back, it's getting folded, yeah yeah, yeah, it's like I.
Speaker 1:I was listening to a, of course, a podcast about thanksgiving, like it was a chef like giving thanksgiving advice, but it was like it went beyond food and one caller had asked like my. I think it was her mom, not her mother-in-law her mom wait, this podcast had callers.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they had people calling. I can't wait till we start having. Yeah, we, we gotta do that, yeah um, but she was like my.
Speaker 1:I'll make a whole thanksgiving, and my mom has this habit, when people are over at my house or her house or wherever she'll like, clear their plate after like 10 minutes oh, and she's like I really it's thanksgiving. I want people to like sit at the table enjoy and I was like, yeah, that's even that, like rational, like let's get out of here, yeah see, that's not my vibe.
Speaker 3:I do like being at the table, having the food out, like really like sitting down. And I think that that's something I've kind of come to miss, when you have like little littles, right, because like nobody's eating at the same time and I feel like now, my kids being nine and seven, I feel like I'm really making more effort and I think we do a pretty good job of this of like really trying to like sit.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Like all at the same time.
Speaker 1:And like we're going to eat dinner Each night. Try to Try to.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's good, that's really good, and I mean, you know, sometimes it's 10 minutes, depending on the meal. Sometimes it's a little bit longer, but really trying to have like that like dinner is a sit down, yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean that's the way I grew up as well where it was just like no questions asked.
Speaker 3:That's great. It was just like you're at the table.
Speaker 1:I yearn for that.
Speaker 3:You know you're at the table and that this is like dinner.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I feel like we got to a place where it was like someone's always at cross country till seven, yeah, and I, I don't think that's a, that's not, that's just life.
Speaker 2:Like I think that happens.
Speaker 1:I'm just trying to like there should be like one night or two nights where you do it. Whereas a family you're like come hell or high water we're doing this.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, well, and that to me is kind of like the, the. I mean, isn't that kind of the point sometimes of like the Thanksgiving is not the meal itself, but just like we're all going to sit down and this is going to be a moment for us as a family to like be, to be together, to be together. Yeah, I don't know, I guess in my mind, maybe that's a little bit yeah.
Speaker 1:No, I think that's nice An aspirational kind of like I.
Speaker 3:Inspirational kind of like I don't know, is that a Norman Rockwell type of thing?
Speaker 1:Yeah, kind of trope-y thing, yeah, but it would be nice.
Speaker 3:But it does feel nice, you know yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So I think it's like I definitely didn't feel in touch with my wise mind for most of the holiday.
Speaker 3:I'm trying to think if there were any moments I did feel that I'm sure there were there must have been a couple moments as josh stayed silent. No, I'm kidding.
Speaker 1:Well there was. There was one moment where I was like I'm being so crazy, like do you think I'm crazy? I said to josh I was. I was like just really emotional. It was like after that five hour drive. It was like two in the morning and I said to josh I was, I was like just really emotional, it was like after that five hour drive it was like two in the morning and I had to work the next morning well, who's gonna be?
Speaker 2:I mean who?
Speaker 1:and I was just like my ears were ringing and I was like I think, and josh, I'll tell this, I have so many stories on this podcast where I sound like absolutely unhinged, but josh like accidentally ripped a dry cleaning bag of mine and it was like it was like he ran over my cat, like I just like was like I lost it and how could you? And it was a total it was a total accident it was an accident, it was I. Obviously, in hindsight, I'm like able to wait, I don't understand.
Speaker 3:He ripped the bag, or you ripped your clothes, just the bag. And now I know, now I'm gonna be very careful with yours I just like the thin
Speaker 2:clear. It's like a plastic paper bag okay and I just wasn't happy.
Speaker 3:Okay, I mean I you got on me on the blanket, I'm gonna get on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yes that was my version of the blanket the blanket and I think I the next day. I was like do you think?
Speaker 1:I'm crazy like because I but I think it just was like hormonal and I was like just sleep deprived and I think just like feeling overwhelmed. And josh learned like pretty recently before that, that he had to work during a lot of the holiday and I kind of thought we were gonna have all the time off together and I was like pretty upset about that. And yeah, I just was like I got really emotional and I came down and I we were able to have like a nice discussion about it and I feel like and you always do a good job of this of like saying you know like we're learning, when one of us is like really emotional, really anxious or really sad or whatever, or like just like irritated, how to like come together and like learn from it.
Speaker 3:And and I think we definitely did so therein lies also the question of like. Does it have to be singular? Yeah coming to your wise mind, or can it be be a collaborative effort?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Because you were just saying I don't know if I was really that much in my wise mind but, especially in partnered relationships, maybe when you're in situations that can be really dysregulating.
Speaker 3:It's maybe more of an externalized wise mind where one of the partners can recalibrate the other one as opposed to because I think we are thinking of this, and rightfully so, in this podcast of just our internal kind of experience. But I also feel there's a lot of ways that and it doesn't have to be just partners, but just like in any relationship how it can be, like we can recalibrate with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think you're, I like that. I think you're right. I feel like DBT doesn't totally cover that but, I, think. I think that's real that sometimes an other that you really like love and trust.
Speaker 2:I mean honestly, I could, it could also sometimes be a stranger, but like someone can help you come back to yourself really.
Speaker 1:And you know actually Eckhart Tolle to bring him in again. He talks a lot about that, like if your partner is out of their wise mind or, like he would say, not conscious. What he says is basically in his way of talking. He says, like you just have to deeply see them. Yeah, like, see them in that place.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And kind of like they will find themselves again if you just see them there and it's like oh wow, that's like so simple, but I think that is really powerful.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean if I see Sarah just not getting heightened when I'm getting heightened.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is regulating Totally For me.
