The Wise Mind Happy Hour
Two therapists musing about the idea of an inner wise mind and how to connect with this psychic space in different contexts.
The Wise Mind Happy Hour
👼 The Wise INNER CHILD 👼 (feat. Alex Wallen) 👼
We all have a child within us...even if we're thriving adults. And getting in touch with this INNER CHILD might just be the special sauce to gaining a bit of self-compassion in this dog-eat-dog world. Therapist Alexandra Wallen joins us on this insightful episode, as we unlock doors to healing the wounds of our younger selves...join us.
- music by blanket forts -
Hello everyone, welcome to the Wise Mind Happy Hour podcast. I'm John, as always joined by Kelly.
Speaker 2:Hi Kelly. Yes, Hi, I'm Kelly. Yeah, and welcome to the pod. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 1:You're resident therapist and, as always, we have our producer, Josh, with us.
Speaker 3:What's up? Just sitting here in the chair.
Speaker 1:Josh Baer, as in the aspirin B-A-Y B-A-R-Y-E-R, as in the aspirin B-A-Y B-R-Y-E-R, as in the aspirin I love that, um yeah.
Speaker 2:So how are you, kelly? I'm good. What's new? I'm good, um, I'm loving because, like, yes, I'm good, but I'm in the wedding vortex a bit, where it's like running every like single thought, yeah, into it, we've yeah, I mean, it's less than three weeks love it. It's like go time. Um, yeah, I'm doing okay with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say I think it's like I'm feeling stress, I'm like second guessing a lot of my decisions and a little bit like I had this realization where it's like I'm trying to fix discomfort with buying things and like things outside of myself, which I know isn't the answer so actually, are these things for the actual wedding, or or just you're just buying anything? Yeah, I'm just buying tools Ferrari.
Speaker 1:Car, all these amazing things.
Speaker 2:No, these are things for the wedding. I'm like struggling a bit with my dress, so it's like I'm like thinking of adding things to it or, like you know, augmenting it in certain ways. I like listen to a podcast where I should never have listened to this podcast, oh no.
Speaker 3:The host? Was it the Wise Mind?
Speaker 2:Happy Hour podcast.
Speaker 1:I, like listened to a podcast where I should never have listened to this podcast. But the host was it the wise mind?
Speaker 2:happy hour Was it her forgiveness episode. I was talking about her wedding and it was me. No, um, this woman had just gotten married and had a wonderful wedding. It sounded like in the recap and, you know, did all these different things that I'm not doing? And of course I'm like, well, I'm doomed, you know, because I I don't have a sec, I'm not changing into a second dress. So I literally today started looking at dresses to change into, which is crazy and less than three for the reception.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, like a reception dress which I don't need to do, but of course I what about just changing your shoes or something like that?
Speaker 2:Well, my shoes will be pretty comfortable.
Speaker 1:Yeah, perfect so.
Speaker 2:I think it's like I need to step out of, like if someone else did it and loved it, that means it's right for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and just commit to what you got.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I need to commit to the decisions I've made and work, do internal work and knowing that you've spent a lot of time making these decisions yeah and fall back on.
Speaker 1:They were probably wise for you yeah even though there's doubts, which is totally normal right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that is true.
Speaker 1:I think I really need to which is probably annoying to hear, like, oh, it's normal, but it's my wedding, you know like I'm not trying to unveil, no it helps.
Speaker 2:It helps when people are like, oh well, you know that's normal to feel doubtful or be worried or whatever. Um, I think I mentioned this. I like freaked out about my wedding dress and reached out to the tailor and they were so cool about it like, come in, we'll, we'll take a look. If we need to change the hem, if we need to do this, don't worry. And honestly, my email was like a little terse, so I'm surprised they were that.
Speaker 1:I'm sure they're used to far worse They've probably seen everything when it comes to that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally, and they were really, really cool about it. So I appreciate that and I liked it so much better. When I went today and yeah, I was like worried about the length, that it would be too long and I would be tripping because I tripped when I was in another wedding and the length is like perfect I was like not right, I knew it. The second I had it on, with my shoes on, I was like, oh, this is like perfect. And she was like, yeah, I think it's great and I'm like I like lost my mind and she's like, yeah, that's that is normal, you know to like not know. So, yeah, I'm just like in that place and yeah, and then on top of it, josh and I just have a million tasks.
Speaker 2:Like we were up pretty late last night doing the seating layout, which we haven't finished yet we have to do the rest of it tonight yeah, after the pod after this, um, because it's due tomorrow.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, it's like things are flying at us at like hyper speed, um, but we're handling it I remember at my cousin's wedding, we got our place cards for the table, sarah and I, and we were at different tables and I was like, oh, it's like what, what's happening here?
Speaker 2:I mean, we ended up sitting at the right table, but it's just one of those things where it was just kind of like it was a mistake, oh good those things happen and then people just laugh about it and figure it out.
Speaker 2:You know, so it was kind of like it's like oh sir, you're sitting over there. I'll just sit over here yeah, well, it's like it's so funny because it's like obviously stuff like that doesn't matter if you like, zero in on it but it's like this one day that's supposed to be like this very important day in your life. So really it's like mistakes, feel like no, they shouldn't be there, like this should be like it feels catastrophic when you're thinking about it.
Speaker 2:Like Josh and I once were visiting my friend Leah in New York and she was telling us in the funniest way she's like I got my wedding album because she had had her wedding. She goes there's a mistake. And she said she like let it hang in the air for like a second there and josh and I were both like okay wait, like the pictures after her wedding.
Speaker 1:Yes, she got it and the mistake was in this beautiful book that they made.
Speaker 2:okay, there was like a beautiful picture of her parents and you flip to the next page and it's the exact same picture. Oh, twice, so the way. But the way she said it was literally like someone had messed up her birth certificate.
Speaker 4:Like it was. Like it was like the way she said it. There's a mistake.
Speaker 2:I was like. I was like I think you could just call the company.
Speaker 4:And she's like I did.
Speaker 2:She's like I did. She's like I spent a lot of money on this, so I called them and they fixed it they didn't even like ask for it back. They just sent her a whole new one. It was totally fine. But I was like, yeah, we really there is such an importance in our mind on like this needs to be right yeah and this of all days.
Speaker 2:This needs to be right, which not? It's impossible for it all to be right, right, but it's also impossible for you to be like, totally like yeah, you know, like to conceptually, sure, leave room for mistakes whatever, and then you can't do that. You're like I don't want that to be like that.
Speaker 2:You know it's yeah, it's hard and I mean I will maybe get into this because we're with our topic today, but we'll do a pretty dark place like where I really felt like imposter syndrome, like it doesn't feel like I'm good enough to do this, like everyone else looks so perfect, everyone looks so perfect and they're like instagram pictures and I'm like I just don't think I'm gonna. I just don't think I'm going to look perfect. I don't think it's going to feel perfect and just like man just really struggling with that. But another part of me knows it will be okay, it will be wonderful and it doesn't have to be perfect. But that part was not winning over the weekend.
Speaker 2:I'll say I like really that part was like buried down deep the wise mind.
Speaker 1:For sure. So, anyway, that's what's going on with me, it's hard not to get emotional about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like a lot of that not good enough stuff coming up, because it's like all eyes on you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think it's just, it's hard's hard, like, as you know, I like to be seen, I need to be seen and also like it can be uncomfortable. Yeah, yeah, but I do know it's gonna be wonderful it will be, and I think I need, between now and then, to do some serious like inner work, meditating. I am seeing my therapist. That stuff, I think, is going to help me a lot more than like scrolling for like veils at the last minute.
Speaker 1:It's crazy yeah, I I'm just maybe not wise, maybe maybe wise.
Speaker 2:I should like disable my phone like you could do that.
Speaker 1:Why don't you do that?
Speaker 2:Safari on my phone.
Speaker 1:Or not the whole phone, but why don't you maybe disable? Or just don't be on Instagram for the next two weeks or something. I should delete Instagram, or at least five days until the wedding or something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely Totally the wedding content too. It's like every other thing.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'm sure it's.
Speaker 2:It should be illegal to show people who have already purchased their dresses. It's like I don't want to see these Like. This is torture for me. It should be illegal, yeah.
Speaker 1:That's probably what Elon's working on now. I'm sure that's.
Speaker 2:yeah, I'm sure they'd love if a bride last minute does a Hail Mary change of their dress because they'll probably spend $3 billion changing it, oh yeah. Budget is spend three billion dollars.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, budget is not, yeah, their first priority?
Speaker 2:yeah, yep totally, oh my god, but anyway, overwhelming. That's what's going on with me, what's going on well.
Speaker 1:It's interesting with you talking about that because, as I mentioned, this past weekend it was mother's day. Yeah, but, also my wedding anniversary so happy wedding thank you. So 12 years ago, 12 years, I was in the throes of the emotion, mind getting married.
Speaker 2:Now 12 is obviously not like 10. Is 10 like wood, or what do they call it? Don't they have like silver?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think they have something for every year.
Speaker 2:Should we look up what 12 is?
Speaker 1:Sure Wait, I do remember. I think your first year is paper. Paper Because you don't have any money, yeah, and so I think that's the idea is, like you know something, paper. I have no idea what 12 years is, but anyway. But we celebrated our wedding anniversary and it was lovely to do it alongside of Mother's Day and it was nice to get married, you know, 12 years ago on Mother's Day weekend as well, to celebrate that, and the moms that were present.
Speaker 2:Yeah, did your mom. Did your mom, either of your moms, have any issue with it being on Mother's Day? Not at all. No, that's great.
Speaker 1:Everybody was like great. I mean, it happened on Saturday and then Mother's Day was the next day.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 1:I see was on the Sunday, but it was. No, it was. I thought it was great to have you know to celebrate both, almost like there's a wedding, and then there was also we're celebrating all the moms here, um, you know, and our mothers, and so it was. I thought it was wonderful. Yeah, that's great they didn't tell me otherwise.
Speaker 2:Well, that's, I mean, that's all you need.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, but yeah, if you have an issue with this?
