The Wise Mind Happy Hour
Two therapists musing about the idea of an inner wise mind and how to connect with this psychic space in different contexts.
The Wise Mind Happy Hour
Finding Wisdom in THOUGHT DEFUSION
Have you ever wanted to experience host Jon Butz consuming a chocolate sardine on LIVE AIR? Have you ever dreamt of "fusing" less with your negative thoughts & emotions? If your answer to both is "yes," then this episode is clearly for you.
- music by blanket forts -
welcome everyone to the wise mind happy hour podcast welcome yeah, welcome, john yeah thank you.
Speaker 3:I need to stop saying welcome to you I'm glad to be here this is exciting this is gonna be the last recording before your wedding.
Speaker 1:Yes, I know, I think that's so exciting.
Speaker 2:To me it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I feel like I'm slap happy because of the wedding and just like all the little.
Speaker 2:I feel like it's wearing off on me. I think I'm a little slap happy as well which I like.
Speaker 1:I feel like intoxicated. Do you feel that, josh Sure? Yeah, do you feel that, josh sure? Yeah, like we just like between like the tasks and also like, obviously, emotions are high. My emotions are high, so like different like activating moments, like when I come down from them I'm like a little sleepy and kind of like and, yeah, I'm definitely feeling that today, but also also so excited. And just to wrap it up, on my dress. I did pick up my dress. I loved it. I thought it was so great.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:I need to like. I said to the woman I was like I think I'm like really it's great. She's like it's great, like just stop, kind of, and I'm like, yeah, I lost my mind.
Speaker 2:I'm so happy for you that that was the outcome of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I think it's going to be good. Tell us what's new with you.
Speaker 2:Well, this week I am actually flying out to the East Coast to be with Sarah's family. Her grandfather is turning 100.
Speaker 1:Whoa yeah Centenarian.
Speaker 2:I know Having a party.
Speaker 1:Yep Mel, yep Mel, wow Mel. Oh, my God, shout out to Mel.
Speaker 2:Shout out Sharp as a tack.
Speaker 1:Sharp as a tack.
Speaker 2:Will he be like out on the dance floor kind of thing. So I don't know if there'll be dancing, but he will be up and about. Wow, yeah, amazing, amazing guy. So we're flying out there. There's going to be a party for him. I think. There's like quite a few people that are going to show up family and friends.
Speaker 1:So I know so I'm really excited about it.
Speaker 2:He's got a lot of friends even still, yeah so where he lives, um, in the community that he lives in, which is, you know, there's assistance there and things like that, and, um, yeah, very social, has a girlfriend.
Speaker 1:Uh, yeah, she's coming has a girl, I know I get to meet him.
Speaker 2:That's pretty crazy.
Speaker 1:I mean meet her why doesn't he just stop dating?
Speaker 2:yeah, so it's like it's gonna be a really, really fun trip. So we're going out there with the boys, so we're gonna see sarah's family out there, um, and we're also gonna see her sister and her kids, um, but yeah, 100 I was thinking about that when I was driving over. I was like man, 100 years old living a hundred years yeah, great years so he would have been born what?
Speaker 3:is that 1925?
Speaker 1:1925,. Yeah, there it is 19. We're math, we know math.
Speaker 2:We know it.
Speaker 1:I'm like yeah, on fumes, wow, 1925.
Speaker 2:So Like can you imagine living to be 100?
Speaker 1:I cannot imagine that. I mean I would be looking around, probably thinking everybody else is a fool, like what do you mean?
Speaker 2:like I've seen everything oh yeah, good point, I've made every mistake I've you know he's so down to earth. Yeah, that would be probably an easy um perspective to take. If you're 100, not the perspective he wow so open and so open, so current, with like current events. He's that's how you do it with the stock market like just yeah and such a like positive you know, vibe to him wow, that's great.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's probably why he's alive. Yeah, really great um. And he's healthy.
Speaker 2:He is yeah, for the most part. I mean, you know, obviously, when the this girlfriend in her 90s, she's in her 90s. I don't know exactly how old she is.
Speaker 1:Wouldn't it be funny if she was like 40? This will be the first time.
Speaker 2:This is the first time I'm meeting her, so yeah.
Speaker 1:Wow. Well shout out to him. That's such an inspiration to live that long and I would really, in a more serious sense, like hope to be, yeah, if I lived that long, to really stay curious and, yeah, like interested in the world. I always say that about your grandmother, I noticed that, like she's such a curious person and always like interested in new things and listening to you, know what people have to say about their lives she's taking classes so great, she's what.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:I don't know anyone's age she's probably close to 90.
Speaker 3:Is she?
Speaker 4:89?
Speaker 1:You know better than me kelly, she is my grandma 88 she's in school. She's in school, yeah goes to school.
Speaker 4:Wow, she watches movies.
Speaker 2:I think they watched fight club, wow and she was like that was intense I think that's also part of it is is staying just mentally engaged, because I think the story that sarah told me was that her grandfather, mel, who's turning 100, I think he at one point audited every single class you could at the community college.
Speaker 2:Wow, like in his in his like retirement, like there wasn't any class he could take anymore, like, I think, just staying, you know, interested, that openness, wanting to learn, not thinking even though you have maybe all these years of experience that you know everything Right Just that willingness to still. Be, like humble.
Speaker 1:Yeah, humble in that way. So cool.
Speaker 2:So that was the yeah, that was the story. I remember Sarah saying he audited like every class at the community college.
Speaker 1:Wow, amazing.
Speaker 2:Which is crazy.
Speaker 1:Amazing.
Speaker 2:And it's cool to have great-grandparents for the boys you know, yeah, and for a little while. Sometimes the boys every once in a while would be like what is great-grandpa Mel? Was he alive when that historical thing happened? And it's like he definitely was. You could ask him about it. You know, wow was you could ask him about it, you know. So for a while we were telling our kids like, save those questions.
Speaker 1:Like you know, next time we see him go ask yeah, that is so cool, god. Yeah, like like to think like, were cars really happening then or in the 20s? Was like the model t?
Speaker 2:um, that might have been well. Yeah, I mean definitely early in the in the game, in the car game for sure cool you mean like the model tesla right yeah, exactly right the
Speaker 1:model t josh and I do. We tell you we saw like a graveyard of a bunch of um cyber trusts oh yeah, those things.
Speaker 4:You've seen a graveyard, but those things are not selling right now.
Speaker 2:I think people are like people are uh well yes, they've in the depreciation on them has from what people bought them originally to what they're trying to sell them for, is ridiculous now they're crazy yeah the first time I heard of one was like justin bieber's assistant like crashed one into the beverly hills hotel or something and I was like, did you?
Speaker 3:do it on purpose, to see if he could withstand it or he didn't know, because there were people that were putting videos out when those first came out of, like I'm going to drive it through this much water and show that it's indestructible, and yeah, yeah yeah, maybe that, maybe it was actually like a, I bet you it was.