Speaker 3:Like even before we came, like my youngest son, he has asthma and he's been really like struggling kind of bad with like some asthma attacks.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And that to me really like sends me into like an anxious yeah, because he looks like he can't breathe. He looks like he's coughing so much like he's gonna like vomit and stuff like that and it just is like that to me and he's, you know, struggled with like asthma and breathing and things like that, and he's been in the hospital, you know. So like that really gets me going to the point of like the boys think I'm like angry yeah, but it's like I'm so intensely worried yeah, it's fear but it comes across as if I'm like, because I'm so serious, yeah, um, that is even before, you know, we came here.
Speaker 3:I picked the boys up from school today and they were playing outside and stuff and it's cold and so that kind of like activates the asthma. So when shane got home he was like coughing, coughing, you know, and and sarah Sarah was just like calm and cool and just like let's do the puffs, we'll just, you know, the albuterol, like whatever, like we'll just do it, and that, just like being around, that and her kind of seeing me. And I was trying to tell the boys like I'm not angry, like I'm not upset, I'm worried about you, you know, but I think they interpret my seriousness as like, yeah, dad's upset about this or like we're doing something wrong it's not okay and it's not okay and you know that type of thing, so you know her just being that like presence yeah, and
Speaker 3:also seeing me like that, but not just allowing me the space to like be worried, like that can be like really, for me that was very like okay, like, and I was able to come down from that and then like process it with the boys a little bit, and she did a great job because I was, of course, like talking to them like they're fucking adults, like I typically do where. I'm like trying to like tell them I'm like you know people, I'm a very, I'm a serious guy and sometimes people like can't read me.
Speaker 3:And you know Sarah's like guys. You know what dad means when he says like read you and Wes is like my oldest is like I think so. I mean it's kind of like, it's like it's so great to have her like, be like, you know and that's just something that's.
Speaker 3:It happened to me my entire life where it's like I just people have a hard time reading me yeah like they think I'm either upset at them or they think I'm not having a good time or I'm happy, and so he was like one of those moments where it's like when I get worried or anxious or fearful, I have a very serious like presence you know, and, and they, as children, don't know what to make of that of course. And so I think they internalize it as like something they're doing is upsetting me or being wrong. So anyway, long way around to kind of say like the externalized, like being seen.
Speaker 3:You don't even have to do anything, but like that can bring you, yeah, into that wise, back into that wise place yeah, totally.
Speaker 1:or even like the reverse too, like when and I think josh does a better job of this than I do when I'm freaking out If he just fully sees me there and is like holding that like the deep, like acknowledgement of where I am and allowing space for it from a different like his, from his own wise mind, is like ground.
Speaker 1:Even though if it doesn't happen instantly, it is like a grounding force and I almost think it's like I don't. Even though if it doesn't happen instantly, it is like, yeah, a grounding force, and I almost think it's like I don't even know. I'm sure this would probably be like a cartola, but it's that like idea of like we all share a soul essentially, so there is like that collective you could come together and find that and I, yeah, I think that's so true and like this is making me think like we also had like a decision about like visiting family. That came up and Josh and I ended up like deciding different things about it and he's gonna go to this family event and I'm not going to go, cause. Like I'm feeling like overwhelmed with, you know, travel and also feeling like the Christmas time is sort of like the time for my family you know each gets one holiday and like I kind of want to protect that and like be fully also have my own time in the Christmas holiday and get stuff done and prepare and whatever.
Speaker 1:And Josh ended up, you know, deciding like something else was meaningful to him.
Speaker 1:And I said to Josh, like it feels like I'm losing something and it feels kind of like a rejection, and I know it isn't that, but that's the feeling and I it's going to take me a minute to like kind of digest this feeling and like he did an amazing job of explaining it to me and being validating like also like talking about boundaries with the other people involved, like very wise-minded, and I had this like deep sense of knowing, like okay, I have to let this difference be here, allow it.
Speaker 1:And we did this like right before going to whole foods and as we're like walking around Whole Foods, I had this inner dialogue. I talked to my therapist about this like why does it feel so bad to be like gracious in this moment and give him that like? I felt like if I don't fucking flip out about this like or like by flip out I mean like speak up in kind of an edgy way I'm like this isn't right. There's something that felt so bad about letting it be, and I I talked to my therapist about it and she was like well, it's like sometimes anger, there is that impetus to like set an important boundary, like it isn't all bad, like it isn't, like the Zen state is always good, and I think I felt like, if I allow this, like I will always lose forever, and like we won't, he won't come in my direction oh, ever.
Speaker 1:So that narrative started popping in yeah, like you were forecasting, yeah kind of like if I don't force someone yeah to be on my side.
Speaker 1:They never will be yeah and it's like, well, there's like a ton of shadow and things to like look into from the past, you know, cause I know that isn't true. But there's like a part of me that really believes that, yeah, and felt like if I'm just like gracious and kind here, I'll just be like alone forever, you know, and like or be like small forever, you know, and like that felt really bad. But it's like another part of me really knowing like I know this is the right thing to do, know it and I hate it you know like I just hate this and like I feel really small yeah and yeah, like that.
Speaker 1:But even I think, like observing that was wise-minded, like seeing those different parts of me, like talking as I'm strolling the pasta aisle.
Speaker 3:You know like I feel like I don't want to be kind about this well, that was you, yeah, and also just like you again for my wanting to lean into, act right, like noticing all of those private events but not trying to escape them or control them by reacting in a way that could cause more conflict or just allowing those things to be there, right. And then acting in a way that is ultimately gracious value aligns.
Speaker 1:Yeah, do the thing that actually is like the authentic value you hold, yeah, do the thing that actually is like yeah, the authentic value you hold.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think so many things, and maybe the whole holiday thing, like the narrative that comes up is like I'm small For you that's, and sometimes even when people are really like kind and generous toward me sometimes it makes me feel small. It's weird, it's like I don't know. I feel disempowered, maybe, or like controlled or something, and I don't like that. I want to really be able to feel whole and then like, also like, receive things. I want to receive and receive and receive.
Speaker 3:Get stuff Money, money, money.
Speaker 1:But you know, it's like I just I do struggle with that, and then Christmas comes along.
