The Wise Mind Happy Hour
Two therapists musing about the idea of an inner wise mind and how to connect with this psychic space in different contexts.
The Wise Mind Happy Hour
Our First Ever Mini Episode
This episode is even tinier than all of our other episodes.
Why?
Our co-host Jon Butz is off this week. Instead, we have Kelly and our producer JOSH - who is actually her fiancé - take you on a remarkably candid journey through their personal struggles and how they navigate them together using "wise mind" principles.
Interested? Listen.
- music by blanket forts -
Welcome to the Wise Mind Happy Hour mini episode. Colon Josh and Kelly. This is a little something that we're experimenting with on the weeks where John and I are unable to record together due to life and craziness and schedules. We're wanting to, you know, keep our pace and trying to have episodes out, give you some content each week. So we're experimenting with these mini episodes where Josh and I our producer, josh, who's here with me- Welcome, josh, hello producing.
Speaker 1:Producingcing. He and I talk about various topics often, maybe how we navigate certain things in our relationship with Wise Mind, yeah, how Wise Mind comes up in a bunch of different areas. And, yeah, hopefully these will just be little mini episodes for you to enjoy. Yeah, so, josh, why don't you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about you? I know people know already, but, yeah, tell us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure sure, so you may have heard my voice before. My name is Josh Baer, from Michigan. I am Kelly Kilgallen's fiance and soon-to-be husband.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:I am a documentary filmmaker, although I largely say editor, because that is how I brand myself because, that is mostly how I make money.
Speaker 2:But I film a lot of things as well. Recent credits include Council Wars 2020 about the video game wars between Nintendo and Sega, great movie Available on Paramount+ GameStop. Rise of the Players about the stock market fiasco, available on Hulu. And just in case anyone wants to steal my idea, I'm directing a documentary about pet psychics with my partner in crime, henry Moskowitz, who we should have on the pod at some point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, shout out to Henry, I'm realizing.
Speaker 2:Shout out Henry Moskowitz.
Speaker 1:Yeah, other.
Speaker 2:than that I have no interest. I'm very interested in music, yeah, and I love living with Kelly and recording this podcast.
Speaker 1:Oh, yes, I love living with you. Thank you, thank you, yeah, and of course I'm Kelly and you know Josh and I talk a lot about wise mind and versions of wise mind in our relationship and how it comes up. You know we try to be. I mean, when you're dating a therapist, when you're engaged with therapists, there's a lot of talking. There's a lot of open communication and at least attempting to have healthy communication. So it's a blessing and a curse do you ever use therapy against me?
Speaker 1:weaponized therapy? To be honest, I'm sure that I have. I would I not consciously, but I'm sure it's been weaponized.
Speaker 2:Well, I won't list any examples.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, it's almost impossible. Have you ever weaponized documentary film against me.
Speaker 2:Well, I film you every night as you sleep but I don't ever publish the recordings, so I think it's relatively benign.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, yeah, recording, so I think it's relatively benign. Yeah, okay, um, yeah, but yeah. So we, we talk a ton about finding our wise mind, getting to in our connection with each other, in our interactions with each other, trying to lead from a place of, in ifs we we would say self-energy, you know, leading from this capital S self within the wise mind that has wisdom, has patience, is open, is curious, is compassionate and, in many ways, I think, most of all still, and you know, listening and not reacting so intensely. So both of us, I think, really try at this. So we figured today maybe we'd talk a bit about the wise mind in our relationship, but with the specific topic of how mental health comes up in our relationship, or mental, not health you know, for both of us mental unhealth and, yeah, how we have navigated it, maybe sometimes how we've poorly navigated it.
Speaker 2:Sure sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and ways we've handled it better and learned. Because I will say one thing about Josh and and I and I really do believe this is each and every time we have conflict we really do learn something and feel more invigorated and connected to each other. I will give us insane credit for that.