Speaker 2:This was pre katie perry in space yeah which is an important thing which is an important thing, stem katie parents, um, but yeah, so we'll be in philly to wrap that up and I think we're gonna do some historical stuff out there, which is always fun like the franklin institute we did that last summer, we might go to the Constitution Center this time.
Speaker 2:Or there's also like, of course, my kids perked up when they heard the word war because there's a revolutionary war and they're like, we're going there and it was like, well, we could go to the Constitution Center. That would be. You know, they're like whoa, yeah, I know, so we might do that.
Speaker 1:And we'll see back on monday.
Speaker 2:Okay, nice, east coast, east coast, that that sounds great, and then we'll come back and then it'll be a short week for us till your wedding yeah, oh my god, I'm so excited to have you guys there when I was leaving the house today to come here, my boys were like wait, are you going to the wedding now, you know? And I was like, yeah, like this, like, and I'm leaving your mom, I'm not bringing her, she'll just watch you guys. It was just funny that they were both like wait, you're going now.
Speaker 2:Cause we've been talking about you two and the wedding so much that it's like I think they hear your names and then they immediately just think wedding, wedding, yeah, so you're going now.
Speaker 1:So cute, my nieces are like that. My mom was saying she was talking to my niece because my sister-in-law went to a bachelorette last weekend and my mom said to Zersha she's like where's your mom? And she's like I don't know. And my mom's like isn's getting married and she goes. Aunt Kelly, I was like they're so trained. This is the only wedding that exists.
Speaker 2:It's the only event? Aunt Kelly's getting married.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's who's getting married. So funny. Yeah, it is for our circle, the event of our lives and then it's over, then we can go back to school honestly. What's nice about it being over, though, is just the planning being over totally yeah like the wedding itself will be wonderful, and then it's like you're done with the plan right, the love won't be over, yeah, but the love of the planning will be yeah, yeah, like we're gonna this weekend, we're just basically gonna shelter in place and like finish finish, finish the last details.
Speaker 1:I have to finish my vows. The rabbi reached out and was like so you actually have to send me your vows if you want me to free them. And I'm like oh God, I know, I told him I was going to send, like me first. That's all right, way overdue.
Speaker 2:But I'm also like am.
Speaker 1:I going to have them for freedom? Maybe not. You're Catholic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, You're like I'm just. Why are you?
Speaker 3:emailing me, I'm Catholic.
Speaker 2:Right, and I'm trying to be thoughtful, I'll get off my back.
Speaker 1:Totally.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to write these.
Speaker 1:Totally yeah. So we have to do that little stuff and that's all right Like rework some things with the ceremony that were not to the dock easy, like that easy breezy. But yeah, you guys are on easy street. We're on easy street. We're getting to the place where it's like there's not much more to be done but to just go and do it crazy I did like just to share something kind of funny.
Speaker 1:I was asked by the makeup team. They're like kelly had expressed interest in doing touch-ups on the day and I was like, oh yeah, because I remember my friend had this being like throughout the day throughout the wedding day you get your makeup done like in the morning and then the makeup artist like follows you around and touches it up before the ceremony because your ceremony is like way later that's what you're getting the makeup for really and I and I was like yeah, I'm interested and I'm like wait I better go look at that contract to see what the price tag on that is.
Speaker 1:It's two hundred dollars an hour, including downtime yeah so I'm like I would need her until about 4 pm. That'd be an extra 650 dollars. I'm like I can get, I can powder my own nose yeah like I was like it's like blotting a little powder, putting your lipstick on.
Speaker 2:Yeah $650 for that. Well, yeah, you're paying for their time, though Totally.
Speaker 1:Oh, I think they're so justified in charging that, but I'm like am I really doing that? No, it's like that service is for someone who's burning money.
Speaker 2:Makes you reevaluate your rates. As a therapist probably, I mean yeah, really yeah. You're like, have me around all day, I'll charge you $600. Yeah, I'll be your therapist all day.
Speaker 1:Didn't I tell you that Johnny Depp's therapist made $100,000 a month?
Speaker 2:Being his therapist.
Speaker 1:He was just on retainer. I think his only client was Johnny Depp and he was was like on retainer, was it like?
Speaker 2:a skills coaching idea where you could call, like johnny depp could call his therapist whenever all hours of the day if he needed him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and this, and johnny depp was the only client. I mean, maybe this guy had other clients, but I imagine that they might be required to like let go of other clients wow, and it was a, I'm sorry, a hundred thousand a month, so that would be a little over a million a year. Wow, yeah, you know, what's funny is I. I bet you, I've never heard of that I bet you even that like the person somehow got that gig I bet you if you and I like sat down with them, they wouldn't be like all that impressive.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. Like what are they doing in their witchcraft?
Speaker 2:yeah you know, it's like that does remind me, though, of a niche um, an article that I read about a niche kind of um life coach, therapist, wellness practitioner who was a uh I'm gonna be like butch right now, but they're like an um, almost like a uh interventionist for the stars so specifically for well, he needs that substance use. So if somebody is like um whole, shooting a film in europe and on a bender and is no longer sober, you call this person up.
Speaker 2:They immediately, like jet, set out there, we'll sit with them, take them to detox like be yeah and yeah pretty much, and it was skilled yes, and and it was this article about how this practitioner himself had dealt with substance issues but also had developed this and like he doesn't necessarily advertise but is completely known among like celebrities, as like this is the person you call if that or somebody in your circle or a famous person, and how discreet he is about it and and the secrecy of it and things like that, and how much and just like how much money this person makes. I don't remember the figure, but that would be cool.
Speaker 2:It would be cool to be the person where it's like you gotta call it but yeah, some of the, some of the stories were that this person was like with these celebrities in like, a like, literally in a hotel as they're coming off of a substance for like for like 10 days, you know, and like not letting them leave and yeah, that type of thing, right, intense, tough yeah you've got to be really pretty tough to do that work the more like in acute variety of substance.
Speaker 1:Work right, you really do yeah I, yeah, I remember kristin, our old co-worker, shadow krist like worked a lot in substance before working with us and she was talking about. She's like it can be just so disturbing to see people like really, really intoxicated like that all the time.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Wow, do you think that therapist is still Johnny Depp's therapist?
Speaker 1:that's a great question. Probably not, I bet you.
Speaker 2:I bet you those celebrities like go through like therapists and providers and, like their healing witches and doctors and whatever, like I bet you, they cycle through them it's not our topic today, but I think a topic that we gotta talk about is um us getting fired by our clients oh, definitely right oh my god, we should talk I was thinking about that as a future episode is yeah, getting fired oh, I'm like cringing okay, we don't have to go there just yet.
Speaker 1:No, no in a good way, cringing like I.
Speaker 2:Definitely it's a rich topic when you said like they just probably go through therapists, that was like yeah well, because that's the thing.