Speaker 2:I just like to not know about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that was kind of my weekend, which was nice to celebrate both of those things.
Speaker 2:Nice, did your boys do anything for Sarah?
Speaker 1:They made cards at school, which was really nice, and then one of Shane's cards. My youngest had something like you get, get 10 000 hugs and you get like it wasn't quite a coupon book but almost like that idea of like, these are the things I'm gonna give you. Um, and wes also made a card, uh, for her, but I printed off some like actual physical photos and we gave it to her, so the boys each had one to give to her, just like things we've done recently.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love that which was great.
Speaker 1:That is great, I'm trying to search up 12 years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd be so curious. I don't even really know what they all mean.
Speaker 1:Traditional and modern. Oh, interesting.
Speaker 2:Modern. You're so modern, You're a legend too. 12?.
Speaker 3:After 12 years.
Speaker 1:Says from a traditional perspective silk or linen. Oh, the modern gift says pearls Wow.
Speaker 3:Long. What oh, did you say long Pearls?
Speaker 1:Long. I think I just said pearls, didn't I? Or no, no, you said a different word. I said modern gift pearls.
Speaker 2:And then you said long.
Speaker 1:Yeah, did it sound like that? I don't know. Maybe Josh is hearing things. So, just for reference, the first anniversary, traditional is paper, but then the modern is clocks, so I don't know what this modern?
Speaker 2:Oh, oh, there's like a modern version. Yeah, it's like the modern, wow, yeah, that's kind of a weird I'm gonna get you so many clocks yeah, totally, yeah on our 12th birthday I think it would be cool to have like a collection of clocks as an art piece, don't you?
Speaker 3:yeah, what if?
Speaker 2:there was like a wall of clocks behind you there um, what if?
Speaker 1:yeah, what if? Like a cuckoo clock, yeah, hopefully they don't go on.
Speaker 2:I hate those my friend's mom had one growing up and at midnight it would go off if I slept over and it was like kind of scary.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I I do respect. I know that my uh grandparents, my paternal grandparents, had a cuckoo clock and now my brother has it, I believe, in his house. Um, I'm a little nostalgic for it and I like the idea of just how intricate it is yeah yeah, like um, did I ever tell time off it in terms of functionality? No, absolutely not. But yeah um but it's cool but it's definitely like a grandparent thing to have.
Speaker 2:It's absolutely a grandparent, my friend whose mom had it like kind of had a grandparent aesthetic yeah.
Speaker 1:So it's like yeah I think my brother and I visited like a village when we were in europe, in germany. That, like that was their main thing, was kind of like making wow, the yeah, like I'm sure they make them in other places, but it was kind of like this is like our thing, like the hub, I think it was called like obagamaro, and they made like this small town. They made like in germany.
Speaker 2:Wow, yeah, cool. It almost sounds like japanese. But then the row in the end with the umlauts yeah, yeah, there you go anyway, so mother's day mother's day, nice, okay, yeah, we, we did a little mother's day stuff, but nothing too crazy.
Speaker 3:Just a little stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, the weekend was mostly spent melting down.
Speaker 3:Melting down.
Speaker 1:The way a weekend should be spent. Meltdowns.
Speaker 2:I love when you have the best intentions. I mean, I have this for any weekend where it's like it's the weekend we're going to enjoy ourselves and then I have a level 57 meltdown. It's like this is not how I wanted to spend my day off of work right being a nightmare, yeah, but here I am doing it.
Speaker 1:My son's school also had their first like outdoor movie night. They have this like turf area that they like project a movie on, so yeah, it is fun, but it was like 50 degrees on friday, and and so I was like sitting there as if it was winter, with like blankets over me in may in may like why do I? I know. And then it ended up being, you know, a great movie. And the weather turned a little bit nicer in the weekend, but like that friday night, I'm just like sitting there shivering, so what?
Speaker 1:was the movie.
Speaker 2:It was the the wild robot which was great, I highly recommend. God.
Speaker 1:I really want to see. We already watched it a second time. We watched it the other night. Maybe we should do a review on it, cause my, my youngest, really liked it, and it's a tearjerker, I'm telling you.
Speaker 2:Oh man.
Speaker 1:It's. So I went to the turf with my boys to watch it. Watch it. Sarah wasn't feeling well and when I got home I was like no expectation for this movie and it was great. It was like really good and immediately she was like I'm gonna cry, yeah, I'm gonna cry, right, like I'm gonna cry.
Speaker 2:I was like oh, yeah, like I was like welling up in it so well, yeah, maybe we'll watch it and do a little lap on it yeah, it'd be cool I'd watch it.
Speaker 3:yeah, I was writing it in my notes to make sure we watch it later and I accidentally wrote the wild robot.
Speaker 1:The robots.
Speaker 3:So I left it, I left it. I'll get a good laugh when I look at that.
Speaker 1:Apparently there's going to be a sequel and it was a book series.
Speaker 2:Oh nice, ok, Cool Books for kids.
Speaker 1:Maybe there's an adult version, I don't know, I believe it's books.
Speaker 3:I believe it's books for children.
Speaker 1:I believe it was a child series, but we don't know what people do, yeah, so I know this much level of stress like a children's book might be just with it.
Speaker 2:That's what the doctor yeah some light fun.
Speaker 1:Um nice, we're excited because we have a guest yes, we have a guest today.
Speaker 2:I've been painfully ignoring her only because that's how we do the intro, but yes, we have a guest today. Our guest is alexandra bayer, or no bayer, formerly wallen, now um, she's an LCSW, meaning a licensed clinical social worker and a therapist. And, yeah, we'll let Alex join the pod and tell us a little bit about herself as a therapist.
Speaker 1:Welcome.
Speaker 4:Thank you. Thanks for having me on the pod. I've been cracking up silently at everything that's been happening and wanting to join the conversation, so thank you for having me on the podcast.
Speaker 2:Yeah, welcome, and we'll get into our topic Largely. We're going to talk a little bit today about inner child work, both like a little bit inner child work in our clinical roles, but also like our own, like contact with our inner child or inner children it may be the case. But yeah, first, alex, tell us a little bit about what you do now as a therapist.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so I am a therapist. I have been practicing at a private practice called Chicago Center for Evidence-Based Treatment, ccbt, for the past three years, and we predominantly work with anxiety, ocd and eating disorders, and so I work with kids starting at like age four or five up until young adulthood, and before that I did school-based counseling at a high school. So in general, I just really like working with teens, kids, young adults, and so that's a lot of where that like inner child work comes in as well and, um, yeah, I love it, I love being a therapist.
Speaker 2:Yeah love a therapist podcast. So I was excited to come on here.
Speaker 1:Totally, you're in good in good company. Yes, all of us therapists.
Speaker 4:Is it all?
Speaker 1:individual work that you're doing.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I do Well sort of. I do mostly individual work and then I do something called family-based treatment for eating disorders, which is it involves usually both parents, sometimes siblings as well. So I'll do family therapy sometimes, and especially with the little kids. I do a lot of work with parents but I don't do any um group therapy, so predominantly individual and and somewhat with families and the parents.
Speaker 1:What? Um? I know I think I asked this to our previous guests as well Like what was your journey to get to being a therapist?
Speaker 4:Like so, yeah, I knew since I was five years old I wanted to be a therapist, like so yeah, I knew since I was five years old, I wanted to be a therapist um, this is yeah. So my mom, who was a guest before on the podcast, she's a therapist yeah, shout out to elisa bear.
Speaker 4:um, so I knew since I was five, because every time my mom would like get a call or be coordinating something with a client, I would like frantically stop whatever game I was playing and like run into a room and press my ear against the door and try to like hear what was what she was talking about. And she's like you need to leave, like this is private.
Speaker 1:You can't be here, wait, but did you know? So, at that early age, did you know what she did?
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And you had a basic understanding. I had a basic understanding. Okay, wow.
Speaker 4:My mom my understanding, probably at age five, was like my mom is talking to people about emotions and like things that are going on.
Speaker 4:Well, maybe I didn't know the word interpersonally, but like in relationships and with emotions, and I'd hear what she was saying and I would just be like so gripped by it and I like really wanted to know what was going on. And so, yeah, my mom would sometimes like take me to work and then she like set everything up like an art project games, put me in a separate room and like it should have been super fun for me. But I was like can you turn off the noise machine?
Speaker 1:and can I sit and listen to the session? She's like no, I can't do that um but you wanted, you wanted to get in there. I wanted to get in there, since I was five, so like cool.
Speaker 4:I did really know, since I was a kid um, that I wanted to be a therapist. And then, like a little bit in college, I was kind of like okay, maybe I should think about other careers, and then I just went right back to therapy. I'm like nope, this is what.
Speaker 4:I want to do and I knew I wanted to work with kids too. I as a kid had seen a lot of therapists and like I didn't really find a connection with like any therapist I had seen. So I also had a lot of ideas of like I didn't really find a connection with like any therapist I had seen. So I also had a lot of ideas like don't want to do it that way or that way right, and so I had a lot of ideas for like how I'd want to work with kids and engage with kids and teens and like build that rapport based on what I honestly didn't like for the therapy that I received. It just felt like really forced. I thought like I remember there was like a dollhouse and it was like here's a mom and a dad, like what do they say to each other? Yeah, and I was like I'll tell you what my parents said in the conversation but I don't want to ask this out like I know what you're trying to do like for
Speaker 1:me, it just wasn't so anyway, trying to get you to project it out there, and you're like I'll just tell you, I was like I'll tell you if you want me to tell you, and then they're like, do it through the dollhouse use the dolls.
Speaker 4:I bought these and it was also like so it was like here's a little girl, here's a mom and a dad, and I was like I, I know what you're doing. So, yeah, I think from a young age I knew that I wanted to, yeah, work with kids and be a therapist, and I was very curious about getting in the room and doing that, and it was always just very interesting to me.
Speaker 1:Do you think it was like interesting and maybe it's both, but like just hearing what people like you had like a thirst for, like hearing what people had to say or what they were were like talking about or were you like really wanting to get in there and like just like help people like I just? I know I want to help people, or maybe it's both. I mean, I think it was nosiness honestly, yeah, I feel like that's 90.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't think I was like at age five like I want to help people, hear these people, I care what I need to help them help them.