Speaker 2:I I agree, I agree and I think this is the first relationship I've felt that way and I think usually 36 hours after a very low point, I'm usually feeling pretty euphoric and grateful that you're the person I'm going to be spending my life with and I think you know it's difficult to have healthy conflict and to really go there and feel like the world is ending and hopefully I think, less and less. It feels less like the world is ending and hopefully I think less and less it feels less like the world is ending.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:But I think we're both extremely emotional in different ways. We probably have slightly different flavors of mental illness.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yes, definitely. No, I'm so. My heart is bursting hearing you say that and I feel the same way. I really feel when we resolve conflict so grateful to be with you and that I have a partner willing to have open conversation and look at things honestly, which is great. But, that's not to say that we don't. There's not messiness before that point.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, we want to talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's talk about the messiness. Yeah, where should we start?
Speaker 1:Well, we want to. I think we talked about starting maybe each of us describing some of our personal mental health struggles, like recently, and maybe kind of in general. Okay, yeah, so I can start.
Speaker 2:Sure yeah.
Speaker 1:Get in there.
Speaker 2:Dig into it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know I'm going to start with the present moment, as I often do with my clients. Something I struggle with a lot in my life pre-Josh is, you know, being connected to my self, worth enough to trust that I can have and deserve good things, that I'm loved and cared about, that as John has joked about this that I'm seen fully. Yeah, I've definitely struggled with that and I think I've discovered in my life probably over the past 10 years it wasn't such an obvious, conscious struggle for me my self-worth. I think when I was younger my struggles looked a lot more like, to be frank, they looked a lot more like body image struggles that were kind of masking deeper things and some perfectionism around that, and I think the real struggle was like feeling good enough, feeling lovable, feeling capable and a lot of that.
Speaker 2:How that looks in my day-to-day life is worry about the future, worry about things working out for me and for the world but a lot of the time for me worrying that everything will always be bad, always, yeah worrying that everything will always be bad, always.
Speaker 1:And worrying, even finding this in therapy, worrying that if and when I have success, I won't be able to handle it and sustain it and feel enough energy and motivation and joy in doing it, kind of assuming it will be overwhelming and it will be too much and I will buckle under that weight. That definitely has come up for me a lot of my life, with my, my practice, with all the endeavors that I want, even things like you know what you do with success, right, do you expand you, you buy a house, you have children and you're financially responsible for them and all these things and and emotionally responsible and literally responsible. So will I be able to really handle that? Will my body even be able to handle that? Because I've had health struggles and autoimmune issues and you know, am I, am I really able to to handle that?
Speaker 1:And I think also another way, kind of a subtle way, that this shows up is like attacking myself, and not in the classic, like negative self-talk, but more, um, not trusting myself, I think, to handle things.
Speaker 1:And that then manifests in me you know this josh demanding that my outside world become comfortable and serve me, which is me to protect me, rescue me, you know, and that even at times showed up in dating, you know, wanting someone to like rescue me from myself and my own flaws, like rescue me from myself and my own flaws. And I think until I really worked on connecting to my wise mind and deeply accepting myself I mean I know this is true until I really accepted myself in a profound way and got into that space, I don't think I could really have ever, I say, manifested Josh but gravitated toward the right person, really been able to like find that thread. I think it took as long as it took to meet Josh to really do some of that work of self-acceptance. So I'm like rambling on here, but, yeah, I think big time that that was part of my journey and you know that stuff that I just mentioned shows up in our relationship, even though I went a long way before meeting you, of course, like forever work in progress.
Speaker 1:But yeah, that's. That's some of how my mental health shows up and also, I'll say, honorable mention, I tend to maybe. Well, although I worry a lot and I do feel anxious, I'm a little more prone to feeling depressed, I think, than you are. So that's maybe our perfect segue over to you.
