The Wise Mind Happy Hour
Two therapists musing about the idea of an inner wise mind and how to connect with this psychic space in different contexts.
The Wise Mind Happy Hour
The Wisdom of Having Your Own Back
Have you ever found yourself "going to the hardware store for milk?" Or - more specifically - seeking validation from those who are simply unable to provide it? THEN THIS EPISODE IS FOR YOU. Learn how to have your own back when others aren't quite cutting the mustard...very wise, indeed.
- music by blanket forts -
okay, well, welcome to the wise mind happy hour podcast. I'm kelly, as always and I'm john.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's good to be back in the in studio yeah, it's great to be back in studio.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, today we're gonna talk about well, we're talking about a couple things what are we talking about to it? Our topic really is like the idea of having your own back.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, but first we'll kind of we'll check in what's been going on with you lately, john well, the reason I wasn't at the last recording was because I had mentioned to you all pre-show I was hiking, which is not like an ongoing hobby of mine, but I visited a really good college friend, tommy, who I do want to get on the pod at some point, and he's excited about it.
Speaker 2:Oh good, he's an educator, teacher, extraordinaire jack of all trades. So I went out and visited him and we went on a hike or a bunch of different hikes at Starved Rock, which was really fun. So, it was great he just got married, so congratulations to him. Wow, congrats.
Speaker 2:I know, speaking of weddings, so they did a wedding out in Arizona and they're doing a party this summer, so we get to celebrate with him. But I was able to see him and so we visited and he's also a very avid game player board game player. So, yeah, taught me some new board games.
Speaker 1:So cool Is he, is that his second marriage?
Speaker 2:This is his second marriage, oh nice.
Speaker 1:Cause I feel like I asked you about it before and he said he had kids.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, he does have kids. I think his oldest is a junior in high school.
Speaker 1:Wow, so yeah, he did.
Speaker 2:Yeah so so yeah, he did yeah. So he has three kids. I think his youngest is in sixth grade.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And his daughter might be in eighth grade maybe a freshman.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So you know what's funny about this.
Speaker 2:What is funny about?
Speaker 1:this Not about his situation. It sounds beautiful and lovely, but this is kind of an only famous thing in my pop culture circle at the podcast I listen to. But apparently Gwyneth Paltrow on her podcast did an episode on step parenting.
Speaker 2:Step parenting.
Speaker 1:With her husband, who's her second husband. They each have kids.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:And apparently it's a really good episode. I'm gonna listen to it. But the two people who were talking about it, one of them was like three weeks away from getting married and she was like I'm listening to the podcast, like I cannot wait to become a step parent, and I was like I was like it is funny when you hear someone talk so consciously about something, you're like I hope I have the opportunity to do that. But obviously she's like I'm three weeks away from getting married, like hopefully I am never a step parent, but like apparently gwyneth paltrow and her husband like had such a such kind of a mindful way of approaching it and they were so vulnerable in like the mistakes they made with it.
Speaker 1:I gotta listen to the episode and I'll have more to say on it in this podcast when I do. But it made me laugh because I was like that is such a like. I feel like I'll get sucked into Gwyneth Paltrow's like orbit and then it's like all the things she does. I'm like I have to do that. I have to do some version of that. And it's funny thinking of step-parenting. You have to do a version of step-parenting now. I have to become a step-parent. You're like God that sounds amazing.
Speaker 2:How could I get?
Speaker 1:there. How could I get to?
Speaker 2:step-parenting, but yeah, which was really nice. Yeah, weather's changing a little bit, yeah, so that was kind of like my last weekend which took me away from the podcast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, unfortunately, which happens, that's okay.
Speaker 2:Put him back. That's okay. Back and better than ever. What about you?
Speaker 1:Good, I've been good, yeah what have we been up to? I mean we celebrated passover with josh's family, so we went up to west bloomfield, michigan, um, where josh is from did you see vj? Yeah, I know you'd think maybe we'd catch vj buddies. What if one day we run into vj in west bloomfield?
Speaker 2:I mean I will for those of you who don't know, go back a few episodes. Our first guest, vj Kilanani, is from that area, I believe, or exactly from that place, I don't remember Bloomfield Hills.
Speaker 3:Is he from West Bloomfield? He's from Bloomfield Hills, I believe. Is he not from West Bloomfield? Is?
Speaker 1:he. Maybe he's from Bloomfield Hills. Check the tapes.
Speaker 2:I think he said Josh go to check the tape. We bonded over this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, I can't. I have no memory.
Speaker 2:It was a huge part of that episode that everyone's spaced out on but it was great. No, I'm kidding, I'm pretty sure he is from exactly that area.
Speaker 3:He loves buddy's pizza.
Speaker 2:Yeah, confirmed it would be funny if you go back there and you see him.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, I would die.