Speaker 4:I think I was just genuinely like what are they talking? Yeah, what are they talking about like I just found it really interesting, like I just wanted to get in the room and know what was happening. And then, I think, when I experienced therapy and then knew like, okay, this is what it is and I think it could be something different, or there's like different ways to do it.
Speaker 4:Then I think think it shifted to like I want to be helpful in a way to kids that like I would have wanted at that age. And then it kind of like as I grew up it was like and teens and adults and you know all of that. But no, at first I think it was truly like a little bit of nosiness of just like what is my mom talking? Like she's getting all this information that's so cool, like I want to know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what's going on in people's brains and like what they're experiencing it kind of reminds me like how, how, like when we're young, speaking of being a kid, and like we're gonna talk about being your inner child. But um, like my nieces will do this like they want to play school. And school is like putting on a backpack it's holding paper and a pen and it's obviously not like what you're writing, what you're reading.
Speaker 2:It's like all the like dressing around it, which I think is there's something so sweet about that. That like that, the structure of it kind of comes first yeah, it's like procedural almost yeah yes, because I even think sometimes I have like an attraction to like the therapist archetype of like someone with like a sweater with like a soft voice in a room and there's like dim lighting and it's kind of ambient and like legal pads.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's like something that's almost like romantic or like calming about it, soothing about it, and then like, of course, like we grow's. Almost like romantic or like calming about it, soothing about it, and then like, of course, like we grow to like like the content, but it's. I love that. I think it's so interesting and I even wonder if sometimes there's like an inner child piece to that right Like with adults. You know, this could even be an idea in the future for something I would do in my practice. But like helping people like get back into that you know, like the structure that you thought of certain things, the structure of even your childhood, and like immersing you back in that to help like rewire some things.
Speaker 4:And.
Speaker 2:I love that. I love that you had this like I want. I know I want to get in that room and do that.
Speaker 4:And I just like I think it was a combination of that then, when you were talking about, like what we picture with a therapist my mom, I mean, I think she was like a very calming voice and like when she would talk to people, I'm like I want to know what's happening on the other side of that line, like I did.
Speaker 4:It was also like looking up to my mom and being like I want to be what she is and I want to like embody what she's embodying, and then just being so curious about it and yeah, I mean I was always that way, Like as a kid. If there was like a conflict in the classroom, like I'd want to know what was happening. Like I would want, like if someone was hurt, if someone like but I don't even.
Speaker 1:I just like, but I don't even, I just was curious, like I just wanted to know what was going on. Yeah, what's the deal? It's interesting we're talking about inner child work too, because you had mentioned like you as a therapist. Now kind of being the way, you wanted when you were a child that you weren't receiving right from your therapist. So yeah, a little bit of parallel process there in your profession where it's.
Speaker 1:I wasn't given these things, maybe where I wasn't finding connection in the therapy space as a child and now as an adult. I'm providing that.
Speaker 4:Yeah, or trying.
Speaker 1:Correctively yeah, correctively yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and I think that really, you know it's different. The things that I work with with kids now isn't necessarily the same things that I was talking about as a kid, but I do think that like what I didn't feel in therapy, like it felt very at least in my experiences like very like a rigid style, like here's how we do things and like this is how it goes, and for sure, there's nothing wrong with the dollhouse if that like is how someone connects. But, like I personally with kids, it's just for me and teens just like building a sense of comfort and rapport, which I mean sounds obvious, but I do think it is. There's a lot of different ways I do that. Like some things are more art based with kids, some things are more play based, other kids want to talk more, and so I try to just kind of feel out like how can we set that stage for being comfortable to engage in whatever it is that's on their mind?
Speaker 1:I mean, it may sound obvious, but rapport building is so hard with kids at times in adolescence, I mean young adults, right but, also it's so important because rapport all the research indicates that that's a huge indicator of how successful therapy is going to be. So it's hard to build rapport and kids are so insightful.
Speaker 2:And they're so like perceptive, you know they're like they know, oh, they'll call you out. Yeah.
Speaker 3:That's why I work with adults Same yeah, yeah. That's why I work with adults Same.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, Like with. I remember I like walked in on a Monday or something and I had like a raspy voice and it was cause I was at a concert. But like one of the clients was like you don't sound good, what were you doing last weekend?
Speaker 1:Like there's just no filter. No, no, how are you?
Speaker 4:It's like your voice is weird. Where were you? What were you doing this weekend?
Speaker 2:It's funny, as you were saying that the kids like noticing your raspy voice and saying, like what were you doing? I feel like it's like adults can be so in therapy, like kind of the opposite in a way that sometimes is problematic, where it's like, oh I'm, you know, I'm going to be taking a vacation.
Speaker 3:It's like.
Speaker 2:It's sometimes almost like too much, where you're like, oh, is this gonna be painful or is this gonna be? Or are you even judging me, like for taking time off, or whatever.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I kind of like the no filter. I'm like if they're judging me, I'll know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I will not be wondering yeah, yeah, well, maybe we want to sort of um define, because not everyone probably is even familiar with the term inner child right and we're just, you know, using it and abusing it. So let's um, let's define it. I mean, I could give like my working definition of it, but I'm curious how you might define it sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would like to hear yours first, because you're so good with definitions, then I'll then I'll add I'm thinking of it a little bit in the, like you were saying, parts work, psychodynamic kind of realm, like this idea or this concept that within us is this younger part of us.
Speaker 2:The idea a lot of times of contacting your inner child in therapy is whether you're doing this like explicitly, or it's a more kind of implicit part of the therapeutic process. You're you're contacting kind of a past part of you that's likely wounded in some way, as life is full of struggle and and you know we get collect wounds like in life, um, and some of them are like pretty persistent and show up a lot in our present day adulthood. And yeah, like inner child work is like some form of contacting that wounding and helping resolve it, helping find resolution in that. And there's like a million ways you can do this. There's like dbt ways and act ways and emdr ways and parts work and psychodynamic work and like you name it, um but it also I know that the word came up, I think pre-recording.
Speaker 1:I don't think we were recording yet, but like trauma, certainly we want to view things through a trauma informed lens. But when we do inner child work we're not saying it has to be something traumatic that happened right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, not like like capital t, capital t, that type of thing.
Speaker 1:These could be these wounded parts, things that we maybe were not given as children, from caregivers or systems as well. That's more of a question. I'm not necessarily.
Speaker 2:No, yes, I think you're absolutely right, I'd be curious what you think. But I think, yeah, like even it's like any mdr trauma is a little more broadly defined, as, like any past experience, that when you think of it in the present it brings up distress, like in the present moment distress is happening in the body, when and trauma is, you know, it's like memory with stored affect, which memory is not supposed to store the affect if it's adaptively processed.
Speaker 2:But yeah, like like painful past memories that show up and when they show up now they still hurt, kind of yeah.
Speaker 4:But yeah, I'm curious in your work and your life, yeah, yeah, I mean, I feel like that was such an eloquent definition, which that's why I wanted to hear, just generally, how you define it. Um, and yeah, I think that, like when I think of inner child work going along that lens, it is like those moments and kind of themes and stories that we continue to like notice in ourselves when we get activated of like's coming up for me, what's this bringing back? What's this connect like? What's the pain?
Speaker 4:there and like how am I reenacting this story in other ways or in other relationships?
Speaker 4:Sometimes, yeah, I think of it as sometimes connecting with your younger self, of like can I communicate with my young self in moments, whether it's something that is the big T or the little T, is maybe a bigger trauma or, you know, any sort of experience that shaped you as a kid, and then like thinking that a lot of those early experiences are really pivotal and attachment and how we connect with the world, how we perceive the world and like the patterns we kind of fall into.
Speaker 4:So, um, yeah, when I think of inner child work, I think of it a lot as like connecting with your younger self, Like I will think of myself and like think of little Alex and like what's coming up for for her and sort of like if I was sitting with her in the moment, like her on the couch next to me, like what would I tell her and like what would I want to say and how could I connect with little Alex? And like I'll use that with clients a lot too of like what is that bringing up from your past and how are these stories in your present day connecting with moments from your childhood and if little you was sitting there like what would we say to her? Yeah, and that that can be really powerful.
Speaker 4:I think in like sometimes being more gentle and kind with yourself in the present, turning you into that parent yeah, and like sometimes like if there's self-critical language or mean language that someone's hearing in their brain and using towards themselves, it's like like where is this coming from? Yeah, and can I sort of have a gentler language, like what I talk to my five-year-old self that way?
Speaker 4:you know, so that's sort of how I think of it. It's like if I'm picturing little Alex right there, like what I'd be calling her, those things are saying those things and and so sometimes I think it can help to be kind, like help with some self-compassion and kindness.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, definitely. I was thinking like reparenting work which, like so much of therapy of any kind, is like.
Speaker 2:reparenting in a lot of ways is kind of like the wise mind parenting the inner child right Like instead of the inner child seeking resolution from the outside world or something like you know, from whatever, like a perpetrator right From the past you know, whether that be a major perpetrator or a pretty minor one like finding, like, is there a part within you, a wise mind within you, that can actually soothe you, have compassion for you and even like, contextualize this moment so that it's digestible and tolerable for you, like the wise mind and inner part of you, or the self you know, becomes this stable figure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean well from a DBT perspectivebt perspective, right, a lot of pathology comes from like extreme invalidation or just invalidation in general, and so it makes sense the wise mind, coupled with inner child work, of if we were completely invalid, or not even just completely, but invalidated a lot as children, right, like we need to be able to validate ourselves from a wise place. That's hard to do as an adult, it's not easy, but offering that, yeah, you're emotional, you may not in moments be acting like an adult, you might be acting like that child.
Speaker 1:And at the same time, the wise mind is saying and that makes sense, given maybe systemic you, you know the family you were part of or whatever it was.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I'm like thinking, even, you know, when I think about my own inner child. A lot of times, like that part of me I think feels very like not seen and the need that'll come up is like being seen and then in that, being accepted, I think, and if I'm devolving into like, let's say, an inner child, like tantrum or like my inner child maybe, is kind of like swelling within me.