Speaker 1:I know we'll get into it another episode, but that's a thing like I have a little bit of a reaction to people like therapist shopping and like a lot of therapists out there encourage people to do it and I'm like, oh, I don't know, I think you got to be really careful. Like you, to an extent, of course, you do that, but to another extent it's like every time a client will tell me they're like interviewing a couple therapists, I'm like oh yeah, I'd be curious.
Speaker 2:We'll save it for another episode, but I just want to see your facial reaction when people refer to it as like dating yeah finding a therapist is like dating therapist like see how it is right.
Speaker 2:It's like you're not gonna have any idea how it is for like a long time right yeah, it's so interesting and it's interesting that you would, because is the messaging there that you want. You want like a spark well, exactly like that. That's the thing that kind of cracks me up about. It is when people are like, oh, it's like dating, you just got to find the right one, and it's like you're looking for, like a spark right and it's like you can learn about their style from like their website their psychology today page or from just like a brief 10 minute phone call.
Speaker 1:They can say, like I'm more behavioral, I'm more psychodynamic, or whatever. And yeah, whatever, yeah, it's so interesting.
Speaker 2:It's just an interesting way to conceptualize it. Yeah, yeah you don't want maybe your therapist to be boring.
Speaker 1:It's like dating.
Speaker 2:I always think it's a funny thing when people say that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like dating. It's like is it, is it like? Dating oh wait, speaking of thatosh, and I watched a hilarious tiktok where the guy was like, hey, what did he?
Speaker 2:say he's like oh, I wish that I could have like a surgery, so I could like relax for like five months.
Speaker 1:And the other person was like you can just do that, you can just take time off, she's like wait, meaning like the recovery is the relaxation part of it, yeah okay, you have an excuse she's like I want you to talk.
Speaker 1:The other host was like I want you to talk to your therapist about um, this is brooke and connor make a podcast if you've ever listened to it. But she's like I want you to talk to your therapist about that, about you not being able to take time off. And he's like my therapist won't return my emails and she's like that's so sad. He's like yeah, I was supposed to get coffee with her. She's like what? She's like that's not normal. He's like it's not normal for me to ask her to coffee. She's like that's. She's like do you ask your doctor to coffee?
Speaker 1:he was like no yeah I'm like, oh my god, people are out here and that wasn't a bit.
Speaker 2:That was like. It didn't seem like that's like a for real.
Speaker 1:He was just like that's my doctor to go off. He's just like, yeah, that's weird yeah like that's why she's not replying to your emails. Yeah, oh boy, see, I would reply to that email and I would say, like this is not the nature of our relationship, it's not appropriate and again, that might come from an honest place and that person they might not know, but certainly it's on the therapist to hold the boundary there. Yeah, To be like okay, let's just write the ship here. That in no way is our relationship.
Speaker 2:Let's get coffee. Yeah, let's get coffee. Let's see if there's a spark.
Speaker 4:I'm sure there are other therapists who get coffee with their clients.
Speaker 2:Let's see if there's a spark yeah. Let oh man, that you can use, but it's certainly a skill that comes probably more from the acceptance and commitment therapy paradigm.
Speaker 2:And when we're thinking about thoughts of fusion, there's like these six parts of being more flexible psychologically, and so there's this like hexagonal model with an act and at each point there's these different skills that you can use to be more open and engaged and more mindful in your life and not to bore people too much. But one of the six points is this idea of thought diffusion. So, I think people are much more from my experience, much more exposed to the idea of thought challenging. Would, you agree from like a cognitive behavioral therapy perspective?
Speaker 1:yeah, I feel like that's been around longer. Well, it's funny to say that because then if you think about how mindfulness is thought diffusion, it's like that's been around for so long, but like cbt being such a big thing in right 60s or whatever 70s, yeah, 80s, um, and like that like david.
Speaker 2:What is it like? David burns, like feeling good books and like the cognitive distortions. And so thought challenging is all about. If you can notice a thought, whether it's negative or a distorted thought, then you challenge it with another thought. You kind of like give it or almost like a reality check, or yeah, or check the facts or and that's how you kind of get out of it, right?
Speaker 1:you like rework the content of a thought right with factual information, differing perspectives and the idea being there that, like, our mood is determined by our thoughts. That's the premise anyway Our mood is determined by our thoughts. Change the thoughts who change the mood. Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so if I just counteract my thoughts with other thoughts, that's going to influence my mood which then? Might influence my behaviors, because if my mood changes or shifts, then my behaviors might shift. So thought diffusion is interesting because it's different in the sense that we are allowing space from our thoughts and that's the main goal of thought diffusion is to literally diffuse and get space. We're not trying to alter our thoughts in any way. We are trying to change our relationship, exactly our thoughts.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which is kind of radical right, it is. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because I think people that I work with typically are like you're saying. I don't have to do anything with the thought.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't have to challenge it and really thought diffusion is probably one of the most ubiquitous or classic thought diffusions is the idea of you have a thought, you notice it and then you say I noticed that I'm having the thought I'm a failure or I'm having the thought that I'm worthless, and so the sheer acknowledgement that you are having the thought is allowing yourself to have space for that yeah, it's like there's a you and there's a thought. Right.
Speaker 1:And it's not as blended Right. They're kind of unhooking from the thought. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think what's difficult for people to understand is that, because I think maybe people always want to do something and they feel like that's not active enough.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so I think it really is, and we already talked about distress tolerance in a previous episode. I think it really is, and we already talked about distress tolerance in a previous episode. I think it does require a level of sitting with really uncomfortable thoughts and not feeling the need to have to like do anything with them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I think a lot of people think like if I sit with my thoughts, they'll consume me, and what ACT kind of demands actually being called act is. Let's test that theory. And there's even, you know, exercises where it's like you can write your thoughts down and carry them with you, and like an act exercise called carry cards, and and if you bring them with you and you pick up your laundry or you, you know whatever, go to work, you go about your day and the thoughts up your laundry, or you, you know whatever, go to work, you go about your day and the thoughts in your backpack, can you actually have the thought in your experience, in your awareness, and be your fullest self, be your whole self? Do the things that matter to you, do the thoughts control you or do you think they do Right? Yeah, yeah, I think it's a pretty powerful thing.
Speaker 2:I think it is too, and I think if you can give people the space to say, well, if you just acknowledge your thoughts and say I'm having the thought, let's say that I'm a failure.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that is just a thought, it's just a mental event, then, right, you can get on with your life in terms of okay, I'm having it, it's uncomfortable and I can engage in a different behavior. Or, if you just acknowledge it as a thought, you can have other thoughts.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's a thought, and here are some other thoughts. Yeah, right, so the diffusion does allow the space to then challenge. If that's your, something you want to do, you don't have to though.