Speaker 2:But anyway, you were there celebrating.
Speaker 1:We were there, we were celebrating, which was nice. Josh's family does like a, I guess. Maybe you know this better than me, of course, but maybe for a reform ceremony it was kind of a longer one.
Speaker 3:I guess it was long. We got a new book, yeah, and it had a lot of fun chants.
Speaker 1:What do they call the book Prayer oh God. Oh God, right, Okay, yes.
Speaker 3:I'm forgetting what were the new things that had. It was your first, so you wouldn't know.
Speaker 1:Well, I read through the one Sarah's family. Yes, Sarah news cable Shout out to Sarah and her family Shorter shorter.
Speaker 3:it was a kid's version, and I had heard some of these songs before, but they hadn't made their way into our satyr in the past. Yeah, what was it? Frogs on the floor and frogs in your hair. Something about was there's the plagues, the 10 plagues. Frogs is one of them. We got a whole song about frogs and we sang that over the weekend for like 30 seconds, but those seconds add up.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I think people just kept seeing things in the book and they're like, oh, this is fun.
Speaker 2:Kelly, were you present?
Speaker 3:I'm like, wow, how did I?
Speaker 1:miss that. Yeah, but now that you're saying it, there was some like funny rhyme song Mm-hmm, but I don't think you were quoting it exactly.
Speaker 3:No, I was quoting it.
Speaker 2:Kelly is drawing a blank right now on this she just knows I was wrong.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was thinking about how christ died for us maybe joking, joking, I don't know.
Speaker 1:So you were with family, you celebrated yes, we were, um, we were with, yeah, your family, and we were there for the weekend, which was really fun and really nice. Um, and we went to a restaurant and I can safely say I experienced the best french fries I've ever had in my entire life, my 36 years on this earth.
Speaker 2:Those were the single best french fries I've ever had statement I'll be chasing that dragon until we meet again, you know you going to name the place or keep us all guessing?
Speaker 3:Yeah, the place is called Mabel Gray. Yes, shout out, mabel Gray.
Speaker 1:So great Shout out.
Speaker 3:Colin Ward from high school, who I went to high school with. Yeah. That's been working at Mabel Gray for eight years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the host was Josh's friend from high school, from theater in high school, and he sent over not one but three free desserts, which is really nice extremely nice.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what made?
Speaker 2:these french fries. So I asked the waitress and she was like give me a, give me a description like what was the cut I would say they were a medium cut okay, not a steak fry not a thin fry, not even a sort of thin fry like pretty straight across medium.
Speaker 1:Like the crispiest. They actually were almost kind of red in color which like was that the lighting.
Speaker 3:Was it the pecorino?
Speaker 1:And there was pecorino and rosemary on them, but I don't think that's what made them so good. I thought she was going to tell me they're cooked in like beef tallow, or they're like yeah but she was like no, she's like, they're just like fried potatoes with like rosemary, pecorino and salt, and I was like that can't be right something I mean, maybe they like triple fry them or something.
Speaker 1:I would believe that because they were so crispy, or maybe they use, you know, 10 times the fat in them, which is also possible because they sound great it was like otherworldly, how good those fries were nice that restaurant was great and I love going to one of those restaurants where the staff is so nice and they go above and beyond, like your friend and like the waitress and whatever. So that was a highlight for sure excellent and really we've been working on that and doing wedding stuff, you know, getting ready. We're seven weeks.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:From D-Day.
Speaker 2:It's close.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's interesting because the last time I talked to my parents they brought up your wedding because they're going to be watching my kids. Fun, Because they're going to be watching my kids.
Speaker 3:Fun.
Speaker 2:And I was like, oh, that's already, we're already on that like conversation, and they're like, yeah, we have it on the calendar. And I was like, great, but that just shows that we're like in orbit.
Speaker 1:Oh so fun, I love hearing that because it's like people are making their plans.
Speaker 2:It's getting close. Wow, super exciting.
Speaker 1:I love it. It's going their plants it's getting close. Wow, super exciting. I love it.
Speaker 2:It's gonna be so great I definitely we have to like get to it with some things for sure did you get your car.
Speaker 1:Yet we got a call today really it's ready tomorrow are you picking it up tomorrow. So no, because I he told he didn't offer tomorrow as an option, because I think they have to inspect it once it lands in the States.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:He was saying that he's like when it's assembled overseas.
Speaker 2:They have to give it a physical.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they basically have to give it a physical.
Speaker 2:Turning off.
Speaker 1:A once over and then so he's like Thursday, friday or Saturday. So for us what worked best is Saturday. So we're going to go pick it up on Saturday, great.
Speaker 2:So for us what worked best is Saturday, so we're going to go pick it up on Saturday.
Speaker 1:Great, can't wait to get a ride in it. Oh, can't wait to give you a ride in it. I mean, our lives will change.