Speaker 2:Here comes.
Speaker 3:Christmas.
Speaker 1:Receiving all of that and, like we'll be dealing with my family, which I'm sure you know, a bunch of things will come up there, you know, like for everyone.
Speaker 3:But what are you guys doing for christmas? We're gonna be yeah, we'll be with my family. You know we have a blended family, so we celebrate hanukkah and, yeah, christmas, um, but we'll mostly be with my family. So we'll travel to milwaukee. I think the kids will be up there for what we call a grandpa and grandma camp for a few days. So, we'll drop them off and Sarah and I will work a few days and then we'll go up there, but we'll probably spend the week up there.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm trying to think of like narratives that come up for me around the holidays, or even like Christmas, specifically.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I don't know. I feel like there's always a little bit of this feeling of that it's never what it was. Yeah, like it's just, like not, I don't know. It almost like reached an apex in my life where it was like this was the most fun christmas I ever had, or this was like the, the time in my life where the family was at its peak, or so I don't. That doesn't make any sense really, but like I don't know, it does to me like you had so many things change.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And and all like not not bad changes, but just like so many things change that there's just like so many different emotions now that come up with it, and some of them are like sadness, you know, the aging of people like myself, aging my kids getting older, like just all of it just is like there seems to be less of that euphoria around it and more of yeah, I don't know and maybe that's a just an indicator of, like you know, aging reality, wisdom like just kind of what it is holding, all of it.
Speaker 3:It's still fun, it's still, it still can be exciting.
Speaker 1:But yeah, like when I was young. I mean it was christmas and the block party in the summer, like the two things. It was like I'm born on these days like my life right yeah, yeah and yeah. Like an excitement I couldn't I like couldn't even tolerate going to sleep on christmas eve like I was so it.
Speaker 3:It's hard to generate that excitement as an adult.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 3:You know, there are some things that do generate that excitement.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But you knew that that was Pitchfork as Josh would say, pitchfork. Music Festival.
Speaker 1:Yeah 100% pitchfork, of course I know it's like the little kid feeling, that pure feeling.
Speaker 3:That pure.
Speaker 2:That's what it is, a childlike excitement.
Speaker 3:I think that's what it is. I think it's the mourning, the loss of that childlike innocence of excitement that maybe, as an adult, for me doesn't come to the fullness that it used to.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Because there are moments where you feel it and there's certainly moments when I see it through my kids yeah, like their experience reignites that in me with certain things. Yeah, if, because for years I was like a perfect example would have been like halloween. For years, halloween I was just like man, fuck this holiday, like I don't give a shit about me but, like them being invested has reignited, like Halloween's, a great holiday it's a great holiday.
Speaker 1:It's a fun holiday, you know.
Speaker 3:And so I think that that has reignited that fullness. You feel that euphoria, but it's just never to the extent, and that's fine, yeah, it's just I don't know, yeah, yeah, it's like maybe because we kind of carry so much else. Yeah.
Speaker 1:To like really tap into the purity of it would be.
Speaker 3:But I'm also wondering if maybe this year I need to be more intentional and just more present, like we've been talking about. Yeah, yeah, like, really make that an intention of like just be, yeah right and then, if I can just be with it more, instead of the planning, instead of the folding of the blankets yeah, totally just be just be like and just not to have an expectation, but just see what that would be like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I definitely want to do that and, like I just, even when I remember the idea of like life, first life situation, I feel freed. Like the minute I remember that idea, it's like none of this matters.
Speaker 2:Like yeah, it's so grounding for you.
Speaker 1:Totally when it's like.
Speaker 3:none of this matters, yeah, it's so grounding for you.
Speaker 1:Totally where it's like oh yeah, it's like there's something so much beyond this, like an essence that's more important to tap into. And, yeah, if you just be with whatever comes up, like there's richness there, literally, literally, no matter what it is, even if it is like a fight or a conflict or a relative invalidating you or something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like.
Speaker 1:And another thing, I don't know. It's like. This is like, basically, I think how Eckhart Tolle was saying, like how he, how one contacts the wise mind, essentially. But I was telling Josh this this morning. Oh, this morning we also found out we have to put our car, our beautiful, wonderful car that served us for so long, to rest.
Speaker 1:Oh no, the mechanic was basically leveled with us when we kind of asked and I was like what would you do with this car? And he's like I would trade it in. And I was kind of like, okay, so we finally reached this place.
Speaker 2:Is that your RAV? The RAV, oh the.
Speaker 3:RAV. I remember the.
Speaker 2:RAV the.
Speaker 1:RAV. Yeah, so he's like beautiful black.
Speaker 3:RAV.
Speaker 1:Beautiful black RAV my mom gave it to me when I graduated grad school. Stealthy. Yeah, yeah, it's a great.
Speaker 3:I mean they're great cars Toyota, you can drive them into the ground, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'll have you do the eulogy, because I think you could really, are we doing a burial at sea in Lake Michigan?
Speaker 3:Are we going to drive it off Montrose?
Speaker 2:Harbor. We're just going to like drive it in. Oh my God.
Speaker 3:Wow, you've had that car for a while, I know. I know we did have like some real stress of the holidays, or maybe it was a birthday where you were like I just want somebody to get my car fucking detailed. Yes, can somebody just get my car detailed?
Speaker 1:I wanted that so bad. Was it like a birthday or something like that? Yeah. Or a holiday? Yeah, maybe Because my mom Are you?
Speaker 3:remembering this or no?
Speaker 1:Yes, you remembering this or no? Maybe I'm remembering this. I'm laughing because I feel like I like, for a month, trick pony you were like talking about like getting your car detailed oh, because I asked you for a place. Oh yeah, and you told me nicole's husband nicole's husband had a great place yeah, but it
Speaker 3:was also like it's like not cheap right, he had like a fancy car.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I'd probably roll in with a toyota.
Speaker 3:They'd be like You'd be like sorry, next customer, it's not a.