Speaker 1:Totally's true. It's like there is room for both it's so I mean the thought challenging of it all is so interesting because it was so popular yeah, and so well established yeah but then I think later, more like wider research on a lot of different populations, found that there's kind of a pretty strict, strict clinical population that really benefits from that.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of people where, or a lot of types of thoughts where, like, the subconscious mind is kind of clever and and impervious to like, oh, you're not a failure, look at. To like, oh, you're not a failure, look at all these reasons, you're not a failure, and it's like okay, and then you go forward still feeling like a failure. It's something more embedded, more kind of weaved in and and just challenging.
Speaker 1:The content is not getting at the dysfunction and even like the energy, of it. You sort of need something, and I think what thought diffusion does so nicely is it like honors it, it doesn't like hammer away at something there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that is very empowering to not feel the pressure to have to do something with it yeah To not feel the pressure to have to do something with it. Yeah, and also, I think, thought challenging to me sometimes there's an underlying message with thought challenging that like if you do it, then the thought will just go away. Yeah, and that's our goal is to get these thoughts to go away.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's not explicitly said, but I think with thoughts of fusion it's like well, you can try all day to get your thoughts to go away with other thoughts. Yeah.
Speaker 3:That's not explicitly said, but I think with thoughts of fusion.
Speaker 2:it's like, well, you can try all day to get your thoughts to go away with other thoughts, and sometimes that actually makes the thoughts more intense that you're trying to get away. So I feel like it's more empowering where you let go of that rope and you just kind of say, okay, I'm going to have this really intense thought over and over again If I stop pushing against it and just learn how to sit with it and take away some of its power. That is really, I think, fertile ground for just again altering the way that we engage with our thought processes.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And one of the things when working with people about thoughts of fusion is when we're fused with our thoughts. There are a few things that I like to cover. We treat all of our thoughts that they're wise yeah when we're really fused with them, like every thought we have. We think like oh, that's a wise thought yeah right.
Speaker 2:We think that our, our thoughts are orders yeah like they're telling us what to do and we have to obey them. Um, we also think that they're the truth about reality, right? So, like when we're fused with our thoughts, we're not able to get that distance to even see that you know what. These might be wise thoughts, but they might not be they might not be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it gives you that space to actually consider just consider an alternative yeah, yeah, it's like, yeah, when you're fused, it's like or what do they say in act that you're seeing the world through the?
Speaker 2:thought yeah, you're seeing it through.
Speaker 1:Versus. You want to look at the thought? And you as a self consider it.
Speaker 2:Right, and that's something that people will, and I think it's a valid question. People will say, well then are none of my thoughts important and I need to diffuse from all of them. And it's it's not going that far. It's saying, if we can practice getting distance from our thoughts, we can pick and choose the ones we want to interact with more and we can change that relationship.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and kind of let go of and there's so many metaphors for thought diffusion with an act, because act just loves it yeah, one of them that I really like is that idea of the um the conveyor belt, the sushi conveyor belt yeah right, like when you're at the restaurant. You're observing all these pieces of sushi going by you, and then you choose which ones work for you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, oh, that one works for me. Yeah, I'm gonna eat that.
Speaker 2:Right one feels the other ones you just kind of leave, and when they move past you don't really think about them anymore yeah right. So it's kind of the idea to give people more of a concrete example of like. Can we do that with our thoughts a little bit?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Can we notice them going by and really engage with the ones that are wise or more useful for us? Yeah, that's not always going to be 100%, but yeah, but.
Speaker 2:I think sometimes that imagery can help people think about it Totally. I you can help people think about it Totally. I had. I was thinking that I probably attributed this to the wrong person, but I remember somebody saying I thought it was a CEU you and I were both at together once. But I remember somebody asking why don't you thought challenge with your clients? And I remember the response being a little tongue in cheek.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:He said why would I give them more words? They're already struggling with words.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that and I was like oh, that's, I like that take. Yeah, and you know, that's actually probably how I these days in my work use thought diffusion is like inviting into the body. So it's like, okay, let's notice that thought, or sometimes I'll even say, notice the image. Right, If they're talking about it more in like a memory or in a situation that they encountered, just notice it, look at it like hold it in mind what's coming up internally yeah what do you notice?
Speaker 2:what do you notice?
Speaker 1:now, like, when you hold that thought or have that thought, what else is there? What are the feelings like? That's more the present moment, material, that you can ride the wave of, you can be self-compassionate toward, you can like, explore potentially, for where else have you felt that you know it's like if I do this, no one's going to like me. It's like okay. So, having this thought that no one likes you, just notice that thought for a second. What do you feel? What comes up? What else is there?
Speaker 2:How do we sit with that? That's the thing. Yeah, we always come back to that right, like, how can we slow this process down just a little bit? Yeah, slowing it down, slow it down.
Speaker 1:Spaciousness.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That principle, that idea of like getting space, getting to that observing self, whether you're observing a feeling, you're observing a thought. How do you create the space? Cause? That is that flexibility, right? No, you're not going to. You're not going to. You know, ignore every thought or separate from every thought and and buy and buy into no part of it. You're giving yourself the capacity to not buy in.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:And then you get to choose. You get that agency, you get that wise-minded driver's seat yes position.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I think it's also influential with behaviors, because I think that people do really think their thoughts are orders and that they have to follow through with them yeah, so also creating the space for if you can slow it down, you have options. Yeah, you may not like them.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It may be hard to tap into other options, and you don't always have to just go with what that thought is telling you to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So even again back to that slowing the process down.
Speaker 1:Definitely Trying to think, like where I most use this in my life, like defusing from thoughts. Do you use this one?
Speaker 2:I try to. I think it.
Speaker 2:It's most useful for me when I get like passionate about something, and when I say passionate, usually that's like in the form of like frustration or irritation and I want to like send an email, or I want to, um, like go find somebody to like if it's in the workspace and like tell them, oh, you know that type of thing versus like okay, I'm having the thought that, like, this is going to be like what I should do right now. Yeah, could I, and and maybe I still end up doing that. But even if I can get the space from it and just bring, turn the dial down from the frustration a little bit, yeah.
Speaker 2:And again, slow it down, sit with it. It might not come off as whatever passive, aggressive, or it might not, and certainly I know I always go to the well here. But like with my kids, right, like yeah if I'm frustrated and I got to, I got to say something I got to, you know, correct them.
Speaker 2:I have to you know, it's like no, you don't have to do any of that. Right, those are that's probably your anxiety talking or your fear talking or one of those things like let this play out a few more seconds. If you can or you know, take 10 or leave the room, come back and if you still want to say something, say something.
Speaker 1:so I think I think in more heightened space where I want to react and maybe not respond yeah, that's where I try to use it a lot to consider is problem solving needed here, or is this a feeling to be felt?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:A moment to be experienced, and nothing is to be fixed, more to be endured. And yeah, so often it's our instinct to like any discomfort, let's fix it, and I feel that too.