Speaker 2:I feel like we talked about this in almost like the first episode.
Speaker 1:I know it's been a long time coming. And we had wondered if it was going to come.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, it'll be here. It's been nine months it's been cooking in the oven.
Speaker 1:Well, really because these tariffs, like we didn't know if we got in under the wire.
Speaker 1:But then I was feeling better lately because a few people are like are talking about, in the next couple months people will be panic buying and I'm like, oh, we've literally already put a deposit on this car. So if other people are panic buying, trying to get in under the wire, then we've got to be under the wire. So, yeah, I'm feeling good. I also like when we were on our way to Michigan I was like should I be panic buying an iPhone? Because my phone is, you know, on its last leg, and I was like I heard that Apple airlifted six tons of iPhones out of India.
Speaker 2:I read that same article. I'm sure that was circulated everywhere. Yeah for sure, iPhones out of it. I read that same article. I'm sure that was circulated everywhere Totally.
Speaker 1:But then they just lifted them and someone else was saying they're like, they're going to kind of lift all of them. It's going to be like mayhem for a bit, but it's probably not going to be long term. It's just a little bit of chaos for show.
Speaker 2:It's pretty chaos-y. It's pretty chaos-y. Things are getting a little weird. Who pretty chaosy things are getting a little weird. Who knows what'll happen, but I'm feeling better. I'm definitely feeling glad we got a foreign-made car. Yeah, that we really wanted, toyota, yeah hands.
Speaker 1:This is what our episode is about. Yeah, it's about the toyota factory, toyota company.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's always the joke.
Speaker 1:We're gonna go political at some point, we're gonna go hard into the politics um.
Speaker 2:Could you imagine?
Speaker 1:oh my god, you're talking about it, yeah it would be like katie perry talking about space. Did you see that? Video uh no, she went to space today. Did you know that?
Speaker 2:oh the blue origins oh right, yeah, something about that.
Speaker 1:That didn't really interest me, so I didn't really I mean that's a good call because I also saw so many people had really negative reactions to them going to space, because why? Well, that's just it. It was people couldn't figure it out.
Speaker 2:She said that.
Speaker 1:And then there's a video of, like, all the women thanking, like we're so excited to go. They're like thank you everyone for supporting us. And then one of the women says thank you for healing us and everyone's like healing us like what?
Speaker 2:healing, going to space, like who sent them to space so blue origin. So that's jeff bezos oh right, so his wife was one of the crew members, or his, his fiance is it one of those things where, like they go up, they can float for a while?
Speaker 1:and then they come right back down. Yeah, 11 minutes, and then they come back down.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's considered space.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's considered space.
Speaker 2:Why.
Speaker 1:I don't know.
Speaker 2:What's the threshold for space?
Speaker 1:Yeah, once you get out of Earth's atmosphere.
Speaker 2:When you don't have any gravity anymore, but no, because you can train on airplanes that have zero gravity. So I wonder what the distance is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, they said 62 miles above Earth.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's how far Katy Perry went, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yes, that's the definition of space, and when? Josh?
Speaker 1:and I last night treated ourselves to a video of her talking about space. That was absolutely could we legally play this on the pod.
Speaker 3:I don't think we could, yeah, probably not Should we act it out?
Speaker 1:It was nuts.
Speaker 2:That's incredible though that so it was, was she the most famous person on this?
Speaker 1:Yeah, probably. Lauren Sanchez is probably the next most famous his and so she paid, or they paid her to do this, she paid, I believe yeah, probably a hefty fee.
Speaker 2:She has like a lot of good material for a new album yeah, she already wrote a song called et was orlando bloom on the ground watching like a cape, like aal kind of situation.
Speaker 3:She's married to him, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the fact that they even could pull that shows.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, they're together. They've been together for a while, yeah.
Speaker 1:They seem so loyal.
Speaker 2:Wow, I'm going to look into that. After this podcast, I'm going to look into that. Yeah, the Carrie, carrie Perry.
Speaker 3:The Carrie Perry Carrie.
Speaker 2:Perry, oh, they send.
Speaker 1:Harry Carey too, That'd be great Katy Perry and Harry Carey. Yeah, the Blue Origins space team, which is like the Jeff Bezos version of.
Speaker 2:SpaceX. Yeah right, that could be the title of her next album, katy Perry and Harry Carey.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in space, in space.
Speaker 2:Add it, it's like Muppets in space and Katy Perry in space. Yeah, in space.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like Muppets in space and Katy Perry in space. Wow, good God. It's like it's almost like dark. You know that, like that's in this mayhem of this world. We're just like sending Katy Perry to space.
Speaker 2:Not only are we. It's one thing to send it, but it's are we supposed to care?
Speaker 3:Yes, I don't know we're being asked to care Clearly. I don't know that's we're being asked, clearly.
