The Wise Mind Happy Hour
Two therapists musing about the idea of an inner wise mind and how to connect with this psychic space in different contexts.
The Wise Mind Happy Hour
AI Shortcuts: How Wise Are They?
Ever considered hiring a robot to write your wedding vows? No? 🤖 How about asking Chat GPT to build you a PowerPoint for a work presentation? 🦾 The world of AI (artificial intelligence, not Alan Iverson) is a slippery slope, and therapists Kelly Kilgallon and Jon Butz have a lot to say regarding the wisdom (and lack thereof) lurking in these murky technological waters.
- music by blanket forts -
Okay, welcome to the wise mind happy hour. I'm Kelly and I'm John calling in. Yeah, yes, john is our first remote guest. Even though he's not a guest, he's a co host. Yeah, john, tell us where you are.
Speaker 2:Right now I'm driving through Roscoe village. Oh nice, heading towards, heading towards uh lakefield, which is the neighborhood that I live in oh yeah I was leaving, leaving the office, just uh doing some work. So that's where I'm not like anywhere. Uh cool in the world, it'd be better if I said something like I don't know, like fr France or something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally, I'm just, I'm just careful.
Speaker 2:No, I'm still in Chicago, just not in the studio, that's all.
Speaker 1:Okay, nice, and how was your work day?
Speaker 2:Work day was fine. Yeah, pretty much the same old, although the week is really throwing me off because Monday was a holiday, so today, yeah, so I'm like my days are all messed up because it was Memorial Day, yeah, totally, oh, my god.
Speaker 1:Well, my days are messed up because we, josh and I, are getting married this week and we took the week off.
Speaker 2:So when you said like, oh, I'm coming from work, I was like, oh, yeah, like people are working yeah, you know, like not the world, the world didn't get the memo to take off for your wedding for the whole week, but but I think that's a good idea.
Speaker 1:It's just funny, it's like man sometimes I really can get in that like egocentric place where I'm like, oh yeah, work for other people, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:The world's still churning.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the world's still churning. You're a manicurist. Yeah, they're working.
Speaker 1:They're working. Yeah, your manicurist. Yeah, they're working, they're working. Yeah, I went today, john, to get my bridal manicure, which was like two and a half hours long. I mean, I was like I couldn't believe how long I was there. It was like I had to go to the bathroom. I was there so long like I gotta get out of here but so now, are you wearing?
Speaker 2:are you wearing mittens for the next five days?
Speaker 1:yeah, I probably should have like nitrile gloves on or something like. Oh my god, I know it's funny. Well, actually I got a russian manicure which is like this new thing that's like. I mean I had it two weeks ago and not a single chip or mark happened on it. I think they like weld it to your hand. So I'm not as worried about it, having gotten this russian manicure and I have to say I think it looks great. What do you?
Speaker 3:think I'm sure it does what you're asking me, not john, because john can't see it. Yeah, I think it looks great. I think it looks great. 10 out of 10.
Speaker 1:Yeah, very shiny. Do a pic, john, or we can zoom in on the video. Yeah, um, yeah, so that I mean day half my day was a manicure, basically, as is a bride's prerogative, but how?
Speaker 3:about you, Josh. I've already forgotten what I've been doing. Oh, I finished watching Severance. I watched the season finale of the TV show Severance.
Speaker 1:Nice.
Speaker 3:It's great, I love it.
Speaker 1:Have you seen it, John?
Speaker 2:No, but people love it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, people love it. I could not get into it personally, but I respect that people love it.
Speaker 2:But, that's less interesting Is that Macaulay Culkin's brother.
Speaker 3:What did John? I cut John off.
Speaker 2:Oh no, I was just saying, was that Macaulay Culkin's brother in that show?
Speaker 1:No Succession.
Speaker 2:What show am I thinking of?
Speaker 1:Oh, Succession, that's what I'm thinking of. Yes, I love Succession. Severance is more like dystopian.
Speaker 3:Oh, okay, there's a lot of hallways.
Speaker 1:It's like what's the main actor's name?
Speaker 3:Adam Scott.
Speaker 1:Adam Scott.
Speaker 2:Oh, he's, great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he is great.
Speaker 3:He kind of looks like a shrunken Tom Cruise. Yeah, especially on that show.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like a shrunken Tom Cruise, yeah, especially on that show. Yeah, like a pointier Tom Cruise, yeah.