Speaker 2:It is a lot of times like there's an unmet need here that has origins in the past where it was maybe profoundly unmet and and, yeah, I really need to be seen as I am and be accepted.
Speaker 2:I'm even thinking about this with the wedding stuff like not feeling good enough to be in this role of bride and has like origins and like not feeling good enough to be allowed to take up basically like narcissistic space. You know, like I'm a middle child, like all these different things, but you know, like not feeling like I have the permission to really be center and celebrated, even though I do have needs for that, also feeling conflicted about those needs, and I think that conflict, inner conflict can get really brutal. You know where it's like I'm supposed to be in the centered role, but not too much, you know, and that's like playing out. You know I want to be noticed but maybe sometimes I'm in trouble if I'm noticed or I'm not noticed. It's complex work. I find it in in the therapy work I've done myself like it's complicated to contact that part of me and you know it's like it has all different faces almost. You know and can show up in like all different contexts.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I'd be curious for you to like how that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the two words that come to mind when thinking about like my inner child is like anxious and lost those are like the two words.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That come to mind. I remember being a child and having high anxiety of being lost, not being found, like not knowing my direction, places, other people getting lost, like. And then how would I find them? Like just like very heightened sense of and really just like wanting control of, like where are they going? When are they coming back? How do I know? How do you? I used to ask my dad this all the time, and my grandparents probably lived 20 minutes away from us car drive and I used to ask him all the time. I used to be like dad, how do you remember the streets to take to? Like get?
Speaker 1:them I'm never going to be able to remember I'm going to get lost, and I remember that being very palpable, like as a child. Like this is a far away distance, even though it's not that far, but in my world, being so small, yeah, how am I ever going to be in the world and not be just lost or at sea, or so I think. I think that feeling can come up for me when I'm parenting my own kids and I'm like I don't know what I'm doing, I'm lost, like that. That child in me is is like you're anxious, you're lost, you don't know where you're going, you don't, you know that type of thing. And that's really that's hard for me to kind of sit with that idea that I don't need to always know the direction and try to like reparent, like it's okay, yeah, to not know, even if you did get lost. You've been through a lot of stuff. You can get through it, you're resilient, so like you know some of that reparenting, but yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Those were the two words that I know totally to mind. You know, that makes me think about like that trusting yourself and I think sometimes my inner child does this too, where it it thinks trusting is like certainty and it's really not Right. Or being in control, yeah, or being in control.
Speaker 1:Totally. I have to be in control.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Like all these big moments in life, whether it's like parenting or getting married. Yeah, I think as a kid like I'm thinking back to, to like what I want age five um, between my parents went through a divorce at that age and, um, my dad engaged in a lot of inappropriate behavior that I was exposed to that I wasn't even I knew about it somewhat earlier than my mom, and so I was like holding that and like keeping that within me. And so I think, like whenever there was adult dynamics, like I was kind of looking for answers and like looking for some clarity on like what are the conversations. I remember like my mom is really one of the strongest people I know, but I was like will she be okay when this information comes to light? Like what's going to happen? And so I think it like was when. Like now, I think whenever I'm going through, I say I'm.
Speaker 4:I always say like I have so much anticipatory anxiety as an adult, like with, and I generally when I do something I'm OK. Like I'm about to go through a big move to New York City and I am feeling really overwhelmed by it, and like I was really having a lot of inner child meltdowns leading up to looking for apartments. Then, when I was looking for apartments, I'm like this is fun, it's fine. And I think I do get a lot of like when things are unsettled or like when it's kind of up in the air, like information isn't known yet, which no one like handles. The I mean the unknown is uncomfortable.
Speaker 4:But I do think that, like in my adult world, I noticed my inner child coming up a lot when, like there's a big transition or there's a big change and I'm feeling again a little bit out of control, but like also just yeah, not sure of like what the next steps are. And that was a lot of what it was for me as a kid. I was like always kind of waiting for like when's the ball gonna drop, like when are we, when's this information gonna come out, and like how and what's gonna happen after that. And then like thankfully we did. You know, josh and I had a very strong mom who held together a lot of the semblance in our family, but like I didn't know that at the time, I was just like I know things are complicated, so that what I do actually think also part of what sparked the curiosity of what's behind the door was like I'm so confused with what's happening, so that part of you will come up, sounds like when you're vulnerable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, like a move, a big move. To like. New York is like the biggest urban center.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:The big bad city. I mean, we live in Chicago, but still it's a different beast.
Speaker 4:And yeah, but it's so cool, right, and it also is something I'm like excited about. So it's a funny example, because I'm like I want to do this, I'm very excited about it and like I do think whether it was like when I was going away to undergrad too, which was only 40 minutes away I wasn't going that far, but it was like I've been excited to do that and then, as it was right, right as, and then as it was right, right as it was about to happen, it was like anything that's making me feel vulnerable. I think that inner child comes out and it's like is everything going to be OK? What's going to happen? Is everything about to change? Is my whole world going to be shattered? And like those are the questions that I start to feel coming up and like trying to like just hold together all the pieces. So that's how I think. Yeah, these days it's coming up and like trying to like just hold together all the pieces.
Speaker 2:So that's how I think yeah, these days it's coming up for me yeah, and when I feel like when you're wounding and a lot of our inner child wounding is like this, like if it questions the authority figures that you trust and rely on, if it puts, if it puts them in a compromising position, whatever the wounding is, that is so profoundly destabilizing.
Speaker 2:You know, because really I think about like a lot of times I think about like inner child work and any kind of therapy is like a bit of that completion and not completion like it's actually literally complete, but like a rounding out of a phase is the moving on to the next right?
Speaker 2:So if we imagine some like hypothetical perfect childhood, which no one ever gets there, is this like I see these parental figures in this environment around me. That's really trustworthy. I trust it, I put my trust in it. It slowly puts its trust in me as is developmentally appropriate. It shifts and then I'm ready to really trust myself, not have certainty, nothing like that, but to trust my own mastery capability, stability, all this stuff and a lot of us right, like those parents that like consistently do that like life is just so hard. It's hard to for anyone to be that consistent figure at all. So there's inevitably like wounds and and yeah, they can show up in like a change, like you know is it, is this change just going to be a little messy and like I'll find myself settled, which?
Speaker 2:of course you will, but it's like a part of us that's younger and like not so wise, is like is it going to be okay? Like is the chaos going to be destructive, like annihilating to my life, or will it just be uncomfortable?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think that that just starts to get activated in those vulnerable moments where it's like some big change is happening.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Little Alex is coming up, the inner child's coming up, and then that's when. But again, I think that sometimes, when I'm having a big reaction to something, I'll find my natural instinct is like I'm blowing things out of proportion, I shouldn't be stressed about you know, going to look for apartments in New York and I'm like, no, it's okay, I wouldn't like. This is like sometimes it is. I can be gentle with myself and understanding and I think that like connecting with that inner child, like what comes up in that moment or like what, why is this feeling so intense at this moment?
Speaker 4:yeah or even if I don't have the why, just like it is, so like that's okay and I can like hold space for that and you know I ultimately can, can be there for little alex in those moments when I notice her coming out in a big moment and then that tends to like help me more than the self-judgment if I'm having a reaction that I don't know feels out of proportion with the situation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, I love that, like the idea that, like that distress, you can have some awareness that it's an inner child reaction. But I love the idea that you may not even have to process it, like how validating is that in a reparenting, like DBT process to like know and like say you don't even have to unpack that, you can just feel it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, just feeling that thing and like it's okay, like you don't need to have all of the answers in the moment. And like that's okay, and this moment something's being activated, and that's okay yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like just offering yourself the space to have it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1:Cause we were talking about, you know, invalidation. Maybe we weren't allowed that space as children to have a reaction, or we were told, maybe we're programmed, it's too much. You're too much, not you but like as a child, you're too much Like get over it whatever, and so relearning how to just right you don't even need to do the Y stuff, or yeah. You just kind of allowing more space for that to unfold and to be there? Yeah, totally.
Speaker 2:Sounds nice, totally, totally.
Speaker 1:I think it's great that to unfold and to be there. Yeah, totally Sounds nice, totally.
Speaker 2:Totally. I think it's great. I need to do more of that where it's, because I'll go right to the like I have to figure out the inner child response and sometimes it's like maybe your inner child just needs to feel.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And maybe you'll unpack it later, but just feel it and like be in a bit of pain.
Speaker 1:It's hard to think about it too when parenting my kids. How often I will go to the trying to do something and not just let the space be there. It's just such a hard reflexive action because I don't like seeing my kids distressed what parent does, probably and and so it's such a knee jerk reaction to want to help or fix it or make some sort of intervention or you know, and that takes real discipline for me to to try to just allow it to be there because there's going to be time to make the intervention. Why not just let it breathe a little bit more?
Speaker 2:that's hard for me. Oh, it's hard. Yeah, it's hard for myself to do it for myself too.
Speaker 1:But I'm just thinking also of the you know the trickle-down effect to like my parenting with my kids and yeah you know, when they're in distress, maybe just let it breathe. Yeah, let them be in distress. Not the trickle-down effect to my parenting with my kids. When they're in distress, maybe just let them breathe. Let them be in distress Not that I'm invalidating it, but just sit with them in it and tolerate my own distress with it.
Speaker 2:You know what that makes me think it's like so much of EMDR work is helping people contact past memories and do a bit of real engagement with them once again. Because, like there's other inner child work right DBT, cbt, act would be more like looking at then what are kind of the private events that are showing up now and like bringing in the same intentions and needs to the present. But like in EMDR, you are going back and engaging with the past and there's so much emotion that comes up and you're really not supposed to do a lot as the therapist.
Speaker 2:And it's so hard to sit there while someone is really crying and you're really not supposed to say anything. At the most you kind of say like you're doing a great job. It's past stuff, just hang with it as their brain takes them through it. But it's, it's like wow, I really and it and I know it helps them to say nothing, like I know the times I've stepped in. I'm like you've just fucked it up you know, like they were in it, they were healing themselves like it just goes against every fiber, oh yeah that's so unnatural but but you but?