Speaker 2:Let's immediately get out of it and that's why one of the things I go back to and it's actually my office on my wall I wrote on a piece of paper it's not the problems that are the problem. It's the solutions that are the problem yeah, yeah because me thinking that saying something in that moment is going to be the solution, that that's actually probably the problem. It's me not being able to sit and really try to think this through and respond in a more wise minded way.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's the solution you're looking for.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, it's like my knee jerk. Solution to a problem is that's the problem problem.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so interesting. I'm like thinking about that because I agree and I'm thinking about that and like an example, like, say, someone's like my sister invalidated me, like that maybe being the problem. So then the move is like I lashed out at her and it's like is her invalidating you a problem or is it a painful experience that maybe first you have to feel and move through instead of shut down?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think I have that up because it's not. It's more about my solutions to my own discomfort.
Speaker 1:It's not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure, if I had a sister who was invalidating, she's definitely a problem in my life. I don't have that, but like, I understand that we can view it as like yeah, they're the problem. For sure, it's like, but how am I sitting with that and how am I responding, and is there a way that I can still stay value aligned Cause a lot of times it's those like I want to get out of the discomfort those controller, escape or escape modes or whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally yeah. More internally, yeah, it's like I'm afraid to start my new job, say. Someone says it's like is the fear a problem? Maybe not.
Speaker 2:Maybe not.
Speaker 1:Maybe it's a feeling, a natural one, in a new environment that's uncertain. Maybe a part of you needs to be held and loved as you feel through that. Does a part of you need fixing or is a part of you need love and care? Just understanding and also just experience, you know. Then there's that exposure piece where it's like just run through the pain and often it feels less painful. Move through it, step through it.
Speaker 2:I think I think also like a, a gateway into thoughts of fusion is a lot of just mindfulness practices. So you know, leaves on a stream is also so yeah widely used as it can just be a soothing visualization exercise for some people. But it really is that practice of you're sitting next to a stream, you're noticing the leaves and you're putting your thoughts, any thoughts that come to your mind, you're putting them on the leaves and you're watching them go down this, the stream, and you're exposing people to the intentional practice of you are doing something with your thoughts, but you're not speeding up the stream.
Speaker 2:You're not like challenging those thoughts, you're just kind of observing them coming in. So that practice of. Can I just observe my thought processes without the the, though you might have the urge to do it, but you don't have to do anything with them yeah, yeah um. Do you want to hear the?
Speaker 1:yes, yeah, challenge yeah, the ceu.
Speaker 2:Um psychologist said I only have one thought challenge whenever anybody um you know has a thought and I was like, okay, here we go, I can't wait to hear this, this one, um, but I actually kind of liked it. His thought challenge was maybe, maybe not not.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love that so somebody's really struggling with God.
Speaker 2:I'm worthless and it's like maybe, maybe not yeah. And that was his response for every.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I remember somebody being like well isn't that like really frustrating to like the people that like are looking for an answer and he's like, yeah, but they have to tolerate, and then we just kind of like move on to other stuff like we could. We could sit here and come up with any number of thought challenges for you if that's really how you want to spend your time, right, but it's also a way, if that frustration shows itself, then we can just move on to something else, like you know, so I just thought that was interesting maybe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that, I totally like that, you know. Or even if someone's saying like I'm going to have a panic attack at me, yeah, it's like maybe you know, maybe you will maybe you won't yeah, have you ever not had one? And then you.
Speaker 2:There's a little thought challenge in that, yeah like I'm going to j and Kelly's wedding, maybe, maybe, not, it's good to challenge that thought.
Speaker 1:Good to challenge no, maybe.
Speaker 3:Maybe not One thing.
Speaker 1:I this is totally not thought diffusion related. Oh, this is a wedding related thing. I feel like the two friend tables which you're at. You're at a table with, like Lori and Matt, I'm at both friend tables no, you're at one of them, I'm splitting and sarah's at the other you're splitting us up no, um, you're with like maddie and laurie and dana and like all, that, um, it's almost like the way we have it when the speeches are given you, almost, I feel like, are like sort of looking at our backs.
Speaker 1:The two tip because you're near the band. The two friend tables okay you're front and center in a good way for most things great we're almost trying to think of, like how the the people giving speeches can kind of turn and like talk to both sides as they go. But I'm sort of bummed about that. Would that bother you? No, okay, okay that I have to turn my chair.
Speaker 2:Well, a little bit they.
Speaker 1:They will have to. It'll be on them to turn oh, no, okay, okay, no, not at all we're gonna turn and look at them, so we'll be kind of half facing you yeah okay, okay good, because I was feeling anxious about it a little bit not at all okay, good I don't think you understand how happy I'm just gonna be to be there.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's so like that's I could be in the corner somewhere, forget my dinner, like literally, I'm just gonna be happy to be there oh, I'm so happy to hear that. So please don't spend any time worrying about, for me, that type of stuff okay, okay, well good, because you'll hear the speeches.
Speaker 1:It'll be great, right, josh?
Speaker 4:yeah, you'll hear them, at least exactly even if, like you're, looking at the back of someone's head.
Speaker 2:I'm recording the whole thing. It's gonna be the episodes. I'm just gonna chop them up and then everybody, yeah, wise man, wise man the wise man happy hour that'll be my offshoot. The wise man, happy hour at your wedding.
Speaker 1:you're straight to camera. That's gonna be. That'll be my offshoot. Yeah, the wise man happy hour. Yeah, you're like solo dolo. No, you're straight to camera.
Speaker 2:That's going to be. No, I'm not worried about that.
Speaker 1:Okay, Okay good.
Speaker 2:I mean it's very conscientious of you.
Speaker 1:but I was like Don't borrow trouble. Yeah, I definitely was borrowing trouble.
Speaker 2:Don't. That's what you always say Don't say don't borrow, don't borrow trouble.
Speaker 1:Diffuse from those thoughts people should borrow trouble. Okay, well, that's another episode.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's another episode but yeah, diffuse from those thoughts.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally okay so we'll move into our how wise is a question, yeah, the question. I guess we're phrasing it as how well, maybe like almost like two options, how? Wise is it to indulge in kind of more like cheap processed candy and sweets?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:How wise is it to indulge in more fancy?
Speaker 2:Highbrow, like highbrow curated kind of like. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Haute cuisine type of sweets yes, right, desserts that are like fancy expensive, high quality Haute cuisine type of sweets right. Desserts that are like fancy expensive, high quality.
Speaker 2:It's a great question.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And the genesis of this was you all offered me candy.
Speaker 1:Yes, Josh, take it away.
Speaker 4:I offered you a chocolate fish.
Speaker 2:Yes, which I did not take, but the comparison was the fish is like gelt, which I love gelt anyone ever had gelt it's a jewish currency.
Speaker 4:Yes, if you've celebrated hanukkah, it's really cheap. Chocolate wrapped in aluminum foil and it's thin, it's delicious, it melts in your mouth kind of snaps too it's got that snap.