Speaker 3:That's really funny. John Turturro's on it, christopher Walken.
Speaker 1:Ben Stiller directed it A bunch of it.
Speaker 3:He wrote, or he at least directed, both season finales and many of the episodes. Yeah, dan Erickson is the wrote, I think most of them he's involved. He's heavily involved.
Speaker 1:You know what it's actually making me think we could one day take the premise of that show and consider it for an episode. Because basically the premise I don't know if you know this, john is like some people choose to like sever their work self from their rest of their life self. So when they're outside of work they can't think about work and they don't know that self in that world. And then when they're at work they only think about work. They don't ever have an outside life.
Speaker 2:Like. They literally like. This is like science fiction. They literally can't think of work.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's science fiction. They like sever the brain.
Speaker 2:They're like two different people, yeah interesting it's pretty interesting I think that would be hard for a lot of people to completely. I think it's a great concept to completely sever yeah work from you know your day-to-day life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally, and you could see how, like you know, some kind of like corporate business owner would like want their staff. I mean, I've worked in places where it's like they probably want the staff to have no personal life, you know.
Speaker 2:Sure, but I wonder if it's also like is that because we're, you know, doing therapy with people, does that mean, yeah, like our we, we can set, we sever our brain so we still like conceptualize things or can conceptualize things as a therapist outside of the therapy space. We just can't think about our experiences from work yeah, oh god.
Speaker 1:It would be so interesting to think about severing as a therapist, because being so much of your life experience is essential to your being a good therapist, Right? Wow, it would only I guess it would only be your like by the book training. Well, actually this kind of gets into our topic, which we'll get to in a bit. You know, like AI, AI, shortcuts we're going to talk about you know, obviously I think we've touched a little bit on AI therapy.
Speaker 1:But yeah, obviously an AI doesn't have like real life experience. Maybe you'd have to regurgitate like real life experience. Maybe you'd have to regurgitate, you know, like a CBT manual or you know some kind of training, and none of it would be based on like the spirit that you hold.
Speaker 2:Because then you couldn't call on like oh yeah, it was like that time six months ago when I was working with this patient and this and that, like you watch you know you watch a movie outside of work, and then you're like, you're like, oh, that reminds me of this, but you can do that because you're outside of work exactly.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, it's a great show yeah, josh loves it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it has more. It has more to do with the corporate yes, it's like I think it's basically people.
Speaker 1:I mean, I've only seen a few episodes, but I think it's like basically the people at a specific company do this.
Speaker 3:So it gets into that a bit, but yeah, I did have one pretty fun anecdote from today that I didn't mention that's a lot more interesting than severance.
Speaker 3:What fitted? And the person working there, who I guess is the manager that has been working there for quote unquote. According to the person, the younger person helping me out, longer than she's been alive. She's been working at a uh, men's warehouse, but she was very alarmed, um, by my, I guess like size change over the last two months and she she like right in front of me, asked the person who was helping me out. She was like is, um, when were these measurements taken? And she like whispers into her ear. I think it was like two months ago and she's like he's changed drastically.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean absolutely body shaming, you Like hold on.
Speaker 3:That's not really even making eye contact with me, Meanwhile. I'm like sitting right there.
Speaker 1:I mean I. When Josh told me this John, my, I, my blood was boiling. I was like I will go in there and burn that place to the ground, like how dare they say yeah, I mean I will. There will be something, I will write a review or I will talk face to face with them and I'll say like how dare you? Even if she what she meant to do was criticize her staff because she thought they took wrong measurements, it's like it doesn't matter. That behavior is an inexcusable behavior.
Speaker 2:What do you think?
Speaker 1:John.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I mean, the word drastic is pretty intense, but yeah, I mean, I think it's more about uh right, about uh right. Oh, okay, we'll just make some adjustments and kind of leave it at that yeah exactly glad you came in. We'll just make a few more. You know we'll make a few things here and there and we'll come back in a day or two and pick it up and just leave it at that well, and this is a journey you've been on, yeah when like.
Speaker 1:Your body is a little different. You're a little thicker.
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:And more muscular.
Speaker 3:Sure sure, yeah, my body's changed drastically and I misspelled the title of the episode.