Speaker 2:I've even been an emdr client and noticed when my therapist steps in more I don't like it because I'm like I am doing this, I can feel it healing. I don't actually need the help, I'm helping myself. But it's like, as a therapist, you're just like watching someone in that much pain. You're just like, wow, it's hard, it's hard. And a kid who's a vulnerable and oh, I really I'm in trouble with that and your own kid. I can't even imagine.
Speaker 1:I can't even imagine I mean any kid, but you're, you know.
Speaker 4:Like hearing your child scream and cry like, oh my God, yeah like it goes against your natural, probably like parent instincts where you're, like I'm, conditioned to want to comfort my kid and make all discomfort go away. And it's just impossible to do that all the time or even to just do something. Right.
Speaker 1:Like the, the, the urge is so strong to just do anything Right. Right, and they're not always good things either. Right Cause I have urges to yell at my kids and I do yell at my kids too, so even in those moments, it's not just about, like you know, the knee jerk reaction is to do something like useful. It's also like holding the times when it's like, oh man, I'm about to lose it here or lose my patience. So it's like all the things yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, totally.
Speaker 1:It's really hard. Yeah yeah, totally, it's really hard. Yeah, is the reparenting when you're doing this work something that you are people resistant to do? They feel like because sometimes with self-compassion type of work there's there's some resistance to this, feels inauthentic, it feels um like cheesy, cheesy yeah I didn't really want to say that yeah, it's so judgmental but people do say it and people do judge.
Speaker 1:So is the when, when you're doing this work in the reparenting, is there a lot like, do you find there's a lot of resistance to it, and maybe you frame it in a way that yeah, no, I mean, I think that they're definitely.
Speaker 4:I think like, when it comes to we're so programmed to do anything one way, way, like it's really uncomfortable to engage in in a different way. And I do also think that, yes, there's oftentimes resistance of, or just like a lot of different things, whether it's like it feels cheesy or that doesn't work for me or that's not going to work, and I think that in general, it's different for like everybody that I work with. But I think in general, like I try to just be patient with that and be like can we dip our toes into like this element of it? And like I and I, and I'm also like if it doesn't work, then like we know. But a lot of times I do think it's like before even engaging in a piece of it, it might feel like it's not going to, but there hasn't been the effort made yet. So it's more of just like a curiosity. I'm also not like super fixed on any language that I'm using, so like I think different language works with different people.
Speaker 4:Like I refer to my younger self as like little Alex or young Alex or whatever, but it's like different or like self-compassion, like I'm not so caught up in, like what we're calling it at the end of the day, like if something feels like cheesy or inauthentic to somebody, I wouldn't say like oh, it shouldn't. Or like let's change that thing, like I more maybe explore, like what that is or what's coming up, or does other language not?
Speaker 1:feel that way it works for you yeah, yeah, you give me the language, right, you give me the language and a lot of times it is just like what do we associate those things with?
Speaker 4:and so just kind of exploring that. But for sure, I feel like most of the time there's some level of hesitation or push back with it, which is fine like. I feel like most of the time there's some level of hesitation or push back with it, which is fine, like I feel, like that makes sense yeah, it's funny, like I've definitely had people say the like, this, yeah like some sort of but
Speaker 2:sometimes I will say like yeah, it's fucking cheesy and like does that matter? Right like let's see if it helps. You see if it helps cheese and all, yeah, you know, and then for other people I really would help them find more language. Probably depends on the type of resistance that's there. But yeah, I think the cheesiest things can be the most healing. But I love a cheesy intervention for myself. Oh, I love it so much.
Speaker 4:My mom also. This is I'm going to try to explain this in a way that could be understood without like. Usually she does this like ax it out, and I know this is a podcast, so I'll try to explain what she does. But she taught me this and I have replicated this a little bit with clients sometimes and they're like hesitant about something like she'll be like when our brain is lopsided and she'll kind of like show herself like tilting her head all to one side and her body like all leaning to the right. It's like yeah, you know, like just leaning fully one way. It's like this is how I'm hearing your brain right now and it's like all the way to this side and like sometimes you have to do something cheesy or uncomfortable or weird all the way to the other side so that you're ultimately like sitting up straight.
Speaker 4:But so she'll sometimes like show that with motions of like when the brain is one-sided, you might need to, for a period of time, practice something that feels the most uncomfortable yeah, like so extreme, yeah, cheesy, in order to just meet yourself in the middle right like if your brain's offering you naturally a lot of criticism and stuff like yeah sometimes we have to like cheese it up in order to then to just level out yeah and like acknowledging like yeah, it is cheese, like sure, yeah, okay yeah that's fine and like the one-sided, self-critical part of your brain sounds pretty exhausting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like cheesy or exhausting right, you pick, yeah, yeah, you know what's so amazing about that. I'm just realizing too there's almost an implicit inner child work in what your mom's doing, because to kind of use metaphor and body like that and display it like that you're, you're accessing a person's younger self that like needs, metaphor, needs that to even like create, like conceptual, like attaching themselves to a concept.
Speaker 2:A lot of times metaphor helps gather information and there is a reparenting there, because it's kind of I don't want to say dumbing something down, but very like elegantly displaying something that, like, a child could get. And there's something so compassionate to do even with an adult, like as a therapist, like yeah you know, and I've seen your mom like hold her up.
Speaker 3:Trade is like this and the other side of it's like this and like yeah, like using using like almost like props.
Speaker 4:I don't use enough props like I've tried to use more. I I use the silliest props, like I come up with things on the spot and I'm like pulling out pens and like notepads and I'm like, what am I doing? Like so useful yeah, it is, it is funny. But like the props I use are so rare, I'll be like pulling out like a pink highlighter and I'm like this is one friend and then like a blue marker and I'm like, and here's another friend and like here's your boyfriend this blue marker it's so helpful, though, and experientials are so helpful in the therapy
Speaker 2:space and metaphors, all of that yeah, and I think there is like an accessing going. I do believe that there's an implicit accessing of like an inner child inviting the whole of you along, not just like a highly conceptual explanation of something I love that I also for sure.
Speaker 4:Like when I'm starting to do a metaphor, I'm like another metaphor, like here's a warning, and they're kind of like laughing, you know it ends it up a little bit, but it is just like I love a good metaphor and I love a good prop.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know they're great. They're so great. I once maybe we did this, even when we worked together in group. But the therapist who said like emotion is like. When you feel an emotion, it's like a can of soda being, or a bottle of soda being shaken if you just keep tightening the lid it'll explode. But it's like if, when you shake it, you let a little bit of air out then it will settle.
Speaker 2:So it's like the like expression of emotion, like regularly and often like settles that I forget where that comes from well, I think a lot of people in the therapy space want to make things more complicated yeah I think that is.
Speaker 1:The things are complicated. It's not to say that things aren't yeah I think the when people my experience has been when people are doing self-work in the group space there's almost sometimes like some frustration and anger, when it's like, oh, I need to like, take more care of my sleeping and those types of things and I'll actually feel more regulated. There's almost like it's got to be more complicated than that.
Speaker 2:I have to be more complicated than that and maybe it's like a protective thing of an ego thing.
Speaker 1:It's like there's some concrete things you could really be doing to help yourself yeah and we can do the higher order stuff as well but. I think those simple things. They're not simple in the sense of like we're not dumbing it down or anything, or but those are very useful to get out of that. Some of this isn't as complicated like yeah, it's also accessible, it's so accessible. Like you're a can of soda.
Speaker 4:You are a can of soda.
Speaker 3:Some people need to hear that, like we need to hear that.
Speaker 1:Totally, because we think, well, it's got to be this, or distress tolerance, or you know like thought diffusion.
Speaker 2:And it's like okay, well, right now you're, or even like number scales, you're at a tent like just giving people like more concrete things. Yeah, yeah, useful. And I I think I've said this before like even in my own therapy like often it's like one thing will be said in a session and I'm like well, that changed my life, like that one thing. And yeah, it's like it can be. And usually it is something so simple.
Speaker 4:Do you ever have that happen? We're like. Then someone will be like oh, can I write it down, can you say it again? And you're like what did I just say? I can't even remember, I don't even know what. I just said.
Speaker 1:Remind me what I just said.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I'm like I don't know. I'm sure it was brilliant.
Speaker 3:I'm sure it was Even.
Speaker 1:That shows some things. Maybe we don't register as that therapeutic or important really do have impact Because maybe we weren't like thinking in that moment.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That was the most therapeutic, or we were kind of getting to a different point.
Speaker 4:Right.
Speaker 1:And the person's like wait, what did you just say there?
Speaker 4:Exactly.
Speaker 1:It really struck a nerve.
Speaker 4:Yeah, sometimes they'll be like, oh I just made an amazing point in my brain and like nothing will resonate.
Speaker 3:And then another time I said something they're like.
Speaker 2:Let me write that down I'm like that was great, I guess get some sleep.
Speaker 1:Write that down I'm gonna write that down. Eat breakfast.
Speaker 2:Yeah, write it down, yeah yeah, yeah, this is the conversation is making me think that really, like, all the work is inner child work to some extent yeah, I mean, I feel that way yeah for sure, totally, totally and like sticky kind of persistent distress often is pinned in the past and there are a lot of ways to access that part of you and care for it really like.
Speaker 2:Listen to that part of you, let it feel like, be with it, give it space to exist as it is, accept it because, like in my inner child, there's so much like embarrassment and like humiliation. I think I felt like embarrassed a lot as a kid and not able to really like handle that. So my reparenting that part of me is a lot of like be as ridiculous as like ugly, as offensive, like as you can be, and like really accept that part of you.
Speaker 4:That really helps me a lot yeah, I love that you're like, yeah, it's okay if I it's okay to do something and feel embarrassment, like that's an emotion that can show up here and it's yeah, and it's okay yeah and I don't need to hide from it and I don't need to be accepted by every circle right you know, like that's often.
Speaker 2:What embarrassment. Like I'm not, I don't belong and it's okay to not belong wait, can I ask a question?