Speaker 2:It's so good. But then the question became like ooh yeah, how wise is it? Because then it's like cheap versus expensive, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, because we got another type of chocolate from Josh's sister, which the reason she gave it to us is because it's in the shape of a little like tinned fish, and we love tinned fish, but it's actually chocolate in there, so she kind of wanted us to display it and when we tasted it tasted kind of weird but now josh is like really coming around to it.
Speaker 4:I can't stop eating them. Yeah, we'll be watching game of thrones. I'm like when's my next?
Speaker 1:fish coming. I can't wait for this episode to end, like you're living in king's there's like three left.
Speaker 4:It's like there's so many more episodes we're on season three of game of thrones. It's like there's more than three episodes of game of thrones left. There's only three fish and I'm about to offer john one, so would you like to try one on air?
Speaker 2:no pressure I'll try one on air, yeah, let's do it, yeah, because then it morphed into so, yes, so there's the chocolate component, but then it morphed into just sweets in general. And then we got onto the donut conversation. Yes, well, because chicago was a lot of good donuts yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, chicago was a lot of good donuts and like it's kind of a a city that has a lot of like gourmet donuts.
Speaker 2:This is like john's about to try said yeah, but this is like a sardine, or is it a shrunk? Is it supposed to be like a-?
Speaker 1:It's supposed to be a sardine.
Speaker 4:Sardines.
Speaker 1:Right, they're kind of the size of sardines.
Speaker 2:I mean, it looks good, you love sardines.
Speaker 1:Josh's grandfather gives us sardines a lot because he knows I like them.
Speaker 2:This already reminds me of before I'm going to eat this, this already reminds me of around christmas time, the holidays you can get like little snowmen like this or a little now I love those or little toy soldiers like this or um like nutcrackers or whatever but this is the same kind of thickness. That's what this is already reminding well, now I really of cheap chocolate that I like.
Speaker 1:I'm on board, so it's maybe it's all psychological for me. I like it, they've gotten better over time, because I like the snowman, maybe I just love Christmas, I love Christmas.
Speaker 2:Oh, so you're attributing because you like the thin. That's what this reminds me of.
Speaker 1:I like a chocolate bunny too.
Speaker 2:But I like that. They're hollow or maybe it's that all chocolate is good.
Speaker 1:There's just differing levels yeah, how good is how good is it and is the like high quality more expensive?
Speaker 2:I mean, it's better, I don't know yeah, I don't know, I feel bad, I'm like eating in the mic, but this is really good. Thank you, I'm glad we indulged in it.
Speaker 4:It's really good sound the chewing. It's going to make everyone hungry at home.
Speaker 2:It's like ASMR or whatever. Yeah.
Speaker 4:I think it's pleasing to the ear. You know what's funny? Soothing.
Speaker 1:I almost think this question is like how wise is it if I were like a chef, a dessert chef, a pastry chef like to do these really expensive kind of complex desserts when, like, that is so delicious to you, it's satisfying, just chocolate, sugar, butter, whatever is so good it's like, is it necessary? Is it gilding the lily? Or is, like a warm chocolate chip cookie, what everybody wants at the end of the day? Yeah, I don't know. Sometimes I don't like fancy desserts, you know it's like yeah, it's sugar, it's chocolate, don't overthink it, right but, then what you're gonna hate on every everything you get for halloween.
Speaker 2:You going to eat something out of?
Speaker 3:that yeah, not all.
Speaker 2:Of that's high quality. You're not getting Ghirardellis.
Speaker 3:I don't like Ghirardellis, I know, but people will claim that it's really really good right.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Or I guess, european chocolate, that's not European.
Speaker 1:But Right, yeah, there's Whole Foods brands that are super dark chocolate, you know whatever, or those like what did I get Her hearts? Chocolate eggs.
Speaker 4:I call them eggs, but they're not eggs. Chocolate eggs Every night. You're like should we get an egg? Wait, like a Cadbury egg? No, I love those, though. Those are cheap. They're like these caramel chocolate eggs.
Speaker 2:Those things are crazy. It's got to get the filling in it.
Speaker 1:Oh, I like the. I called it a turtle.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, go get it.
Speaker 1:I was like will you get me a turtle? And you were like thanks.
Speaker 2:I do like Dove chocolate yeah.
Speaker 3:Dove is good.
Speaker 1:Smooth.
Speaker 4:Dove is good Fannie?
Speaker 1:Mae. Yeah, here's the question, to suss this out a little bit Do either of you like any kind of classic, like more complex or difficult desserts you've had at like a restaurant in chicago or somewhere else? You had an amazing baked alaska somewhere, or I don't know key lime cheesecake from joe stone oh my god.
Speaker 4:Well, that's my favorite dessert okay well, that's I mean I love the chocolate sardine shout out alex wallen. But I think if I, if I had the chocolate sardine in front of me and the key lime pie from joe's, I'd probably prefer the key lime pie yeah apples and oranges. What?
Speaker 1:if you had a piece of key lime pie and a piece of sweet mayonnaise cake which one's high, which one's low? These would both kind of be high.
Speaker 4:Yeah exactly, I'm just kind of curious, remember that night recently when we got all that free dessert at my birthday dinner from uh, was it miru? Oh, and we got every single dessert on the menu because we were. Those are pretty high-end desserts, right they were very.
Speaker 1:They were the most unusual desserts, can you?
Speaker 4:like describe them, because I suddenly can't I can't. They were I'm being a horrible really.
Speaker 3:They were almost like a trick of the mind, some of them one like, looked solid, but then it was whipped cream or it was like they were really like Harry Potter shit yeah, wasn't
Speaker 4:one like okay, one was, yeah, butterbeer one was butterbeer wasn't one um. It was like what's the? It was like mochi. It was like black black tea mochi, mochi. It was like mochi.
Speaker 3:It was like black black tea mochi mochi mochi black.
Speaker 4:It was like black tea it was some kind of like black tea mochi cake yes, okay, yes, delicious, but there was like a theatrical element to it well, they just were like.
Speaker 1:I'd never seen desserts with these like flavor combos or even that like form factor. Oh, interesting yeah they're really tasty, though almost every single one was tasty, hmm, so this really flies it was like an erotic.
Speaker 4:It was like an erotic experience which theory.
Speaker 1:It flies in the face to me I'm like I think it might not be so wise to put so much oh, and now you're thinking about it and, as you're remembering, it maybe it's pretty yeah but I love the exception to the rule because it kind of proves the rule. You're remembering it. Maybe it's pretty, but I love the exception to the rule because it kind of proves the rule and it makes that person really special, that chef Shout out.
Speaker 4:I'm the devil's advocate, as always. I always say I have a junk food palette, though I'm always like my favorite thing is McDonald's. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Do you think he calls it a gutter?
Speaker 1:palette. I've got a gutter.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I eat straight out the gutter. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think, if you're, if you, who wouldn't love an amazing dessert that somebody spent a lot of time on?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:What you just described.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Even though I can't even though I can't really picture it, it sounds great Like the way you're describing it sounds amazing. Who wouldn't love that? I think for me it's not wise to only search that out because you it just takes so much effort.