Speaker 1:I have some level of interest morbid interest.
Speaker 3:I heard you re-listening to it today I think to your point of like.
Speaker 2:With all the mayhem going on, we have to care about this exactly.
Speaker 1:It's like what?
Speaker 3:this is what we have.
Speaker 1:Part of me wanders over to this insanity, so I don't have to deal with the more direct yeah, it distances yourself yeah, yeah, yeah, but it's not that far removed. I mean, it is jeff bezos, jeff bezos exactly like using wow yeah, yeah, pretty pretty kooky stuff I'm gonna look that up later.
Speaker 2:You need to transition us nicely. I won't transition us at all, but there's no way to transition now.
Speaker 1:But we will do it Um yeah, so tell me more about this concept of yeah, so the concept again is this idea of having your own back, and I was thinking, you know this has been coming up for me, definitely coming up for a lot of my clients and coming up kind of like perennially for a lot of my clients. You know, like in certain like what are moments where this is, let's say, this is like hard for me or you to have your own back. Or like clients you've dealt with, even friends or whatever loved ones you've dealt with, where maybe like they're suffering or you're suffering over a situation and having a hard time taking the step or pausing and doing the work of first having your own back in a situation.
Speaker 1:And I was thinking Josh and I were talking about this earlier and I have a situation currently where I'm feeling I'm being misunderstood and I'm A lot of times what I'll get caught in in that place is like trying so hard to get people to understand me, validate me, oftentimes agree with me as a means of like resolution of something. Sometimes, if I don't get that I will I mean not even sometimes like I almost do this every time for at least a period in the situation, but really like raging against not being understood, not being seen in, like a pain that I'm going through, not being given space to be kind of emotionally a mess about something, mm-hmm, and I think I really I get so indignant and willful in that place Like it's just, it can't be this way, mm-hmm, and you know, trying to like give them my understanding of it and like foster that into someone Understand me, get me.
Speaker 2:And in that way is it that you feel like they're, because they're not in it with you or not understanding, or not hearing you. They're not showing up for you, so you have to show up for yourself. You have to have your own back.
Speaker 1:Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 1:Got it Exactly, yeah.
Speaker 1:And and you know, I almost like in the aftermath, like and I I always feel this in the aftermath of these moments they are real opportunities to connect to your wise mind, which, having your own back, is exactly that Letting go of needing the outside to see you understand you, validate you, fix you, rescue you.
Speaker 1:And it's like, can I sit back into this sense that I understand myself, I see myself, I can really get myself here and sometimes forgive myself and that is enough. That is this like fortifying energy that will take me through any context, no matter how hospitable or not. And you know, it's funny like I'm thinking about being with you, josh, and you know, like when you and I go through something or I'm hurting and I turn to you for understanding, I get that, you know, because you are able to give me that and we are able to talk to each other and through maybe first some conflict or some willfulness or some whatever heightened emotion. Once we're through that, I get that understanding from you and it feels really healing to get it and brings us so much closer. But there are like relationships I think everyone is going to have where, like that is not on the table.
Speaker 1:That's not an option. And it's so painful and I find myself you know it's like what do they say, like trying to trying to get go to a hardware store for milk. You know it's like what do they say, like trying to trying to get go to a hardware store for milk.
Speaker 3:You know yeah.
Speaker 1:And and like where's the milk that dried up?
Speaker 2:well, yes, it's never going to give you water and you still put that bucket down.
Speaker 1:And I'm still strolling in there every day and it's it's like recognizing that and going to the place of like. How do I come to myself and enter that state of the wise mind, right when you know the part of me inside that can handle when I'm misunderstood, it may hurt, it may not be ideal, but can handle that experience. And I think when I get there and do a lot of letting go of the outside or radically accepting the outside, I do feel like a great sense of peace. But it's a hard thing and it can be a hard thing to also, like, guide my clients toward yeah I'm curious for you what's?
Speaker 2:coming up with yeah, well, I mean certainly that idea of like showing up for yourself, and I think sometimes it's situationally where, based in the sense of like nobody's there to show up for you in a certain context.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you have to, as a person, just take that step. I'm thinking of two instances and it it's happened twice in my life. Um, in working with my own therapist I'll always remember um not here to sean cox, my own therapist. He, um you, I was really struggling. When I got out of graduate school I found a job and kind of like fast-tracked into more of managerial and then I had a staff and then I was like I had like three residential facilities, four residential facilities that I was managing and I was on this like fast track to being like a director and the more I did that, the further away I got from actually meeting with any type of patients or clients. I was just dealing with all of these fires and preparing for regulatory bodies and doing all these things.
Speaker 2:And I remember just being miserable doing it and my therapist, you know he said I always remember this in one of our sessions was like the things we're good at are not always good for us.