Speaker 1:BMW, but yeah. So we were like on the way over there and Eckhart Tolle was saying, like when you like need to know something, it comes. But it comes from the spaciousness of not knowing. If you're like, with that, knowing comes, I really do feel like the wise mind. That's the same reason. What, like with clients, I'll always say like slow down. I'll usually have them kind of get into their body. And it's like what is here, what's coming up?
Speaker 2:around this issue, you're dealing with.
Speaker 1:And there's usually something yeah, like I have to go to mac's place or you know, it's like I have to say no to that well, that's all about right.
Speaker 3:That I mean, that's the contacting right, the present moment, noticing what's coming up, because then, if we can use that as content, yeah right, like we don't have to fuse with the content, because the content is probably going to lean us into those behaviors that we're either going to move away from this discomfort in a way that's not effective.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So can we sit with it a little bit longer, lean in and really make a more informed, wise mind, psychologically flexible decision? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:When you're comfortable with the not knowing, you're out of that control move place. You're out of that like ego protection yeah, you're not protecting your being, so then it's like you don't need to do those things that are out of line with the values and just protective. You can really be wise and I was like I like thinking of it, like be in the not knowing. I was even thinking about it with my clients today, like I have a bad habit of sometimes, when I read the previous note, going in kind of like okay, well, we're going to like pick up with this and it's like you don't know that, like you don't know what they will bring to this table.
Speaker 1:And it's so important for me to not have an agenda like to be aware of what they're working on, always aware of their goals, but to set those aside yeah those are like more floating in the background like trust that they're within and, like you, have to listen like what is here today?
Speaker 1:right and like stay with it before, just like I have to like help them fix it. And it definitely helped me today because, like a client who was really suffering was something really in a lot of pain that was so valid as any pain is, but, like you know, I was like I have to like be with them here before anything else and like not know how they're going to cope with this with them and then really a lot of times they find the knowing.
Speaker 1:you know when they really are there and not trying to get out of that place, they stay with it. Then it's like softly be here. What do you hear is next? And it's like I think I have to do X which totally happened.
Speaker 3:And yeah, a lot of intuition can come from that. A lot of wise-minded things can come from that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or a lot of wise-minded things can come from that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah Because you're not in the fight to just get rid of it, right? Right and even me in the fight to get rid of it. Yeah, exactly Because I need to be mishelful to them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think this whole past week I was like that was rolling around in my head and I was catching it, but it's like before I would start a session I would feel it like a you know, I hope I do the right stuff here, kind of, and it's like that's not even like. It's like it's listening and seeing, helping them see yeah and find their own values. Like, you're just kind of the container.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's a lot of just being right, which is hard I was struggling a lot with a patient recently in the past two weeks who was bringing up like a lot of like hypotheticals yeah and I kept like reframing it as like okay, is this something you're dealing with, or right is this, and it was more it was more of like no, like I'm just curious, like what other people think about this or this and that, and then you know.
Speaker 3:finally it was very direct and kind of like. You know, I think that this is just like interrupting your therapeutic process and gaining insight. I love to wax philosophically with you about these things and I'm noticing that this behavior is maybe taking you away from actually addressing the things that you're going through, yeah.
Speaker 3:Right, and it might've been a little rupture there. I'm not really sure, but you know, it's also like in those real moments, it's like I could have continued to just engage and that would have been me avoiding my own discomfort of like really addressing this in an honest and trying to be in a, you know, empathic way.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I think that's because I think I want to get away from my anxiety of like, oh, do I have the rapport to right, like say this to this person, is it going to come off this right? And so I'm just not going to say it like that would have been my escape or my control, but it was like you know what I really am just going to own this with you right now like this is taking away from you like I think getting more out of this, you know Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like you have to notice to them.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:Something that might be hard for them to like hear, but yeah, but also notice my own yeah.
Speaker 3:Fear around it and anxiety, and you know, are they going to like me? Yeah?
Speaker 1:Are they going to like me? Are they going to think I'm good?
Speaker 1:yeah, you know totally, because we're human too, and so those things come up yeah, I saw like a tiktok clip of a podcast where a woman was talking about someone who she said was like kind enough to be mean to her about something. Like tell her, yeah, give her like fearless kind of feedback. She's like man that really stays with you and someone's like kind enough to be mean to you and I was like that's such a good way to put it, it stays with you in the respect of like I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you appreciate it, Like you know what.
Speaker 3:That set me right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I was saying to Josh, like my therapist who I normally see regularly, Melissa is like the queen of that where it's like set you straight on something and it's like can hurt, but it's like I, man, I really need it to be pulled out of my own.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, I, I always I stole your phrase or one of your phrasings where you're like there's a version that you need, I need to hear this, or there's a version out.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, where this person needs to hear this feedback, right, or there's a world, a world. You always had that kind of like. If there was something that was said that was very direct, I always appreciated you trying to be like there's a version where I need to hear that, or there's a version where they need to hear that, and so can I lean in and say that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally.
Speaker 3:And that's really hard to do.
Speaker 1:Totally Very difficult, difficult, yeah, it is and there's no better time to do it than the holidays? No, yeah, I'm gonna get to the holidays left and right. Let's just give anyone who asks real direct feedback. Yeah, yeah, I mean there actually is like there I may need to do some of that not in that leg, let me tell you how it is, but like well, I think, with boundaries, probably with boundaries yeah, totally, where it's like what is actually?
Speaker 1:and it's funny because, like with this holiday, like my mom is hosting like my nieces for the week and you know, like my mom downsides like she has a uh, like a what, like a townhouse that's what you'd call it and you know, my brother has three kids him and his wife and Josh and me and my mom and her partner and potentially my younger brother and his girlfriend might all be sleeping and the Harlem Globetrotters Like, literally, I slept in a hallway one year A genuine hallway with a bed in it, with a bed.