Speaker 1:No, I mean stop no.
Speaker 3:I just think and I'm about to get married.
Speaker 1:Come on, I think you know like they should not be making a comment on that at all and using any kind of word like a drastic yeah well, they had to to some extent just for the sake of business, but drastic felt um, um extreme yeah, yeah, that feels.
Speaker 3:That feels like a little much yeah, but you know it's a funny story and we move on to ai.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, no, I mean. Well, I think what you said to me afterward was you actually felt like, because it was so extreme, you went through a very quick process of kind of radically accepting like this is my body yeah, yeah yeah, I haven't been fretting about it on a day-to-day basis.
Speaker 3:I think I was when, like suddenly all my pants didn't fit. But then that happened and like I look in the mirror, I ate my cereal at night and I'm happy.
Speaker 1:I think bodies change Like we go through like seasons and I think there has to be room for that. And people you know, I don't want to like make everything trigger warning Like, but I think people who are like extremely critical. I want to give those people feedback yeah on behalf of, like the whole world, my clients that I work with it on body image stuff. It's like the world can be so judgmental, especially around anything.
Speaker 3:Wedding right, you know, how dare you change your body like drastically two months before your wedding? How dare you?
Speaker 2:yeah yeah, I think there's also. Just it sounds like this person was um of a generation because they've been working there a long time, right?
Speaker 3:totally yes, you're so right she was an older, like jewish woman.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I feel like sometimes there's also like I notice that more or that just hasn't caught up with maybe some of the older generations, of like, and whether it's positive comments or just commenting on bodies in general just seems to that maybe hasn't caught up with Again, as an anecdotal, but just kind of like this hasn't caught up with certain generations that maybe we should curb commenting on bodies, whether it's good or bad, right, just like. Maybe just kind of leave it a little bit yeah, totally, I know you're right.
Speaker 1:I think it's like it's so much more like familiar in our generation and below I think millennials and younger like that's really the more like. Oh yeah, you don't really need to to like objectify in either direction, you just don't need right, make that right, yeah, yeah I'm laughing because drastic is technically a neutral term but you know the suggestion yeah, yeah sorry I cut john off again.
Speaker 2:Our chemistry is off, I think, without the visual cue of you on the couch no, I'm getting bold, like growing, growing up and just kind of like the programming you receive, at least when I grow up, like in certain kind of like body types of what they should look like as somebody who's a male. And like growing up and you should be muscular, look a certain way and like people would always like say to me oh, you're so skinny, as if it were a compliment, but that actually, like was kind of harmful to me because it was like oh, I like can't, I can't put on muscle, I can't put on and I'm supposed to look like something.
Speaker 2:So there was, you know, I I think there's not as much thought into oh, but you know, there's certain like general views of like bodies, of like, well, skinny is good, or at least back then skinny was good. And so it was like saying to somebody oh, you're so skinny, people think that that's not harmful. But it's also like to me, in my experience it was kind of like, well, I don't, I'm not choosing to be this skinny, it's just kind of like the way my body is. And if you look at like the way society views it, like for men maybe, or you know, young adults, men coming up of age, like you should be putting on muscle or something, and so there was a lot of like for me. There was self-consciousness about like my skinniness.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, for me there was self-consciousness about, like, my skinniness, yeah, yeah. Well, it's like there's not that. This is not that this is a body image episode, but just kind of that idea of like certain generations feel like that maybe is a compliment and it's like, but there's actually some damage that can be done there as well.
Speaker 1:Totally, totally. I mean. It's like it's all damaging, even the compliments.
Speaker 1:I find are damaging. Like I work with a lot of women, some men too, on body image stuff, more and more men really. But you know, like I remember I had a teen once and you know their parents really couldn't believe that they were struggling. And you know I really just said, like a lot of kids that are like complimented a lot for their looks, you know they come to value themselves for them and it's like our looks change, like things change. Even what's like trendy with bodies changes a bit and it's like no one's ever going to be in this like perfect category.
Speaker 1:And if you really train someone to value themselves for that, amongst other, like you know social conditions that they face or attachment environments they're and you know it can be I think it can be harmful either way. Like any kind of devaluing yourself or your body or valuing yourself or your body is. I think it's a really tough road and I think the best is to help people transcend identifying with the body. So I hope that for you, josh, on our wedding day. You know, and you look so handsome in your tux I've seen you in it.