Speaker 2:Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's all landing. It's good to hear you say yeah. It feels encapsulated in a way that I think will help me even more in the future, navigating our struggles and your struggles. Yeah, and I'm going to talk about myself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, go for it Okay, depressed. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't get too depressed, except for when I get sick. I think I'm incredibly anxious yeah except for when I get sick. I think I'm incredibly anxious. I've been, you know, probably since I was in sixth or seventh grade. I've realized I was anxious. I think I had a lot more confidence up until middle school, when I switched schools.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And kind of really got bullied for the first time, like even by my friends, and I remember they would tell me I was like having like a funkster episode and I think I think I just make these like incredibly and I'll never see, because I'm not, you know, I'm in the driver's seat, I don't get to really see myself, but I just think I must make like crazy faces when I'm uncomfortable you do um, they're just very expressive yeah, and I can't really control it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, and I do think I like have a lot of the time this like long view outlook of like everything's okay, but in the moment I can just get so flustered and to add another layer. I you know now I'm diagnosed with OCD and really like I feel like I've been joking about it for maybe 10 or 15 years and my mom who's maybe listening to this love my mom to death has always.
Speaker 1:You don't have ocd you know well, ocd is tough.
Speaker 2:I mean it can be subtle yeah, and like I'm not like walking around like wiping, well, I am walking around like wiping counter yeah, you are actually yeah, but like I think, not compulsively.
Speaker 2:I think I'm a pretty happy person and I think I'm high functioning. High functioning, yeah, but but when you share living space with someone who you love, who has is extremely perceptive, I think someone is around you who notices what I would call like wild mood swings. Like I can be in a pretty good mood, just like listening to my music, thinking about how great everything is, and then, like suddenly something will come up about, like maybe I have to take like the car in to get an oil change and I like wanted to make a playlist or finish logging footage for a scene, and I'll just get like so thrown off and, and you know, as you'll say, sometimes it'll look like I'm crumbling, yeah, um, but the feeling isn't that I'm crumbling, it's just I get.
Speaker 2:It's almost like constipated yeah and I probably make all sorts of gross faces, um you know, constipated or crumbling perhaps, but I just I'll get in these loops that are not productive and then sometimes, when we'll get in an argument for you know, about 36 hours after the fact, I'll have this loop playing in my head, both of like how I have failed you and how I'm like a shitty person, and also like how I'm upset with you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but that part you often will bury and you'll prioritize the self-hatred, sure, but I think what may be more true is your anger at me, maybe, and by that I mean, like fair.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, okay, that's fine, you know, because, like I think, sometimes what I noticed myself doing is kind of I'm a therapist, right, but in those moments I think I'll kind of be like just chill out, just don't feel this way. Yeah, that's incredibly invalidating. I know that I do this because I'll be activated and just, and I'll know that, yes, and I'll know that I do this because I'll be activated and just, and I'll know that, yes.
Speaker 2:And I'll know that I'm activated yeah.
Speaker 1:And sometimes I go to this place of like can't you just be chill, Can't you just handle this? And it is as I say it now. I know it's incredibly unhelpful, but I definitely do it, and I think we've gotten to a place lately. I'm getting ahead of myself a little bit here. Sorry, I'm like interrupting yours.
Speaker 2:No, I mean it's good that we're kind of just conversing now. I don't like to monologue. Yeah, okay, I think I've thrown down a lot of the raw data. Yeah, anyway.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, like I think, as I say it now, just telling you to feel a different way isn't fair, and and and this is maybe more recent, but I feel like we have both together realized like maybe sometimes you need to let yourself be upset with me. Yeah, and honor that it's not always you. Yeah, you might have an authentic feeling. I feel like I've said this literally yes, sometimes, yeah, you've done a great job of that and I feel like you've heard it, yeah, and sometimes it really stings.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know um well, you know, sometimes you'll tell me things that sting but are ultimately helpful to know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'm much easier I might. It's easier for me to criticize others than it is for you to criticize others, which I think is a strength of yours in a way, in many ways, in many ways because I think I can sometimes kind of say like well you're, this is the thing you're doing, and yeah, and maybe that comes a little with my profession and like let me give you a little feedback on this well, I've been surrounded by therapists my whole life so in some ways I'm used to it yeah yeah, but all the other therapists in my life have.