Speaker 1:Even my mom put a bed there and it's like I mean, it's comical like the level, just like a mattress on the floor no, actually it was a bed. Oh interesting. But it was like, and of course, like around the holidays, you're getting sick.
Speaker 3:So I was like sick in a in a hallway josh will be in the car, yeah, yeah, it's like, just turn the heat on. Yeah, you'll be fine in the drive, you'll be, just be in the driveway. Yeah, but it's like, just turn the heat on. Yeah, you'll be fine in the drive, you'll be, just be in the driveway. Yeah, but it's like talk about like boundaries.
Speaker 1:I'm like there's some physical boundaries that are just be, and with the you know this with kids it's like there are no boundaries. There are no boundaries, they're just kind of like in your face, touching your face, like eating your plate of food like doing my knees. My knees sneezed into my makeup like literally she wanted to see what I was doing. I had like an open thing of like foundation that had like a glass jar with it all the way open, sneezed directly into it.
Speaker 2:I was like my kids cough in my mouth.
Speaker 3:Like they'll, like, they'll like be so close to me that all of a sudden they let out like a cough and it's in my mouth it's like, yeah, it's like insane.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're not covering their mouths.
Speaker 3:They're not.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, and they just like and they're so curious too about like and, of course, like that can be intrusive at times. Like, yeah.
Speaker 3:I thought you were going to say it, but I love that you said it's endearing, but also really it's both, absolutely yeah but it is endearing.
Speaker 1:It's so sweet to intrusive. Yeah, yeah, like what did sears just say? Like kelly has marker on her eyebrows, like because I like I filled them in with makeup, the way she just was. Like she told the room too, it wasn't like she was saying it to me, no, just to clear something up here.
Speaker 2:Just went and went. No, it's everything here.
Speaker 3:Yeah, she probably thought it was cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the way she said it.
Speaker 3:If anybody else wants a Sharpie, I think she has them in her backpack.
Speaker 1:Yeah, everyone's looking for their.
Speaker 3:Sharpies Maybe like a silver one in there too.
Speaker 1:Or like, and I one time we're just like kind of lovingly embracing, which we like always do, we like always like hugging each other, holding each other, and she was kind of like what?
Speaker 3:are you doing?
Speaker 1:like you know, like just like, yeah, you're supposed to hug me right oh yeah, 100 when my
Speaker 3:kids see me and sir, like hugging or whatever they're like, oh romance like that's what they say, Romance.
Speaker 2:They're like oh romance, that's so cute, oh romance.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but yeah it's like, but those boundaries, it's like they're intruded on, but like I think it bothers both of us less, because it's so understandable. It's like they're the kids and they're you know, and you can actually be more direct. It's like actually I need the space here.
Speaker 3:And then they're kind of like oh, and then they like forget about it. So how wise is it to engage in anti-aging?
Speaker 1:So, yeah, any effort toward aging backwards, anti-aging, not aging, yeah, that whole realm.
Speaker 3:So this is where I need clarification.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:Because I'm a dinosaur in a lot of ways.
Speaker 1:But you won't be soon if you engage in some anti-aging oh well, played um.
Speaker 3:So what I guess, like I need some clarification, is this to literally try to stop. I know, not literally, because you can't do this- yeah. But trying to stop looking older, you're stopping the aging process. You're trying to like put a pause on it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:This is not like wellness as you age. That's a different thing. So like my example.
Speaker 2:You can not pause and do it. Okay.
Speaker 3:So because, like I'm thinking about like picking up a new, different type of like exercise routine as you age, because that's just going to be healthier for you, yeah. It's not like anti-aging, necessarily, because you're not trying to stop the aging process but you're trying to be healthy as you age. I guess, I don't know, maybe I'm splitting hairs here?
Speaker 1:Well, no, but I think it's an interesting question you raise, because it's like where's the line? Okay and maybe a lot of people can easily draw the line at, like the superficial part, the like appearance, see the other my mind initially automatically goes to like cosmetic surgery, like yeah, well, that's, I think, trying not to look like you, you like, just you're basically looking 30, the rest of your life.
Speaker 3:that's the goal, is you're trying to like, look like that, but maybe I'm way off base here.
Speaker 1:No, I think I mean and here's the thing too it's like how many people that are arguing it's like it's about health and longevity secretly care more about the appearance I mean judgmentally.
Speaker 3:I think it's not wise at all.
Speaker 1:Okay, tell me. Well, I'm here for this.
Speaker 3:How do you? I mean, I just don't really know, you can't do it yeah.
Speaker 2:Next question Next question.
Speaker 3:End of podcast.
Speaker 1:Enjoy.
Speaker 3:No, I just like. You're going to age and the thing is there's so many examples of people that have maybe engaged in it, if I'm understanding this correctly, that end up on the back end looking just like nuts. Yeah, they just don't look Right. I'm trying to not say it in like a mean way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they look like a shell way, but they don't.
Speaker 3:They look like a shell of themselves. They're younger selves, and how many times do you see or hear Like if they you know, and even examples of people that have aged possibly we don't know, but naturally that look great Right. And yeah. I don't know. I guess there's such a vanity to it. Yeah, that it right, and yeah, I don't know, I guess there's such a vanity to it. Yeah, that it's like one you're never gonna. You're gonna age, yeah, and are you gonna end up aging and just looking like this fake plasticky?
Speaker 3:yeah but then again I don't know if it's just plastic surgery. So it's like that's why I'm like curious.
Speaker 1:well, yeah, maybe we have to think of it or like, at least like engage with the different parts of it. Because, like I'm like, engage with the different parts of it. Because, like I'm almost like and I'll admit that I think I'm sometimes to the extreme these days with Even pursuing wellness, like thinking that that's kind of bullshit to only and it's like that doesn't I'm like just eat like Skittles for every meal. Like I don't think that, but I also don't think anyone that's like unplugged from like diet culture and like wellness, like hyper life improvement culture, would would even choose to eat Skittles all day. Like I kind of believe, I really believe in like intuitive eating and I think, if you do that, that you will not crave like things that are non-nourishing all the time I think you will.