Speaker 3:I'm going to transcend my body on our wedding day and become a force field of plasma.
Speaker 1:Totally.
Speaker 2:That'd be great. I can't wait to see it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I know I'm doing it for you, john but totally that'll be great.
Speaker 2:I can't wait to see it. Yeah, I know I'm doing it for you, john, but also for kelly.
Speaker 3:I can't wait to see the talks, the talks and the plan. I aim to please. So yeah, I just thought that would be ripe fodder. It kind of like it wasn't even that upsetting to me. It was just kind of it was more interesting than the season finale of severance uh, which was great, highly recommend. If you like sci-fi, if you like suits, don't go to Men's Warehouse on Clybourne.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if you like, your pride in your sex.
Speaker 3:Yeah, then just watch Severance. It's a great show.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's really funny.
Speaker 1:But yeah, that's what's going on here, what's going on lately with you, John and the fam.
Speaker 2:Well, we got back. We went to Philly for Sarah's grandpa's birthday party, which was great.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was a great trip. It was quick, but the party was excellent and Mel was in great spirits and it was a really really fun time.
Speaker 1:Oh wow, I'm so glad it went well. That's amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Nice. How was the weather in Philly?
Speaker 2:It was cold. Yeah, I didn't stop the kids from putting on their bathing suits and going into the pool, because they're just warm-blooded and they don't care. Yeah, so they still did that. I mean, you know it was like 60, but they still did it, so they had a blast doing that. There was no way I was going to do that.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, being cold is one of my least favorite experiences. Cold and wet, cold and wet yeah, it's like that's torture.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally, wow, wow, you're so warm. Calling back to previous episodes no, you know, uh, we all, we did all carry-ons, no check bags wow, okay and I have an axe to grind, because I looked at, uh, our last episode. I haven't listened to it yet, but they spelt diffusion wrong oh, do they. Description d-e-f and I spelt d-i-f oh yes.
Speaker 1:So I said when it comes did you spell it wrong?
Speaker 2:I must have, I thought I thought the ai did the description doesn't the ai do all the ai does it.
Speaker 1:It's funny because we use ai for the pod and then I kind of copy and paste sometimes so it probably wasn't right in the title of the episode. Well, here's what it is Diffusion with two F's there is. That's a bit more of like a CBT concept. I think Diffuse versus like to unfuse from something.
Speaker 3:Oh my God, oh OK, that's my mistake.
Speaker 2:From an act. That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 1:Saying it's a very act centric thing. I think diffusion is most often spelled like diffuse yeah yeah, because, like if you, if you know that concept diffusion of responsibility, which is like if someone falls and has a heart attack, it's like and there's nine people around, like no one calls the police. Because there's like this diffusion of responsibility it's like disperses among all the people there, whereas the what we're talking about is, yeah, it's like you unhook from something unfeud right.
Speaker 3:I think both almost make sense in tandem, because if you unfuse it almost feels like your thoughts are like scattering and because yeah, diffuse, yeah, I suppose less concentrated and kind of like in your face yeah, so I never questioned it, but now I feel like an idiot no, you're not an idiot, I definitely. We're keeping this on the pod. By the way, it's been out there for a week with the wrong title. I'm going public saying this. This was my fault and this will not be edited out.
Speaker 2:Listen what this comes down to is obviously I should not be directing my anger at AI. I should be directing it at you, Josh.
Speaker 3:Exactly, it's always at me.
Speaker 2:Always at you. No, I was just like oh, the AI, just which makes sense. The. Ai just felt it that way and I was like I'll just bring that up on the podcast just to clean it up a little bit. From an act perspective that it's usually spelled D-E-F-U.
Speaker 1:Yes, little bit that from an act perspective, that it's usually spelled d-e-f-u. Yes, that's i-o-n. Well, honestly, this is truly the perfect segue. Basically, our topic today is is it wise to use ai shortcuts? So, basically, like this is kind of broad but, but you know, like any kind of artificial intelligence tool to help you do various tasks. Part of this, partially, this came to mind because of like my aunt actually recommended when I was talking about writing my vows and like writing a thank you speech for the wedding. She's like, oh, you could just use AI. And I was like, oh, I was like that would be probably the last thing I would ever use AI for, because the point of it is to be like heartfelt and personal, you know, like me as my unique human spirit, like thanking the people around me, expressing my love for Josh for Josh, I guess, but I understand someone might use it as an aid rather than like AI writes your whole speech. But yeah, kind of like brought up this question. So I'm curious John, do you use any AI shortcuts?