Speaker 3:absolutely, do you. Do you ever get people who are like, because we're talking about the cheese factor?
Speaker 3:so much, yeah, cheese of it cheesy cheese but do you ever get people and maybe there's the cheese element of this as well but where it's like I just like don't deserve this or I don't deserve to kind of like talk to my inner or access my inner child in this's like I just don't deserve this or I don't deserve to kind of talk to my inner or access my inner child in this way. I really just need to grow the fuck up and be an adult.
Speaker 4:I'd say that's your inner child. I know who said that to you, Josh.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, who, actually, what a good point.
Speaker 4:Shh. Sorry, we're not on the thing right now, are we?
Speaker 2:I guess I we're not on the thing right now, are we?
Speaker 3:I guess I am talking and no, it's okay, we'll leave that in. Just sit back in that chair there, close your eyes and tell us whatever comes to mind.
Speaker 2:I'm just kidding, um, but that's a really great point, I think. I mean, if we're holding this argument, or at least theoretically, like everything comes from that, you know, that voice might be like at least a part of your inner child, right Like I just need to not be a kid.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but what if it's right?
Speaker 2:but in therapy really the right and the wrong, you really would and this is cliche therapy kind of dismantle a little bit.
Speaker 4:Right.
Speaker 2:You know.
Speaker 4:It's like is it working for you? Like I guess like at that, and it's like, okay, sure, Like is that right for some people? Okay, Like, how is that serving you to think that way?
Speaker 3:I think it often doesn't serve me, and I come back to that over and over and over again. But could there be someone where they indulge their inner child too much?
Speaker 2:Oh, good question. I don't think so. But here, here's why I think if they're truly doing it in a wise-minded way, if they're doing it like thoughtfully I think no, but I think there's times where people probably think they're I don't know what you guys think like indulging their inner child, and it's still some kind of defense or some kind of dysfunction.
Speaker 1:I guess I would need. What does indulge mean, you tell me? Well, I would need more information.
Speaker 2:Are you thinking of like a super childish adult?
Speaker 3:Like I'm going to eat a bunch of chocolate Because. Or like I'm going to smoke a bunch of weed.
Speaker 1:Because, because, the inner child is oh, yeah, yeah. Because there's a part of you that needs something, needs fulfillment needs, and that's how you indulge it. Are you asking? Yeah, Well, in this example, whatever this person is doing, I guess I needed to know what indulge meant. Like there's indulgent behavior. I don't know if that's always indulging your inner child. I guess I need to understand the connection between the indulgence and the child.
Speaker 3:I guess I'm making that connection, but maybe I shouldn't be.
Speaker 2:Well, maybe does the behavior feel like.
Speaker 3:Maybe the behavior feels like regressive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure.
Speaker 4:Being connecting with your inner child, I think is a different thing than being your inner child, if that makes sense. Like I think there's a difference between, like I am now going to have, or being childlike, or being childlike, like like you're not like putting on your backpack and going to preschool. I don't think like I'm not like start acting five years old immediately. It's more like what's coming up.
Speaker 3:Also, like what part of you wants that chocolate, like it's okay, like it might be like my very adult part, right it's also like what part of you isn't letting yourself enjoy that thing at other times, like why, is it that you're? You know what I mean there's so much nuance to it like.
Speaker 4:I don't think that, like allowing space for emotions that came up in your inner child self mean equals.
Speaker 4:I am going to become a child again like I think there's a distinction there for sure, and I also think that, like some of the fears of it might even be bringing up, some of the stuff of like was I did I feel guilty for acting young, or like did I feel guilty for being a kid at certain times, and like needing to quote unquote, grow up when, like really it was okay to be a kid yeah, but I also think it doesn't.
Speaker 1:I mean, I'm pretty sure, even just with self-compassion, where dr kristen neff says that's one of the reasons why people find it so difficult, is they feel like it's they're gonna be indulging themselves yeah if they're compassionate to themselves.
Speaker 1:One of the barriers is that they're going to become you're gonna allow yourself to get away with anything, yeah, and so compassion, or you know, offering yourself, reparenting or things like that isn't anti accountability. You're not holding, you're not like not holding yourself accountable. Uh, I think that's a real fear, though I think people think they're going to go to an indulgent place if they start to treat themselves in a different way, or a kinder way or a nicer way, or they reparent themselves.
Speaker 2:I'm even thinking of like something that if I notice someone do this, I'll think that it's childish. I'll make that judgment in my head or sometimes out loud. If, like, an adult is like, you know, you're like, oh, sometimes this comes up around like death or whatever, like if you. I remember I had a friend her brother died tragically, very sad, um, and I was going to go to the funeral and a friend who worked with the three of us I said do you want to go with me? Or to the wake, maybe it was and she's like oh, I, I don't really like things like that. And I was like like I thought it was such a, but I think it's like is that person indulging their inner child too much?
Speaker 2:I would probably say no, I think, because indulging your inner child, there would be more like tuning into it, like what's coming up, and maybe it isn't inner child part, but maybe it is. You know where it's like if you went to this thing. It is. You know where it's like if you went to this thing. What would happen? What's maybe being protected? What are you needing? That going wouldn't give you, you know, exploring that a little bit. Or it's like let's eat a bunch of candy and stay up all night or something. You know it's more like indulging your inner child, is like talking to that part of you with no judgment, with openness. You know what would be gained there and what's the kind of core need underneath, you know, is it comfort, is it like camaraderie, is there like fear of sleep in the dark or something, and you want to like numb. It Is there, you know whatever and like looking at kind of what's underneath.
Speaker 4:But yeah, like it is probably different than our everyday judgment of something as like childish but it's a good question, it is a good question, but it also makes me think like when I'm interacting with a kid, if I'm nice to them, I'm not like now they're gonna be like a spoiled brat.
Speaker 4:You know like it's like if you're nice to a kid, if I'm nice to them, I'm not like now they're gonna be like a spoiled brat. You know like it's like if you're nice to a kid or like giving them kindness or compassion, then it's not like all of a sudden they're gonna, you know, never deal with anything again and not be able to handle anything because we were like nice to the kid and so I don't necessarily think like I. I think that by connecting with the inner child it's not necessarily like I get what you're saying by indulging, but I think of it more as just showing up for, as Kelly was saying, like the emotions that are coming up for that kid and being there and understanding it. And yeah, I would say, like a lot of times, avoidance of like I'm not gonna go do that thing or I'm gonna mask my feelings with some of the things you were saying, like substances or if anything. I think a lot of times that's like fear of connecting with some of the inner child stuff.
Speaker 1:Like.
Speaker 4:I think it's almost like putting a mask on as opposed to like and connecting with your inner child doesn't mean like now, like I think I'm the best person ever or like that kid's the best person ever. It's just like being there and in a moment for yourself so that you can get some clarity, comfort and like, yeah, compassion for yourself in that moment, so that you're able to like, move forward and ultimately make like value based, like it connects back to, I feel like that, like what are your values at the end of the day? And if it's not I don't know the example you gave before then it wouldn't necessarily lead to that overindulging sure unless that, like was your value yeah in which case interesting person.
Speaker 3:My life is about staying up all night and eating candy. That's my personality.
Speaker 2:I love it. I love that. That's a good question.
Speaker 3:Thank you, it's a good answer.
Speaker 2:I've definitely had clients be worried about that. If I do that, then I'll just be childish. I won't do well at my job right lack of accountability.
Speaker 4:Yeah and I do think it's fair to like, say sometimes, like what is being mean to myself, offered me, or like what has being like having really high standards for myself, offer me. Like I will have that conversation too, like around you know perfectionism. Like it offers something like this thing that you've been doing, while I think sounds very exhausting, like, is comfortable in a way, like because you're used to it and it is. There is sorry, there's a knocking, that's the dog next door.
Speaker 3:Oh okay, dog is agreeing with me. He's like yeah, clapping, thank you, dog.
Speaker 4:But yeah, I do think that, like sometimes it is uncomfortable to detach from that because you're like well, maybe in some ways it is working for me in other ways it isn't, and that's true.
Speaker 2:Okay, we probably didn't fully answer your question, but we never did, it wasn't?
Speaker 4:meant to be fully answered it was just meant to provoke we don't always need to tie things up in a bow.
Speaker 1:No, you can tie it up in a ribbon yeah, we very rarely tie it up, yeah, but we do always figure it out yeah, and we're always my first supervisor as a therapist, um, or I guess he was technically my second.
Speaker 2:He would always say like you know, the therapy session doesn't wrap up like a sitcom necessarily.
Speaker 1:He would always say that I love that doesn't wrap up like a sitcom um. I loved my first supervisor yeah, mine was great too.
Speaker 2:He was hard on me, but uh, I loved her. She was great. Yeah, it's nice to have a good one. Yeah, I mean all good supervisors.
Speaker 4:Isn't that kind of wild? That is wild like I've and they've all been really different, but like they've all been really helpful that's great not to brag when I was doing my internship.
Speaker 1:My supervisor, she was so great she would not tell me the days that she was going to be out of the office, so that I had to lead the group because it was a like a process group for two hours in the morning. So she wouldn't tell me her day is off two hours always yeah, it was like process all iop, wow.
Speaker 1:So you really learned very quickly how to sit in silence and be a therapist and elicit discussion and things like that. But I was always like every time I walked through the door there was always like a tinge of anxiety. I was like is lynn gonna?
Speaker 2:be here? Is she gonna be here?
Speaker 4:where is she?
Speaker 1:because she just wouldn't tell me and then it would be like you're on your own. Yeah, wow, but I really appreciated it. You know, in hindsight maybe not in that moment yeah totally, totally, yeah, and then she would always be like I didn't tell you like lynn come on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she'd be like oh, everybody else knew I was like yeah this is your job.
Speaker 1:Of course you had to tell them yeah right, just lowly intern.
Speaker 2:Yeah, wow, anyway.