Speaker 2:It was a very profound thing for me to think about. But people are telling me I'm I'm good at this and so I was really fused to the idea it should be good for me, because people are telling me and and that required me to do a lot of thinking about, not that I wanted anybody to fix it, but nobody's going to show up for you in this Like people are still going to tell you you're good at it and you can continue doing this if you want. And I was certainly getting paid more money by doing that than just meeting with patients. But I ended up showing up for myself and in having a meeting with my vp and saying like this is not right for me, like I want to take a different position elsewhere in the company you know, and they they were understanding, but also kind of like we're not gonna pay you the same amount.
Speaker 2:I was like I'm not looking for that. It was kind of like me having to explain almost like this is not it within my values anymore. I'm getting further away what's truly like a wise decision for me and I'm like suffering in it and then fast forward to another position I took. The exact same thing happened. I was in a role where I had staff and everything like that, and the exact same thing happened.
Speaker 2:I came to this crossroads where I was like I am anxious and it's becoming debilitating and it's like it's further away from why I got into this field and it was like I have to show up for myself and what I know what's true to me, because I'm like almost faking it again or something yeah, I don't know, I don't know if that's what you're talking about totally.
Speaker 1:But I think that's such an interesting situation because I mean we've both. We're both therapists yeah so, like you might think, we work in like company cultures that are really like wise and evolved and and it how quickly it can become kind of corporate and people do really misunderstand you if you make a choice that is like value aligned, but not financial gain focused, you know, or whatever, or like achievement focused, like people or title focused or title focused.
Speaker 1:a lot of people are like wait, what? And it's funny because it's like so antithetical to what we teach and what we cultivate in the therapy space. But yeah, there can be a lot of like being misunderstood, yeah.
Speaker 2:And even showing up for myself and not having to explain that decision to people I worked with.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think a lot of. If I'm truly reflecting back in both of those scenarios, I think people were quick to assume something happened. Or, like John, is it a health issue? Why is he stepping away from this? Why, like what's going on with him? Did he get in trouble? I think people were very quick to cancel that.
Speaker 1:What is it canceled, yeah?
Speaker 2:totally nowhere on anybody's radar. Was it something of like oh, maybe this is a good move for him? Yeah, like that, that didn't really enter into the equation.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:He's making a decision that's thought out and he's showing up for himself in a way you know using that terminology, or you know having his own back that, like this, is the right move for him. So it was interesting because some people did outright come up to me and just come, are you okay? What's going on? What happened? I think there was trepidation, though I think people assumed the worst yeah as opposed to no.
Speaker 2:Actually this is opening my life up to, and especially the second iteration, when it happened like I had just we just had wes, my oldest, and I mean it was like again, it was like cripp, like anxiety and stress from the job and it was like I don't want to bring this home, I can't, I can't do this. You know, it's like not lining up with what's important to me yeah.
Speaker 1:So how do you looking back on that, how do you feel like if you did, if you were? Able to have your own back through people's like questions or judgment or gossip or whatever, or even maybe direct pushback. How do you feel like you found that spine of your own. You know having your own back.
Speaker 2:I think it was being just being honest and saying I didn't, I don't want to do it anymore. Yeah, it wasn't meaningful. I was I and I ripped off my therapist's quote. I said maybe I was good at it. It wasn't good for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It just wasn't good for me, yeah, and what's interesting is, the more I would tell people about that, the more I would hear God, that sounds great, like you just kind of like of like show, like it was a choice to just do that. Yeah, um, not everybody, I'm sure. Some people probably just said that and were probably like he's an idiot he could have just continued to move up the ladder or whatever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it was just really being authentic and being honest and saying this wasn't good. You know, I know that's a judgment good, but like this was ruining my, like, stress level, my anxiety level, my ability to be more present and my, you know everything and it was impacting everything. I was a part of my marriage, my being a parent, new parent, yeah, parent. In that iteration of my life, the iteration before that, the first time it happened, it was more of just like being miserable day to day at work yeah.
Speaker 2:I was like I didn't go to school to do this. I was passionate about working in the therapy space, yeah, yeah and like care. So I think that was also something that was. Grounding is like why did you do this?
Speaker 1:Or, you know, standing, you know having my own back was honest version of yourself and loving yourself through that can be a real force field through the rest of the world in any kind of environment, even hostile ones. You know, and a lot of times with clients, that finding that can take a lot of different forms Like first, we, you know and I have to do this for myself like honoring the pain, as always, you know, being misunderstood. Or, you know, like not being seen, not not being given, like the love that makes you really feel loved, really like appreciating and seeing that part of you that's in that pain. And then looking like how do I then identify how I'm coping with this? Probably poorly, like for me coping by, like marching in that hardware store looking for the milk, demanding to be understood, you know, going to you and just talking over and over about being misunderstood and how bullshit it is and crying Not, that crying is a negative coping mechanism, but suffering.