Speaker 2:Well, that's not true. I think my sister told me I need to go to therapy, which I'm not going to, but I also to have compassion for your mom.
Speaker 1:I think there is value to and not labeling someone yeah, you know, in their mental health.
Speaker 2:I think I've considered myself pretty stable, yeah, for a long time, and I do now. So it's come full circle. But you know it's. It's been interesting living with you and sharing such an intimate experience and like really having my personality put up under a microscope with someone who I like, deeply trust and admire, and it's both horrifying and really character building yeah and I think I just like, I think I have a lot of trust because there's dogs barking. Yeah, I mean, what do you think about that?
Speaker 1:about which part?
Speaker 2:about the dog? What do you think about the dog? I don't know. I mean, neither of us have really lived with anyone yeah like this. I think we've lived with roommates, but not with a romantic partner.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I think it's like the best kind of like classroom to learn how to relate. I mean it's like trial by fire yeah, we both work from home, we're around each other.
Speaker 2:We're on pretty much 24 7. All of our friends have pretty much moved away. So yeah we're definitely like each other's support we spend so much time together so it's working pretty well.
Speaker 1:Yes, I could not love living with you more. Yeah, I love it so much and you know we're in each other's business all the time. We're pissing each other off we're pissing each other off.
Speaker 2:I think that's normal yeah, and I think that's the epiphany yeah, yeah, it's normal we're gonna piss each other off, right and sometimes I do.
Speaker 1:I I had this realization the other day where I'm like sometimes I realize like the kind of conflict we might get into in the middle of a work day is sort of a function of like kelly doesn't have anyone to talk to between her tasks at work and probably should be in an office right now looking for a co-worker to just sit around with, and instead I'm kind of like wandering toward you when you're like trying to focus and not in that same way I go in robot mode yeah, I go in beast mode for most of the day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you do, you are very focused on your work, and which is great. We almost have completely opposite work styles.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Where I'm like this, like flower child in the field who like never feels motivated unless I'm like with a client. But like with all the outside work, there's a lot of willingness I have to access and sometimes anxiety that pushes me to do it. But you are very kind of inspired all the time, sort of.
Speaker 2:Sure, but that's why I have worse substance abuse problems than you.
Speaker 1:Well, what do you mean? You like a substance more than me.
Speaker 2:No, that's not what I was thinking.
Speaker 1:What were you thinking?
Speaker 2:That I'm like, so motivated that sometimes to take the edge off of like being on 24-7. Yeah, I crave a substance to take the edge off. Yeah, I don't give myself a lot of permission to just like kind of like futz around. I feel like I want to be on with my work like all the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then with you, I want to be on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, with my work, like all the time, yeah, and then with you I want to be, um, yeah, well, sometimes and you, you named this that you had a recognition that sometimes almost your ocd or perfectionism, enters even the space of like having a drink yeah, I want to like have this euphoric experience listening to music or editing, or, yeah, you know, with with you even.
Speaker 1:Or it's like this starts to feel good. I need it to feel perfectly good, and that was really insightful, and I think ever since that you have had a better handle on it.
Speaker 2:Well, I'll notice Like I'll feel the urge to grab another drink and I'll be like, hmm, maybe let's like finish this episode or finish this conversation.
Speaker 1:And I'll have another drink like 45 minutes yeah.
Speaker 2:Like don't. Yeah, you know, I get I like chain, do everything. I, as I always say, I struggle transitioning.
Speaker 1:Yes, I'm drinking. Yeah, I think that's something worth us mentioning that. Yeah, you've mentioned that, that you transitions can be a little distressing for you and uncomfortable, and I'm sure they are for me too. I know they are, but like the way we handle it is so different.