Speaker 2:Very rarely I think I've used it, and I actually got the idea from the fellowship that I'm in right now, the ACT fellowship. Somebody had mentioned one of the PowerPoints that they shared with us. They were like, oh yeah, ai helps kind of generate some of these things for me, just because it was quick and easy. And then I edited it and I was like, oh, I was like that's interesting and easy. And then I edited it and I was like, oh, I was like that's interesting. And then when I was doing a presentation, um, I was like I wonder what it would give me. So I just, you know, used AI to just kind of say, if I was presenting on this topic, what would it look like? Like a 12 page powerpoint or something like that. And I think it gives you a framework and it obviously generated it very quickly. So I think it was, it can be useful to give you like a framework. Again, I haven't used it that much, but that's kind of the only you know to look things up to just quickly, like get answers, or I think one time I looked up, my friend told me to look up like a business proposal. He was like just type it in chat, gpt or something like that. Um, and it'll give you the nuts and bolts of it. So I think it can be useful.
Speaker 2:I don't think I use it enough, though, to know how in depth it goes. I think it's interesting to think about more. What's the word I'm looking for? Like, like, yeah, like emotive things I think that's an interesting thing like a vow writing to use AI for versus oh, I'm developing a PowerPoint about this or something that's a little bit more concrete, less emotional. I hadn't really thought about it in terms of yeah, like, how do I, how do I write a love letter? Ai.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right it's like that type of thing.
Speaker 1:Right, but I like the point you're bringing up right Of like. Maybe there's more wisdom in using it for structural, like framework intentions rather than like content, especially with something.
Speaker 2:And I think it's efficient. I mean it certainly will quickly give you something to work with immediately yeah, so there's like an efficiency aspect of it. Um, yeah, yeah, the vows that the vows things wild that's.
Speaker 1:I, I might agree. I'm like milling it, mulling it over, you know, because, because, because obviously, like the biggest place we probably use it, kind of all three of us in a way, is with the podcast. We have AI generate our descriptions of the episodes. Ai listens to the episode and then kind of summarizes it, and then Josh goes in and edits it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'll often add things. I'll often. Often the entire description will be something I come up with. Also, sometimes I'll use the AI mainly as like. It'll basically give me a summary, like four long paragraphs, of kind of everything that gets talked about, and then sometimes I'll come up with one or two sentences that are completely original sentences, but it helps spark my memory of what was discussed Other times. If I'm feeling I don't know less inspired or more lazy, I'll copy and paste like two of the sentences and really do very little to them, maybe switch a couple of the words so it sounds more like our voice and, you know, post it to spotify and apple podcast.
Speaker 3:So yeah I'm not really dictating if it's wise or not, but that's been our workflow. Yeah, a little behind, did you?
Speaker 2:actually did you actually look? Did you type into ai write wedding vows and see what it came up with?
Speaker 1:so I did. I guess maybe I did this almost unintentionally because I was like I I looked up like samples, or I think I looked up like outline for wedding vows, because I more did want structure, which I've done before before. Like ai, I would have googled that you know like, or it's like examples, or on reddit people will post theirs and and it's like oh, I like how this flowed. You start with this and then you do that, and then you make these promises and then you do whatever, and it's like you can take or leave whatever resonates. But for the structure I liked that. So I guess in a way, I did for the outline. Look at it.
Speaker 1:I'm thinking now that we're talking about this. I think the question for me and maybe if I thought about this more, I would amend this a little bit but I wonder if the question to ask myself is is using AI to do this like robbing this thing of its essence in some way right? Like, if I'm using AI to write a love letter, is it robbing me of something essential in the experience or the other person of something essential in the experience? And I think for me, with a love letter, the answer would be yes, because the point is to express my unique, authentic feelings for the other person, and that's where the thread of connection to myself is, and thus the connection to the other person is like noticing and expressing my own real feelings.