Speaker 1:You will gravitate toward things that support, support life, let's say. But it's like on the, on the less extreme end, they'll like try to look 30 right, like, oh my god, this guy looks 40 and he's 60. This guy looks whatever this woman, sure can you believe it? Yeah, like, oh my god, this guy looks 40 and he's 60. This guy looks whatever this woman, sure can you believe it? Yeah like oh my god, they've aged gracefully, or whatever the hell that means. It's like why is it not okay to show the age of the?
Speaker 3:whole that. I guess that's also is the thing like why? What is the problem with aging? Right but like where does that come from?
Speaker 1:yeah, maybe that's a deeper question we're getting into, like what is our fear with that? What is our judgment of that? I, yeah, I don't, I'm like if you really live and your body deteriorates like I mean it's like it's like sure I'm okay, but right.
Speaker 2:I went right to death anxiety yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean sure, I think there is a fear, anxiety level, of course, of everybody's mortality. I just don't, I guess, that is such a superficial way to think that that's not coming is the way that you look. Yeah, it's denial. So that to me, is where it's kind of like what like, just because you look a certain way doesn't mean you've stopped aging yeah right, or just because you look a certain way doesn't mean that the calendar doesn't continue to move to the next year and keep going.
Speaker 3:You know so yeah I guess it is just like maybe you look younger, you feel younger, you feel younger. Ignorance is bliss. A little bit Like I don't know. Yeah, again, I'm like probably not the person to be asking.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, maybe you are, though I think, because your perspective, like I, like the simplicity of that, where it's like these anti-aging efforts just simply won't take.
Speaker 3:So it's like or at least it's a band-aid for a while even if some of them make you look younger, yeah, so that's why I like maybe the. To me it's more like I wanted to know the difference, because I I think there is a lot of utility in thinking about how can I change what I'm doing, you know, because I turned 40 a couple years ago and it's like what are some, you know, having real like conversations?
Speaker 1:with my.
Speaker 3:PCP about like you know, like this isn't just a regular now yearly physical Like you know I hit an age now where it's like okay, can we forecast a little bit about like, how can I like do things now that are setting me up to just be healthy as I'm aging Right, not anti-aging, but just?
Speaker 2:like like, yeah, what are the things I could be doing? You know, that would be like what useful.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what did he say? Oh well, I mean, you know we talked about diet, less red meats, right, like you know a bunch of things and I'm not saying that to anybody out there, I'm not a medical, but you know doctor or anything like but like just certain things in my lifestyle I mean and that also sparked conversations with also my therapist and things like this where it was like I just want to make a really like big change in my life to just like see, like what would be a big change that would make me like feel like, I feel better and things like that, that. And that's when it was kind of like well, why don't we just like there's this whole sober cure, like why don't we just give up drinking for a while?
Speaker 1:yeah, and just like see what happens and you've been liking and I it was it was like I did.
Speaker 3:I was like, yeah, like I'll just do the 30, like everybody does, whatever, it is the sober, dry january or whatever like the. So we did it for 30 days and felt amazing. Sleep was amazing, like all those things and now it's like I I just don't drink anymore.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And it's like that is a life change that I don't miss it. I don't, I just feel better physically like all over, and so I feel like that's just a change where it's kind of like for me personally moving forward. Is that more about me just taking care of my health? It's not about anti-aging at all right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes sense. Well, yeah, because it's like you're definitely not trying to recapture your youth by not drinking, because it's like you're a girl. I'm just kidding, I'm kidding, I'm kidding.
Speaker 3:And 30s and late teens probably, so I was kicking a few back for quite a while, yeah.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I like that idea where it's like okay, so since your body is experiencing age, could you yeah, Cause I hit a milestone and I'm noticing like changes right, I don't have as much energy.
Speaker 2:I don't.
Speaker 3:So how can I like cultivate changes that I can make to not feel younger but feel more energized? Yeah, feel more support you as you age, support me as I age and also have young children and things like that. And so, yeah, there's like different things, right? Not having as much sugar right again I'm not a medical doctor but like yeah, that's also been like a big thing of like limiting sugar intake for myself has been helpful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, the whole anti-aging thing to me is I yeah, maybe it's not that simplistic, but I just feel like it's a bandaid of and maybe it is that fear of mortality which you were saying.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it is, and it's like.
Speaker 3:Do you think it's also generational? Yeah, yeah, Like do you think certain generations engage in it more than others.
Speaker 1:I mean right now it's obviously feels like at a fever pitch, but maybe it just always gets worse and worse with like capitalism and the products out there, oh, 100%, it's totally driven by that. There's so many like.
Speaker 3:Wellness, cultures, celebrities yeah, that is like.
Speaker 1:It's so everywhere and it's like I just think for me, for me like and of course I've engaged with it like big time and I'm, I feel like conflicted about it for sure, because I think, well, to your point. It's like aging is like the changing of cells in the body, like why would a $500 face cream change that? It's like it's almost laughable how like hoodwinked everyone is.
Speaker 1:But it's like these are cells in the body. Slather a cream on a tree. You think that's going to change the rings Like? No, it's like, would it smooth the bark? I guess, maybe I don't know, but it's like.
Speaker 3:But that's the vanity of it is like you just want to. You don't want to look different.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You, just you. You found a moment in your life where you're like, oh, you're like, yeah, it's probably going to go downhill a little bit, Like. I want to sustain this, what I look like right now.
Speaker 1:And yeah, it's like I wonder why. I know it's probably it varies, but it's like what's the fear there? If you look different, what happens? I don't know, yeah, I don't, I guess. Yeah, I'm trying to think for me, because it's like I use a cream each night that's like anti-aging.
Speaker 3:I'm doing this, so it's like this is going to be our first sponsor.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah it is anti-aging. Use our code.