Speaker 1:Like you, I think, will, like you said, get a little constipated, get a little tight, yeah, and I'll like dawdle, if you notice, like yeah, and I'll kind of like avoid in a like subtle sometimes I'll try to be funny about it, but it's it's true avoidance of, like the transition to the next.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like today, after my last client, I had to go to FedEx to print out a few things and I watched myself like find anything I could do to knock it out the door and I recognize like oh wow, like watch it unfold, watch the dawdling, the struggle with transition, like I just don't want to go to the next thing. Yeah, transition, like I just don't want to go to the next thing. Yeah, and there's less like active distress, but there is like avoidance going on. There's like a child, like like willfulness, like how kids will be, like wait, I left my, my bun bun, as an eve would say downstairs, so we have to go get it and like slowly walk down there and because they don't want to go to sleep, I'm a little like that, whereas I think you might get pretty agitated and tight.
Speaker 1:Yeah and want perfection out of the moment probably yeah yeah, yeah. So we I think we both in some way struggle with it yeah, we're both very dysfunctional.
Speaker 2:Yeah, incredibly. Just a backtrack for everyone's who's listening and probably very concerned about me. Um, I I'm no longer indulging in in marijuana yes, you've decided to cut that out. Yeah, well, tell us about that yeah, well, it's something I really love. Yeah, a lot, yeah, and I love to listen to music and, you know, be under the influence yeah, have an edible for the last several years, or be editing and have an edible and yeah it's something you've never been so as into yeah, like every so often, but I've never.
Speaker 2:It's not my drug of choice yeah, and I definitely don't need it to have fun socially. In fact, I prefer to not do that yeah it can make me kind of in my head and in a weird mood and overthinking everything.
Speaker 1:But yeah definitely, you know, during my editing or before bed, it was something that I really craved yeah, and you noticed that a lot of your time you were kind of like organizing things around and it would stress me out.
Speaker 2:Yeah and I, you know, to be fully transparent, I was sneaking it in the night for a couple months yeah, every so often every so often yeah, and you had caught me a couple times and I kind of lied about it and I don't lie about anything right, which I think you now believe me on yeah, choosing to believe.
Speaker 1:Choosing to believe no, I do. Okay, yeah, yeah, that was a very uncomfortable moment and I kind of had this realization.
Speaker 2:It felt like the world was exploding. I was like I guess I should just stop, and I've been so happy since I feel like my life is basically the same, but maybe a little less cognitive dissonance.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I basically the same, but like maybe a little less cognitive dissonance. Yeah, I do. It's one less thing to be stressed about. And I think I think my rationalization of myself, which I've told you, was like, oh, I'm gonna be a dad soon and then I'm probably gonna have to give it up pretty much 100 for like 15 to 20 years. So like now is my last hurrah to like really go for it because I love it so much, and then I'll have a kid and I'll be like on the adrenaline of that.
Speaker 1:But like now that I'm, you know, with kelly and happy and don't have a kid and it's at night and whatever, I'll just do it and listen to music yeah, and I'm loving my music, yeah, and the funny thing is like and I maintain this like when someone really has a casual relationship with something like that, plans around it, using it, not using it, not using it are like completely unnecessary for someone who truly could take it or leave it, right. You know, with anything I think that's true. You know, it's like for me, I've never done dry January because that sounds insane, like I've never drank enough to ever justify a dry yeah, you're pretty, you're pretty drug averse well, not drug averse, I think I don't need it to.
Speaker 2:To feel like joy, to feel but I'll say I don't need it to feel joy.
Speaker 1:I'll say this I have periods of my life where food has been like that and and like eating, behavior, like let's call it non-intuitive eating has definitely been a struggle and felt, felt difficult to like, have a healthy relationship with and you know, occasionally this comes up.