Speaker 2:What do you guys think? Yeah, I mean, I think it it well, I think it goes back to process versus outcome. Probably the ai would give you the outcome, some form of it, right, but it might take you out of a deeper, though more difficult and arduous process, because you might have writer's block or you might be uncovering things in a love letter that you're judging yourself for, I don't know, versus the ai just kind of spits it out and then you're like oh, I like that, I'll cross off that word or I'll take that sentence and I'll, you know, copy and paste. So something, yeah, maybe some of the processes, what's, I don't know, diluted, or it's not as deep, it might not be as meaningful or deep.
Speaker 1:Yeah, possibly Like cause to me with the podcast. Podcast if we like are you and me are the hosts and josh is the editor and we're we're talking from our own like hearts about each topic, which we are. If we let ai listen to us do that and summarize it, I don't feel in my experience it's not stealing the essence of the podcast. Could we write a more precise, moving summary? Probably, but I don't know that that's so essential. I think the podcast itself and our voices is the most important thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. I think sometimes the AI description lacks the humor in the episodes yeah, which I try to add in sometimes, but sometimes I don't, sometimes I'm busy or I can't think of anything funnier. I feel like I'm forcing it, like, if it doesn't come to me immediately, I kind of will use what the AI generated.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And other times I kind of am use what the ai generated, yeah, yeah. And other times I kind of I'm like, oh, this would be like a more fun way to say this yeah, yeah I.
Speaker 2:I think the descriptions are are.
Speaker 2:I don't know if I could write a better description yeah, honestly honest like I mean some of them, some of them, because we kind of go in a lot of different areas. I. I think it would be hard for me, just the way my mind works, to be like oh, how do I encapsulate some of go in a lot of different areas? I think it would be hard for me, just the way my mind works, to be like Ooh, how do I encapsulate some of that in a short four sentences. And I think the AI does a nice job of covering a few different things. Um, I think it's just so early in the game of of having AI so accessible to all of us too. It's hard to parse out for me how. One, I haven't used it enough. But two, like what, what? Like, what's the wisdom? Or where does the wisdom lie with it? I think I would need to use it more and do some trial and error with it.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, it's such an open question, I think, for the world, like, because I think there's a lot of like ethicists out there who say, like it is incredibly dangerous to have no regulation on it, you know, but where does regulation come from? It comes from the government. That that doesn't look like it's coming anytime soon, you know, on anything that's like business, you know, corporate related, um, so, yeah, I think it is a really open question and obviously AI, um, you know, is like gaining traction in the therapy world. There's like AI therapists. People will like, if they're struggling with something you know, ask chat, gpt, um, and yeah, it's like and as you I think you had texted me this, john that it has been shown to be like helpful with depression, and I'm sure that it is, and also is, you know, a CBT workbook is often helpful for people.
Speaker 1:Obviously, a walk down the street can be helpful. There's so many things that can help people's like mental state and well-being. Is it a replacement for a person-to-person therapeutic relationship? I don't believe so, but I know I'm sure there's people who do believe that it is, and I guess we have to like, you know, like brace for impact and see, see what comes of it.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, yeah that's a whole another realm of the idea of like really relating to artificial intelligence as like a being, versus something to just like get an answer from. Because if I guess, if you're really thinking about the therapy of it, like, if it moves in the direction of like oh yeah, my therapist is AI Like that's like a whole, like relational, I don't know, that's really interesting Versus using it to be like I'm struggling with a panic attack. You type something in chat, gbt, and it gives you deep breathing exercises. It gives you you exercises.
Speaker 2:It gives you you know like you give you some things that would probably be useful in that moment is it? Is it a therapist? No, it'd probably be like any other search engine that would give you some things, but that idea of it being like replacement for therapy, that that seems a little far off and and actually being in the room with somebody. But who knows, I don know, maybe our jobs are at risk.
Speaker 1:I know, maybe we, maybe we got to start sending in some. How do you?
Speaker 2:know how do you know you're actually talking to me right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know, I'm really just talking to the robot that is your phone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you don't know who is. This could be my AI generated replacement.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you know, sometimes I think like in terms of that, like, like, and we're like in a tangential territory to like is it wise to use these shortcuts? But it's like, I bet you, when like TV and movies and stuff became big, it's like are they going to totally replace books and it's like, no, you know, like, are people gonna like watch it on TV?