Speaker 2:Use our code to get this anti-aging cream. It's taken years off my life now I look like I'm 12. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like. What's yeah For me? What's the fear? It's like. Yeah, it's probably not being like, but is it?
Speaker 3:fear even, or is it just that it helps your skin look a certain way that you like? See, there's so much nuance to it where it's like are you buying into anti-aging or is it just like there are certain beauty products we use that we like, yeah, and we like the way they make our skin look? Is it that you're denying the fact that you're aging?
Speaker 1:no, but like yeah you know what I'm saying? I know it's like I am trying to find the authentic, like middle of that yeah, it's like you know what like, because I I do read a lot of these, like they're called, like beauty d influencers who talk a lot about how, like, unbelievably misogynist and problematic like any cosmetic product is, and I do really hear them on it and it's like I also know it's like I am so steeped in that culture as a woman that it's like it does feel like appropriate for me to wear makeup at certain times Like this is what's right, yeah, and it's like well, what does that mean?
Speaker 1:if I don't wear it, I'm wrong in my natural state. Or if I age, if I'm a woman and I'm in a wheelchair when I'm 70, it's like and then there's a woman who's like out on the running trail.
Speaker 1:And it's like, does that mean I have less value than that part? Like I, I know to my core I don't believe that. So even like, even sometimes the celebrating of like oh my god, you think they're 60 and they're 80. I'm like, I don't know if I like that that much, like I think the woman in the wheelchair like again the formless, like the forms are meaningless, she's life itself just like this woman.
Speaker 1:And this woman might be dedicating her life to making sure her body is thin or appropriate, and this woman in the wheelchair is like living and like dealing with a disability and going on. Like how noble and incredible is that? Like I just think it's like I engage in it and I'm like I don't know if I agree with this and I'm doing it and I don't.
Speaker 3:maybe I can sit with that dichotomy a bit or that contradiction, but I actually think this has come up for me more recently than I actually thought yeah I now I'm thinking about, like I pretty early, I would say like early to mid thirties like I started getting a lot of like gray, almost white, hair in my beard, yeah.
Speaker 3:And I did not care at all about that. Yeah, I actually liked the way it looked. Yeah, I think that's cool, but there's like so much like out there about like make it black, like paint it black like paint it back to your cause.
Speaker 1:I have dark yeah you know, and it's just like no, not at all.
Speaker 3:But what I will say that maybe I've gone down a little bit of a rabbit hole with is and I think did I mention this in the last podcast and me or maybe it was before the last podcast how my barber like roasted me about like oh, you're a little bit thin on top yeah, and I think for like a week I was like, oh my god, like I gotta do something about this, like I got, like I can't lose my hair yeah like what is it what?
Speaker 3:like right, you know, and not to give too much information, right, but I'm a pretty hairy guy, like I just like like I have to shave consistently, like. So the thought of like that was kind of like oh man, like I'm getting old, like if I'm like thinning hair, like yeah, so then I don't know if it went to the anti-aging, but it certainly had me like researching things, like should I try to like save this?
Speaker 3:yeah, is this like a thing I should talk to my doctor about. Am I gonna look like somebody who's like really holding on too much?
Speaker 1:of like you, you know like yeah.
Speaker 3:So I think this actually has come up more recently, when it came to, maybe, the vanity of like. Well, what would it mean if I had to eventually like shave my head and be like bald?
Speaker 1:or something like that. Yeah, it's like who would I be what? What would that mean?
Speaker 3:What would that mean, am I going to be unattractive to like Sarah? Am I going to like sarah? Am I gonna like? Is that gonna like? Because she's only known me as somebody with hair, you know like? So I think yeah. I don't know if that falls into the anti-aging, but it's the aging component of, like, my body's changing right, yeah, and it's kind of like that is hard and it's like that panic of like, oh, I'm gonna look different right, you know right, and I think I would never want to take away someone's right to that panic.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But I think it's like again. It's like what do we do with it?
Speaker 3:What do we do? Do we?
Speaker 1:try to control it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Or do you like metabolize that and realize like this is to be what it is to be alive, to embrace Like I. I my body will break down and I will become of the earth. But you know, it's like, and there's something so important there, and I do think the small things can like like really hurt our ability to face what's like ultimately, kind of like transformative, to face death, you know, and like really, it's like, I think, the way to be truly alive like so like maybe it's not wise and yet here I am out here being not wise.
Speaker 1:But you know, I'm always gonna keep thinking. You never know, maybe I'll get off the train I don't think you're on it I know I I think you're painting yourself as if you're like on it maybe I just don't know enough.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I'm on it a little bit, but I think it's like they don't want to be you want to be, or it's like I've let my I have grays coming in and like I've let them be you and even I'm getting married and I'm sort of like I don't know, maybe I'll just have gray hair. I love a gray. Yeah, I love a gray.
Speaker 3:Like I love a gray yeah.
Speaker 1:It's kind of like cool and it's like it is that you know, this is a little cheesy, but like a symbol of like I've lived and like, yeah, I'm only 35. I'm not 70, but it's like I I've had experience.
Speaker 3:It's like can you let your body show life? I'm gonna misquote this. I guarantee I'm gonna misquote this. I should probably look it up, but I'm too lazy to clean it up. But you know, ted danson is a podcast. He does.
Speaker 2:Yeah, wow, I think everybody has a podcast. Yeah, so just name somebody. But yeah, I think it's called like where everybody knows your name.
Speaker 3:Oh, okay, sure, and I think like what's somebody, but yeah, I think it's called like where everybody knows your name oh, okay sure and I think like what's funny about the podcast is it's like him and woody harrelson, but woody harrelson only like kind of like drops in when he feels like it like, it's almost like.
Speaker 3:So, woody, yeah, it's almost like kind of like a thing where it's like he might show up, he might not but he's like on there yeah and I think um him and ted danson that is, and um kelsey grammar were like a strange, not estranged, I don't know, but they just weren't in contact for a while, like a long time and, um they, he.