Speaker 1:I can talk about that too. But, um, one of the big ones for me spending. I can all day long say, well, I don't struggle with substances or whatever. But for me to have compassion for you in the conversation about marijuana, something I really truly had to access, to find that openness to the struggle for you was recognizing like you have had struggles with this and in your life, been dishonest about it to protect, shame about it and spent incredibly stupidly for decades in my life. And I'm at this place where I'm really trying to be reading all the books, doing all the practices, budgeting and staying within the budget. You know that's something of the last five to seven years for me And'm loving it, but I in in working on it. It sheds a light even more on like that is definitely a struggle for me too, and I know there's me hustling for self-worth and buying things.
Speaker 2:You know, when I own this outfit I'll feel that'll be it and then I'll feel I know, and sometimes I'm a little bit like hustling for self-worth in in terms of not buying things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yes, you have a totally opposite relationship. The more you kind of save and deprive, yourself on it a little bit. Yeah, you do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it's funny Like we have such, sometimes such opposite coping mechanisms.
Speaker 1:But this brings us to the idea of wise mind, my wise mind, your wise mind. I believe that the wise mind of every person, the inner knowing self of every person, is like completely connected to each other and whole and kind of. You know this eternal part of every human being. So it doesn't really matter if you're coping and your struggles are different and your reactions, that inner soul is always able to connect and experience love of the other person and be with them and experience love of the other person and be with them. And so, even though our struggles look different and our reactions look different and we come from different backgrounds, like culturally, Right, I'm.
Speaker 1:Jewish, you're Jewish, I grew up Irish Catholic. They're pretty different. I mean it's funny saying that, because I'm sure we could pick two that are more different than that. We're both white Right and like Judeo-Christian religions than that. We're both white right, um, and like judeo-christian religions have. We're both straight, but yeah, right, but it you know like I think there is a lot of cultural difference in growing up in a jewish family. Jewish neighborhood school.
Speaker 2:Everyone's in each other's business well, it's.
Speaker 1:It's a lot more direct. It's more open. Problems are talked about and shared, what's traditional in an Irish Catholic family and my family in some ways aligns with some of these and some ways doesn't. But yeah, it's like problems are less talked about and a little more. There's a lot more repressed affect. Yeah shame, shame. Well, in Catholicismolicism, shame it trades in shame. I know it's offensive to a lot of people who are catholic, but I think shame is a big part of the, the faith and the doctrine.
Speaker 1:You know that you are supposed to see yourself as sinful and constantly repent yeah and it took me a while of my own, like discovery and my own work on myself, my own spirituality, realized, like it just doesn't resonate with me, that belief that I or anyone else should feel, should constantly feel shame about their humanity. It just, it just doesn't, the shoe doesn't fit for me. And who am I? I'm not all knowing, I don't know everything, but yeah, so I think that's part of, too, what helps me, because I think in judaism shame is a lot of guilt.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and what's the difference? Can you help explain that for me?
Speaker 1:totally well, I will definitely lean on bernie brown for this but, bernie brown would say guilt is the sense that I made a mistake. Say guilt is the sense that I made a mistake and shame is the sense that. I am a mistake, oh wow.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:So one is self-definition and the other is, you know, I made a mistake, I messed up in this situation. Yeah, and shame is like I am bad and I am wrong.
Speaker 2:Which do you think is wiser?
Speaker 1:Well, that's so funny that you say that, because over the years when I did more group therapy, I've done so many like more didactic groups on shame versus guilt and a lot of the conversation is like how can you actually move shame to guilt by process, through processing it essentially. And you know, I think shame is that kind of like the opposite of self-worth, right, like I am bad, I am not acceptable, and self-worth is like I am completely acceptable as I am.
Speaker 1:you know, naturally so I just feel really bad about all the mistakes I've made yeah, like you can have self-worth and recognize like I failed here, yeah, and that can be a self-worthy statement and sense. So I do think guilt tends to be more wise because it isn't so self-defining. But you know, shame is interesting. I'm always curious forever about shame and I'm hesitant at this point in my life to villainize it because I also notice and find in my own life, like places where shame comes up, if I just call that bad, to feel that it doesn't really honor like the gateway of self-exploration that I enter in through that pain, because it can be one of the most painful emotions to feel like I reject myself when you're there, if you can get to a place where you can talk about that with your partner, with your therapist, with their friend, whatever, weirdly enough, it can be a place where you actually find a deeper self-acceptance once that feeling is resolved and it takes having it to resolve it.