Speaker 1:Yeah, but, it's like there'll always be things that are valuable and, like I don't know, I do have faith in like what's true will remain Like what's what. What's true will remain Like what's what. What's the word? Like what's like have faith in everything. We'll have faith in what's what's pure, you know, and I just really, I personally believe in the therapeutic relationship and I think many people will jump ship to something ai, but I don't think everyone will you know what my mind immediately jumped to, and you brought up that example of like books being replaced, it was, for some reason, travel agents yeah, it's like oh my god like technology has completely ruined that industry probably yeah, or it's like who uses a travel agent anymore.
Speaker 1:I know, I think a ton.
Speaker 2:The technology just completely replaced. Like you don't go to somebody to, well, maybe not many people go there, they probably still exist, but that's probably been gouged that industry.
Speaker 1:I know, I know I've heard of some people using them still, but I was kind of like cleaning my ears out when they said that, like what they still exist, are these?
Speaker 3:people super wealthy.
Speaker 1:No, this person wasn't.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:I'm sure wealthy people might have some kind of concierge that does that type stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But honestly, if you're wealthy, you need that stuff less because it's like you kind of need the travel agent to be savvy. You know, anybody can just like google the best, whatever and like sign up right, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like you need the one who's like here's one that's good, but not the most expensive but you can find all that online too, it's true yeah, josh, I'm wondering if you have ever used ai to generate, because you're such a a music buff, like have you used it to find new artists or compile like a playlist, or have you used any of the music like ai type stuff?
Speaker 3:no, I well, okay, I would say barely. Sometimes Spotify will give you suggestions if you have a playlist going of songs to add, and sometimes it'll be so in the wheelhouse and it'll be a song I hadn't thought of and I'll be like, oh, that would fit great on this playlist and I'll add it in. But I really like to make my own playlists and in terms of finding music, I pretty much just have two websites I look at religiously pitchforkcom and album of the yearcom, which is like an amalgamator of every not probably not literally every album that comes out every week, but a lot with like a, you know, a compilation of like an aggregate of user scores and critic scores and all these reviews, and I kind of just listen to a lot of stuff every week and I I do get off on sifting through all of it and finding what's the best, but yeah, I I would say I rarely use ai in my music hunting.
Speaker 2:That process is yeah, so you, it's wise for you not to use it, because it would take something out of the process.
Speaker 3:But it's something I love and I guess, like I guess what I'm thinking, because you know, kelly, you would maybe never want AI to help you write a love letter because you're an emotional person. You like to write. You like to express your emotions. I love to find music. All three of us, kind of, are like emotionally oriented people who are at least somewhat creative. Like so what if you're someone who has no interest in writing? Isn't really like emotional, Would it be unwise to? But then should you do you have any.
Speaker 1:Should you be writing a love letter? Should you?
Speaker 3:be writing a love letter.
Speaker 1:Is that authentic? I?
Speaker 3:would argue no. But are we biased? Because we're like, like, if I used AI to like be? Here's something I will use AI for like audio stuff when I'm editing. If, like a voice, someone's voice, like if the audio sounds shitty, there's like a big hiss over it or it's crackly, I will use ai to make it crisper and sound more clean. And then I'll go in and like toggle a bunch of little you know levers within premiere to make it try to sound like a human voice. But because I'm not an audio guy and I could spend a year or two like being really good at audio stuff. But if ai does such a good job like I, to me that's not creative yeah but I'm biased because I'm a creative person.
Speaker 3:So I'm like oh well, it's wise to use AI to do, like, things that aren't really creative and it's unwise to use it to do things that are creative.
Speaker 1:I wonder if I'm biased or if I'm just like and maybe a value, a big value, a primary value of yours is creativity. So maybe that comes into the question like is it taking you away from your?
Speaker 2:values to utilize AI in this endeavor or that endeavor. What I see I think I see your point, josh and the idea of maybe somebody that struggles to emote. If they were to use AI to, for this example, write a love letter, they'd be like yes, that is what I feel and I needed something to generate the words for me which everybody's had, that experience from a book or a song or a lyric where they're like yes, that's exactly how I feel, so maybe, maybe it would be wise in the sense of generating language for someone who that just is not as accessible for them.