Speaker 3:Bless you, cause I are you allergic to me? It?
Speaker 2:takes. It takes so much effort, probably, to find that, and you're only setting yourself up for disappointment, whereas if you can engage in game of thrones with a fish and enjoy that, I feel like you're widening your experience too. And then when you do have the fancy ones, then you're like great like fancy ones are great too I don't know.
Speaker 4:That sounds like a josh answer.
Speaker 2:I feel like when you just go straight both but when you just go like, when you're so rigid about it's got to be kind of bougie or it's got to be a certain kind of chocolate, or you're limiting, it's limiting to me it's limiting.
Speaker 4:I also feel you're limiting.
Speaker 2:It's limiting to me, it's limiting. I also feel like I'm more when we opened it up to the donut conversation. Now that I'm thinking about it, I think again, there's really high-quality ones that are great and fantastic, and we were talking. There's ones at the bakery, at the grocery store.
Speaker 1:Oh, so good, I mean even sometimes. Even sometimes the dunkin donuts will hit the spot. Sure, I mean, they're not that bad? No, in a pinch a little munchkin yeah, it could hit a spot yeah, I used to get the valentine's one sometimes because they would have a special valentine's disgusting.
Speaker 4:Have you tried the sabrina carpenter shaken espresso?
Speaker 1:neither have I yeah, they do like to like partner with, like a tiktok store I heard someone order it and they sounded a little embarrassed it was like a 40 year old mother. Yeah, that's right. I wonder if part of writing that song was even like product placement me espresso oh, like it was all about duncan it's not even duncan donuts anymore.
Speaker 4:It's just the world. It's, duncan, it's duncan right oh right, the world runs on.
Speaker 1:They changed it well, yeah, it's like yeah, because chicago has like a bunch of good gourmet donuts do right donuts, donut, vault, beacon donuts, stands donuts, fire cakes, donuts all fancy and good, but those mariano's donuts, like how much better is it really?
Speaker 2:and it's five dollars for a dozen and it's a lot more for the yeah for the bougie ones.
Speaker 1:The bougie ones are probably five bucks a pop.
Speaker 4:I mean, it's just worth asking I think it's wise to expand your palette. Get a little of both worlds yeah, yeah, sometimes because a lot if I were to think of my favorite donut, it's the bougie. I could name my two favorite donuts I've had in the last decade. They're both bougie. But you might be more disappointed if you get a bougie one. That's not those two and it's not mind-blowing and you're like I'd rather have a crispy cream yeah, like I forgot about crispy cream yeah
Speaker 4:oh my god, yeah, crispy like there's always good assembly line shit of every variety, yeah, and then if it's niche, it's like it better be really good, and then sometimes it is yeah but it's really disappointing when you're paying more and it's like I'd rather just have a whatever wait, what's your?
Speaker 1:one of your favorite donuts is rolling donut, which we had in dublin in ireland.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's what's the other one? Do right oh yes, I forget what we got.
Speaker 3:I think we got some like maple, bacon, oh, yeah, the maple bacon yeah so good and they had like real bacon on there well, because they also do breakfast sandwiches with that tillamook cheddar. Yes, yeah, that's like a company.
Speaker 2:There's something special the pacific northwest right oh, I don't know where it's in oregon yeah, maybe I feel like it is yeah, I don't think it's like a wisconsin or vermont one no um, oh, my god, that so yeah, now that we're talking about this though,
Speaker 4:I'd rather have a hundred grand than a Toblerone.
Speaker 2:I can get on board with that I don't think I've ever had a Toblerone.
Speaker 4:Have you ever had a hundred grand?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love those.
Speaker 4:Crispy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, those are crispy, because I was thinking too, when I make when I bake chocolate chip cookies. I do like a specific chocolate chip, though I don't just Ghirardelli.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is. Is it, yeah, semi-sweet Wow?
Speaker 2:So I don't just go for like the Toll House or something like that, because you think that tastes worse. I just think. I don't think it tastes worse. Well, is there a difference? If I think the other one just tastes better, I'll still eat the cookie, yeah.
Speaker 1:If it's Toll House. But you can kind of tell. I just think it's better with a higher quality.
Speaker 2:Quote. Unquote of chocolate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, see, then there's that right, Like the quality of the inner ingredients.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:The quality of the butter, the quality of the.
Speaker 2:So if I'm going to go out of my way to make a chocolate chip cookie, I will purchase the higher quality chocolate to do it, and will you buy a bar and chop it up? No, I will buy the chocolate chips.
Speaker 1:I never do that, but all the chefs are like that's the way to do it because I guess there's stabilizers when they cut them up into chips and they get less melty or something.
Speaker 2:See, I think the hack there is that you have to just refrigerate your dough yeah because then they don't spread out as much which I was doing for years and I was like there's got to be. What am I missing here? And it was that I was putting the dough into the oven when it was already like yeah, you gotta let it yeah anyway, I could go on.
Speaker 4:Where's the wisdom here? Where is the wisdom? There is no wisdom.
Speaker 1:Maybe the wisdom is like the wisdom is to just like all chocolate, yeah, totally. It's like knowing when the splurge is actually worth it, knowing when, at the restaurant, with the prefix menu, to say no dessert for us and go get a scoop of ice cream versus have the black toasted matcha swirl, you know, whipped cream, sponge cake or whatever. You know the special.
Speaker 2:Or when you're to your point before we were recording Josh like the wisdom. Or when you're to your point before we were recording Josh like the wisdom, to be like, yeah, the only donut that's available at the gas station because I'm on a road trip is this package of powdered donuts.
Speaker 4:What are those even called?
Speaker 2:Like the hostess, the hostess one, yeah something like that, and I'm still going to enjoy it as opposed to just. Well, it's not going to be as good as do, right, well?
Speaker 1:do right, it's not available to you, yeah, so you kind of gotta let that go a little bit. God you know, the real experiment which we could do if we ever won one day, it's if you have like a little brunch, you get like an intimates cake, but you take it out, package and slice it and put it on a plate and then you go get like a fancy cake. See what people see what they like see the buzz what's the buzz?
Speaker 1:we buzz, we'll see which one If they like the low brow or the high brow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like that you're like what is the wisdom? Where's the wisdom?
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is not really a wise question. No, we're talking about food, but we just wanted to talk about it.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And that's wise. It is To bend the question a little, so we can experience joy.
Speaker 4:I think it's wise to read the menu, the dessert menu. We always get a dessert menu and we almost never get dessert. I'm not going to say almost never. I'm going to say slightly less than half the time you got to look A third of the time we'll get a dessert, but we'll always look at the menu.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you got to know what they have. You got to look.
Speaker 2:This. We'll get a dessert, but we'll always look at the menu. Yeah, you gotta know what they have. You gotta look. This was all just a ruse to get me to eat one of those?