Speaker 1:So I I don't know, I'm I, I I hesitate to say anything is more wise or not wise. I think every experience can be a gateway to the self and the soul, essentially the wise mind. A big part of my journey of like practicing self-acceptance is knowing what I don't accept about myself, what I feel shame about, defining those things I call them shadow a lot in my work. And like embracing shadow parts of myself, embracing the things I most dislike about myself.
Speaker 1:There's not one single thing that has made me feel more healed than that To recognize like I am allowed to be selfish. I'm allowed to be vain. I'm allowed to be stupid. I'm allowed to be inappropriate. I'm allowed to be immature. And recognize like I occupy the entire human spectrum and those allowed to be inappropriate.
Speaker 1:I'm allowed to be immature and recognize like I occupy the entire human spectrum and those are parts of me that I am allowed to be in it. They do not move the needle on my self-worth and in the practice of even owning those out loud to people and in my life and leading from a place of like, maybe, if I feel this, I'm going to share it with the person I'm with. I'm going to share it with the person I'm with I'm going to. I'm not going to fight this trait of myself or this part of myself. I really it was the most profound shift I've ever made in my whole life and, yeah, so it's a backbone of the work I do with clients. But I think it's helped me a lot and it's a lot of what you and I talk about and me encouraging you to let yourself be imperfect. Sure, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Which can be a struggle for you and for you and for me. Oh, totally Like, except your parts. Yeah, definitely, because I think, at the end of the day, my imperfections, you know, are pretty annoying You're, so you know are pretty annoying, you're so you know, you just nailed it and I'm like feeling shame right now because it's like I'm sitting here talking about like how much is how much progress I've made in your soul, but I feel like I have made so much progress living with you.
Speaker 2:I think it's insanely challenging living with a romantic partner. I think I commend anyone who's doing it and I think my life is so much richer.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I could like live alone my whole life and like listen to music and, you know, get crunk every night and like I don't know, I don't. That like makes me sad thinking about that, Totally, Totally. Maybe I'd be like a really successful documentary filmmaker. But yeah. I don't know. I think it's an amazing challenge to like to meld worlds with someone else who's functioning on a pretty intense level yeah, as we both arguably are, and yeah, yeah, the challenge of it is really.
Speaker 1:It's painful, but it's is such an invitation to grow. Yeah, you know, when you're bothered by your partner, I think, yeah, it's like a relentless kind of call to evolve. Yeah, and you're so right that I, when I see like your shadow, or you not accepting your shadow, instead of me being open to that and letting you work through that, I'll just be like do this. Yeah, well, the other day, when I was like flipping out about.
Speaker 2:I think this was literally yesterday. I was flipping out about coming out of the shower without a towel and getting the bath mats like soaking wet, right. I was like they're gonna get all mildewy and I think I asked you like six times right, like you thought it was an issue.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and immediately I said like I was like, oh, I could care less about that. I was like, don't worry about it at all, I step out of the shower once every, or like one out of four showers. I like forgot something and grab it out of the cabinet and I'm getting the whole floor soaking wet and it doesn't bother me, it's not gonna get mildewy. It's an open air just not gonna happen. I couldn't have been more like no problem, buddy.
Speaker 1:And you could not accept that right, yeah, yeah. So that's what the asking numerous times was about yeah, getting a just right answer, right Kind of like OCD needs, yeah, that some kind of. Or if I tell you six times, it feels more real, I guess.