Speaker 1:Well, there's almost some mercy there that she didn't let you like panic all night the night before I know in hindsight I was like I'm actually kind of glad and it kept me I feel like prepared every day I went in that it was like this might be yeah you know, like almost not an anxiety where it was like crippling, but just yeah, I gotta be on my game every day. I show up here. I gotta be on my game because you don't know wow I know shout out to lynn lynn
Speaker 1:lynn, lynn show the mind lcsw wherever you are wow mine, was rick.
Speaker 2:I can't remember his last name, but shout out to rick.
Speaker 1:Shout out to angosie harris she was also the one um which, kelly. I remember you loving this a lot, but she was the Rick. I can't remember his last name, but shout out to Rick, shout out to Ngozi Harris. She was also the one which, kelly. I remember you loving this a lot, but she was the one who said when I would get really frustrated when patients like wouldn't talk like individuals, because I would do group in the morning and then individuals from internship in the afternoon.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like they wouldn't talk. Or in group they wouldn't talk and we would be processing it. And she would always you know, we would process it. But then she would say well, john, remember, people vote with their feet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 3:It's great.
Speaker 1:They're coming here, even if they're not talking they're. They're voting for themselves, they're coming for something and I, up, there's something within them.
Speaker 3:Even if they don't know, they're voting with their feet for themselves and I was always like I love that it's a good nugget it's great.
Speaker 1:That is a good nugget, yeah so today we're going to be discussing how wise is it to combine finances? Yes, we have a couple who's getting married. Yeah, alex, you've been married for. Almost two years, almost two years, yeah, and I just celebrated a 12-year anniversary. So where do we want to start? Curious, how wise is it? What do we?
Speaker 2:think Well, since Josh and I are exploring this, we have not done it yet but, we're making a plan to gradually begin doing this. I'd be curious what you two think, as already married folks.
Speaker 1:I feel like it's been a wise decision. Sarah and I have combined finances, and we did when we got married, yeah, and I feel like it's been pretty smooth sailing Wow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so can I ask a logistical question?
Speaker 1:Please ask me.
Speaker 2:Like, your paycheck and her paycheck go into the same account 100%.
Speaker 3:They just dump into the same account. They dump Cool.
Speaker 2:Because, sometimes I wonder Because I own my own business, so I have a business account.
Speaker 1:That's something we don't encounter.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because neither of us have our own business, because I have a personal checking and a business checking. Yeah.
Speaker 1:No, we have one checking account. Yeah, we have one savings account and then we have all of our investments and then the only thing that's separate is our iras from our works, right, so those are just separate accounts. That's okay. You know you take a percentage every whatever yeah, and you got those secret accounts offshore.
Speaker 2:Of course, cayman islands shout out caymans, no um, of course, cayman Islands. Shout out Caymans.
Speaker 4:No.
Speaker 1:No, we do, though each have, I think we still, if I remember correctly, for a while we, if I remember correctly, we agreed to each keep one credit card. That was a separate account. So I believe I still have one credit card. I never use it but I believe early in our marriage it was if you want to buy a gift for someone and you didn't want, like if they checked the, you know, if they checked your account or the credit card that we had combined that account you might see a purchase Right, um, if you wanted to surprise somebody. So I think we did keep I think Sarah still has her to like a separate account. That is just a personal account Secret.
Speaker 1:But yeah, yeah I don't even know where that card is. I don't even know if I still have that card.
Speaker 2:Okay, Cool Okay.
Speaker 1:I love hearing that. But I think it's been wise for us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. What do you think not having them combined would? How do you think that might be like detrimental?
Speaker 1:I don't know if it would be detrimental. I feel like it would just be a lot to keep track of. Yeah, like what's. I like the big picture of like what's coming in. I know all of what's coming in together in one pool versus. I have to keep a ledger, different passwords for this account to this account.
Speaker 2:How much I don't know, To me it just makes more sense in my brain to have it all be in one. And do you guys have different spending habits or are they pretty similar?
Speaker 1:I think they're pretty similar.
Speaker 4:That's nice. Mine aren't similar with Andrew's. We're definitely not in that category yeah.
Speaker 3:I think they're pretty similar. Yeah Well, that's nice. Mine aren't similar with andrew. We're definitely not in that category. Yeah, I think they're pretty similar.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, that's great.
Speaker 1:I feel like we've maybe I will, but you gotta remember it's been 12 years there's two kids there's there's been a lot of like runway of of your finances change because we you got our first condo and a mortgage, and so that was a discussion about your finance, like there's been a lot of ongoing discussions because the finances and the calculus has changed for so many different things. Yeah, but I feel like we're in a good rhythm with it and knowing each other's habits, but, whether we explicitly set it or not, like knowing kind of what the limits are of like spending, I think Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because that's been 12 years of doing that, you know, yeah. So I'm sure we've had times where we've been like, oh, what was this charge? Or what you know what happened there, or oh, we got to watch out Like our account's getting pretty low. What happened that month? You know we've had all of that Totally Okay, so I think it's been wise for us. Yeah, the business thing didn't even think of.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like your own business account and things like that. I mean, I don't know how you keep that.
Speaker 2:How do?
Speaker 1:you not keep that separate?
Speaker 2:Well, I think you have to keep the business account separate. However, I think some people, how they like, feel and I talked to you about this what you end up doing is you, as a business owner, pay yourself a salary. And actually that allows you to sign up for an S corp. I don't know if you guys have heard about this.
Speaker 3:It's a tax thing where?
Speaker 2:a lot of people encourage you to do an S corp because you can like save a bit on your taxes. I have an LLC, I don't have an S Corp LLC. You get like kind of taxed like out the wazoo. S Corp is a little bit less, but you have to pay yourself a salary. You have to almost like treat yourself like you're an employee of your business. So there's the profits of your business and then it's like a percentage of that you put into your and then it's like you could take that money and have it like go into the joint account and then it's like whatever's left in your business account are like business expenses, like pens or fucking whatever. Um, so we've talked about that, but we're what we're doing is like going more gradual, which we'll get into.
Speaker 4:But I'm curious you out, yeah um, I think it's been really stressful to not combine finances.
Speaker 4:Um, so I'm very excited to make the wise decision for us to combine finances for the exact reason that you were just saying, john, of like I think it's a lot to keep track of and a lot of like logistics to kind of organize, but we were. It was an interesting situation because both of us, pretty much since living together, one of us has been in school at a different time. So it was like I was in social work school. We had one year of overlapping where we both made money, weren't married yet, and then he went to business school and that's where he is right now and so I don't know, we've been keeping things separate, but like coordinating all the time and like having conversations about it and it's just, it's fine, but it's like to me it doesn't feel like it would work forever, like it'll definitely be really nice to just not need to have as many of those conversations, because we both have the same clear view of like what we're looking at and like what's coming into the account.
Speaker 4:I do think it'll be an adjustment and I've already like very much primed andrew in this is that like he doesn't spend that much money at all, like he doesn't other than, honestly, andrew and josh are very similar in their spending habits is that the two things that they, or the what they each spend money on is live like concerts, yeah, and so like that's expensive. But other than that, like I don't know like I get my nails done. I have skin products, I have um hair product, like I just feel like I have a, a gym membership for like pure bar, you know, like all these things, and he like goes for a run outside. He'll like figure out random bits of food for lunch that's around the house and like never orders out. Like when he was going to work in his corporate job when he first moved, it was like a turkey or peanut butter and jelly sandwich every single day. So like I mean maybe he'll change with some of that now, but like I definitely enjoy my sweet green lunches sometimes totally.
Speaker 4:So I do think, there is just gonna have to be some of the like reworking of that um, but like we've talked about it, so yeah, but all the big expense, I mean the big expensive expenses. Habits are the same, as you're saying, like we're going to be paying the same rent. We're going to be yeah living in the same place, eventually paying for kids thing. You know all of that will be the same, but I do think it is going to be a little bit of an adjustment. But I think he knows that yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, or now he does.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I think we're. We're similar to you, like I think our spending habits are pretty different.
Speaker 3:Hmm.
Speaker 2:Spending problems. I think I just I just spend way more than you and I do. I am honestly a part of me, a big part of me, is really looking forward to having someone else's eyes on, like everything I spend.
Speaker 3:Same Kelly, really. Yeah, I don't really want, I don't, I'm not going to police you.
Speaker 2:But it's not that, josh, it's even the idea of it.
Speaker 4:You're like he's going to see every time I get this sweet gram.
Speaker 1:You're going to think I'm looking, but I won't be saying that just knowing eyes are on it. Might, you might be more thoughtful yes, I, I hope for that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think like I sometimes like spend to feel better to feel who doesn't whole and like safe and we all do that yeah, so I think we what we've talked about is like the on-ramp being a joint credit card first, where, like all the things we buy together, we put on that.
Speaker 4:That's what my mom and Jeff do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 4:But that's also an interesting thing when second marriage is second marriage for context for for anyone listening who doesn't know my mom and Jeff my mom uh, got remarried more recently recently, but I think part of it that was Jeff to Jeff, to mysterious.
Speaker 4:Jeff, our stepdad shout out to Jeff, jeff freed everybody. But yeah, so he. They, I think, do that. Where it's like combined expenses, there's a card and they each have their own yeah, cards, and a lot of people that works for two. So I don't, I think like different things are it's like combined expenses. There's a card and they each have their own cards, and then a lot of people that works for two. So I think, like different things are wise for different people yeah, obviously.
Speaker 1:And I think there might be an urge for some people to lean too heavily into this idea of like the 50-50 of it all.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's got to be equal spending, because I really don't think it has to be. I think it can be what be equal spending? I cause I really don't think it has to be. I think it can be what makes people happy, and sometimes your partner likes to see you happy spending money and you know, like there's, I don't think there's anything wrong with if something makes your partner happy and that includes spending money on something that they really enjoy and that's really like do it.
Speaker 2:I don't know, from my perspective you know, I mean, if it's not wrecking your finances yeah, like do it, yeah, and that's the pivotal you know is it?