Speaker 1:Yeah, what are those chocolate fish?
Speaker 4:I think Aren't I a sadist.
Speaker 1:We needed a third party's opinion.
Speaker 4:John, would you like another?
Speaker 2:This was like Inception, I think. I came in here and I developed this question because you all no, I'm good, but it was good, I liked it.
Speaker 1:Okay, so maybe it's just me. It's the form factor that it's a fish and I'm like it doesn't taste good. But you didn't think it tasted good at first either.
Speaker 4:It's wise to eat a chocolate fish, especially if your sister got it for you. It's aged as a present.
Speaker 3:As your sister-in-law.
Speaker 4:I think I've aged, it's gotten better. It really was delicious the other day.
Speaker 2:We'll see how I feel I'm going to have one almost immediately after this, but I think there is something I liked what you said, though, about the, because if it was the same chocolate but wrapped in something that's Christmassy, that would be an interesting experiment too, right right, because the association, like you were saying that you have with the holidays or like, yeah, it could be the exact same chocolate, but maybe you would have just view one so much better than the other.
Speaker 1:Totally but it's funny because sometimes the shape does affect the taste. Like, do you notice? Like with different reese's shapes, like you enjoy them to different degrees.
Speaker 2:People say that I'm not as big well, I just don't eat reese's enough to really um know that, but people are obsessed with saying get reese's around easter because the peanut butter is more fresh. Oh, isn't that what they say they?
Speaker 1:or I just say like if you get peanut butter in the egg well, there is that too, but they also.
Speaker 2:I feel like people have said like because they make though they don't just like, they make them fresh for the easter holiday. They make more so people enjoy them more because they're in their mind. Whether that's true or not, who knows, maybe it's been shelved for a year but fresher they're fresher.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh delish. I love reese's, but I do. I actually like the classic reese's the best, the one that's like a disc.
Speaker 2:See, I like the mini ones, but I actually think Trader Joe's has them beat.
Speaker 1:You like those more?
Speaker 3:I do Do you get the dark chocolate ones. I do like the dark chocolate ones.
Speaker 1:See, I like the milk chocolate. I don't know.
Speaker 2:I think the small Trader Joe's peanut butter ones. I like those better than the small Reese's ones. Do you freeze them?
Speaker 3:Blasphemy, I know If anybody could see Kelly's face right now she's going to kill me.
Speaker 2:Do I freeze those?
Speaker 3:No, but I do like chocolate.
Speaker 2:I like putting sometimes and Sarah got me onto this putting the chocolate chips in the refrigerator. Oh delish.
Speaker 4:Ghirardelli. Yeah, semi-sweet in the refrigerator, oh delish Ghirardelli. Oh yes, yeah, semi-sweet.
Speaker 2:That might be our cue Wait do you put the small peanut butter ones in the freezer?
Speaker 4:My shout-out Doug Blush. He used to put them in the freezer and I would raid his freezer. Love you, doug. You probably knew this. I was up until 2 in the morning editing.
Speaker 1:That's hilarious, josh's mentor yeah.
Speaker 4:One time I found a Coors Light in there that had probably been in there for two years. I was like Doug, I love you. I owe you a Coors Light, doug.
Speaker 2:Wait, doesn't a can explode in the freezer? Sorry, that was in the fridge oh got it.
Speaker 4:I'm just talking about how I would eat my boss's food and drinks that's so good.
Speaker 2:I love that though I'm sorry to talk bad about reese's kelly no it's okay.
Speaker 1:I it's okay. I think there's a part of me that's just like you know, like drank the kool-aid of like this is the only peanut butter chocolate dessert that there is. So if I taste something different, I'm like this is wrong, when really it's probably even better.
Speaker 4:I like the dark chocolate, trader Joe's.
Speaker 1:I like the dark chocolate, sea salt caramel. Yeah, same, those are great.
Speaker 3:I like everything those are good, we like it all.
Speaker 2:That's really how wise is it just be flexible? Be, flexible, be open and trying a chocolate fish. You never know what you might get and if you don't like it, that's okay too.
Speaker 1:That's why it's too if you don't like it, you don't like it, right then but I will say be open to donuts yeah, oh yeah. Donuts are on a whole nother level because they're fried so they're kind of savory and then they're so, so sweet.
Speaker 4:Is this a plug for donuts?
Speaker 1:Yes, that's my plug for today.
Speaker 2:Our new sponsor is donuts yeah.
Speaker 1:I'll plug my website.
Speaker 2:Get them fresh and also just donuts.
Speaker 1:Get them fresh.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what kind of donuts? Just donuts. We're sponsored by donuts in the world. Any kind of donut.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so good, okay. Well, that's our episode. I think Great question.
Speaker 2:That was fun to talk about. Yeah, and I got a fish out of it, you got a fish out of it.
Speaker 1:We offloaded a fish. That's great.
Speaker 2:Perfect.
Speaker 1:I'll take one to go. Yeah, yeah, totally, please do it.
Speaker 2:Okay, this is exciting because the next time we record you'll be married.
Speaker 1:Totally. We'll have to do a little debrief of the wedding on the next podcast?
Speaker 1:Yes, definitely For sure, yeah, so excited. So yeah, I'll be. I mean, if you want to reach out to me, to contact me, I will be for the next starting next week and the two weeks after that be kind of out of commission, starting next week and then the two weeks after that be kind of out of commission. But if you do want to reach out to me, you can shoot me an inquiry at my website um kkpsychotherapycom. And how are you doing?
Speaker 2:butsbutzjonathan at gmailcom email any questions. We got some people writing in with some articles for us to review, so we'll review those, uh in the upcoming episodes. And, yeah, reach out with any questions or hot takes on donuts or donuts we should try, or even chocolate fish that maybe we haven't had yet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and also I was thinking about this the other day If you like the podcast and you feel inspired to write a review, I think reviews really help us out in terms of listenership and eventually, possibly one day even having more episodes for you to enjoy. So, yeah, we're just a review, Be honest, maybe even a five star review, sure.
Speaker 4:Sure Five, four, three, two, one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, be honest.
Speaker 4:Be honest. You love us, you wise. I'd like to plug John butts. I think it's great that he's been joining us, appreciate it, it's just been a lot of fun.
Speaker 3:It's been great so fun.
Speaker 4:Um, and you can reach me at Josh bear filmscom, the website, and that's my website.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, thanks everyone. Thank you to the blanket. Oh yeah website.
Speaker 4:Yeah, okay, thanks everyone. Well, thank you to the blanket. Oh, yeah, no, thank you to blanket force for the intro and outro always. Yeah, we love you excited to see you at the wedding yes, keep on making music absolutely okay, thanks again take care bye.
Speaker 1:The wise mind happy hour podcast is for entertainment purposes only, not to be treated as medical advice. If you are struggling with your mental health, please seek medical attention or counseling.