Speaker 3:In that example, maybe, and could that same person think oh well, I would never use ai to help me build a house because that's so much fun.
Speaker 2:Like if I used ai for that, it would take all the fun out of it right right, I none of the three of us would ever have that thought no, but like something, like yeah or like I would never use ai to like clean up sound, because I like love going in and like doing it from scratch and that gives me so much joy.
Speaker 3:For me, I'm like oh my god, thank god this thing exists, that like allows me to get good sounding audio where I can like click a button and it just sounds good yeah I wish I could click a button build a house yeah I don't want to build a house yeah, well it's I.
Speaker 1:I stand by my thought of, like, if it robs you of the essence of the thing or takes you from your values, I think it's unwise. And that that does also beg the question of the more meta ethics meta pun intended the meta ethics of using it, because it's pretty detrimental to the environment to use AI and you know, also for, like, the wealth gap, job market, it's a tricky thing that not a lot of people are so concerned with addressing as it gains, like, more and more traction and control and it's bad for the environment just because it takes so much energy to power ai yeah, yeah, like, it's like a lot
Speaker 3:of electricity, a lot of water. Yeah, can you do you understand it fully, because I feel like I always pretend to understand.
Speaker 1:I just know that it uses a lot of water. It uses a lot of water.
Speaker 3:Yeah, ai, yeah, and we need water.
Speaker 1:Chat GPT or like yeah, chat GPT.
Speaker 3:Remember there was that article that was like it's a wet technology, it was like what did they say?
Speaker 1:Like, what do they say? Like people's politeness to AI has used like some insane amount of energy waste by being like thank you All the words that were like polite.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow, treat it more like a robot. Well, I mean, if you're concerned about the environment, so I think, like using it thoughtfully can be wise, both on the micro level and the macro level.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think it can be used, like I mentioned earlier, as like a framework or a starting point for a lot of things that maybe we're lost on or feel like we don't have an idea of where to start. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how it continues to unfold totally yeah, and we'll be covering it minute by minute.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'll make a second podcast, just like coming to you live from wise AI AI hour artificial intelligence happy hour. Yeah, um, okay, well, maybe that's our, that's our ending point.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm done.
Speaker 2:It's crazy that we're ending because you guys are getting married.
Speaker 1:Yes, I know, the next time we see you will be Fridayiday at a wedding or saturday, saturday saturday oh my god, saturday, so excited to celebrate with you and everyone all our listeners can't wait to be there, can't wait to live stream it to everybody, yes, live. Stream it away. Totally, I love it. Um, we're so, so, so excited to celebrate with you.
Speaker 2:I know me too. We're we're really really happy for you all and yeah, it's going to be a great event.
Speaker 1:I can't wait to be there.
Speaker 3:Thank you, john, it's been great getting to know you in the in the midst of our wedding planning.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wedding planning, yeah, totally for sure, and your family.
Speaker 2:I finally get to meet some of kelly's family. Now, that's true.
Speaker 1:Now you can meet my family and they're like dying to meet you. They really are you're famous yeah, and we'll do a little debrief for the listeners of the pod about the wedding um yeah, and a pre-brief, and I'm gonna do a little pre-brief um my trying to be wise in the process of going into my wedding. I'm going to do a solo app.
Speaker 2:Yes, definitely.
Speaker 1:So yeah, but for today we'll stop there. Thanks everyone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks for listening everybody. You can always email us or email me at buttsbuttzjonathan at gmailcom.
Speaker 1:Yes, and you can find me at kkpsychotherapycom If you want to work with me or just contact me. You can find me at KK psychotherapycom If you want to work with me or just contact me you can send me an inquiry there.
Speaker 3:You can find me at Josh Bayer filmscom. Bayer, like the aspirin, I'll edit and film all of your content from now on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we want to thank blanket forts for the intro.
Speaker 3:Yes, as always, see you in a couple of days.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and John want to thank blanket forts for the intro yes, as always.
Speaker 2:See you in a couple of days, yeah, and.
Speaker 1:John gets blanket. Yeah, you will.
Speaker 2:I know I can't wait. Yeah, a couple of days.
Speaker 1:Okay, take care. Thanks everyone. Party. The wise mind Happy hour podcast is for entertainment purposes only, not to be treated as medical advice. If you are struggling with your mental health, please seek medical attention or counseling.