Speaker 1:I definitely suffer and will get in a loop.
Speaker 2:So then, yeah, how do you find your back in that? Yeah?
Speaker 1:Well even still there's even more suffering I do, whereas I'll turn to self-doubt what did I do? Do I not understand myself? Does this person actually understand me? Even further suffering, and then I'll get to the place. Usually. It usually follows that right Like they're wrong, and then it's like wait, am I wrong? And tons of pain around that and tons of pain around that. And then usually having to really journey through that pain, be sad, be anxious sometimes so anxious I feel almost like I can't function. And then eventually and once I like slow down and get more still, usually that wise mind comes up and I have to really kind of look at like where am I in this? Like this is around me.
Speaker 1:What is the necessary task that the client will not do, which is me right In this case. What is the necessary task in front of me that I am refusing to do? And I was realizing, like it's radical acceptance. It's like radical, radical, radical acceptance of this moment and where the distance between me and this other person, our lack of being on the same page and like in my heart, really accepting that that I don't actually need to get them to see me, to get them to understand me, to be on the same page as them. We can be on different pages and I can honor the page I'm on, hold it as valid, and there's usually a bit of grief that comes there. I was just going to say it sounds like a grief process, totally what you're describing.
Speaker 1:Totally and that definitely has come up for me and yeah, just like grieving the fantasy version where I'm understood and it feels so good yeah, more like acceptance and and letting something kind of dissipate and die and realize like it's okay if we're on different pages, it's okay and yeah, it's like a lengthy process.
Speaker 2:but yeah, I wonder if there's a version of it where people are so unapologetically themselves and showing up in an authentic way that they just not that they don't care, but almost an air of like they don't care, if people understand them yeah it's like important in a way.
Speaker 2:I'm just thinking of like one end of that spectrum of like someone who's so unapologetically themselves yeah, yes like, so authentically themselves, and that they I'm going to be understood, maybe I'm not, but and I'm true to who I am and there's like, almost like, no hesitation, they're acting from like I mean, I feel like envy thinking about that person. I know so do I. I don't know anybody like that, I'm just wondering you know what this makes me think, josh?
Speaker 1:Actually no.
Speaker 2:I do. My youngest son is really into this Netflix special called Sprint and it's about the sprinters who run like the 100-meter dash.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And 200-meter, and one of these sprinters is just so confident and almost like just showing up in a way. That's like so and you kind of have to have that to do this type of you know to be any elite athlete, probably. But now that I'm speaking about it, maybe that's what's coming to my, that's somewhere in my mind right now, cause we've been watching this show, but he's so unapologetically himself and confident, and some people understand it, some people don't.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and he just kind of still moves through it. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean. Certainly it's small. I don't really know him what, the way they're portraying it, though is.
Speaker 1:He's just not bothered by it.
Speaker 2:You know God to be unbothered. Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know what's making me think we were? We love this podcast podcast called straighto lab, which is these two um gay comedians who like talk about straight topics and like what makes them straight. It's very funny. But they were like talking about the idea of confidence and they were like you think confidence is like someone who kind of like lives out loud and they're like whatever. They're like. Real confidence is like when you go over to a guy's house and he just like goes on his computer in front of you and like doesn't care, doesn't care it's awkward for you and I'm like I hear what they're saying.
Speaker 1:They're like someone who's just kind of like oh, oh yeah, you're here, you know. Like they're just sort of like living and they're living.
Speaker 2:They got their own back they got their own back.
Speaker 1:And I'm like man, I, because I know myself when people are over, I'm like and can I get you a this and do you want to sit? And it's like attention, that doesn't have to be there. It's like I love that idea of just like yeah, you know I'm on the computer, like whatever. I think it's so nice.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, and like it's almost like stripped away of all unnecessary things. Yes, yeah, there's like a simple not simple, that's not the right word like pure, a pure, maybe form of that totally I really like fantasize about being someone who's so much less bothered by things I am always bothered by like everything.
Speaker 3:I mean actually I will say like the call is coming the call is coming from inside the house it's like I really get bothered.
Speaker 1:But I will say like, actually, after I go through the cycle that I just mentioned, sometimes on that back end I find that that is where my wisest mind lives. I get in this prolonged state of wise mind when I've been through that kind of turmoil and found that kind of wisdom and peace.
Speaker 1:And it does then feel like the trauma itself is meaningful and there is this opportunity within it like the deepest connection to self. And I do experience that where it's like I'm less bothered by things after something like that, but I'm sure I'll get bothered again.
Speaker 2:Well, I hope you also, you know validate the times you have shown up for yourself. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally and had your own back yeah, definitely, because I know we were talking pre-game about times that I've noticed that you, you did, and yeah, yes, you know it's important for you to situation yeah for you to remember that yeah definitely and yeah, for me it like it's also not that cliche of like I'm gonna do this and tell off the bus.