Speaker 3:He recently had kelsey grammar on the podcast. I didn't listen to it, but I was reading some of it that was transcribed and I think it might have been ted danson who gave kelsey grammar this kind of like nugget, and kelsey grammar is like I'll never forget. When I turned 40 he said to ted danson something to the effect of you said something to me that was so profound, where he was like well, now that you're 40, you're finally worth having a conversation with almost like that idea like you've lived enough life now, where it's like you know not that, and again they were very cautious about like not that anybody else has anything worthwhile you know,
Speaker 3:but like, almost that idea of like, let's embrace that like you're getting older, you've lived life, you have a lot of experience, you have a lot of things to share, right? So just one lens to look through and I thought that and he said that that really stuck with him, that, like him, turning 40 was a little bit like oh my god, I'm 40, right now he's like oh well, let's embrace that, because now, like you, have stuff to share. You have, like, a lot of experience you know that type of thing totally.
Speaker 1:I love seeing it that way, like you have a really experienced things and probably a big part of that is like you've been knocked down yeah, exactly you know, like, I think that's a huge part of like perspective is like you've struggled and made it this far, right, yeah totally yeah, which I thought was I love that
Speaker 1:yeah, it was kind of cool, yeah, read that, yeah, and I sometimes I'll laugh cool, yeah, to like read that yeah, and I sometimes I'll laugh Like when I think of, like, like I will truly have clients that are 27 that are like freaked out about how old they are, and it's just like you're 27.
Speaker 3:Oh wait, so here's another thing. I'm sorry. I feel, like I no, you're good, no, I don't care. So I can cut you off all the time. No, you don't, you don't. Yeah, okay, you're like no, you don't. There's also that thing that's been coming up, maybe not so recently, but looking at celebrities or photos of them when they were 40 in the 90s and how they look like they're in their 60s.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I even feel like, like steve martin is the classic example of that like if you look at him and like father of the bride, he's like 38 years old and he's like 50 or something, I would guess well, I, I mean, I don't know the exact ages. Actually, if you like, look up like, or even diane keaton yeah, who's very chic, totally she's but, still some of the shit that people were wearing I know it's like, or even your family like. Look at your parents photos of like when they were younger now?
Speaker 1:well right that's what I'm saying. It's like that's, but maybe that's just our lens, like we associate that age with these clothes but it's like that's only because they've stayed with the same clothes, and now that's what 60 year olds wear.
Speaker 3:But I guess, but I mean it's just wild.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it is wild. Well, the this came up with like my mom and I were watching I think you knew this during covid, watching classic movies, and you remember you recommended primal fear, which we did oh did you watch it?
Speaker 3:yeah?
Speaker 1:we watched it. It was great amazing loved it, but we also watched jaws and I was like I wonder how old the mean guy is supposed to be, the like cop or whatever yeah right right supposed to be like 29.
Speaker 3:He looks like he's 50 yeah, it's insane like I was like I love looking, I love looking that shit up yeah, it's like yeah, everybody looks like they're in their 50s yeah and then it's like 27.
Speaker 1:Totally, I'm a grad school student, it's all over the map now too, because now I think some young celebrities have so much work they look older because they kind of just look like a stepmom who's had a lot of work. So, it's like what the hell's going on? Or they look the same age as their own mom and you're like I don't know what the up is down. It's just crazy.
Speaker 3:Wow, I don't know what up is down. It's just crazy Wow.
Speaker 1:I have to. He was that. He was supposed to be that young in Jaws, I think he was like under 30. That's crazy, crazy, yeah, and he was like tan and probably like leathery because of that, but yeah like smoking.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean he's like they're all aged. They're all aged by like 10 years from it's crazy yeah, yes, okay. So I think we've maybe not settled it on anti-aging, but I don't know, I don't think it's wise but I guess my interpretation of it is that it's not wise because I feel like it's impossible, it's impossible denial it's denial. Yeah, it's only going to catch up with you.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Right yeah, and you won't have let yourself face it Gracefully. Yeah Well, I almost I like your idea of like can you do things that like ease you into your age? Yes, remove barriers, right, you know. Get the stairs out of the house, you know just like smooth it off.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Cause it's kind of like at some point you're just you're gonna look old. Yeah, I would rather look old and still feel young versus putting all my eggs into the. I need to look young yeah, basket yeah and I feel like shit yeah yeah, if that makes any sense totally you know, because I would rather just feel like healthy. Yeah, I guess, and like my body my looks. I'll try the best I can, but yeah, it's like come on pretty soon.
Speaker 1:I'm just gonna have like a dream but you know like I'll just look the way I look you know like that's gonna totally that's out of my control. Yeah, most of it is. Yeah, totally okay. Well, maybe we maybe we'll wrap up there.
Speaker 3:Yes, happy holidays.
Speaker 1:Yeah, happy holidays. If we don't meet before then, yeah, If we don't meet before then, wishing you and your family, yes. Wisdom yeah, and just like be kind to yourself, be kind to yourself.
Speaker 3:Be in your wise minds, be gentle with yourself.
Speaker 2:Happy holidays.
Speaker 1:Happy holidays. Thanks everyone. All right, oh, should we do plugs real?
Speaker 2:quick. Oh plugs, yeah, I don't have any, if you need to find me.
Speaker 1:you can find me on my website, kksychotherapycom. And yeah, if you want to reach out, you want to work with me or anything like that, you can reach me there on the Contact Us page.
Speaker 3:And, John, if you yeah, if you ever want to reach out, buts b-u-t-z dot jonathan j-o-n-a-t-h-n at gmailcom, always remember blanket forts yeah, yes, our music. Thank you to blanket forts for providing theme music and thank you to josh, as always, for producing us yeah, thanks for participating.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I look up d up DJ Blanketfortz on Spotify.
Speaker 3:See you next time.
Speaker 1:The Wise Mind Happy Hour podcast is for entertainment purposes only, not to be treated as medical advice. If you are struggling with your mental health, please seek medical attention or counseling.