Speaker 1:not wrecking your finances yeah, for sure, but I guess my main point in that, the first point, was like being so rigid about it's got to be equal, right, it's never gonna be. It's never gonna be equal. Yeah, they're gonna be times where you spend more, your partner spends more, or maybe some people just spend more. That's just part of you know yeah and there's so much that goes into that. But that doesn't mean it has to be like yeah, so like counterbalanced with right. Yeah, yeah, I'm curious what you think josh I think it's very wise.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I can't wait oh yeah, me too but do you think you're gonna see all my sweet, sweet editing money coming in and start just spending even?
Speaker 2:more, we'll be broke within days. Yeah well, it is funny because we've talked about like we.
Speaker 2:we have differences in income, obviously, but they're not that great. I mean, yours varies more, but I think you it's funny because it's like a lot of people will judge, even in life, right based on someone's like income, right, their salary, but it's like someone's spending almost you can spend your way out of any income. You know it's like was more important are the habits. I think I say that as a person with bad habits, so it's like it's like what's more important are the habits.
Speaker 2:I think I say that as a person with bad habits. So, it's like, I'm like I think you are so naturally good at saving. You are good at that and being wise Frugality, frugality, I think it's a really important quality.
Speaker 4:It's not always wise, Josh Not always. I like that Kelly sometimes makes you take the uber. Oh yeah, just for sure, that's an example.
Speaker 2:I have like a knife to his throat. I'm like, if you're 2, am leaving empty bottle yeah, a late night to walk, to walk. Two hour walk home a humble park central chicago to the l like are you? Would you do that late night? No, okay, thank you. Yeah, I haven't seen two in the morning in a long time, but for me, even if it's like midnight, yeah for sure you would take the L, you wouldn't.
Speaker 1:I would take an Uber.
Speaker 2:Take an Uber. What about the bus?
Speaker 1:I would take an Uber.
Speaker 2:Uber Bus is a little better because you're near the driver, but still.
Speaker 4:Sorry to put you on blast, josh, but I do think that that's an example of a good, wise spending, of safety, of getting from point A to point B.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's not evena saving thing necessarily. I like to listen to my own music.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can ask for a quiet ride.
Speaker 3:In the Uber Pop in your headphones. Oh, wow, yeah, I feel so rude.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like it kind of is rude, but it's fine. I think sometimes they prefer it.
Speaker 3:Really, I'll just stare out the window in silence.
Speaker 2:Yeah, ponder.
Speaker 3:Ponder.
Speaker 2:Do people talk to you a lot?
Speaker 3:Sometimes. Yeah, I don't hate that, I just like music so much.
Speaker 4:I heard this was a thing, but I've actually never seen it. I heard there's a way to request a quiet ride.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh there is, you can click it and then they'll write you a one Quiet ride.
Speaker 4:No, but I think they also request it.
Speaker 3:I think it's like a mutual, oh, okay.
Speaker 2:Like someone's, like I want that, wants quiet, Interesting. Yeah well, I think it will be interesting, like when finances are actually combined.
Speaker 3:On gut level, I feel relief Because I feel like we do already communicate so much about money and it feels a little bit like this black hole sometimes, whereas like if we're both just like in it together in the account, I think for both of us uncertainty plays into our anxieties in different ways and maybe seeing it all in there will give us both peace of mind.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think it'll be helpful.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:For all of us. We're doing it at the same-ish time.
Speaker 3:All four of us are combining our-. All four of us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all four of us are having an account together.
Speaker 3:Yeah, in the Caymans For the pod, am I right? That's what this podcast is really about. That's what this was all about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was really to just it's a scheme to get Alex to combine.
Speaker 2:Sponsored by Halliburton and you can all donate money at Halliburton.
Speaker 1:But I think it feels like a black hole and then you'll just develop your natural rhythm with it. Yeah you'll just develop your natural rhythm with it. Yeah, because, like sarah knows that I check our account every, every single day.
Speaker 1:I check it to see and she doesn't check it at all because she knows that like but that's something that just became like rhythm, like I want to look at my credit card, like I log in and I just look at it and that's just that's what works for me and she'll ask. Sometimes she'll be like you know, oh, or that, but she's not like invested in it. It was just kind of the way that it's worked out. It's like our routine. Yeah, totally Just like one thing of the combined finances.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, actually speaking of that, um, I gave Alex's mother-in-law, elisa Wallen shout out to Elisa a ride home and we ended up talking about couples and finances because Josh and I were buying a car together and I had mentioned to her like the idea that we were thinking about doing the credit card and she in such a nice way, shared kind of their setup and she was telling me a funny story about her mom, telling her her mom, who you know, obviously you know as a character.
Speaker 4:I mean, she's the best. She's so funny, she has some epic emails that she writes to Andrew and I and she's definitely a character yeah.
Speaker 2:She told Elisa, your mother-in-law, she needs to have a kitty. She called it.
Speaker 3:And she was like what's a kitty and she was like your own little secret.
Speaker 4:A little pot, a little kitty pot yeah.
Speaker 2:You can just buy whatever you want. Yeah, and it was funny because elisa's response was like if I want to buy something, I just buy it. Mom, like you know, there is no right. Like she's like I'm more in the finances than her husband who like, because she's like he doesn't like to to look at that stuff. So she's like it doesn't bother me, so I do it. But yeah, we were talking about the idea of keeping things separate, keeping things together.
Speaker 4:She was probably a proponent of together. Yeah, and the reason I say that is because I've heard her already, even with Andrew. Well, andrew's told me, if he said something like when Alex combines her money with my money, she was like no, that's one thing, that's your money, it's not Alex's money, and my money, it's a.
Speaker 2:It's our family's money. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:So I would assume that I didn't hear the conversation. But I assume she's a proponent of the combined yeah Finances and I do think it's true. Like beyond finances, like things in the relationship, aren't always 100 equal in terms of just like things around the house right, yeah right
Speaker 3:kelly's an amazing chef josh does pretty much everything else then I stay up all night and eat candy and I keep you up jumping on.
Speaker 1:The kelly makes candy all day and I consume all of it each night.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which is the balance you want but you know what's funny, this will be the last thing I'll say about it, but, um, I think too. It made me think. That conversation made me think about, like, the generation of women that your, like grandmother-in-law, um, comes from right, where it's almost like that betty draper age, where it's like here's two hundred dollars for like here's your allowance yeah, in cash, like from your husband I often was like you know, heterosexual couple, wife at home, whatever's doing that, and it's like man.
Speaker 2:I would fucking hate that Like someone's like. Here's your little like your little kid feeling like a child, like right Oof, yeah, I would imagine, elisa wouldn't like that because, yeah, she's, she's just like I'll do what I'm going to do.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's definitely a little bit, hopefully, generational.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally, totally.
Speaker 1:But it's interesting, but you get it like that was the time and and yeah, people figured it out, but yeah, so ultimately, it's wise for the four of us to combine our accounts.
Speaker 3:Yeah, oh yeah is that what we landed on? Yeah, so I'll need all your routing numbers.
Speaker 1:Need your socials, we'll figure that out as soon as the recording's done and we'll have one bank account.
Speaker 4:That'd be great yeah yeah, well, this was great. Yes, thank you for having me on the podcast. Also. Fun fact first podcast that I well, that's sort of true I listen to like news podcasts.
Speaker 2:First non-news podcast that I ever listened to is this podcast, and I love, love it. We're so honored.
Speaker 1:We are very honored. Thank you so much for being here, but also thank you for listening.
Speaker 4:Always Wise Mind. Happy Hour every week everybody.
Speaker 2:Anything you want to plug Personal plugs, anything I want to plug. Yeah, your website.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, I you have a website. Do you have a? Oh yeah, I should have a website. That's a good point.
Speaker 1:I'm like what could my plug be? Or where people can find you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so I. My email is alexbayer, which is my maiden name. Bayer, like the aspirin at friend. At C, c, e, b, t A lot of letters that sound the samecom, and my practice is Chicago center for evidence-based treatment and I am on that website. So if anyone wants to connect with me, that's how to do it.
Speaker 2:Nice, okay, cool. So yeah, send your emails there. Um'll, I'll plug my website. Yeah, kk psychotherapycom. Um, yeah, if you want to work with me, ask me questions. You can reach me at the contact page on that website. And what about you, john?
Speaker 1:yes, people can always find me and email me their questions, comments, whatever at butts butzjonathan at gmailcom. Josh.
Speaker 3:And I'm going to plug the May Simone's album.
Speaker 4:You can't even get it.
Speaker 2:What was that English?
Speaker 3:Sorry, because I always plug my. We just always all plug our website. So I was like I'm going to, but I couldn't.
Speaker 1:What just happened? What's happening?
Speaker 3:I couldn't get through the joke.
Speaker 2:My favorite thing is how fast you write.
Speaker 3:I've been thinking about it for like three minutes I can tell you couldn't think.
Speaker 1:What I heard was Maze on Maze.
Speaker 3:Maze Simona is a really great album. I actually can't think of what it's called right now, but I think her name is spelled M-E -I space S-E-M-O-N-E-S. It's really good kind of indie jazz, pop.
Speaker 4:That's a great plug.
Speaker 3:Just like a Japanese Brooklynite Loving it.
Speaker 2:Loving it. Great plug, we'll all listen.
Speaker 3:Keep listening to it. Keep listening to it, we'll all listen.
Speaker 2:I just love how you wrote that.
Speaker 4:It just immediately went into. I don't even know what.
Speaker 3:Part of it is. I don't really know how to pronounce her name, but you'll be able to find it based on my description. And if you want me to edit your next film. It's joshbearfilmscom.
Speaker 1:Bear like the aspirin.
Speaker 2:Thank you, john.
Speaker 4:He edited our wedding video.
Speaker 2:Yes, beautiful video. Well, thanks everybody.
Speaker 1:It was a beautiful wedding.
Speaker 2:Thanks everyone, Thank you.
Speaker 1:We solved it, we did it.
Speaker 2:We solved it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we did it once again.
Speaker 2:Take care, everybody Take care.
Speaker 1:See you next time Bye, Thanks guys.
Speaker 3:Thank you, blanket Forts for the Wise.
Speaker 2:Mind Happy Hour podcast is for entertainment purposes only, not to be treated as medical advice. If you are struggling with your mental health, please seek medical attention or counseling.