Speaker 1:It's like usually a lot more like, you know, it's a lot more like I'm going to slow down and like reach into my heart and like give myself a hug. Really it's a version of like, of warmth to the part of me that's like aching and sad and so alone and you know I'm going to hold my own hand through this and that I always find the most peace there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's less dissonance there. If you know it's true to who you are and you know not, that it's not difficult.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's just to me. My experience is that I feel more contentment, calm. It's still uncomfortable and knowing that it's, you know, whether it be value aligned or wise mind or all of those things, you did it because it was important and because it was you being there for yourself, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, totally yeah.
Speaker 2:It was important and because it was you being there for yourself, right? Yeah, yeah, totally, yeah. So well, I got your back, even when you don't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I got your back too. I'm lucky to be here with two men that have been understanding of me and not been on the opposite pages well, I still don't understand the katie perry of it all.
Speaker 2:I don't have your back on that. I'll have to look into it.
Speaker 1:I don't have her back on that that's all right, though, but she's got our backs, but she's up there, healing all of us from space, from space 62 miles above earth oh my god, it will never stop being insane that that happened. But anyway, that maybe is our, our segue over segue, segue over to our. How wise is it today? Which comes to us from john's son, wes?
Speaker 2:I know you're out there listen, he's not listening, but I'll play him this segment. So my son wes, he came up with this how wise is a question which I wrote. I forgot it at first and then I was like it's really good, totally going to remember it. And then the next day I was like what's? I didn't remember it and he was like no, so we finally came back to it.
Speaker 1:But yes, today is how wise is the question?
Speaker 2:is how wise is it to?
Speaker 1:have a smart watch. Wow, how is it? Yes, thank you, wes, for such a great question. How wise is it to have a smart watch? Well, I'll start by saying I do not have one and I've never owned one, unless a um fitbit counts.
Speaker 2:I don't think it does see. This is where this is where it gets muddy. I have a watch that keeps track of my steps it keeps track of my heartbeat rhythms romantic. It's a romantic watch it keeps track of my sleep. It does not when I think of a smart watch. I it keeps track of my sleep. It does not when I think of a smartwatch.
Speaker 1:I guess I think more of a watch where you can have your email.
Speaker 2:You can make phone calls from it. It's almost like a little bit more high-tech. So, all of that to be said, I don't know if I consider a Fitbit necessarily. What Wes was intending. I think his intention was a watch where you could have apps, access to text message and things like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because he said to me in developing this question. This was very thought out. He said you know, if you just had a smartwatch, you wouldn't need a phone. And I was like, well, I was like there's a, maybe a version of that, and then I kind of told him the the reasons I needed my phone. So that's what kind of led into this discussion, so his understanding of a smart watch, which I think is good for this conversation totally.
Speaker 1:I have attempted to talk to my mom on her smartphone and it is like talking to someone going through a tunnel.
Speaker 2:It's crazy you mean a smart watch, iphone?
Speaker 1:yeah, oh yeah, sorry I apple watch, watch apple watch yes.
Speaker 2:So anyway, I don't think a fitbit or something that keeps track of like your health is necessarily yep, a smart watch, though it is smart yeah yeah, it's got to be like a mini computer. Do you think that would be wise for you to have your emails buzzing on your wrist all the time?
Speaker 1:I? I mean, for me it doesn't matter, because I don't check my email.
Speaker 2:Wait, are you one of those people that has like the?
Speaker 3:red number.
Speaker 2:Remember Rocket Chat? Yes, I do. The red number next to your emails and it says like 11,000.
Speaker 1:That's me, I'm that guy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's me, I'm that guy so, but the smartwatch would possibly still go off or buzz if you got a new one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I'm curious for Josh's relationship to smartwatch.
Speaker 2:Do you have one?
Speaker 3:No, smartwatch.
Speaker 2:Do you have a watch?
Speaker 3:No watch.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:I would love to get you a nice watch one day, but I fear that you would never wear it. I'm going to wear a wedding ring a wedding band?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we'll just stop it right there. That's enough accessory. Yeah, enough accessory.
Speaker 3:Enough appendagement on my digits?
Speaker 1:Yes, totally, totally sure.
Speaker 3:My physical digits Totally. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I don't, well, I don't know. I used to wear a watch. I used to wear a baby G.
Speaker 2:When you were young.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and the leather would kind of be tight on my wrist. It would make it sweat, and then I'd take it off and kind of smell the sweat on my wrist.
Speaker 1:Oh, my god it was an obsessive ritual. You're sick.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm a little sick puppy, so now I wear no. Watch Smarter, stupid and no ritual.