Speaker 2:So or you told me something else. I think what I said was like maybe I had like stepped out of the shower six times before and like spiraled about getting the bath mat wet and like I went and got a towel and mopped it up and was like, okay now, like now the bath mats will be good and I'm being like a good um housemate to kelly and a good partner and like yeah, the fact that I had done all that and it was all for naught, it was like I almost needed you to say it five more times to make up for those other six times.
Speaker 1:I had really stressed about it, yeah, and you know, and I'm over here being like chill, the fuck out about the reasonably so and I think at some point, when I'm like the sixth time, I was like this is a ridiculous conversation fair enough yeah, yeah but I think you saw it as me crumbling where.
Speaker 2:For me it's like this is my baseline. I've been like a neurotic jew since I was like two years old and to me this feels normal and I get it like I. You know, you were like 33 when I came into your life and I'm just this like ball of neurotic energy and you are not used to it.
Speaker 2:And, yeah, I think you're doing a great job getting used to it. But yeah, I know intellectually, even in that moment, that like five or 10 minutes from that, I'll be like doing my editing or making a playlist or like engaging with you about something, and you know totally fine. But like it's like I need to have these little spirals. And I don't know, maybe I don't need to have these little spirals, but I seem to need to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, they're okay, it can be a dialectic right. Right, You're, you're human, you're going to go into that place and we can make space for it and work on it and yeah yeah, acceptance and change. We're always working yeah we here for you we here for you. Yeah, I think josh tense when it went into stress and not coping well with it goes more toward leans into his anxiety and I probably lean a little more into anger. Yeah, we know that. Yeah, I have a rage.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So yeah, there is wiser than the other, and I think I could probably afford to be more angry. Yeah, I don't know if you could afford to be more anxious.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, mine's maybe more like vulnerable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure.
Speaker 1:Mom, yeah, mine's maybe more like vulnerable, yeah, open in those moments, um yeah, but anyway, so that I mean we're gonna do these mini episodes every so often we won't just like talk about our mental health. The whole time we'll talk about different things and sometimes maybe we'll even like sing a song about a cool movie we saw and how wise man relates, and you know yeah sing a song, compose a song compose a song rap.
Speaker 2:yeah, but a song Rap.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but not today. Not today, but yeah, thanks so much for joining us for this. Yeah, and we're recording on a Friday. I know these come out on a Monday, but yeah, hopefully everyone's having a good Monday, good rest of the week and we'll see you for a regular episode with John and Joshosh producing next time. So thanks everyone. And again, if you want to work with me, you can find me at kk psychotherapycom. You can shoot me an inquiry there.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah and if you want to get in touch with josh, if you're in the documentary film world yeah, why am I forgetting my website? Josh bear film oh thanks yeah, wwwjoshbearfilmscom.
Speaker 2:That's j-o-s-h-b-a-y-e-r, like the aspirin f-i-l-m-scom, josh bear films. You can email me at a j-r-b-a-y-e-r-8-9 at gmailcom and, uh, I will edit pretty much anything within reason and film most things too, and direct if you really want me to yeah, josh is incredible. I'm okay at lighting yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So your podcast, your anything, your your social media account. Yeah, a film you're making your board game sizzle yeah, josh has endless energy, so your driver's that video he's about to be on two other documentaries yeah, shoot him an inquiry, not simultaneously. Yeah, one after the other yeah, almost simultaneously, almost simultaneously, so we know it simultaneously.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know how to pronounce most words. Don't write in Josh needs help, but oh and, as always, intro and outro music by Blanket.
Speaker 1:Forts.
Speaker 2:Yes, thank you, blanket. Forts Love the side project Spectro jammers of his. I think I might like it more than blanket forts lately. Don't tell him I said that but I told him that less than a week ago. So he's doing great. He's doing great things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, and we'll be back soon. Thanks everyone.
Speaker 2:Later.
Speaker 1:Wise mind Happy hour podcast is for entertainment purposes only, not to be treated as medical advice. If you are struggling with your mental health, please seek medical attention or counseling.