Speaker 2:I just think it would make me highly anxious, it wouldn't be wise for me. I don't know. It might be wise for certain people. I think it's not wise for me. It would lean me more into more of an emotional place, because I feel like I'm constantly checking it. Yeah, I'm constantly. My wrist is constantly buzzing yeah and then it would make me probably check my phone more, because if I saw like the title of it, or just like the first couple words of it.
Speaker 2:I'd be like, oh god, I gotta read this now yeah also, I don't know how wise it is to like wear them in social situations oh, it looks like you're looking at your phone.
Speaker 1:People are looking at their watch constantly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember going out for drinks with a friend of mine a while back. Every other minute he was like flicking yep, doing the flick on the watch which was a little bit like can you just stop that, just take it off for a little bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think I'm actually like really against them, to be honest.
Speaker 2:Okay, so not wise at all. We're lean and not wise.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I feel like when I have clients who have them, it looks like they're constantly distracted.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, that's a huge distraction.
Speaker 1:And you bring it into spaces where looking at your phone would be inappropriate.
Speaker 2:Do you bring that up, do you?
Speaker 1:address that with them.
Speaker 2:Totally and say knock it off.
Speaker 1:So that.
Speaker 2:I don't like, just like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Like hey, absolutely knock that off. I'll notice that piece. And then also, like they're checking their phone more, they're more glued to their phone. They then also like they're checking their phone more they're more glued to their phone.
Speaker 2:They're more glued to just all of the things that the phone holds.
Speaker 1:I'm also I'm a little bit against too much of the health data too, because, oh yeah, like I have clients who obsess about their sleep and if they read that their sleep wasn't good yeah they have this cognitive distortion that their whole day is off which isn't actually how it works right the body knows how to compensate in the short term especially. Same goes with food and with binging and whatever it's like if you binge your body, if you can listen intuitively to the body will know what to do with that caloric intake yeah and well, the same thing with the steps.
Speaker 2:I mean, sarah works, yeah, my sarah. Uh, my wife works with you know eating disorders, and and the same thing with steps.
Speaker 1:How much energy I'm burning, yeah, I mean, so becomes addictive, for sure, to measure and measure and measure and it's like the more you're measuring, the more you're trying to control, and so much of our work is helping people let go of control, trust themselves right, have their own back and march forward through life, like without having to know, like outcomes and numbers and data, and there are people who can use it judiciously and it. I don't think it's so wise. It can be smart because it is a smart watch.
Speaker 2:It is smart, but it's not a wise watch yeah. I don't think it's a wise watch. That's a good distinction Smart watch, not a wise watch, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:We'll save the wise watches for dial.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just a straight up dial watch. Yeah, an analog watch.
Speaker 2:Analog Is that what they call it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we should market a wise watch.
Speaker 1:Yeah, ooh, and then we become super into it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Wise watch is just like be present.
Speaker 3:That's all it ever says. Yeah, be present. Yeah, impressive, it's just a watch.
Speaker 2:Yeah, be present. Yeah, it speaks to you. Yeah, totally. It's like one of those clocks that at every five it says now yeah, I kind of like that you're in the present. You're in the present now well, wes, I'm never gonna get a smart watch. I think we've established yeah, I think I knew that prior to this question. Yeah, I think this has cemented it. For me it's not for me.
Speaker 1:It's not a wise decision for me, yeah, but what wes?
Speaker 2:I was said wise wes gets to make his own decision, right yeah, we will let him do that when he's when he's 18, he can start thinking for himself okay but yes, he can take this for what it's worth. Everybody you know to each their own. Some people probably use it wisely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally yeah, and write in if you do please write in. Yeah, cause we'll be curious about that.
Speaker 2:I'm sure people like feel staunchly protective of their yeah, and we would gladly read and want to engage with that discourse as well.
Speaker 1:Prove us wrong. Pro wrong. Prove us wrong. That it's wise sponsor us. Hey, why not we're?
Speaker 2:going to space, yeah we're trying to get to space, come on.
Speaker 1:Sponsored by amazon? We're not, we're not, we're not. Okay, thank you so much everyone, as always. Thanks for listening yeah, and if you want to um find me, you can look me up on my website. Kk psych sorry, kk psychotherapycom um and you can shoot me up on my website, kksychotherapycom, and you can shoot me an inquiry there. And yeah, john, any plugs.
Speaker 2:Just always reach out to me, butts. B-u-t-z. Dot Jonathan at gmailcom.
Speaker 3:JoshBearFilmscom, and that's all from me. Yeah, thank you to Blanket Forts, of course Of course, For the intro and outro music and for just being a great DJ. Blanket Forts.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we will.
Speaker 2:We'll see you all next time.
Speaker 1:See you all next time. Thanks Later. The Wise Mind Happy Hour podcast is for entertainment purposes only, not to be treated as medical advice. If you are struggling with your mental health, please seek medical attention or counseling.